Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: alpini13 on June 20, 2011, 09:19:10 PM
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We currently have 4 fw190's in the game...5 if you count the Ta152. The best of the A series is not in the game.The fw190 A-9 was produced in quantity(870-910 depending on source) and was a production aircraft that saw extensive combat.More A-9 were produced that D-9 doras and Ta152 combined and we have both of those in the game.
The differnece between the A-9 and the current A-8 is the A-9 is about 10mph faster at all altitudes and has alittle bit more armour protection in the nose and leading edge of the wings,it had a more powerful engine.the guns and ammo loadout was the same. i have run across a performance chart from Focke-Wulf that shows differences between the A-8,A-9,D-9,and D-12 models.as the a-8 and D-9 are in the game and the D-12 was very limited in production and combat the logical plane to be added would be the A-9 as the flight model and damage models for the A-8 would have to be altered to add the plane.
The A-9 came into production before the D-9 and was used as a replacement for the A-8.many squadrons of the lUFTWAFFE were mixed squads during 1944 and 1945,an example would be JG301 which flew Fw190 A-9,fw190 D-9 and TA152 h-0,Ta152-H1 and the only two Ta-152c-0 all at the same time.
Remember the FW190 A-9 was a production model in quantity that saw combat on a variety of fronts.
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Additional info on the fw190 A-9/ some sources claim this was a protoype or was not even made.the Fact is US armed forces recovered combat used fw190A-9 in italy,germany,austria and the russians recovered fw190A-9 combat used aircraft in germany and hungary.At least 7 different squadrons used the fw190A-9 in combat.we have the combat records and the official focke-wulf production records.it was a real production aircraft used in comabt...examples of the fate of some are:
Stab J.G.11 'Black 4 + ' Crashed in Holland or Belgium 01.01.45, pilot and Geschwaderkommodore Oberstleutnant Gunther Specht missing
Stab J.G.1 'Green 7 + ' Crashed after combat 26.11.44 at Lewfreda, pilot Gefr. Ernst Nikoleizak killed
205 029
4./J.G.301 A-9/R11, crashed after combat 26.11.44 at Bückeburg 26.11.44, pilot Fw. Emil Schubert killed
1./J.G.301 Damaged in combat 05.12.44 at Neustrelitz, pilot Fw. Gerhard Koch wounded
4./J.G.301 A-9/R11, force-landing after combat 26.11.44 at Niendorf, pilot Uffz. Gottfried Hellriegel wounded
15./J.G.54 'Yellow 1 + ' Force-landing 14.01.45 at Broxten, pilot and Staffelführer Lt. Karl Resch killed
6.(Sturm)/J.G.300 'Green 3 + -' Crashed after combat 24.03.45 at Göttingen, pilot Fw. Ewald Preis killed the list goes on you get the idea....the graph can be found in the TA-152 book that is out
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This cut-and-paste fails almost as much as "scores disappearing after a weekend".
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Only if I get a Spitfire XII to shoot it down with :)
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well im glad at least these two guys agree it was a real combat production aircraft made in quantity,thanks guys
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I'd be interested in flying this as well. It would seem to be an easy add to the list, not requiring much programing change from the current A8 model.
Boo
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well im glad at least these two guys agree it was a real combat production aircraft made in quantity,thanks guys
Has anybody ever said otherwise about the Fw190A-9? I've never heard it disputed as a valid contender for addition.
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Has anybody ever said otherwise about the Fw190A-9? I've never heard it disputed as a valid contender for addition.
As long as I get a Spitfire XII to shoot it down. Don't forget that part! :)
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thank you guppy35 for your support in this matter i am glad to see you agree that this is a valid aircraft and you think it should be added to the game,thanks again sir
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I'd guess you'll get your A9 about the time I get a Spit XII :)
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We currently have 4 fw190's in the game...5 if you count the Ta152. The best of the A series is not in the game.The fw190 A-9 was produced in quantity(870-910 depending on source) and was a production aircraft that saw extensive combat.More A-9 were produced that D-9 doras and Ta152 combined and we have both of those in the game.
