Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: bangsbox on July 20, 2011, 07:18:09 PM
-
panther vs king tiger
-
panther if he can get behind the tiger
-
Panther is smaller, faster, more agile and likely has a faster turret traverse. Tiger II has a better gun and better armor.
I'd bet on the Tiger II in most AH2 style engagements.
-
I'd say they will rarely meet each other.
-
For the GV fighting i do ill pull a KT anyday when no problems are modeled in. 26mph on road (road speeds and offroad speeds aren't modeled in AH :D ), 88 L71 super gun, and armor to protect 16 shermans. The Pnzr VI and Pnzr VII are both STAND OFF weapons. Put it at the edge of a field and watch the magic happen :aok hell stick two Pnzr VI's on its flanks to cover it :ahand
Panther is smaller, faster, more agile and likely has a faster turret traverse. Tiger II has a better gun and better armor.
I'd bet on the Tiger II in most AH2 style engagements.
not all AH2 tank fights are open plains. alot are forests with small "alleyways" in between the trees. Maneuverability here dominates any GV fight
-
I'd say they will rarely meet each other.
Probably true due their both tank's fondness for 'friendly' concrete.
-
Just a quick data bit: Even though the Panther V is not that rare in AH, only 1.8% of all kills by Panthers are other Panthers. That is far less than the general prevalence of the Panther would let expect us and shows that they rarely meet each other - which is a result of the fact that highly perked tanks are rarely used offensively, as spawning into enemy territory is a death sentence in the vast majority of case.
-
It would be nice if the spawn points were marked clearly on the clipboard map and allow GVs to be "landed successfully" there.
-
will panther gun defeat frontal armor of KT?
-
It would be nice if the spawn points were marked clearly on the clipboard map and allow GVs to be "landed successfully" there.
As you can now land a gv anywhere with a little effortand spawn points have nothing to do with a successful landing, why bother?
You are really much better off with the way things are now. Imagine camping the landing point.
wrongway
-
As you can now land a gv anywhere with a little effortand spawn points have nothing to do with a successful landing, why bother?
Because you can land ONLY if no one is around. In any perk plane you can hope to get home and land your scalps. When you spawn your tank to fight at an enemy base, you hardly have a chance to fight your way back home, particularly not if you are in a perk tank. Even at remote Vbases after some time bomb loaded planes will show up, and it's not very likely you can get enough separation from chasing vehicles, which are more than just eager prevent you from getting your perks back.
And the defender can not only land his damaged Tiger on concrete any time, he may also ditch his tank when he ventured away from the base and find himself in an unfavorable situation.
All that makes attacking not very attractive, and even less attacking in a perk tank.
-
will panther gun defeat frontal armor of KT?
no. Never
-
Tiger2 vs Panther I'd say tiger wins 9 times out of 10 in a fair fight.
The king tiger has sloping front armor its basically a t34-85 on steroids...but any tank with this armor can easily be killed.
Tanks biggest flaw is the "chin shot" killzone..the part where the front of the tank and the bottom meet.
The king tiger will probably have this weakness, the panther sure does
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/7082/shermankillfrontalarmor.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/shermankillfrontalarmor.png/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
-
The king tiger will probably have this weakness, the panther sure does
I think this weakness comes from the program assigning simply 0 degrees of slope to that location, which reduces the tank's armor to it's nominal thickness (for the T-34 a mere 45mm for example).
In case of the Tiger II, that would still be 100mm at least, just like the regular Tiger I frontal armor.
-
I think this weakness comes from the program assigning simply 0 degrees of slope to that location, which reduces the tank's armor to it's nominal thickness (for the T-34 a mere 45mm for example).
In case of the Tiger II, that would still be 100mm at least, just like the regular Tiger I frontal armor.
Trust me I would find it's weak spot pretty durn quick ;)
-
It would be extremely nice to be able to test different scenerios in the game but they will rarely happen.
Why?
The winners from now on are: bombs.
