Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Citabria on August 03, 2011, 12:54:29 PM
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why do you need to use rudder when you begin or end a turn but not when you are established in the turn?
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it bleeds speed?
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To counter the adverse yaw when ailerons are deflected.
see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw)
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To counter the adverse yaw when ailerons are deflected.
see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_yaw)
Most areo manufacturers model their aircraft in order to counteract that adverse effect without applying rudder. And that yaw effect is really only on larger aircraft if I recall correctly.
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While designs are created to minimize it, it is still there. Even the tailless designs of the Horten brothers still had adverse yaw.
Frise type ailerons, differential ailerons, spoilers, wing twist, and computer FBW designs are all used to counter it. The aircraft you mention that don't need rudder inputs probably fall into the FBW category.
Go grab a few hours in a 172 or similar then come back and let me know what you find :D
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keeping coordinated in you turns actually greatly improved your turn and e retention. Try it in AH, when you make a turn look a the ball and try and keep it centered, and you will be amazed.
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Zeagle and Bunnies are correct.
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
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err it was magically deleted.... nvrmind
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
That would be the right wing, it is traveling further so it is moving more air!
JUGgler
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why do i think that's a trick question. I'm guessing both are making the same lift.
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
If it's an F-4u, and the flaps are down, the answer is neither... The hover engines are just engaged.
:D
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
The outer (right) wing. It's moving faster.
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Common sense would say the right wing.
At the start of the bank however don't the ailerons kill the lift on the left wing and increase it on the right?
Is this what causes the yaw action, or is it from the increased drag of the left wing aileron?
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Common sense would say the right wing.
At the start of the bank however don't the ailerons kill the lift on the left wing and increase it on the right?
Is this what causes the yaw action, or is it from the increased drag of the left wing aileron?
adverse yaw is from the extra lift.. byproduct of lift is drag.
The outer (right) wing. It's moving faster.
see if one is making more lift though, wouldn't the plane keep rolling? thats why i figured both are the same in stable turn. :headscratch:
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
I seem to recall a comment that the wing produces the same lift no matter what the speed. So wouldn't the answer be "both produce the same"? Otherwise you'd be rolling into the turn or away from the turn. Also, this assumes the inner wing is not stalled, which disrupts/kills the lift on that wing.
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Does the aircraft have any dihedral? If it does the inner/lower wing might actually be producing more vertical lift.
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My answer to Fester's original question:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/cneq2.jpg)
:devil
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As for hitech's question, very evil indeed. Almost as evil as what creates lift. :devil
The answer of course is "it depends" ;). There's a whole host of other factors besides differences in relative velocity between inside and outside wings... sideslip, yaw, dihedral, cross-flow, power effects, vortex side-wash just to name a few.
For Krusty & kvuo, rolling moment = 0 doesn't mean that the wings lift are equal because there are various other variables that contribute to rolling moments.
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My answer to Fester's original question:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/cneq2.jpg)
:devil
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As for hitech's question, very evil indeed. Almost as evil as what creates lift. :devil
The answer of course is "it depends" ;). There's a whole host of other factors besides differences in relative velocity between inside and outside wings... sideslip, yaw, dihedral, cross-flow, power effects, vortex side-wash just to name a few.
For Krusty & kvuo, rolling moment = 0 doesn't mean that the wings lift are equal because there are various other variables that contribute to rolling moments.
Your a party pooper, btw the form of the equation you posted also can answer my question because the sum of all torque about the roll axis must be zero in the turn I described.
Also for most of the planes in our game, My gut tells me the prop is the primary torque creator hence it would be the wing that counters the engine torque.
HiTech
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/timppa/th_lomcevak_a_GIFSoupcom.gif)
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it is already, see SpitXVI, P-51, F4u and P-38 :devil :bolt:
But seriously, that kind of maneuverability has to do with a !@#$ load of thrust from the prop combined with a lot of prop wash over the tail, and low overall mass. The plane becomes kinda like a helicopter...I mean they can and do stand on their tails. Amazing to see. RC or full scale.
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/timppa/th_lomcevak_a_GIFSoupcom.gif)
A ton of power to weight ratio is what makes that bird do silly tricks.
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Your a party pooper,
lol, i should have left my statement at your question was :devil :devil :devil and stopped there. But my mother's teaching of not watching people run around with physics scissors got the best of me!
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
:D you'll have to ask hitech & pyro about that. :devil :devil :devil
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For Krusty & kvuo, rolling moment = 0 doesn't mean that the wings lift are equal because there are various other variables that contribute to rolling moments.
ahh indeed. see, I either thought it was a trick question, or a very complex question.. It turns out to be complex :)
I did not even think of propeller torque. :aok
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My answer to Fester's original question:
(http://thetongsweb.net/images/cneq2.jpg)
:devil
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As for hitech's question, very evil indeed. Almost as evil as what creates lift. :devil
The answer of course is "it depends" ;). There's a whole host of other factors besides differences in relative velocity between inside and outside wings... sideslip, yaw, dihedral, cross-flow, power effects, vortex side-wash just to name a few.
For Krusty & kvuo, rolling moment = 0 doesn't mean that the wings lift are equal because there are various other variables that contribute to rolling moments.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1O_GXw1fVmQ/TPtp0-24zNI/AAAAAAAAAE0/uZkyrd98nj8/s1600/bruce-conner-design-for-mankind-bombhead-412x516-1.jpg)
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
If engine is a clockwise spinner (engine torque force counter-clockwise) then the bottom wing will be producing a little more lift based purely on balancing the moments.
That's what I thunk anyways. I'm probably rong.
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/timppa/th_lomcevak_a_GIFSoupcom.gif)
Ya...let's find that plane in the hanger....
What plane number is it again?
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/timppa/th_lomcevak_a_GIFSoupcom.gif)
Have you watched this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3HPaXGUDrM&feature=player_embedded
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Have you watched this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3HPaXGUDrM&feature=player_embedded
no fair comparison, Lepape is godlike in a P47 :rock that goes for Jug to :rock
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Dtango, why this is not possible in AH2 ? ;)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v424/timppa/th_lomcevak_a_GIFSoupcom.gif)
Lumshevak?
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Lumshevak?
Close enough :). Lomcevak.
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I seem to recall a comment that the wing produces the same lift no matter what the speed. So wouldn't the answer be "both produce the same"? Otherwise you'd be rolling into the turn or away from the turn. Also, this assumes the inner wing is not stalled, which disrupts/kills the lift on that wing.
Even in level, steady flight, there are small differences in each wings lift, especially at slower speeds. :salute
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If a plane is in a steady 45 deg banked level turn to the left. Which wing is producing more lift. :devil
HiTech
Left wing. That is all...
got a 50% at being right :banana:
Coogan
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Left wing. That is all...
got a 50% at being right :banana:
Coogan
Read further to find the answer
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Just reread the posts. Looks like I'm right.
Coogan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBgHv_GgAW0
:noid
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next question, alex?
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How do you stay wings level and coordinated while upside down at the top of a loop?