Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mthrockmor on June 06, 2011, 03:32:59 PM
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First, I don't want to hijack the "Frustration" thread so I am starting this one, though very much related to the other thread.
The other thread deals with caps on arenas and the impact on the game. One thought that developed that a few seemed to agree with is an outreach effort to the 2-week trial players.
Let's face it, we are all in this together. If everyone leaves who do we get to shoot down. In order to grow this community we need to retain fresh meat, so to speak. One idea was to have the icon for 2-week trial players a different color. I really like this idea. It allows us to reach out to these players and give them some coaching.
Also, many squads are actively recruiting and would welcome new players. We should keep a list of these squads per country to actively help recruit. As an example, I'm in Loose Deuce and we won't take new players, but we would be happy to give pointers and connect them to squads that are recruiting.
We could also consider some version of Trainers, maybe we call them logisitics officers. They actively reach out to 2-weekers and get them in uniform, so to speak. I would gladly volunteer for this.
The more 2-weekers we keep, the more veterans stay around, the larger and stronger the community, the more action we all have.
What other ideas are there? How do we get these ideas to HT? Is Skuzzy going to ban me from the boards...again!? haha
Boo
Loose Deuce
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How much coding would it take to do a offline "Walkthrough" that players are required to perform before coming online? When asked how we heard about AH at the start, the "I am a returning customer" option could exempt you from completing it.
Something simple that teaches players how to take off, fly from point a to point b, shoot a drone flying straight, and land.
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How much coding would it take to do a offline "Walkthrough" that players are required to perform before coming online? When asked how we heard about AH at the start, the "I am a returning customer" option could exempt you from completing it.
Something simple that teaches players how to take off, fly from point a to point b, shoot a drone flying straight, and land.
I don't know about requiring players to do that. I say let them try online first if they really want to skip tutorial, after a few augers and humiliating shoot-downs they'll be all over the tutorial if they really want to get any better.
Perhaps the game could automatically remind any trial player that there is an offline training course every time they die online until they complete the tutorial? Just a little server message in the buffer, that's all I think would be needed.
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There are already MANY players that try to help out the new guys. Of course for every 1 guy trying to help there are 5 Aholes giving the guy a "Alt F4" answer.
I had suggested a training arena that must be passed before allowing people into the MAINs. 4 or 5 missions that run them through some basics of taking off, straffing with guns, landing. Others with buff runs, or GV obstical course to teach the controls to drive. Nothing to demanding, and something that could be mastered in an afternoon. Many games have a training "chapter" to teach you the controls and basic game play.
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We definately need a stick thread with screen shots of stick configuration and scaling other than default settings that get a new player closer to optimized.
I think a lot of issues new players have is related to stick setup.
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I had suggested a training arena that must be passed before allowing people into the MAINs. 4 or 5 missions that run them through some basics of taking off, straffing with guns, landing. Others with buff runs, or GV obstical course to teach the controls to drive. Nothing to demanding, and something that could be mastered in an afternoon. Many games have a training "chapter" to teach you the controls and basic game play.
That's all well and good, but do you really think that learning the controls is the difficulty that two weekers struggle with the most? Do they fail to subscribe after their trial because they couldn't figure out the controls, or how to shoot at a building, or even land?
No, they don't subscribe because they get shot down over and over and don't know why. And they learn quickly that they aren't "wanted" by the player base. They are harassed, called all kinds of fun names, given the Alt-F4 gag everytime they ask a question, and told that they must go to the TA because they suck so bad. They go to the TA... Guess what... They log in to the TA, and unless they are very lucky, there is no Trainer in there. So, from their perspective they've just been the victim of another Alt-F4 style gag. Think they will go back to the TA?
I think that motivating Squads to get involved is what needs to happen.
Imagine a two weekers improved experience if they are paired up with a squad who is willing to show him how to manuever to avoid a HO, how to merge, how to dodge a guy coming down from a large alt advantage. Plus, on top of all that, he immediately gets introduced to some folks in the game. Folks that he knows will answer questions. He'll ask a lot more. Learn faster. And definitely enjoy his 2 weeks more.
While a few canned missions to teach the controls wouldn't hurt, I doubt they will do much to convince a two weeker to subscribe.
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Personally I think the icon colour for trial players is a bad thing. They are marked / flagged up, as a newbie and there are simply too many idiots around who would target them and put them off. How would you like it to be marked as different ? Whatever the good intentions, the idea IMO would be more likely to put people off. By all means allow trial players to chose being marked differently, but don't make it a default.
One way to help would be to update the trainers pages and provide general help pages. - These should be promoted in a more positive way so that people don't have to go looking for them. Out of date help pages may quite possibly put a new player right off because they don't help, they hinder or miss-direct. Perhaps help films in friendly (or familiar) formats would help, such as windows media player etc.. The film viewer should be avoided as a novice guide although the more advanced ACM are fine on the viewer for established users.
Perhaps a clipboard with relevant information for any trial player can come up before they attempt to set up a trial account and during the trial period. I would like to think that you want new players to get good use out of that two weeks trial. Common sense advice like advising them to learn some of the basics off-line first might help. I have no idea what happens at the moment so it's just an idea.
We are all very different. Some people like to jump straight in, others like to be shown a structured introduction. It's not possible to find one solution for all, but you can give people choices.
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That's all well and good, but do you really think that learning the controls is the difficulty that two weekers struggle with the most? Do they fail to subscribe after their trial because they couldn't figure out the controls, or how to shoot at a building, or even land?
