Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: LThunderpocket on June 09, 2011, 08:39:00 PM

Title: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 09, 2011, 08:39:00 PM
i am proposing a new kill/assist system.the reason is,i have shot down many planes seemingly by myself and gotten assist for them.

yesterday-7 assists 0 kills in 1 sortie.WTF lol

i might be wrong on the current way a kill is given to someone but isnt it whoever does the first damage to enemy plane (shoots off a part,causes oil/fuel leak)so technically u can shoot someones aileron off and leave it for someone to finish it off and u still get the kill.not very fair it seems to me.

on other instances i have shot off entire wings,blown up,cut in half enemy planes and gotten assists.

*my idea*

each airplane part shot off will be scored. ex. aileron=50,elevator,flap=60,oil leak=100,fuel leak=110,pilot wound=125,half wing=125,full wing=170,vert stab=170,tail=190,fire=500,explosion=500


so say a player shoots off a 109s aileron and a flap.thats 110 points of damage done.another player comes along and shoots off half of the wing.player #2 would be credited with the kill for doing more damage.so on so fourth.

this is a sure way to know if its your kill.it might stop people from shooting off a flap or aileron and simply flying away knowing he will evenutally get the kill.


just an idea
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: SlapShot on June 09, 2011, 09:23:46 PM
The current system works just fine ... It's whoever does the most damage up till a catastrophic failure or pilot death.

You may think you shot the wing off a plane that I just mugged, but it was just 1 or 2 .50 cal bullets from your guns that caused the wing to fall off ... Sooooooo, because I really did the most damage, I get the kill and you get the assist.

7 assist with 0 kills tells me that you pretty much run around shooting up everyone elses sloppy seconds.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: gyrene81 on June 09, 2011, 09:36:09 PM
The current system works just fine ... It's whoever does the most damage up till a catastrophic failure or pilot death.
beat me to it slapshot...tried to do a search and get the exact verbiage htc used but no dice.  :aok



7 assist with 0 kills tells me that you pretty much run around shooting up everyone elses sloppy seconds.
just  :rofl ...
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: DaHand on June 09, 2011, 09:37:45 PM
The trainer page says it's overall damage to the plane.  I've been assuming, with assists, that I just didnt land enough hits compared to the guy before me.

That's how it works right now right?

Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 09, 2011, 09:38:10 PM
The current system works just fine ... It's whoever does the most damage up till a catastrophic failure or pilot death.

You may think you shot the wing off a plane that I just mugged, but it was just 1 or 2 .50 cal bullets from your guns that caused the wing to fall off ... Sooooooo, because I really did the most damage, I get the kill and you get the assist.

7 assist with 0 kills tells me that you pretty much run around shooting up everyone elses sloppy seconds.

or when i shoot a plane and it explodes and i get a nice assist
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Lusche on June 09, 2011, 09:44:24 PM
The trainer page says it's overall damage to the plane.  I've been assuming, with assists, that I just didnt land enough hits compared to the guy before me.

That's how it works right now right?


Pure overall damage is the old system, until a few update's ago. But it is not really wrong either, as it's still about who did the most damage until some catastrophic damage happened. The only change is that now you can't shoot wingless planes falling down hoping to steal the kill.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: MachFly on June 10, 2011, 12:10:54 AM
The current system works just fine.

Who even gave the aircraft the most damage gets the kill, even if nothing falls off. Also I noticed that you get a lot more assists with canons, so I think the amount of let you put into the aircraft counts as well. After a major part falls off and the airplane is un-flyable what ever damage the aircraft revives does not register and you don't even get an assist.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Rob52240 on June 10, 2011, 02:46:09 AM
Quit GB'ing then :old:
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: coombz on June 10, 2011, 04:26:39 AM
The current system works just fine
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: ink on June 10, 2011, 07:04:03 AM
ya if you get 7 asst, and no kills...well get out of the hoard  :aok
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 10, 2011, 07:45:11 AM
ya if you get 7 asst, and no kills...well get out of the hoard  :aok

i was in a horde of enemy planes
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: ink on June 10, 2011, 07:49:54 AM
i was in a horde of enemy planes

not possible.

you only get assists if someone else did the damage to nme con...so if you were in a red hoard and killing planes you would be getting kills not assists.

whats you ingame name?

lets see some film of this.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: gyrene81 on June 10, 2011, 07:57:21 AM
i was in a horde of enemy planes
:lol   uh huh...that's all i got to say bout that

ink, he's vrecon in game...  :rofl
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: SlapShot on June 10, 2011, 08:00:29 AM
or when i shoot a plane and it explodes and i get a nice assist

and your point is ?
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: ink on June 10, 2011, 08:01:48 AM
:lol   uh huh...that's all i got to say bout that

ink, he's vrecon in game...  :rofl

 :rofl

thats funny right there...not that I got a problem with the V guys, they can play how ever they like, but I haven't ever seen them fly against a hoard of red.

