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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: The Jekyll on June 16, 2011, 08:46:34 PM

Title: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 16, 2011, 08:46:34 PM
Ok, so as it would seem I have recently been pegged as a spy, cheat, and some other not so flattering descriptions. All of this because of the Dar/Radar thingy!  It seems a certain squad has decided that the shoe fits and I must wear it. Foul I cry, foul.

Now for the important stuff and that is understanding the Dar/Radar. You see I, as well as others, have noticed that there are still a number of people, and ahem,,,,squads, who still fail to grasp the true workings on this thing. I am not the expert and hopefully those who are will take a moment to make corrections where necessary.

So there we were, flying around looking for trouble when alas the radar at a vbase looked like it ad contracted a sudden case of the measles. What looked like 15 little red dots were making their way NOE to the Vbase under hope no one would notice. But alas as I watched the text buffer I saw people on country alerting to the NOE and I did as well. I made the mistake of putting it on 200 which is why I was named the cheat and spy, otherwise how could I know there was a mission inbound they claimed.

Well, many of us have seen this before and apparently there are many who still do not understand so lets clarify the height/alt restrictions.  In this case folks there are three we need to worry about. One as it relates to the DAR which is 500ft AGL, one as it relates to the Radar which is 65ft AGL, and the last as it relates to Radar range which is 0 AGL. So what will happen if you break any of these alt restrictions inbound to a base. Well one or a combination of three things.

One the base will flash indicating that you are above 0ft AGL and inside the radar RANGE which alerts to an enemy located somewhere withing the range of the radar itself.

Two, a corresponding DAR will indicate enemy presence of all planes above 500ft AGL. This DAR will corresponde to the number of enemy planes above the 500 ft alt. (note, it will not show YOUR plane to you)

And the third, this one is the most elusive for some folks, if you are above the 65ft AGL line you will show as a red dot on any radar range marker so long as the radar has not been destroyed.  You see, this is the trick. So many still believe that if they are below the 500 ft AGL they will NOT show a dot on enemy radar; this is wrong. You will not show as a DAR bar, but the radar will still flash and you will still show as a red dot.

  So a hint for those base capture squads out there. If you truly want to NOE but do not want to worry about the red dots showing up, it might be a good idea to send someone ahead of you to destroy the radar thus leaving only the flashing circle without a DAR bar for your NOE mission.

AS for all those nice names a few of you decided to PM me and the tags as cheat and spy, well learn how to read the Readme files that come with the patches, it may help you understand how to better play the game.   :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 16, 2011, 09:49:33 PM
A lot of guys are just paranoid about spies.  I suggest posting such intel on your own country channel instead of 200 for 2 reasons.

1.  200 goes to all countries, they may have assumed you were communicating from the country who was doing the NOE raid.
2.  I hate hearing about what's being said on channel 200 from my squad.

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 16, 2011, 10:03:43 PM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/bligar.gif)
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Assi29 on June 16, 2011, 11:20:35 PM
A lot of guys are just paranoid about spies.  I suggest posting such intel on your own country channel instead of 200 for 2 reasons.

1.  200 goes to all countries, they may have assumed you were communicating from the country who was doing the NOE raid.
2.  I hate hearing about what's being said on channel 200 from my squad.



Your squad is always telling us on 200 how they don't tune into 200.   :headscratch:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 12:03:32 AM
Tell them they're not supposed to be on 200.  Because they're not supposed to be on 200 and they're NOT SUPPOSED to talk about whats being said on 200.

Feel free to remind them of this.  You can even threaten to tell on them to vDALLAS.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: M0nkey_Man on June 17, 2011, 12:38:39 AM
oh god, not dallas :uhoh :bolt:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 02:09:23 AM
Trust me, the Devil's Brigade command staff does not want our guys monkeying around on channel 200 and if a squad member is being a love muffin on 200, we definitely want to know about it so we can put a stop to it.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: clerick on June 17, 2011, 02:17:05 AM
Trust me, the Devil's Brigade command staff does not want our guys monkeying around on channel 200 and if a squad member is being a love muffin on 200, we definitely want to know about it so we can put a stop to it.

The number of vGUYS on 200 is nuts.  And who tells on Dallas when he's being a "love muffin" via PM?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Guppy35 on June 17, 2011, 02:23:20 AM
Trust me, the Devil's Brigade command staff does not want our guys monkeying around on channel 200 and if a squad member is being a love muffin on 200, we definitely want to know about it so we can put a stop to it.

