Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Meatwad on June 26, 2011, 10:58:35 AM
-
:bhead :bhead :bhead :mad:
Swear this stuff singles me out everytime
-
it can smell the sausage virgin within you... :P
-
Never got into poison-ivy, but I have poison-oak. That stuff is no fun either.
-
Supposedly, if you ingest poison ivy/oak, you will never get it. Makes sense. You won't be alive to get it. Poison ivy sucks, my first and only bout with it led to impetigo that almost went septic. :bhead
-
It sounds a bit crazy but plain old lye soap works great to remove the oil from you and your clothes. It also helps dry out the reaction your skin has to it.
-
http://www.zanfel.com/help/
I love this stuff.
-
I'm immune. :neener:
-
It is illegal for poison ivy and poison oak to grow in California. I can honestly say i have never seen it. I lived in nc for 9 years and it wasnt allowed to come near me or my family :cool:.
semp
-
I would never suggest anyone to do this unless you don't have sensitive skin, but I've always washed my arms really well with soap and a course rag and used a cotton ball full of bleach to kill it all out. The course rag opens it up and the bleach kills it and drys it out. By the next day it's still there but dried up and doesn't itch. I've seen people try it with sensitive skin though and the Bleach eats them up worse than the ivy. I used to weed eat for the City Parks and Recreation Dept. in my town. Where I got it on a daily basis and used this method quite a lot.
-
It is illegal for poison ivy and poison oak to grow in California. I can honestly say i have never seen it. I lived in nc for 9 years and it wasnt allowed to come near me or my family :cool:.
semp
I grew up on the coastal area in northern Cal (on the ocean and in the redwoods) Poison-oak was very common.
If any state would make a law prohibiting a native and wild growing plant it would be California.
:rofl
-
I would never suggest anyone to do this unless you don't have sensitive skin, but I've always washed my arms really well with soap and a course rag and used a cotton ball full of bleach to kill it all out. The course rag opens it up and the bleach kills it and drys it out. By the next day it's still there but dried up and doesn't itch. I've seen people try it with sensitive skin though and the Bleach eats them up worse than the ivy. I used to weed eat for the City Parks and Recreation Dept. in my town. Where I got it on a daily basis and used this method quite a lot.
I've used that method as well and it works good. Only thing I can add to it is it burns like the dickens.
-
It is illegal for poison ivy and poison oak to grow in California.
If any state would make a law prohibiting a native and wild growing plant it would be California.
No doubt, that kind of law is incredibly stupid. Who are they going to charge, Mother Nature?
-
No doubt, that kind of law is incredibly stupid. Who are they going to charge, Mother Nature?
:rofl imagine that case...the state of california v mother nature re: poison ivy/poison oak. :lol :rofl
-
:rofl imagine that case...the state of california v mother nature re: poison ivy/poison oak. :lol :rofl
It would never go to trial, or if it did, it was be a mistrial every time as Mother Nature has a habit of poisoning jury pools or at least rubbing them the wrong way.
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q98/rosetreeglass/RIMSHOT.jpg)
-
Ill have to try the bleach method. Think there is some oil residue somewhere since its spreading and I havent had contact with it since tuesday.
-
This is going to sound gross but you need to make sure that the affected areas have been scrubbed until they are weeping. If you don't think you can stand straight bleach you can cut it in a 1:1 mix with water. :aok
-
Poison is easy to id. If you notice later (6 hours) you have been in a patch, just take a good shower with soap. If you're ate up with the rash, see a doctor and get rid of it with a simple shot.
Rash
-
It sounds a bit crazy but plain old lye soap works great to remove the oil from you and your clothes. It also helps dry out the reaction your skin has to it.
THis is the best method ive found to get rid of it. :aok We get it from a small amish store near us, but i found it on line
http://www.grannyslyesoap.com/
-
I'm immune. :neener:
Haha me too
-
I'm immune. :neener:
Me too! But I'm pretty sure I got into poison oak one time and it tore me up. I've been through poison ivy many many times hunting and camping, never bothered me or anyone in my family. :rock
-
Me too! But I'm pretty sure I got into poison oak one time and it tore me up. I've been through poison ivy many many times hunting and camping, never bothered me or anyone in my family. :rock
I don't go into the woods often, but when I did the Police camp program we went hiking in Hollywood Georgia and a few people got poison ivy on their legs, I'm sure my legs touched every leaf theirs did but I was the one whom was fine at the end and didn't think much of it.
-
I think everyone is born immune. I lost a jig in a tree, then slid down it, and had open wounds because of sliding down the tree.
-
Amputaion at the neck Meatwad, it's the only cure man.
-
I'm immune. :neener:
Same here. I can roll in the stuff and not have an issue. My brother seems to get it if he comes within a few yards of the plant though.
-
Pfftt your poison ivy is a limp wristed weak little plant...
I present to you Onga Onga - a native NZ plant that carries a standard nettle poison plus another nasty poison (possibly a neurotoxin). It kills horses, dogs, stock, one person has been recorded as dying from it. I 'brushed' it once with a finger, only lightly, I after the burning sensation stopped I lost feeling in that finger for about a week.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Ongaonga_close-up.jpg/800px-Ongaonga_close-up.jpg)
The stinging hairs are very obvious on this nettle being some 6mm or more in length. Crowe describes them as being like a hypodermic syringe. “The slightest touch knocks off the tip of the needle leaving a slanting point that drives into the skin. The elastic barrel at the base of the needle immediately shrinks, pumping its venom into the victom. The extract from just one of these long, fat stinging hairs is sufficient to kill a guinea pig.”
Ongaonga contains the same poison as common garden nettle but also has another, as yet unidentified, poison. In severe cases of poisoning artificial respiration and injection of atropine may be necessary. Pain can be eased somewhat with calamine or antihistimine medication. Common along edges of forest (including forest tracks!) and regenerating scrub.
This photograph taken on Kapiti Island.
-
Pfftt your poison ivy is a limp wristed weak little plant...
I present to you Onga Onga - a native NZ plant that carries a standard nettle poison plus another nasty poison (possibly a neurotoxin). It kills horses, dogs, stock, one person has been recorded as dying from it. I 'brushed' it once with a finger, only lightly, I after the burning sensation stopped I lost feeling in that finger for about a week.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Ongaonga_close-up.jpg/800px-Ongaonga_close-up.jpg)
oooh, that plant has some evil possibilities :devil
does that plant grow rampant or is there some sort of natural control?
-
some kind of caterpillar eats it. But a couple of places I got there's some thickets that I give a very wide birth. It's the little ones that get you, you'll be bush bashing or doing something and not notice them.
-
some kind of caterpillar eats it. But a couple of places I got there's some thickets that I give a very wide birth. It's the little ones that get you, you'll be bush bashing or doing something and not notice them.
Process it into a salad and give it to the enemy :D
-
Hell if your going to go through the trouble to process it that are even better plant toxins to work with.
-
I meant just make it look like salad, but thinking of it now, how many terrorists eat salad :lol
-
I don't know about you but I know that there isn't any salad that looks like that. Personally I've been fond of messing with enemies by liberally spritzing their vehicles with doe estrus and then letting nature take it's course. :devil
-
:rofl
-
I'm immune to it, it's really nice :D
-
I used to get it every year as a kid. One time I had it so bad my eyes swelled shut for two days. Haven't had it now in over 20 years.
-
I didnt read to see if anyone else posted this, but... meatwad, use Mineral Spirits. It along with another chemical are the ONLY substance that can kill (dry out) the poison ivy once its one your skin. I had it about a week ago for only two days and i had it somewhat bad. This has also worked every time i have gotten it.
This is what i do
When it was itchy, i would scratch it until it was opened to relieve the itch. Then i would go and pour mineral spirits onto a paper towl so it was wet. Then i would rub the paper towl over the entire area that i had poison ivy. I would pour some more on the paper towl and do every other spot. I would only be itchy after waking from sleep. However, after 5 minutes of application, the itch was no longer there either and i didnt have to apply it until the next day. Now if it gets rubbed during the day alot you might need to reapply it later in the day.
Today i also touched a poison ivy leaf on accident while picking berries and i went in and washed my hands then went out and put some mineral spirits on it to kill any oil that might have been left on my skin.
It really does the trick.
edit: i just read the thread and some mentioned about sensitive skin. With mineral spirits, there is no burning or nothing. It just feels a little greasy for all of maybe three minutes until it dries completely.
