Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Changeup on August 12, 2011, 10:25:11 AM
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The Grizz Venn System Is a relatively old technology applied recently to determine an aircrafts easy-mode classification. As seen in the thread Spit 16 perkd?, that still persists, there have been some AH enthusiasts that question the systems ability to properly determine an EZ mode classification.
The first bird called into question is the Brewster. The Grizz-Venn System has rated the Brewster above the Mendoza line thus placing it in NON-EZ mode area. Some have suggested that there may be less than arms length transactions occurring between Wmaker and Grizz to purposefully protect the Brewsters classification. Those relationships could be Grizz is dating Wmakers sister, Wmaker is dating Grizzs sister, Wmaker is Grizz, Grizz is Wmaker, Grizz is Wmakers father, Wmaker is Grizzs father and finally, and the least likely, Grizz and Wmaker live together in Finland, make snow snow shoes in their spare time while creating aimbot software that is sold on the black market for euros that are then converted to Yen, sold at premium when converted to the British pound and then finally used to buy US Treasury bills at a discount (see US Securities and Exchange Commission vs. Mr Grizz and Mr Wmaker).
The question remains.....IN YOUR OPINION....IS THE BREWSTER AN EZ MODE AIRCRAFT?
Please remember to state your rational...thank you for participating in this ghettolicious project.
Changeup
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It can be difficult to fight a Brewster that has some alt on you; they dive well and have good control at higher speeds. However, if you can make them bleed energy they have trouble getting back up to speed.
If I see a Brew diving on me, I allow him to overshoot while keeping my G load low. After a short scissor, I can extend to 1.5k, go vertical, and watch him stall beneath me.
I think the biggest complaint is from people that attempt to maneuver with the Brewsters. You need to read their E state and extend out at just the right moment; if you do it too late, they will have the angles, and too early and the Brew will have the energy to get a shot.
edit: in regards to easy mode, I have to say they are very forgiving, pack a good punch, and can turn fight with the best of them.
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Please remember to state your rational...thank you for participating in this ghettolicious project.
Changeup
you had me at "ghettolicious" :aok
i dont really consider most brewsters much of a threat by themselves, i treat them like hurricanes and zeros. i'd agree that the brew is correctly situated in the "turny" catagory, but like a few others given a dedicated pilot it may drift into the EZ mode zone for a moment or so.
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:rofl Changeup. Thank you for paying it forward. I have slaved in that thread the last two days to help Soulyss get through boring days at work. I hope this thread propels us into the weekend. :banana:
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I'd say brewster is more EZ than the Zeke personally due to it's similar characteristics, and ability to sponge damage that the zeke doesn't have.
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I'd say brewster is more EZ than the Zeke personally due to it's similar characteristics, and ability to sponge damage that the zeke doesn't have.
The zeke is the best turner in the game though and will thrash the brewster in a turn fight.
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:rofl Changeup. Thank you for paying it forward. I have slaved in that thread the last two days to help Soulyss get through boring days at work. I hope this thread propels us into the weekend. :banana:
It is my pleasure...it is my sincere hope that your body of dedicated work on the Grizz-Venn classification system never be called into question, regardless of how you handle Wmakers sister or your currency-trading accounts held offshore. :salute
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The zeke is the best turner in the game though and will thrash the brewster in a turn fight.
But we're not talking about a world of Zekes versus Brewsters. Both planes require altitude to create their art. Without proper setup, neither is a credible threat to anything else. All I know for sure is, a Zeke with alt is somewhat of a threat if you're not careful. A Brew with alt on you is always a threat unless you've got a ton of smash. That plus the aforementioned damage sponging capabilities make it clearly EZMode.
Wiley.
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The zeke is the best turner in the game though and will thrash the brewster in a turn fight.
Sir, that statement was proved conclusively to be incorrect by the testing JUGgler performed on or about 12 Jan 2011. The thread is out there.
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:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
in my humble opinion.. no plane in aces is easy to fly...this i know for certain... i'm currently staying in a back packers, so i am sometimes surrounded by people who come visit this country...they have seen me play which they think is damn easy for them to handle... so since i am a nice guy... i usually relinquish my controller to those interested and tell them to give it a go.... none of them can fly straight...let alone shoot something down... even with me behind guiding them... which of cos changes their perception of this cartoon game i play..
so with all that said... i think any plane which can turn the tightest on a st8 and level flight would be an easier plane for newbies, as they would be less likely to get shot down in a dogfight, as compared to using a 190D or any 109 variants...
so to say a brewster is an easy fighter, is not really a fair comment... if you said the brewster was a an easier fighter to turn fight...i would almost certainly immediately agree....as would be the a6m.
well how i see it is... it depends on the pilot that makes a plane good... not the other way around... take adolf galland for instance... he's an ace in the 109, but he hates the 109 and what it cannot do compared to the allied planes...thats just my thoughts...
:cheers:
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you had me at "ghettolicious" :aok
i dont really consider most brewsters much of a threat by themselves, i treat them like hurricanes and zeros. i'd agree that the brew is correctly situated in the "turny" catagory, but like a few others given a dedicated pilot it may drift into the EZ mode zone for a moment or so.
WADR, the question was regarding the Brewsterz Classification....EZ mode or not and why? Every plane is EZ for moments...Remember, do not take into account the pending litigation against Mr Grizz and Mr Wmaker...that fact is not relevent tomthis case and cannot be used as a factor in making your determination.
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Sorry ChangeUp, I hate to break this to you but I'm about as straight as they come. I'm sure you'll find that special someone someday...but please, get off my ankle.
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Sorry ChangeUp, I hate to break this to you but I'm about as straight as they come. I'm sure you'll find that special someone someday...but please, get off my ankle.
i understand defense mechanisms, but please! on topic! :rofl
uber brewster pilots not included in this determination, i'd have to say that the brew, pesky as they may be, is not an EZ mode ride, per say
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i understand defense mechanisms, but please! on topic! :rofl
Not a defence mechanism, just stating a fact. It is ok to hit on someone regardless of the gender, but no means no for both.
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Not a defence mechanism, just stating a fact. It is ok to hit on someone regardless of the gender, but no means no for both.
jokes man, mere jokes :aok
you fly a very mean brew, maybe the meanest in all of toon airplanes land. if that qualifies as an ankle hump, don't worry. i just stopped in for a quickie :uhoh
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Sorry ChangeUp, I hate to break this to you but I'm about as straight as they come. I'm sure you'll find that special someone someday...but please, get off my ankle.
Your ankle isn't worth humping...you fly a Brewster. Come back and see me when you are thick-skinned enough to take a little ribbing like the rest of of us. I thought that cold climate would get your skin a little thicker but clearly you have petulant child tendencies and your feelings of inadequacy are too often worn on your sleeve. Please don't throw your laundry out in the street for us to see as evidenced by you stating that I called your sexual preference into question...I didn't ever mention that....Freudian slip on your part?
Now, back to the question...I see Wmakers vote is in....next?
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jokes man, mere jokes :aok
you fly a very mean brew, maybe the meanest in all of toon airplanes land. if that qualifies as an ankle hump, don't worry. i just stopped in for a quickie :uhoh
Was talking about ChangeUp, not you. :)
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Your ankle isn't worth humping...you fly a Brewster.
But you fly a Spit9. A Spit9 is much more EZ than a Brewster.
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But you fly a Spit9. A Spit9 is much more EZ than a Brewster.
That remains to be seen. But your defense of the Brewster does give credence to the OPs concern of preferential treatment of the Brewster and possible shenenagins between Wmaker and yourself....something is afoot... :D
Maybe you in a Spit 9 and Wmaker in a Brewster in the DA best of 5 would help settle it...considering you both are tremendous sticks in the game. Yes, I believe that would be excellent.
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Your ankle isn't worth humping...you fly a Brewster. Come back and see me when you are thick-skinned enough to take a little ribbing like the rest of of us.
I haven't said a thing about you, and you constantly bring my name up without single comment from me towards you.
I thought that cold climate would get your skin a little thicker but clearly you have petulant child tendencies and your feelings of inadequacy are too often worn on your sleeve.
Nothing wrong with me. See above. Keep your mouth shut and I'll certainly keep mine, as I have. It is you who started humping my ankle.
Please don't throw your laundry out in the street for us to see as evidenced by you stating that I called your sexual preference into question...I didn't ever mention that....Freudian slip on your part?
See above. That was the only reason I could think of for this strange facitation you seem to have towards me.
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I haven't said a thing about you, and you constantly bring my name without single comment from me towards you.
Nothing wrong with me. See above. Keep your mouth shut and I'll certainly keep mine, as I have. It is you who started humping my ankle.
See above. That was the only reason I could think of for this strange facitation you seem to have towards me.
Please don't flatter yourself... Your name is attached to the Brewster...there is no other reason for me bringing your name into anything except I like to make fun of people that take themselves so seriously that they crumble under any jovial comments sent their way and you sir, fall into that pit of despair regularly.
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That remains to be seen. But your defense of the Brewster does give credence to the OPs concern of preferential treatment of the Brewster and possible shenenagins between Wmaker and yourself....something is afoot... :D
Maybe you in a Spit 9 and Wmaker in a Brewster in the DA best of 5 would help settle it...considering you both are tremendous sticks in the game. Yes, I believe that would be excellent.
I do think the Spit9 would win that fight, but that does not even address more important attributes that determine success in the MA, such as being a faster aircraft, hispanos (quick kill ability), and better visibility. The only thing the spit9 really lacks in general is top end speed and has a nasty stall if you get too slow at the top of a stall. It is a very easy and deadly bird to fly.
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Drag C/D on brew is lower than what many may think. Probably why so many guys get killed climbing with a brew in tow sharing the same E state and then are suprised to see the brew stay on them despite sometimes a 1000 HP difference (K4).
http://books.google.com/books?id=FrvrkXYDCL8C&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213&dq=%22Brewster+Buffalo%22+drag&source=bl&ots=bBfc4WU1g8&sig=gnCGF1NnxXwiXRLe1LNRWyth9sg&hl=en#v=onepage&q=%22Brewster%20Buffalo%22%20drag&f=false
However, only 1000HP and weak guns (relatively speaking to other planes in the EZ mode category) keep it above the "Mendoza Line".
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Did changeup get killed by wmaker?
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While I don't consider the Brew a true EZ mode plane there are indications of nefarious activities concerning the Brew. I am leaning towards a clandestine partnership between the Finns and SAPP. Much along the lines of the known SAPP blender hack, I do believe through the work of high ranking members of the Consortium of 12 an agreement (through bribes obviously) with Hitech himself that a new hack has been released. I will from this point forward refer to it as "Operation Pickled Herring". The Pickled Herring hack allows the Brew to drive faster than a jug, outclimb K-4s, outturn anything, .50 and .30 cals that hit harder than 20mm, and absorb damage like a lancanster. I do believe SAPP underestimated the Finnish capacity for bribery though. While the Consortium was just trying to getting the Finns a small advantage like the blender hack (which only requires one bottle of single malt scotch a month), Dale has actually been receiving an entire case of scotch a month from a PO Box somewhere deep in Finland. This breach of protocol has forced the Consortium to make Silat work double shifts on her favorite corner to generate enough funds to send Dale a case and a half of scotch a month to regain their blender hack in an upgraded version.
The Grizz-Venn system is accurate in its Brew classification although the Finns and SAPP are now sharing status as Hitech's bottom-feeding scotch underground railroad.
:noid
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Did changeup get killed by wmaker?
Noooooo.....it's a continuation of Grizzs thread about perking the 16... Wmaker took things personally.......AGAIN.
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...While the Consortium was just trying to getting the Finns a small advantage like the blender hack (which only requires one bottle of single malt scotch a month), Dale has actually been receiving an entire case of scotch a month from a PO Box somewhere deep in Finland. This breach of protocol has forced the Consortium to make Silat work double shifts on her favorite corner to generate enough funds to send Dale a case and a half of scotch a month to regain their blender hack in an upgraded version.