No, they don't subscribe because they get shot down over and over and don't know why. And they learn quickly that they aren't "wanted" by the player base. They are harassed, called all kinds of fun names, given the Alt-F4 gag everytime they ask a question, and told that they must go to the TA because they suck so bad. They go to the TA... Guess what... They log in to the TA, and unless they are very lucky, there is no Trainer in there. So, from their perspective they've just been the victim of another Alt-F4 style gag. Think they will go back to the TA?
I think that motivating Squads to get involved is what needs to happen.
Imagine a two weekers improved experience if they are paired up with a squad who is willing to show him how to manuever to avoid a HO, how to merge, how to dodge a guy coming down from a large alt advantage. Plus, on top of all that, he immediately gets introduced to some folks in the game. Folks that he knows will answer questions. He'll ask a lot more. Learn faster. And definitely enjoy his 2 weeks more.
While a few canned missions to teach the controls wouldn't hurt, I doubt they will do much to convince a two weeker to subscribe.
I think the reason I stayed after my trial was because Chewie took me under his wing very early on, for a while I was just another dweeb in a horde of NOE dweebs, but I wasn't left to myself and I had guys who were eager to back me up or give me pointers with just a click of the channel button. I agree with the notion of making new players feel welcome.
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blagard did a good job pointing out the various issues a new player faces...by far the largest problem is the current player base...no names but we all see enough stupid crap on the text buffer every day...new people don't know and don't care who you are or how elite you are when they're starting out, they're trying to figure out what to do. i'm willing to bet there has been more than 1 new person who did something most people learn not to do and got a nasty pm out of it. and new people absolutely don't want to know what your sociopoliticalreligious expert testimony is either.
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Some HUGE things that would help the 2-week trial offer new folks:
A) If smarty-buttocks folks would stop saying "ALT + F4" to everyone with a new player question
B) If smarty-buttocks folks would stop saying "Hey NOOB--go to the Training Arena" (it's not always staffed 24/7 world-wide)
C) If experienced players see a new person asking obvious "new player" question like--"How do I start my engine?", "How do I get my joystick to work?", and "How do I keep from stalling all the time?" To do some one-on-one mentoring.
It's not hard at all to find a clear text/VOX channel and get them to go there and walk them through the "everyday easy's". You are not only saving them from always doing it on green, you are helping someone new with what I'm pretty sure everyone agrees is a pretty steep learning curve for planes, and almost as bad for gv's and gv/gunnery skills.
What are ya afraid of? They might shoot you down someday?
Besides, you just might be helping a future squaddie who has natural talent.
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How many here tune to the help channel...perhaps as an added to some of the above mentioned
when on a two week trial the motd pops up with information about this channel and it is tuned to the first " / " text channel ( would need to be brief as many will just want to jump on and go..as is noticed) ...this may then help to keep the country channels clear and give a clear in site to a new player Then a more experienced player could pick up and show the ropes if they have the time or just keep it to the help channel...
I know I've been tuned to this channel before...(not for some time now) so not sure how much use it actually gets these days. People could even direct them to this...I for one will have this tuned from here on in.
??? just chucking it out there
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Perhaps HTC can one way or another, invite people to say what was it that brought them to the game in the first place and what was it that made them stay. Equally, what did people find off-putting in the beginning.
A Poll would be one way, but you need effective questions to make that work. Picking comments from threads such as this would be a good starting point.
I joined because I have an interest in all things flying
I enjoyed being in a squad even if the squad later moved away - I remained because overall it works for me so continue as a lone wolf
I did not like getting shot down by the aircraft I never saw and certainly not trying to get up at a capped field! - These days I usually see the one who shoots me and I enjoy defending as long as I can take one out before I die!
The social aspect of the game is a major plus - If a newbie gets to join the right sort of squad early on it may make all the difference. PFactorDave's idea to motivate squads to help is a sound idea, I am just not sure how we can make it happen. Perhaps some way for online people with authority to invite being highlighted in the roster when they are looking to recruit ?
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How many here tune to the help channel...perhaps as an added to some of the above mentioned
I am about 2/3rd of my time.
And most time I do spend there trying to explain players how to tune to a different (=country) channel because they are using it just as a chat channel (quite often in vain). On the other hand they can't really expect to find any serious help there much of the time.
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I really like the icon color idea. It'd have to be seen by fellow countrymen only though. Otherwise, they'd be meat to the slaughter. :devil
In an online situation, a 2 weeker (bearing a highlighted icon) would be approached by many squads looking to recruit a new member. Once in a squad, they'd be privy to all sorts of info that regular players view as "common knowledge". New players are just that... New players. There is no common knowledge, and unless you luck out and find someone that will take take you under their proverbial wing, you're in for a long and frustrating road to gain such knowledge.
Now, couple the 2 weeker icon idea with a short tutorial that would be available during the player's trial period and voila! You've got a new player that knows the basics and is a good candidate for recruitment by a squad. Once in a squad that they're comfortable with, the new player will gain friendship and camraderie, making the decision to sign up as a paying member that much easier.
Very few people that are new and get accepted into a squad or community will want to "abandon" such ties at the first sign of frustration due to the learning curve. The new players would have that "Ah-Ha" moment much more quickly. The confidence that they'd build would also encourage better ACM and fights, being that they think that they actually have a chance to win a solid 1v1 fight in the MA, rather than thinking that they have no chance and the best option is to fly with a large group or run away from any fight where there's the slightest risk of losing.
All in all, a new player having a highlighted or slightly different icon, coupled with a short tutorial of the basics of the game would help immensely with player retention IMO.
