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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: wil3ur on August 19, 2011, 09:04:21 PM

Title: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 19, 2011, 09:04:21 PM
OK... to start off before anyone says wrong room, this isn't a 'wish list' posting, but an area to discuss a possible enhancement we may wish would happen... so Nyah!

I've put this forth in a previous post, but I think it may deserve it's own thread since I see the same thread popping up again and again in regards to CV's.

My thoughts would be to have support fleets for CV's, much like the trucks that run to bases to resupply these.  These would be needed to maintain operations and also work towards rebuilding a damaged fleet.  Basically, the support fleet leaves the port of call and makes a B-Line for it's fleet (following water of course).  The cons of this become immediately apparent...  The farther away from port you get, the longer resupply will take, and the greater chance for interception (DUH?!?!).

This adds two great aspects to the game...  You now have the ability to utilize attack craft for one of their main purposes, attacking soft targets, especially trains and convoys, and also would correct the issue of hiding carriers.

Carriers would have a 'bleed' set on their resources based on an over time equation.  Over time would be used because if were based on planes or anything realistic people would be really really mad...  But basically, this bleed on effectiveness (Droptanks are disabled...  Ordinance is disabled) would make the use of a carrier under assault a much harder task.  In addition, the CV would always require supplies, so convoys would always need to be sent.  If the carrier is hidden, supply convoys could be tracked.  If the base is under enemy control, the convoys cease, and the carrier becomes nearly useless (25% fuel no ord fighters only?).

This would also add the use of scout planes, particularly PBY's which I'd love to see in game to the overall aspect of gameplay while not removing anything from anybody.  I see this is a 'win win'.  I'd love to hear any suggestions or thoughts in regards to /this/ topic...

(http://www.dornier-wal.com/02254_PBY5_Y-45_ROSE_BAY.jpg)
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Delirium on August 19, 2011, 09:40:26 PM
In addition, the CV would always require supplies, so convoys would always need to be sent.  If the carrier is hidden, supply convoys could be tracked. 

Agreed and way ahead of you on that one.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,307733.0.html

If they could flesh out the strategic war it would give bomber guys something to do (besides hit FH), give the war winning guys something to do (besides run NOE mission and bail at the first sign of trouble), and tie in the furballers with the war winners for the first time ever.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 20, 2011, 11:33:11 AM
Man... reading that thread I still don't see any reason why something like this shouldn't be implemented.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Changeup on August 20, 2011, 11:35:30 AM
Agreed and way ahead of you on that one.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,307733.0.html

If they could flesh out the strategic war it would give bomber guys something to do (besides hit FH), give the war winning guys something to do (besides run NOE mission and bail at the first sign of trouble), and tie in the furballers with the war winners for the first time ever.

Wow...this might really work.  Nice fellas...I still get to furball with JUGgler and everyone else gets to do what they want all to a strategic end.  So, let me get this straight...everyone wins on this?  That cannot be...there must be a problem with this.   Soooo........

(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/buttons.jpg)
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 20, 2011, 11:52:42 AM
Wow...this might really work.  Nice fellas...I still get to furball with JUGgler and everyone else gets to do what they want all to a strategic end.  So, let me get this straight...everyone wins on this?  That cannot be...there must be a problem with this.   Soooo........

(http://i909.photobucket.com/albums/ac300/Changeup1/buttons.jpg)

I practiced my Jedi Mind Tricks for a good 5 minutes on that button.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: IrishOne on August 20, 2011, 12:24:54 PM
I practiced my Jedi Mind Tricks for a good 5 minutes on that button.

 :lol     
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: mipoikel on August 21, 2011, 05:16:52 AM
+1 for idea.  :aok
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: ozrocker on August 21, 2011, 08:37:59 AM
I practiced my Jedi Mind Tricks for a good 5 minutes on that button.
:aok That's what I was fixed on! If you stare long enough,
you can almost visualize chest heaving from breathing :D

+1 on idea, sounds like it would add a lot to game.

