Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: surfinn on August 06, 2011, 04:45:22 PM
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I would really like to see AC fuel as a resupply drop on jeeps, m3s, and c47s. Doesn't have to be a lot just enough for say 25% refuel. Wouldn't need a lot of effort to make it happen I don't think.
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I was just thinking about this the other day after I came up about 1K short of a runway after running out of fuel..
+1
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-1
Bring enough fuel for your planned sortie, and a safety margin.
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ya called check ur e6b and when ur fuel gets low retreat and go home dont get gready
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karnak sherman, what if your fuel tanks leak? then suddenly you have one fuel tank left. this would refuel that tank once dry and let the wounded flyer rtb. also this is a two person job not one. you'll still need a selfless person to give you the fuel which would be rare
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I call the last 1/4 of fuel, my "go home gas".
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+1
Force a 30 second wait like a rearm pad.
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-1
Plan your fuel.
Don't use the "What if your fuel gets hit?" either. It'd still leak if filled.
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-1
Plan your fuel.
Don't use the "What if your fuel gets hit?" either. It'd still leak if filled.
not my point losing a tank = less fuel and air time. youd use the remaining tanks to rtb and this doesnt always add to success
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If your tank is leaking, then I guess you don't get to rtb.
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karnak sherman, what if your fuel tanks leak? then suddenly you have one fuel tank left. this would refuel that tank once dry and let the wounded flyer rtb. also this is a two person job not one. you'll still need a selfless person to give you the fuel which would be rare
There is no "right" to RTB. Sometimes damage immediately stops you from RTBing, such as a wing being blown off, and sometimes it doesn't take you down immediately, but you still aren't going home, an oil leak for example.
All of your fuel tanks holed falls into the second category.
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There is no "right" to RTB. Sometimes damage immediately stops you from RTBing, such as a wing being blown off, and sometimes it doesn't take you down immediately, but you still aren't going home, an oil leak for example.
All of your fuel tanks holed falls into the second category.
So I guess we need to conserve ammo as well too...bring enough ammo and RTB when your out...no resup
LOVE THAT IDEA A LOT!
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So I guess we need to conserve ammo as well too...bring enough ammo and RTB when your out...no resup
LOVE THAT IDEA A LOT!
What?!?
:headscratch:
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Oops, just remembered that most planes have more than one tank. Apparently I need to fly more than 109's.
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I do plan to rtb with a safety margin but. The idea is to give the game another option. If ya fly some of the earlyer war ac like i do fuel is always a problem. Late War ac like 51ds will at times do nothing more than try to keep ya turning to waste your fuel especially if your rtb. So if ya survive that whats the problem with having a squadie refuel ya?
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Ok. So I read this thread, and thought it wasn't a bad idea. +1 :aok
But then it dawned on me...where would you be refueling this plane from, with you in your Jeep/M3?
There is no way in HECK that I could land a P-51 or a Mossie on the ground, away from a base of any sort-- the tall, steel wannabe trees make that impossible, and so do those hedges.
If you are going to land at a friendly base of any sort, you may as well just end the Sortie there, rather than trying to reach where you left from.
Just my 0.02$
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Show me a point in the war where a vehicle was driven miles to refuel a fighter that managed to safely land and I might support it.
There is no way in HECK that I could land a P-51 or a Mossie on the ground, away from a base of any sort-- the tall, steel wannabe trees make that impossible, and so do those hedges.
...I've landed plenty of times in the wilderness, sometimes those evil "combat ditches" to deny kills, even. It isn't that hard.
Then again, some people can't take off from a turning carrier either...
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What about introducing that german motorbike halftrack to tow planes back to the field?
After we get the M-18 naturally.
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A huge
-1
It is bad enough we have people demanding supplies for their tank as it is. Heck, if I had my way, I would make the time required to wait for supplies to take effect much higher or remove the supplies from the game altogether.
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I do plan to rtb with a safety margin but. The idea is to give the game another option. If ya fly some of the earlyer war ac like i do fuel is always a problem. Late War ac like 51ds will at times do nothing more than try to keep ya turning to waste your fuel especially if your rtb. So if ya survive that whats the problem with having a squadie refuel ya?
Do we really need a concession in-game to counteract the fact that one has been outflown or outfoxed now?
