Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Guppy35 on June 06, 2011, 06:43:38 PM
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In an Ideal Aces High World. Additions, subtractions, criticism welcome. Just 'thinking out loud"
-One arena uncapped.
-No ENY, but some sort of numbers balancing system so that the amount of aircraft in flight for all countries is roughly equal. This keeps ENY away, yet allows those who beg to be with their squaddies the chance to BS on tac while waiting for things to adjust so they can up. Maybe use the AI birds developed for CT to fill out the balance issues?
-Strat targets that make heavy bombers more viable and usable in a more ‘realistic’ manner then dropping fighter hangers or dive bombing carriers.
-Tactical targets beyond airfields and towns. Trains, bridges, convoys etc that would make the role of the Fighter Bomber more ‘realistic’, again outside of bombing hangers.
-More complex airfield systems. What I mean is ones where there are multiple VHs, single ‘fighter strips’ away from the main field so that there is more of a chance for defenders to get airborne to counter a strike. More flak and manned flak positions, as well as anti-tank positions. Take the flak positions out of towns. Move them to ring the town. Possibly place an Armory in town where armor is parked and available. Folks yell for cooperation and team work. While this would demand it. Just killing the VH and setting up the vulch pattern would be much more difficult.
Find a way to include more open terrain for tankers and armored ops in support of the ‘war’
-Use the stuff developed with Combat Tour to incorporate missions via the game. For example. AH announces to the Rooks, that at 7PM a mission will launch with B17s escorted by Mustangs and 47s, going deep to Bish HQ. It’s filled with AI birds to start so it’s going either way. But folks can fill spots if they so choose. Obviously the other side is going to see this mob moving and rise to the fight with any luck at all and whether it’s AI or real folks, at least some shooting is going on and bombs dropping. At least for immersion it might feel better. Obviously the plane types would change and the country missions change. It might be AI Mossies with Spitfire escorts, or B25s with P38 escorts, JU88 with 109G6 escorts and so on. Throw one up automatically every hour or half hour, staggered throughout all three countries so that folks are on both ends of that operation. You know the numbers are going to be there, even if AI so folks are hopefully going to get some practice attacking bombers and fighting other fighters. Even dogfighting an AI fighter builds experience for the newbies. If we’re going to have this big map with everyone there, I’d think those CT resources would help give it some focus.
-Consider some sort of layers airfield system too with Heavies further back, Fighters and Fighter Bombers up front and Mediums and fighters in between. Also consider Flak traps and Flak trains in greater numbers.
-Consider some sort of area within the MA that includes a furball spot and tanking spot that gives it some freedom from griefing and base capture, yet keeps those folks as part of the larger social interaction of the MA.
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In an Ideal Aces High World. Additions, subtractions, criticism welcome. Just 'thinking out loud"
-One arena uncapped.
Yes
-No ENY, but some sort of numbers balancing system so that the amount of aircraft in flight for all countries is roughly equal. This keeps ENY away, yet allows those who beg to be with their squaddies the chance to BS on tac while waiting for things to adjust so they can up. Maybe use the AI birds developed for CT to fill out the balance issues?
I don't think there is a way to do that without forcibly changing people's teams for them. The medicine is more harmful than the ailment. I think you'd also be surprised to find that in a one arena set up numbers will be a lot closer to balanced than the current 2 arena system.
-Strat targets that make heavy bombers more viable and usable in a more ‘realistic’ manner then dropping fighter hangers or dive bombing carriers.
Agreed, but how? The only way to do that is to give these targets high value for the war and personal score.
-Tactical targets beyond airfields and towns. Trains, bridges, convoys etc that would make the role of the Fighter Bomber more ‘realistic’, again outside of bombing hangers.
Agreed 100%.
