Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: BaldEagl on May 30, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
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I'e been flying this plane a lot just lately and really love it. Any good tips from those more familiar with it?
So far I've mostly been starting high, diving on opponents and zoom climbing back up to maintain E. I chased a Ki-84 back to his base this way last night then killed a Spit.
I've had a chance to get it slow against a Typhoon. Ultimately I chased him back to his base too but before I did I found the P-40 could hang on the prop at about 0 mph then fall off under complete control. I'll find a way to use that sometime.
I haven't tried deploying flaps yet as, as I said, I've been trying to hold E for the most part.
I really thought I'd be a con magnet but instead I've found enemies either leave me alone, leave or try to HO me. Maybe people are just wary when they see a P-40?
Anyway, tips are welcome.
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Really only need about 10-12k of alt to do mac damage. The planes flaps can go out at a pretty fast speed. I noticed that La7's were quite easy to beat I a rolling and flat scissors wit the flaps fully extended
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i converged all guns tom 300 they seen to hit a little harder
i also fly her from 10 to 15k
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Any decent Ki-84, Typhoon or La-7 driver should eat a P-40B for lunch. The E building potential of those fighters is just so far beyond what the P-40B can do that even starting from a large deficit they should quickly equalize and them exceed the E of the P-40B.
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Any decent Ki-84, Typhoon or La-7 driver should eat a P-40B for lunch. The E building potential of those fighters is just so far beyond what the P-40B can do that even starting from a large deficit they should quickly equalize and them exceed the E of the P-40B.
Yes but take the less then average ma stick and it sees a p40 and the p40 knows what he is doing and those planes u described will be easy, they will blow all there E to get a "easy" p40 kill
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P-40s are fun birds to fly.
My only suggestion... don't fly in front of bullits.
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The P40's are one of those birds that NEED to be flown inside their invelope. Meaning, they need room and a bit of speed.
There is no fighter more difficult to succeed in than the P40B. Some of the "name in lights" guys would get my respect if they landed kills in a P40B. The old saing "fear the plyer not the plane" saying goes right out the window when the best of the best hop into a P40B.
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double post, sorry
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Any decent Ki-84, Typhoon or La-7 driver should eat a P-40B for lunch. The E building potential of those fighters is just so far beyond what the P-40B can do that even starting from a large deficit they should quickly equalize and them exceed the E of the P-40B.
Agree about the Lala or the Ki, but the Typhoon is so unmaneuverable I can easily see a decent stick in P40 forcing it to run, HO, or die.
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Agree about the Lala or the Ki, but the Typhoon is so unmaneuverable I can easily see a decent stick in P40 forcing it to run, HO, or die.
Remember, he's talking P-40B. There's a world of difference between the -B and the -E.
- oldman
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P-40B in the LWA is an exercise. It's not really fun... It's totally outclassed by all (remember the P-40 doesn't exactly have a tight turn radius, you can't fly it like you might a 109e or a hurr1 and sucker folks into a turn fight!).
The hardest part isn't getting a kill -- that's up to your skills I suppose -- the hardest part is EGRESSING with your kills. You're so slow that folks can and will reup and chase you down ad nauseum. Had that happen to me in FT once. Killed a couple folks, and before I could get OUT of FT, he kept chasing me down. Ran into him 2 more times before a friendly knocked him down and I could land safely.
Definitely need a friendly around here or there. Flying this plane is about minimizing your detriments, rather than flying to your attributes.
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Love the P40B. It turns relatively well, despite what Krusty says. What I find works the best is how easy it is making other planes overshoot. I fly it slow and otd, so everything trying to get you has too much speed and expects an easy kill. Then they reup and you get more easy kills :aok
Agreed though, landing is tough because it doesn't have the speed to get away from re uppers
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If you have E it will turn as it bleeds that E off. Once gone you're wallowing.
It's turn radius is rather poor, and generally anything other than US planes will out turn it, except for that initial E-bleeding-turn.
That's the trick, IMO... Keeping enough E in store to finish the fight before you wallow and slow down. You may say "same for every fight!" but in the case of the P-40B I'd argue "Yeah, only this one doesn't recharge -- just diminishes as the fight goes on" :lol
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Remember, he's talking P-40B. There's a world of difference between the -B and the -E.
- oldman
And the average player in the MA has almost 0 chance of killing *anything* that turns decidedly better, except by pick or HO. Getting a kill shot from behind the wing-line with pure E tactics is a difficult and requires refinement.
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Well I landed a 4 kill sortie in it last night or the night before although three of them were B-24's. The other was a Jug.