Command Staff?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 02:24:05 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: oTRALFZo on June 17, 2011, 02:29:34 AM
The funniest I've seen 200 light up is when a horde was screaming that DMGOD was being told goon positions from a spy that was relating the cordinates with him  :rofl

Jeykle, You dont have to go so far to explain every little detail. Dont you understand by now that its not their fault if they fail? Apparantly noone is supposed to loose in this game, and we have nothing but winners.

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 02:41:08 AM
Perhaps DMGOD is just a good player?????

He's slaughtered my bellybutton in sequential goons more than once.  I think he just picks good huntin spots.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: oTRALFZo on June 17, 2011, 02:51:10 AM
Command Staff?

2 threads in the same week pointing this out :noid

Im waiting for the day I log on to having to change my name to

++__VV 45 ~~~~TRALFAZ~~~45VV__++
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 03:11:20 AM
is there something wrong about having a command staff in a squad?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: BigR on June 17, 2011, 03:44:41 AM
is there something wrong about having a command staff in a squad?

Nothing at all!...someone has to tell the horde where to go!  vDallas is a great leader. I think he is the top PM'er in the entire game. Where does he find the time to plan such complex missions and carry them out with such precision while simultaneously using PM's to engage in psychological warfare with his enemies?? AMAZING.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: oTRALFZo on June 17, 2011, 03:54:21 AM
is there something wrong about having a command staff in a squad?

Not at all. Especially in a squad. People enjoy that kind of structure and its important to keep interest up to keep this game alive.

My statement is poking fun at Guppy's remark because if  some players choose to be developed under this type of structure, they tend to think that everyone else should or that they are "better" than this person. And lately this has been a current trend in the MAs that if everyone is not on the same page, they are scum.

Perfect example: I logged on for just a very quick sortie or 2. When I got to an unfreindly feild that had a couple of cons upping from the runway, there was a freindly at the spawn in a M3 and had asked me to take down a few guns in town so he can get the capture. Sorry but at the time, I just didnt feel like getting my arse handed to me by computer guns and my time was limited to be wasted. But I was berrated because I wanted to have my own fun.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: mbailey on June 17, 2011, 04:07:50 AM
(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c62/Masherbrum/bligar.gif)
:rofl  :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 17, 2011, 07:22:56 AM


 :noid



200 just doesn't go well for me. Think I will go back to the old channel 19!
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Torcher on June 17, 2011, 08:41:42 AM
When I want whiny, harassing name-calling, I just talk to the ex-wife. :furious

200 >>> detuned. :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 17, 2011, 08:43:22 AM

Back to the subject matter, fellas.

I too come across a good number of players who do not know how this concept works.  I wish there was a way to see the server settings, an arena message would be perfect.

The DAR-BAR setting is at 500 ft above the terrain (I thought it was 250ft, but regardless).  That effects everything ABOVE that altitude regardless of where you are at on the map.

The RADAR [ring] setting is at 65ft.  If the radar has not been destroyed then everything above 65ft can been seen as a red dot.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: daddog on June 17, 2011, 09:01:50 AM
Quote
Ok, so as it would seem I have recently been pegged as a spy, cheat, and some other not so flattering descriptions. All of this because of the Dar/Radar thingy!  It seems a certain squad has decided that the shoe fits and I must wear it. Foul I cry, foul.
One of the first steps to enjoying Aces High for years is to not care about what other squads think of you, but concern yourself with what your squad/friends think of you.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Shuffler on June 17, 2011, 10:07:44 AM
Please report this to the Command Staff as soon as possible.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 17, 2011, 10:50:00 AM
Please report this to the Command Staff as soon as possible.


Last I heard the G3 Staff were still working on mimeograph machines and typewriters, I think they are a little overwhelmed.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 17, 2011, 10:52:14 AM
One of the first steps to enjoying Aces High for years is to not care about what other squads think of you, but concern yourself with what your squad/friends think of you.

I thought the subtle "foul, I cry foul" gave that away  :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: VonMessa on June 17, 2011, 11:02:52 AM
Tell them they're not supposed to be on 200.  Because they're not supposed to be on 200 and they're NOT SUPPOSED to talk about whats being said on 200.

Feel free to remind them of this.  You can even threaten to tell on them to vDALLAS.

This is our job, now?   :noid

Do I at least get an honorary vTard secret NOE mishun decoder ring?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: RufusLeaking on June 17, 2011, 01:17:26 PM
Tell them they're not supposed to be on 200.  Because they're not supposed to be on 200 and they're NOT SUPPOSED to talk about whats being said on 200.
Isn't that the first rule of Fight Club?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Bear76 on June 17, 2011, 01:21:18 PM
Burn the Witch!! Burn the Witch!! :devil
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Babalonian on June 17, 2011, 04:24:01 PM
This is our job, now?   :noid

Do I at least get an honorary vTard secret NOE mishun decoder ring?

