Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Blagard on July 11, 2011, 01:40:53 PM
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On the news this evening a P51 was lost after a mid-air collision with a Skyraider. The Skyraider lost it's wingtip but landed safely. The P51 pilot bailed OK.
A sad end to historic aircraft, but excellent that there were no casualties.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14110542 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14110542)
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oh noooo, another buity gone :frown:
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Its pretty obvious that the Mustang pilot was lucky to get out. But that Skyraider pilot was darn lucky not to loose his aircraft too. His regaining control of it after it rolled following the collision was good flying... about 20 secs too late.
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Testament to survivability to the Skyraider.
Shame about the P-51.
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an AH pilot would've landed that...
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an AH pilot would've landed that...
not alive..
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no matter how well the skyraider flew after he screwed up that royaly and lost sight of the plane he was following in close formation then proceeded to ram... it will not matter when the authorities and the lawyers get done with him.
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no matter how well the skyraider flew after he screwed up that royaly and lost sight of the plane he was following in close formation then proceeded to ram... it will not matter when the authorities and the lawyers get done with him.
I have watched it a few times and think that other angles are needed and the documented sequence they were flying. But it seems the Skyraider turned with the other P51 and must have taken his eye off the one he collided with. What I'm sure they will be looking at amongst other things is, what was the pre-determined movement they should have been executing. It is by no means clear from the film who was at fault. Although I do agree the Skyraider's movement does not look good!
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I work fire suppression at our local air fest in Rockford. I have seen, The Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, Lima Lima, Team Aero Shell, and its always the Heritage flight stuff, like the 51 with F18, that scares the crap out me. There is a good reason why the teams train so hard. Its a shame to see another piece of American Heritage go down like that.
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I think us guessing without having the input of those involved is pointless.
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I think us guessing without having the input of those involved is pointless.
Amen.
I'd say it's best to let the parties that investigate the incident do their job in peace and then we can read what really happened from the report they publish.
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an AH pilot would've landed that...
I never knew AH acuratley modeled jammed control surfaces after a collision.... :headscratch:
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Youtube already has another angle on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_A4xdGFXoE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_A4xdGFXoE)
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Overmodeled damage model. :bolt:
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another link
http://www.flyingfilm.co.uk/
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TujQuzoR2k8&NR=1
:(
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TujQuzoR2k8&NR=1
:(
Very sad indeed.
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I can't believe we have all lost Big Beautiful Doll... :cry
As soon as I saw the hit, my heart was in my mouth, such a relief to see that parachute.
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Youtube already has another angle on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_A4xdGFXoE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_A4xdGFXoE)
This video sent chills down my spine.
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Warbirds have no luck flying in the UK! Off the top of my head this 51, a 38, and a p63 -(biggins hill) have been lost in the last few years. :frown:
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The crowd was going crazy where I was at, late that day I saw done remains being takin out
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http://www.flyingfilm.co.uk/archives/58
be interesting to hear what the p51 pilot experienced tryng to regain control.
the video link in this post shows up close a very hard hit with a wing right in the underside of the fuselage and a bit of the right hstab possibly but the p51 was intact.
did the pilot quickly decide to bail after the impact from a plane that survived the hit based on loss of control or just from the trauma of being thrown sideways in a midair collision? were the controls jammed or functioning?
it got hit in the strongest point of the rear airframe... the tailwheel.
its the only reason the control surfaces are still on. lower fuselage tailwheel area took the brunt.
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Yeah, the P51 looked very much intact and the pilot seems to have bailed by pure instincts and training after the major jolt he recieved. Such a lame way to loose a warbird like this :cry. The pilots are fine at least.
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I hate to armchair it but I wondered the same. I can't imagine what went through their head while keeping thier cool.
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=316360.0
:P
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Please, let the investigation run its course. There will be a report for all to read after that.
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http://www.flyingfilm.co.uk/archives/58
be interesting to hear what the p51 pilot experienced tryng to regain control.
the video link in this post shows up close a very hard hit with a wing right in the underside of the fuselage and a bit of the right hstab possibly but the p51 was intact.
did the pilot quickly decide to bail after the impact from a plane that survived the hit based on loss of control or just from the trauma of being thrown sideways in a midair collision? were the controls jammed or functioning?
it got hit in the strongest point of the rear airframe... the tailwheel.
its the only reason the control surfaces are still on. lower fuselage tailwheel area took the brunt.
Probably severed control cables
(http://sierra-host.net/bb/duxcrash01.jpg)
(http://sierra-host.net/bb/duxcrash02.jpg)
original images from here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2013219/Pilot-Rob-Davies-escapes-WW2-fighter-mid-air-collision-airshow.html
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I'm curious why the p51 greatly decreased his rate of turn to near nothing while every single one of the other planes who peeled up and to the left in the multiple passes shown kept up the turn rate for the entire 180.
It's almost as if he blacked out because he sure stopped turning.