-More complex airfield systems. What I mean is ones where there are multiple VHs, single ‘fighter strips’ away from the main field so that there is more of a chance for defenders to get airborne to counter a strike. More flak and manned flak positions, as well as anti-tank positions. Take the flak positions out of towns. Move them to ring the town. Possibly place an Armory in town where armor is parked and available. Folks yell for cooperation and team work. While this would demand it. Just killing the VH and setting up the vulch pattern would be much more difficult.
Find a way to include more open terrain for tankers and armored ops in support of the ‘war’
Sounds good to me.
-Use the stuff developed with Combat Tour to incorporate missions via the game. For example. AH announces to the Rooks, that at 7PM a mission will launch with B17s escorted by Mustangs and 47s, going deep to Bish HQ. It’s filled with AI birds to start so it’s going either way. But folks can fill spots if they so choose. Obviously the other side is going to see this mob moving and rise to the fight with any luck at all and whether it’s AI or real folks, at least some shooting is going on and bombs dropping. At least for immersion it might feel better. Obviously the plane types would change and the country missions change. It might be AI Mossies with Spitfire escorts, or B25s with P38 escorts, JU88 with 109G6 escorts and so on. Throw one up automatically every hour or half hour, staggered throughout all three countries so that folks are on both ends of that operation. You know the numbers are going to be there, even if AI so folks are hopefully going to get some practice attacking bombers and fighting other fighters. Even dogfighting an AI fighter builds experience for the newbies. If we’re going to have this big map with everyone there, I’d think those CT resources would help give it some focus.
Not sure about this one, I'd say no to AI fighters, and a maybe to AI bombers.
-Consider some sort of layers airfield system too with Heavies further back, Fighters and Fighter Bombers up front and Mediums and fighters in between. Also consider Flak traps and Flak trains in greater numbers.
I disagree. You shouldn't have to fly 150 miles if you want to fly lancasters. And how does Hitech code it to change as the front lines shift? I think you should encourage front line bombing campaigns, not discourage.
-Consider some sort of area within the MA that includes a furball spot and tanking spot that gives it some freedom from griefing and base capture, yet keeps those folks as part of the larger social interaction of the MA.
Sure why not, and that's easy, just make the bases uncapturable surrounded by giant mountains.
I'd personally like to see a zone system again but with that, having a central zone "factory" or some kind of new field-type object that controls supply lines and production to all corresponding bases in that zone. Kind of like the zone base back in the day, but more distinguished on the map. If you own it, your fields replenish the normal amounts of times i.e. 15 min for hangars, 45 minutes for town, etc. If you do not own it, your fields and hangars take a 3-4 times penalty, so towns are down for 2:15, hangars down for 45 minutes. Maybe have 5-6 bases per "factory". This would create A LOT of good fights for furballers and base takers alike.
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-1000
I say NO to anything AI....
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+F3 mode in Il2 :D
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I think this was brought up in another thread, and is in my opinion key: Move the fight away from air fields. Maybe moving the towns 6-10 miles away will suffice, but something to drag the initial fight away from the uppers. I know it will probably degenerate to capping the field at some point, and people will actively seek the runways regardless of tactical advantage, but the longer the fight is away from it the better.
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-1000
I say NO to anything AI....
The main reason I'm suggesting it, having flown wing on an AI bird one time way back when they were testing them in the MA, is to be a side balancer. Say it's one of the Mega squad gathering nights and the numbers are way off. To give me a chance to fight the horde, I'd take an AI wingman to none at all, if for no other reason then getting in the way of the horde. Depending on how HTC set them up, they were nasty dogfighters too.
It would be a non factor if the numbers were balanced. Hopefully never needed, but we've all been there for those nights where the horde is killing all the fun for everyone else.
And if it helped kill the never ending ENY whines, I don't see how it could be a bad thing
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The main reason I'm suggesting it, having flown wing on an AI bird one time way back when they were testing them in the MA, is to be a side balancer. Say it's one of the Mega squad gathering nights and the numbers are way off. To give me a chance to fight the horde, I'd take an AI wingman to none at all, if for no other reason then getting in the way of the horde. Depending on how HTC set them up, they were nasty dogfighters too.