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Nope. Plan accordingly... :aok
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Remember in world war two there were Satellite fields set up in place for aircraft to refuel or rearm, Iwo Jima is a prime example of what happens when a plane needs a little help, however air dropping fuel I don't think its necessary in Aces High.
If you get hit in the fuel tanks or run out of gas, then its just another bad example of "things happen". You can up another plane 5 seconds later :)
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I really don't know what the problem is with this idea its another thing that could add to the fun of the game. Heck add a big fireball to a jeep or M3 that is carrying fuel when ya shoot it. I don't know how much effort on Hts part it would take to implement but it looks like most of the tools for this option are already in place with instant tank repairs in the field.
Oh and Von catching a low rtb early war ac and doing nothing but harassing it is a far cry from out flying it. If it was outflown it would be shot down not landing in the woods hoping for a light refuel. Heck that's right up there with jumping it with three other AC and bragging about how they were owned :lol
I haven't ever had you do something like that so the comment wasn't personal.
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I really don't know what the problem is with this idea its another thing that could add to the fun of the game. Heck add a big fireball to a jeep or M3 that is carrying fuel when ya shoot it. I don't know how much effort on HTs part it would take to implement but it looks like most of the tools for this option are already in place with instant tank repairs in the field.
Anyone waiting for you to ditch to kill would vulch your arse while you are getting fuel on the ground.
It would not fix a leak in your fuel tank.
Rearming/refueling as it is modeled now, does not effect repairs to your plane. If you have a leak and refuel, you leave the field with a full tank of gas...
that still leaks...
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I didn't say any thing about fixing leaks but most Ac in here have multiple tanks.
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I didn't say any thing about fixing leaks but most Ac in here have multiple tanks.
I must have been confused by this statement...
I really don't know what the problem is with this idea its another thing that could add to the fun of the game. Heck add a big fireball to a jeep or M3 that is carrying fuel when ya shoot it. I don't know how much effort on Hts part it would take to implement but it looks like most of the tools for this option are already in place with instant tank repairs in the field.
Oh and Von catching a low rtb early war ac and doing nothing but harassing it is a far cry from out flying it. If it was outflown it would be shot down not landing in the woods hoping for a light refuel. Heck that's right up there with jumping it with three other AC and bragging about how they were owned :lol
I haven't ever had you do something like that so the comment wasn't personal.
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-1 I think it will encourage people to take less than what they truly need for fuel. As for the concept of "what if i get a fuel leak" You can switch your tanks so that you don't fully drain them all. That would allow you a reserve if one tank gets hit. I usually take 100% fuel in all fighters, thats my saftey margin. For example in a FW190A8 I burn the aft down, then switch to my forward tank, leaving my reserve as a reserve.
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-1 I think it will encourage people to take less than what they truly need for fuel. As for the concept of "what if i get a fuel leak" You can switch your tanks so that you don't fully drain them all. That would allow you a reserve if one tank gets hit. I usually take 100% fuel in all fighters, thats my saftey margin. For example in a FW190A8 I burn the aft down, then switch to my forward tank, leaving my reserve as a reserve.
^ This :aok :aok
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-1. just because your fuel tanks run dry or you happen to lose fuel, thats your fault. plan accordingly. i always take 100% no matter what im flying, just be smart about your fuel and you will get the spotlight you need so much.
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I do plan to rtb with a safety margin but. The idea is to give the game another option. If ya fly some of the earlyer war ac like i do fuel is always a problem. Late War ac like 51ds will at times do nothing more than try to keep ya turning to waste your fuel especially if your rtb. So if ya survive that whats the problem with having a squadie refuel ya?
Translation: I ran out of gas with 2 kills and couldn't make it back to base for my name in lights!
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The plan accordingly argument is just flat a bunch of bull. If every flight you do in here went according to plan you wouldn't ever die now would you? This option would take team work to do and leave you and another player very vulnerable on the ground for a short period of time.
As far as the getting your name in lights I personally could care less about that and really kinda wish they would take that out of the text buffer. I do like to land my aircraft at a field and if you could do that with the help of a squadie driving a 25% max fuel boast a short distance away from a airfield or close to a vehicle spawn point then again whats the problem with that.
Von the Tank supply comment was just simply pointing out that the programing tools are already hear and shouldn't take much to modify for a simple fuel boost. I'm not a programmer though so my assumption may be in compleat error on that point. Only a fool would take less fuel than what he needed for his flight. I cant imagine anyone using it as a gamie option it would leave ya to exposed.