This plane is soooo fun to drop in on the six of a con in. I particularily like doing that to Jugs and Ponies. They overreact almost every time and blow their E. I've been in fights with a lot of different planes now including Spits, Ki's, Jugs, Ponies, P-38's, N1K's, 109's and more and this plane does much much better than I envisioned that it would. It actually turns pretty well but you really need to use barrel rolls and vertical oblique turns to maintain E while reducing overall turn radius. Still waiting for another chance to use that hang on the prop thing. About the only thing I don't like is that it's painfully slow to climb or to get anywhere.
My biggest problem so far has been avoiding my own mistakes; collisions, trees, poor SA, etc. I think I'll eventually get it.
Any more tips I'm all ears.
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My problems with the P-40s are the speeds and woeful flaps.
First, both the P-40B (probably modeled on the Tomahawk IIB), is slower than it should be. The P-40B could easily manage 350 mph. Ours only manages 313 mph at 10k, whereas factory test data shows 336 mph at 10k. Max speed is only 334 mph at 15k. Again, that's even slower than the Tomahawk IIB (340-345 mph), but lacks the external fuel mount hardware of the Tomahawk.
The P-40E is an odd duck. P-40Es didn't have WEP, but ours does. Max speed for the P-40E varied slightly with different tests, but we should see speeds between 355 mph and 360 mph. Our P-40E, even with WEP, can't do better than 346 mph at 12k using WEP.
As to maneuverability, the P-40B is a very good turning fighter. That is, until you get slow where flaps may be needed. At that point, it wallows like a herniated whale. For both the P-40s, the flaps are useless beyond one notch. Use full flaps and you suffer a huge penalty in turn rate, that cannot overcome the modest decrease in turn radius. Likewise for the P-40E. Both have nasty departure characteristics.
You can have fun in either type, but I have been disappointed in both since their introduction to the game.
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^^^ THIS OH MAN HTC THIS!!!^^^
Along with updating the graphics of some of the older models "super stoked btw htc and company,ty ty ty" any A/C still in the game that is a "hybrid" should be updated.
If it doesn't act how it should, then it is not what it is. :salute "and everyone loves more version's of any a/c"
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First, both the P-40B (probably modeled on the Tomahawk IIB), is slower than it should be. The P-40B could easily manage 350 mph. Ours only manages 313 mph at 10k, whereas factory test data shows 336 mph at 10k. Max speed is only 334 mph at 15k. Again, that's even slower than the Tomahawk IIB (340-345 mph), but lacks the external fuel mount hardware of the Tomahawk.
The P-40E is an odd duck. P-40Es didn't have WEP, but ours does. Max speed for the P-40E varied slightly with different tests, but we should see speeds between 355 mph and 360 mph. Our P-40E, even with WEP, can't do better than 346 mph at 12k using WEP.
Widewing, I'm not sure you're testing them at full throttle height, which would be closer to 15k. [edit: 16k for the B, 14k for the E, I guess]
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=72&p2=73&pw=1>ype=0)
It might be a few mph slow in some cases (seems on the chart it hits almost 320mph at 10k), but it looks reasonable. Are you thinking of maybe the AVG hand-assembled engines that had more speed?
As to the P-40E, well that's an interesting topic. I believe some time many years back you mentioned this point and somebody came forward with a reference to some pilot handbook or some such. The specifics have been lost to time and memory, but I thought they basically gave some credence to the WEP option.
I first thought that perhaps it should have WEP, but not the WEP listed. If you notice the E6B, the actual WEP setting surpasses the listed rating.
An interesting read on the boost levels:
http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php/topic,2418.msg133870.html?PHPSESSID=8d49763cf5be7949de333f3771e2a4ce#msg133870
That 56" seems to match our in-game WEP. However, this is a later 1943 clearance and before that was a field mod "overboost." It doesn't seem quite "wrong" but it's not entirely right either IMO.
This pilot manual:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/other-mechanical-systems-tech/p-40-flight-manual-4877.html#post185901
shows at Dec 1942 that the "official" max takeoff power was still 45.5" and 3000 rpm. Interestingly enough it also says do not lower flaps if faster than 140mph. Our P-40 drops flaps at several hundred mph last I recall.
Definitely deserves a re-visit. Needs to be combed over.
That SAS1946 link I posted above is quite interesting regarding power settings. May not add anything you all didn't know, but it was enlightening for me.
[edit: sorry, called him guppy, my bad was looking one place and quoting another. Fixed.]
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The P40's are one of those birds that NEED to be flown inside their invelope. Meaning, they need room and a bit of speed.
There is no fighter more difficult to succeed in than the P40B. Some of the "name in lights" guys would get my respect if they landed kills in a P40B. The old saing "fear the plyer not the plane" saying goes right out the window when the best of the best hop into a P40B.
amen brother :salute
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Yeah, the P47 flight manual I posted a couple weeks ago also said "Do NOT lower flaps above 195 mph"
My problems with the P-40s are the speeds and woeful flaps.