The Grizz-Venn system is accurate in its Brew classification although the Finns and SAPP are now sharing status as Hitech's bottom-feeding scotch underground railroad.
:noid
I thought the hack was a slider for both HP and Weight on the Brew.....
I also thought all SAPP had SILATs aimbot. Are we limited to only one in game hack now depending on the distribution of single malt scotch?
Hitech, a case of Lagavulin (mmm Islay) for clear optics on tanks! Help the old guys with bad eyes out!
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304106.0.html
The test conducted by Dr JUGgler....
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Noooooo.....it's a continuation of Grizzs thread about perking the 16... Wmaker took things personally.......AGAIN.
It's not ACE's fault. Bruv runs a tight ship over in Few country and forbids them from reading threads where the Spitfire is portrayed in negative light. He was forbidden from opening that thread.
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We did some reflection on the amount of FEW avatars on certain threads. We came up with a complex mathematical equation which limits the number of FEW avatars across the BBs.
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I will be traveling the next few days. Please limit the fun threads till around Wednesday. Thank You :D
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It's not ACE's fault. Bruv runs a tight ship over in Few country and forbids them from reading threads where the Spitfire is portrayed in negative light. He was forbidden from opening that thread.
Is that like vDallas forbidding the vTard minions to fight during a torch- mob mission?
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In my opinion the Brewster does not have enough edge in several key areas to be considered EZ. It has a great sustained turn radius and that is about it. It lags in speed, climb, and overall hitting power in comparison to a lot of the current plane set. Not all, but most.
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Is that like vDallas forbidding the vTard minions to fight during a torch- mob mission?
I thought the new refererence was vHoles.
Did you not get the directive or did I miss a meeting?
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Is that like vDallas forbidding the vTard minions to fight during a torch- mob mission?
Settle down. :cheers:
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Settle down. :cheers:
Simply analogizing...and must have been accurate! :aok
Shuffler...no sir....apologies. It must have been left as a UNIDOR (unless I'm directed otherwise)
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I flew a brew 3 days ago...easiest 3 kills I have ever made in AH career. Nuff said
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Simply analogizing...and must have been accurate! :aok
Wow.
The Devils Brigade (64) = The Few (40 on the list)
I would say the following. If you have multiple wings (4) with 52 members, the pigs are probably closer to the devils brigade, for analogy sake.
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I flew a brew 3 days ago...easiest 3 kills I have ever made in AH career. Nuff said
Then why did you die two times to get those three "easy" kills? Ouch, I can only imagine how many times you die per kill in other planes...
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Dammit where is that popcorn gif when you need it!
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Wow.
The Devils Brigade (64) = The Few (40 on the list)
I would say the following. If you have multiple wings (4) with 52 members, the pigs are probably closer to the devils brigade, for analogy sake.
Yes but no more than 30 are active...I guess that makes the Few closer to the vTards than the PIGs are.
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Then why did you die two times to get those three "easy" kills? Ouch, I can only imagine how many times you die per kill in other planes...
:rofl unlike you I dont give a hoot about being a score twit. This is why I up off completely gulches fields in which those deaths came from. :rolleyes: keep flying your Brewster wmaker, only plane you will ever know to fly :salute
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Yes but no more than 30 are active...I guess that makes the Few closer to the vTards than the PIGs are.
:rofl funny, we can't get 5 people online after 5pm eastern
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:rofl unlike you I dont give a hoot about being a score twit.
I don't care about my score particularly, I just fly. But I have to say I rather RTB than chase my own tail.
This is why I up off completely gulches fields in which those deaths came from.
But of course. :)
:rolleyes: keep flying your Brewster wmaker, only plane you will ever know to fly :salute
Heh, whatever. Had been flying AH about 9 years before the Brewster came out, and still continue to fly plenty of other planes. :) Keep digging. :)
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Yes but no more than 30 are active...I guess that makes the Few closer to the vTards than the PIGs are.
I would say we are sitting in the mid teens... keep lots on the rolls over the years. Nice try though. I went with total # because I figured you would contest "active" members.
Now if your sole purpose in any thread to is to find an easy target and amuse yourself, ok, you are defining yourself (more like re-affirming). You may want to pick another person or squad. Right now you are speaking for the pigs, yes? Frankly I was very happy to see the BBs squad chest thumping wars abate. I guess there was not enough drama on the BBs for you and this is why you are flaming every other post. Well done.
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:rofl funny, we can't get 5 people online after 5pm eastern
We rarely have more than 10...
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We rarely have more than 10...
Touché :cheers:
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Touché :cheers:
In all fairness though, we sometimes have 20 plus friends!!! Lol
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I do think the Spit9 would win that fight, but that does not even address more important attributes that determine success in the MA, such as being a faster aircraft, hispanos (quick kill ability), and better visibility. The only thing the spit9 really lacks in general is top end speed and has a nasty stall if you get too slow at the top of a stall. It is a very easy and deadly bird to fly.
Ok...the litmus test...2 brand new people with 1 hour instruction....1 v 1....who wins?
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Btw, I completely agree that the Spit9 would win. There really isn't much the Brewster can do unless the Spit9 driver screws up royally.
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Ok...the litmus test...2 brand new people with 1 hour instruction....1 v 1....who wins?
Assuming one of them survives and they both don't stall and pile into the ground, the Brew, if they've called 'no HOing'. 2 guys with that little time are going to naturally both try to out-flat turn each other. That is, unless the guy flying the Spit is taught to use the vertical and is able to gun effectively while doing it, which is a pretty tall order for a 1 hour new guy IMO.
Wiley.
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The question remains.....IN YOUR OPINION....IS THE BREWSTER AN EZ MODE AIRCRAFT?
def EZ mode, and thats not opinion, its fact..... look a the diagram!
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Btw, I completely agree that the Spit9 would win. There really isn't much the Brewster can do unless the Spit9 driver screws up royally.
I've seen some brewsters climb surprisingly well, they may not have the speed but the combo of the guns (being very destructive even when making long distance shots) to ability to fly & maneuver well when slow means that as long as they can get an angle on the spit, the spit will be toast.
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If you knew how the vTards were formed, you'd know that they have a completely different mindset from the Pigs.
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I've seen some brewsters climb surprisingly well, they may not have the speed but the combo of the guns (being very destructive even when making long distance shots) to ability to fly & maneuver well when slow means that as long as they can get an angle on the spit, the spit will be toast.
Heh, I have to say that this right here told me a lot. :) Something that is very common with people whining about Brewster. No offence (really, honestly, this time) but between the lines that post of yours screams "I don't know how to e-fight". I really don't claim to be any sort of expert myself nor do I really know how you "e-fight" but that is exactly the message that post of yours gives.
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Heh, I have to say that this right here told me a lot. :) Something that is very common with people whining about Brewster. No offence (really, honestly, this time) but between the lines that post of yours screams "I don't know how to e-fight". I really don't claim to be any sort of expert myself nor do I really know how you "e-fight" but that is exactly the message that post of yours gives.
good, so I got you again?!
this is getting easier and easier
but its true, I don't know how to 'e-fight' nor do I know how to fight at all... I just ho and run.... I leave the picking to you :aok
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good, so I got you again?!
this is getting easier and easier
Trolling me? Ok, you so got me. :rolleyes:
The point I was trying to make is this:
All that the Spit9 driver has to do in dueling type situation is to pull into shallow zoom climb and from there into a large climb spiral with WEP on. After couple circles in that climbing spiral Brewster is left several k-ft below the Spit. And that's it. Unless the Spit driver screws up, either the Brewster is dead or the situation is a draw which basically means that the Brewster pilot is overall better. The Spit can simply peck the Brewster to death using aggressive E-fighting tactics, like high yo-yos and therefore gives Brewster very little time to breath and grab E...something that the Brewster won't do very fast anyway. In the end, Brewster is slow and on the deck from constant maneuvering to evade the Spit's passes and doesn't have the E to make another evasive well enough and dies.
Most simply can't e-fight aggressively enough and when they try to do it, they do it wrong and give the Brewster a shot and then come to whine here on the BBS rather than actually trying to learn something.
The difference in climb rate becomes simply massive as the Spit spirals higher and higher:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=2&p2=101&pw=2>ype=2)
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I'm not gonna read through this whole thread but I can say that the Brewster has became one of my favorite planes. I was up at about 12K in it the other day and came across a P51D about 1K below me. I dove on him and we got into a nice little fight for a few seconds before a 109G-14 and I a 109K-4 showed up. I got shots on all of them and had 2 of them leaking oil but never could get a good kill shot on them. after what must have been 6 or 7 minutes of fighting the G-14 put a tater in me and that was the end of it for me.
But I'm a HORRIBLE pilot and a HORRIBLE shot. I can't stress that enough. I think my K/D ratio is like 0.15 this month so far (for whatever thats worth). I highly doubt I could have lasted that long in a 3vs1 in any other plane. That being said I consider the Brew to be a pretty uber plane but it definately lacks in armament (remember I'm a horrible shot). Now if the thing had a couple 20mm cannons on it, it would be my go to ride everytime I upped.
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It can be difficult to fight a Brewster that has some alt on you; they dive well and have good control at higher speeds. However, if you can make them bleed energy they have trouble getting back up to speed.
If I see a Brew diving on me, I allow him to overshoot while keeping my G load low. After a short scissor, I can extend to 1.5k, go vertical, and watch him stall beneath me.
I think the biggest complaint is from people that attempt to maneuver with the Brewsters. You need to read their E state and extend out at just the right moment; if you do it too late, they will have the angles, and too early and the Brew will have the energy to get a shot.
edit: in regards to easy mode, I have to say they are very forgiving, pack a good punch, and can turn fight with the best of them.
this is it right here you have to watch thier E which the Brew is very capable of hiding. If the Brew pilot goes up hes dumb or he shoot well. :devil youll find out which quickly.
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Trolling me? Ok, you so got me. :rolleyes:
The point I was trying to make is this:
All that the Spit9 driver has to do in dueling type situation is to pull into shallow zoom climb and from there into a large climb spiral with WEP on. After couple circles in that climbing spiral Brewster is left several k-ft below the Spit. And that's it. Unless the Spit driver screws up, either the Brewster is dead or the situation is a draw which basically means that the Brewster pilot is overall better. The Spit can simply peck the Brewster to death using aggressive E-fighting tactics, like high yo-yos and therefore gives Brewster very little time to breath and grab E...something that the Brewster won't do very fast anyway. In the end, Brewster is slow and on the deck from constant maneuvering to evade the Spit's passes and doesn't have the E to make another evasive well enough and dies.
Most simply can't e-fight aggressively enough and when they try to do it, they do it wrong and give the Brewster a shot and then come to whine here on the BBS rather than actually trying to learn something.
The difference in climb rate becomes simply massive as the Spit spirals higher and higher:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=2&p2=101&pw=2>ype=2)
Wmaker, I know how to e-fight, I like to 'whine' about the toon brewster because you get so upset about it. You go on insulating tirades and you starting talking like your end-all know-all of toon air combat. sorry but its funny....
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Wmaker, I know how to e-fight, I like to 'whine' about the toon brewster because you get so upset about it. You go on insulating tirades and you starting talking like your end-all know-all of toon air combat. sorry but its funny....
Whatever. I'm not a know-it-all of "toon air combat" nor ever claimed to be. If you want to spread useless and clueless disinformation for what ever reason and make yourself look ignorant in the process, by all means do so. It's not against the rules of this board. I on the other hand would like this board to be a useful tool for those new to the game for example. I know what they say about opinions but that is how I see it. And no, I don't get upset because bunch of clueless morons harp about something they don't have a faintest clue about. I must admit that many times I find it a bit frustrating but I do see the entertainment value of idiots aswell.
And btw, when you first started whining about Brewster and made your pitiful attempts to find something wrong with it, it was clearly a bit more than just try to "make me upset".
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Threads like this are why I come to the BBs.