Ozz it happened in England quite often.
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Ozz it happened in England quite often.
wheres the proof? or is that just a bunch of bull?
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So I guess we need to conserve ammo as well too...bring enough ammo and RTB when your out...no resup
LOVE THAT IDEA A LOT!
you should that way we can stop those annoying 200 comments "go away no ammo".
semp
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wheres the proof? or is that just a bunch of bull?
There is one account in this book P-51 Mustang By Gardner N. Hatch, Winter Frank H.
A P-51 pilot named John P Kessler landed his ac safely off base refueled his air craft and flew it back to base the next morning.
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There is one account in this book P-51 Mustang By Gardner N. Hatch, Winter Frank H.
A P-51 pilot named John P Kessler landed his ac safely off base refueled his air craft and flew it back to base the next morning.
so, only one account of this happening?
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There is one account in this book P-51 Mustang By Gardner N. Hatch, Winter Frank H.
A P-51 pilot named John P Kessler landed his ac safely off base refueled his air craft and flew it back to base the next morning.
On that note, let's include resupply, and you can wait until the next morning to fly back to base. My guess is most of us will just end mission and be back in the air in 30 seconds.
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On that note, let's include resupply, and you can wait until the next morning to fly back to base. My guess is most of us will just end mission and be back in the air in 30 seconds.
Well lets do the same thing for the gv instant repair to. The time constraint in this account was the flyer celebrating Christmas with the locals. You kind of have to read between the lines on that one but I'm sure if he would have instantly contacted his base they would have sent a Jeep with fuel a lot quicker;)
Scorpion Ive read a lot of books over the years that gave several accounts of Air craft landing safely off base due to low fuel or simple mechanical failure. I gave you but one example from a book that I know of. That example alone is enough for you to hopefully man up and retract your early comment if not then do your own research and find other examples or find examples where they just left the plane in the field because it ran out of fuel never to be used again.
I swear the objectores in here just cant stand the thought of a kill they didn't earn getting away.
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With all the people on the forums who seem to want the ability to ferry gas, pick up pilots after they ditch, and whatever other drudgery type jobs people want modeled, why are there never enough GV supplies, town supplies, or troops where they're needed in the arenas?
Answer that, and you'll have the answer why it's not worth the code to implement.
Wiley.
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If the SECOND you request or accept the extra gas, your sortie is scored and marked as a loss (also awarding kill to the person that last shot you up), would you still want it? Keep in mind you've been given as a kill to a bad guy still flying. Maybe as a proxy for the nearest bad guy. Would you HONESTLY waste an hour or two coordinating a gas dropoff and refuel, etc?
Remember: I said "HONESTLY"... No fibbing just to forward your agenda. You're done. The score is computed. As far as the game is concerned you towered. Sortie over. Maybe even disable all your guns until you up a new plane to prevent abusing the system by refueling every 5 minutes next to a furball because you only took 25% to game the game.
Would you still want it?
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+1, I just want to drive the Jeep though.
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With all the people on the forums who seem to want the ability to ferry gas, pick up pilots after they ditch, and whatever other drudgery type jobs people want modeled, why are there never enough GV supplies, town supplies, or troops where they're needed in the arenas?
Answer that, and you'll have the answer why it's not worth the code to implement.
Wiley.
yeah these are the same people that wanted a ww1 arena, and the b29.
semp
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Krusty
Honestly no I wouldn't want that to happen. The person who last got a round in ya doesn't "deserve" the kill because he didn't get a kill if you can still land your ac refuel it and take off again. I'm not asking for nor do I want a instant repair or even more ammo just a fuel boost. Oh and to refuel every 5 mins next to a furball bringing only 25% fuel would be stupid. You would just give two kills to the furball, you and the person trying to help you.
To compare the code time it took to build a ww1 arena and this simple idea is a little bit extream I think :)
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+1, I just want to drive the Jeep though.
I wouldn't trust you with driving a garbage truck :lol
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Our terrains have fields pretty close together these days. However as a generality I like the idea of player created dumps.
IMO the real target is to effect seperate supplies for ammo, fuel, troops/repair.
I would not like to see aircraft repair in the field although some patch work was carried out at temporary fields. Dont see why troops shouldn't be dropped off to be later collected from a temporary strip.