-
gasoline. if it starts itching, itch it a little.. then dowse the area in gasoline. dries up the oils in it while the fumes from the gasoline evaporate.
-
I don't get poison ivy/oak, never have*. I once lead a friend on a hike, completely forgetting about that issue, through a lot of poison oak and he really got nailed. I felt kinda bad, but he didn't say anything about it while on the hike.
*I haven't tempted fate by aggressively rubbing the leaves and sap on my skin as a test, so I may just be resistant.
-
I don't get poison ivy/oak, never have*. I once lead a friend on a hike, completely forgetting about that issue, through a lot of poison oak and he really got nailed. I felt kinda bad, but he didn't say anything about it while on the hike.
*I haven't tempted fate by aggressively rubbing the leaves and sap on my skin as a test, so I may just be resistant.
got a friend who said that... decided to chew on some poison ivy. didnt swallow it, thank god.
-
So far been trying the bleach method, will see how things are in a few days
-
got a friend who said that... decided to chew on some poison ivy. didnt swallow it, thank god.
That would send a person into shock and close the air way due to inflammation, serious stuff right there.
-
also for those of you who might not know. NEVER burn poison ivy/oak/sumac. If you or anyone else inhails the smoke (which can travel hundreds of feet), you will get it in your lungs which is really dangerous. My sister inhailed it when a neighbor burned it when she was little and became really sick and was only some serious steroids.
-
Ive had it bad enough on the legs and arms that they were horrible swollen. I could take my finger and poke my leg and still have an indent in the skin about 1/2" deep after I removed the finger. Took some over the counter meds and it finally went down in a week or so.
-
That would send a person into shock and close the air way due to inflammation, serious stuff right there.
some scary stuff.
also for those of you who might not know. NEVER burn poison ivy/oak/sumac. If you or anyone else inhails the smoke (which can travel hundreds of feet), you will get it in your lungs which is really dangerous. My sister inhailed it when a neighbor burned it when she was little and became really sick and was only some serious steroids.
almost had a friend smoke it trying to be "cool"
NOTE: not the same friend who almost ate it. some area i live in...
-
some scary stuff.
almost had a friend smoke it trying to be "cool"
NOTE: not the same friend who almost ate it. some area i live in...
Why are people so stupid :huh
-
Why are people so stupid :huh
human nature.
ive got a rough area where i live. more inner city issues in the county i live in then the rest of the state (Springfield and Boston included in the poll)... in a farming based economy. tell me...why are people so stupid?
-
Ive had it bad enough on the legs and arms that they were horrible swollen. I could take my finger and poke my leg and still have an indent in the skin about 1/2" deep after I removed the finger. Took some over the counter meds and it finally went down in a week or so.
should of went to the doctors. they could have gave you some Steroids for that.
-
Never got into poison-ivy, but I have poison-oak. That stuff is no fun either.
I've had both. Happens in my line of work. Oak is worse IMO though.
The absolute worse case of poison oak I had I got from climbing a tree to get my favorite fishing lure back.
This tree was a menace and claimed a couple dozen lures over the years. Finally it claimed a lure I had made myself and was my favorite. There was no way to fish this thing wrong. About the only thing I didnt do with it is fly fish it.
Well one day I cast and released a tad too early and around the branch it went. I looked at it lined up to about 6 other rigs that were lined up next to it from various people. And I looked and looked and was getting more and more pissed "the hell with this Im gonna settle this once and for all" I finally said and went and got a bow saw out of my truck and attached it to my belt with a small bungee. This area around the trunk was so over grown with all kinds of stuff I didnt even notice as I was shimmying I was hugging a tree covered in the stuff till I was about 6 feet off the ground.
"Screw it. Its too late to do anything about it now" and up the tree I went, retrieved my lure and a few others then cut the branch solving once and for all that problem and shimmied back down the tree.
Now have you ever shimmied down a tree? Well if you have then you know that quite often your shirt will ride up your body exposing you from belt line to upper chest. Course I didnt think about this part when I was on my way up. I figured I'd shower it off when I got home and maybe get some on my arms and maybe my neck and that would be about it.
Nu uh. Within a few days from belt line to neck and both arms from the end of my short shirt sleeve down were noting but giant scabs. And this stuff not only itched. But literally hurt. It succccked big time. For some strange reason I only got a little bit on my face and non on the palms of my hands. and only a little on the backs of my hands.
Im guessing that because I didnt have my face buried in it going in either direction and because I kept fishing afterwards I probably washed it off my hands soon enough in the place I was fishing after handling the fish I caught.
But it was horrible.
Next time I just cut the whole tree down at the base
-
:bhead :bhead :bhead :mad:
Swear this stuff singles me out everytime
when i was young, i could roll around in the stuff, and never get it. i was cleaning out weeds around the back of my garage a few years ago. i saw the ivy there, and ignored it based on the above. never effing again. it got me good.
-
human nature.
ive got a rough area where i live. more inner city issues in the county i live in then the rest of the state (Springfield and Boston included in the poll)... in a farming based economy. tell me...why are people so stupid?
People are stupid because there isn't enough discipline anymore, because people are choosing to be stupid and their stupidity is affecting others
-
It sounds a bit crazy but plain old lye soap works great to remove the oil from you and your clothes. It also helps dry out the reaction your skin has to it.
I'd hang out with Granny. She makes more than lye soap... :banana:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc426/Coogan11/granny.jpg)
Coogan
easy on the eyes too...
-
blah... :bolt:
-
I'd hang out with Granny. She makes more than lye soap... :banana:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc426/Coogan11/granny.jpg)
Coogan
easy on the eyes too...
:rofl
-
I was totally serious about the lye soap idea. I've had poison oak and it was miserable. I got a touch of poison ivy last summer in Louisiana. The lye soap got rid of the oil off of my skin in one washing. When I did get the reaction, I am allergic to the damn stuff, I did the old tyme remedy. I used the lye soap again. I soaped up the area a second time and did not rinse it off. It took out the itch better than the calamine lotion and linocaine ointment. The nice thing is if you have a bar of the soap you just wet it a little bit and rub it on the skin irritation. It heals up very fast.
I also had a bad case of dry skin on my hands for over 6 months. The skin around the nails and all across the finger pads would split. It was like having dozens of paper cuts all the time. I tried everything to get the skin to stop drying and cracking. Nothing helped including prescription ointments. I tried the lye soap and inside of a week it cleared up. I wasn't going through ointment and band aids every night trying to soften up the skin and stop leaving blood on the sheets. I now order the soap online form a family that makes it in Arkansas. If my hands start to dry up I start suing the soap again and it stops right away.
The darn stuff can be used for laundry, bath soap and even to remove scent from your hunting clothes. Just don't dry them in the drier where you used drier sheets or it's a waste.
This is where I order the soap. They will send you a free sample bar. They have the best prices of anyone I have found yet. http://homemadelyesoap.net/
-
I've had both. Happens in my line of work. Oak is worse IMO though.
The absolute worse case of poison oak I had I got from climbing a tree to get my favorite fishing lure back.
This tree was a menace and claimed a couple dozen lures over the years. Finally it claimed a lure I had made myself and was my favorite. There was no way to fish this thing wrong. About the only thing I didnt do with it is fly fish it.
Well one day I cast and released a tad too early and around the branch it went. I looked at it lined up to about 6 other rigs that were lined up next to it from various people. And I looked and looked and was getting more and more pissed "the hell with this Im gonna settle this once and for all" I finally said and went and got a bow saw out of my truck and attached it to my belt with a small bungee. This area around the trunk was so over grown with all kinds of stuff I didnt even notice as I was shimmying I was hugging a tree covered in the stuff till I was about 6 feet off the ground.
"Screw it. Its too late to do anything about it now" and up the tree I went, retrieved my lure and a few others then cut the branch solving once and for all that problem and shimmied back down the tree.
Now have you ever shimmied down a tree? Well if you have then you know that quite often your shirt will ride up your body exposing you from belt line to upper chest. Course I didnt think about this part when I was on my way up. I figured I'd shower it off when I got home and maybe get some on my arms and maybe my neck and that would be about it.
Nu uh. Within a few days from belt line to neck and both arms from the end of my short shirt sleeve down were noting but giant scabs. And this stuff not only itched. But literally hurt. It succccked big time. For some strange reason I only got a little bit on my face and non on the palms of my hands. and only a little on the backs of my hands.