Too soon Von, too soon.   :D  :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: GNucks on June 17, 2011, 04:44:33 PM
The Devil's Brigade discourages tuning to 200 because they use text channels extensively. Vox channels can get clogged if there's more than half-a-dozen guys, not even taking into account all the chatty guys in Range. Mission commanders use voice as much as they can but most orders are repeated in text. In combat pilots are encouraged to use vox only when absolutely necessary, and to use the text buffer otherwise. 200 hogs the text buffer and a transmission can be buried in a matter of seconds. Mission Awareness is the biggest reason tuning to 200 is frowned upon in the Devil's Brigade.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 17, 2011, 05:33:51 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SEseph on June 17, 2011, 05:58:08 PM
Jekyll... how am I suppose to rip little missions like this apart if you're telling the secret! If they don't want listen and learn, well, survival of the fitest and what not.

Too many rules turn people sour or into a mirror image of the rule maker... just saying.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: GNucks on June 17, 2011, 06:08:02 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 17, 2011, 06:20:13 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: GNucks on June 17, 2011, 06:34:52 PM
Troll?   I'm sorry but 90% of this Community has never acknowledged DALLAS and has been the recipient of his tirades.  

Your previous post was an excuse.

You fail to explain how my post is an excuse for anything. I never mentioned Dallas or anyone's PM'ing practices but you keep bringing it up. I never tried to excuse PM attacks at all, I only addressed the issue of the Devil's Brigade staying out of 200. Who's the one on a tirade?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 17, 2011, 07:08:11 PM
what do the vTARDS have to do with radar settings???
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: GNucks on June 17, 2011, 07:14:59 PM
This thread was hijacked in the first 5 posts.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Noir on June 17, 2011, 07:15:12 PM
The Devil's Brigade discourages tuning to 200 because they use text channels extensively. Vox channels can get clogged if there's more than half-a-dozen guys, not even taking into account all the chatty guys in Range. Mission commanders use voice as much as they can but most orders are repeated in text. In combat pilots are encouraged to use vox only when absolutely necessary, and to use the text buffer otherwise. 200 hogs the text buffer and a transmission can be buried in a matter of seconds. Mission Awareness is the biggest reason tuning to 200 is frowned upon in the Devil's Brigade.

I didn't think they had such discipline.  :salute Everyone has to have objectives, I always enjoy killing one (or more) of the vGuys.  :angel:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: whopper2 on June 17, 2011, 07:31:53 PM
Thank you OP.  That was educational.

I spent almost 3 weeks of free time reading the HTC help, trainer help and forums going back a long way before I signed up for a play account and I think your OP was great.

Sorry your thread got hijacked.  
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: truss51 on June 17, 2011, 07:36:01 PM
Always Always Always check your channel BEFORE pushing your transmit button.    :devil
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: gldnbb on June 17, 2011, 08:17:16 PM


Well, many of us have seen this before and apparently there are many who still do not understand so lets clarify the height/alt restrictions.  In this case folks there are three we need to worry about. One as it relates to the DAR which is 500ft AGL, one as it relates to the Radar which is 65ft AGL, and the last as it relates to Radar range which is 0 AGL. So what will happen if you break any of these alt restrictions inbound to a base. Well one or a combination of three things.

......

Two, a corresponding DAR will indicate enemy presence of all planes above 500ft AGL. This DAR will corresponde to the number of enemy planes above the 500 ft alt. (note, it will not show YOUR plane to you)

And the third, this one is the most elusive for some folks, if you are above the 65ft AGL line you will show as a red dot on any radar range marker so long as the radar has not been destroyed.  You see, this is the trick. So many still believe that if they are below the 500 ft AGL they will NOT show a dot on enemy radar; this is wrong. You will not show as a DAR bar, but the radar will still flash and you will still show as a red dot.

.....

One correction to your lesson:   
 
DARBAR  =  250 FT AGL    (not 500ft).   This is the current setting.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: AWwrgwy on June 17, 2011, 08:23:53 PM
I have yet to see a red dot and no dar bar.

I have seen a dar bar and no red dot.

I have seen an enemy plane and no dar bar.

Apparently I'm not doing it right.



wrongway
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 17, 2011, 08:31:49 PM
Glad to see the thread is back on subject.  :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Lusche on June 17, 2011, 08:32:42 PM
I have yet to see a red dot and no dar bar.