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To compare the code time it took to build a ww1 arena and this simple idea is a little bit extream I think :)
It's nothing to do with the amount of time it takes vs the WWI arena, and more to do with 'adding something that gets used twice by everyone, then ignored by all but a couple of people'. Same with the B29. Majority voted for it, a tiny minority flies it.
Wiley.
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Krusty
Honestly no I wouldn't want that to happen.
That is your answer. It's all score related. You've been put down, shot down, or forced down. Your sortie is over. It would take a mere sliver of a fraction of the time to just reup a new plane and try again, but for perks, for kills, for score, for whatever reason you don't want to do that.
The person who last got a round in ya doesn't "deserve" the kill because he didn't get a kill if you can still land your ac refuel it and take off again.
He "deserves" it because he shot you down. He drained your fuel tanks. There is such a thing as manuever kill, you know? You don't have to fire a shot to get a kill. Either he flew you into the ground with no damage because YOU messed up and were gaming the game to fly at 25% internal fuel, or he shot you and put holes in your gas tank, making you run dry. Either way he earned the kill and force you out of the fight and onto the ground.
I'm not asking for nor do I want a instant repair or even more ammo just a fuel boost.
No, you just want instant do-overs. Your sortie is over. You lost. You have infinite tries. So just try again. It's not about how hard it would be to implement, IMO. It's the basic underlying principle of the matter. You were beat. You went into a fight and came out on the bottom end of the winning spectrum. Why should you deny the other player his/her well-earned kill? It's petty and it's like a toddler stamping his feet for a cookie before dinner (or fill in whatever selfish analogy here).
The ONLY function this would serve is to aid griefers and weak pilots that can't fly anything in a fight unless it has almost no gas onboard. The solution to 1 is an attitude adjustment. The solution to 2 is skill based and requires, simply, "more practice."
EDIT: Note that neither of those solutions involve changing the game...
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Krusty I'm not sure why yr so passionate about this topic. It's either personal with me, or you feal like this would have negative affect on your kill ratio.
The incident that made me think gee this sure should be a good option. I upped my fm2 with drop tanks and a full load of fuel climbed to 22k went to an area outside a dar ring where I thought I might have a chance at jumping p51D's. Found one dove on him killed him after a brief fight. At this time I had 50% fuel left and started to rtb. I always try to land at a base behind our lines. On the way back just outside of my base's dar ring I was jumped by three ac. After a very long fight all three were down and i was rtb with damage (no fuel leak though) I ran out of fuel and was able to glide and set my ac down within feet of the field. I really would have liked to land those kills. Its not everyday ya fight off three other ac at once :cool:
I personally never up with 25% fuel unless the base is being swarmed. In that case I'm not likely to land any way much less get far enough away from the base to use this option.
As far as the deserved comment goes. I just don't know what to say about that that I Haven already. If he shot ya down, made you augur or ditch with heavy damage then yes he deserves the kill. If the ac is able to still fly after fuel is added then no its not a deserved kill any more than it would have been in WW2. Think about it if the enemy con was still in the air and you tried to land a undamaged plane he would shot you on the ground so that comment makes zero since to me.
Can you outline a scenario for me where this would rob a player of their well earned kill?
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+1 to the idea. I think that on those few occasions when I have run out of fuel, it has been very close to the field (Closer than an enemy spawn). I would think that in real life saving a perfectly working aircraft would be a high priority. I dont think that the original poster intended this as a quick fix for a pranged aircraft. Whether a pilot is carrying kills or not is really not the point, and as for denying another pilot a kill, Im sure that if I landed and sat in friendly territory long enough , I could deny him his "kill" anyhow. I find that many in game dont seem to have any problem with GVs being repaired instantly in the field. So what is the problem then with a Jeep bringing a Jerry can of fuel to a plane that is whithin easy reach of the field.
Flame away
<S>
Carver
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+1 to the idea. I think that on those few occasions when I have run out of fuel, it has been very close to the field (Closer than an enemy spawn). I would think that in real life saving a perfectly working aircraft would be a high priority.
Not counting your sortie as "Landed" has literally nothing to do with whether the aircraft would have been recovered or not, historically.
Landing successfully is a gameplay reward. If you don't make it back, you didn't earn it. That may be due to enemy actions in putting holes in your fuel tanks or forcing you to keep fighting when you wanted to withdraw, or it could be because you didn't take enough fuel, but either way you failed to make it back to a field for a "Landed" reward.