 :rofl
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: tf15pin on June 10, 2011, 08:42:21 AM
What the game classifies as critical damage is also kind of fuzzy. Some types of damage are critical enough that they will give you the kill while the plane is still flyable. Examples are Oil hits and Pilot wounds. Something in this category that will not give you the kill is a radiator hit. The same thing goes for GVs; if you turret the guy you will not get a kill but if you take his engine out you will get the kill.

When fur-balling I select targets by those assumptions. If I give a guy an oil leak I let him go for some other guy to waste ammo on and get me a kill. If he has a radiator hit I continue to pursue him. With GVs it is a bit more gamey but when spawn camping I will shoot for the engine first. Most of the time the enemy doesn't explode but you will get the kill when someone else finishes him off.

Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Vinkman on June 10, 2011, 08:48:57 AM

Pure overall damage is the old system, until a few update's ago. But it is not really wrong either, as it's still about who did the most damage until some catastrophic damage happened. The only change is that now you can't shoot wingless planes falling down hoping to steal the kill.

I may be wrong, perhaps Lusche or HiTech you can clarify, but I think the old system was, as you stated, who did the most damage. When they made the change, I thought they more heavily weighted the first damage to reduce kill stealing.

I like the current system as well because often the first damage like knocking off and elevator, generating a pilot wound, radiator, or oil leak is often what leads to teh bandit dying.  The down side is that BnZ ponies fly around a furball marking bandits like a dog staking out his territory, generating lots of kills that were actually finished off by other pile-its. But overall it's an improvement over the old system.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: SlapShot on June 10, 2011, 09:21:42 AM
In the AH world, if I understood correctly, catastrophic failure means that the plane is no longer flyable ... examples: total loss of one/two wings, total loss of the empennage. Once a plane loses a wing (or 2),  damage calculations against that plane are halted (to stop kill stealing) and whoever DID THE MOST DAMAGE, up to that point is awarded the kill.

Many times I have worked an opponent over real good during a protracted fight, only to have Johnny Hero dive in and help me pick the guy off my 12 o'clock and when the kill is awarded to me, I hear on local vox ... "No friggin' way was that an assist ... I was robbed" ...  :rofl
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Lusche on June 10, 2011, 10:38:14 AM
In the AH world, if I understood correctly, catastrophic failure means that the plane is no longer flyable ... examples: total loss of one/two wings, total loss of the empennage. Once a plane loses a wing (or 2),  damage calculations against that plane are halted (to stop kill stealing) and whoever DID THE MOST DAMAGE, up to that point is awarded the kill.


That's how it is :)
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Tigger29 on June 11, 2011, 12:28:02 AM
OK A Few Scenarios here:

To simplify things we'll say that all planes use the same exact ammo.

SCENARIO 1:
Planes A and B are diving on an enemy plane.
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds but doing no actual "damage" to the plane.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 19 rounds and ripping off the right wing.
Plane A is awarded the kill because it put more "lead" into the enemy.

SCENARIO 2:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds and ripping off its right wing.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 50 rounds as it is spiraling down out of control.
Plane A is awarded the kill because the enemy plane stopped registering hits once its wing was destroyed.

SCENARIO 3:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds and ripping off its elevators.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 30 rounds but doing no further significant damage.
Enemy plane crashes while trying to land.
Plane B is awarded the kill because he put more "lead" into the enemy and the enemy plane was not "critically" damaged once its elevators were destroyed.

SCENARIO 4:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds but doing no actual "damage" to the airplane.
Plane B shoots 50 rounds at the enemy plane.  5 hit the right wing ripping it off and then the other 45 hit the fuselage.
Plane A is awarded the kill because the enemy stopped registering hits once its wing was destroyed.



It has nothing to do with who hit the plane first or who broke the most pieces off of the plane.  I understand that it's very annoying to get into a fight and blow up the plane only to get an assist, but that's the way the cookie crumbles!
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 11, 2011, 12:39:56 AM
OK A Few Scenarios here:

To simplify things we'll say that all planes use the same exact ammo.

SCENARIO 1:
Planes A and B are diving on an enemy plane.
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds but doing no actual "damage" to the plane.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 19 rounds and ripping off the right wing.
Plane A is awarded the kill because it put more "lead" into the enemy.

SCENARIO 2:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds and ripping off its right wing.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 50 rounds as it is spiraling down out of control.
Plane A is awarded the kill because the enemy plane stopped registering hits once its wing was destroyed.

SCENARIO 3:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds and ripping off its elevators.
Plane B shoots at the enemy hitting it with 30 rounds but doing no further significant damage.
Enemy plane crashes while trying to land.
Plane B is awarded the kill because he put more "lead" into the enemy and the enemy plane was not "critically" damaged once its elevators were destroyed.