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Trolling me? Ok, you so got me. :rolleyes:
The point I was trying to make is this:
All that the Spit9 driver has to do in dueling type situation is to pull into shallow zoom climb and from there into a large climb spiral with WEP on. After couple circles in that climbing spiral Brewster is left several k-ft below the Spit. And that's it. Unless the Spit driver screws up, either the Brewster is dead or the situation is a draw which basically means that the Brewster pilot is overall better. The Spit can simply peck the Brewster to death using aggressive E-fighting tactics, like high yo-yos and therefore gives Brewster very little time to breath and grab E...something that the Brewster won't do very fast anyway. In the end, Brewster is slow and on the deck from constant maneuvering to evade the Spit's passes and doesn't have the E to make another evasive well enough and dies.
Most simply can't e-fight aggressively enough and when they try to do it, they do it wrong and give the Brewster a shot and then come to whine here on the BBS rather than actually trying to learn something.
The difference in climb rate becomes simply massive as the Spit spirals higher and higher:
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=2&p2=101&pw=2>ype=2)
Let the record show that Mr. Grizz does not think the Brewster is EZ mode, and he stands by his previous evaluation and subsequent location of said Brewster on the Venn Diagram.
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Let the record show that Mr. Grizz does not think the Brewster is EZ mode, and he stands by his previous evaluation and subsequent location of said Brewster on the Venn Diagram.
Rgr, doesn't really rock my boat on any direction anyway...I was just responding to Ardy and certainly agreeing with you regarding Spit9 vs. Brewster. I'm quite sure you pretty much have the same thoughts about the match up as I.
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I on the other hand would like this board to be a useful tool for those new to the game for example. I know what they say about opinions but that is how I see it. And no, I don't get upset because bunch of clueless morons harp about something they don't have a faintest clue about.
trying to take the high road, while still trying to insult me.... classic...
I can just see it, wmaker trying to train a 'new guy'
"You moron, you don't know a thing about air combat, I could make a toaster fly better than that. What, why are you so stupid, look at these diagrams, all I gather is you suck, your flying sucks and you should shut up because it is only I that matters"
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I've seen some brewsters climb surprisingly well
So some Brewsters climb well, some don't? Hmmmmmm.... sounds quite suspicious.... :eek:
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trying to take the high road, while still trying to insult me.... classic...
I can just see it, wmaker trying to train a 'new guy'
"You moron, you don't know a thing about air combat, I could make a toaster fly better than that. What, why are you so stupid, look at these diagrams, all I gather is you suck, your flying sucks and you should shut up because it is only I that matters"
Depends on the attitude of the guy. You've certainly deserved all the crap that has flown your way since the Brewster was introduced to this game. You had "an attitude" right from the start and actual facts didn't really matter to you. That said, it is true that I'm not much of a teacher because of several reasons one being the communication via internet can be frustrating. I'd be much happier to do it face to face.
I would just liked to see this board to have better signal to noise ratio. And when idiots scream their unscientific opinions as facts without any regard to, ahem facts, it tends to get frustrating and certainly my tone then gets more abrasive. I don't tell a heart surgeon how to do his job but you were happy to doubt Brewster's flight model with practically zero knowledge of aerodynamics and no in-game testing. After doing so, as far as I'm concerned, you deserve every bit of ridicule you can get.
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I don't tell a heart surgeon how to do his job but you were happy to doubt Brewster's flight model with practically zero knowledge of aerodynamics and no in-game testing. After doing so, as far as I'm concerned, you deserve every bit of ridicule you can get.
all because I questioned the brewster :rofl :rofl :rofl your such a cute BBS totalitarian.
bring it angry arrogant one!
I'm actually glad I did, because if I hadn't I would have never met you <3. You are the source of hours of comical BBS entertainment!
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Let the record show that Mr. Grizz does not think the Brewster is EZ mode, and he stands by his previous evaluation and subsequent location of said Brewster on the Venn Diagram.
I will ask again....2 new players, 1 hour of the exact same flight instruction. A 1 v 1 ensues post- training....one in a Brew and one in a Spit 9. Who wins Grizz?
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I will ask again....2 new players, 1 hour of the exact same flight instruction. A 1 v 1 ensues post- training....one in a Brew and one in a Spit 9. Who wins Grizz?
Kind of a crap shoot if you ask me. That's like asking who would win in a boxing match between two men with no arms.
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all because I questioned the brewster :rofl :rofl :rofl your such a cute BBS totalitarian.
I think my point was actually rather valid. If it would be "ok" to "accuse" pyro of modelling mistakes without any actual proof there would be very little point to have logical discussion about the modelling of these virtual aircraft in general. It is not just about the Brewster with me and it actually never has been but many, just like you has failed to understand it. It is true that I have done some "research" regarding the flying qualities and performance of the Brewster so it is rather easy for me to see when someone is talking complete BS but that is really beside a greater point.
And that greater point is the fact that it is the development of natural sciences like math and physics that has enabled humans to built these aircraft and make them "safe" to operate and to be able to do the things they were meant to do. And it is those same natural sciencies that are used to model them in AH. There is no opinions about it, there is no "I think this or I think that". Either something is wrong/right or it isn't. The aircraft in question doesn't matter.
There is no way to "doubt" anything without serious research and number crunching unless its something trivial like top speeds and weights. That is something you still fail to see and probably won't ever grasp.
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Kind of a crap shoot if you ask me. That's like asking who would win in a boxing match between two men with no arms.
I don't follow...I thought the hispanos were an advantage....seems like that should be Arnold sized arms
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That is something you still fail to see and probably won't ever grasp.
ohh ohh ohh.. nice singer... too bad I am an engineer.
to bad you never considered that people, unlike you, may perceived that something was possibly off about the brewster but didn't want to spend the time to 'mathematically' verify it.
oh wait, this isn't about the brewster is it? its about your EGO and how you think your smarter than everyone else (except a select few to whom you favor or embrace your false sense superiority).
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ohh ohh ohh.. nice singer... too bad I am an engineer.
Well, this gets sadder by the minute.
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Now who's sister was easy again?
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I don't follow...I thought the hispanos were an advantage....seems like that should be Arnold sized arms
The fight would likely be decided by HO, Ram, Both, or Auger. Ok, so the Spit9 has the HO edge. What are you getting at? This does not help shed light on your original question at all imo.
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Well, this gets sadder by the minute.
My name is Wmaker and I am gods gift to knowledge and intelligence.
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The fight would likely be decided by HO, Ram, Both, or Auger. Ok, so the Spit9 has the HO edge. What are you getting at? This does not help shed light on your original question at all imo.
It was a question to get clarity on your analogy which was strange. That being said, you and I both know the Brew pilot wins that fight. It's an easier plane to fly...I'm not saying the Spit isn't...just that the Brew is easier...
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Threads like this are why I come to the BBs.
When is the next tournament? :old: :bolt:
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It was a question to get clarity on your analogy which was strange. That being said, you and I both know the Brew pilot wins that fight. It's an easier plane to fly...I'm not saying the Spit isn't...just that the Brew is easier...
How is the Brewster easier to fly than the Spit9? :headscratch:
Better yet, tell me one thing difficult about the Spit9.
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How is the Brewster easier to fly than the Spit9? :headscratch:
Better yet, tell me one thing difficult about the Spit9.
from the first merge on, most people will resort to turning hard to get the angle. This plays into the brewsters favor.
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from the first merge on, most people will resort to turning hard to get the angle. This plays into the brewsters favor.
Hmm assuming that is true, how does that make the Brewster easier to fly?
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How is the Brewster easier to fly than the Spit9? :headscratch:
Better yet, tell me one thing difficult about the Spit9.
1. Brew is easier to handle in slow turns
2. Brew has multiple degrees of flaps enabling smooth transitions vertically or horizontally
3. Brew is lighter and easier to muscle around
4. Brew is more forgiving under stress of slower speeds
5. Brews higher roll rate enables easier directional changes
6. Brews taller, wider rudder enables simpler turn transitions and stability
7. Brews stall speed is lower
8. Brews stall handling characteristics are superior so the augerer will undoubtedly be the Spit
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I know I've been away for a while, but what's with the Wmaker bashing? :huh He's always been a stand up and informative guy and I've never seen him out of line in-game nor here on the boards.
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Hmm assuming that is true, how does that make the Brewster easier to fly?
I should revise my statement and say its easier for the Brewster to get the kill. If both players go for angles, the Brewster with its superior turn radius and slower stall speed will have the adv.
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:rolleyes:
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We need a pink Brewster, aww yeah. :banana:
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I know I've been away for a while, but what's with the Wmaker bashing? :huh He's always been a stand up and informative guy and I've never seen him out of line in-game nor here on the boards.
Well since the Brewster has come out hes taken it upon himself to be be head of the Brewster Defense League. It would not be so bad if he wasn't such a pompous body part.
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Well since the Brewster has come out hes taken it upon himself to be be head of the Brewster Defense League. It would not be so bad if he wasn't such a pompous body part.
Have I really? And is beating clueless people with facts the same as being pompous? It is funny how likes of you don't seem to see the other part of the problem. That obviously has a lot to do with your stance on the issue.
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Well since the Brewster has come out hes taken it upon himself to be be head of the Brewster Defense League. It would not be so bad if he wasn't such a pompous body part.
+1
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Have I really? And is attempting to beat people with clueless insults is the same as being pompous? It is funny how likes of you don't seem to see the other part of the problem. That obviously has a lot to do with your stance on the issue.
fixed :aok
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<sigh>
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I know I've been away for a while, but what's with the Wmaker bashing? :huh He's always been a stand up and informative guy and I've never seen him out of line in-game nor here on the boards.
You are not Messiah.
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You are not Messiah.
Not anymore, my "protege" has taken the name and from what I hear he's not a bad jug pilot. Now put him in a K4 and then it will get really confusing. :lol
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It's not ACE's fault. Bruv runs a tight ship over in Few country and forbids them from reading threads where the Spitfire is portrayed in negative light. He was forbidden from opening that thread.
K4 is just as easy as the spit :). In my hands atleast I'm sure its the same for you and your squad aswell
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It's not ACE's fault. Bruv runs a tight ship over in Few country and forbids them from reading threads where the Spitfire is portrayed in negative light. He was forbidden from opening that thread.
I tell bruv he is a spit dweeb almost every day :) :bolt:
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Not anymore, my "protege" has taken the name and from what I hear he's not a bad jug pilot. Now put him in a K4 and then it will get really confusing. :lol
LOL. Dragging him out of Jug is impossible Sir!
:salute
Way
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K4 is just as easy as the spit :). In my hands atleast I'm sure its the same for you and your squad aswell
Was that a joke?
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Fact :p :D
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I did find it funny that on Grizz's diagram the B-239, which turns as well as the A6M3 while having much better guns, being much more durable and has much better high speed handling, is rated so much farther from "easy mode" than the A6M series.
There were a lot of things on his chart that I disagreed with, but a lot of this is personal opinion, so it is hard to discuss and reach an agreement.
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So uber even the Japanese turned their zero's in. :t
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii99/Unplugged24/brewster-buffalo2.jpg)
Crazy's first skin rough draft, move it on over spitfire.
(http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii99/Unplugged24/brewster-1.jpg)
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The plane is not scarry - the pilot is and the brew can really carry a pilot - good guns, good speed, sneaky little target. . .whenever I see one, I know it will take two.
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Does anyone have the link to JUGlers's thread about the brew outturning a6m's? If this is true we need to change the brew engine sound to a calliope. :D
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ohh ohh ohh.. nice singer... too bad I am an engineer.
to bad you never considered that people, unlike you, may perceived that something was possibly off about the brewster but didn't want to spend the time to 'mathematically' verify it.
oh wait, this isn't about the brewster is it? its about your EGO and how you think your smarter than everyone else (except a select few to whom you favor or embrace your false sense superiority).