-
no. Never
wrong may take several hits but panther can do it
-
wrong may take several hits but panther can do it
Why would it take several hits? Flank it and put one into the side armor
-
Real question is, wouldn't the KT get bombed long before the panther can get to it? :lol
-
Real question is, wouldn't the KT get bombed long before the panther can get to it? :lol
I've been offering myself up as a target the last few days and the only GV I've lost to aircraft were two or three M8s. I did see another aircraft when I was in a T-34, but in general, thus far, GVs seem to be the main killers of GVs.
-
Probably true due their both tank's fondness for 'friendly' concrete.
Complete hogwash...
-
Complete hogwash...
Sadly, not. There are people who sit on friendly concrete and tower out the moment they hear bombs or take a hit. Sure, sometimes they'll die to the first hit, but it certainly protects their perks.
Of course there are also people who use them offensively and aggressively, but the ratio is not as favorable as it is for the free or ultra cheap perk tanks.
-
Complete hogwash...
Absolutely not. High perk tanks are very reluctantly used offensively, be it tactically (base defense) or "strategic", in attacking other bases. Tigers & Panthers are far less used to attack other bases than in base defense, as the perks are basically lost the moment you spawn in.
Keep in mind, the average player, spending about hours each month in tanks with meager success, does not have the abundance of perks available the very few high-profile players have. (Even the one perk price on the M4(76) cut the usage back to almost 60%)
40 perks is a lot to them, and they understandably try to minimize the risk of losing them. That's why it's more likely for a Tiger to stay on concrete in the same way as a B-29 is much more likely to fly at very high altitudes.
-
will panther gun defeat frontal armor of KT?
Not the turret or the glacis plate.
It could defeat the lower nose armor at 1000yds or so (assuming he isn't shooting 'down' at it, and therby increasing the slope for that particular section of armor.)
Kingtiger had 180mm turret armor, ~180mm armor on the glacis plate, and ~135mm on the lower nose.
Only 5 tanks will be physicly capable of killint it from the front, assuming a level hit "Tiger, Panther, firefly (lower nose), T-34/85 and the Tiger II.
IMO, KT is gonna mop the floor with the panther. Yeah the panther is faster, but its not fast enough to swing around the sides and make a kill before the KT backs up behind cover and turns to face the panther. M3 probably has a better chance against the KT than the panther, assuming a flanking manuver.
-
King tiger.
The speed advantage is over rated. Tank victories always come down to acuracy, firepower, and lastly Armor.
The bigger gun on the Tiger gives it a better chance to shoot through a panther at distance. It's thinker armor makes it more likely to survive a panther hit at distance. at 3k a K Tiger could survive 3[?] hits from a Panther. How many hits could a Panther Survive at 3K from a KT? Fire rate is similar? I think so. That one or two more hits that KT can take over his opponent makes him a winner.
-
Vinkman, the Panther is physicly incapable of penetrating any part of the KT's frontal armor beyond 1800yds or so. While the KT's gun would rip the turret off of the panther from 2500yds out, if not further.
-
Vinkman, the Panther is physicly incapable of penetrating any part of the KT's frontal armor beyond 1800yds or so. While the KT's gun would rip the turret off of the panther from 2500yds out, if not further.
You put the specifics on my point. :salute
Speed and manueverability only matters against really really bad shots, or if your within 50 yrds. Anyone here think they could get within 50 yrds of DR7 if he was parked somewhere in KT? :lol
-
A Tiger has stripes, that makes him badass, he will definitely beat a sissy non-stripey Panther.
-
A Tiger has stripes, that makes him badass, he will definitely beat a sissy non-stripey Panther.
I read this and picture it being said by Hobbes the Tiger
-
^ :lol
-
For the GV fighting i do ill pull a KT anyday when no problems are modeled in. 26mph on road (road speeds and offroad speeds aren't modeled in AH :D ), 88 L71 super gun, and armor to protect 16 shermans. The Pnzr VI and Pnzr VII are both STAND OFF weapons. Put it at the edge of a field and watch the magic happen :aok hell stick two Pnzr VI's on its flanks to cover it :ahand
not all AH2 tank fights are open plains. alot are forests with small "alleyways" in between the trees. Maneuverability here dominates any GV fight
I still don't get how the panzer VII has anything to do with this thread?
-
King tiger.