Most of us have been there. I've had to use max cruise settings on many occasions. I've even shut off one of my engines to save fuel and make it. I've shut all engines off and glided just so I'd have power to land with. If I don't make it, it is just how it goes.
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Not counting your sortie as "Landed" has literally nothing to do with whether the aircraft would have been recovered or not, historically.
Landing successfully is a gameplay reward. If you don't make it back, you didn't earn it. That may be due to enemy actions in putting holes in your fuel tanks or forcing you to keep fighting when you wanted to withdraw, or it could be because you didn't take enough fuel, but either way you failed to make it back to a field for a "Landed" reward.
Most of us have been there. I've had to use max cruise settings on many occasions. I've even shut off one of my engines to save fuel and make it. I've shut all engines off and glided just so I'd have power to land with. If I don't make it, it is just how it goes.
That is a pretty clear and concise assessment of how it works.
If one does not have enough fuel to make it back to the tarmac, one has erred.
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Cohofly... I would think you are correct on the fact that a country would try to salvage a perfectly working plane.
What if instead of the Jeepload/M3Load/whateverload of the fuel, what if there were a couple of extra fuel cans put in the cockpit or something? Or maybe in a small storage area I am unaware of on only certain aircraft?
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No, you just want instant do-overs.
Shall we go back to the "repair pads are not real so we wont have them yet use a .ef command that will pull you out of that smoldering wreck and give you a factory fresh plane in half a second?" argument?
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There are other, more plausible, realistic and worthwhile uses for the jeep,m3,c47 etc. -1
If you are running out of gas without damage, you're doing it wrong.
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I wouldn't trust you with driving a garbage truck :lol
Come on, you can trust me with a Jeep and flammable liquids!
Which gives me another idea. How about when a Jeep carrying extra fuel is strafed, bombed or crashes off a 30k mountain, it explodes with a modest sized mushroom cloud?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/BarrelRool-1.jpg)
I don't care if I can fuel planes, just let me have the high explosi... fuel option!
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Come on, you can trust me with a Jeep and flammable liquids!
Which gives me another idea. How about when a Jeep carrying extra fuel is strafed, bombed or crashes off a 30k mountain, it explodes with a modest sized mushroom cloud?
(http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh473/cactuskooler/BarrelRool-1.jpg)
I don't care if I can fuel planes, just let me have the high explosi... fuel option!
:rofl
+1
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oh man thats great :lol :lol
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I see a lot of POV's that would also lend weight to the arguement that re-arm pads on bases should also go.
Frankly whilst generally pro the idea of player supplied fuel and bullets (if not bombs if properly modelled) I have long thought that the re arm pads should go.
Particularly when re arm pads pay no head to the general logistic status of the base upon which they are to be found.
I like the idea of squads being able to set up forward fuel/ammo dumps and use them appropriately (by transporting supplies to a location). Actually bases are generally so close together now there is hardly any need but I can think of some terrains where it would have worked very well.
From my perspective the arguement that it games the game is bogus, particularly when compared to and viewed in the light of the current (as ever was) rearm pad model.
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OK so its a small modification to existing resupply. It will add more fun to the game so its a win win for everyone. Man I relay like the expoding mushroom cloud cactus.
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+1
This would be a great addition to the game.
Also would like to add, how about GV's needing refueling. They burn gas yes? This could add a great dynamic to the game.
I can see the posts now... "Oh Crap my Tiger II ran out of fuel again on the way home to land my 7 kills. Can someone run me some fuel"
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GVs have no fuel burn in this game. The distances they travel never even remotely approach the limits of their fuel storage.
Tilt: I get that you don't like the hotpad, but you still must GET to the hotpad to use it, no? You cannot use the hotpad if you run out of gas 1 foot off of the pad, no? This is a wish to get you more and more free rewards for no work on your part. The hotpad doesn't repair you, it doesn't do anything you couldn't do simply by reupping a fresh plane (I won't get into the ord debate issue, I know it could be better!). Given 2 choices of ending a sortie and starting a new one or hotpadding, there is NO artificial benefit to taking the hotpad route.
This is totally different and you cannot compare the two. This is a power-up for people that either game the game or screwed up and ran out of gas. It's a pacifier for the whiners that want to land their kills but weren't able to. The challenge in the game is to make it back. If you don't, then you need to try again, try harder, and keep your fuel state in mind.