Since when do train drivers know anything about flying? :P
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Does anyone have the link to JUGlers's thread about the brew outturning a6m's? If this is true we need to change the brew engine sound to a calliope. :D
When it was introduced I did an informal fly off between it and the A6M2 and A6M5b. The A6M2 slightly out turned it. The B-239 noticeably out turned the A6M5b.
I haven't flown against it in an A6M3.
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Since when do train drivers know anything about flying? :P
:rofl :rofl
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Has the brew been nerfed at all in the last 5 months?
If not it is still easy....
Reasoning...ability to change direction in that plane at most speeds is incredible...Zeaks have to worry about breaking off parts at high speeds. Guns...some say 4 50s is kinda weak for guns but i think thats just because they can't aim...give you a longer range to touch people at and in close they are still lethal with a single short burst. Plane doesn't lose it's E fast like say a KI61, but yet is a good diver.
Eny on the bird should be lowered to the same as the Hurricane seeing they show similar k/d in almost every tour for the last 6 or so months....
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Eny on the bird should be lowered to the same as the Hurricane seeing they show similar k/d in almost every tour for the last 6 or so months....
There is a bigt difference in K/D between Hurri II and B-239. For the first 6 months of this year, the Brewster had an average K/D of 0.85 while the Hurri had 1.32. See my chart on the first page of the "Spixteen perked?" thread.
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Eny on the bird should be lowered to the same as the Hurricane seeing they show similar k/d in almost every tour for the last 6 or so months....
There is a bigt difference in K/D between Hurri II and B-239. For the first 6 months of this year, the Brewster had an average K/D of 0.85 while the Hurri had 1.32. See my chart on the first page of the "Spixteen perked?" thread.
Heh. :)
...sometimes it really makes you wonder...
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Another Brew-brew fight...
As for the zeeks: The Brewsters clearly superior to the a6m2: has WAY better guns, can take some damage, turns a bit worse but still wins in the scissors due to the better roll-rate.
Very close to the a6m3 in the low-speed turnfight characteristics, but still has better guns, isnt a zippo lighter and can dive. True, climbs a lil bit worse and slower at medium to high alts.
Outmaneuvers the a6m5 but slower. Still has better guns, can hang on the prop 'forever' and can dive.
in 1v1 it eats the hurri2C for lunch. In the many vs many, the hurricane should win.
Its clearly the best turnfighter in game, what also can dive (catch the opponent, very inportant), controllable at 60mph with its nose pointed straight up, can get kills from 800 yards... but dead once youre co-E.
I got Maker once when he was in the Brew. True, i was a timid beyotch, but did exactly what can make a brewster: avoid the BnZ, extend when it slows down, climb then turn the tables.
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True, i was a timid beyotch, but did exactly what can make a brewster: avoid the BnZ, extend when it slows down, climb then turn the tables.
I think I remember that engagement. You weren't a timid B*tch at all! You flew exactly how you are supposed to fly in a G-6 against a Brewster.
Don't take this as an excuse but I was sure that killshot which IIRC took my vertical stab wasn't going to hit me and that was the reason I evaded the way I did. I had to look it from the film as I was so sure that you didn't have the angle to hit. When viewed from the film, the hit was like 4-5 plane lengths behind my plane. I know there is certain lag all the time due to the speed of the Internet but that amount of lag is more than I usually experience. I do realize that due to the Internet we are "dragging a target behind us" it just was more behind that time than I've usually experienced. :) I have to dig that film up, it was an engagement that stuck to my mind. :)
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Does anyone have the link to JUGlers's thread about the brew outturning a6m's? If this is true we need to change the brew engine sound to a calliope. :D
Here it is...I was a participant along with Shuffler etc...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,304106.0.html
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Has the brew been nerfed at all in the last 5 months?
If not it is still easy....
Reasoning...ability to change direction in that plane at most speeds is incredible...Zeaks have to worry about breaking off parts at high speeds. Guns...some say 4 50s is kinda weak for guns but i think thats just because they can't aim...give you a longer range to touch people at and in close they are still lethal with a single short burst. Plane doesn't lose it's E fast like say a KI61, but yet is a good diver.
Eny on the bird should be lowered to the same as the Hurricane seeing they show similar k/d in almost every tour for the last 6 or so months....
FU junky nerfed my arse. 20 beers and it still flew like chit, yet i saw akak boastin his pounce kil wooo
im spying on these Pigs on the wing, will give info when i know wtf they talking about . code waystins in the barn :headscratch:
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FU junky nerfed my arse. 20 beers and it still flew like chit, yet i saw akak boastin his pounce kil wooo
im spying on these Pigs on the wing, will give info when i know wtf they talking about . code waystins in the barn :headscratch:
lol fun flying with ya last night Ivan.
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Updated Venn
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/ez-3.png)
Brewster has been adjusted slightly.
Zekes adjusted slightly
G14 added
La7 Adjusted
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When viewed from the film, the hit was like 4-5 plane lengths behind my plane.
Im sorry... even tho we live relative close to each other, that dang signal has to travel all the way to Texas and back to Europe... I have about a ping of 200, possibly you have the same, thats half a second overall, whats a LOT.
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Updated Venn
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo237/grizz441/ez-3.png)
Brewster has been adjusted slightly.
Zekes adjusted slightly
G14 added
La7 Adjusted
Not quite acceptable yet...more data to come.
Changeup
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Im sorry... even tho we live relative close to each other, that dang signal has to travel all the way to Texas and back to Europe... I have about a ping of 200, possibly you have the same, thats half a second overall, whats a LOT.
Your plane was a bit jerky during that engagement and I remember we talked something about your ISP after that fight. Did you perhaps change it after that? Because in all the fights we've had after that one your connection has seemed as smooth as anything else. Mine is somewhere around 182ms on this ADSL, it used to be around 160ms on cable.
Found the film btw! Ironically, I didn't lose vertical stab but caught fire from one clansing hit. :D Something only happens to Zekes but never on Brewsters I hear. :D I would upload it but I haven't installed filezilla on this 'new' rig of mine yet.
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I know I've been away for a while, but what's with the Wmaker bashing? :huh He's always been a stand up and informative guy and I've never seen him out of line in-game nor here on the boards.
Just don't question anything that he has proclaimed himself "master of all knowledge of" or he'll verbally abuse and insult you back into hiding! :rofl
I quite frankly couldn't give a crap about the Brewster and flight model one way or the other, I just find it amusing that about every third post I see from Wmaker is him going off on an angry, insulting tirade because someone doesn't think it's as "non-uber" as he thinks it is. :rolleyes:
Possibly the perception of Wmaker in this manner is a result of the impersonal nature of bbs communications and he's a much more reasonable, personable guy in real life than he appears here.
Or possibly his real life personna actually is the arrogant, condescending Napoleon-complex he sometimes appears to be on the bbs...... Most of us will never know! :)
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Just don't question anything that he has proclaimed himself "master of all knowledge" of or he'll verbally abuse and insult you back into hiding! :rofl
I quite frankly couldn't give a crap about the Brewster and flight model one way or the other, I just find it amusing that about every third post I see from Wmaker is him going off on an angry, insulting tirade because someone doesn't think it's as "non-uber" as he thinks it is. :rolleyes:
Possibly the perception of Wmaker in this manner is a result of the impersonal nature of bbs communications and he's a much more reasonable, personable guy in real life than he appears here.
Or possibly his real life personna actually is the arrogant, condescending Napoleon-complex he appears to be on the bbs...... Most of us will never know! :)
The point just won't go across, obviously. I'm sure my short fuze is partly to blame, no doubt. But no one seems to (or wants to?) look at the reason why my fuze has gotten shorter and shorter. On this board, and I guess in Internet in general, it seems to be ok to post any kind of BS drivel and then when some one calls the BS talker on it they tend to act all hurt and insulted as we all know how delicated and tender people's feelings can be, and then the guy who called on it is the bad guy. No matter how many times the said BS talker spreads his manure, he has to be treaded with silk gloves, no matter how low he manages to drop the level of the discussion. With enough of this kind of idiots, attitudes and BS talkers any meaningful discussion degenerates into something that doesn't have any information value what so ever but the disinformation value is through the roof.
I have absolutely zero need to "defend" Brewster here. No proof of its aledged "overmodelling" has been forthcoming and the reason for that is that every test I've done on it and compared the results to the primary source materials shows that it is actually pretty dang close. Even if it would be overmodelled, the ones who think it is couldn't really prove it anyway because generally they show no motivation or/and ability to do any research or testing.
And as I said, in the end, it isn't even about Brewster but the methodology and logic how claims like these should be made and what kind of proof should be put forth with them in general. I just happen to have studied Brewster enough to remember an ok amount of numerical values of it off hand so it is easy for me to see right away when someone is talking complete BS about it. And oh dear, this board sure is full of it compared to the actual useful information. And because of these loud mouths that don't follow any reasonable logic or methdology or do any research, the useful informantion drowns in a big pile of manure, which in itself is a great shame and a source of great amounts of frustration.
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Venn diagram should presuppose logic.....
So many logical fallacies don't know where to begin.
Let's start with fallacy of quality...... Any comparison other than brew vs brew is subjective.
Ez mode compared to what????????
Once you put both pilots in a brew it only deducts to what pilot is better.
I can ho a brew in a 47 and call the 47 ez mode.... :headscratch:
Venn diagram only works with deductive sylogism, and is only visual representation of deduction. Otherwise pure speculation. :salute. To grizz for the troolll.
The venn diagram presupposes deductive logic, anyone arguing subjectively is using inductive logic... Lol can't be done.....
Make it a real argument put you guys is any same plane as Wm and most will get a can of wooop prettythang.
Anyway Wm doesn't need me to hump his ankle. Funny stuff no other pilot in a brew gets the rant that Wm gets... Probably because none can own so easily in it. :ahand :devil :bolt:
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Make it a real argument put you guys is any same plane as Wm and most will get a can of wooop prettythang.
Anyway Wm doesn't need me to hump his ankle. Funny stuff no other pilot in a brew gets the rant that Wm gets... Probably because none can own so easily in it. :ahand :devil :bolt:
In my book WMaker is a great guy/stick and always will be no matter what he flys. :salute I had to :D
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Venn diagram should presuppose logic.....
So many logical fallacies don't know where to begin.
Let's start with fallacy of quality...... Any comparison other than brew vs brew is subjective.
Ez mode compared to what????????
Once you put both pilots in a brew it only deducts to what pilot is better.
I can ho a brew in a 47 and call the 47 ez mode.... :headscratch:
Venn diagram only works with deductive sylogism, and is only visual representation of deduction. Otherwise pure speculation. :salute. To grizz for the troolll.
The venn diagram presupposes deductive logic, anyone arguing subjectively is using inductive logic... Lol can't be done.....
Make it a real argument put you guys is any same plane as Wm and most will get a can of wooop prettythang.
Anyway Wm doesn't need me to hump his ankle. Funny stuff no other pilot in a brew gets the rant that Wm gets... Probably because none can own so easily in it. :ahand :devil :bolt:
You win the "Hamlet Skull in Hand To Be or Not To Be" Post of the Day. Wtg Socrates.
(http://andretchaikowsky.com/miscellaneous/hamlet_600.jpg)
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Lol grizz funny stuff.. :salute.
Did I kill all the fun? Wm and two others only one that have the brains to know what I'm talking about. So no harm done.
Keep up the good work. I like a good pillow fight. :aok
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I love the Brewster, tho it doesnt really fit my style of play. You cant take them for granted cause its very likely the enemy in them knows what hes doing. A 0.74 K/D is the same as a D-Hog only with no ords. You mention W-maker, but there are also others. Ive loved the plane since it was first intro'ed.