Im guessing that because I didnt have my face buried in it going in either direction and because I kept fishing afterwards I probably washed it off my hands soon enough in the place I was fishing after handling the fish I caught.
But it was horrible.
Next time I just cut the whole tree down at the base
you cant get anything on the palms of your hands. The skin is too thick for the oil to irritate it. The closest i have ever gotten anything to my palms is in the webs of my fingers.
-
you cant get anything on the palms of your hands. The skin is too thick for the oil to irritate it. The closest i have ever gotten anything to my palms is in the webs of my fingers.
Interesting, I was wondering earlier why I'd never got it on my palms. :aok
-
when i was young, i could roll around in the stuff, and never get it. i was cleaning out weeds around the back of my garage a few years ago. i saw the ivy there, and ignored it based on the above. never effing again. it got me good.
Same thing here. I seemed ot be immune to it growing up. Didnt have my first case of it till I was around 25. Now Im not oversensitive to it. but I do occasionally get it
-
you cant get anything on the palms of your hands. The skin is too thick for the oil to irritate it. The closest i have ever gotten anything to my palms is in the webs of my fingers.
Then why was I always told I would get hairy palms........ :noid :bolt:
-
Strange how some are bothered by poison ivey and some are not.
Hope you recover soon.
-
Then why was I always told I would get hairy palms........ :noid :bolt:
did you get hairy palms?
-
I'm one of the lucky ones who isn't allergic to it either. My wife, however, is very allergic so I still have to wash real good after messing around in the yard.
And shuffled if I remember correctly it's basically an allergic reaction caused by the oiit on the leafs. Unfortunately most folks are sensitive to it.
-
Strange how some are bothered by poison ivey and some are not.
Hope you recover soon.
Iseem to be immune - and many others are as well. The thing is, just as is the case with allergies, you can acquire or lose Poison Ivy sensitivity. That's why, no matter what, it's never good to play with it.
Of course, getting it into a cut or breathing burned Ivy leaves is potentially fatal.
As for Raptor's fatuous assessment of stupidity, I'd offer that they choose to be because others enable the choice. Does that make any sense? It should.
-
Don't forget to wash your hands after scratching and BEFORE handling your "business" :noid
Old stand-by around here is (authentic) lye soap http://www.felsnaptha.com/ (http://www.felsnaptha.com/) or a soak in the tub with some bleach (about a cup or two per tubful)
-
at least none of ya'll never had to deal with it like the incident I had when I had just turned 16 and got my drivers license.....
We went cruising, me and my friend met his cousin Roxanne and 2 other girls.... one of the girls ( Roxanne, my friend's cousin she was ) was flirting with me and I her so we decided to go drive and meet at
the park....... well Roxanne and I headed off down a walking path and laid down between some trees and a picnic table out of the parks lights..... it was dark and kind of hard to see, but the ground was soft and cushony.....
anyhow.... a week later I am calling up my friend and drove to his house, freaking out, and telling him his cousin gave me some damn disease.......... and his Mom and him
started telling me that his cosin's Mom and Cousin had been calling him and telling him the same thing.....
ROFL...... thank God we figured out we was laying in a poison oak patch........ I mean my face and my lower area was swollen and itching , the same with her. ROFL.....
that incident really made me take notice from that time on !!! don't laugh to hard now, and turn your head away from your monitor :aok
TC
-
at least none of ya'll never had to deal with it like the incident I had when I had just turned 16 and got my drivers license.....
We went cruising, me and my friend met his cousin Roxanne and 2 other girls.... one of the girls ( Roxanne, my friend's cousin she was ) was flirting with me and I her so we decided to go drive and meet at
the park....... well Roxanne and I headed off down a walking path and laid down between some trees and a picnic table out of the parks lights..... it was dark and kind of hard to see, but the ground was soft and cushony.....
anyhow.... a week later I am calling up my friend and drove to his house, freaking out, and telling him his cousin gave me some damn disease.......... and his Mom and him
started telling me that his cosin's Mom and Cousin had been calling him and telling him the same thing.....
ROFL...... thank God we figured out we was laying in a poison oak patch........ I mean my face and my lower area was swollen and itching , the same with her. ROFL.....
that incident really made me take notice from that time on !!! don't laugh to hard now, and turn your head away from your monitor :aok
TC
:rofl Winner!!!
-
:rofl Winner!!!
Actually, it was his wiener twas the winner - of both the fair Roxanne and a case of post-party rash.
-
WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!!!!!!
-
Best poison ivy story I've ever heard TC. :cheers:
-
I'm one of the lucky ones who isn't allergic to it either. My wife, however, is very allergic so I still have to wash real good after messing around in the yard.
And shuffled if I remember correctly it's basically an allergic reaction caused by the oiit on the leafs. Unfortunately most folks are sensitive to it.
Your correct about the oil.
-
I used to get it every year as a kid. One time I had it so bad my eyes swelled shut for two days. Haven't had it now in over 20 years.
From teh dark side:
Eye's swollen shut? You know that was your dad beating you for going into the woods without permission.
As it is with head trauma you just can't remember.
To avoid social services taking you confiscating you, he spread PI over your face.
:cheers:
-
Same here. I can roll in the stuff and not have an issue. My brother seems to get it if he comes within a few yards of the plant though.
Thats exactly how me and my brother are. I've actually rubbed a poison ivy plant between my hands so it would break it up and then rubbed it on my arms and it had absolutely no affect on me. My brother on the other hand is like yours. Just has to pass by it and he gets it. lol
-
That's a fantastic story, TC.
One of my old colleagues used to go on marathon adventures up and down the east coast, mainly sticking on or near the Appalachian Trail. During one of his summer cross-country trips, he found himself biking through the very hilly north-central region of PA. That day, he had covered some major distance and was physically exhausted. As light faded quickly it started to lightly rain, and instead of trying to make the next hotel he decided in his somewhat delusional state that the protected gully just off the road would do just as well. Five minutes and a chug of water later, he was asleep on the ground.
Two hours later, he woke up to realize he was laying in a bed of poison ivy, and was a knowledgeable enough woodsman to know it even in the dark. It was still raining and he was still exhausted, and he knew full well that it was too late; back to sleep he went.
Two days later when I saw him he was covered nearly head to toe in the nastiest rash I've ever encountered. Poor guy could barely function for almost a week. Always look before you lie! :aok
-
I read with horror the numerous suggestions to use bleach on a poison ivy blister. I took this advice from someone and boy was I sorry. I used a Q-tip and rubbed clorox bleach on the itchy little bump on my wrist. The next morning I woke up to a wrist full of huge, oozing, blisters. Those blisters grew and thousands of tiny blisters joined the gang and soon I had blisters on my chest, stomach, and thighs. After seeing the dermatologist, he told me it had gotten into my blood stream and spread. It took many weeks of medications and soaking the affected areas before my blisters cleared up. I would not recommend using bleach.
--"C. Gallant" (gallant1@NOSPAMpeoplepc.com) submitted 6/Jul/2003
I was thinking about some of the chemicals & salves for poison ivy.... like paint thinner, var sol, chlorine, alcohol, gasoline, toluene, benzine, phosgene, DDT & Alar, liquid nitrogen, Sarin, sulfuric acid, borane, T&Z-Stoff, uranium 232...and duct tape etc.
and who knows what else people "have on hand" in their backyard Los Alamos shed to conjure up. You can hear the stories at the Los Ojos Bar. :cool:
ME163 Komet Fuel would work too!!: T-Stoff "The volatile fuel could dissolve the flesh of pilots & ground crew in a matter of seconds. The pilot's flight suit, boots, underwear and gloves are made of a non-organic, nylon-like material. Clothing made of organic material like cotton would burst into flames on contact with the fuel."
Back to debbie-downer reality tho, what can be happening is that these aggressive substances simply temporarily scorch nerve endings....
and therefore anecdotal relief is "miraculous".
Opening up the blisters must be done with great care, if at all as blood poisoning is possible.
I used to get PI but long since decided a safe regimen: immediately remove any contaminated garment, immediately rinse/wash from a cooler or hose, dive in a lake or stream, or take the coldest showers soon as possible to close off skin pores from vulnerability.