It would be a non factor if the numbers were balanced. Hopefully never needed, but we've all been there for those nights where the horde is killing all the fun for everyone else.
And if it helped kill the never ending ENY whines, I don't see how it could be a bad thing
I bet the AI birds would be more skilled than 90% of the population though. :lol
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I bet the AI birds would be more skilled than 90% of the population though. :lol
The one I followed into a fight, that day HTC had an AI Spit flying, sure seemed to clean house. I couldn't stay with him :)
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I like a lot of this, but one thing not addressed is the off-hours experience. I want one huge map. I want strats that mean something. I would like to see some variation in airfields so that it isn't so easy to bomb them closed (and this coming from someone who regularly bombs them closed). AI planes I would like to see in action myself before commenting on whether it would be good for the MA, but the idea of having AI buffs (and transports) flying around as targets sounds interesting. AI fighters might be interesting as well, I just want to fight a few to see how they do - the last thing the game needs is some kind of AI Spit that can make maneuvers impossible for any human pilot.
I was trying to think up a way to have a single large map that would still be playable (and fun) for the off-hours players who have very limited numbers. The only think I can think of is to not have every airfield open all the time - maybe what needs to happen is that some zones get closed in off-hours. Let players land and rearm at a "closed" field, but don't let them up from there. Programming the logic as to which fields remain open might be tricky - you will need 3 "fronts" at all times (bish-rook, bish-knight, knight-rook), and you will want to pick fields relatively close together in the off hours so that a smaller number of players can still find action. I'm not sure what "shape" this map should be given that we will need water areas for CVs as well as large numbers of land bases and strats.
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+ F3 mode Il2 :D
LMAO, post of the year material!!! :rofl
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-No ENY, but some sort of numbers balancing system so that the amount of aircraft in flight for all countries is roughly equal. This keeps ENY away, yet allows those who beg to be with their squaddies the chance to BS on tac while waiting for things to adjust so they can up.
Wouldn't it be better to be able to a P-40B mission with your squaddies than not up at all?
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i say get rid of the MA and have the AvA arena take there places.
best maps. best scenarios.best settings(imo)
:salute
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Wouldn't it be better to be able to a P-40B mission with your squaddies than not up at all?
For many of us it would. Flying a 38G, ENY never bothers me :) But those aren't the folks grumbling. That was why I was suggesting the CT AI birds to keep it balanced.
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There was a map for furballs, it was called fighter town...although htc never plays it anymore.-
-BigBOBCH
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-Strat targets that make heavy bombers more viable and usable in a more ‘realistic’ manner then dropping fighter hangers or dive bombing carriers.
Agreed, but how? The only way to do that is to give these targets high value for the war and personal score.
High value for war and score is a good way. How about this: Apart from the purely material influence of city & factories on field supplies, and another thing: Country Morale. Enemy capitals had been bombed in history not only to destroy factories and infrastructure, but also because they are a symbol.
In game terms: Tie the number of fields captured requirement to the status of the city. Currently you need 20% of all bases, a few tours back the requirement was 40% Now make it so that if
City at 100% - 40% fields required
City at 75% - 35% fields required
City at 50% - 30% fields required
City at 25% - 25% fields required
City at 0% - 20% fields required.
As the city buildings have a downtime of 3 hours, you don't have to wait until almost to the end to bomb the city, players can attack the city at any time hoping it will make a difference later.
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I had an idea on a change to the actual "capture the base" style of gameplay, but I never finished my idea in my head so don't think I ever posted, but basically it was similar to...
Bring back the "mini" strats, but do not remove the large one. Make the mini-strats capturable. Those mini-strats are tied to 3-4 bases in their close proximity, and have VH capabilities spawning to the surrounding Air-Bases, and 4 radar towers. Make the Mini-strats resupply an item every run (for instance, first rebuilding a few town buildings, then rebuilding hangars, then ack), and make the runs pretty close together, like 5 minutes. However, the strats only supply bases that are the same country as the strat itself. Since a strat would be somewhat "central" to multiple bases, it means a team would either have to fly behind enemy airfields to hit the strat first, or decide to try to take an airfield that is getting resupplied and rebuilt pretty quickly. It also would make some ground targets (strats) a different importance than others (airfields).