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On Wmaker: When the Brew came out, I dug and dug to find a way to make the Brewster not be what it is perceived to be. After some pretty interesting discussions with Wmaker, about an airplane he is clearly passionate about, I have come to this conclusion. 95% of the people in this game have an altered perception of the Brewster because they try to fight it on its terms. The fact is, no one has come forward with any data to refute the existing flight model of the Brewster. Until that occurs, it is what it is. Everyone (including myself in the past) who uses anecdote to refute math needs to have their egos checked. It is entirely possibly for a Brewster to shoot down a 262. It is entirely possible for a Brewster to climb in the vertical with or better than a K4. The same as it is for every plane on the turny bird list of the ven diagram. It all depends on the airspeed and E state of the faster plane, period. Leave the man alone unless you bring something other than I got my dogtag bent because....I tried to turn fight a Brewster in a Pony and the Brewster managed to shoot me down. This is impossible because (insert some statistic on HP, ROC, etc...)
On Sonicblu: Put some time in and come up with another product. I don't like this because (insert random statement here) is weak. Reality is that Grizz's chart there is clever, and also took some time to put together. It makes sense to me and is an interesting way of structuring the fighters. Thats all it is, not a personal attack on a style of flying or a particular plane.
I do apologize for the diatribe, but really, this cupcake crap annoys me. The potential for really good discussion on this thread keeps getting offset by personal attacks/agendas.
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Lol grizz funny stuff.. :salute.
Did I kill all the fun? Wm and two others only one that have the brains to know what I'm talking about. So no harm done.
Keep up the good work. I like a good pillow fight. :aok
Just playin. :D
:salute
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I think the F4u-1 and -a hogs should be just inside the mendoza line @ hybrid. Also for all intents and porpoises, the spit5 and seafire are very very comparable, yet apart on the venn...
you're also missing the total set circle that encompasses the subsets you've presented - "dweeb" :aok
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The point just won't go across, obviously. I'm sure my short fuze is partly to blame, no doubt. But no one seems to (or wants to?) look at the reason why my fuze has gotten shorter and shorter. On this board, and I guess in Internet in general, it seems to be ok to post any kind of BS drivel and then when some one calls the BS talker on it they tend to act all hurt and insulted as we all know how delicated and tender people's feelings can be, and then the guy who called on it is the bad guy. No matter how many times the said BS talker spreads his manure, he has to be treaded with silk gloves, no matter how low he manages to drop the level of the discussion. With enough of this kind of idiots, attitudes and BS talkers any meaningful discussion degenerates into something that doesn't have any information value what so ever but the disinformation value is through the roof.
I have absolutely zero need to "defend" Brewster here. No proof of its aledged "overmodelling" has been forthcoming and the reason for that is that every test I've done on it and compared the results to the primary source materials shows that it is actually pretty dang close. Even if it would be overmodelled, the ones who think it is couldn't really prove it anyway because generally they show no motivation or/and ability to do any research or testing.
And as I said, in the end, it isn't even about Brewster but the methodology and logic how claims like these should be made and what kind of proof should be put forth with them in general. I just happen to have studied Brewster enough to remember an ok amount of numerical values of it off hand so it is easy for me to see right away when someone is talking complete BS about it. And oh dear, this board sure is full of it compared to the actual useful information. And because of these loud mouths that don't follow any reasonable logic or methdology or do any research, the useful informantion drowns in a big pile of manure, which in itself is a great shame and a source of great amounts of frustration.
you don't get it do you?
The difference between holding a conversation with you and say Stoney or dtango, is that they keep to the facts and are respectful. You on the other hand choose to pepper every other phase with an angry insult or a self aggrandizing comment. As long as you continue to behave that way, it doesn't matter what you say, you will be thought of as an a-hole and be treated likewise.
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Updated chart observations:
No way is the A6M3 easier than the B-239. A6M5b might be easier, but I am skeptical. The A6M3 and A6M5 are faster and climb better, in all other ways the B-239 is superior. Pretty much like comparing the Bf109K-4 to the Spitfire Mk IX. If you were being consistent, the Bf109K-4 would be rated as easier than the Spitfire Mk IX, but it isn't.
Spitfire Mk XIV is, at best, on par with the Bf109K-4. In practicality, I think the Bf109K-4 is a bit easier, but that is a close debate.
Ki-61 is, in no way, easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
Ki-61 is not easier than any F4U.
Ki-61 is not easier than the F6F-5.
Bf109G-6 is not easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
The speed and acceleration of the Bf109G-14 make it significantly easier than the Bf109G-6.
P-38J and P-38L are significantly easier than either the Bf110G-2 (in an air-to-air capacity) or the Mosquito Mk VI.
The Mosquito Mk VI is harder to be successful in than either the Fw190A-5 or P-51B.
Typhoon's poor roll rate and spread guns make it noticeably harder than the F4U-1C.
The Spitfire Mk VIII's significant advantage in speed and acceleration/climb makes it noticeably superior to the Spitfire Mk IX.
I don't think the addition of 120 20mm rounds and naval equipment make the Seafire Mk II that much better than the Spitfire Mk V.
I'm no F4U expert, but the divergence you have for the F4U-1 and F4U-1A/F4U-1D doesn't match my limited time in them.
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To truly appreciate grizz's chart one must evaluate it from a scenario or style of flying.. ie...
If two people are in the DA and the expectation is to turn fight (not extend for 6k then bnz etc..), then the zero/brewster/hurry etc.. will be on the 'EZ mode' section and the 190 a8 will be considered hard.
Now...
If one is in the MA and both planes enter co-e, the chart changes mildly, as some of the faster rides can extend, gain e, and then us that adv to beat the other planes.
But, say if its a multi-con engagement where people are constantly coming in at the top of the furball and progressively fighting lower and lower or where one plane has a significant 'e' advantage, then the chart changes again as a turny bird with more 'e' has more options, as long as it can dive well (preventing the lower con from being able to extend and normalize e states).
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To truly appreciate grizz's chart one must evaluate it from a scenario or style of flying.. ie...
This makes no sense. That would make it so subjective as to make it meaningless. There is nothing that should cause the F4U-1 to be rated that differently from the other F4Us or the Seafire Mk II to be rated that much easier than the Spitfire Mk V.
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you don't get it do you?
The difference between holding a conversation with you and say Stoney or dtango, is that they keep to the facts and are respectful.
Considering your behaviour ever since the Brewster was introduced, you don't deserve any respect, none what so ever.
You from that other thread:
"somewhere in Finland
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411MD6KPR8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)"
You've behaved like that all along. I could say that I have never in my life felt a need to treat someone without respect until he gives me a reason. Had you come across differently from the start, I most certainly would have done the same. I have absolutely no need to tear into someone without a reason.
If someone starts questioning Brewster's performance on these Boards and I haven't seen him before I most certainly give him benefit of the doubt and answer with facts. Usually the first thing that needs to explained is the huge weight difference between B239 and F2A-3. You acted like a moron right start and I treated you as one, as simple as that.
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And Ardy, I read through this thread from my first response to you. Just as I said in that response, it wasn't meant as an offence, I sincerely told you how your response sounded and how you came across. Your response was something nonsense like "I got you again, haha" or something equally stupid. Read the whole thing through and think; where did it all actually start to degenerate? Admittledy my tone was abraise from there on but I didn't single you out I was talking about larger group of people after that.
The point is that you should already know better because we've been trhough all this before and you still choose to harp about without bringing anything new and concrete on the table, that's where my tone comes from.
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Updated chart observations:
No way is the A6M3 easier than the B-239. A6M5b might be easier, but I am skeptical. The A6M3 and A6M5 are faster and climb better, in all other ways the B-239 is superior. Pretty much like comparing the Bf109K-4 to the Spitfire Mk IX. If you were being consistent, the Bf109K-4 would be rated as easier than the Spitfire Mk IX, but it isn't.
Spitfire Mk XIV is, at best, on par with the Bf109K-4. In practicality, I think the Bf109K-4 is a bit easier, but that is a close debate.
Ki-61 is, in no way, easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
Ki-61 is not easier than any F4U.
Ki-61 is not easier than the F6F-5.
Bf109G-6 is not easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
The speed and acceleration of the Bf109G-14 make it significantly easier than the Bf109G-6.
P-38J and P-38L are significantly easier than either the Bf110G-2 (in an air-to-air capacity) or the Mosquito Mk VI.
The Mosquito Mk VI is harder to be successful in than either the Fw190A-5 or P-51B.
Typhoon's poor roll rate and spread guns make it noticeably harder than the F4U-1C.
The Spitfire Mk VIII's significant advantage in speed and acceleration/climb makes it noticeably superior to the Spitfire Mk IX.
I don't think the addition of 120 20mm rounds and naval equipment make the Seafire Mk II that much better than the Spitfire Mk V.
I'm no F4U expert, but the divergence you have for the F4U-1 and F4U-1A/F4U-1D doesn't match my limited time in them.
I concur with your assessments but then that is my opinion. There are hole's everwhere and I have said before it is subjective. There is nothing to back up the distribution of planes other than Grizz's opinion.
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Considering your behaviour ever since the Brewster was introduced, you don't deserve any respect, none what so ever.
You from that other thread:
"somewhere in Finland
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411MD6KPR8L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)"
You've behaved like that all along. I could say that I have never in my life felt a need to treat someone without respect until he gives me a reason. Had you come across differently from the start, I most certainly would have done the same. I have absolutely no need to tear into someone without a reason.
If someone starts questioning Brewster's performance on these Boards and I haven't seen him before I most certainly give him benefit of the doubt and answer with facts. Usually the first thing that needs to explained is the huge weight difference between B239 and F2A-3. You acted like a moron right start and I treated you as one, as simple as that.[/b]
:rofl :rofl
the bait worked... :aok
Originally, I targeted the Brewster and did not even know of your existence. I only started targeting you because of you behavior in response to my original post 9 mo ago. You asked for it, and you continue to ask for it. Ask and you shall receive. I don't even care about the brewster, it sets you off, every time and it has become funny as you get so upset about nothing (a cartoon airplane in a game)
Tell me this, is joke about the Brewster an attack on you?
Are you a Brewster?
Or is it that anyone who doesn't share your passion for the Brewster not deserving a respect?
You acted like a moron right start and I treated you as one, as simple as that.
You're right, you don't deserve any respect and you continue to reinforce that opinion with your attitude.
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Gents,
The question is if the Brewster is easy mode...not its flight modeling. Again, I ask all of you...if two noobs, see below
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/DamonWayans-1.jpg)
are given one hour of the exact same flight instruction and one placed in a Spit 9 and the other placed in a Brewster...10K merge, who would win? I think the guy below (Quendi's the shade) would because that's how easy I see the Brewster:
(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/JimCarrey.jpg)
Its EZ EZ EZ to fly....its easy to shoot with and its EZ to get a kill with.
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:rofl :rofl
the bait worked... :aok
Originally, I targeted the Brewster and did not even know of your existence. I only started targeting you because of you behavior in response to my original post 9 mo ago. You asked for it, and you continue to ask for it. Ask and you shall receive. I don't even care about the brewster, it sets you off, every time and it has become funny as you get so upset about nothing (a cartoon airplane in a game)
Tell me this, is joke about the Brewster an attack on you?
Are you a Brewster?
Or is it that anyone who doesn't share your passion for the Brewster not deserving a respect?
Your right, you don't deserve any respect and you continue to reinforce that opinion with your attitude.
Seriously, brush up your reading comprehension. I suggest again, read both of our replies again with thought.
You really don't realize that it isn't about the Brewster per se. The "reputation" that the Brewster has gotten in this game is just a symptom of a much larger problem. If you simply don't want to grasp that it really doesn't help how many times I try to tell it to you.
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Seriously, brush up your reading comprehension. I suggest again, read both of our replies again with thought.
:rofl :rofl coming from a guy who resorts to personal insults as soon as possible... :rofl :rofl
have any more for me? come on... you can do better than that....
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I guess defending claims of utter BS (not only with the brewster but with any part of the game) with actual facts or data is regarded as personal insults nowadays.
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I guess defending claims of utter BS (not only with the brewster but with any part of the game) with actual facts or data is regarded as personal insults nowadays.
No one stated that wmaker doesn't state facts, but his facts get lost in a sea of personal attacks.