-
I was totally serious about the lye soap idea. I've had poison oak and it was miserable. I got a touch of poison ivy last summer in Louisiana. The lye soap got rid of the oil off of my skin in one washing. When I did get the reaction, I am allergic to the damn stuff, I did the old tyme remedy. I used the lye soap again. I soaped up the area a second time and did not rinse it off. It took out the itch better than the calamine lotion and linocaine ointment. The nice thing is if you have a bar of the soap you just wet it a little bit and rub it on the skin irritation. It heals up very fast.
You are exactly correct. That is the tried and true old time remedy.
Gotta remember though when you use a soap for poison ivy,oak etc. To not use the perfumed soaps as they have oils in them that will only help to spread the condition. Any of those old granny all purpose soaps will do though. I used to carry a bar of octagon with my camping gear when I was a kid
(http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/public/4AGevg63jJ0HBZ1dLpWKMHBRBhVG_iVh4zXWRsIHkbSwSllC0ctWVdn6BaTEjVcoKtfMi4ruqAgRuFldvtOpw0vIJ4LGo4BlviphDIsXI4G_UAvFKpXLkphjMPIdPlgNRh4e2-nHabBYXyM--KlRdnhbOnDh9jQ21HB55g)
-
I was thinking about some of the chemicals & salves for poison ivy.... like paint thinner, var sol, chlorine, alcohol, gasoline, toluene, benzine, phosgene, DDT & Alar, liquid nitrogen, Sarin, sulfuric acid, borane, T&Z-Stoff, uranium 232...and duct tape etc.
and who knows what else people "have on hand" in their backyard Los Alamos shed to conjure up. You can hear the stories at the Los Ojos Bar. :cool:
ME163 Komet Fuel would work too!!: T-Stoff "The volatile fuel could dissolve the flesh of pilots & ground crew in a matter of seconds. The pilot's flight suit, boots, underwear and gloves are made of a non-organic, nylon-like material. Clothing made of organic material like cotton would burst into flames on contact with the fuel."
Back to debbie-downer reality tho, what can be happening is that these aggressive substances simply temporarily scorch nerve endings....
and therefore anecdotal relief is "miraculous".
Opening up the blisters must be done with great care, if at all as blood poisoning is possible.
I used to get PI but long since decided a safe regimen: immediately remove any contaminated garment, immediately rinse/wash from a cooler or hose, dive in a lake or stream, or take the coldest showers soon as possible to close off skin pores from vulnerability.
Different strokes for different folks, bleach clears it up for me and doesn't give me any other problems so I'll probably keep on keepin' on.
-
Freakin crap is still spreading, its gotta have some residual somewhere but dont know where it is. Doused about everything I know of in rubbing alcohol
And the part about getting it where it dont belong...........yeah........ ..... :cry
-
Freakin crap is still spreading, its gotta have some residual somewhere but dont know where it is. Doused about everything I know of in rubbing alcohol
And the part about getting it where it dont belong...........yeah........ ..... :cry
gasoline my friend. not a cheap route...but try it.
-
Just something about gasoline and the human body makes me think twice.........
-
Freakin crap is still spreading, its gotta have some residual somewhere but dont know where it is. Doused about everything I know of in rubbing alcohol
And the part about getting it where it dont belong...........yeah........ ..... :cry
im telling you, use mineral spirits
The real trick to completely wiping out a poison ivy rash is to kill the urushiol -- the oil which causes it.
This is actually quite easy to do. Mineral spirits kills Urushiol. A natural remedy is crushed jewel-weed leaves, but it may be hard to locate.
The only over-the-counter poison ivy medication which contains the Urushiol-killing mineral spirits is called Tecnu. By eliminating the root cause of the infection, Tecnu also prevents the spread of Urishiol oil to other parts of the body. Buy Tecnu, and follow all the instructions and warnings on its label.
-
That bit about jewel weed was echoed on dual survival last week. I noted it, ubt DID NOT enjoy that part as much as watching Cody Lundin eats nuts he'd picked out of elephant kerrap.
-
Meatwad. The liquid from the blisters will spread the poison ivy reaction. You need to wrap up your arms or wear clothing when you sleep to keep yourself from scratching in your sleep. Every place you scratch then rub another area will be spreading the reaction. The liquid contains the item your body manufactured from the original contamination to continue the histamine reaction without further oil remaining. You have to stop moving that blister liquid to other parts of your body until the reaction ends. It sucks pond scum I know.
-
Meatwad. The liquid from the blisters will spread the poison ivy reaction. You need to wrap up your arms or wear clothing when you sleep to keep yourself from scratching in your sleep. Every place you scratch then rub another area will be spreading the reaction. The liquid contains the item your body manufactured from the original contamination to continue the histamine reaction without further oil remaining. You have to stop moving that blister liquid to other parts of your body until the reaction ends. It sucks pond scum I know.
This, also make sure you change all your sheets and pillow cases every night until you feel the worse has passed. Should make sure you use a clean towl each time after you shower and of cource regular clean changes of clothes often. I'm on the mild to immune side of the stuff, I'm lucky in that it's only a mild irritant to my skin, but I still hate the stuff because I'll end up doing 4-5x the amount of normal laundry in a week. Sounds like you're on the more sensitive side to the stuff than most of us, it's gonna suck, sorry MW.
-
Just something about gasoline and the human body makes me think twice.........
It's something to seriously consider on short notice imediatley after contact and can be found on hand, gasoline breaks down the oil, similar to rubbing alcohol or paint thinner. IE: you're on a hike, you're lamost positive you brushed your forearm on a patch of the stuff, imediatley getting back to the cars, you bust out some gasoline or camping fuel (white gas we called the stuff - pre-propane era stuff) and a rag, get a good dose of it on the rag and carefuly try to scrub off what you can without spreading it (avoid smoking or any open flame until done and the vapors on your arm have evaporated, duh). It'll help, definetley more than if you did nothing until you get back home and can seriously scrub it.
-
It's something to seriously consider on short notice imediatley after contact and can be found on hand, gasoline breaks down the oil, similar to rubbing alcohol or paint thinner. IE: you're on a hike, you're lamost positive you brushed your forearm on a patch of the stuff, imediatley getting back to the cars, you bust out some gasoline or camping fuel (white gas we called the stuff - pre-propane era stuff) and a rag, get a good dose of it on the rag and carefuly try to scrub off what you can without spreading it (avoid smoking or any open flame until done and the vapors on your arm have evaporated, duh). It'll help, definetley more than if you did nothing until you get back home and can seriously scrub it.
everytime ive used the gas method, i havent scrubbed it afrter dowsing it. dowse it in gas, rub it in with the rag, let it evaporate and you should be good.
-
everytime ive used the gas method, i havent scrubbed it afrter dowsing it. dowse it in gas, rub it in with the rag, let it evaporate and you should be good.
White gas and then some soap+water later has done the trick for me about a half-dozen times (to the skin, if it got on my clothes, I get a fresh change), but I know I only have a mild reaction to the stuff anyways.
With MW it sounds like he's blistering and boiling, something that I don't think poison ivy/oak has ever made me do, so he might have a reaction just looking at the stuff because he's so sensitive.
-
With MW it sounds like he's blistering and boiling, something that I don't think poison ivy/oak has ever made me do, so he might have a reaction just looking at the stuff because he's so sensitive.
true true. im like you, i get it, but it isnt bad unless i scratch is mercilesly... which i know better then to do
-
I'd hang out with Granny. She makes more than lye soap... :banana:
(http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc426/Coogan11/granny.jpg)
Coogan
easy on the eyes too...
Actually she was very easy on the eyes,google Irene Dunn,check out how she looked when she was 30 or so!Now she wasnt quite a Rita Hayworth but she was a looker,I suggest you watch the movie "A guy named Joe"has some nice P38's in it too!
:salute
-
Actually it isnt making boils and juice like it has in years past. More of an annoying rash but some boild here and there. Bleach and rubbing alcohol seems to be taking its effect on the nasties. But afraid I may have to go to the doctor some point if it dont help.
I noticed that heat+sweat = spreading. Especially in chaffable areas :(
-
Actually it isnt making boils and juice like it has in years past. More of an annoying rash but some boild here and there. Bleach and rubbing alcohol seems to be taking its effect on the nasties. But afraid I may have to go to the doctor some point if it dont help.
I noticed that heat+sweat = spreading. Especially in chaffable areas :(
LOL *insert apropriate poison ivy for toilet paper joke here*. Oil is oil, just know thy enemy and hopefuly you'll avoid seeign the doc. I think oil binds or is attracted to sodium/salt, and of cource warm oil runs while cold oil tends to get more gummy.