First, both the P-40B (probably modeled on the Tomahawk IIB), is slower than it should be. The P-40B could easily manage 350 mph. Ours only manages 313 mph at 10k, whereas factory test data shows 336 mph at 10k. Max speed is only 334 mph at 15k. Again, that's even slower than the Tomahawk IIB (340-345 mph), but lacks the external fuel mount hardware of the Tomahawk.
The P-40E is an odd duck. P-40Es didn't have WEP, but ours does. Max speed for the P-40E varied slightly with different tests, but we should see speeds between 355 mph and 360 mph. Our P-40E, even with WEP, can't do better than 346 mph at 12k using WEP.
As to maneuverability, the P-40B is a very good turning fighter. That is, until you get slow where flaps may be needed. At that point, it wallows like a herniated whale. For both the P-40s, the flaps are useless beyond one notch. Use full flaps and you suffer a huge penalty in turn rate, that cannot overcome the modest decrease in turn radius. Likewise for the P-40E. Both have nasty departure characteristics.
You can have fun in either type, but I have been disappointed in both since their introduction to the game.
hopefully the P40 series will reach their RL top speeds when they get remodled :pray
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P-40E speeds measured in-game:
16k: 339 mph
15k: 342 mph
14k: 347 mph w/WEP
13k: 351 mph w/WEP
12k: 347 mph w/WEP
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That seems to mesh with many sources online (some relatively reliable) that suggest from 352 to 355 mph top speed.
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P-40B speed measured in-game.
17k: 338 mph
16k: 337 mph
15k: 334 mph
14k: 330 mph
13k: 326 mph
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My only suggestion... don't fly in front of bullits.
:aok great advice all around :lol
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WW: Is that because you think ours is the P-40C without a DT rack? I seem to recall that from a long ago discussion. Was the P-40C that much slower?
How is the P-40B doing what the P-40E is listed as doing for top speed. Less draggy nose, maybe?
EDIT: Interesting, you are on to something. It seems even the first P-40 models (before the A designation was retrofitted) made that much.
http://www.warbirdforum.com/p040.htm
"The first flight of a P-40 (Ser No 39-156) was on April 4, 1940. Maximum speed was 357 mph at 15,000 feet, service ceiling was 32,750 feet, and initial climb rate was 3080 feet per minute. An altitude of 15,000 feet could reached in 5.2 minutes. The length of the P-40 was 31 feet 8 3/4 inches, which became standard for all early models. Weights were 5376 pounds empty, 6787 pounds gross, and 7215 pounds maximum."
Joe Baugher's commentary. He's not always right on every detail but I think he's pretty good compared to many resources.
Here are his comments on the -B model:
"The P-40B (Model H81B) differed from the P-40 in having an extra 0.30-inch machine gun in each wing. The engine was still the V-1710-33. In September 1940, 131 P-40Bs were procured by the Army to replace the deferred P-40s. Serials were 41-5205/5304 and 41-13297/13327. The first P-40B flew on March 13, 1941. The P-40B retained the same dimensions of the P-40, but weight was increased to 5590 pounds empty, 7326 pounds gross, and 7600 pounds maximum loaded. Because of the additional weight, the P-40B had an inferior performance to the P-40, maximum speed being 352 mph, service ceiling being 32,400 feet, and initial climb rate being 2860 feet per minute. Normal range was 730 miles, but a maximum range of 1230 miles could be attained at the minimum cruise settings."
Very interesting that throughout all the changes from slick nose to big radiator, the speed rarely changed much!
[EDIT2:]
Seems even slow for a P-40C:
"The initial P-40 order was finally completed with 193 P-40Cs (company designation H81-B). Serials were 41-13328/13520. The first flight of a P-40C was made on April 10, 1941. The P-40C retained the 1150 hp Allison V-1710-33 engine, but was fitted with a new fuel system with 134 gallons in new tanks with improved self sealing. In addition, provisions were made for a 52-gallon drop tank below the fuselage. The P-40C had a SCR-247N radio instead of the SCR-283. These additions produced yet another upward crawl in the weight --- the weights for the P-40C were 5812 pounds empty, 7459 pounds gross, and 8058 pounds maximum loaded. Consequently, the performance continued to degrade. Maximum speed was 345 mph at 15,000 feet. Normal and maximum ranges were 730 and 945 miles respectively. Service ceiling was 29,500 feet, and initial climb rate was 2650 feet per minute. Dimensions were wingspan 27 feet 3 1/2 inches, length 31 feet 8 1/2 inches, height 10 feet 7 inches, wing area 236 square feet."
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It took 15 minutes to connect and post my reply, thus I tried it several times resulting in multiple posts. Typical AT&T servers.. I only see this problem with the Aces High forums.
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Duplicate post... See next post.
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WW: Is that because you think ours is the P-40C without a DT rack? I seem to recall that from a long ago discussion. Was the P-40C that much slower?