                                                                                                                                    :cheers: Oz
                                                                                                                                 

                               
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Shuffler on August 22, 2011, 01:40:31 PM
I have read this idea and approve of it's inception.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Rich52 on August 22, 2011, 02:05:15 PM
As much as I love and admire the PBY Catalina do you really see anyone in the game tooling along at 190 mph, climb rate of 1,000' per min, looking for CVs ?
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: G0ALY on August 22, 2011, 02:11:39 PM
As much as I love and admire the PBY Catalina do you really see anyone in the game tooling along at 190 mph, climb rate of 1,000' per min, looking for CVs ?

Give seaplanes the ability to up at ports that do not have an airstrip (As long as the VH had not been destroyed.)… Arm them with torpedoes, bombs,  And dare I dream… MINES!

Then yes, you would see a lot of players tooling around in them.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Rich52 on August 22, 2011, 02:28:50 PM
The conditions that made the PBY a success in the war are not present in the game. We dont have a vast pacific, most of it out of enemy fighter range. We dont have downed pilots, "and who would fly 2 hours to save one anyway"? We dont have night attacks on enemy convoys. Dont have submarines. All we have are CVs to bomb, and the PBY is so poorly defended it would be dead meat before it even got close to the CV. Players might upp a PBY once and then they'd go right back to B-26s, JU-88s, Lancs, 17s, 24s, all of which have vastly superior defensive firepower and/or bomb loads, and performance. I mean when was the last time you saw a Betty in LWA ? And the Betty is a racehorse compared to the PBY.

We need a Soviet level bomber. Not another hangar queen. All due respect.

Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: oboe on August 22, 2011, 02:45:34 PM
I though this post was going to be about a player starting a new job @ brown, and it made me think of their commerical jingle as applied to AH.
This all I got but I bet there some pretty creative minds out there:

When trucks move sup-plies
to an airfield of size,
that's Lo-gis-tics

When a train on the track
shoots you down with its ack,
that's Lo-gis-tics

When a barge on the Seas
fills a port with CVs,
that's Lo-gis-tics
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Scherf on August 22, 2011, 04:13:29 PM
As much as I love and admire the PBY Catalina do you really see anyone in the game tooling along at 190 mph, climb rate of 1,000' per min, looking for CVs ?

Raises hand. (I suck at pretty much everything else.)

+1,000,000 for the idea.


ditto for the buttons image there, its uh, hypnotic and I , uh,  sorta , uh      .....                   ,
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 22, 2011, 05:20:20 PM
 :banana: :banana: :banana:

I though this post was going to be about a player starting a new job @ brown, and it made me think of their commerical jingle as applied to AH.
This all I got but I bet there some pretty creative minds out there:

When trucks move sup-plies
to an airfield of size,
that's Lo-gis-tics

When a train on the track
shoots you down with its ack,
that's Lo-gis-tics

When a barge on the Seas
fills a port with CVs,
that's Lo-gis-tics

Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: G0ALY on August 22, 2011, 07:01:23 PM
The conditions that made the PBY a success in the war are not present in the game. We dont have a vast pacific, most of it out of enemy fighter range. We dont have downed pilots, "and who would fly 2 hours to save one anyway"? We dont have night attacks on enemy convoys. Dont have submarines. All we have are CVs to bomb, and the PBY is so poorly defended it would be dead meat before it even got close to the CV. Players might upp a PBY once and then they'd go right back to B-26s, JU-88s, Lancs, 17s, 24s, all of which have vastly superior defensive firepower and/or bomb loads, and performance. I mean when was the last time you saw a Betty in LWA ? And the Betty is a racehorse compared to the PBY.

We need a Soviet level bomber. Not another hangar queen. All due respect.


This could be summed up with, “I wouldn’t fly this… So nobody else should have a chance to either.”

All due respect.

Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Devil 505 on August 22, 2011, 08:09:11 PM
This could be summed up with, “I wouldn’t fly this… So nobody else should have a chance to either.”

All due respect.


But he makes a valid point. It would be like having the C-47 but no use for troops or supplies. Why would anybody fly it if it doesnt fill a role needed in the game?
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: G0ALY on August 22, 2011, 08:34:14 PM
Adding a seaplane with the ability to be operated from ports creates a NEW roll in the game.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Rich52 on August 22, 2011, 08:45:48 PM
This could be summed up with, “I wouldn’t fly this… So nobody else should have a chance to either.”