As Maverick suggested, buy some rolled gause and wrap yourself up good where you're chaffing and it's spreading when you can't otherwise be laying down and spread eagle.
-
Actually she was very easy on the eyes,google Irene Dunn,check out how she looked when she was 30 or so!Now she wasnt quite a Rita Hayworth but she was a looker,I suggest you watch the movie "A guy named Joe"has some nice P38's in it too!
:salute
Actually it's Irene Ryan who played Granny.
-
Actually she was very easy on the eyes,google Irene Dunn,check out how she looked when she was 30 or so!Now she wasnt quite a Rita Hayworth but she was a looker,I suggest you watch the movie "A guy named Joe"has some nice P38's in it too!
:salute
FAIL! You lose teh intardnetz today. "Granny" was portrayed by Irene Ryan.
<edit: and her pix from her younger days... meh. but she was funny and hammed it up to the hilt on the hillbillies.>
:bolt:
-
Oops I made a mistake,always thought it was Irene Dunn who played granny,oh well open mouth insert foot! :o
:salute
-
Nah
Mixing up 2 brunette (when younger) Irenes from the same basic era wont climb very high on a list of big fails.
-
Nah
Mixing up 2 brunette (when younger) Irenes from the same basic era wont climb very high on a list of big fails.
Even if it's in a dark and sweaty car back seat and the Irene who isn't there happens to be your wife?
-
Supposedly, if you ingest poison ivy/oak, you will never get it.
I think there is a good chance you will die if you try this.
-
It is illegal for poison ivy and poison oak to grow in California. I can honestly say i have never seen it. I lived in nc for 9 years and it wasnt allowed to come near me or my family :cool:.
semp
Poison ivy grows in the eastern part of america. Poison oak is mainly in the west.
-
how can it be "illegal" for a plant to grow? thats like asking how marijuana can be illegal... but poison ivy/oak isnt "abused" like marijuana.
-
Sure, it's like pizza, personal taste, but here's some stunning actresses, back when they were real & not like today's manufactured kids of producers, Disney'ites who have no shape, no HTW. These kind who had real glamor and mystique....Faces: Lauren Bacall, Liz Taylor, Bods: Jane Mansfield, similar to Kim Kardashian ...the rest today are inert really, this side of Brazil.
What is it? This skinny stuff today, adolescents strutting sinew and ligaments, having no more shape than a pipe wrench? They wouldn't make nose-art from them.
And this all is quite relevant to poison ivy, I mean if you are going to languish away from yer girl a few days in toxic isolation festering with contagions & pustules ... :bolt:
-
What is it? This skinny stuff today, adolescents strutting sinew and ligaments, having no more shape than a pipe wrench? They wouldn't make nose-art from them.
I and many of my friends have non-American (mostly Asians but the occasional Euro) wives. It's just a local and anecdotal thing but I think it's got something to do with leathery weatherbeaten, ridden-hard/put away wet sort of lot-lizard girls that seem to be kind of common here these days. I see a lot of 'em in this college town. You cite one variety - the pretentious heroin chic ex-konzentrazioneslager girl. I can do without the type m'self.
This is not to say there aren't many good American women, just that there aren't enough, what with the "undesirables". Those last should just keep hanging at the bars with their tethers and wondering why they get treated like dirt always. (haaaw, haaaw). Just look for the bullseye tramp stamp on the small of the back... then walk away.
-
Geez, I'm sure that they'd be perfectly nice if you got to know them. Just because a girl is ugly doesn't mean that she doesn't have a heart of gold (I've learned that firsthand). Never judge a book by its cover, many girls in my school who look like prudes are quite open if you let them relax. Many girls whom many would judge as 'trashy' (in my opinion, there is no such thing as human beings who are trash) are some of the shyest I've ever met.
There's a great deal more to be experienced in actually talking to a person and learning about them than just judging them by the way they look.
-Penguin
-
Geez, I'm sure that they'd be perfectly nice if you got to know them.
-Penguin
Penguin, do you see anywhere in my post where I make reference to their looks? Did it occur that leathery and weatherbeaten, not to mention pretentious, undesirable, or "tethered" has much more to do with behavior than looks? You're very young. I will offer you this: learn to set standards for acceptable conduct in those with whom you associate 1. not too high, or they will be impossible to attain and you'll find yourself alone, 2. not too low or you will become a human garbage dump, willing to accept anything.
I recognize that there is a school of thought that thinks all behaviors are equally acceptable. I didn't go to that school.
-
Penguin, do you see anywhere in my post where I make reference to their looks? Did it occur that leathery and weatherbeaten, not to mention pretentious, undesirable, or "tethered" has much more to do with behavior than looks? You're very young. I will offer you this: learn to set standards for acceptable conduct in those with whom you associate 1. not too high, or they will be impossible to attain and you'll find yourself alone, 2. not too low or you will become a human garbage dump, willing to accept anything.
I recognize that there is a school of thought that thinks all behaviors are equally acceptable. I didn't go to that school.
I googled their definitions and they were all visual adjectives. You are either using them as slang (which is wrong to assume that everyone knows) or just do not understand their definitions.
I very well know what pretentious means, and if you stop enabling the behavior, they will stop acting that way. There are many pretentious people out there with very good reasons to be so, but even more of them don't have any.
Tethered? Do you mean emotionally dependent? I've met those people, they're quite frightening, but I've learned to see past it and be nice to them anyway.
You seem to have taken my notions too far. I did not mean that I will always tolerate any kind of behavior. I meant that I will never condemn any person as 'undesirable', but focus on what they've actually done. My reason for this is that judging an entire person by their actions is inductive reasoning, which is unsound. Take the black swan paradox as an example.
Behavior that I will not tolerate include: bullying, crime, violence, and acting upon extremist notions (this includes anything listed under Rule #14). However, I'm cool with anything else. There's a way to deal with any behavior or condition, one only needs to manage the negative aspects and enjoy the positive ones. For instance, I was always mean to the kids with mental conditions; after telling a joke about them to one of my friends, he went on a rant about how cruel it was. I then realized my mistake, and found ways to not be such a d-bag to them.
-Penguin
-
Tethered? Do you mean emotionally dependent?
You seem to have taken my notions too far. I did not mean that I will always tolerate any kind of behavior. I meant that I will never condemn any person as 'undesirable', but focus on what they've actually done. My reason for this is that judging an entire person by their actions is inductive reasoning, which is unsound. Take the black swan paradox as an example.
-Penguin
Tethered... electronically, or at least fit to be.
Otherwise, All you can judge is actions. No, don't judge the person. Judge the action. The total history of action will write the book on the person, judgment of which is somebody/thing else's call. Otherwise, if Black Swan advances some notion of the Inner Dynamic (aka, the "heart of gold"), I now know that I need not bother with it.
My theme is coherent. It's all about behavior. You can try to peer into souls if you like.
-
I still don't understand what you mean by electronically tethered. The description is a bit vague, would you mind elaborating?
Now on to your next quote:
Otherwise, All you can judge is actions. No, don't judge the person. Judge the action.
-snip-
My theme is coherent. It's all about behavior. You can try to peer into souls if you like.
That sounds fine and dandy, but wait:
I and many of my friends have non-American (mostly Asians but the occasional Euro) wives. It's just a local and anecdotal thing but I think it's got something to do with leathery weatherbeaten, ridden-hard/put away wet sort of lot-lizard girls that seem to be kind of common here these days. I see a lot of 'em in this college town. You cite one variety - the pretentious heroin chic ex-konzentrazioneslager girl. I can do without the type m'self.
This is not to say there aren't many good American women, just that there aren't enough, what with the "undesirables". Those last should just keep hanging at the bars with their tethers and wondering why they get treated like dirt always. (haaaw, haaaw). Just look for the bullseye tramp stamp on the small of the back... then walk away.
This quote makes me think otherwise. You seem to be very focused on judging the person. :ahand
The total history of action will write the book on the person, judgment of which is somebody/thing else's call. Otherwise, if Black Swan advances some notion of the Inner Dynamic (aka, the "heart of gold"), I now know that I need not bother with it.
Unfortunately, you've missed the point. Unless you have observed them for every moment of their life, you will never be able to fully judge them (this excludes those who have had biographies written about them or have written autobiographies). Therefore, the time that you will know them is but a portion of their life, which cannot be used to judge their entire life (which you seem to have quite self-contradictory stances on).
