Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Nypsy on August 18, 2011, 08:55:52 PM

Title: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Nypsy on August 18, 2011, 08:55:52 PM
From Jones Beach 2009, for those who have not seen it...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1ywUmBpVGY&feature=related
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Seanaldinho on August 18, 2011, 09:40:33 PM
Very nice  :aok

I'll have to try that in the sailplane  :devil
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 18, 2011, 10:08:32 PM
Close to the barrier but not breaking it.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MaSonZ on August 18, 2011, 10:26:46 PM
Close to the barrier but not breaking it.
? there was the ever fmaous cloud and the sonic boom.. what else is needed?
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 18, 2011, 10:34:34 PM
Rogwar is right, that was not the sound barrier. If it was you'd be able to hear him ~40 miles away, and a lot of people would be very unhappy.


? there was the ever fmaous cloud and the sonic boom.. what else is needed?

The cloud was only there because the humidity was high enough, if he was going supersonic the cloud would have been a lot bigger.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MaSonZ on August 18, 2011, 10:37:58 PM
but Mach, remember, it was a video camera, not a Hollywood movie camera. im sure it wouldnt be that sensitive to sound. in reality there on the beach they may have heard it that far out, but we all know how video cameras are with sound...
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 18, 2011, 10:39:36 PM
but Mach, remember, it was a video camera, not a Hollywood movie camera. im sure it wouldnt be that sensitive to sound. in reality there on the beach they may have heard it that far out, but we all know how video cameras are with sound...

In the description it says this happened on Jones Beach On May 24th, 2009, I was there.

I don't know this for a fact but I think you actually need special permission (or an emergency) to be allowed to break to sound barrier of the US mainland because a lot of people will be pissed off. Sometimes you can hear it in the desert around Nevada Arizona area away from all the cites, but I don't think they do it at airshows (at least I have never heard it on an airshow). On 2nd thoughts maybe they do them at airshows on remote bases (such as Edwards AFB), but I have not been on many around here yet.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 18, 2011, 10:42:56 PM
BTW since were on topic:

(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/demotivational-posters-egg-clouds.jpg)
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: APDrone on August 18, 2011, 10:56:16 PM
BTW since were on topic:

(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/demotivational-posters-egg-clouds.jpg)

And B1s...

From Milwaukee 2 weeks ago..

(http://www.ka4zzq.com/Mongrels/Youth_WI_D5_Beach_B1_1.jpg)

(http://www.ka4zzq.com/Mongrels/Youth_WI_D5_Beach_B1_4.jpg)
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MaSonZ on August 18, 2011, 10:59:03 PM
how much pressure do the ariframes undergo when they break the sound barrier? must be immense..
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: RTR on August 18, 2011, 11:34:22 PM
11 years and countless times hearing it.

That Hornet Did not Break the sound barrier. For one, it is illegal to do that at that altitude and in that setting and for two, had it gone supersonic it would have been much much louder. Of that I am 100% sure.

What you saw was water vapor and vortices off the wings and fuselage. sorry but no "whoo hoo there".

He was very fast though, just not supersonic.

RTR
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 18, 2011, 11:47:06 PM
it is illegal to do that at that altitude and in that setting

I'm more than sure that your right about that but I been looking for something that officially states that and I can't find it. Do you know anything that specifically says that?
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: RTR on August 18, 2011, 11:51:12 PM
well If I was an American I would star with FARS.

As a Canadian I coud find it in CARS.

These are civilian regulations, but you will find that the military regs parrot the civilian regs almost verbatim in domestic airspace in peacetime.

Just a hunch from an active aviation dude and a retired RCAF dude.

Oh, and breaking the sound barrier at that altitude...breaks windows. The Canadian Government bought alot of windows one summer in Holland. <G>

cheers,

RTR
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 18, 2011, 11:59:52 PM
well If I was an American I would star with FARS.

As a Canadian I coud find it in CARS.

These are civilian regulations, but you will find that the military regs parrot the civilian regs almost verbatim in domestic airspace in peacetime.

Just a hunch from an active aviation dude and a retired RCAF dude.

Oh, and breaking the sound barrier at that altitude...breaks windows. The Canadian Government bought alot of windows one summer in Holland. <G>

cheers,

RTR

I never seen it in the FAR, and if any place will have it it should defiantly be the FAR. I'll do some more searching for it online, might find something. Might have more luck.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Raphael on August 19, 2011, 12:02:48 AM
OH MY GOD
OH MY GOD
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PFactorDave on August 19, 2011, 12:03:12 AM
I never seen it in the FAR, and if any place will have it it should defiantly be the FAR. I'll do some more searching for it online, might find something. Might have more luck.