The differnece between the A-9 and the current A-8 is the A-9 is about 10mph faster at all altitudes and has alittle bit more armour protection in the nose and leading edge of the wings,it had a more powerful engine.the guns and ammo loadout was the same. i have run across a performance chart from Focke-Wulf that shows differences between the A-8,A-9,D-9,and D-12 models.as the a-8 and D-9 are in the game and the D-12 was very limited in production and combat the logical plane to be added would be the A-9 as the flight model and damage models for the A-8 would have to be altered to add the plane.
The A-9 came into production before the D-9 and was used as a replacement for the A-8.many squadrons of the lUFTWAFFE were mixed squads during 1944 and 1945,an example would be JG301 which flew Fw190 A-9,fw190 D-9 and TA152 h-0,Ta152-H1 and the only two Ta-152c-0 all at the same time.
Remember the FW190 A-9 was a production model in quantity that saw combat on a variety of fronts.
There were only three that were produced and production stop over the 190D-13, where it was put into action around 11 or so. There were only two variant of A-9 that was put into action. A-9, first of the variants of the A-9 and A9/R6 that was fitted with two WGr 21 underwing rocket launcher.
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around 850-950 A9's were built. The canopy has more bubble toward the rear, like the D9 for better visibility, and about 350 more HP; good for 369mph at SL and 419 at best altitude
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+1 a competitive A series wouldn't hurt. And weight correction on the A8 would be great also!
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about 350 more HP; good for 369mph at SL and 419 at best altitude
heck, its impressive. Even if it urns like an a-8, it would be a capable ride.
The Dora can do 372 at SL and 425ish at the best altitude. This A-9 would climb like a BEAST too, guessing 4000+ft/min at SL (just speculating, would luv to see the charts).
BIG +1
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yes we definetly need another plane that HOs on first pass, then RUNS from the fight :rock
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sure, thats why my ride loses every ho pass and unable to run away from/cant catch a spit9... omg buncha dweebs
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yes we definetly need another plane that HOs on first pass, then RUNS from the fight :rock
Sure, cuz its the plane that does that, I guess the pilot flying it is just along for the ride. :rofl
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Sure, cuz its the plane that does that, I guess the pilot flying it is just along for the ride. :rofl
Damn, you beat me to it :furious
I'm gonna use that analogy the next time I get pulled over for speeding... :rolleyes:
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Sure, cuz its the plane that does that, I guess the pilot flying it is just along for the ride. :rofl
And you thought the Terminator movies were fictional. :x
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I seem to recall some debunking of the gains of a A-9 on this forum for many years and backed up by many sources.
No doubt it flew and fought, but as compared to an A-8? Not much difference.
Heh, a quick search yielded this thread from early 2003 discussing the very same plane:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,80177.msg778906.html#msg778906
Some go back even earlier!
While it was supposed to have the wide wooden blades, most were made with the standard metal prop blades. While they started with a 14-blade cooling fan, this was reverted back to 12 very quickly.
Essentially the difference was in minor variations in armor thickness, the engine, and the canopy being a bit more bulged. The wings' leading edges were not armored, so much as I think that stems from armor around the ammo boxes on the outboard guns. You find similar armor setups on the A-8 Sturm craft.
Also please keep in mind our A-8 (overweight as it is) does about 408mph. The A-9 is touted as doing a whopping 418mph.
10mph difference, for the exact same plane with more armor weight. It would not change anything in the game. You want fast, you still have to fly a Dora. :P
P.S. I denounce the "lighter than an A-8" comment because it carried thicker armor plating, by definition having "heavier" armor. Plane for plane, it should be heavier. Now, compared to OUR A-8, perhaps it would be slightly lighter, but our A-8 needs to lose several hundred pounds of false weight to be historically correct.
