Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SEViper on July 01, 2011, 01:46:33 PM
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:salute
As I'm sure all German iron pilots can attest, the ju-87 g series transformed tank war forever.
I would love to see the ju-87 g-2 with the 37mm gun pods come to Ah.
I would also like the horns of Jericho added to the dive brakes.
Salute,
Viper-screaming eagles!!
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:salute
As I'm sure all German iron pilots can attest, the ju-87 g series transformed tank war forever.
I would love to see the ju-87 g-2 with the 37mm gun pods come to Ah.
You'd be better off asking for the G-1 model as it would only entail adding the 37mm cannon ordnance option instead of having to create a new model for the G-2.
I would also like the horns of Jericho added to the dive brakes.
Not going to happen unless we get an earlier version of the Stuka. From the D-3 onwards, the Stuka wasn't produced with the sirens since the sirens no longer had the psychological impact it once had.
there is a custom sound pack though that replaces one of the sounds with the sirens.
ack-ack
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It was removed after the invasion of the lowlands and France, even on Ju-87B models. It's almost nonexistent in any photo I've ever seen.
It was used only to terrorize unsuspecting civilians and its use was one of the many instances of human rights violations in the war crimes trials after the war.
EDIT: Although I'd like to see the early B but with the R drop tanks enabled. Same plane, just longer range. It would fill 2 roles with 1 plane. Add a D and G or whatever else as well, but I like the squared off canopy. I think it's much more iconic for the Ju87.
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Don't forget the D5 with the wing MG151/20's. I've flown against a few Ju87 Hero's who if they had those I would have been toast in my spit16. With the D5 you might see more use of the Ju87 in LWMA. Players would beleive they had a slightly better chance of surviving the piranha tank. Ooops....LWMA.
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The 20mm on a Stuka were so rare and only intended for ground strafing, but would be horribly abused in the MAs. I don't think they should be added.
With WGR21s, HTC said they COULD be ejected in real life but this was rare, and in-game it would happen every time, giving players an advantage they shouldn't. So we don't have them in-game. I think the same applies to 20mm on Ju87s. I'd rather keep them in their normal role, rather than give them a fake role they never held in real life (i.e. dog fighting spits and winning).
My $0.02
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I'm all for adding more Ju87 variants, no doubt. My queston is simple: have the people who really want the JU-87G-1 with the dual 30mm or 37mm AP guns flown the Hurricane IID with the dual 40mm cannons? The Stuka tank hunter would fly more like the Il-2 (slow and lumbering), with far less ammo. The Hurricane IID would be faster, climb better, and have very similar guns and ammo loadouts.
The Ju87G-1's only real blessing it that it can carry 2000 lbs (iirc) all the while having the guns too.
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What else don't we abuse in the MA's.....real abuse would be adding the P80 or IL10...... :noid
It's not like it flys at Mach-1.2 and has antigrav plates to protect the pilot from 20G turns. What dosen't get abused in a game with no real rules or moderation other than against ah@cking or bad language? Shanes's ankle humpper, baby seal and coward diatribes on ch200? Whens the last time you read one of his ankle humpper rants on ch200 and it made you feel ashamed of having fun?
At some point the available spontainious fun factor versus the pain factor has to always tip in favor of spontaious fun if you want to keep the doors open while running a cartoon mad house. Last I remember we all suit up, put uniforms on our rides, say YES SIR, click our heels and recreate WW2 in FSO and the month long Frames. You make a premeditated choice to fly by RULES there. In the MA we adapt, overcome and do anything we can to have fun by whizzing down each others backs.
I simply have a lot of admiration for the few gents with the cahones to fly the Ju87 knowing most of the time it's a one way trip. How many xxxxx landed xx kills in a Ju87 message do you see in the MA??
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Loon: It may perform worse, but you're almost guaranteed a 1-hit kill with the guns. They were the best anti-tank guns on any plane in the war, if I recall.
Bustr your philosophizing is all well and good, but when you start seeing Ju87s ruling the skies and B17s dogfighting and IL2s flying in BS F3-only manuver methods constantly it harms the game and our perceptions of what we enjoy. Yes, you decide things, as you suggest. We decide them for a reason. If we want ackstars and Ju87s with instant snapshot capabilities we might as well be flying WOW or or LucasArts' X-Wing vs TIE Fighter.