There was more to the concept, but as I said, I don't believe I finished fleshing it out enough to post it.
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Allow troops to do damage! Lol
Changeup
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High value for war and score is a good way. How about this: Apart from the purely material influence of city & factories on field supplies, and another thing: Country Morale. Enemy capitals had been bombed in history not only to destroy factories and infrastructure, but also because they are a symbol.
In game terms: Tie the number of fields captured requirement to the status of the city. Currently you need 20% of all bases, a few tours back the requirement was 40% Now make it so that if
City at 100% - 40% fields required
City at 75% - 35% fields required
City at 50% - 30% fields required
City at 25% - 25% fields required
City at 0% - 20% fields required.
As the city buildings have a downtime of 3 hours, you don't have to wait until almost to the end to bomb the city, players can attack the city at any time hoping it will make a difference later.
Of all the ideas I've seen for making strats count, this one is the first I've liked. It makes them worth hitting and defending, but without impacting the gameplay of people on the losing side just logging on.
Wiley.
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+F3 mode in Il2 :D
:rofl
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I like the ideas you posted. I think that AI Missions would be good, maybe every hour to 2 hours instead of 30 minutes.
No ENY, but some sort of numbers balancing system so that the amount of aircraft in flight for all countries is roughly equal. This keeps ENY away, yet allows those who beg to be with their squaddies the chance to BS on tac while waiting for things to adjust so they can up. Maybe use the AI birds developed for CT to fill out the balance issues?
I think a simple time limit to change countries might be good. Lets say it takes 1 hour max to switch teams after changing teams? However if there are 150 bish, 125 knights and 90 rooks. You can switch from Bish to rook after 15 minutes, or knight to rook in 30 minutes. The inverse being it takes 1 hour to switch from rook to bish, and 45 minutes to switch from rook to knight.
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way to many whines. the game is fine because most all ideas have been thought about and dealt with by HTC.
In a perfect world everyone gets exactly what they want when they want.
We can not always get what we want but,.....
In aces high the planes always fly, and the guns always shoot.
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way to many whines. the game is fine because most all ideas have been thought about and dealt with by HTC.
In a perfect world everyone gets exactly what they want when they want.
We can not always get what we want but,.....
In aces high the planes always fly, and the guns always shoot.
Never attempt to quash ideas. There will alway be one that comes along new and possibly better.
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Guppy I don't like your ideas. They would move the game to the point of stalemate. Don't forget that while adding more FHs in various spots might be more "realistic" but the base layout and the gameplay mechanism (base capture) are gameplay balance issues, not realism issues.
Doing what you suggest favors defenders against attackers every time, making it harder and harder to take fields. Don't forget the only reason we have flags now is because the new town layout was too hard to capture fields with!
Now Lusche has a very interesting idea. I like that! Something along those lines would give you a reason to down the HQ. Perhaps remove the "all radar goes down" bit and make it this "morale" ratio instead. Also remove resupply of "morale," and have it return at a fixed rate of rebuilt (like a hangar?)
Also, I would like to see 1 of 2 things. Keep the mega strats and somehow tie them in to the big picture, but return zone strats. Either use 10 or 15 "mega" strats across these large-size AH maps (they have more than enough space for them!) and link them into zones, or return the previous individual strats. Or find a "middle-strat" new option halfway between both extremes. This would bring the war to a front, rather than to just a field on that front.
With the above suggestion (return of zones) you might just as well make the "mega strat" tied into this morale. The more it's hit the less the base capture ratio has to be.
OR
Change it so that TROOPS in the zone don't affect resupply, but that the MEGAstrat affects resupply.