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at no point did I say THE A-9 was lighter that an A-8...as for debate and actual performance..well there should be only ONE source for that info....and that would be the germans building the aircraft back in 1944...NOT anybody's opinion,NOT anybody's guess,NOT anybody's thoughts or myths.....lets look at the actual facts. Focke Wulf compared the A-8,A-9,D-9,D-12 and they found that the A-9 was slower that the D-9 but faster than the A-8 at ALL altitudes ..about 10mph faster, plus some other mods to the basic A-8 and they prototyped it then pre productioned it then put it in production and it saw active combat with at least 7 different squadrons. there was also an A-10 that went to prototype BUT was not produced.maybe people are confusing the A-9 with the A-10? the A-10 prototyps had a 2400hp motor similiar to the bmw's in the other A series 190's..most notable on those was an air intake on the front leading edge of the left wing.we are not wishing for the A-10 or do we think it should be here. The wish is for the A-9 and it could be an easy upgrade to the game. as for people asking for a spit12?? please post on the wishlist with info relating to it,not here. <S>
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Has anybody ever said otherwise about the Fw190A-9? I've never heard it disputed as a valid contender for addition.
Nope. Hell if you did a little digging below the surface of this forum, you'd find most of us would rather just settle for an A-8 that isn't the heaviest and slowest production model A-8 Focke Wulf ever produced to be in the game rather than another whole aircraft addition.
But lets go this path, I'm all for more 190s in the game (<- understatement of the year), but it still brings up the rather nasty and ugly issue on these forums of our currently modeled A-8 as it is in the game and surely (at least I know I would strongly) we'll want our A-8 still adjusted and lightened up so it differenciates well enough from the A-9 series production.
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Nope. Hell if you did a little digging below the surface of this forum, you'd find most of us would rather just settle for an A-8 that isn't the heaviest and slowest production model A-8 Focke Wulf ever produced to be in the game rather than another whole aircraft addition.
But lets go this path, I'm all for more 190s in the game (<- understatement of the year), but it still brings up the rather nasty and ugly issue on these forums of our currently modeled A-8 as it is in the game and surely (at least I know I would strongly) we'll want our A-8 still adjusted and lightened up so it differenciates well enough from the A-9 series production.
Well said! After this is taken care of I hope they add the A-9 as it will be an easy add, give the A8 a D9 canopy, and more horses.
We have the fastest Jug of the War, why not add the fastest 190A?
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We have the fastest Jug of the War, why not add the fastest 190A?
I've no objection to more Fw190s being added, but that is a pretty weak argument. It can be applied to an awful lot of aircraft and would have HTC crippled as to addition choices.
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Thank prof kurt tank for asking for comparing the A-8 and the A-9...in his test by focke-wulf BOTH the a-8 and the A-9 had two 13.1mm machine guns and the 4X20mm gun package, and the A-8 weiged 4300KG(9460lbs) the A-9 weighed 4370KG for the tests. so the A-9 weighs 70kilos (154lbs)more than the A-8.i believe that is with a full fuel load.
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LMBO, Alpini, take a chill pill before you have an heart attack. LOL!!
I wasn't talking myth, or opinion. You're not the only one that knows how to read things, you know? A bunch of folks with a lot more resources than you or I have weighed in on this for nigh on 10 years now. You're not reinventing the wheel or anything!
Like I said, a whopping 10mph. Individual craft off the same production line could have that much variation in them due to the finish and production of the craft in question. That's not much of a difference. You have to remember that Kurt Tank was above all an excellent salesman too. He has many performance charts for combinations of aircraft that never flew nor even began production. He had estimated engine charts for some Ta152 models, for example, that never existed. He had others that only existed based on test bed performance but not real aircraft.
The condition of the tests is also sometimes in question. At what boost? With experimental power settings, etc? So naturally you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
As for the weight issue, I'm sorry if you thought I was picking on you. I wasn't. I was referring to the thread I linked. There was a comment about the A9 being lighter.
P.S. If ONLY our A8 weighed 4300 kg! If only!
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In an ideal world we get all the 190 variants the LW guys want, and all the 109 variants. And we get all the Spits, 38s, 51s 40s, etc.
Just remember next time someone asks for another Spit variant, as in XII for me, that you want all your 190s too :)
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In an ideal world we get all the 190 variants the LW guys want, and all the 109 variants. And we get all the Spits, 38s, 51s 40s, etc.