All due respect.



Actually Im saying virtually nobody would fly it. I thought I made that clear. There is no niche in the game for it to fill.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Devil 505 on August 22, 2011, 09:53:49 PM
Adding a seaplane with the ability to be operated from ports creates a NEW roll in the game.

No it doesn't. It's just a useless plane you can fly from a port with no purpose for its existance.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Changeup on August 23, 2011, 08:02:54 AM
No it doesn't. It's just a useless plane you can fly from a port with no purpose for its existance.


 Some ideas:

- launch resupply flights to bases
- launch resupply flights to CVs
- endurance recon flights
- CSAR ( combat search and rescue) how cool would it be to be able to pick up bailed pilots at sea? Pilot gets a life and the seaplane driver gets perks for saving him

Just some thoughts
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: G0ALY on August 23, 2011, 01:57:43 PM
Actually Im saying virtually nobody would fly it. I thought I made that clear. There is no niche in the game for it to fill.

This creates a niche and then fills it… WIN - WIN.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 23, 2011, 08:17:19 PM
Some ideas:

- launch resupply flights to bases
- launch resupply flights to CVs
- endurance recon flights
- CSAR ( combat search and rescue) how cool would it be to be able to pick up bailed pilots at sea? Pilot gets a life and the seaplane driver gets perks for saving him

Just some thoughts

Some other ideas are to give it it's own dar ring, not visible to country, but that the player is able to air cons as well as (and here's the kicker) SHIPS!  This would allow NOE recon for carriers and make the PBY effective in a roll that's suited to it.  It'd be low and slow, but it has some defensive gunnery...  It's ability to launch from a port and keep low if needed would be pluses that allow it to work in it's roll.  Yes it's not entirely realistic, but it adds a use and even somewhat of a bonus for flying one.  I think the cons of the plane would still outweigh this and keep it from being a huge game changer...

But really, PBY is just a pipe-dream, I think the carrier supply convoy idea by itself would fix a couple complaints and add an element to the game that would be new and exciting, especially to the more 'role playing' pilots.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: guncrasher on August 23, 2011, 11:05:31 PM
cvs had enough supplies to operate for several weeks, even in ah days it will take several rl days for the cv needing supplies,  so you would have to  limit cv range to one rl hour or two and if supplies vessels get sunk then cv is out of commission.  needing supplies to be flown.  cvs cannot be resuplied  by air.  very unrealistic way to try to introduce the pby.

semp
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: iron650 on August 24, 2011, 07:32:00 AM
+1

If we can't supply a CV by air have a support fleet with oil tankers and an escort carrier.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Changeup on August 24, 2011, 08:28:01 AM
cvs had enough supplies to operate for several weeks, even in ah days it will take several rl days for the cv needing supplies,  so you would have to  limit cv range to one rl hour or two and if supplies vessels get sunk then cv is out of commission.  needing supplies to be flown.  cvs cannot be resuplied  by air.  very unrealistic way to try to introduce the pby.

semp

I wouldnt say unrealistic, supps are flown to carriers everyday....as it applies to the game now, yes...but RL? Very realistic
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: SmokinLoon on August 24, 2011, 08:36:10 AM
Raises hand. (I suck at pretty much everything else.)

+1,000,000 for the idea.


ditto for the buttons image there, its uh, hypnotic and I , uh,  sorta , uh      .....                   ,

Wow.. something that would be slower than the C47!   :)
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Changeup on August 24, 2011, 08:55:42 AM
Wow.. something that would be slower than the C47!   :)
Yes but it could have it's own DAR ring
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 24, 2011, 11:04:31 AM
cvs had enough supplies to operate for several weeks, even in ah days it will take several rl days for the cv needing supplies,  so you would have to  limit cv range to one rl hour or two and if supplies vessels get sunk then cv is out of commission.  needing supplies to be flown.  cvs cannot be resuplied  by air.  very unrealistic way to try to introduce the pby.

semp

CV's would be resupplied by support convoys.  As stated, these convoys would bring about the need and use of something like a PBY.  In recon for shipping, that's not unrealistic at all.  Also, I'm sure a Carrier group steaming across the central pacific with nothing going on isn't going to require as many resupplies.  They'll be launching scout craft, but for the most part operations are frozen.  Now get into the island hopping campaigns of the south pacific where there's attrition on planes, hundreds if not thousands of sorties being flown in which fuel and ordinance is used, antiaircraft & ground artillery use etc etc etc...  and you end up with a group that probably requires resupply a bit more often.