I see it every day, each time when a NOE enters the circle of a working base radar (or an enemy fighter after a dogfight trying to get away on the deck)
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Assi29 on June 17, 2011, 08:47:58 PM
Calling out a raid on 200 is an enjoyable part of the game.  A little "we see you".

To call someone out as a spy for doing so is ignorant.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: kvuo75 on June 17, 2011, 09:46:26 PM
I have yet to see a red dot and no dar bar.

I have seen a dar bar and no red dot.

I have seen an enemy plane and no dar bar.

Apparently I'm not doing it right.



wrongway

check it out more closely, you'll see it.. they think they're NOE because they aren't throwing up a bar.. they enter a working radar ring, their dots show. as they're usually not under 65 feet. when you see dots and no bar, you KNOW it's NOE.  been like this for quite some time.


I coulda swore this was well known, and thought thats why I see so many suicide ponies/190's dive out of 15k solely for a radar tower on a day to day basis.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Delirium on June 17, 2011, 11:05:36 PM
Trust me, the Devil's Brigade command staff does not want our guys monkeying around on channel 200 and if a squad member is being a love muffin on 200, we definitely want to know about it so we can put a stop to it.

So, 200 is out of the question but private messages are ok?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 17, 2011, 11:43:12 PM
So, 200 is out of the question but private messages are ok?

I'm glad someone else got the jist of my posts.   Thank you Del.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SEseph on June 18, 2011, 12:58:23 AM
So, 200 is out of the question but private messages are ok?

You can't be a hypocrite in the open, silly. I tell you, some people....  :neener:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: vNUCKS on June 18, 2011, 05:47:56 AM
Masherbrum,

I get the jist of your posts.  You recognized the opportunity to not only criticize, but insult an entire squad (myself included) due to your apparent malice toward your "nemesis".  Any reasonable person that reads this chain will clearly see that your comments were not only unprovoked by those who you choose to openly denigrate here in the forums, but are at best thinly, or totally unrelated to the previous comments of any poster in the chain.

Furthermore, you intentionally misquoted a member of the forums to begin your malicious tirade. 

The question I ask you:  Wouldn't it be better to discuss your perceived differences with other members of our community via pm rather than in an open forum (or on ch200) so that you can better understand without slandering other community members?  Or was insulting your apparent nemesis more important to you than any collateral damage that you may cause to the rest of the community?

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 18, 2011, 06:31:39 AM
Masherbrum,

I get the jist of your posts.  You recognized the opportunity to not only criticize, but insult an entire squad (myself included) due to your apparent malice toward your "nemesis".  Any reasonable person that reads this chain will clearly see that your comments were not only unprovoked by those who you choose to openly denigrate here in the forums, but are at best thinly, or totally unrelated to the previous comments of any poster in the chain.

Furthermore, you intentionally misquoted a member of the forums to begin your malicious tirade.  

The question I ask you:  Wouldn't it be better to discuss your perceived differences with other members of our community via pm rather than in an open forum (or on ch200) so that you can better understand without slandering other community members?  Or was insulting your apparent nemesis more important to you than any collateral damage that you may cause to the rest of the community?

"Nemesis"?   You give yourself and DALLAS too much credit.    I slandered no one in my posts.   You seem to not understand that DALLAS's PM's to the Community are a DIRECT REFLECTION on the Sqaudron.   I have also never PM'd someone in a negative manner, since my account was opened in April of 2002.  

"unprovoked"?  Sorry, I was merely not beating around the bush.    As I have OFTEN seen your squad on 200, so I don't understand what this latest "Devil's Rejects aren't on 200".    If you cannot be honest with yourselves, don't try to be honest with others.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: 321BAR on June 18, 2011, 07:25:44 AM
"Nemesis"?   You give yourself and DALLAS too much credit.    I slandered no one in my posts.   You seem to not understand that DALLAS's PM's to the Community are a DIRECT REFLECTION on the Sqaudron.   I have also never PM'd someone in a negative manner, since my account was opened in April of 2002.  

"unprovoked"?  Sorry, I was merely not beating around the bush.    As I have OFTEN seen your squad on 200, so I don't understand what this latest "Devil's Rejects aren't on 200".    If you cannot be honest with yourselves, don't try to be honest with others.
hey Karaya? since when was Dallas the whole Devil's Brigade?...

and also the only way it is a direct reflection on the squadron is if you make it that way

<S>


P.S.
Fixed.

When you make excuses for what they do, you're just as bad as they are.    ONE SQUADDIE PM'ing someone like DALLAS and Co., is a black eye for the Squad entire.   
pretty sure you slandered my squaddie with that one and slandered the entire Devil's Brigade at once.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 18, 2011, 08:07:11 AM
One correction to your lesson:   
 
DARBAR  =  250 FT AGL    (not 500ft).   This is the current setting.