:salute
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I remember...
I did a little reading, but it was a lot to take in and I was excited to see what cartoon airplanes would look and fly like, especially against other people (this was my first online game). I got in a plane and took off which was fairly simple. Saw another aircraft in front of me with a green icon so I followed him. Didn't know there were three countries or at that time, green meant friendly, but he didn't both me so I didn't bother him, just enjoyed the countryside and the experience of "flying". All of a sudden another plane showed up, with a red icon. He and the green guy started flying around each other, I stayed out of the way. Red guy killed green guy, then headed for me. I tried to fly around him, but died quickly. Probaly a good thing since I didn't know exactly how the may worked, where I was, and what I should do to get home. Tower was a familiar sight.
I recount this, my first flight in Aces High to focus on the need for some small info blurb (MOD) for newbs that they can't avoid the first time they fly and tells them they are in a three-way war and that they take-off and land at green bases. Green guys are countryment, red are one of two enemies, etc. Further it could list that they have options to go to the TA to learn, as one of the green guys to help, etc.
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Some HUGE things that would help the 2-week trial offer new folks:
A) If smarty-buttocks folks would stop saying "ALT + F4" to everyone with a new player question
B) If smarty-buttocks folks would stop saying "Hey NOOB--go to the Training Arena" (it's not always staffed 24/7 world-wide)
C) If experienced players see a new person asking obvious "new player" question like--"How do I start my engine?", "How do I get my joystick to work?", and "How do I keep from stalling all the time?" To do some one-on-one mentoring.
It's not hard at all to find a clear text/VOX channel and get them to go there and walk them through the "everyday easy's". You are not only saving them from always doing it on green, you are helping someone new with what I'm pretty sure everyone agrees is a pretty steep learning curve for planes, and almost as bad for gv's and gv/gunnery skills.
What are ya afraid of? They might shoot you down someday?
Besides, you just might be helping a future squaddie who has natural talent.
I think the biggest help, other than their own personal AH trainer, is if the new guys knew of a few good more-or-less public squad channels to tune to for everything from help to casual socialising rather than channel 200... in fact, 2-week trials should be banned for 4-weeks from 200 for their own good and sake of progressive development in the game. But seriously, I wish each squad could advertise or have it selectable from the roster to tune to their channel, if public, for other players to participate/communicate with them that might want to (and squad officers could maybe have permission to mute/kick people from it if there are abuses).
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Possibly a drop down list of squads on the clipboard with a button that sends a request to join that squad's vox. I could see that being useful, but who would make the decision to allow/deny access?
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Gets a little complicated there. Maybe under the squad management menu, have a class/category to assign squad members as vox moderators. Also maybe under that menu manually specify the "Squad vox" number too the squad leader wants. IE: POTW in knight-side 152. Squad members maybe default to this channel when joining the arena.
Only complication I see are us large multi-squad/wing squads, so hopefuly those multiple wings can specify the same channel, but that might lead to some problems with having moderators that can eject other moderators or other issues....
Edit: you could take off squad-size limitations in-game, but I think it would also add more functionality if two squads who wanted to join their voxs together temporarily or permanently for joint operations could do so via one of the squad's changing their default squad vox to the hosting squad's vox.
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That's all well and good, but do you really think that learning the controls is the difficulty that two weekers struggle with the most? Do they fail to subscribe after their trial because they couldn't figure out the controls, or how to shoot at a building, or even land?
No, they don't subscribe because they get shot down over and over and don't know why. And they learn quickly that they aren't "wanted" by the player base. They are harassed, called all kinds of fun names, given the Alt-F4 gag everytime they ask a question, and told that they must go to the TA because they suck so bad. They go to the TA... Guess what... They log in to the TA, and unless they are very lucky, there is no Trainer in there. So, from their perspective they've just been the victim of another Alt-F4 style gag. Think they will go back to the TA?
I think that motivating Squads to get involved is what needs to happen.
Imagine a two weekers improved experience if they are paired up with a squad who is willing to show him how to manuever to avoid a HO, how to merge, how to dodge a guy coming down from a large alt advantage. Plus, on top of all that, he immediately gets introduced to some folks in the game. Folks that he knows will answer questions. He'll ask a lot more. Learn faster. And definitely enjoy his 2 weeks more.
While a few canned missions to teach the controls wouldn't hurt, I doubt they will do much to convince a two weeker to subscribe.
Having a training tutorial and making each new player go through the training will do a number of things.
Teach them how to set up their controls and do basic stuff like taking off, straffing targets (angles, compression, aim) landing (ON the runway NOT on the grass, and why) Radio controls, GV driving, buff missions to a strat, even a mission agains the AI for some fighter training.
As well as training it will get a person "into" the game, as they MUST be flight qualified to fly. Missions start with a briefing and end with one getting the info MOST players don't LOOK for, or spend their first night loading the text with question like "how do I start my tank?"
All of the info NEEDED to play this game is very easy to find. The trainers have a good site full of info, as well as HTC's help section on the main page. The problem is nobody wants to read this info, they want to play! Well let them play in the training tutorial.
Marking new guys with a different color would be the best way to chase off new people. More than half the players today go for HOs and vulches to get easy kills as apposed to fighting for one. Now you want to high light the baby seals?
Helping new players is great. I try when I see a question pop up. I also spend some time on the "newbs" channel and get ignore more often than not. My squad, has taken in a number of new players and showed them the ropes. Our squads, unlike other doesn't have an age limit. But for every squad or person out there that helps, there are two, three who knows how many working against them. People trashing new guys on the radio, PMs, not allowing them to wing with or join their squad. It's looking more like high school than a club where we all have a common interest in flying.