-Penguin
-
Unfortunately, you've missed the point. Unless you have observed them for every moment of their life, you will never be able to fully judge them (this excludes those who have had biographies written about them or have written autobiographies). Therefore, the time that you will know them is but a portion of their life, which cannot be used to judge their entire life (which you seem to have quite self-contradictory stances on).
-Penguin
What did I say, Penguina? Let me repeat it. You judge the action. Don't judge the person. I left that specifically to someone/thing else (some would call this God). You've turned my statement 180 degrees and misrepresented it. I was quite specific. This ties in to your confusion, perhaps, with tethering. An electronic tether is something a parolee earns as a reward for bad BEHAVIOR. Society, and the law judge such commonly, as do I. Study my quote. What do I say about pattern BEHAVIOR. Words have meanings, Penguina.
I'll add, to help you out, that yes, you can look at and SEE a tether. This is a visual cue that someone has engaged in past faulty decision-making that has led to bad behavior. Is that judging the person? It need not be. It could be a simple deduction of the person's recent behavior and desireability of same. In either case, I'd counsel you to avoid those who wear a tether. If that's too judgmental for you, then perhaps you should spend more time with parolees to test my assertion. You need not take my word for it.
Finally, you claimed to have looked up the adjectives (and I'm inferring), "leathery, weatherbeaten, ridden hard/put away wet, lot lizard" and come down with "all visual" definitions. I assert you did no such thing since clearly those characterizations (pertinent to CHARACTER) are clearly figurative and only one could be discerned visually anyway. File that under nice try.
-
So you've stooped to name calling, brilliant :lol
I have not turned your statement around. You have. You are contradicting yourself. First, you judged these girls, and then you say to only judge actions. This is a textbook example of self contradiction.
Your explanation of electronic tethering was just plain old condescension.
Your point on pattern behavior is unsound, and you find out why on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning)
-Penguin
-
I and many of my friends have non-American (mostly Asians but the occasional Euro) wives. It's just a local and anecdotal thing but I think it's got something to do with leathery weatherbeaten, ridden-hard/put away wet sort of lot-lizard girls that seem to be kind of common here these days. I see a lot of 'em in this college town. You cite one variety - the pretentious heroin chic ex-konzentrazioneslager girl. I can do without the type m'self.
This is not to say there aren't many good American women, just that there aren't enough, what with the "undesirables". Those last should just keep hanging at the bars with their tethers and wondering why they get treated like dirt always. (haaaw, haaaw). Just look for the bullseye tramp stamp on the small of the back... then walk away.
There are women like that all over the world. My wife laughs when she the ol' tramp stamp. Advertising rental space. :)
-
So you've stooped to name calling, brilliant :lol
I have not turned your statement around. You have. You are contradicting yourself. First, you judged these girls, and then you say to only judge actions. This is a textbook example of self contradiction.
Your explanation of electronic tethering was just plain old condescension.
Your point on pattern behavior is unsound, and you find out why on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning)
-Penguin
Name calling? For penguina? Please.
As for my point on pattern behavior, no, it's sound and there is no induction needed.. I'm making the point that behavior and judgment of same are entirely separate from judgment of the person - and you refuse to acknowledge this for reason I cannot discern.
Try this purely deductive example:1. Mary wears a probation tether. 2. Probation tethers are assigned to 100% of people on probation. 3. Therefore, Mary is on probation.
Where's the induction? As for condescension, I deny it. You asked and I answered. Don't ask questions if you don't want 'em answered. I stand by my assertion that you can see signs of past behavior written all over people. You may disagree. Show me a woman who's smoked for 30 years and I'll be able to point that out. Don't like it? Develop your own criteria and live by 'em. Check back in 20 years and we'll see how good they were.
Just don't ask me to put on blinders and go there with you.
-
There are women like that all over the world. My wife laughs when she the ol' tramp stamp. Advertising rental space. :)
You're right, of course. I was in Iceland recently but that's a bad example - or too "good" an example, really. There's a low instance of tramp-stamping and a very high rate of Nordic Goddess there. Italy, otoh, especially Naples, offered a godawfully large contingent of "dock rats" doubtless more accustomed to visitors from the 6th fleet.
However, I note that "that kind of behavior" seems to be quite rare in the immigrant cohort of which I speak. Not, to placate the whatevah crowd, that there's anything wrong with any of it. Hey, it's just about that with which I choose to associate.
-
Name calling? For penguina? Please.
As for my point on pattern behavior, no, it's sound and there is no induction needed.. I'm making the point that behavior and judgment of same are entirely separate from judgment of the person - and you refuse to acknowledge this for reason I cannot discern.
Try this purely deductive example:1. Mary wears a probation tether. 2. Probation tethers are assigned to 100% of people on probation. 3. Therefore, Mary is on probation.
Where's the induction? As for condescension, I deny it. You asked and I answered. Don't ask questions if you don't want 'em answered. I stand by my assertion that you can see signs of past behavior written all over people. You may disagree. Show me a woman who's smoked for 30 years and I'll be able to point that out. Don't like it? Develop your own criteria and live by 'em. Check back in 20 years and we'll see how good they were.
Just don't ask me to put on blinders and go there with you.
Name calling is name calling, there's no two ways around it.
Your point is a statement of the obvious. It's like saying that an apple is very different from an orange. However, my point is that at first your condemned and denigerated those girls (and not their actions, mind you), and then advocated judgement of action rather than judgement of the person. Your blinder comment is quite ironic, as you seemed to have missed this great change in your argument.
Here is a quote of you judging the girls, and not their actions
I and many of my friends have non-American (mostly Asians but the occasional Euro) wives. It's just a local and anecdotal thing but I think it's got something to do with leathery weatherbeaten, ridden-hard/put away wet sort of lot-lizard girls that seem to be kind of common here these days. I see a lot of 'em in this college town. You cite one variety - the pretentious heroin chic ex-konzentrazioneslager girl. I can do without the type m'self.
This is not to say there aren't many good American women, just that there aren't enough, what with the "undesirables". Those last should just keep hanging at the bars with their tethers and wondering why they get treated like dirt always. (haaaw, haaaw). Just look for the bullseye tramp stamp on the small of the back... then walk away.
[/color]
In the above quote, one can clearly see the judgement of these girls as 'undesirables'. Now, you can clearly see how you turned your position on its head:
Tethered... electronically, or at least fit to be.
Otherwise, All you can judge is actions. No, don't judge the person. Judge the action. The total history of action will write the book on the person, judgment of which is somebody/thing else's call. Otherwise, if Black Swan advances some notion of the Inner Dynamic (aka, the "heart of gold"), I now know that I need not bother with it.
My theme is coherent. It's all about behavior. You can try to peer into souls if you like.
You are openly self contradicting.
Now, onto your notion of being able to tell what people were like based upon how they behave today. Conider basic training in the army. In only a few weeks, civilians are reprogrammed to move toward loud noises, danger, and bullets while simultaneously killing fellow human beings with a variety of weapons. War reinforces these notions, and those who go through combat are never the same.
Your notion of the unchanging personality is flawed. Otherwise, boot camp would never work.
-Penguin
PS: We're hijacking this thread, would you like to continue via PMs?
-
No, absolutely not. You're making an induction yourself. You THINK you know what was going through my head when I wrote this.
First, as for "name calling", it was never intended as diminutive. Fine, I'll call you Penguin. I'm really not sure why you care. People refer to me as 'zilla frequently. I don't take it as diminutive - even though it's a modification.
Let me explain wh yI see no self-contradiction and why I think you're making an induction yourself:
1. My evaluation of a person's past behavior, as manifested outwardly, is for the purpose of deciding whether they are a desirable associate. I'd draw sharp distinction between this and "judging the person as good/bad". After all, have you never deemed someone an undesireable associate yet also an entirely good and worthy person?
2. Even a judgment of bad behavior need not imply bad person. You seem to be making that equation. I am not interested in the extrapolation, just choosing associates.
The way it might work in practice is that you look at someone and get an intuitive read based on cues. Honestly, in most cases, my intuitive read is pretty neutral. the vast majority of people neither interest nor repel me. However, let's say I see a woman smoking, then hear her speak in a gravelly voice. I might say, that's kind of gross - and it is. Yet I recognize that doesn't means he's a bad person or even that I think she is. However, it might mean that I choose not to associate -and that was the nature of my guidance - choosing an assoicate. It had NOTHING t odo with evaluating the person as good/bad. That was the direction you took us. I had nothing to say on that matter until you attemped to put words in my mouth.