Thanks for the correction, I do recall the change to 250 ft AGL after the last reversion on the oversized radar range correction. I know it got confusing for a lot of people after those changes.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 18, 2011, 08:10:36 AM
I have yet to see a red dot and no dar bar.

I have seen a dar bar and no red dot.

I have seen an enemy plane and no dar bar.

Apparently I'm not doing it right.



wrongway

Next time I will take a screenshot of it and put it in here, I wish I had done that at the time but I had no way of knowing the squad would blow up like they did. I only hope this educates them somewhat, the game is more enjoyable when we understand the basic rules.

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Masherbrum on June 18, 2011, 08:24:14 AM
and also the only way it is a direct reflection on the squadron is if you make it that way


More excuses.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: GNucks on June 18, 2011, 08:37:37 AM
More excuses.

An excuse is a reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense. Bar didn't try to justify anything, nobody has tried to justify PM harassment.

Here's an excuse: If you want to speak ill of another player it is best to do it in private channels without an audience, so you can let your rival know what you think of him without humiliating him in front of all of his peers. If someone wanted to flame me I would greatly prefer they PM'd me rather than ridicule me on 200 so everyone else can chime in. I get sick of guys bickering on 200 all the time and blowing up my text buffer, at least Dallas stays out of that mess.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 18, 2011, 08:47:52 AM
I don't suppose you guys would consider taking this to PM instead of hijacking this thread?  :aok
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Vudu15 on June 18, 2011, 09:28:58 AM
Trust me, the Devil's Brigade command staff does not want our guys monkeying around on channel 200 and if a squad member is being a love muffin on 200, we definitely want to know about it so we can put a stop to it.
thats sad that your "command staff" tells you what text you cant tune to.....
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: gldnbb on June 18, 2011, 12:02:35 PM
I have yet to see a red dot and no dar bar.

I have seen a dar bar and no red dot.

I have seen an enemy plane and no dar bar.

Apparently I'm not doing it right.



wrongway

It happens,  just not all the time.   I have seen it both while in tower and a base flashes and the dots come on and go off (when they realize they're about 65 and get back down).   And I have seen it while in an NOE mission and someone gets above 65 feet  (you do pay attention to these things).
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: LCADolby on June 18, 2011, 12:31:25 PM
I bumped into a NOE Claim Jumpers raid to 199 yesterday, they were good enough not call cheat or spy via PM they knew I got lucky.  :banana:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 18, 2011, 08:36:11 PM
thats sad that your "command staff" tells you what text you cant tune to.....

200 is for teenagers.  It's too big of a distraction too.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rolex on June 18, 2011, 10:30:21 PM
Thanks for the correction, I do recall the change to 250 ft AGL after the last reversion on the oversized radar range correction. I know it got confusing for a lot of people after those changes.

Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Assi29 on June 18, 2011, 10:33:39 PM
A lot of guys are just paranoid about spies.  I suggest posting such intel on your own country channel instead of 200 for 2 reasons.

1.  200 goes to all countries, they may have assumed you were communicating from the country who was doing the NOE raid.
2.  I hate hearing about what's being said on channel 200 from my squad.



200 is for teenagers.  It's too big of a distraction too.


For not tuning in to 200, it sure does seem to bother you.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rob52240 on June 19, 2011, 10:43:18 AM
Yes I suppose it does, but only when the squad is in the middle of something and somebody is giving a play by play of what's being said on 200.

I'll try to be more tolerant of channel 200. :salute
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 19, 2011, 11:01:07 AM
Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.

Do those setting automatically translate into what the MA's are?  Just curious.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 19, 2011, 08:20:39 PM
Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.

Ok, I digress, :)  :bhead
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: EskimoJoe on June 19, 2011, 08:35:42 PM
Do those setting automatically translate into what the MA's are?  Just curious.

I'm assuming the last used MA settings translate to offline, yes.

However, they could very well be automatic, or 'default' settings as well.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: 321BAR on June 20, 2011, 01:36:31 PM
More excuses.
miss the part about you slandering my squaddie did you?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Gooss on June 20, 2011, 02:44:43 PM
is there something wrong about having a command staff in a squad?

Of course there's nothing wrong with it.  Just like there's nothing wrong with a squad without one.

HONK!
Gooss
327th Steel Talons
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: gldnbb on June 21, 2011, 11:00:59 PM
Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.


Offline settings differ from Online settings.   Otherwise one would suspect that the arena map, the weather,  the ack lethality in field/town, and the bad-word count would all be the same (currently set to 0).