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Unskippable tutorials is bad game design. Let someone jump into the fray if they want to, don't restrict them from actually playing the game. We all stomp our feet and throw temper tantrums when caps keep us from playing with our friends, mandatory training would do the same thing.
Let someone pursue the training on their own, the game could remind them that the tutorial is available for the duration of their 2-week trial when they get killed or crash.
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Two seekers are not annoying. Years of playing vets who should know the etiquette of the game are.
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give the newb in green country diff colored tags or somesort of marker
how about making the help channel a default channel for 2 weekers or scrolling helpful tidbits across the help screen this could include trainers nics or squads that want to help newbs?
maybe a diff title screen for newbs that instructs them how to find the forums or schedule a trainer.
as far as being told to goto the training room I still get that when i ask questions :bhead
shoot new accounts an email that kinda leads them through basic set ups and procedures
just some ideas comin froma guy that has been a "NEWB" in atleast halfa dozen Flight sims,it's really all up to the community
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oh yea as far as making someone complete "basic" training bad idea i never did make it over the last obstacle in america's army :bhead
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HTC out of touch.
Seems same complaints and help/ideas given for years w/o implementation.
One that makes most sense is new player stick set up aids
Another would be an optional tutorial...like many first shooters have used for nearly 2 decades.
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oh yea as far as making someone complete "basic" training bad idea i never did make it over the last obstacle in america's army :bhead
I'm guessing you passed basic ok, that was the SF thing where you have to creep around without getting discovered - that is not easy! :uhoh
a similar, short basic training for AH would be a great idea :aok
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Guys, for different colored icons for two-weekers, I meant within the country only (no way should opposing pilots be able to see a two-weeker highlighted with a different color) -- that would be just wicked evil.
Another, perhaps easier way to implement would be to prefix their handles with a special character, '^' for example -only countrymen would be able to ID two-weekers. Our goal should be to help these players acclimate to the game, learn the ropes.
Or, perhaps the first time a new trial member goes online, he is automatically added to squad called 'The Nuggets' which is CO'd by a trainer or community manager - somebody would always need to be available for this duty. Their job would be to answer questions, wing with them and give them pointers, help them get that first kill and land it, etc. Anyway it would be a human introduction to the game--some players might like that and maybe some wouldn't.
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I definitely think an arena that is all AI, has every "type" of mission for beginners, from fighter sweeps, to bombers bombing, to GV's doing there GV thing....
I would say it should not be mandatory but optional, give them incentive though, every "mission" completed they earn perks that can be used in the MA,(the better in the mission you do the more perks earned) this arena shouldn't just be for noobs though, any one can go and earn some perks and practice, with out having to do it in the MA, to get ridiculed when you drop bombs on your own field. :rofl
this would go a long way to get the noobs up to par for some MA fun.
I can see the "fighter" mission, you pick the nme plane, situation, number of nme's, ALT, load out, then you go do the mission, x amount of perks for every nme plane shot down.
a new "war" arena that is not necessarily replaying the exact way the war went down, but instead of knights,rooks,bish, its the real countries.
when you first sign into the arena you sign up for what you want to play as, IE fighter, bomber....and what country you want to fly for.
this could have squad made missions and/or single player mission, along with AI missions that you could join.
with this arena, the two main LW arena's could be dissolved into one, the player base would be spread out through out the MA's,WAR arena, and training arena's, so the cesspool of the one main arena would be nullified.
change the dynamics of the MA's to a local eny(depending on the number of friendlies/nmes in a given area will depend on perks earned), perk EVERY plane, a spot on every map that has a fighter, and GV, area that cannot be taken. more ground targets to destroy, bridges, trains, and what not.
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Dale I found a sale on-line for red tape ( you might want to stock up ) ;) :bolt:
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In Warbirds we have a "page trainer" button on the GUI.
Actually it works good, new users get help with issues that might not be of concern for the whole country channel ,and that not will be responded with "Do alt/F4"
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Or, perhaps the first time a new trial member goes online, he is automatically added to squad called 'The Nuggets' which is CO'd by a trainer or community manager - somebody would always need to be available for this duty. Their job would be to answer questions, wing with them and give them pointers, help them get that first kill and land it, etc. Anyway it would be a human introduction to the game--some players might like that and maybe some wouldn't.
I like that :aok They would feel less lonely, helping each other, winging, doing noob raids, maybe then create a squad...failing as a group is funnier.
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Not a good idea. Because of people like me.....
I LOVE 2 WEEKERS.
They are the easiest of kills. They are the hunted. Suddenly making them pink or some other color would only require a single PM to a friend (enemy)......
"hey bro, where are the pinkies flying?"
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There are many great points so far. A quick summary that I hope is accurate:
1. 2-weekers (maybe even up to a few months) get an in-country different color icon so we know they might need help.
2. Some sort of drop down list/menu of squads that are recruiting.
3. Optional tutorial on how to access basics, such as VOX, drop down menu, trainers, Aces High Bulletin Board, etc.
4. A training squad function.
Is this accurate?
With #4, the US Navy calls this a RAG, or Replenishment Air Group. The idea is the nuggets have learned how to fly the combat plane such as F-18, in the RAG they learn how to fight the plane.
Putting these ideas together I see a really easy environment where 2-weekers get a different color, easy tutorial on how to use VOX, etc, then options for squads to help assimilate them into the community. I am not good enough to be a trainer but I would love to help out with a RAG function, which should not require one to leave their squad.