Mega city: resupply outlying megastrats around it
Mega AAA: resupply all zone AAAs
Mega troops: resupply all zone troops.
So if you bomb a zone strat, it will resupply. You bomb the zone strat AND the mega strat of the same type it takes longer. You bomb the zone strat, mega strat of same type, and mega city, it takes longer still! This is nothing new and you can do it already if you know the exact order to hit the strats, I'm simply suggesting a more logical and helpful interaction between them all (and by extension suggesting zones be tied to the mega strat)
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Now Lusche has a very interesting idea. I like that! Something along those lines would give you a reason to down the HQ. Perhaps remove the "all radar goes down" bit and make it this "morale" ratio instead. Also remove resupply of "morale," and have it return at a fixed rate of rebuilt (like a hangar?)
I was having the city in mind, not the HQ.
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Ah, my mistake! :)
I still like it, or some variation of it :aok
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In game terms: Tie the number of fields captured requirement to the status of the city. Currently you need 20% of all bases, a few tours back the requirement was 40% Now make it so that if
City at 100% - 40% fields required
City at 75% - 35% fields required
City at 50% - 30% fields required
City at 25% - 25% fields required
City at 0% - 20% fields required.
What if a side has 30% of the fields with the City 100% up. Then they mass bomb the City down to 50%...do they automatically win the war because the field requirement is now 30%?
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What if a side has 30% of the fields with the City 100% up. Then they mass bomb the City down to 50%...do they automatically win the war because the field requirement is now 30%?
Yes. :)
So at that point you even have an option: Try to capture a few more bases... or do one big raid on the city. The city is only a single target... but bases are easier to grab NOE style.
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AI fighters even set on the lowest, dumbest setting would still shoot down roughly 80% of the pilots in AH in a 1 on 1. Ruuunnnn people ruuuunnnnn!
:bolt:
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The AI cheat. Anybody that's flown against them in the same plane knows this. Even if you're in a superior plane they defy the game physics somehow and turn tighter, float at slower speeds without stalling out (seriously, I had a mission with 190s where I was trying to stay in formation with other 190s... They were doing 100mph level, following their waypoints. I had to pop 2 to 3 notches of flaps and really be careful to stay that slow, but they were making level turns quite easily.
AI is never the answer for AH woes IMO.
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The AI cheat. Anybody that's flown against them in the same plane knows this. Even if you're in a superior plane they defy the game physics somehow and turn tighter, float at slower speeds without stalling out (seriously, I had a mission with 190s where I was trying to stay in formation with other 190s... They were doing 100mph level, following their waypoints. I had to pop 2 to 3 notches of flaps and really be careful to stay that slow, but they were making level turns quite easily.
I seem to recall besting the AI fairly easily in less capable planes. Have you used the Mission editor or tried to fly against AI? Also, AI bombers would not be that bad
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The AI cheat. Anybody that's flown against them in the same plane knows this. Even if you're in a superior plane they defy the game physics somehow and turn tighter, float at slower speeds without stalling out (seriously, I had a mission with 190s where I was trying to stay in formation with other 190s... They were doing 100mph level, following their waypoints. I had to pop 2 to 3 notches of flaps and really be careful to stay that slow, but they were making level turns quite easily.
AI is never the answer for AH woes IMO.
:headscratch:
I dont know dood...I would fly against any of them they are quite easy to kill...hell in one of rangers mission's I fly the K4 against 10 51's and can kill every one of them.
no frigging way I could do that in the MA.
I think your just not that good of a fighter pie-leet :neener:
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Would be cool if some fields were surrounded by unpassable rivers / gorges and a few bridges.. bridges that you could bomb down to stop the vehicles from crossing. Then there could be pioneer vehicles to rebuild bridges.. :)
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the thing with AI planes is people would just farm on them,or u wouldnt get any perks and it would be pointless other then 1)to save your self from being shot down(how good can an AI plane be anyway) or 2)to stop your base from being bombed
IMO people would be tired of killing AI planes very quick
EVERYTHING else is exactly what i want,especialy the strats minus the AI stuff.in WW2 most bombing consisted of bombing factories.ball bearing,oil,metal,and airplane industries.strats need a real purpose in the game
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-1000
I say NO to anything AI....
ditto
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AI ? bridges? Town % ?