I have flown in the LW on NOE runs and seen dar bar pop up as others go above 250ft agl.



Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2011, 11:18:06 PM
From the man himself:

No, you must be above 250 to appear on sector counters.

p.s.: I really wish the forum search would work...
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SEseph on June 21, 2011, 11:48:38 PM
p.s.: I really wish the forum search would work...

but then what would you do between charts? You might feel lost and we don't want that!!  :bolt:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2011, 11:51:29 PM
but then what would you do between charts? You might feel lost and we don't want that!!  :bolt:

I could do much more, much better charts if I didn't had to spend my time browsing all postings manually to find the specific one I'm looking for!  :x
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Shane on June 22, 2011, 12:27:17 AM
I could do much more, much better charts if I didn't had to spend my time browsing all postings manually to find the specific one I'm looking for!  :x

show us a chart proving that!
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 22, 2011, 08:21:31 AM
From the man himself:

p.s.: I really wish the forum search would work...

that... and there would be a some type of way for players to know what the setting were when logging in to a server.  An arena message if nothing else.  If it were that easy, I'd like to see the radar and dar-bar detection altitudes changed frequently.   :D 
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 22, 2011, 01:54:30 PM
The Devil's Brigade discourages tuning to 200 because they use text channels extensively. Vox channels can get clogged if there's more than half-a-dozen guys, not even taking into account all the chatty guys in Range. Mission commanders use voice as much as they can but most orders are repeated in text. In combat pilots are encouraged to use vox only when absolutely necessary, and to use the text buffer otherwise. 200 hogs the text buffer and a transmission can be buried in a matter of seconds. Mission Awareness is the biggest reason tuning to 200 is frowned upon in the Devil's Brigade.

Too bad the vTools don't discourage vDALLAS from acting like an arse and sending PMs every time he runs from a fight or gets his arse handed back to him. 

ack-ack
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: DaHand on June 22, 2011, 02:35:57 PM
Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.

Don't you mean 200ft for the bar?
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SmokinLoon on June 22, 2011, 04:46:10 PM
Don't you mean 200ft for the bar?

250ft is when you produce a dar-bar (remember, you do NOT see your own dar-bar).

65ft is when you show as a red dot INSIDE the dar ring.  

Forget all the other voices in your head.  Just listen to me.   :aok    :D
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Shiva on June 22, 2011, 06:04:06 PM
The DAR-BAR setting is at 500 ft above the terrain (I thought it was 250ft, but regardless).  That effects everything ABOVE that altitude regardless of where you are at on the map.

The RADAR [ring] setting is at 65ft.  If the radar has not been destroyed then everything above 65ft can been seen as a red dot.
This explains why I've run into defenders waiting for me when I run NOE missions on mountainous maps, and only worry about staying behind the mountains until I pop over the last pass... I wonder if it would be practical to give the dotdar a radar horizon -- draw a line between the radar tower and your plane, and if it hits ground before it reaches your plane, your dot doesn't get drawn. It would be very situational in application, but it would elminate the unrealistic case of the radar being able to see through mountains.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Rolex on June 22, 2011, 09:02:17 PM
I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Delirium on June 22, 2011, 10:22:01 PM
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I told you, the radar cross section is very small in a P38 and the blender is our own radar absorbing material.   :devil
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: icepac on June 23, 2011, 10:56:02 AM
I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.



Good research.

I've seen enemy me163s show up at 40k feet without a dar bar showing until we entered a dar ring as well.

Here's some more information.....

Your plane will flash a field regardless of being airborne or landed when it is within the radius of the dar ring.....whether operational or not......this includes the city/strats and HQ.

Many trees make it near impossible to approach a field NOE below 65 feet AGL without the red dot showing and the field is flashing anyway.

If you want to approach NOE and can get below red dot height, you had better make sure the field has a friendly tank spawn nearby or the enemy will surely know there is a NOE plane inbound.


Sometimes, I land on mountaintops just out of dar range near the city or HQ and wait for B29s to up.

If I get bored waiting, I slowly taxi into the "flash proximity" from my 20k foot mountaintop perch and cause it to flash while I am away from keyboard and turn the sound up as well as zoom the clipboard showing my area large enough for me to see a dar bar show up from across the room.

Then I wait to pounce.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Shuffler on June 23, 2011, 11:40:41 AM
Very good info..... this means..... keep your head on a swivel.


Maybe the inconsistencies are built in to represent the fairly "iffy" dar back then. Sounds good anyway. :D
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: VonMessa on June 23, 2011, 11:46:27 AM
The bottom line here is that most NOE mishuns can be sniffed out by watching the map.

