A Lesson on Dar and Radar

[DaHand]

Bar dar altitude is 500' AGL. You can check by opening arena settings and environment from the clipboard while offline.

Don't you mean 200ft for the bar?

[SmokinLoon]

Don't you mean 200ft for the bar?

250ft is when you produce a dar-bar (remember, you do NOT see your own dar-bar).

65ft is when you show as a red dot INSIDE the dar ring.  

Forget all the other voices in your head.  Just listen to me.      

[Shiva]

The DAR-BAR setting is at 500 ft above the terrain (I thought it was 250ft, but regardless).  That effects everything ABOVE that altitude regardless of where you are at on the map.

The RADAR [ring] setting is at 65ft.  If the radar has not been destroyed then everything above 65ft can been seen as a red dot.

This explains why I've run into defenders waiting for me when I run NOE missions on mountainous maps, and only worry about staying behind the mountains until I pop over the last pass... I wonder if it would be practical to give the dotdar a radar horizon -- draw a line between the radar tower and your plane, and if it hits ground before it reaches your plane, your dot doesn't get drawn. It would be very situational in application, but it would elminate the unrealistic case of the radar being able to see through mountains.

[Rolex]

I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.

[Delirium]

He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I told you, the radar cross section is very small in a P38 and the blender is our own radar absorbing material.   

[icepac]

I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.

Good research.

I've seen enemy me163s show up at 40k feet without a dar bar showing until we entered a dar ring as well.

Here's some more information.....

Your plane will flash a field regardless of being airborne or landed when it is within the radius of the dar ring.....whether operational or not......this includes the city/strats and HQ.

Many trees make it near impossible to approach a field NOE below 65 feet AGL without the red dot showing and the field is flashing anyway.

If you want to approach NOE and can get below red dot height, you had better make sure the field has a friendly tank spawn nearby or the enemy will surely know there is a NOE plane inbound.


Sometimes, I land on mountaintops just out of dar range near the city or HQ and wait for B29s to up.

If I get bored waiting, I slowly taxi into the "flash proximity" from my 20k foot mountaintop perch and cause it to flash while I am away from keyboard and turn the sound up as well as zoom the clipboard showing my area large enough for me to see a dar bar show up from across the room.

Then I wait to pounce.

[Shuffler]

Very good info..... this means..... keep your head on a swivel.


Maybe the inconsistencies are built in to represent the fairly "iffy" dar back then. Sounds good anyway.

[VonMessa]

The bottom line here is that most NOE mishuns can be sniffed out by watching the map.

Same goes with organized buff/attack mishuns. 

If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...

[SEseph]

SE's have had this in practice since the new dar settings... kill the dar before you go in. Why worry about 65 feet with dots when you can add a few hundred without dots with a wee bit of fore thought.

Just saying.

[Delirium]

If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...

You must have a spy! How could you do something so heinous that it would ruin all of my missions?!?!   

 

[Lusche]

If I see dar bar growing, 2 sectors away, I don't need a magic 8-ball to figure out what is happening...

I have come to the conclusion that most people do. Most just take notice of their immediate surroundings, if any at all. You can point out that huge double sector darbar upping at a remote 5k airfield, you can up a fighter, fly there, then shadow that huge bomber raid for 30 minutes, giving out precise updates on vector, altitude composition - and still get totally ignored by most players. You will see all those green dots at the probable target, not upping to stop that mission but just following all that other green dot's towards that enemy base that's being horded. And when the enemy high alt bomber mission finally reaches the target bases, many players will jump into... not a fighter, but a Wirbelwind. And of course, the local & country channel will be full of "Where did those buffs suddenly all come from?" and "bomb****s just killed out hangars, wtf!?"   

[Zoney]

Good research.

I've seen enemy me163s show up at 40k feet without a dar bar showing until we entered a dar ring as well.

Here's some more information.....

Your plane will flash a field regardless of being airborne or landed when it is within the radius of the dar ring.....whether operational or not......this includes the city/strats and HQ.

Many trees make it near impossible to approach a field NOE below 65 feet AGL without the red dot showing and the field is flashing anyway.

If you want to approach NOE and can get below red dot height, you had better make sure the field has a friendly tank spawn nearby or the enemy will surely know there is a NOE plane inbound.


Sometimes, I land on mountaintops just out of dar range near the city or HQ and wait for B29s to up.

If I get bored waiting, I slowly taxi into the "flash proximity" from my 20k foot mountaintop perch and cause it to flash while I am away from keyboard and turn the sound up as well as zoom the clipboard showing my area large enough for me to see a dar bar show up from across the room.

Then I wait to pounce.

WOW, just a bit gamey maybe, kinda, sorta.

[icepac]

I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.

[The Jekyll]

I just tested again in the LW arena with Delirium on another country.

He flew from a field adjacent the water to rule out terrain height.
He gradually gained altitude, pausing at increments to allow the radar refresh to cycle.
He was painted on bar dar above 250 feet.
He reduced altitude in increments until his bar dar disappeared under 65 feet.
He gradually gained altitude again and his bar dar never reappeared again even about 1,500 feet. He was able to fly all the way across the map undetected and his bar dar only reappeared after he entered a radar ring.
No one else on the same country as me could see his bar dar either, so it was not localized to me.

I upped and Delirium observed. I gained altitude in increments the same way as he did. He saw no bar dar until I was over 500 feet. My bar dar disappeared to him as I flew under 65'.

Delirium and I recorded the same inconsistencies as Lusche (Snailman) and I recorded months ago. Sector counter height is 250' or 500' AGL.

Interesting, did you align your aura with your karma prior to launch?

seriously tho, this is good stuff and could explain some anomalies.

[Wiley]

I'm not sure you know the definition of "gamey" and it is certainly less "gamey" than your bailing after I climb 30k to get your buff a couple of years ago.

LOL, another ex-Warbirder I see...  To be fair, Z's changed his stripes over here quite a bit from how he played a couple years ago.  He's still a dirty, filthy picking altmonkey but I haven't seen him plug pull yet here.

Lusche- I happened to be on the other night when you were doing exactly that, and noticed one of your early reports of the buffs, grabbed a 152 and followed the snail shaped dot on the dar.  If I recall right there were somewhere between 8 and a dozen of us headed for that buff group and a good time was had by all.  It was a rarity though, it frankly shocks me how people will not notice reports in the buffer until the enemy is right over top of them.

Rolex- That fits with pretty much every anomaly I've ever seen with the bar dar.  The question becomes... bug, or feature?

Wiley.