Did I miss anything? Actually, I really like the AI option though I just summarized what I think would be quick fixes. Maybe the easier function is a bi-weekly Noob mission or scenario. Maybe it is weekly lead through the RAG. If each country has a RAG it would be easy enough to make this happen. Even small 10 v 10 missions would be great tutorials and motivate the 2-weekers. Oh, maybe we should add the whole "alt -f4" thing to the Rules.
Boo
PS If we agree on some of these concepts how do we get them to HT?
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A trained division of noobs, flying as a team will smoke any ace 1 v 4...all day long!
Boo
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A real ace would not put himself in a 1 vs 4 situation :airplane:
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Could the "Quick Reference Guide" be made easier to find? When I started Aces, Olds told me where to find it and life got better ingame.
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Could the "Quick Reference Guide" be made easier to find?
Should be included in the download and linked in the starting folder as well as on desktop (optional)
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A real ace would not put himself in a 1 vs 4 situation :airplane:
he would put himself in the position to kill all four :aok
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Could the "Quick Reference Guide" be made easier to find? When I started Aces, Olds told me where to find it and life got better ingame.
First thing I did when I started AH. :aok
There are a few other simple learning curve issues that shouldn't be to hard to pass to a newbie:
Setting and saving head positions.
Clipboard options (zoom, preferences).
Radio and text options.
Outside (F3) maneuvering in a bomber formation.
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Frustration Maximus:
http://bit.ly/Olex
If you're not "browser savvy" don't click it.
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I'll help those who help themselves. If they won't even read a little to learn then I'll move to the next guy to see if he is more serious about learning the game.
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right now we all have "buddies" we like to fly with and " cons" we enjoy fighting, they all started as 2 weekers. The more people we get to be members in good standing the better off we all are. So help them out and tell the putzs that are slagging them off to get a grip. Even if you see them doing something that will clearly end with a BOOM, butt in and help them out, Shuffler did that a few times with me and it really helped.
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I hope these words or wisdom will be heard at HTC
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Speaking of different icons for newbs, when I fist started in the DA, I kept seeing icons turn from Typh to TEMP at d-600, for weeks I thought that meant they were "Temps"-as in on a 2 week trial, and was happy to suscribe so that my icon wouldnt say TEMP any more. (so that idea might just work, in just that way, hurry up n join so your icon changes to normal!)
:lol
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worst idea ever is get all the new guys a different color. as it is we have guys switching countries to kill goons. imagine when they see some new guy upping in a base :rofl.
I am so glad HT doesnt let some of you run his business. for sure there will be nobody here next month. :bolt:
semp
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I think the idea of a training squad is a great idea. In the 2 years I have played I still consider myself a newb compared to some of you gents. It would go a long way to get folks coming in not only trained as to flying and fighting but help get them into the culture here in a more friendly way.
I have seen in the last few years a change in the game as I am quite sure happens to any game such as this where the player base changes. The skill level to some degree has dropped abit with all the complaints of the hoeing and picking and such which seem to be on the rise. To this I must say is all of our faults. With little or no real way to learn other than to get in there and do it unless you get lucky and hook up with a good squad or someone who will take the time to teach you, you do what works..IE. Ho or pick or whatever. We as a community need to get these folks and teach them before they learn the bad habits. We need to show them what makes a good fight and what doesn't.
I think the training corps needs to be expanded and that instead of bashing the new guys ( which so often happens on 200) we take them aside and show them why they died or why what they did was not the proper way to do it. I see how as the player base gets younger how it devolves into every other online line game. 200 should be an indication of this and all of the mess that goes on there.
If we want the game to evolve and continue to grow then we all need to do our part in getting the new folks in and then giving them a reason to stay and improve thus making our own experiences here better.
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Gun,
The different color would be seen only by players from the same country. Players from opposing countries would still see all enemy icons as the same color.
Another suggestion was to prefix their handles with a special character like '+' or '^'. Only same country players see this info.
Cheers
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C) If experienced players see a new person asking obvious "new player" question like--"How do I start my engine?", "How do I get my joystick to work?", and "How do I keep from stalling all the time?" To do some one-on-one mentoring.
It's not hard at all to find a clear text/VOX channel and get them to go there and walk them through the "everyday easy's". You are not only saving them from always doing it on green, you are helping someone new with what I'm pretty sure everyone agrees is a pretty steep learning curve for planes, and almost as bad for gv's and gv/gunnery skills.
This is my favorite thing to do with these folks. It turns out to be such great fun to pass on what my wife call "trivial information" :D But I do like showing the new guys some great tricks
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The only reason I stayed after my free trial was because of the Free H2H arenas. While I understand why HTC would not bring this back how it was, it was part of the game that taught me how to play the game as well as getting me addicted.
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The only reason I stayed after my free trial was because of the Free H2H arenas. While I understand why HTC would not bring this back how it was, it was part of the game that taught me how to play the game as well as getting me addicted.
+1
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I think all of the suggestions for the community to do a better job of looking after new players would work, but won't happen.
New players quit because it is too hard, and takes too long for them to have success, any success. People will only put up with futility for so long. The training arena doesn't work as a learning tool because it does not create the thrill of success. People coming to a game, to discover it, want it to be fun right away. Yes folks could learn in the training arena, but they're not going to forgo action for training, that feels too much like work. The MA provides the action and thrill they are looking for, but it doesn't satisfy their desire for success and victory, because they get pounded by the overwhelming number of veteran players.
So how do you combine the thrill and fun of the MA, with the learning experience of the TA, in an environment where newbs can actually win and have the success that will keep them interested?