The speed advantage is over rated. Tank victories always come down to acuracy, firepower, and lastly Armor.
The bigger gun on the Tiger gives it a better chance to shoot through a panther at distance. It's thinker armor makes it more likely to survive a panther hit at distance. at 3k a K Tiger could survive 3[?] hits from a Panther. How many hits could a Panther Survive at 3K from a KT? Fire rate is similar? I think so. That one or two more hits that KT can take over his opponent makes him a winner.
I'm not so sure to rule out Speed, there's a reason I ONLY take the Panther/T34/85 is for the burst of speed, granted Its not going to get you out of trouble as an M3 or m8 will, however taking the time to aim and fire on a moving target thats feet away from a hill can make a difference.
One more thing to note, Its very rare to score successful hits on a moving tank at 3k. That being said depends on the experience up to this point, some days I can fire 20 rounds at 3k and not hit, other days I can fire 20 and guess hit 15 outa those 20. It depends on the situation, remember Aces high rarely has any clear 3k shots.
-
I'm not so sure to rule out Speed, there's a reason I ONLY take the Panther/T34/85 is for the burst of speed, granted Its not going to get you out of trouble as an M3 or m8 will, however taking the time to aim and fire on a moving target thats feet away from a hill can make a difference.
One more thing to note, Its very rare to score successful hits on a moving tank at 3k. That being said depends on the experience up to this point, some days I can fire 20 rounds at 3k and not hit, other days I can fire 20 and guess hit 15 outa those 20. It depends on the situation, remember Aces high rarely has any clear 3k shots.
:salute I agree that it's very hard to hit a moving target at long distances, so the moving scenario is the same for both. As for the popping out and firing a shot and slipping back out of sight, I don't think the Panther's slight speed advantage over a KT will make a big difference in the peek-a-Boo scenario. Do You? [I yelild to your much greater GV experience and success :salute] Wouldn't the travel time of the round , possibly, make a bigger difference. What's the Muzzle velocity difference between 88mm AP and 75mm AP? Or said another way, what's the travel time difference of the rounds to cover 3000 yrds?
-
King Tiger is truly the King of Aces High for now...no other tank even comes close.
Kinda slow reload though, and it explodes if it picks up supps lol :headscratch:
-
King Tiger is truly the King of Aces High for now...no other tank even comes close.
And at 100 perks, it will truly be the "King of the Concrete" :D
-
You put the specifics on my point. :salute
Speed and manueverability only matters against really really bad shots, or if your within 50 yrds. Anyone here think they could get within 50 yrds of DR7 if he was parked somewhere in KT? :lol
I have on several occassions.
-
Is it just me or does the turrent on the King Tiger turn a little to fast? Just curious.
-
Is it just me or does the turrent on the King Tiger turn a little to fast? Just curious.
How fast should it turn?
It certainly turns faster than a Tiger I, but that doesn't mean it is wrong.
-
P-47D-25 dropping a 1,000 lbs. Because there is no hidding from me if you are in a GV.
-
Did some offline testing of the Tiger II.
I used another Tiger II, a T34 85 and a firefly to see how hard they are to kill.
Head on the Tiger II only seems to be vulnerable to another 88mm gun. Side armor is about the same. Even from the rear I was getting as many ricochets as good shots from the firefly and the t34.
-
One more thing to note, Its very rare to score successful hits on a moving tank at 3k.
It's not that rare at all. I think it was two weeks ago whe I last GV'd that I hit a tank going downhill at about 60 mph from 3K in a Tiger on my second shot. I've spent most of my AH GV time firing at moving targets from stand off positions. In the past 5-6K moving kills were quite common. The new sights have closed the range a bit.
-
You can kill the Tiger II through the turret with the T-34/85's AP and HVAP ammo. You can also do it with the Panzer IV H's AP ammo, though it is harder. I would assume the Firefly and Panther V G can do it as well. I was not able to do it with the M4A3(76) or T-34/76 and I didn't even try the M4A3(75).
These tests were from about 200 yards. Getting there alive against a player's Tiger II would be impractical to put it lightly, and further most shots from the T-34/85 and Panzer IV H still bounced whereas the Tiger II's shot would likely go in the front and out the back of either of those tanks at that range.
