Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: flight17 on August 01, 2011, 08:28:36 PM
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Its been years since i have flown commercially (actually march 2001) and im writing a paper about the ways 9-11 changed the flying experience for better or worse with a focus on safty.
What info i need is what could be taken on aircraft prior to 9-11 that can no longer be taken on. Now, i know the TSA list, but the majority of that came after 9-11 from other attacks. Im more or less wanting things that came specifically from 9-11. Most likely they were everyday items that could be used as weapons.
Other than box cutters, what could no longer be carried on? I know the box cutters werent allowed then, but it was up to the airlines to enforce that rule.
Any help would be great! Thanks
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Its been years since i have flown commercially (actually march 2001) and im writing a paper about the ways 9-11 changed the flying experience for better or worse with a focus on safty.
What info i need is what could be taken on aircraft prior to 9-11 that can no longer be taken on. Now, i know the TSA list, but the majority of that came after 9-11 from other attacks. Im more or less wanting things that came specifically from 9-11. Most likely they were everyday items that could be used as weapons.
Other than box cutters, what could no longer be carried on? I know the box cutters werent allowed then, but it was up to the airlines to enforce that rule.
Any help would be great! Thanks
This is easy...look at the current list and anything that sticks out as, WTF?!, was post 9/11.
EDIT:
Ok fine, many liquids were banned because of the threat of explosives; IE: chemicals. So that is why only very small containers of any fluid are only allowed. However, with a doctors note you may bring these items on the plane with you in regular size.
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Leatherman, Swiss Army knife, a tube of toothpaste and shoes with a double knot come to mind.
You can't see your family as they get off the jetway anymore. Remember that? If you never came home to waiting loved ones, it was nice.
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You can't see your family as they get off the jetway anymore. Remember that? If you never came home to waiting loved ones, it was nice.
When I worked at the airport I used my "go almost anywhere" badge to pick friends up at the gate. :D
Are you a certified, gun-toting, air marshall type pilot Golfer?
Seemed most of the pilots I knew who were so did so to get around the long security lines and avoid the search but I worked in cargo.
Oh yeah, to the OP, toenail clippers.
(http://www.ccrane.com/images/medium/dovo-toenail-clippers.jpg)
wrongway
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Leatherman, Swiss Army knife, a tube of toothpaste and shoes with a double knot come to mind.
You can't see your family as they get off the jetway anymore. Remember that? If you never came home to waiting loved ones, it was nice.
nvm, i found out leatherman was a multi-purpose tool online.
yup, i actually have that as one of my changes in the security section of my paper.
A few airports have actually changed this though. Pittsburgh Intl was the first airport in the country that allows non-fliers to go through security and into the airside terminal. The catch was, you had to be a hotel guest and you would have to request the pass and fill out the paperwork. This was to allow the hotel guests to go into the airport's airmall, (which pit was also the first airport in the world to create the airmall concept). So effectively, if you wanted to really greet your family at pit, you could by renting a hotel room. However, you might as well just purchase a $29 SWA flight to chicago as it would be cheaper. I believe Denver was supposed to be the second airport to do something along these lines.
I thought toenail clippers came from 9-11 but i couldnt remember.
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I think I flew October 2011 at the age of 14. I don't think I'll ever forget getting taken aside to take off my shoes as a nation guard soldier stood by with his M-16. Memories. :)
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Are you a certified, gun-toting, air marshall type pilot Golfer?
Seemed most of the pilots I knew who were so did so to get around the long security lines and avoid the search but I worked in cargo.
wrongway
I take guns with me when I travel most of the time but my time at the airlines was brief (14 months) between corporate jobs. First year pay was so poor that I couldn't afford the time off much less accommodations for the training. If I would have stayed at a 121 carrier or I find myself in a situation where that kind of a position is best for me then I'd definitely be an FFDO. I did take advantage of the H&K pistol offer for 121 pilots once upon a time. I didn't much care for the LEM trigger and sold the pistol since .40 is my least used caliber. I don't even load for it.
Heading out to Wyoming later this afternoon and will have a pistol, fly rod and waders in the baggage compartment in fact :)
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does anyone know, was mace allowed back then? on American 11, it was reported that a "chemical spray" was used that caused their eyes to burn and made it hard to breathe.