It may not be a FAR.  The FARs are regulations, not laws.  Somewhat different.  There may actually be a law prohibiting it, rather then a regulation.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: SAJ73 on August 19, 2011, 12:08:39 AM
I remember back in some time around 87-89 in Norway, there was a plane going supersonic. Illegaly I might add, because it was all over the news and nobody knew what it was.. It might very well be one of your US planes for all I know, or some russian.. Or just one crazy Norwegian pilot kicking it off in his F16 or whatever they had back then..
Anyway, that boom was heard over half of Norway. Guess Norway is small, but also I believe the boom travelled with that aircraft over some distance?! It sounded like a ton of TNT went off in one of the surrounding hills, or like thunder right above the house.. It was really loud!

So if THAT was a sonic boom, that's what they said on the news anyway.. Then this flight on the beach is merely a fart in the wind..  :noid
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MachFly on August 19, 2011, 12:20:20 AM
Found it:

§ 91.817 — Civil aircraft sonic boom.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in the United States at a true flight Mach number greater than 1 except in compliance with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued to the operator under appendix B of this part.

(b) In addition, no person may operate a civil aircraft for which the maximum operating limit speed MM0exceeds a Mach number of 1, to or from an airport in the United States, unless—

(1) Information available to the flight crew includes flight limitations that ensure that flights entering or leaving the United States will not cause a sonic boom to reach the surface within the United States; and

(2) The operator complies with the flight limitations prescribed in paragraph (b)(1) of this section or complies with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued under appendix B of this part.


Anyone know where I'd find something like this for military aircraft?
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MiloMorai on August 19, 2011, 07:29:34 AM
Ottawa International Airport

The terminal building was originally scheduled to open in 1959, but during practices for the opening ceremonies, a United States Air Force F-104 Starfighter accidentally went supersonic during a low pass over the airport, and the resultant sonic boom shattered most of the glass in the airport (including the entire north wall) and damaged ceiling tiles, door and window frames, and even structural beams. As a result, the opening was delayed until April 1960.

I remember that day in Ottawa. I was ~3.5mi from the terminal and thought a bomb had gone off.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Dragon on August 19, 2011, 07:57:02 AM
Back in the early 80's, 2 jets left Hopkins Intl Airport. 1 of the planes stayed low but the 2nd one went vertical directly above us.  It went supersonic about 15 seconds later.  I'm not sure what his altitude would have been by then, but the boom was heard throughout northern Ohio.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: bcadoo on August 19, 2011, 09:30:39 AM
Found it:

§ 91.817 — Civil aircraft sonic boom.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft in the United States at a true flight Mach number greater than 1 except in compliance with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued to the operator under appendix B of this part.

(b) In addition, no person may operate a civil aircraft for which the maximum operating limit speed MM0exceeds a Mach number of 1, to or from an airport in the United States, unless—

(1) Information available to the flight crew includes flight limitations that ensure that flights entering or leaving the United States will not cause a sonic boom to reach the surface within the United States; and

(2) The operator complies with the flight limitations prescribed in paragraph (b)(1) of this section or complies with conditions and limitations in an authorization to exceed Mach 1 issued under appendix B of this part.


Anyone know where I'd find something like this for military aircraft?

In Plain English:

§ 91.817 — Civil aircraft sonic boom.
(a)You can't fly supersonic EXCEPT (b)(1) Sonic boom can't reach ground OR (2) you get permission to go supersonic.

So under that reasoning....he could have gone supersonic....if he had obtained authorization first.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: RTR on August 19, 2011, 11:05:26 AM
I'm pretty sure you would not get permission to go supersonic for an airshow. There would have to be some kind military requirement pressing to circumvent the regs. You would need access to the appropriate military regs for state aircraft operation in civil airspace.

At any rate, believe what you wish, It really makes no difference to me.

cheers,
RTR
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 19, 2011, 11:53:12 AM
This may not be exactly current but is likely pretty close...

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0060b.shtml


And this is flying faster than Mach 1...a lot different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5oomvIxE3I&feature=player_embedded

Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: tmetal on August 19, 2011, 02:51:29 PM
A video of the concord breaking the sound barrier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=annkM6z1-FE&feature=related

If the boom was that loud on the ground when the plane was high enough to be leaving visable water vapor trails, there is no way that f18 was breaking the sound barrier and the boom be that quiet. BTW the concord video looks to be filmed with a hand held camera that was probably older and not as advanced as the camera for the f18 vid, when you consider how long the concords have not been flying.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MiloMorai on August 19, 2011, 04:04:21 PM
And this is flying faster than Mach 1...a lot different.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5oomvIxE3I&feature=player_embedded


Engine exhaust noise is not breaking the sound barrier.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Babalonian on August 19, 2011, 06:35:11 PM
Close to the barrier but not breaking it.