SCENARIO 4:
Plane A shoots at the enemy hitting it with 20 rounds but doing no actual "damage" to the airplane.
Plane B shoots 50 rounds at the enemy plane.  5 hit the right wing ripping it off and then the other 45 hit the fuselage.
Plane A is awarded the kill because the enemy stopped registering hits once its wing was destroyed.



It has nothing to do with who hit the plane first or who broke the most pieces off of the plane.  I understand that it's very annoying to get into a fight and blow up the plane only to get an assist, but that's the way the cookie crumbles!

ok thanks for clarifying it.i only stated what i thought i knew about how the current system works.but this is not a question on how it works,its more of a new system to judge kills/assists.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: SlapShot on June 11, 2011, 08:25:48 AM
Your suggestion on a new system was based on you not knowing the current system. The current system works just fine ... no need to change it.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Tigger29 on June 11, 2011, 05:06:56 PM
Your suggestion on a new system was based on you not knowing the current system. The current system works just fine ... no need to change it.

Exactly.. it's not exactly perfect but I believe it's as close as it can be without having perfect internet conditions all the time...
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 11, 2011, 06:09:28 PM
Your suggestion on a new system was based on you not knowing the current system. The current system works just fine ... no need to change it.

it was not based on not knowing it.lol..it is based on whoever does more damage to the plane.but if you dont like it,good for you
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Karnak on June 11, 2011, 07:33:43 PM
it was not based on not knowing it.lol..it is based on whoever does more damage to the plane.but if you dont like it,good for you
It used to be simply whoever did the most damage.  Bottom feeders would chase a wreck down, shooting at it so they could get a "kill".

Chuck Yeager socked another P-51 pilot in the face for doing that in reality.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: LThunderpocket on June 11, 2011, 07:52:56 PM
It used to be simply whoever did the most damage.  Bottom feeders would chase a wreck down, shooting at it so they could get a "kill".

Chuck Yeager socked another P-51 pilot in the face for doing that in reality.

it would still keep the idea where if a wing is shot off its over,no more damage can be done to the plane.credited to whoever shot the wing off.or,if someone shoots an elevator,flap,oil leak,and PW.then someone coms along and shoots the wing off.it still goes to the guy who shot off the rest of the parts because he did more damage "points"
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: BERN1 on June 11, 2011, 08:33:26 PM
It used to be simply whoever did the most damage.  Bottom feeders would chase a wreck down, shooting at it so they could get a "kill".

Chuck Yeager socked another P-51 pilot in the face for doing that in reality.
I think you were thinkin about Pappy Boyington?? I never heard any stories of Chuck Yeager punching anybody let alone a fellow p-51 pilot,in fact in his autobiography he says that he never got into fights
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Karnak on June 11, 2011, 09:07:07 PM
I think you were thinkin about Pappy Boyington?? I never heard any stories of Chuck Yeager punching anybody let alone a fellow p-51 pilot,in fact in his autobiography he says that he never got into fights
Could be.  I'll try to find the reference when I get home.  Thought it was Yeager, but....
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: BERN1 on June 11, 2011, 09:39:57 PM
sorry to question it,but Chuck Yeager is my hero, I have his autobiography and a few books on Boyington  and the real story of VMF 214, that story sounds like Pappy to me.Chuck did talk about having guns on his p-39, set up to fire single rounds he would hunt elk with it,this was when he was training  new pilots  I think..hmmm I gott read his autobiography again,for the fourth time
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 12, 2011, 09:38:22 AM

7 assist with 0 kills tells me that you pretty much run around shooting up everyone elses sloppy seconds.

It's an improvement.  His previous kills were all vulches of a 2nd account.

ack-ack
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: SlapShot on June 12, 2011, 09:50:13 AM
it was not based on not knowing it.lol..it is based on whoever does more damage to the plane.but if you dont like it,good for you

Did you not say ...

i might be wrong on the current way a kill is given to someone but isnt it whoever does the first damage to enemy plane (shoots off a part,causes oil/fuel leak)so technically u can shoot someones aileron off and leave it for someone to finish it off and u still get the kill.not very fair it seems to me.

That would lead one, at least me, to believe that you didn't really know how the current system works.

You then go on to describe a system, based on damage, that is far less granular than the current system that bases a kill on total damage. Your system would be crediting kills to people who don't deserve the kill.

I could shoot up an opponents wing and be 1 bullet away from taking it off ... you could swoop in and deliver that 1 bullet, before I do, and you would be credited with taking the wing off ? ... and then claim the kill ... not good. With the current system, I would be given the credit for the kill and rightfully so.
Title: Re: new kill/assist system
Post by: Letalis on June 14, 2011, 02:33:13 AM
I think the moral here is to give your opponent just a little more of the sparkly treatment...because he's worth it.  :devil