I think a New Player arena would help.
The New Player arena would be a small map and would have good action if anywhere from 6-30 folks where logged on it. The newb arena locks out veterans except for certified trainers. The trainers are there to fly around and explain how things work. The trainers guns are like TA guns [hits but no damage]. Newb's guns are live.
Keeping it staffed with 2 to three trainers is all that would be required. Trainers fly around with/against 6 to 30 players shooting and getting hits, giving tips on the fly, etc. The trainers get a new radio function: Enemy Range Channel. This would let the trainers talk to enemies in Icon range.
In the newb arena, newbs fight each other. Early success would now be attainable for all. Trainers will teach them the basics and explain how the game works, how a base is captured, etc.
Whether a newb would have to go through the newb arena is a matter to discuss. I can see it as another arena on the main clipboard. New players can go to the MA, where they would see what playing at a high level looks like. But after getting pounded there, they could opt to go back and start the process against other green pilots with trainers on hand to help. Veteran players would be locked out from the "New Player" arena. Newbs would have score and rank in the New Player arena, just like MA keeps veteran player's scores.
The newbs will learn how to master the view system, basic gunnery, and ACM by fighting each other. And they will have success because the folks they are playing against will make many of the same mistakes they do. They will learn from each other, and the trainers. They will play in an environment where their skill development will lead directly to better success. This will inspire and encourage them, unlike the MA where everything is futile in the beginning, leading to discouragement and quitting.
It's different from the training arena because the training arena is missing the element of success. No one wins in the Training arena, there is no competition. This leads to disinterest and boredom.
It's different from the MA because while the MA creates competition and action, but it denies them success for too long a period of time, so they lose the motivation to keep playing.
When a person reaches a certain point they are no longer newbs, and are locked out of the Newb arena. What that point is can be experimented with, like a time period, a certain rank, completion of set criteria [drop troops and capture a base, kill x-number of AAA guns, shoot down y-number of planes etc, z-number of bombing points]
I've heard the argument before that you only learn from playing against better players. But that only works as an advanced concept for folks looking to move from good to expert. It is a terrible concept for folks with no skill, trying to play a very complex game. Would you teach your son to play football by suiting him up, sending him to Baltimore Raven's training camp and putting him in at QB in a live scrimmage against Ray Lewis.? Of course not. You might want to let him play with folks at his own level for a while.
A New Player arena would work better than the current methods because it would provide a more optimized combination of Action, Learning, and Practicing, attributes over what is currently available in the TA or MA. Think of it as little league baseball of fighter pilots.
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Some new players just don't want to put the effort in to learn or go to a site that they can learn from.
You can lead that horse to water but you can't make them drink it. Been there, done that in my Trainer days.
95% of them look for the short cuts and 'cheats' that other games have and there are no short cuts or cheats in this game.
You actually have to put in the time and effort to learn some stuff in Aces High. THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.
NOTE- cheat not meant as in cheat or hack the game, meant as a hit this or that key for special powers type of thing.
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Not really true though sir......... If you are a "friendly" person who talks to all countries, it wouldn't be hard to find where all the new people are flying.
Identifying "new" people would be a bad thing no matter how you slice it.
Gun,
The different color would be seen only by players from the same country. Players from opposing countries would still see all enemy icons as the same color.
Another suggestion was to prefix their handles with a special character like '+' or '^'. Only same country players see this info.
Cheers
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Not really true though sir......... If you are a "friendly" person who talks to all countries, it wouldn't be hard to find where all the new people are flying.
Identifying "new" people would be a bad thing no matter how you slice it.
Sad to say, you might be right about that LLogann. Human nature being what it is and all.
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It is sad, but true...... Kind of like a Metallica song :D
Even in the current conditions, some stuff I can totally agree with, like asking a friend to tell you the location of the CV that is 12 sectors away from the front. But what would wind up happening is the same conversations would occur with the perk farmers ( I know this because I am one of them ) asking where the new people are flying.
Sad to say, you might be right about that LLogann. Human nature being what it is and all.
But you said something about a symbol, instead of a diff color.... That might not be too bad. At least then it would take more than just pulling up the clipboard. :cheers:
:salute
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There used to be a command or check-box someplace that would let you know when a new player entered the arena.
That was back when a new player could mention the person who helped him the most and that helper would get some minor compensation.
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Some new players just don't want to put the effort in to learn or go to a site that they can learn from.
You can lead that horse to water but you can't make them drink it. Been there, done that in my Trainer days.
95% of them look for the short cuts and 'cheats' that other games have and there are no short cuts or cheats in this game.
You actually have to put in the time and effort to learn some stuff in Aces High. THEY DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.
NOTE- cheat not meant as in cheat or hack the game, meant as a hit this or that key for special powers type of thing.
I tend to agree with you Fuzeman but to be fair I think there are 2 groups of "new" players those that need or want instant success and those that are willing to put "some" time in to be successful.
Unfortunately the trainers cant be in the TA all the time,there simply isnt enough of us to cover all the timezones and days. One thing that could help though is instead of telling a new player to go to the TA,ask them if you can take them to the TA/DA to show them some of the fundamentals.
There is a link on the clipboard that directs you to HTC's website but I dont think it's used often enough,one of the reasons could be...see above quote...
Hopefully with the implementation of user spawned arenas,players who would like to help out new players can setup an arena just for that purpose.
:salute
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Other similar software include a decent set of packaged scenarios right out of the box.
Something AH seriously lacks.