We fly it because there is a WW2 theme going on here. You start seeing Mickey Mouse in full costume standing next to Hitler it might ruin things for you. :P Same goes for the roles certain planes play. Wouldn't want an A-20 model with cannons and modeled to out turn and out fight any other plane in the game, right?
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+1 but with reservations. im kinda in the same camp as krusty, i dont want to see the stuka used in a way it never could be in r/l. but i would love to have the anti-tank capabilities the plane offers. there fore i propose that since the gun package was rare then a perk price is in order. :salute
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Well there's the anti-tank guns, then there's the 20mm. The anti-tank ones are slower, heavier, bigger, and would be very little threat against other planes. It's the 20mm I would hesitate in regard to adding to AH. The 37mm anti-tank guns are totally separate from that.
:airplane:
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Well there's the anti-tank guns, then there's the 20mm. The anti-tank ones are slower, heavier, bigger, and would be very little threat against other planes. It's the 20mm I would hesitate in regard to adding to AH. The 37mm anti-tank guns are totally separate from that.
:airplane:
The updated Brewster is absolutely rediculous, and it would spank the 20mil equipped Ju87 soundly. So what's the big deal about adding them? Also, Rudel got something like 13 air-to-air kills using 20mils, (OK , not sure how many were using the 20's, but some were for sure)
It would still be wayyy slower than an A20, with a little bit less hitting power against fighters. +1 for them to be added 10 years ago :angel:
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i like this idea.but when people like krusty start talking about advantages in real life and in the game i have to laugh and keep laughing. let me point out that the ta-152 .the p47n the wirlblwind and ostwind are all in the game and yet IN REAL LIFE these were made in such small numbers that they had no real impact on the war...however IN THE GAME THEY DO. it is simply adsurd to think that a gv or plane should not be added because IN REAL LIFE it did or did not do something. it s a game....and i dont believe any units in REAL LIFE flew all nations aircraft or gv together on the same side at the same time as we do. they may have had some captured examples and ofcourse put them to use. but i have never read of an attack by lancasters,bf110,and nik's in the same mission,BY ANYBODY IN REAL LIFE, LOL
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i like this idea.but when people like krusty start talking about advantages in real life and in the game i have to laugh and keep laughing. let me point out that the ta-152 .the p47n the wirlblwind and ostwind are all in the game and yet IN REAL LIFE these were made in such small numbers that they had no real impact on the war...however IN THE GAME THEY DO. it is simply adsurd to think that a gv or plane should not be added because IN REAL LIFE it did or did not do something. it s a game....and i dont believe any units in REAL LIFE flew all nations aircraft or gv together on the same side at the same time as we do. they may have had some captured examples and ofcourse put them to use. but i have never read of an attack by lancasters,bf110,and nik's in the same mission,BY ANYBODY IN REAL LIFE, LOL
:aok
It sounds more like Krusty's just afraid of going up against a Stuka. :rofl
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This is written to the stuka:
DEFENSELESS TARGET, COME HO ME DOWN
Im sure the 20 or the 37mm gun option would change it :devil
+1 to the updated Sturzkampfflugzeug
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wow this is funny.i was accualy going to ask for the same thing.but not the sirens because i already knew they wouldnt work
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I'm all for adding more Ju87 variants, no doubt. My queston is simple: have the people who really want the JU-87G-1 with the dual 30mm or 37mm AP guns flown the Hurricane IID with the dual 40mm cannons? The Stuka tank hunter would fly more like the Il-2 (slow and lumbering), with far less ammo. The Hurricane IID would be faster, climb better, and have very similar guns and ammo loadouts.
The Ju87G-1's only real blessing it that it can carry 2000 lbs (iirc) all the while having the guns too.
Loon, I believe the 40mm's in the Hurri IID are HE and not AP. Either that or I completely suck at schwacking heavy armor with them - highly probable :frown:. The 40's do a very nice job with M3's, Jeeps, M8's and the occasional Ostwind/Wirblewind though.
+1 to the JU-87G-1 with dual 30mm/37mm.
Similar to Krusty's reasoning, -1 to the 20mm variant
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Loon, I believe the 40mm's in the Hurri IID are HE and not AP. Either that or I completely suck at schwacking heavy armor with them - highly probable :frown:. The 40's do a very nice job with M3's, Jeeps, M8's and the occasional Ostwind/Wirblewind though.
+1 to the JU-87G-1 with dual 30mm/37mm.