Now, I'll admit, in the case of a parolee, I might also be included to dismiss the person as a miscreant. Admittedly, that's a fundamental judgment. However, it's also exceptional.
So, you see, my "switch" was not one at all. I discussed guidance for choosing your company. you changed it to "rules of judgment". I told you my own.
-
Now, as a following corollary and for the sake of the argument, let's ask you what you've got against someone discrimating enough to consciously choose their associates. Your reaction to such a concept seems viscerally negative, dare I say, excessively judgmental (and by transit, therefore also hypocritical)?
Yet I would ask you if you do not do the same yourself in choosing your friends? So why carry the pretense that such is bad or wrong?
You see, just because an La-7 can climb to 30k it doesn't... (and so on).
One additional point, beware the word "seem", for the chasm between seems and is often yawns. That's part of the reason I used it above. See if you can take advantage of it.
Otherwise, recognize I have not judged you a bad person for this entertaining exchange.
-
Who knew poison ivy had so many hidden meanings :rofl
-
Godzilla, i hate to pee on your parade, but if its a living being with a checkered past, there is a hope they can change. give them the right person, with the right reasons at the right time. seen it first hand a few times... :aok
im not gonna get into a meat-measuring contest with you, it isnt worth my time... but just because the person isnt desireable because theyve had their share of sleeping around or what have you, doesnt mean they arent worth a chance. who knows... they could be the one you spend yer life with.
:cheers:
-
Who knew poison ivy had so many hidden meanings :rofl
Are you insinuating we got off topic?
Consider how you might react if you were to see a woman with a parole tether and a bad case of poison ivy. Would you be thinking about trying to tap that or would you head for the hills? In either case, would you be making your conclusion based on some judgment of who she was as a person (whatever that means) or based on the emblems of her poor judgment with regard to woodland conduct? Would you make a mental note to come back after the poison ivy and tether were gone or would you write her off completely? Would your conclusion distinguish between your desire to associate with her and your judgment of her as a person?
Stretch? Maybe.
What if you were approached by a creepy looking dude with a beard and a bad case of poison ivy? How would you react if he approached, arms akimbo, and said, "Don't judge me! Give me a huuuug"?
-
you see Godzilla... your one of those types. you see one thing negative and assume the world that person lives in and the life they lead ia negative one. youd be surprised how down to earth some of the ugliest people are.....
-
Godzilla, i hate to pee on your parade, but if its a living being with a checkered past, there is a hope they can change. give them the right person, with the right reasons at the right time. seen it first hand a few times... :aok
im not gonna get into a meat-measuring contest with you, it isnt worth my time... but just because the person isnt desireable because theyve had their share of sleeping around or what have you, doesnt mean they arent worth a chance. who knows... they could be the one you spend yer life with.
:cheers:
No meat measurement required... My point had nothing to do with some kind of "I am God and darn you to heck." If you want the back story, I can tell you in PM. I'll say this: people DO change. I will also tell you, and I've worked with the "type", typically it takes some pain (often rooted in just the type of rejection I'm talking about) and, also typically, the behavior has to change before the thinking does not the other way around. Make no mistake - the world reacts to behavior, not inner dynamics. This applies whether it is a question of association or judgment. Like I say, I chuckle because I've got about twenty years of experience in working with people who want to turn their lives around (not the day job, for sure)- and would welcome talking with you about it off-public.
-
my thougbhts are just the other way around, the person has to want to change before they will change. if they dont have the mental will/want/drive/self motivation they will go back to their old ways. my thoughts.
-
my thougbhts are just the other way around, the person has to want to change before they will change. if they dont have the mental will/want/drive/self motivation they will go back to their old ways. my thoughts.
Yes. That's often called a "displacement" or spiritual experience. But it won't deliver - it only gets 'em in the door. It's necessary but not sufficient - my experience, anyway, at least with compulsive/habituals.
-
Yes. That's often called a "displacement" or spiritual experience. But it won't deliver - it only gets 'em in the door. It's necessary but not sufficient - my experience, anyway, at least with compulsive/habituals.
but you must get in the door in order to suceed at changing. :aok
-
but you must get in the door in order to suceed at changing. :aok
Absolutely. Usually, though, there's some pain involved in acquiring readiness. You've got a clue here. We should take this to pm.
-
shall we take it to PM? no reaso nto hijack further...
-
No, absolutely not. You're making an induction yourself. You THINK you know what was going through my head when I wrote this.
First, as for "name calling", it was never intended as diminutive. Fine, I'll call you Penguin. I'm really not sure why you care. People refer to me as 'zilla frequently. I don't take it as diminutive - even though it's a modification.
Let me explain wh yI see no self-contradiction and why I think you're making an induction yourself:
1. My evaluation of a person's past behavior, as manifested outwardly, is for the purpose of deciding whether they are a desirable associate. I'd draw sharp distinction between this and "judging the person as good/bad". After all, have you never deemed someone an undesireable associate yet also an entirely good and worthy person?
2. Even a judgment of bad behavior need not imply bad person. You seem to be making that equation. I am not interested in the extrapolation, just choosing associates.
The way it might work in practice is that you look at someone and get an intuitive read based on cues. Honestly, in most cases, my intuitive read is pretty neutral. the vast majority of people neither interest nor repel me. However, let's say I see a woman smoking, then hear her speak in a gravelly voice. I might say, that's kind of gross - and it is. Yet I recognize that doesn't means he's a bad person or even that I think she is. However, it might mean that I choose not to associate -and that was the nature of my guidance - choosing an assoicate. It had NOTHING t odo with evaluating the person as good/bad. That was the direction you took us. I had nothing to say on that matter until you attemped to put words in my mouth.
Now, I'll admit, in the case of a parolee, I might also be included to dismiss the person as a miscreant. Admittedly, that's a fundamental judgment. However, it's also exceptional.
So, you see, my "switch" was not one at all. I discussed guidance for choosing your company. you changed it to "rules of judgment". I told you my own.
If that is the case, then, your point about the girls being 'undesirables' was that they were parolees? That does seem to make a bit more sense then, seeing a parolee shotgunning beer after beer at a bar while smoking is enough to put anyone off.
The way you said it seemed was extreemly judgemental, though. I mean, with the defamatory portmanteau and calling them tramps, along with anecdotes about your wife laughing at them, it seemed like you were bent on caricturing them (for better or worse) as woebegone drunkard trolls (and not the internet kind).
That is an interesting meta-argument, but wouldn't all replies to posts then be inductions?
Now, as a following corollary and for the sake of the argument, let's ask you what you've got against someone discrimating enough to consciously choose their associates. Your reaction to such a concept seems viscerally negative, dare I say, excessively judgmental (and by transit, therefore also hypocritical)?
Yet I would ask you if you do not do the same yourself in choosing your friends? So why carry the pretense that such is bad or wrong?
You see, just because an La-7 can climb to 30k it doesn't... (and so on).
One additional point, beware the word "seem", for the chasm between seems and is often yawns. That's part of the reason I used it above. See if you can take advantage of it.
Otherwise, recognize I have not judged you a bad person for this entertaining exchange.
The idea that criticizing someone's approach to selecting company is judgement of their entire self is absurd, as it would make any conversation on the topic impossible. In the direct sense, I have never made a comment about you, only your statements.
What do you mean by entertaining? :headscratch:
-Penguin
-
What you'r epicking up was an intent to be provocative. But remember, I said "walk away". That's all about "no" on association.
You're entertaining because you're young enough that you can avoid mistakes. Remember: a smart guy learns from his own mistakes but a genius learns from the mistakes of others.
And it's shuffler's wife who laughs at 'em - though mine might too, I suppose.
-
What you'r epicking up was an intent to be provocative. But remember, I said "walk away". That's all about "no" on association.
You're entertaining because you're young enough that you can avoid mistakes. Remember: a smart guy learns from his own mistakes but a genius learns from the mistakes of others.
And it's shuffler's wife who laughs at 'em - though mine might too, I suppose.
It's late and I'm tired, do you mind providing a quote?
-Penguin
-
EDIT: manners....
-
It's late and I'm tired, do you mind providing a quote?