How is the P-40B doing what the P-40E is listed as doing for top speed. Less draggy nose, maybe?
Yes, our P-40B seems to be modeled on the P-40C/Tomahawk IIB. The added weight and drag of the external fuel tank mounting, added armor and internally sealed fuel tanks reduced performance. P-40Bs, like the AVG's Tomahawk hybrids, used external sealing on the fuel tanks and had no provision for an external tank with the added plumbing. That said, our P-40B is about 7 mph slower than the P-40C. It should easily reach 350 mph, and it's acceleration should be better than that of the heavier P-40E. Climb rate is less as well. I've been harping on this on and off since the P-40s were introduced.
The difference in the nose between the H81 and H87 series of P-40s is the result of a stronger and shorter reduction gear (and case). The reduction gear of the earlier P-40s was rated for only 1,100 hp. This is the prime cause for the unusual number of reduction gear failures among AVG Tomahawks. With their hand-assembled, blueprinted motors, the AVG fighters had as much as 1,300 hp on tap. AVG Tomahawks were about 15 mph faster than the P-40Es they received in the spring of 1942 (ferried in from Africa, via the middle east and India).
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I knew the AVG birds were that fast (and I recall the failures you mention) but I'm a little surprised how fast the stock B models were.
There's no gain from them to the P-40E and later models! That's rather enlightening.
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A P-40 that performs, like a P-51D that turns, would probably be so ruinously popular it would have to be perked, thus... :noid
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A P-40 that performs, like a P-51D that turns, would probably be so ruinously popular it would have to be perked, thus... :noid
Yeah, that would be like introducing the P-40Q.... 400+ mph, turns like a P-40E. :O
I think that the P-40s would see more use if the performance modeling were corrected. Still, they are early-war fighters and would not see a lot of use, except by those who simply like P-40s and those who enjoy the challenge of flying a 1941 fighter in an arena buzzing with late-war monsters.
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Yeah, that would be like introducing the P-40Q.... 400+ mph, turns like a P-40E. :O
I think that the P-40s would see more use if the performance modeling were corrected. Still, they are early-war fighters and would not see a lot of use, except by those who simply like P-40s and those who enjoy the challenge of flying a 1941 fighter in an arena buzzing with late-war monsters.
It's a dead sexy American legend, like the P-51. Like the P-51, I expect it would see far more use than its abilities actually warrant, if it were not positively handicapped. But yes, I admit it would never take over the LWMA, and that is the only MA that counts at this point.
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Not even the best P-40 approached P-51 speeds.
XP-40Q was a stripped down testbed prototype... might as well consider it in the same class as the prototypes of the P-39 for all the difference between prototypes and production war-time models.
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Not even the best P-40 approached P-51 speeds.
XP-40Q was a stripped down testbed prototype... might as well consider it in the same class as the prototypes of the P-39 for all the difference between prototypes and production war-time models.
Three were built, and the design eventually evolved into the final configuration. One was built from a P-40N, and the other two were converted from P-40Ks. They were not stripped down, but were fitted with all Government provided equipment. Aero wise, drag was reduced and the 1,425 (takeoff) hp Allison worked very well. A very similar version would later power most P-82 Twin Mustangs. It could manage 422 mph, not as fast as the P-51, but vastly quicker than the typical P-40.
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Not even the best P-40 approached P-51 speeds.
XP-40Q was a stripped down testbed prototype... might as well consider it in the same class as the prototypes of the P-39 for all the difference between prototypes and production war-time models.
Another net caused double-post..... You guys need a better connection to the web.
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Three were built, and the design eventually evolved into the final configuration. One was built from a P-40N, and the other two were converted from P-40Ks. They were not stripped down, but were fitted with all Government provided equipment. Aero wise, drag was reduced and the 1,425 (takeoff) hp Allison worked very well. A very similar version would later power most P-82 Twin Mustangs. It could manage 422 mph, not as fast as the P-51, but vastly quicker than the typical P-40.
I've seen photos and diagrams of the XP-40Q... It's nothingl ike the P-40N or K. It is longer, thinner, has a totally redesigned frame, a bubbletop canopy, etc.
I can't see how they were "based" on existing models at all. It must have been built from scratch, surely?
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I've seen photos and diagrams of the XP-40Q... It's nothingl ike the P-40N or K. It is longer, thinner, has a totally redesigned frame, a bubbletop canopy, etc.
I can't see how they were "based" on existing models at all. It must have been built from scratch, surely?
As I said, they were conversions of two P-40Ks and a P-40N. Modifications were no more dramatic than that of converting a standard P-51B-1-NA into the XP-51D.
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It all comes down to whom was giving whom the hand jobs, and the "envelope with XXX amounts of thousands of dollars" for the contracts.
Argue all you want, cant beat humanity..or its greed. :devil