Same goes with organized buff/attack mishuns. 

If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: SEseph on June 23, 2011, 12:14:38 PM
SE's have had this in practice since the new dar settings... kill the dar before you go in. Why worry about 65 feet with dots when you can add a few hundred without dots with a wee bit of fore thought.

Just saying.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Delirium on June 23, 2011, 03:51:43 PM
If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...

You must have a spy! How could you do something so heinous that it would ruin all of my missions?!?!   

  :furious
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Lusche on June 23, 2011, 04:06:07 PM
If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...


I have come to the conclusion that most people do. Most just take notice of their immediate surroundings, if any at all. You can point out that huge double sector darbar upping at a remote 5k airfield, you can up a fighter, fly there, then shadow that huge bomber raid for 30 minutes, giving out precise updates on vector, altitude composition - and still get totally ignored by most players. You will see all those green dots at the probable target, not upping to stop that mission but just following all that other green dot's towards that enemy base that's being horded. And when the enemy high alt bomber mission finally reaches the target bases, many players will jump into... not a fighter, but a Wirbelwind. And of course, the local & country channel will be full of "Where did those buffs suddenly all come from?" and "bomb****s just killed out hangars, wtf!?"   :lol
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Zoney on June 23, 2011, 04:23:16 PM
Good research.

I've seen enemy me163s show up at 40k feet without a dar bar showing until we entered a dar ring as well.

Here's some more information.....

Your plane will flash a field regardless of being airborne or landed when it is within the radius of the dar ring.....whether operational or not......this includes the city/strats and HQ.

Many trees make it near impossible to approach a field NOE below 65 feet AGL without the red dot showing and the field is flashing anyway.

If you want to approach NOE and can get below red dot height, you had better make sure the field has a friendly tank spawn nearby or the enemy will surely know there is a NOE plane inbound.


Sometimes, I land on mountaintops just out of dar range near the city or HQ and wait for B29s to up.

If I get bored waiting, I slowly taxi into the "flash proximity" from my 20k foot mountaintop perch and cause it to flash while I am away from keyboard and turn the sound up as well as zoom the clipboard showing my area large enough for me to see a dar bar show up from across the room.

Then I wait to pounce.

WOW, just a bit gamey maybe, kinda, sorta.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: icepac on June 23, 2011, 05:04:08 PM
I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 23, 2011, 05:14:19 PM
I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.



Interesting, did you align your aura with your karma prior to launch?

seriously tho, this is good stuff and could explain some anomalies.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Wiley on June 23, 2011, 05:35:24 PM
I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.

LOL, another ex-Warbirder I see...  To be fair, Z's changed his stripes over here quite a bit from how he played a couple years ago.  He's still a dirty, filthy picking altmonkey ;) but I haven't seen him plug pull yet here.

Lusche- I happened to be on the other night when you were doing exactly that, and noticed one of your early reports of the buffs, grabbed a 152 and followed the snail shaped dot on the dar.  If I recall right there were somewhere between 8 and a dozen of us headed for that buff group and a good time was had by all.  It was a rarity though, it frankly shocks me how people will not notice reports in the buffer until the enemy is right over top of them.

Rolex- That fits with pretty much every anomaly I've ever seen with the bar dar.  The question becomes... bug, or feature?

Wiley.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: icepac on June 23, 2011, 10:45:59 PM
It's just strange a 163 can climb 36,000 feet and the dar bar is not there yet.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Shuffler on June 24, 2011, 01:06:08 AM

I have come to the conclusion that most people do. Most just take notice of their immediate surroundings, if any at all

I can be in a parking lot in my 2500 HD crew cab diesel. Folks walking right down the middle of the lane with kids. I'm right behind them.


It's no wonder criminal pray on the ignorant in parking lots......... they have their heads up their arses.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Scca on June 24, 2011, 11:31:57 AM
I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.
Seriously?  "a couple of years ago"? :huh

I too have see odd dar bar behavior.  Nothing like thinking that there's one con, and there are 5 or 6 waiting for you when you get close... 
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Zoney on June 24, 2011, 01:44:11 PM
I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.


Many years ago, in a different game, when I was new and had no idea except I had seen many others do it and mistakenly thought it was part of the game.




(edited out because it was not nice)
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Zoney on June 24, 2011, 01:51:34 PM
LOL, another ex-Warbirder I see...  To be fair, Z's changed his stripes over here quite a bit from how he played a couple years ago.  He's still a dirty, filthy picking altmonkey  ;) but I haven't seen him plug pull yet here.

Wiley.