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I'm curious why the p51 greatly decreased his rate of turn to near nothing while every single one of the other planes who peel up and left in the multiple passes shown kept up the turn rate for the entire 180.
It's almost as if he blacked out because he sure stopped turning.
Maybe loss of control surfaces, severved hydraulic lines maybe I don't know
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He stopped turning before the collision so there was either something wrong with the plane or the pilot before the collision.
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Warbirds have no luck flying in the UK! Off the top of my head this 51, a 38, and a p63 -(biggins hill) have been lost in the last few years. :frown:
Nothing to do with the UK. I can off the top of my head name a lot more lost in the US in the same time frame. That being said, it's still a small number. And again I think the armchair quarterbacking is silly as it's nothing but speculation. Understand the guy flying that 51 had owned that 51 and flown it for many many years. He'd only recently sold it to a German owner and was flying it for them on it's return to the UK for Legends. This was not some low time novice
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He stopped turning before the collision so there was either something wrong with the plane or the pilot before the collision.
He probally was hoping the skyraider would change his path so they didn't both make the same swerve into each other
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The mustang pilot had no vis on the skyraider.
His was the only break turn of the afternoon that did not maintain if you compare it to all the other planes during thier passes.
It's clear there was an issue with either the mustang or the pilot that caused him to not maintain his turn.
That said, it was the skyraider's responsibility to main separation but I'm not sure he could have done much since they closed so quickly.
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That P-51 pilot barely got out in time.
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I have watched it a few times and think that other angles are needed and the documented sequence they were flying. But it seems the Skyraider turned with the other P51 and must have taken his eye off the one he collided with. What I'm sure they will be looking at amongst other things is, what was the pre-determined movement they should have been executing. It is by no means clear from the film who was at fault. Although I do agree the Skyraider's movement does not look good!
actually, it is. the mustang was above and in front of him. his eyes should've been that way, well before he made that move.
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I watched a really good video of the collision before the youtube uploader pulled it down. He probably got a good offer for it.
Airbull and Amsoil both saw it first hand, I was looking the other way packing up my chair when Ams called it out. When I turned around I could see half the Skyraider's wing falling down like a leaf.
The video I saw showed the skyraider break turn at speed whilst the pony it appeared to have stopped banking and the right wing of the Skyraider chopped the P51's tail feather. The P51 then flew on level for a few seconds (as they do in AH) then the pilot's canopy goes flying off and the chute just about deploys with 100 feet to spare. At least the pilots both made it out safe.
We were expecting some sort of plume of smoke but there was nothing the trees may have broken the crash but it was a very sad ending to an excellent day.
I think we should do an AH memorial to 'Big beautiful' and beat up and airfield. :(
not to mention the DR1 that ground looped on landing :uhoh
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I watched a really good video of the collision before the youtube uploader pulled it down. He probably got a good offer for it.
Airbull and Amsoil both saw it first hand, I was looking the other way packing up my chair when Ams called it out. When I turned around I could see half the Skyraider's wing falling down like a leaf.
The video I saw showed the skyraider break turn at speed whilst the pony it appeared to have stopped banking and the right wing of the Skyraider chopped the P51's tail feather. The P51 then flew on level for a few seconds (as they do in AH) then the pilot's canopy goes flying off and the chute just about deploys with 100 feet to spare. At least the pilots both made it out safe.
We were expecting some sort of plume of smoke but there was nothing the trees may have broken the crash but it was a very sad ending to an excellent day.
I think we should do an AH memorial to 'Big beautiful' and beat up and airfield. :(
not to mention the DR1 that ground looped on landing :uhoh
that is really the most important part of this whole thing......both pilots are alive and well. even though it's rare, technically speaking, the pony can be replaced. the pilot cannot. :aok
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Please, let the investigation run its course. There will be a report for all to read after that.
It can't be discussed?
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Sad to see the loss of that beautiful bird... :frown:
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It can't be discussed?
It can be discussed but speculation what caused the accident and was the P-51 flyable after the collision or not is quite frankly just retarted.
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Wondering what possibly happened is retarded? K
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actually, it is. the mustang was above and in front of him. his eyes should've been that way, well before he made that move.
I'm still not certain it is clear. The Skyraider was still in formation with the other P51 when the Big Beautiful Doll peeled off. So the Skyraider would be watching that P51 just before breaking off. Based on the other formation breaks, I think the Doll should have been well left of where it actually was and so may not have been where the Skyraider pilot expected it to be. He was simply not looking in the right place in the sky to pick it up. I am quite certain he did not intentionally ram the Doll, so for what ever reason, he must not have seen it. The whole thing happens in seconds, and it is why those pilots have to fly a precise movement. You can't be focused on two aircraft at once, especially as the Doll pulls up and turns, its initial position for the Skyraider pilot to pick it up would be over his left shoulder. As noted by others, the AAID will no doubt find out why the accident happened and if anyone was at fault.