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Well here is my paper as of now... CC welcome. Its supposed to be an informative writing that shows a cause and affect
The attacks on September 11th, 2001, fundamentally changed the aviation industry in the way it looked at security both onboard flying aircraft and on the ground at the airport. On that day, nineteen hijackers successfully took control of four separate flights and affectively used them as flying bombs. Two Boeing 767’s fully loaded with fuel, were flown into the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers. Two Boeing 757’s, also fully loaded with fuel, were intended to hit two separate targets in Washington D.C., but only one of them made it to its target, The Pentagon. The other plane crashed in rural Pennsylvania after the passengers on board fought back.
Prior to 9-11, there had never been an organized terrorist attack that used the aircraft itself as the weapon. Hijackings had always occurred, but they always landed at an airport to use the passengers as hostages and to have their demands met.
The weapons used by the hijackers to take control of the planes have never been officially confirmed, but reports from three of the four aircraft were made before contact was lost on what weapons were used. On American Airlines Flight 11, Betty Ong, one of nine flight attendants on board, reported to dispatch the use of a “chemical weapon, which she described as ‘some sort of spray’ that made her eyes burn and made it difficult for her to breathe” (Epstein Fictoid 9) in the first class cabin. Also on flight 11, flight attendant Madeline Amy Sweeney reported that “the pilots, another flight attendant and a passenger had been stabbed or killed.” (Epstein Fictoid 9) On American Airlines flight 77, Barbara Olsen who was a passenger onboard, reported in a cell phone call to her husband that “the hijackers who herded her and other the [sic] passengers into the back of the plane had two kind of weapons: knives and cardboard cutters [presumably box cutters].” (Epstein Fictoid 9) Onboard United Flight 93, Tom Burnett told his wife during a call that he had heard that a pilot had been “Knifed”. (Epstein Fictoid 9) A flight attendant also reported that one of the hijackers had a “Bomb strapped on”. (Epstein Fictoid 9) It was also heard by air traffic controllers when the hijacker announced that they “have a bomb onboard” to Cleveland Center instead of the cabin intercom. (Wikipedia recording)
Of all the weapons, only the alleged bomb was illegal to be checked in. What allowed these weapons to even be used against the cockpit crew was the fact that the cockpit doors were typically left unlocked after takeoff and before landing. This gave the hijackers direct, unabated access to the cockpit.
After the attacks, it became clear that serious change was needed to protect the aircraft and passengers both in flight and on the ground at the airport. The first step was to change the aircraft. The cockpit doors were required to be changed on every single airliner flying in and into the United States with a door that was bullet proof. It was also required that the door remained closed and locked at all times during the flight to prevent cockpit intrusion. Also changed was the transponder. It is the electronic piece of equipment that sends signals to the ground so radar operators can see what blips are what planes and those said planes’ altitude, speed and heading. Prior to 9-11, the transponder could be turned off in mid-flight, but changes were made so that it had to be on the ground for it to be turned off.
Over the years, other programs have been set up to improve the safety on aircraft. One program was set up for the pilots to be trained to carry guns in the cockpit, so in the case of a cockpit intrusion, they can defend themselves against the intruder. Another program that had previously been set up but was very small when 9-11 took place was the Federal Air Marshal Service. Air Marshals would be trained and would fly on random flights and would look and act like a normal passenger, but would in reality be carrying a gun and would a police officer in the air.
The next step in securing our flights would come with changes made to the airports to eliminate current or possible future threats. Prior to 9-11, the FAA would conduct random tests at airports to find out how effective the screening process was. According to Edward Epstein’s Fictoid #9, “In 1998,… one FAA red team leader told the New York Times, ‘we were successful in getting major weapons— guns and bombs—aboard planes at least 85 percent [of] the time.’ The failure rate was as high as 97 percent at some airports.”
One of the very first changes was standardizing all of the airports’ security because not every airport even had metal detectors installed or other means of screening available. The security area also increased in size and personnel to allow a more thorough check. Also came the complete ban of box cutters (which had previous been allowed), toenail clippers, Swiss Army Knives and Leatherman multi-tools; all of which were considered to be used as possible weapons. Also changed, was no longer allowing the non-flying public through security and in the terminal gate area. This would prevent anyone from possibly sneaking onboard or around a plane where they could possibly sabotage it or give any flying passenger anything they shouldn’t have in flight.