Now that right there is the truth.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: dedalos on June 24, 2011, 02:10:33 PM
At list it is all clear now.

Dar is at 500 no wait 250 darbar is at 500 no wait 200 while dar is 65 but darbar is at 250 dar is at 200 when in the circle but not when in the sircle because then Dar is at 500 no wait 250 darbar is at 500 no wait 200 while dar is 65 but darbar is at 250 dar is at 200 when in the circle but not when in the sircle because then Dar is at 500 no wait 250 darbar is at 500 no wait 200 while dar is 65 but darbar is at 250 dar is at 200 when in the circle but not when in the sircle because then Dar is at 500 no wait 250 darbar is at 500 no wait 200 while dar is 65 but darbar is at 250 dar is at 200 when in the circle but not when in the sircle because then . . . . . . . .

 :old:
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: PJ_Godzilla on June 24, 2011, 02:15:49 PM
Foul, I say... Totally Foul. You are the pharoah of phoul, and I post to get pinged every time this gripping but surely moribund thread updates. Someone will surely cross the line shortly. Then the foul fowl will surely fly into the fan - the result of which will be the spraying of fowl fecal material to and fro - and that's no canard.

Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Zoney on June 24, 2011, 02:36:58 PM
Foul, I say... Totally Foul. You are the pharoah of phoul, and I post to get pinged every time this gripping but surely moribund thread updates. Someone will surely cross the line shortly. Then the foul fowl will surely fly into the fan - the result of which will be the spraying of fowl fecal material to and fro - and that's no canard.



Zilla, someone has laced your cereal, just step slowly away from the Captain Crunch.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: gldnbb on June 24, 2011, 06:51:27 PM
I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.



Last night I flew an noe mission.    I saw someone get above 250feet =  dar bar.   I then told him to get below 250 feet and the dar bar went away.

Unless the enemy sees different,  I'll have to disbelieve the theory of  'climb above 250 ,   then you must get below 65 to make the dar bar go away'.      I certainly will be testing this theory more.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Lusche on June 24, 2011, 07:01:43 PM
Last night I flew an noe mission.    I saw someone get above 250feet =  dar bar.   I then told him to get below 250 feet and the dar bar went away.

Unless the enemy sees different,  I'll have to disbelieve the theory of  'climb above 250 ,   then you must get below 65 to make the dar bar go away'.      I certainly will be testing this theory more.


And that's exactly why it's inconsistent, or simply bugged under some circumstances we don't have tracked down yet. Usually, it works as advertised, but sometimes it's really messed up. That's what Rolex (et al) practical tests under controlled  circumstances do show. They aren't just "theory". It started out with having a lot of reports of inconsistent behaviour by players who are usually known for precise power of observation and not for simply crying out "bug", and then several players started to do some dedicated tests.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Babalonian on June 24, 2011, 07:31:52 PM
It might be something or not, but last week on one of the maps I thought I noted odd radar behavior at two friendly bases with overlapping radar rings also overlapping the bases (and their radar towers) themselves, both within I believe the same major map sector.  The SW-most field was under constant attack from an enemy fireld just to it's own SW with nothing in range of the NE-most field's dar but still constantly setting it off until some enemy destroyed the SW-most base's radar tower and had been "vacated" from the premesis of the overlapping NE-base's radar circle.

I originally dismissed it for a sneaker at our NE-most base, but after searching the town and field and all nearby barns for a bit of time (no enemy vspawn was there) I realised nothing was there so it was probabley someone hiding.  After the radar was downed and the enemy con cleared and then it finally stopped flashing - that I thought was odd.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: The Jekyll on June 24, 2011, 09:52:27 PM
Maybe a new thread in the Bugs section or move this one, I don't know. Would be interesting to find out the issue.
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: 999000 on June 24, 2011, 10:31:36 PM
Spies don't bother me........its bigfoot and Shawk that scare me!!!!!  .....have you ever noticed the resemblence?
999000 <S>
Title: Re: A Lesson on Dar and Radar
Post by: Zoney on June 25, 2011, 11:19:06 AM
Spies don't bother me........its bigfoot and Shawk that scare me!!!!!  .....have you ever noticed the resemblence?
999000 <S>


What about me ?  I don't scare you just a little?  Sometimes?  I know for a fact when I see someone shot down by a B17 he attacked and he comes back on country channell and says "That's 999000 at XXX", I make sure to fly textbook, no mistakes, patience and timing all important.  Heck you're the only buff in the game that I consistently see warnings posted re your position.  If you are ever bored just PM me, you know I will come running to either wing with you, or to remove a wing for you mate <S>.