-
I still don't get how the panzer VII has anything to do with this thread?
Tiger II = Pnzr VII
-
Tiger II = Pnzr VII
No, Tiger II = Panzerkampfwagen VI ausf B.
-
No, Tiger II = Panzerkampfwagen VI ausf B.
really? hmm....
-
I have on several occassions.
:salute Post the film or it didn't happen. :lol
-
:salute I agree that it's very hard to hit a moving target at long distances, so the moving scenario is the same for both. As for the popping out and firing a shot and slipping back out of sight, I don't think the Panther's slight speed advantage over a KT will make a big difference in the peek-a-Boo scenario. Do You? [I yelild to your much greater GV experience and success :salute] Wouldn't the travel time of the round , possibly, make a bigger difference. What's the Muzzle velocity difference between 88mm AP and 75mm AP? Or said another way, what's the travel time difference of the rounds to cover 3000 yrds?
Well I had a few 3k and 4k duels last night at V40 (as a Knight its next to A41) in that furball area - and I can say it seemed extremely flat for a massive round. To me it clearly shoots faster and straighter then anything we have next to the Panther, however I will be sticking with the Panther for the time being because of perk value and speed is another thing, T2 only doing 24 mph - I have a huge habit of "Scoot and Shoot" and if I'm crawling to the next hill I really don't feel comfortable.
I did land 4 kills in a T34/85 last night against 4 King Tigers, all out flanked with side shots - however none were used in the correct strategy to lose that many monsters so quick. What I did at V41 I can clearly say - if this thing is sitting on a hill with 2k+ to a target it will do some serious wrecking.
Honestly I don't even want my panther around a Tiger 2 if that Tiger has a Line of Sight of the field.
-
I find the Avro Lancaster the most effective at killing them. It is quite difficult, but the 2k and 4k bombs in a fairly steep dive work best.
-
You put the specifics on my point. :salute
Speed and manueverability only matters against really really bad shots, or if your within 50 yrds. Anyone here think they could get within 50 yrds of DR7 if he was parked somewhere in KT? :lol
dr 7 landed i think 54 kills the 1st knight the t2 was out-and your right it's really hard to sneak up on dr 7
-
:salute I agree that it's very hard to hit a moving target at long distances, so the moving scenario is the same for both. As for the popping out and firing a shot and slipping back out of sight, I don't think the Panther's slight speed advantage over a KT will make a big difference in the peek-a-Boo scenario. Do You? [I yelild to your much greater GV experience and success :salute] Wouldn't the travel time of the round , possibly, make a bigger difference. What's the Muzzle velocity difference between 88mm AP and 75mm AP? Or said another way, what's the travel time difference of the rounds to cover 3000 yrds?
I did some "testing" in the DA with a squaddie of mine, and another tanker we picked up in the DA. Me in a panther vs them in King Tigers, I killed both of them twice, landing a total of 8 kills (for some reason, the other guy upped an M8, probably hoping to lure me into a trap).
Panzer IV vs KingTigers, I killed 3 KT's, a Panther, an M8, and two M3(75)'s.
Thus proving speed does not equal survival. It comes down to several things: Gunnery, armor/gun, and simple, good old fashion sneakiness.
-
Killed a king tiger with my panther today at close range firing 1 shot directly into it's rear.
-
Killed a king tiger with my panther today at close range firing 1 shot directly into it's rear.
That panther's gun can really get on the King's nerves from the side from 800 out maybe more also :ahand
-
lol, yeah. I killed what was either the second or third King Tiger to die in the game, but unfortunatly I only got an assist. I put a couple shells in his side at something around 1700yds.
-
dr 7 landed i think 54 kills the 1st knight the t2 was out-and your right it's really hard to sneak up on dr 7
As most decent tankers are tough to beat, I can name roughly less then 10 that are Just as good at least in my book those I would fear more then bombs.
It really comes down to experience, players like Belial, coondawg, Hooter, Gizmo, SWrifle, Dr7, Rondar, Poolfool are ones you dont want to tank with.