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I have to side with Wmaker on this one. I've seen him post data without any hostility only to have insults thrown back at him by ignorant people who can't grasp that the B-239 is not an F2A3. Heck, I've had my words about the B-239 intentionally misrepresented and thrown back at me by these people with their myth based agenda.
I maintain that the B-239 should never be used in scenarios with the Japanese, but it is perfectly appropriate to scenarios set in the Continuation War or any Main Arena. People have tried to use that consistent opinion as evidence that I think the B-239 is mismodeled and it means nothing of the sort to anybody who can grasp the simple fact that the B-239 is not at all the same as an F2A3.
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Is this Ardy123 guy real? Or just bad troll?
Nobody can be as stupid as his posts show.
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No one stated that wmaker doesn't state facts, but his facts get lost in a sea of personal attacks.
Show me where a "personal attack" was made in this thread by Wmaker where it wasn't warranted by someone already being a dick.
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Hey...while you guys are kicking the piss out of Ardy, can you just jot your answer down...won't take a minute. Im going to compile them and give Grizz a Venn enima...and I need your votes.
Thanks... :salute
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Hey...while you guys are kicking the piss out of Ardy, can you just jot your answer down...won't take a minute. Im going to compile them and give Grizz a Venn enima...and I need your votes.
Thanks... :salute
Too many undefined variables to just call any aircraft "EZ MODE". (how does one define EZ MODE anyways :headscratch:) Depends on pilot, other aircraft etc. In general, I would say the Brewster is a very forgiving aircraft and if flown properly can be tough to beat. But the same could be said for many other planes.
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Too many undefined variables to just call any aircraft "EZ MODE". (how does one define EZ MODE anyways :headscratch:) Depends on pilot, other aircraft etc. In general, I would say the Brewster is a very forgiving aircraft and if flown properly can be tough to beat. But the same could be said for many other planes.
Thank you. I think one would have to assume the variables that Grizz has used to define his Venn chart. I do not know what those are, lol. I just know that the Brewster is an EZ plane to fly and get a kill in. That said, using the only variables I set up, what say you?
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Show me where a "personal attack" was made in this thread by Wmaker where it wasn't warranted by someone already being a dick.
Clearly this has turned into a popularity contest....
All I'll say is that others have also experienced his behavior and have commented on it in this thread. I stand by what I have said....
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Clearly this has turned into a popularity contest....
All I'll say is that others have also experienced his behavior and have commented on it in this thread. I stand by what I have said....
Oh...I gotta +1 this...just read the first two pages of this thread and if you have ANY common sense at all, which Grizz does and showed the humor I was trying to accomplish, you'll get it. If you don't, you just love you some Wmaker...which is fine too, but you can't deny it cuz its there. :salute
Changeup
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Updated chart observations:
No way is the A6M3 easier than the B-239. A6M5b might be easier, but I am skeptical. The A6M3 and A6M5 are faster and climb better, in all other ways the B-239 is superior. Pretty much like comparing the Bf109K-4 to the Spitfire Mk IX. If you were being consistent, the Bf109K-4 would be rated as easier than the Spitfire Mk IX, but it isn't.
Spitfire Mk XIV is, at best, on par with the Bf109K-4. In practicality, I think the Bf109K-4 is a bit easier, but that is a close debate.
Ki-61 is, in no way, easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
Ki-61 is not easier than any F4U.
Ki-61 is not easier than the F6F-5.
Bf109G-6 is not easier than the Bf109F-4 or Bf109G-2.
The speed and acceleration of the Bf109G-14 make it significantly easier than the Bf109G-6.
P-38J and P-38L are significantly easier than either the Bf110G-2 (in an air-to-air capacity) or the Mosquito Mk VI.
The Mosquito Mk VI is harder to be successful in than either the Fw190A-5 or P-51B.
Typhoon's poor roll rate and spread guns make it noticeably harder than the F4U-1C.
The Spitfire Mk VIII's significant advantage in speed and acceleration/climb makes it noticeably superior to the Spitfire Mk IX.
I don't think the addition of 120 20mm rounds and naval equipment make the Seafire Mk II that much better than the Spitfire Mk V.
I'm no F4U expert, but the divergence you have for the F4U-1 and F4U-1A/F4U-1D doesn't match my limited time in them.
All good points, I believe. Especially those pertaining to the Ki61, in my opinion.
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All good points, I believe. Especially those pertaining to the Ki61, in my opinion.
DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!! You forgot to vote!! please...thank you
Changeup
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DAVE!!!!!!!!!!!! You forgot to vote!! please...thank you
My apologies.
To be honest, I have had next to zero experience flying the Brewster. But from a very small amount of experience in fighting against the Brewster, I would vote that the plane is not EZ mode due to lack of speed. A pilot can pretty much disengage from a Brewster at will, unless the Brewster was allowed a large E advantage in the beginning. And conversely, the Brewster cannot disengage from a fight unless the opponent allows it.
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My apologies.
To be honest, I have had next to zero experience flying the Brewster. But from a very small amount of experience in fighting against the Brewster, I would vote that the plane is not EZ mode due to lack of speed. A pilot can pretty much disengage from a Brewster at will, unless the Brewster was allowed a large E advantage in the beginning. And conversely, the Brewster cannot disengage from a fight unless the opponent allows it.
Ok...but if you or it engages, then what?
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My apologies.
To be honest, I have had next to zero experience flying the Brewster. But from a very small amount of experience in fighting against the Brewster, I would vote that the plane is not EZ mode due to lack of speed. A pilot can pretty much disengage from a Brewster at will, unless the Brewster was allowed a large E advantage in the beginning. And conversely, the Brewster cannot disengage from a fight unless the opponent allows it.
I don't think not being able to disengage plays too big of a part in whether a plane is easy mode or not.....that's just one factor and not a major one at that..its quite easy to dodge a BnZer attacks...and to kill them from an inferior position in a plane that "cant get away" I have over 7000 kills in A hurri2C...I know all about flying a plane that cant get away :aok
to find out if a plane is easy mode, just look at all the stats, if it does most things good its easy mode....IE spit 16..hell all spits minus the 14.....hurri2c...Brew......ki 84....109K4...(except the K4
s guns push it out of easy mode) it is very easy to "fly" extremely hard to "fight" and kill in....whereas the spits are easy to fly and easy to kill in, same with Hurri....
like someone else said though you need to have some kind of understanding of ACM to be able to fight period...a buddy wanted to try AH, I let him up offline :rofl I told him when he could fly through the hanger inverted I would let him try online......he couldnt even get the plane to fly in a straight line and crashed every time :rofl :rofl
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I don't think not being able to disengage plays too big of a part in whether a plane is easy mode or not.....that's just one factor and not a major one at that..its quite easy to dodge a BnZer attacks...and to kill them from an inferior position in a plane that "cant get away" I have over 7000 kills in A hurri2C...I know all about flying a plane that cant get away :aok
to find out if a plane is easy mode, just look at all the stats, if it does most things good its easy mode....IE spit 16..hell all spits minus the 14.....hurri2c...Brew......ki 84....109K4...(except the K4
s guns push it out of easy mode) it is very easy to "fly" extremely hard to "fight" and kill in....whereas the spits are easy to fly and easy to kill in, same with Hurri....
like someone else said though you need to have some kind of understanding of ACM to be able to fight period...a buddy wanted to try AH, I let him up offline :rofl I told him when he could fly through the hanger inverted I would let him try online......he couldnt even get the plane to fly in a straight line and crashed every time :rofl :rofl
Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story. In a furball, no matter what I see, if there's a Brew there I kill him first and based on what I hear on 200 every night, so does everyone else. That makes for poopy stats...
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Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story. In a furball, no matter what I see, if there's a Brew there I kill him first and based on what I hear on 200 every night, so does everyone else. That makes for poopy stats...
I generally go for the biggest threat, which due to how and what I fly, is rarely a B-239. On the deck, my plane of choice is ~76mph faster than the B-239.
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Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story. In a furball, no matter what I see, if there's a Brew there I kill him first and based on what I hear on 200 every night, so does everyone else. That makes for poopy stats...
I am not talking stats as K/D and what not, I am referring to the stats of the plane...climb rate....turn rate....ECT ECT
honestly I do not care what plane is there, like Karnak said, I go for the biggest threat to me..... :salute
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All good points, I believe. Especially those pertaining to the Ki61, in my opinion.
Agreed (can it be I agree with Karnak?), except for this: "P-38J and P-38L are significantly easier than either the Bf110G-2." I would rate them approximately equal in difficulty.
This is fun, good work Grizz.
- oldman
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I generally go for the biggest threat, which due to how and what I fly, is rarely a B-239. On the deck, my plane of choice is ~76mph faster than the B-239.
Mine isnt
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Mine isnt
What is your plane of choice, if I may ask?
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I am not talking stats as K/D and what not, I am referring to the stats of the plane...climb rate....turn rate....ECT ECT
honestly I do not care what plane is there, like Karnak said, I go for the biggest threat to me..... :salute
INK
I've been a good student in the KI and if the Brew is co alt or E, deck or altitude, it's a threa to you especially in a dive.
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What is your plane of choice, if I may ask?
Spit9. :devil :devil
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Ez mode compared to what?
Brew compared to zero no.
Brew compared to hurri no.
Brew compared to p51 heck no.
Only an idiot at the controls, that fights the brews fight, makes it ez mode. If a guy wants to turn fight a 51 against it it's not the brew that makes it ez it's the poor decisions of the 51 pilot.
It doesn't matter what plane you put a noob in against a better pilot brew vs spit. He is going to die.
The better pilot will see the weakness of the aircraft a pilot and act accordingly. ( weakness vs other plane )
A plane has no inherent weakness compared to itself, only to an other plane.
One of my favorite things to do ( in flew spit 9 a lot ) vs a brew is chop throttle turn inside brew first time and kill it. If I couldn't get guns I dive away a come back with e and use e and climb to my advantage once they stall out under you it's is just target practice.
Anyway < votes no on ez mode.
I like to take a hurri 1 up to turn fight a brew.
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Spit9. :devil :devil
Spit IX is a mere 40mph faster than the B239 on the deck. Same as my plane on MIL power.
EDIT:
It will be fun to see people's reactions to the Ki-43 when it is added. Only two 12.7mm guns, but turns better than the B239 and has fowler flaps like the Ki-84. It will also be faster and better climbing than the Brewster, particularly if we get the Ki-43-III.
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Spit IX is a mere 40mph faster than the B239 on the deck. Same as my plane on MIL power.
EDIT:
It will be fun to see people's reactions to the Ki-43 when it is added. Only two 12.7mm guns, but turns better than the B239 and has fowler flaps like the Ki-84. It will also be faster and better climbing than the Brewster, particularly if we get the Ki-43-III.
A "mere" 40 mph? That's a large speed discrepancy on the deck.
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A "mere" 40 mph? That's a large speed discrepancy on the deck.
Rather, isn't it.
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It will be fun to see people's reactions to the Ki-43 when it is added. Only two 12.7mm guns, but turns better than the B239 and has fowler flaps like the Ki-84. It will also be faster and better climbing than the Brewster, particularly if we get the Ki-43-III.
As a dedicated 202 enthusiast, I only point out that getting on someone's tail, and shooting him/her down, are two very different things. B239 has most excellent guns compared to the Oscar and 202.
- oldman
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As a dedicated 202 enthusiast, I only point out that getting on someone's tail, and shooting him/her down, are two very different things. B239 has most excellent guns compared to the Oscar and 202.
- oldman
I found the two 12.7mm guns on the Ki-84 to be perfectly adequate.. Not quite as good as US .50s, but not horribly far off either.
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I found the two 12.7mm guns on the Ki-84 to be perfectly adequate.. Not quite as good as US .50s, but not horribly far off either.
That's fine, there are 202 pilots who can consistently get cockpit hits with the two guns on that plane. My point was that in a B239 you have lots more firepower and don't have to be an Annie Oakley.