Prior to 9-11, going through security meant walking through a metal detector and putting all of you checked items through an x-ray machine. After 9-11 and some more recent foiled terror plots, you have to take off your shoes and a belt if wearing one. Remove everything from your person so that its just you and your clothes. Walk through the metal detector. If you set it off, they will then wand you to find the item setting off the detector. If there is no item, but you are still setting it off, then they will pat you down to make sure you have not implanted anything under your skin. Your luggage is now also susceptible to random inspections which can include swabbing and testing for explosive material.
More recently, metal detectors have been replaced by full body scanning equipment. This new type of scanner takes x-ray images of your entire body even underneath your clothes. These scanners have also met great resistance with the flying community due to their higher radiation output and the invasion of privacy it has on the flying public. If a passenger refuses to go through these new scanners, they must then be submitted to an “enhanced” pat down that includes the intrusive touch of one’s private parts.
Since the attacks on 9-11, the security of passengers both in the air and on the ground has greatly changed. The aircraft were modified to help prevent attacks like that used on 9-11 from ever being successful again. The airports physically changed to become more secure and the passengers now have to go through a more thorough process of being screened
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Going to Jackson Golfer?
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Its been years since i have flown commercially (actually march 2001) and im writing a paper about the ways 9-11 changed the flying experience for better or worse with a focus on safty.
What info i need is what could be taken on aircraft prior to 9-11 that can no longer be taken on. Now, i know the TSA list, but the majority of that came after 9-11 from other attacks. Im more or less wanting things that came specifically from 9-11. Most likely they were everyday items that could be used as weapons.
Other than box cutters, what could no longer be carried on? I know the box cutters werent allowed then, but it was up to the airlines to enforce that rule.
Any help would be great! Thanks
Directly as a result of 911, nothing. The water bottles etc came after. And no, box cutters were not up to the airlines to enforce. You had to go through metal detectors back then also, cell phone and computers had to be turned on, and the computer picked you "randomly" for a fun search.
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If I'm correct, pre 9/11, you weren't required to show your ID to get through security, also, you didn't have TSA and that lot thinking that they were tough toejam.
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The biggest change I can think of is the amount of time it took to get through security.
Back in the day when I did a lot of air travel you could literally arrive at the airport 15 minutes before flight and still make it, though you may have to run through the airport.
I couldn't even begin to tell you the amount of times my employer would tell me to pack up my tools and supplies for a job minutes before I would have to leave to catch the plane. This created several circumstances where I would have to run through the airport to get to the gate and would usually be the last one on the plane from it.
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Remember the "Hoagie of Mass Destruction"? TSA wouldn't allow a sandwich on plane.
:cheers: Oz
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I'm not entirely sure on this one.......but I think flame-throwers were completely banned on all commercial aircraft, post 911
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Before 9/11 anyone could walk into the gates. Anyone could get a boarding pass. You didn't need to show your ID to get through security. I'm not even sure you had to show your ID to get on the plane. I remember my uncle helping us to move half way across the country. My mom flew with my newborn sister with a round trip ticket. My uncle drove one of our cars to the new house and then used that same round trip ticket to fly back with. That obviously wouldn't be allowed these days.
I remember going to the airport to pick my mom up back in 1993. I parked the car, walked through the air port, walked through a metal detector and met her right as she came out of the door for the ramp. You couldn't do that after 9/11.
If you notice the airports built after 9/11 have separate ramp areas where you have to go through security then get on a train or walkway to get to the ramps. Airports built before 9/11 have "makeshift" security checkpoints right at the entrance to the ramp areas. Personally I don't quite understand the overreaction as far as that goes. Why limit the gates to ticket holders? I don't recall ever hearing of any bombs going off in the airports themselves in the U.S...
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not completely true... some airports started to use landside and airside terminals (with trams in between) in the late 80's and early 90's. Pittsburgh has an airside and landside terminal and it opened in 92 i believe.
In the landside terminal is all the ticketing, security and bagauge. In the airside terminal is the full size mall and boarding gates.
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not completely true... some airports started to use landside and airside terminals (with trams in between) in the late 80's and early 90's. Pittsburgh has an airside and landside terminal and it opened in 92 i believe.