Heck I thought we were talking about a single arena............ Wish Granted!
Peace Out
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High value for war and score is a good way. How about this: Apart from the purely material influence of city & factories on field supplies, and another thing: Country Morale. Enemy capitals had been bombed in history not only to destroy factories and infrastructure, but also because they are a symbol.
if ENY is removed due to uneven sides maybe Country Morale could be the only thing to raise ENY?
i dunno just a thought
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I wonder if HTC has ever thought about AI GVs? Some semi random AI armor assaults might be interesting.
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the thing with AI planes is people would just farm on them,or u wouldnt get any perks and it would be pointless other then 1)to save your self from being shot down(how good can an AI plane be anyway) or 2)to stop your base from being bombed
IMO people would be tired of killing AI planes very quick
EVERYTHING else is exactly what i want,especialy the strats minus the AI stuff.in WW2 most bombing consisted of bombing factories.ball bearing,oil,metal,and airplane industries.strats need a real purpose in the game
The AI stuff is a non factor unless the balance in numbers goes totally out of whack. That's all I'm suggesting. If there are 120 Bish, 60 Rook and 70 Knit, it would populate the lower numbers countries just to get in the way of the horde. If the numbers are even, they don't exist.
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The AI stuff is a non factor unless the balance in numbers goes totally out of whack. That's all I'm suggesting. If there are 120 Bish, 60 Rook and 70 Knit, it would populate the lower numbers countries just to get in the way of the horde. If the numbers are even, they don't exist.
yes but would killing the AI planes even be scored?or would they just be dumb airplanes flying around just to watch
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I think something along the lines of the current ENY system is just the ticket, none of the wait-to-fly stuff would be infuriating and the AI complicated and possibly also infuriating. For one thing, it gets non-LW uberplanes into the sky from time to time, an important consideration given that the EW and MW are essentially ghost towns. I think maybe the perk rewards for flying and killing on the low number side needs to be increased. That would offer a carrot as well as a stick.
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I think something along the lines of the current ENY system is just the ticket, none of the wait-to-fly stuff would be infuriating and the AI complicated and possibly also infuriating. For one thing, it gets non-LW uberplanes into the sky from time to time, an important consideration given that the EW and MW are essentially ghost towns. I think maybe the perk rewards for flying and killing on the low number side needs to be increased. That would offer a carrot as well as a stick.
I was trying to find a way around the never ending ENY whines :)
As for the difficulty of AI planes, that's up to HTC. The one I followed was just about invincible, but Hitech had it set to do things the rest of us couldn't that day I think.
As for scoring, I could care less. I don't look, don't think about it. Don't care about perks either. 38Gs seem to be unlimited for me in Latewar so it's a non factor. When I get time to fly, I just want to fight, not worry about what my stats/score etc says. :)
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I was trying to find a way around the never ending ENY whines :)
As for the difficulty of AI planes, that's up to HTC. The one I followed was just about invincible, but Hitech had it set to do things the rest of us couldn't that day I think.
As for scoring, I could care less. I don't look, don't think about it. Don't care about perks either. 38Gs seem to be unlimited for me in Latewar so it's a non factor. When I get time to fly, I just want to fight, not worry about what my stats/score etc says. :)
IMO, AIs have no place in a MMO flight sim, except *possibly*, just *possibly*, to fill up the bomber slots in scenarios.
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IMO, AIs have no place in a MMO flight sim, except *possibly*, just *possibly*, to fill up the bomber slots in scenarios.
You wouldn't have flown Combat Tour if it had been completed?
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+F3 mode in Il2 :D
pls no! :O