-Penguin
It's early, not at all - but to which? Shuffler's post appears just up this thread a bit.
One other thing to which I meant to reply - yes, you are correct (per you last post) that "The idea that criticizing someone's approach to selecting company is judgement [sic] of their entire self is absurd". My statement was intended to point out exactly that, thus underlining the distinction I was trying to draw via the time-honored debate method known as "reductio ad absurdum" (obviously, reduction to absurdity). Cast in such a light, what was originally couched in provocative and very negative-sounding language now "seems" a lot more ordinary and rational. Like I say, beware the way things "seem". You've clearly got some background in philosophy - use it, especially methods of logic, to conduct the drudgework of analysis to get past "seems". I contend you plug that word in as alias for an intuition that could be reliable, but not without more practice.
-
Additionally, Penguin, for a good examination of this topic couched in humor, I can recommend a book. It's Stephen Fry's most obscure but, imj, best book. It's called "the Hippopotamus". This is subtle and slippery subject matter but if you're interested, I can actually send you my old copy, which is only gathering dust.
-
It was midnight where I was from, and like my mom always said, never take candy (or anything for that matter) from strangers. ;) If I need it, I can get one off Amazon (bookworm dad FTW :rock). So in the end, what you were trying to say was that these parolee girls put you off because they wore tethers? Ouch, that's harsh (unless other things such as drug use or barfights were involved). You're right about the my use of the word 'seem', I've realized that I use it to mask leaps of logic via my dull intuition.
How do you older guys get so smart? Is there any way not to become crotchety, jaded and prejudiced as a senior citizen?
-Penguin
-
How do you older guys get so smart? Is there any way not to become crotchety, jaded and prejudiced as a senior citizen?
-Penguin
It happens quite naturally as all the simplistic notions of youth get obliterated by hard lessons of experience. I'm ahead of the curve, since I'm not a Senior. Now tell me how a 13 y.o. with no education beyond middle school happens to come to know it all?
Unfair - I know. When I was your age I couldn't be told anything either. You will learn, and I hope not the hard way, that the company you choose will have consequences. If you choose to believe that people don't signal constantly and reliably, so be it. If you believe that people further down the road have learned nothing, then I guess you have no reason to engage them in dialog.
-
It happens quite naturally as all the simplistic notions of youth get obliterated by hard lessons of experience. I'm ahead of the curve, since I'm not a Senior. Now tell me how a 13 y.o. with no education beyond middle school happens to come to know it all?
Unfair - I know. When I was your age I couldn't be told anything either. You will learn, and I hope not the hard way, that the company you choose will have consequences. If you choose to believe that people don't signal constantly and reliably, so be it. If you believe that people further down the road have learned nothing, then I guess you have no reason to engage them in dialog.
Simplistic as in naive or fundamentalist? Both sound frightening. I don't disagree that the company one keeps carries consequences, I'm arguing that not every single person who has done something wrong in their lifetime is a horrible person.
-Penguin
-
Simplistic as in naive or fundamentalist? Both sound frightening. I don't disagree that the company one keeps carries consequences, I'm arguing that not every single person who has done something wrong in their lifetime is a horrible person.
-Penguin
but you see, there is always a chance of relapse on their wrong doings. change needs to come to the person, and then they need to continue associating with the right crowd to keep the change and not relapse. if you do heroin, go to rehab, come home sober but hang out with your dealers a year dfown the road, how likely do you think it is you wont start again?
-
Simplistic as in naive or fundamentalist? Both sound frightening. I don't disagree that the company one keeps carries consequences, I'm arguing that not every single person who has done something wrong in their lifetime is a horrible person.
-Penguin
Clearly. If it were, we'd all be horrible. But go back to my analogy of the woman 30-year smoker. First, she's not a horrible person. Second, what's written in her gravelly voice is the practice of 30 years, not a furtive teenage puff.
-
but you see, there is always a chance of relapse on their wrong doings. change needs to come to the person, and then they need to continue associating with the right crowd to keep the change and not relapse. if you do heroin, go to rehab, come home sober but hang out with your dealers a year dfown the road, how likely do you think it is you wont start again?
That's entirely correct, imj, Masonz. The same man will do the same thing - and "same" here is defined by his behavior, which includes his associations.
-
justy one more thing i seen when i was 15, not with heroin, but with weed and a few of my buddies.
-
Why don't you guys just get a room.
:huh
-
why is it every time I see an argument on here penguin is somehow involved?
-
It's sampling bias. I'm on here all the time.
-Penguin
-
On a lighter story, bleach and rubbing alcohol did the trick.
On the bad patches of the poison ivy rash, very hot water made it itch like hell and then felt soooooo good to scratch it. Actually looked forward in the day to do it. Think I may have found a new fetish :D Anyways scratched it all open then put the bleach/alcohol on it. Burnt like a MF but it worked :)
-
very interesting the way that "toxin" works.
-
justy one more thing i seen when i was 15, not with heroin, but with weed and a few of my buddies.
Pot has absolutely NO addictive properties, it's completely different than hard drugs. Caffeine is more addicting.
-
It depends very strongly on the person. One can become emotionally dependent on anything.
-Penguin
-
It depends very strongly on the person. One can become emotionally dependent on anything.
-Penguin
Mentally yes, physically no. Mental addiction of anything is for the weak. If you have that little control over your own mind.... :bhead
-
Mentally yes, physically no. Mental addiction of anything is for the weak. If you have that little control over your own mind.... :bhead
Physically yes. the body produces its own relaxing hormones. when those are replaced by drugs the body does not produce as much naturally. therefore when you take away the drugs the body is left without the hormones. this can lead to anxiety until the body begins to produce the hormones to normal levels again. :old:
-
Doesn't pot have effects later in life, something about flashbacks or time lapses I heard? Of course the people who do it deny that it has any negative effects and only positive out comes.
-
Physically yes. the body produces its own relaxing hormones. when those are replaced by drugs the body does not produce as much naturally. therefore when you take away the drugs the body is left without the hormones. this can lead to anxiety until the body begins to produce the hormones to normal levels again. :old:
Link? I don't mean to some bs government propaganda.
Doesn't pot have effects later in life, something about flashbacks or time lapses I heard? Of course the people who do it deny that it has any negative effects and only positive out comes.
Are you sure your not thinking about lsd?
-
Are you sure your not thinking about lsd?
I'm fairly certain I heard pot, but I could be wrong
-
Link?
please refer to ----> :old:
-
please refer to ----> :old:
I don't really care how old you are... proof? THC isn't naturally produced in anything but cannabis. So I'm not sure where your getting that it is produced in the body.
-
that's the wonder of science. a compound does not need to be exact to positively interact with biological receptors or enzymes. it only needs to fit in the "key hole". why do you think pot works? :old:
-
I get what your saying. Our body does slow the production anandamine after partaking, but I still don't believe it is physically addicting. To each his own I guess.
-
worst thing about pot is wasting time, losing your job, or going to jail. the first reason is a goal enjoyed by everyone. the latter two reasons our society is at fault for and is just wrong. Alchohol and tobacco KILL millions every year yet are legal. quite hypocritical to go after people for smoking pot.
-
worst thing about pot is wasting time, losing your job, or going to jail. the first reason is a goal enjoyed by everyone. the latter two reasons our society is at fault for and is just wrong. Alchohol and tobacco KILL millions every year yet are legal. quite hypocritical to go after people for smoking pot.
Now this, I 100% have to agree with.
-
On a lighter story, bleach and rubbing alcohol did the trick.
On the bad patches of the poison ivy rash, very hot water made it itch like hell and then felt soooooo good to scratch it. Actually looked forward in the day to do it. Think I may have found a new fetish :D Anyways scratched it all open then put the bleach/alcohol on it. Burnt like a MF but it worked :)
Glad to hear that it worked meatwad. I'm honestly surprised it took so long to work. I don't get it all that bad though so usually by the next day its dried up.
-
Think my problem was that the oil was lingering on work related equipment and I kept getting it back on me. Drowned everything I use and touched in alcohol over and over again which finally got it. Still an itch here and there but the worst is gone :)
-
Think my problem was that the oil was lingering on work related equipment and I kept getting it back on me. Drowned everything I use and touched in alcohol over and over again which finally got it. Still an itch here and there but the worst is gone :)
dont itch the "here and there" itch. dont want it all starting over again and goin back to square one. congrats on gettin it figured out though! :rock