Just remember next time someone asks for another Spit variant, as in XII for me, that you want all your 190s too :)
Now we're seeing eye to eye! And have you ever witnessed me get into an argument between you tea sippers and your adictive vices? :D
And on that note, when was the last time a 190/109/spit got added to the game? We may be jumping the gun here in presuming any of those AC familys need some TLC or attention from HTC in the imediate future. IE: P51s would be a more logical AC to address adding some more varients to in teh game in the near ot imediate futue, I think and would much rather see a couple more varients added of that popular AC series since we only have two of them currently. I will always personaly want 190s to come first, wouldn't mind more spits, but lets both not get tunneled visioned on what we both personaly want (besides, then we'll have more ponys to shoot down in our 190s and spitys, lol).
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yes we definetly need another plane that HOs on first pass, then RUNS from the fight :rock
You mean there is a plane in the entire planeset that doesnt typically do exactly that anyway?
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You mean there is a plane in the entire planeset that doesnt typically do exactly that anyway?
Yeah, my P38G :)
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You mean there is a plane in the entire planeset that doesnt typically do exactly that anyway?
anyway its not the plane, its the pilot. I know many spit16 heroes as a dedicated ho-n-runners, while i know many pilots who never run from a fight.
an example: Is the La-7 a dweeb or a tard plane? Is SF an L-ghey tard then? No cuz he uses its speed to catch the enemy not to run from them. Big difference.
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the 190 A9 would be the easiest, quick addition, we already have the canopy (from the D9, 152) and of course the whole other graphic model from the A8.
Same thing when they added the 47M. This would also help prove there is no bias of Luft aircraft, too! :) (provided the A8 is put on a diet, and the A5 gets it's real top speed at sea level of 352 at 1.42 ata)
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You mean there is a plane in the entire planeset that doesnt typically do exactly that anyway?
Absolutely hilarious tonight, and with no disrespect intended to DREDIOCK. So there I am on the deck in a fight, and what do I see but a 190A5 coming at me head on. True to what I said I didn't HO, but the 190 started blazing away head on and shot me down.
Who was it? DREDIOCK :)
I don't care, but having seen his comment in this thread, and having replied, it seemed appropriate :aok
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Absolutely hilarious tonight, and with no disrespect intended to DREDIOCK. So there I am on the deck in a fight, and what do I see but a 190A5 coming at me head on. True to what I said I didn't HO, but the 190 started blazing away head on and shot me down.
Who was it? DREDIOCK :)
I don't care, but having seen his comment in this thread, and having replied, it seemed appropriate :aok
Drediock fail? :lol
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the 190 A9 would be the easiest, quick addition
To what end? You want an A8 that's 10mph faster? Nose down for 1 second you get 10mph more.
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To what end? You want an A8 that's 10mph faster? Nose down for 1 second you get 10mph more.
Im sorry but this was low.
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To what end? You want an A8 that's 10mph faster? Nose down for 1 second you get 10mph more.
How diletant can you be?
That 10mph is a difference between life and death in an on the deck tail chase.
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I was going to say +10mph is pretty marginal, but then I remebered what a difference the remodelling of the mossie made to its ability. how many more mph did the mossie get last year? :headscratch:
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Mossie seems to have got closer to 20mph difference Holmes.
As for 10mph? I think too much reliance is put on 10mph. It is what it is, no doubt. However if the chase is that close you're going to have to do some manuvering anyways. I've been on the receiving end of a run-down too many times to count. I should be the one wanting the extra speed, but I don't want speed just as a means to surviving. It's not like the 190A8 is all that slow on the deck. You realize it does about 350 currently, right? That's pretty good. It'll outrun a spit16 at max speed by about 5mph, last I recall. (not out accelerate, mind you, just out-run)
You save 5-8mph alone by leaving the ETC rack off. I don't see that as stopping most folks from taking DTs on Fw190s, as long as they can drop it and instantly be in "fighting weight"...
It's really a minor gain. You can lose 10mph from simply being out of trim.
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It's really a minor gain. You can lose 10mph from simply being out of trim.
I wish i had that "really minor gain" when 10+ spits were chasing my g-6...