Similar to Krusty's reasoning, -1 to the 20mm variant
The Vickers S cannons on the Hurricane IID fire AP projectiles. Im on my work lapop so I cant post the stats, but Looshy can produce the exact the projectile weights and velocities differences between the British Vickers S 40mm AP and the Soviet NS-37 37mm AP fired from the IL-2. The Vickers S relies on projectile weight and the NS-37 relies on velocity. Ultimately, there is very little difference between the 2 cannons vs tanks. Keep in mind that the NS-37's have about 3X the rate of fire and 3X the ammo available as well. The IL-2 has far more room for error than the Hurricane IID.
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:o Loon, you are correct sir and I am in error.
A link to some particulars re the 40mm Vickers S:
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:vickers-40mm-qsq-gun&catid=44:gunsrockets&Itemid=60 (http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=97:vickers-40mm-qsq-gun&catid=44:gunsrockets&Itemid=60)
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The 20mm on a Stuka were so rare and only intended for ground strafing, but would be horribly abused in the MAs. I don't think they should be added.
Ju 87D-1 = 559 produced
Ju 87D-3 = 1559 produced
Ju 87D-5 = 1178 produced
All D-5s were manufactured with the wing mounted 20mm cannon as that was one of the main primary changes from the D-3 to the D-5. It was not "rare"
Adding the D-5 will mean the Ju 87 can stick around the battlefield after it drops its bombs and would be able to strafe buildings, thin skinned ground vehicles, ammo and fuel bunkers, etc. It's not going to make the Stuka into some uber dogfighting machine, it's still going to be the same easy kill that it is.
ack-ack
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The updated Brewster is absolutely rediculous, and it would spank the 20mil equipped Ju87 soundly. So what's the big deal about adding them? Also, Rudel got something like 13 air-to-air kills using 20mils, (OK , not sure how many were using the 20's, but some were for sure)
It would still be wayyy slower than an A20, with a little bit less hitting power against fighters. +1 for them to be added 10 years ago :angel:
The majority of Rudel's kills that he is credited were in the FW 190, his kills in the Stuka were actually kills by the rear gunner and as pilot, Rudel received credit.
ack-ack
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Ju 87D-1 = 559 produced
Ju 87D-3 = 1559 produced
Ju 87D-5 = 1178 produced
All D-5s were manufactured with the wing mounted 20mm cannon as that was one of the main primary changes from the D-3 to the D-5. It was not "rare"
Sush. You doubt the word of Krusty? Krusty knows everything.
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This is written to the stuka:
DEFENSELESS TARGET, COME HO ME DOWN
Im sure the 20 or the 37mm gun option would change it :devil
+1 to the updated Sturzkampfflugzeug
+1
Wouldn't a 37mm be harder to aim at moving targets?
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From the few videos out there on the web showing the 37mm guns in use. it appears that the guns both fired at the same time, (feel free to prove me wrong) something that niether the IL2 or Hurri do. I am inclined to think that while giving you fewer trigger pulls between full ammo and empty it would be more accurate and depending on the convergence you could more easily place 2 rounds onto the exact same spot on a tank and cause fatal damage in game.
One way or the other, I am all for more options for my favorite ride. +1
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Adding the D-5 will mean the Ju 87 can stick around the battlefield after it drops its bombs and would be able to strafe buildings, thin skinned ground vehicles, ammo and fuel bunkers, etc. It's not going to make the Stuka into some uber dogfighting machine, it's still going to be the same easy kill that it is.
Puh-LLLEEEZE....
You know for a fact what it'll be used for. Same as the quaz-hizzo SpitV that was only used for ground attack, right? You pretend it would be used to strafe town buildings if included in game?
you are not that naive.
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As a P.S.: I don't know much about total production numbers, just how they were used and how they were replaced quickly.
Quick snip from Wiki (hey it's convenient and says essentially what I've read elsewhere)
"On 3 August 1943, Milch contradicted this and declared that this increase in fighter production would not affect production of the Ju 87, Ju 188, Ju 288 and Ju 290. This was an important consideration as the life expectancy of a Ju 87 had been reduced (since 1941) from 9.5 months to 5.5 months to just 100 operational flying hours. On 26 October, General der Schlachtflieger Ernst Kupfer reported the Ju 87 could no longer survive in operations and that the Focke-Wulf Fw 190F should take its place. Milch finally agreed and ordered the minimal continuance of Ju 87 D-3 and D-5 production for a smooth transition period. In May 1944, production wound down. 78 Ju 87s were built in May and 69 rebuilt from damaged machines. In the next six months, 438 Ju 87 Ds and Gs were added to the Ju 87 force as new or repaired aircraft."