- oldman (Okay, Shifty, except for you, and only on Friday nights when you can dress the part)
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INK
I've been a good student in the KI and if the Brew is co alt or E, deck or altitude, it's a threa to you especially in a dive.
1vs1 a KI has no business losing to a brew, the speed and climb rate are to much for it....only brews that kill me(for the most part) are the ones with 5 friends...and even then I have had the pleasure of blowing them out of the sky with all there friends watching...and then having them call me a cheater.... :rofl :rofl :rofl
they just don't realize how much of a complement that is :t
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Only an idiot at the controls, that fights the brews fight, makes it ez mode.
...
I like to take a hurri 1 up to turn fight a brew.
Then im an idiot... thankies.
Btw a hurri1 NEVER can outturn the brew since its engine stops with negative Gs plus it takes a life to deploy the flaps.
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It retains some serious E, Packs a seriously strong lazer gun punch and out turns Zero's on the deck.
Yes. It is Easy Mode.
But... in my opinion there is no such thing as a noob plane.. simply noob pilots. Fight your fight.. not his.
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It retains some serious E, Packs a seriously strong lazer gun punch and out turns Zero's on the deck.
Yes. It is Easy Mode.
But... in my opinion there is no such thing as a noob plane.. simply noob pilots. Fight your fight.. not his.
And you fly it how often again? :D
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Heh. :)
...sometimes it really makes you wonder...
Sorry I havn't really played the last 5 1/2 months.....but when I checked before I left for Afghanistan there were tours where the Brew out scored the hurri 2c in K/D....
You are quick to be disrespectful...maybe a trait of your country, who knows. Last time I flew against you it was different though maybe you forgot....you getting spanked in your own plane make you hold a grudge?
:lol Ardy is completely right about you even if our facts are off :lol
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Ardy and me, are starting to get an ego complex we need you back. Quote=Midway " Muppets can't take the Pigs, they can't take them."
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Then im an idiot... thankies.
Btw a hurri1 NEVER can outturn the brew since its engine stops with negative Gs plus it takes a life to deploy the flaps.
It never can? You sure?
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You are quick to be disrespectful...maybe a trait of your country, who knows.
If you can't read and understand simple figures before posting about them....well, you totally deserved my reply. And if you didn't check them up in the first place before posting nonsense, even more so (you were talking about the last 6 months after all, not the last six 6 months you played). No need to act butt-hurt if you first post complete nonsense and then get called on it.
Last time I flew against you it was different though maybe you forgot....you getting spanked in your own plane make you hold a grudge?
Heh, I remember very well, eh well...actually I didn't remember the fights very well due to being so wasted but gladly I saved the films. :) They work as a good memory. :) You had a bit different tone last time we were talking about those fights. So what can I say? Your thoughts about events change along with your emotions? Not much to respect there. I guess I should post the films, they give a bit different view of the events than what you suggest, not that it matters one way or another.
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It never can? You sure?
From an equal situation, given about equal pilots, im sure.
Heck if im not sure i dont state anything like this.
You wanna try it out or what? : )
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were not equal pilots so it wouldn't work out like you say.
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uhoh... someones egos growing
Btw i still dont know what you want.
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Never said I'm better? I haven't played in a month so what's my post tell you.
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Three monhts of break here plus we both know who flies better.
I got you two times, you got me about 25 times. Yup i have no exuses.
Still, i have no idea how can your hurricane1 get a well-flown brewster.
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Pilot not the plane
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Pilot not the plane
Heh, this guy certainly has some entertainment value. :)
ACE, while you reduce my faith in humanity, you certainly can entertain. :)
(P.S. Google Fokker Eindecker)
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Pilot not the plane
Dude, you wanna provocate me? Wake up earlyer and soften up your ego. Youll be a better man.
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I think the EZ mode qualification is based on so many factors that you can put just about any plane out of it's comfort zone and its no longer easy mode. Is a Brewster EZ mode in a low slow furball, where everyone is low and slow? sure it is, that's it's best environment. But so is a zeke in that environment. Put the Brewster at high alt against p51's, K4's, 47m's, etc. and it's far from EZ mode, more likely EZ death. Is a Brewster a plane you could put a relatively new pilot in and they would have some success, yes it is, just like a spit 5 is. It's a plane that turns extremely well, takes punishment, with little as far as quirks. If you qualify an Easy mode plane as something you can put a relatively new pilot in with limited BFM/ACM skills, and they can have some success with it, then I would say yes it is EZ. But to qualify it as a plane that's good in any situation and always EZ, then deffinitly not.
:salute
BigRat
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I'm confused, debrodys mad and wmaker is making me google things :p
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Sorry, had to go to church this morning...so, where are we?
Is the Brew EZ mode or not?
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Sorry, had to go to church this morning...so, where are we?
Is the Brew EZ mode or not?
Well we know where HTC stands on its level of difficulty with a 30 ENY.
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Though the brewster is the turn champ, I would not consider it EZ mode.
EZ mode planes are some of the fastest planes in the planeset yet turn as if the sacrifices made to achieve great speed don't apply to them.
There aren't as many EZ mode planes as people claim.
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I'm confused, debrodys mad and wmaker is making me google things :p
Sorry ACE! You were replying to Debrody. Yes, you are correct that a better pilot flying a worse plane can shoot down not so good pilot flying a better plane.
But referring to my reply in the other thread, I still wish you'd google that Fokker. ;)
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Is the Brew EZ mode or not?
Well, the SBD eats them for lunch so it can't be that uber.
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Though the brewster is the turn champ, I would not consider it EZ mode.
EZ mode planes are some of the fastest planes in the planeset yet turn as if the sacrifices made to achieve great speed don't apply to them.
There aren't as many EZ mode planes as people claim.
So the K4 must be EZ mode?
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Well, the SBD eats them for lunch so it can't be that uber.
Put two pilots who have been piloting for 1 hour, one in SBD one in Brewster, who wins?
:neener: @ Changeup
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Well we know where HTC stands on its level of difficulty with a 30 ENY.
Is your chart about ENY or a subjective, experience-based ratings system? What is difficult about flying the Brew? I have stated why its easy so step your little self up the plate big'gun!!
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Well, the SBD eats them for lunch so it can't be that uber.
Quoted for FAIL....bring your SBD big shooter!! lmao!!!
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Is your chart about ENY or a subjective, experience-based ratings system? What is difficult about flying the Brew? I have stated why its easy so step your little self up the plate big'gun!!
It's not about Eny, but Eny is an indication at the very least the ballpark in which a plane's difficulty resides in. Is the Brewster truly a 30 eny ride? I'd say no, but it sure as heck isn't an EZ mode 5-8 ride, maybe 20-25 would be more adequate. Point is, Eny 30 shows HTC's opinion on its capability.
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It's not about Eny, but Eny is an indication at the very least the ballpark in which a plane's difficulty resides in. Is the Brewster truly a 30 eny ride? I'd say no, but it share as heck isn't an EZ mode 5-8 ride, maybe 20-25 would be more adequate. Point is, Eny 30 shows HTC's opinion on its capability.
Excellent...we are in agreement. The Spit 9 is a 20, therefore, using logic, the Brew is either EZ mode or the Spit 9 isn't...logically, based on your reasoning, it can't be neither. What say you?
I would add that ENY doesn't take into account EASE OF FLIGHT...ITS EASY TO FLY!!! :neener:
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Quoted for FAIL....bring your SBD big shooter!! lmao!!!
Speaking of FAIL, I already brought it....
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/4changeup.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/4changeup.ahf)
Better luck next time, maybe stylz has had time to practice his picks? OINK.
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Speaking of FAIL, I already brought it....
http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/4changeup.ahf (http://www.dasmuppets.com/public/Tec/4changeup.ahf)
Better luck next time, maybe stylz has had time to practice his picks? OINK.
Im flattered...grab your SBD bud we can test your theory...Im pretty sure I can dig up a video of a kill too...but excellent effort
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Sorry ACE! You were replying to Debrody. Yes, you are correct that a better pilot flying a worse plane can shoot down not so good pilot flying a better plane.
But referring to my reply in the other thread, I still wish you'd google that Fokker. ;)
Check your Pm's Sir. :aok
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Im flattered...grab your SBD bud we can test your theory...Im pretty sure I can dig up a video of a kill too...but excellent effort
That's far from scientific. Who would win with 1 hr of stick time, an SBD or a Brewster?
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Who would win with 1 hr of stick time, an SBD or a Brewster?
the terrain
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the terrain
I agree, but ChangeUp was proposing the same experiment with the Brewster and Spit9, to somehow prove the Brewster is better. So the shoe is on the other foot now.
:neener: @ ChangeUp.
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Excellent...we are in agreement. The Spit 9 is a 20, therefore, using logic, the Brew is either EZ mode or the Spit 9 isn't...logically, based on your reasoning, it can't be neither. What say you?
I would add that ENY doesn't take into account EASE OF FLIGHT...ITS EASY TO FLY!!! :neener:
I am still waiting...lets not move on to the SBD v Brew until we get this little piece wrapped up...stay focused, :neener:
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Excellent...we are in agreement. The Spit 9 is a 20, therefore, using logic, the Brew is either EZ mode or the Spit 9 isn't...logically, based on your reasoning, it can't be neither. What say you?
I would add that ENY doesn't take into account EASE OF FLIGHT...ITS EASY TO FLY!!! :neener:
You know what the Spit9 says to me? It says: "I really like spitfires but the Spit16 just doesn't have enough turning ability, so I'm going to sacrifice some speed for a plane that turns better!"
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You know what the Spit9 says to me? It says: "I really like spitfires but the Spit16 just doesn't have enough turning ability, so I'm going to sacrifice some speed for a plane that turns better!"
You know what that answer says to me? "Changeup is right and I am wrong...Changeup is smart, and I am dumb, Changeup is handsome and I am ugly, Changeup stays focused while I tend to drift, Changeup argues the merits of the argument, I commit argumentum ad hominem." :neener: :neener: :neener:
Now, lol, what say you???
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That's far from scientific. Who would win with 1 hr of stick time, an SBD or a Brewster?
If the two pilots are still fully in the mindset of roll it on its side and pull back on the stick until you have the enemy in your gunsight, I think the SBD-5 would win. If, in particular, the B239 pilot has advanced beyond that, then the B239 would win.
The same is true in matchups against the B239 as well, where (other than the A6M2) the B239 holds the place the SBD-5 does in that scenario and the other plane wins if it takes the fight vertical or uses speed. The I-16 and Hurricane Mk I may be exempt from this.
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Wasnt the B-239 considered "easy" in actual practice too? Wasnt that considered its greatest strength ? When it was fitted out for FAF service wasnt it described, by very good pilots, as "wonderful to fly". It was a custom fit for where it ended up and how it was used. Simple, with no real weakness, even its lack of HP/speed didnt matter against the planes it was up against? It reminds me of an early war F6F-5 only much lighter and far more nimble while still being tough. Simpler and easier to maintain, while being almost as well armed. A sound design, flown by very good pilots. A different bird then the one the USN loaded weight on.
Is this not reflected in our 239?
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Wasnt the B-239 considered "easy" in actual practice too? Wasnt that considered its greatest strength ? When it was fitted out for FAF service wasnt it described, by very good pilots, as "wonderful to fly". It was a custom fit for where it ended up and how it was used. Simple, with no real weakness, even its lack of HP/speed didnt matter against the planes it was up against? It reminds me of an early war F6F-5 only much lighter and far more nimble while still being tough. Simpler and easier to maintain, while being almost as well armed. A sound design, flown by very good pilots. A different bird then the one the USN loaded weight on.
Is this not reflected in our 239?
Most newer cartoon pilots are often ham-fisted on the controls. This being said, one can take the brewser or a spit5 and pull back faster/harder at slower speeds without risking a wingtip stall than say a fw190-a8. I would think this in itself would make a ride more easy mode.
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I'll fly a spit nine against any brew pilot in the game. I bet I can ho the brew and win 9 times out of ten.....
That proves the spit is easy mode, according to most posts :bhead :bheadhere.