Yup.  But by all means head to an air show sometime nearby that features a Super Hornet or Strike Eagle demonstrations and experience the same near-sonic demonstrations for yourself sometime.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Babalonian on August 19, 2011, 06:36:01 PM
BTW since were on topic:

(http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/demotivational-posters-egg-clouds.jpg)

Best demontivational poster - ever!
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: saggs on August 19, 2011, 11:47:03 PM
A video of the concord breaking the sound barrier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=annkM6z1-FE&feature=related

If the boom was that loud on the ground when the plane was high enough to be leaving visable water vapor trails, there is no way that f18 was breaking the sound barrier and the boom be that quiet. BTW the concord video looks to be filmed with a hand held camera that was probably older and not as advanced as the camera for the f18 vid, when you consider how long the concords have not been flying.

I agree that F-18 was not supersonic.  But remember that a boom from an F-18 at the altitude of that Concorde would not be nearly as loud.

Smaller plane = smaller shock waves = smaller boom boom.  :airplane:

Growing up I used to hear booms from F-16s out of Hill AFB heading to the west desert bomb range quite often, used to rattle the windows and shake pictures on the wall but caused no damage that I know of.  Haven't heard one for probably 15 years though, I think about then they started cracking down on the behavior.  Never bothered me though, I thought it was pretty cool.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PFactorDave on August 19, 2011, 11:50:22 PM
Ottawa International Airport

The terminal building was originally scheduled to open in 1959, but during practices for the opening ceremonies, a United States Air Force F-104 Starfighter accidentally went supersonic during a low pass over the airport, and the resultant sonic boom shattered most of the glass in the airport (including the entire north wall) and damaged ceiling tiles, door and window frames, and even structural beams. As a result, the opening was delayed until April 1960.

I remember that day in Ottawa. I was ~3.5mi from the terminal and thought a bomb had gone off.

 :rofl

I've known and been friends with a lot of military pilots in my lifetime...  And I'm pretty darn sure that just about all of them would light the afterburners and go supersonic if they thought they could get away with it...

Accidentally!  :rofl
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 20, 2011, 08:07:59 AM
Engine exhaust noise is not breaking the sound barrier.

Of course not.

But that particular video is of an F18 flying faster than the speed of sound way out in the ocean somewhere. Here is one of an F14 probably shot on a tiger cruise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igy_MYJpVcQ&feature=related
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: STXAce8 on August 20, 2011, 09:39:56 AM
And B1s...

From Milwaukee 2 weeks ago..

(http://www.ka4zzq.com/Mongrels/Youth_WI_D5_Beach_B1_1.jpg)

(http://www.ka4zzq.com/Mongrels/Youth_WI_D5_Beach_B1_4.jpg)
Hey was that the first or second day, I saw it the first day and I didn't see the coud.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Dragon on August 20, 2011, 12:56:14 PM
Not posting to prove or disprove anything, just fun to watch and listen to the multiple sonic booms.

Mythbusters  :aok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtAElaDVz8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtAElaDVz8)




 :O
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: MiloMorai on August 20, 2011, 01:29:52 PM
Of course not.

But that particular video is of an F18 flying faster than the speed of sound way out in the ocean somewhere. Here is one of an F14 probably shot on a tiger cruise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igy_MYJpVcQ&feature=related

Just more engine noise.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: APDrone on August 20, 2011, 01:58:54 PM
Hey was that the first or second day, I saw it the first day and I didn't see the coud.

It was Friday during their practice runs..   

Was in town finishing up a week long mission trip with youth from our church, so we got a 'bonus' when we visited the beach that day..
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 20, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
Just more engine noise.

 :lol
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 20, 2011, 07:51:25 PM
High-subsonic air pressure effects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWGLAAYdbbc
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 20, 2011, 07:55:22 PM
Mythbusters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtAElaDVz8&feature=related
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 20, 2011, 10:07:52 PM
Mythbusters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvtAElaDVz8&feature=related

Just engine noise.

 :rofl
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 21, 2011, 11:27:48 AM
I've never seen engine noise blow in a window before. Strange that the USN didn't tell the Mythbusters they weren't flying supersonic when that's what they asked for.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: rogwar on August 21, 2011, 11:52:11 AM
I've never seen engine noise blow in a window before. Strange that the USN didn't tell the Mythbusters they weren't flying supersonic when that's what they asked for.

I know. Was just making a joke in relation to a previous post.
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on August 22, 2011, 05:08:52 PM
Thought so  :)
Title: Re: F-18 breaks the sound barrier.
Post by: Shuffler on August 22, 2011, 05:34:59 PM
lol not breaking sound barrier at all.

That is just vapors then the jet exhaust gets louder as it passed and your on the receiving end.