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anyway its not the plane, its the pilot. I know many spit16 heroes as a dedicated ho-n-runners, while i know many pilots who never run from a fight.
an example: Is the La-7 a dweeb or a tard plane? Is SF an L-ghey tard then? No cuz he uses its speed to catch the enemy not to run from them. Big difference.
Far as dweebery goes I agree. Its the pilot.
Your talking exceptions to the rule though of those who will fight it out.
I see at least just as many who either Ho and run Or Ho and dive to their ack.
My point was that there isnt a plane in the game that people dont do exactly the same thing as any other plane does
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Absolutely hilarious tonight, and with no disrespect intended to DREDIOCK. So there I am on the deck in a fight, and what do I see but a 190A5 coming at me head on. True to what I said I didn't HO, but the 190 started blazing away head on and shot me down.
Who was it? DREDIOCK :)
I don't care, but having seen his comment in this thread, and having replied, it seemed appropriate :aok
Entirely possible, But as I've mentioned many times in the arenas. I Ho in rataliation. If I hoed you it is because someone in the similar type plane has recently tried to or has HO me. And if 90% of the people in an area are hoing me. Then all bets are off. What goes around comes around
Exception to the rule is spits. I'll ho them almost any time because I have such a low opinion of them. Or if Im being ganged. And in the the case of the latter only sometimes.
In a reasonably fair fight though. You wont see me ho until I see it being done to me as its not my first preference. And even then not always. I dont HO far more then I do.
Reason I prefer not to is because you are just as likely to loose that type of engagement as win one. Probably why there are more MOH's that were awarded to pilots postmortem then to live ones.
A point proved to me yet again a couple of times in those A5 runs last night. 2 to tiffies, and 1 to a Ki84.
On the other hand. If you were around long enough. You did also see me mixing it up and not always running away unless I had a ton of people on me. which is often the case as soon as I collect a couple of kills, or I was really low on E. Or I was trying to RTB.
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To what end? You want an A8 that's 10mph faster? Nose down for 1 second you get 10mph more.
350 to 369 is 19 mph gain ;), so Yes!
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I agre with Krusty though - the best thing would be to get the weight changed on the A8. I would love to see an A9, an A model 190 that is an upgrade to the A5 that I fly sometimes (if in a pack 190, if alone 109) - but really, the A8 with 400 or so kgs removed would make the A8 a lot better to fly. . .
p.s. and please make the benifits of that armor more 'effective' especially around the engine and pilot. . .
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Entirely possible, But as I've mentioned many times in the arenas. I Ho in rataliation. If I hoed you it is because someone in the similar type plane has recently tried to or has HO me. And if 90% of the people in an area are hoing me. Then all bets are off. What goes around comes around
Exception to the rule is spits. I'll ho them almost any time because I have such a low opinion of them. Or if Im being ganged. And in the the case of the latter only sometimes.
In a reasonably fair fight though. You wont see me ho until I see it being done to me as its not my first preference. And even then not always. I dont HO far more then I do.
Reason I prefer not to is because you are just as likely to loose that type of engagement as win one. Probably why there are more MOH's that were awarded to pilots postmortem then to live ones.
A point proved to me yet again a couple of times in those A5 runs last night. 2 to tiffies, and 1 to a Ki84.
On the other hand. If you were around long enough. You did also see me mixing it up and not always running away unless I had a ton of people on me. which is often the case as soon as I collect a couple of kills, or I was really low on E. Or I was trying to RTB.
No worries DRED. No complaint on my part. Just thought it hilarious considering our back to back posts on it. The odds against us running into each other in that situation the same day had to be pretty high :)
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some more info on the A-9 models,they also had a little bit more rear armour and better rear vision like the D-9.....and they had two different engines available......one for most A-9 and one for the A-9 r-11 which was the bad weather/night fighter. acording to heinz nowarra(luftwaffe parts supplier during ww2and Luftwaffe historian) the A-9R11 was a little faster at altitude but slower on the deck than the std A-9....and they were used in daytime and during good weather...face it the Luftwaffe was using anything flyable in 1944late onwards.
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i like this idea plus 1