Remember the D-5 was only started in early 1943, so already it was being phased out within a few months.
From vectorsite, on the D-5
"Confronted with a hostile air environment, by mid-1943 the Stuka was limited mostly to night operations. The Ju-87D-5 had no particular optimizations for flying at night, with pilots coming in low and slow and dropping antipersonnel bombs on clusters of incautious Allied troops. The Luftwaffe learned this trick from the Soviets, who had become fond of using little Po-2 biplanes on such harassment raids earlier in the war.
Although a "Ju-87D-6" subvariant was planned, with the focus apparently being the simplification of manufacturing, it was not built. The next variant, the "Ju-87D-7", was a Ju-87D-5 with night flight instrumentation and long flame-damper exhausts to hide the exhaust glow from the pilot or potential enemies."
Sources listed as:
THE WARPLANES OF THE THIRD REICH by William Green, Galahad Books, 1970.
STUKA by Alex Vanags-Baginskis, from THE GREAT BOOK OF WORLD WAR II AIRPLANES, Bonanza, 1984.
WARPLANES OF THE LUFTWAFFE, edited by David Donald, Aerospace Publishing Limited, 1994.
It was a short-lived, not-much-used version that was a night nuisance raider. Those 20mm cannons were almost never used (especially at night) and it was more of an impotent attempt to remain defiant in the losing war.
Sure, it was a plane used by the Luftwaffe and it was used in combat, and sure it meets the inclusion bullet points for AH, but overall it's totally unrepresentative of the Ju87s and how they behaved in the real war. Put them in AH and all you'll get are "drop 1 4k cookie and then dogfight" types. They have limited to no scenario/FSO use and would only be an a-historical furballer in the MAs.
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Sure, it was a plane used by the Luftwaffe and it was used in combat, and sure it meets the inclusion bullet points for AH, but overall it's totally unrepresentative of the Ju87s and how they behaved in the real war. Put them in AH and all you'll get are "drop 1 4k cookie and then dogfight" types. They have limited to no scenario/FSO use and would only be an a-historical furballer in the MAs.
The MA's do not behave like WW2, they behave like Quake with wings. "Boys Just Wanna Have Fun" is the operative motto in the MA's. The D5 is a perfict tool for use in the MA by the manner in which we use these toys. Like we won't HO and run in a Beaufit or a Whirlly or a Firefly or a SeaHurri or a Ta152 or a IAR80 or B26, or B25, or A20, or anything new and old available to us if it has cannons?
In WW2 airplanes behaved in the manner they did because people died, were effected by physics for real, and they were following tactical orders and doctrine that they could be shot or imprisoned for disobeying. We are beer guzzling geeks in our undies playing a game. A Very Good Game.....but a bunch of geeks.
The D5 is one of the few high potential fun machines players will use in groups while having a good chance of generating a small cadre of Expertin solo aces. Ju87 missions very often are hillarious for attackers and defenders. You gotta take your hat off to a an aircraft that a player can make a rabid herd of LaLa and spits fly around in circles spraying all of their ammo trying to kill while feild ack is just a light show for it. I watch this all the time while trying to nail it from soft guns.
I vote Krusty be made Aces High Culture Czar with the full powers and authority to cancel anyones subscription who dosen't play the game as closely as possible to how WW2 was actualy fought. +100
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The MA's do not behave like WW2, they behave like Quake with wings. "Boys Just Wanna Have Fun" is the operative motto in the MA's. The D5 is a perfict tool for use in the MA by the manner in which we use these toys. Like we won't HO and run in a Beaufit or a Whirlly or a Firefly or a SeaHurri or a Ta152 or a IAR80 or B26, or B25, or A20, or anything new and old available to us if it has cannons?
In WW2 airplanes behaved in the manner they did because people died, were effected by physics for real, and they were following tactical orders and doctrine that they could be shot or imprisoned for disobeying. We are beer guzzling geeks in our undies playing a game. A Very Good Game.....but a bunch of geeks.
The D5 is one of the few high potential fun machines players will use in groups while having a good chance of generating a small cadre of Expertin solo aces. Ju87 missions very often are hillarious for attackers and defenders. You gotta take your hat off to a an aircraft that a player can make a rabid herd of LaLa and spits fly around in circles spraying all of their ammo trying to kill while feild ack is just a light show for it. I watch this all the time while trying to nail it from soft guns.