My 2c
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i think the true reality here is that were not seeing as many true flight Sim players trying the game out,( console type players, not that that's bad now) if you really like flying and flying type Sims then you'll stick it out through the steep learning curve and Subscribe, if there not then they don't Subscribe, i think were seeing more of the players looking for instant kills instant gratification that you get from other games like FPS type,( run around in large groups spray and pray games) i think that's more in line with the people that are trying it out more so than the true Flight Sim person, the only reason i have stayed so long is because of my love for WWII planes and it's history and flying in general and some of the coolest people ive meet along the way.
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"We", who now play, are no different than "they", who are just learning.
It was very difficult for all of us the first day but because we had the desire, we put in the time and effort to learn a little every day, and at the very least get some "seat time". Each and every mistake teaches us something more. I still learn something every day.
My point is, the folks coming in are no different than we were. Many people just won't make the effort and will leave because they are not happy.
This wonderful game is just not for everyone. Keep bringing in the "2 weekers", some will stay, some will leave.
How should they be treated by the "we" that are now here? Well, that is the question, your personal answer is the only thing you can control so go do what you think is best.
How do I treat "2 weekers"? The same way I treat everyone, just read my sig line.
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Todays consol players are no different than how many of us started with boxed PC flight games 25 years ago. How many of you installed the game and hit the instant action button with unlimited ammo in easy combat mode first time out to see what the game had without reading the manual? Even SWOTL had a bomber gunner practice scenario. We worked our way up on the boxed games until we could kill everything in Ace mode with our eyes closed. Then we discovered AW or WB and here we are 20 years later.
The AH offline missions are still catering to SIMMERS and not console players. Too much setup, reading and following directions to keep them entertained long enough to like the core game. Takes a bit of reading to even discover the offline missions. Instant easy action is what they understand with a button that says "INSTANT ACTION HERE". AW had that offline and if I remember WB had something similar where you could pick your opponent and meet at any alt to duel him.
Put something simple into offline after they push the "INSTANT ACTION HERE" button that lets them have unlimited ammo, ordinance and selectable mode cons to slaughter. After you drop all of your bombs and rockets you hit a hot key and have to wait 30 seconds for a reload in the air. Have 3-5 fixed scenario and a message that for more action open a 2 week trial account in the MA. Even put in a bomber gunner practice scenario along with a tank battle scenario.
How many of you have your offline arena setup configured to 1 for fuel burn and ammo multi to 10x with the auto jabo and lead comp gunsight enabled? I know, thats only for personal testing purposes.......custom gunsights and things like that for data collection purposes. Adults Pool Only.... :)
Cheesey...yes. Too much work for HTC...yes. But, search back through all of the old posts asking us to tell our personal flight sim stories. The common factor was we all started with PC/Consol type games and worked our way up from being lazy instant action dweebs to simmers against AI cons and enemies. Instant gratification from the safety of our PC's and Consol's helped us get to this excellent game.
Anyone seeing any new WW2 air combat titles being released out there for PC or consol lately? I'm seeing lots of TechnoDweeb FPS on Comcast channels. It may be time for the game to raise it's own next generation of players before WW2 becomes a single paragraph in K-12 history books along with the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI, Korea and Viet Nam.
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Fuzeman, what about the ideas of a RAG or a drop down of squads that are recruiting newer players? What about having a drop down with designated mini-trainers in the MA? Many of us help when asked but if there were even a simple, formal way of allowing 2-weekers to seek guidance. I've had a few newer pilots ask to join me and watch how I fly. We could even have pilots designated as "two-seaters" in this way.
Just thinking out loud. I think there has to be some way to try and help connect those that need the help with those willing to provide it.
Boo
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Fuzeman, what about the ideas of a RAG or a drop down of squads that are recruiting newer players? What about having a drop down with designated mini-trainers in the MA? Many of us help when asked but if there were even a simple, formal way of allowing 2-weekers to seek guidance. I've had a few newer pilots ask to join me and watch how I fly. We could even have pilots designated as "two-seaters" in this way.
Just thinking out loud. I think there has to be some way to try and help connect those that need the help with those willing to provide it.
Boo
As it was directed at me, IMO squads change too much for that to be good or accurate, they come they go. I know personally I try to discourage the alt-F4 crap and still help the occasional person. The training-gene doesn't die easily but in my case I'm pretty sure it's on life support.
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i dunno abt you guys... but i have trained a lot of 2 weekers.. the thing is not abt training them which is not a problem.. it is the personal fact that after you teach this dude... he may not wanna subscribe... and all that training was a waste... dun't you think? :bhead well unless they confirm that they are going to subscribe then i'll help them...but admit it... the alt f4 was funny once! :neener: my squaddie willy928 uses it all the time for toejams and giggles... well i grew up with alt f4s... dun you think the next batch should learn too? then they can do that to the other newbies :rock... isn't AH FUN! :banana:
well if they do ask for help i do help...
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:cheers:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,299766.0.html
As it was directed at me, IMO squads change too much for that to be good or accurate, they come they go. I know personally I try to discourage the alt-F4 crap and still help the occasional person. The training-gene doesn't die easily but in my case I'm pretty sure it's on life support.
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Fuzeman, can you do me/us a favor, or atleast go with it to see. Allow us to form a RAG and help support it with a couple drop down links. Maybe even allow a symbol next to the callsign of a newbie, maybe up to 6 months. Let's just see what happens.