You really cannot compare them at all. No matter what happens if you use the hotpad you still must use your brain and RTB before you run out of gas. This is just a wish for people that don't think their actions through.
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Ahem, I just spawned 25-30 miles and used no gas. :) And yes Krusty I know they burn no fuel.. that aside..
I do watch my fuel load. RTB always at 25% religiously. Mobile refuel, hmm... do not see the down side. As for yourself Krusty it just shows your awesomeness that you would never need it.
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for all who say -1 whats the downside?
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The hundreds of squeakers crying on chnl200 for gas for starters...
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It cheapens the efforts of everybody else in the game. That alone is a massive detriment. It further de-values the "value" of landing safely in the first place. It brings the game down 1 step closer to arcade XBOX levels.
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The hundreds of squeakers crying on chnl200 for gas for starters...
ya I'm sure a ac on the ground would use 200 for a help call :rofl :rofl
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I am one of the few people who would (I actually have in my two weeks) willingly drop fuel/supps/whatever to an airman in distress.
:salute
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Actually if it were possible to COAD that the supplies could only be collected on the basis that they were there before the ac landed for refuel then I would support it. The idea for me is to create a temporary forward base....... not provide emergency fuel for pilots who did not make it back to base.
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The plan accordingly argument is just flat a bunch of bull. If every flight you do in here went according to plan you wouldn't ever die now would you? This option would take team work to do and leave you and another player very vulnerable on the ground for a short period of time.
As far as the getting your name in lights I personally could care less about that and really kinda wish they would take that out of the text buffer. I do like to land my aircraft at a field and if you could do that with the help of a squadie driving a 25% max fuel boast a short distance away from a airfield or close to a vehicle spawn point then again whats the problem with that.
Von the Tank supply comment was just simply pointing out that the programing tools are already hear and shouldn't take much to modify for a simple fuel boost. I'm not a programmer though so my assumption may be in compleat error on that point. Only a fool would take less fuel than what he needed for his flight. I cant imagine anyone using it as a gamie option it would leave ya to exposed.
Ozz it happened in England quite often.
This was a good idea the last couple of times someone made a thread out of it.
I suggest you dont waste your time trying to talk sense into the senseless, but I enjoy being reminded who's who and you never know, expose them to enough common sense and they might acquire some. Keep on fightin that BBS Justice League.
Go back and read the other threads on refueling a/c.
so, only one account of this happening?
No, it happened hundreds if not thousands of times on all sides. It happened before the war, it happened during the war, and it has happened since the war. It happened in training. It happened in combat zones. It has happened because pilots got lost, it happened because they got preoccupied and it happened because they got shot at. Anything else you want to know?
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My Mossie ran out of fuel the other day.
I still don't want this.
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I only read enough of this thread to get the pros & cons of this little debate.
My thinking is like a few notable others, here. Plan, plan, plan-bearing in mind there are many dynamic variables involved in any sortie or mission, INCLUDING getting your fuel tanks shot up.
I've put together many bomber sorties & missions, and people invariably ask me why I chose to launch from a far away field with "X"-amount of fuel, and why we don't haul *** right off the get-go to our destination & do our thing. It's simply because anything can happen. We plan our route, our fuel, our formation tactics, our altitude & exit accordingly, and it's the "bad-guy's" job to also plan how he/they will countermeasure our strategy.
The guys on the other side of the fence have an idea of what's going on as well. That's why this game is great at making you think about what you are doing before you commit yourself to either what turns out to be a great sortie/mission, or your unfortunate "demise".
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It cheapens the efforts of everybody else in the game. That alone is a massive detriment. It further de-values the "value" of landing safely in the first place. It brings the game down 1 step closer to arcade XBOX levels.
I have to double post for this one.
So you say someone else taking the added time and effort (more effort than your "successful" sortie as a matter of fact) to wait for fuel and work his way back to base "cheapens" your timid yet successful flight.
And you punish player A with a perfectly legitimate reason for running out of fuel because player B...MIGHT try to game the game. (as if someone would consider waiting an extra 20 minutes for a fuel drop, a cheat) :rolleyes: OMFG that's brilliant.
but in this thread-->
What you suggest penalizes player A for player B's actions. Might as well roll a dice on landing and randomly remove points for no reason.
You cannot police thought patterns Grizz.
It's ok to cheapen the efforts of everyone else by landing wheels up in a perfectly good plane.
:ahand