I vote Krusty be made Aces High Culture Czar with the full powers and authority to cancel anyones subscription who dosen't play the game as closely as possible to how WW2 was actualy fought. +100
im in
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I find all this talk about 'abuse' in the MA hysterical.
Everything in the MA that can be abused is abused. If something can't be abused people will still try. If the MA was meant to be a place where things weren't abused, we would see a lot of panthers breaking down and a lot of tigers running out of gas.
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i think i remember seeing somthing about the fm2 or f4f..dont remember witch one,not being able to turn with a Zero.my romp,those things turn almost as good as a brew..witch is once again bull..i'd say those are the most abused planes simply cause they are overmodeled/uncorrectly modeled planes
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i think i remember seeing somthing about the fm2 or f4f..dont remember witch one,not being able to turn with a Zero.my romp,those things turn almost as good as a brew..witch is once again bull..i'd say those are the most abused planes simply cause they are overmodeled/uncorrectly modeled planes
First of all, neither Wildcat plane we have will out turn a Zeke if both pilots are of equal skill. In AH, the Zeke, like in real life, will out turn either of the Wildcats. The best the Wildcat can hope for is to stay with a Zeke in a turn for maybe 2-3 turns tops and it better make the kill before that, otherwise the Wildcat driver is going to find out why the Zeke was the scourge of the Pacific.
Nor do either of our Wildcats easily turn with our Finnish Brewster.
Your basis for claiming the flight models are incorrect stem from your lack of experience and skill and nothing else. You do not have anything to back up your claims that the flight models are incorrect other than your own experience and we already know what that amounts to. This is just like your claim that the planes you choose have been altered to fly like "crap" because of how easily you die in them.
ack-ack
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First of all, neither Wildcat plane we have will out turn a Zeke if both pilots are of equal skill. In AH, the Zeke, like in real life, will out turn either of the Wildcats. The best the Wildcat can hope for is to stay with a Zeke in a turn for maybe 2-3 turns tops and it better make the kill before that, otherwise the Wildcat driver is going to find out why the Zeke was the scourge of the Pacific.
Nor do either of our Wildcats easily turn with our Finnish Brewster.
Your basis for claiming the flight models are incorrect stem from your lack of experience and skill and nothing else. You do not have anything to back up your claims that the flight models are incorrect other than your own experience and we already know what that amounts to. This is just like your claim that the planes you choose have been altered to fly like "crap" because of how easily you die in them.
ack-ack
sorry.they turn almost as good,and im pretty sure they dont turn in here like they did in WW2.but i could just ask my squad mate that,he flew them in WW2.
i say my planes have been altered as a figure of speech stating that i havnt been flying how i normally fly and i dont know why cause it doesnt seem like im doing anything different.
I somtimes question how much social activity you get outside of the game and forums,it seems like you always want to have an arguement or call someone out on somthing.were you just the kid everyone beat on in highschool?i think you mirror the image of someone who years later has his opportunity to finally feel like hes bigger.or do you just know everything about WW2 and plane models.
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So who votes on adopting new variants? does high tech vote or something?? :salute
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So who votes on adopting new variants? does high tech vote or something?? :salute
HTC has a dictator head of State. He allows a vote when he so desires and even then he determines which vote counts. :D No soup for jou!
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sorry.they turn almost as good,and im pretty sure they dont turn in here like they did in WW2.but i could just ask my squad mate that,he flew them in WW2.
i say my planes have been altered as a figure of speech stating that i havnt been flying how i normally fly and i dont know why cause it doesnt seem like im doing anything different.
I somtimes question how much social activity you get outside of the game and forums,it seems like you always want to have an arguement or call someone out on somthing.were you just the kid everyone beat on in highschool?i think you mirror the image of someone who years later has his opportunity to finally feel like hes bigger.or do you just know everything about WW2 and plane models.
sorry but your high level b.s. and lack of indepth knowledge is quite evident in most of your postings. i suspect that b.s. about planes being over modelled is based on what someone told you they think, not from your own knowledge or research. i'd put money on ack ack having a much greater knowledge of aircraft than you.
the environment within ah allows toon pile-its to yank and bank to a much greater extent than they would be able to in a real world environment, no changes in atmosphere, no environmental effects, no real physical forces, no undocumented airframe quirks. what turning performance you see in ah is a reflection of that. people can push the envelope a lot more without suffering physical consequences.
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JU-87 with the 37mm
+1