Point is not to make this game 'more realistic', obviously that's not a huge concern or we'd have wind, weather, night time, varying terrain and all that other fun stuff that you'd see.  Instead, it's offering a solution to an extremely common complaint.  Please try and offer something constructive to the game.  Don't be a Negative Nancy.
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: Delirium on August 24, 2011, 12:57:52 PM
Carriers had many supply ships meet up with them, particularly when air operations were present. They could go weeks, if they didn't have air operations taking place.

(http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/GSBO/img/GSBO-18-7.jpg)

Here is a picture of a CVE under going refueling.

(http://www.ussnewdd818.org/SB-4.jpg)

This is a link to a diary made by a sailor, note the multiple refuels in his log.

http://www.cowpensvets.org/wardiary.html

Now I'll quote Donald L. Miller, who is well known for his consulting work and historical background.

"... along with a sea train of fuel (bold added by me), cargo, repair and hospital vessels that allowed the task groups to operate out of port for as long as 70 days. Each carrier group was refueled every 4 days by oilers, which also brought the mail and the latest movies."

This is a nice reference for the use of resupply during the Okinawa campaign. (Summary of Service, Biographical File: Rear Adm. Edward E. Paré)

    "The fuel required for the Okinawa operation far exceeded that consumed during any previous campaign. This large consumption was the result of the many ships employed and an increase in their endurance at sea because of the underway replenishment facilities of Service Squadron 6. Between 17 March and 27 May, the amount of fuel oil, diesel oil, and aviation gasoline issued by Task Group 50.8 for replenishment at sea (including its own use) was 8,745,000 barrels of fuel oil (ninety tankers' worth), 259,000 barrels of diesel oil, and 21,477,000 gallons of aviation gasoline. This was more petroleum than Japan managed to import or produce during the entire year of 1944!"


Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: wil3ur on August 24, 2011, 02:20:42 PM
Carriers had many supply ships meet up with them, particularly when air operations were present. They could go weeks, if they didn't have air operations taking place.

(http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/GSBO/img/GSBO-18-7.jpg)

Here is a picture of a CVE under going refueling.

(http://www.ussnewdd818.org/SB-4.jpg)

This is a link to a diary made by a sailor, note the multiple refuels in his log.

http://www.cowpensvets.org/wardiary.html

Now I'll quote Donald L. Miller, who is well known for his consulting work and historical background.

"... along with a sea train of fuel (bold added by me), cargo, repair and hospital vessels that allowed the task groups to operate out of port for as long as 70 days. Each carrier group was refueled every 4 days by oilers, which also brought the mail and the latest movies."

This is a nice reference for the use of resupply during the Okinawa campaign. (Summary of Service, Biographical File: Rear Adm. Edward E. Paré)

    "The fuel required for the Okinawa operation far exceeded that consumed during any previous campaign. This large consumption was the result of the many ships employed and an increase in their endurance at sea because of the underway replenishment facilities of Service Squadron 6. Between 17 March and 27 May, the amount of fuel oil, diesel oil, and aviation gasoline issued by Task Group 50.8 for replenishment at sea (including its own use) was 8,745,000 barrels of fuel oil (ninety tankers' worth), 259,000 barrels of diesel oil, and 21,477,000 gallons of aviation gasoline. This was more petroleum than Japan managed to import or produce during the entire year of 1944!"




Thanks Del, and proves my point beautifully.   +<3
Title: Re: I <3 LOGISTICS!
Post by: surfinn on August 24, 2011, 04:42:57 PM
+1 I like the idea. Its kinda like my refueling ac that landed safely in the grass idea  :salute