I'll fly a brew against any spit in the game, if you turn with me I'll win 10 out of ten.
That proves brew ez mode... : :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Btw a hurri1 NEVER can outturn the brew since its engine stops with negative Gs plus it takes a life to deploy the flaps.
Who flies it with neg g's??
What does neg g,s have to do with turn performance? Other than hurt it. :headscratch:
I can see you not out turning anything if you use neg g,s..
Why would the brew not be dead before you ever need to deploy flaps?
You just listed the to worst things you can do in the hurri1. Of course you would not be able to out turn a fly.
Anyway your argument is begging the question. ( circular ) with flaps down and neg g's you can't out turn your own argument. :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Most newer cartoon pilots are often ham-fisted on the controls. This being said, one can take the brewser or a spit5 and pull back faster/harder at slower speeds without risking a wingtip stall than say a fw190-a8. I would think this in itself would make a ride more easy mode.
That is a rather useless definition of "easy mode" though. Traits that enable clueless newbies to have a chance in an aircraft are often of marginal, if any, value to an expert. I think an "easy mode" definition as it applies to an average pilot is more useful than one as applies to a rank newbie pilot.
Using your specific example, the D3A1 and SBD-5 are both easier mode than the B239 and Spitfire Mk V.
I'll repeat my earlier assertion, people who insist on matching "turns well" with "easy mode" inevitably fly fast aircraft that don't turn that well and want to talk up their own skill while denigrating others. It has little to do with "easy mode" and much to do with "Look how good I am!"
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What flight/handling characteristics do you attribute to an 'easy mode ride' for the average MA player (pls don't say easy to get kills in, that's not a flight handling characteristic)?
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Fast good climb one shot one kill is ez mode ardy. Decent roll rate aswell
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Fast good climb one shot one kill is ez mode ardy. Decent roll rate aswell
:rofl how about elliptically shaped wings and great turn radius with amazing hispano cannons? :neener:
Ok, not going to start a muppet/few fun fest, the question was for Karnak.
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Oh I was being legit about it guess you wasn't..
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I fly mostly German, as the squad I'm in flys mostly spits. I have done MANY duals with mickyd while he spit5 and me 109f and we went 50/50. Did 109g2/6 against spit 8, 50/50 again. Now the thing is I say me and mickyd are very close to eachother skill wise, if not he is better. Now this talk about spits being easy and 109's being SO difficult is plane dumb. Both planes have there advantages it's whether u can use them in a fight to win.
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I love you more than I used to after that post jo. It makes perfect sense but there will be excuses as to why spits are easier :)
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I love you more than I used to after that post jo. It makes perfect sense but there will be excuses as to why spits are easier :)
"I'm on one" :cool:
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:banana:
Just sayin'
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Dude have you heard that lil scrappy mixtape?
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The ace jochimp love affair continues...
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The ace jochimp love affair continues...
forever and ever :D :PDude have you heard that lil scrappy mixtape?
Downloaded it, haven't listened to it.
Download Tyler the creater and ofwgkta they are awsome
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Alright brah. I'm not that big of a fan of scrappy. But ii think this one has some potential. I'm waiting on the Carter 4 :D
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What flight/handling characteristics do you attribute to an 'easy mode ride' for the average MA player (pls don't say easy to get kills in, that's not a flight handling characteristic)?
Single most important feature is acceleration/climb. That allows the pilot to mess up and recover his energy where a lesser plane would not. Obviously there are other things as well, speed is the single easiest defensive trait to use, turning the easiest offensive trait. Hispanos are easier to hit with the MG/FF or Type 99 Model 1 cannons, center mounted guns are better than wing mounted guns. Good roll rate, flap effectiveness and speed at which they can be deployed matter. Visibility from the cockpit and view over the nose. How speed and altitude affect the aircraft's maneuverability is a hard to chart factor Durability is another factor. All of this ties together is a manner no chart will be able to show accurately. Much of it will be of very subjective value and that means that agreement is unlikely to ever really happen.
The Spitfire Mk XVI is an easy to use fighter, very good acceleration and only really poor on durability. The B239 is a mixed bag, being very strong in some areas and quite weak in others. The Bf109K-4 is easy to survive in, but harder to get kills with, though not as hard as some pretend. The Mosquito Mk VI is moderately challenging to stay alive in, but reasonably easy to get kills in.
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Single most important feature is acceleration/climb. That allows the pilot to mess up and recover his energy where a lesser plane would not. Obviously there are other things as well, speed is the single easiest defensive trait to use, turning the easiest offensive trait. Hispanos are easier to hit with the MG/FF or Type 99 Model 1 cannons, center mounted guns are better than wing mounted guns. Good roll rate, flap effectiveness and speed at which they can be deployed matter. Visibility from the cockpit and view over the nose. How speed and altitude affect the aircraft's maneuverability is a hard to chart factor Durability is another factor. All of this ties together is a manner no chart will be able to show accurately. Much of it will be of very subjective value and that means that agreement is unlikely to ever really happen.
The Spitfire Mk XVI is an easy to use fighter, very good acceleration and only really poor on durability. The B239 is a mixed bag, being very strong in some areas and quite weak in others. The Bf109K-4 is easy to survive in, but harder to get kills with, though not as hard as some pretend. The Mosquito Mk VI is moderately challenging to stay alive in, but reasonably easy to get kills in.
What about slow speed handling?
For example while the p38s and the 109s are both good climbers a p38 can often inch out a wee bit more alt and win a rope because its counter rotating props allow for it to have much less adverse slow speed handling issues due to torque. That wee bit of alt is the difference between winning and losing.
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Who flies it with neg g's??
What does neg g,s have to do with turn performance? Other than hurt it. :headscratch:
I can see you not out turning anything if you use neg g,s..
Why would the brew not be dead before you ever need to deploy flaps?
You just listed the to worst things you can do in the hurri1. Of course you would not be able to out turn a fly.
Anyway your argument is begging the question. ( circular ) with flaps down and neg g's you can't out turn your own argument. :rofl :rofl :rofl
lol Mr Trollio, lets give it a chance. You in the hurri, me in the brew, look for me from 1st of September. Dont wonder if you may hang on your chute before you even think about opening your flappies : )
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loosing.
Grizz!!!!!!! :bhead
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Grizz!!!!!!! :bhead
sh** not again... fixed :aok
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Grizz!!!!!!! :bhead
Ardy...you just leaped Yenny as the #1 most bootable Muppet.
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Ardy...you just leaped Yenny as the #1 most bootable Muppet.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Ardy...you just leaped Yenny as the #1 most bootable Muppet.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I've been reading this thread out of amusement,ezmode this,ezmode that... I meet many new players as a trainer and the most difficult thing most new players face is a simple landing,your kills dont mean much if you cant land the plane.
When asked "how do I land" I usually tell the new player to up a P38,not because it's easy to fly but because it's easy to land.I'll tell them to make 3 successful landings in the p38{in a row} then move them to a P39.Why you might ask,well because both have tricycle gear and are easier to land than a taildragger and the P38 has no torque but the P39 does so it's a wee bit more difficult to land than the 38. After the new player has done his 6 landings I ask whats their favourite plane and to go ahead and try to land it,this is usually done relatively easy after the practice,so I then direct them into any corsair.
This is when I have alittle fun at their expense,after they groundloop the corsair afew time and ask what am I doing wrong I tell them how to lock the tail wheel,how to use throttle to control descent..etc. And remind them the corsair was called the Ensign Elliminator.
So if you ask me what plane is ezmode,I'll tell you it depends! Now depends,they're ezmode,you dont even have to flush!
:salute
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I've been reading this thread out of amusement,ezmode this,ezmode that... I meet many new players as a trainer and the most difficult thing most new players face is a simple landing,your kills dont mean much if you cant land the plane.
When asked "how do I land" I usually tell the new player to up a P38,not because it's easy to fly but because it's easy to land.I'll tell them to make 3 successful landings in the p38{in a row} then move them to a P39.Why you might ask,well because both have tricycle gear and are easier to land than a taildragger and the P38 has no torque but the P39 does so it's a wee bit more difficult to land than the 38. After the new player has done his 6 landings I ask whats their favourite plane and to go ahead and try to land it,this is usually done relatively easy after the practice,so I then direct them into any corsair.
This is when I have alittle fun at their expense,after they groundloop the corsair afew time and ask what am I doing wrong I tell them how to lock the tail wheel,how to use throttle to control descent..etc. And remind them the corsair was called the Ensign Elliminator.
So if you ask me what plane is ezmode,I'll tell you it depends! Now depends,they're ezmode,you dont even have to flush!
:salute
I refer you to Dicta Juggler Rule #9:
#9- Never berate noobs for shabby gameplay, Always berate vets for shabby gameplay
If Juggler allows it, I would also think that this applies to plane choice.
9a. Never berate a noob for shabby plane choice, only berate vets for shabby plane choice.
:devil
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I refer you to Dicta Juggler Rule #9:
#9- Never berate noobs for shabby gameplay, Always berate vets for shabby gameplay
If Juggler allows it, I would also think that this applies to plane choice.
9a. Never berate a noob for shabby plane choice, only berate vets for shabby plane choice.
:devil
Well, a 262 and 109k can be almost untouchable, flown to their strengths. :aok You're batting .500 here. :neener:
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Well, a 262 and 109k can be almost untouchable, flown to their strengths. :aok You're batting .500 here. :neener:
so is an LA7..p51....P38...KI-84...spit 16...spit 8...spit9.....hurri2c....and just about every other plane in the hanger
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Well, a 262 and 109k can be almost untouchable, flown to their strengths. :aok You're batting .500 here. :neener:
I disagree, they all have their weaknesses and its all very situationally dependent.
For example....
anyone can kill a 262 when it is landing or still taking off, they take a long time to get 'up to speed'.
a k4 isn't faster than an La7 at most AH gameplay alts.
Even Grizz doesn't have a perfect k/d ratio, he dies too...
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Well, a 262 and 109k can be almost untouchable, flown to their strengths. :aok You're batting .500 here. :neener:
Only way they are untouchable is if you don't fly aggressive in them. I fly like a love muffin in the 262, always throwing caution to the wind for a kill shot. K4, same thing.
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hey hey.. don't confuse 9a with 9b now.
:aok
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Ok its safe to say that the people that think the K4 is hard to fly or ez mode are in denial
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Ok its safe to say that the people that think the K4 is hard to fly or ez mode are in denial
while these comparisons are entertaining and graphically displaying them interesting... I think we all have a fairly decent idea of the planes' (assuming you've taken the time to fly them all) relative performances.
There are just too many variables to try and actualy quantify the unquantifiable. Ya know, on any given sunday... :ahand
Here's an easier spin on EZ vs Challenging... if it's a ride you're having fun with, it's EZ, if not, it's Challenging. :aok
<tips hat to the nanny feelgood bunny corkyjr> :bolt:
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while these comparisons are entertaining and graphically displaying them interesting... I think we all have a fairly decent idea of the planes' (assuming you've taken the time to fly them all) relative performances.
There are just too many variables to try and actualy quantify the unquantifiable. Ya know, on any given sunday... :ahand
Here's an easier spin on EZ vs Challenging... if it's a ride you're having fun with, it's EZ, if not, it's Challenging. :aok
<tips hat to the nanny feelgood bunny corkyjr> :bolt:
Ahh but you speak the truth :)
It just can't be this much work can it? :huh
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Someone asked someone about a lil Scrappy mixtape in this thread.......Thread Fail
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Someone asked someone about a lil Scrappy mixtape in this thread.......Thread Fail
:rofl
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You listend to it yet jo?
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You listend to it yet jo?
Why should he? Lil Scrappy is hot garbage....
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yeah he is imo. Wiz <3
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yeah he is imo. Wiz <3
Wiz khalifa? Now we are talkin'
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Yesss I love his music for many reasons but one stands out the most.
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Please, Tyler the creater and the rest of ofwgkta is by far top
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TGOD!