In the landside terminal is all the ticketing, security and bagauge. In the airside terminal is the full size mall and boarding gates.
yes you're correct... but generally speaking you can tell the airports that were designed with the new security procedures in mind. Here at Lambert it used to be one big open space and they've walled off a section and put the security right in the middle with ropes in place so you can't go around it as there was real separate lobby and boarding area...
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Well here is my paper as of now... CC welcome. Its supposed to be an informative writing that shows a cause and affect
pretty nice write up....but do you know that they could've instituted the same system the israilis use, for a LOT less money, and avoided the poop that goes on now?
i wish i could remember where i read it....but although nothing is supposed to get through, there's people paid to test security. wherever i read it, the article said that something near 80% of their employees managed to sneak something banned onto the aircraft.
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pretty nice write up....but do you know that they could've instituted the same system the israilis use, for a LOT less money, and avoided the poop that goes on now?
i wish i could remember where i read it....but although nothing is supposed to get through, there's people paid to test security. wherever i read it, the article said that something near 80% of their employees managed to sneak something banned onto the aircraft.
thanks...
i deffinately dont think we are any safer than before 9-11 but thats another topic.
but i was running out of time so i just stuck with that side of view as if we were safer. it just had to show a cause an affect...
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thanks...
i deffinately dont think we are any safer than before 9-11 but thats another topic.
but i was running out of time so i just stuck with that side of view as if we were safer. it just had to show a cause an affect...
it's ok. what you wrote is very nicely written......i tried to skirt anything that possibly might've gotten your thread locked.........
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I don't think you can use this thread as an actual source in your report. Too many people "remembering" things.
That said, I'll always remember the first time I got on an airplane post-9/11. It was mid-December 2001, and I was going on Masaba airlines from LAF to DTW to go home for Christmas. This is a small regional flight, I don't remember what kind of aircraft it was, but I think it only had 21 seats. The airport had a "definitely do not F with" guy from the National Guard with his hand on his holstered handgun staring down each and every passenger as we were checked through security. I guess I felt safer because of it, but I also realized what we lost as a nation after that.
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Dulles has been using the "trams" or mobile lounges since 1962.
Up to about 1968, some had a small bar in them.
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Dulles has been using the "trams" or mobile lounges since 1962.
Up to about 1968, some had a small bar in them.
When the Boeing 747 was new it was fairly standard for them to have a bar on the upper deck . I wonder how many stilll do ?
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Not sure about this one, but here at BG and ESPECIALLY at Orlando In't AP, they will announce the severity of the homeland security situation. At Orlando, it was "Code Orange" every single time we went.
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Before 9/11 anyone could walk into the gates. Anyone could get a boarding pass. You didn't need to show your ID to get through security. I'm not even sure you had to show your ID to get on the plane. I remember my uncle helping us to move half way across the country. My mom flew with my newborn sister with a round trip ticket. My uncle drove one of our cars to the new house and then used that same round trip ticket to fly back with. That obviously wouldn't be allowed these days.
I remember going to the airport to pick my mom up back in 1993. I parked the car, walked through the air port, walked through a metal detector and met her right as she came out of the door for the ramp. You couldn't do that after 9/11.
If you notice the airports built after 9/11 have separate ramp areas where you have to go through security then get on a train or walkway to get to the ramps. Airports built before 9/11 have "makeshift" security checkpoints right at the entrance to the ramp areas. Personally I don't quite understand the overreaction as far as that goes. Why limit the gates to ticket holders? I don't recall ever hearing of any bombs going off in the airports themselves in the U.S...
I think you are thinking of 9/11/1980. You could not just walk to the gates without a boarding pass in 2000
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Common sense is no longer allowed in Airports after 9/11.
"Strip search that Granny, figure out what's in her diaper! That retarded kid over there, take his lollypop, it could be a weapon! We need to enhanced patdown that little girl over there!!! Mr. Abdulla, please go right through, and take your Nigerian friend w/o a boarding pass or plane ticket... we's lookin for terrorists! HEY! STOP THAT PREGNANT WOMAN, SHE COULD BE KEISTERING HE!!!!"
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I think you are thinking of 9/11/1980. You could not just walk to the gates without a boarding pass in 2000
yes you could... it wasnt until 9-11 that you werent allowed to the gates.