I have no doubt we can staff the RAG with great volunteers and with even an "*" next to the name we can know when and who to help. I know, bad idea and all but let us try it out. I think it can be done with very little effort on the part of HT and could pay some serious dividends. If we keep 100 players over the course of a year, that's $1,500/mo revenue for HT. Having run small businesses before, that is likely a big chunk of your utility bill each month.
What do you say?
Boo
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Why ask Fuse? He doesn't work for HTC.
There is a training corps in aces High already full of very skilled players.
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I flew a lot about 5 years ago and recently returned... and my biggest frustration when I tried to restart was trying to get joysticks mapped. I installed the game twice in the past and just gave up. Having some default mappings for the most popular sticks would be useful. I am sure a lot of people try to two week trial and bail because they can never get off the ground.
As for help... no one ever answer a single question I asked on the help channel... and despite trying to register on this board my account was never granted permission to log on and post (using my account from along time ago now)... so the avenues for a new player to get past the two weeks and be successful are pretty grim.
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Do new players get frustrated and quit before their two weeks are up? Or do they play until their time is up but then don't sign up afterwards? If the latter, then perhaps extending the trial period to a month would help. I found learning this game pretty overwhelming back in the late beta days, and I was coming from a flight sim background in AW. I at least had a long period of free play to adjust to it.
If the former, then HTC might want to consider some optional, hard-coded offline training program for new players which would allow them to download the game and learn some basic skills before even signing up for their trial period.
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That's a little harsh, no? Last time I looked he's got an extra line of words under his name that you, nor I have. Although I understand where you're coming from, I don't see the point it blowing it out of proportion. In theory he is closer to an employee than you are, I am, most of us even.
Why ask Fuse? He doesn't work for HTC.
There is a training corps in aces High already full of very skilled players.
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I guess I thought "CM Staff" meant something.
Apparently I need to chase down Skuzzy or someone else. It may be a deadend and if so fine but providing a little training to newbies is fun. Doesn't take away from squad activities and improves the whole game, minus those wanting to chalk up kills on the weak. That is fun as well. Love a good moving target practice but in any case...
It is obvious that over the years many have tried hard to assimilate the newer players to varying degree of success. Learning from past efforts is important though new efforts should be applauded. Eventually we will hit on the right formula to maximize retention.
Boo
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Identifying "new" people would be a bad thing no matter how you slice it.
I don't know, if there was a new player icon or ID tag visible only to friendlies I think players would watch out for them and help them out more.
"Hey new guy, if you want to, you can follow us"
It should be a toggle feature that a new player could opt out of if they chose to.
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It should be a toggle feature that a new player could opt out of if they chose to.
This might be the best idea yet. Those wanting to look for newer players to help can toggle and see them. That should be a very easy add to the game. Now for the RAG.
Boo
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Hmm I was thinking the new player could toggle on his newbie beacon, but your idea might work too.
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I wasn't trying to harsh with fuse. I'm a blackberry and try to keep things short.
Boo, you can start a squad and do nothing but train if you want. Each day you log in just scroll through the roster and everyone with a 0 rank and not attached to a squad may be a good candidate. As for pushing things through, Hitech and Pyro are the top dogs, Skuzzy is the tech, and the others are art people. If you need to get something going and you need HTC help email them direct for a better and quicker response.
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I gotta admit that I would like a newbie beacon that they can turn off. I would love to help and having it on would be a "Help me please" sign. Default to on, when they are comfortable, turn if off whenever they feel like it.
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why does the beacon have to show to the enemy, why not just to friendlies?
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I gotta admit that I would like a newbie beacon that they can turn off. I would love to help and having it on would be a "Help me please" sign. Default to on, when they are comfortable, turn if off whenever they feel like it.
That is an excellent idea. Let the player decide if he wants other to be able to identify him as new at first glance.
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They can do the same thing by tuning the training channel on the radio, and you can help by tuning it also. Systems are there, but if nobody uses them they still don't help.
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why does the beacon have to show to the enemy, why not just to friendlies?
That's what I think is being said, have it visible only to friendlies.
They can do the same thing by tuning the training channel on the radio, and you can help by tuning it also. Systems are there, but if nobody uses them they still don't help.
Maybe have an identifier on by default, but with the ability to turn it off.
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Fuzeman, can you do me/us a favor, or atleast go with it to see. Allow us to form a RAG and help support it with a couple drop down links. Maybe even allow a symbol next to the callsign of a newbie, maybe up to 6 months. Let's just see what happens.
I have no doubt we can staff the RAG with great volunteers and with even an "*" next to the name we can know when and who to help. I know, bad idea and all but let us try it out. I think it can be done with very little effort on the part of HT and could pay some serious dividends. If we keep 100 players over the course of a year, that's $1,500/mo revenue for HT. Having run small businesses before, that is likely a big chunk of your utility bill each month.
What do you say?
Boo
Way above my 'power' level, I'm just a pudknocker CM, Campaign Manager = person who runs an event in the Special Events Arena.
and .....
Why ask Fuse? He doesn't work for HTC.
There is a training corps in aces High already full of very skilled players.
It's fuZeman
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and .....It's fuZeman
I'M SORRY !!!
I told you it's a blackberry and I have very big fingers !!! :devil
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I'M SORRY !!!
I told you it's a blackberry and I have very big fingers !!! :devil
I'm nit-picky and 1/2 cracking wise.
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I would fly with the my noob icon on all the time.
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I like the idea of it being selectable, I too would fly with it on constantly. :D
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OK, next idea that may come to nothing.
When you first log in the arena message may come up to provide notice. What if that message provided this type of relavent info for the first few months? Just thinking of very easy ways to connect those we may be losing.
Boo