Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Karnak on September 04, 2011, 06:30:26 PM
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Based on save's post in the Aircraft and Vehicles forum, I would like to see an option added to limit bomber drones to flying on cruise settings when they are not taking off or climbing. Doing so would at least give the player the choice to fly fast and solo or at a cruise with the drones. While this would not be appropriate for the MAs as bombers there are already basically free kills, it could be useful for the AvA, Custom Arenas and perhaps scenarios.
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-1
Learn to fly fast
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+1. This would help tremendously in fso's. Like the battle of Britain where the JU-88*4 is just to fast for those poor spit1's and hurri1's.
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-1
Learn to fly fast
If I'm right, bombers never flew at full throttle in large formations (which the formation enabled planes flew in)
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If I'm right, bombers never flew at full throttle in large formations (which the formation enabled planes flew in)
You are very correct. B24's dropped at roughly 220 TAS in the south PTO. ;)
There are a LOT of factors in AH that lend towards the ability of bombers to fly at max throttle and have not a worry in the world:
Auto pilot. No wind. No fuel/range issues. No death. Etc Etc Etc. HTC could easily put in a "max speed" for being able to drop bombs. Some bombers are going to be faster, namely the B29 because it NEEDS speed to stay aloft. But B17's, B24's, Lancs, B26's, etc etc, should not be dropping ords at 280 TAS.
I think this idea has merit. I've vouched for it for a long time.
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If I'm right, bombers never flew at full throttle in large formations (which the formation enabled planes flew in)
that is true, however, it was only due to fuel as in ww2 they flew hundreds of miles and many hours to get there. same as for fighters, they didnt go everywhere at full throttle, specially the Japanese who were always proud of how little fuel they used in their sorties.
semp
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that is true, however, it was only due to fuel as in ww2 they flew hundreds of miles and many hours to get there. same as for fighters, they didnt go everywhere at full throttle, specially the Japanese who were always proud of how little fuel they used in their sorties.
semp
Fighters went full throttle in combat. Most bombers did not. I know the Russians were fond of using full power for the whole flight on just about everything, but the Russians have always been a little blunt.
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-100
Sounds to much like a request to slow bombers down so there easier to intercept to me.
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-100
Sounds to much like a request to slow bombers down so there easier to intercept to me.
You're so right. It has nothing to do with mimicking the actual limitations of the real bombing runs. The bombers are going to get intercepted regardless. :bhead
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You're so right. It has nothing to do with mimicking the actual limitations of the real bombing runs. The bombers are going to get intercepted regardless. :bhead
If you wish for realistic bomb runs down to a T then i invite you to join any of the numerous Bombing scenarios/Events.
But your gonna cry realism in the MA's? ok, in that case.
-I want a dive limiter on all Heavy bombers. Lancstuaka arent realistic. Therefore they need a limit.
-Tigers and panthers and panzers never fought alongside T34s/shermans. Therefore i want each tanks nationality limited to a certain country only, to make it more realistic.
-No sherman can ever park itself on the edge of a beach and fire upon a CV group. No tank sunk a CV in WWII. Therefore they are not aloud to in the MA. To make it more realistic.
-Unperk everything. "Perks" never existed in WWII. therefore they shouldnt be in this game.
I believe my point is pretty clear, But i can keep going if you need me to.
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the real life bombers did a lot of things that don't happen in ah, and they didn't do a lot of things that do happen in ah...this wish is a whine. of all the times that "it's a game, get over it" gets tossed around, it fits this wish.
aside from fuel constraints, there were a dozen different reasons for bombers to not fly at full throttle for the entire mission, but those reasons don't generally exist in ah...especially in the main arenas. there aren't 300 plane formations of bombers doing 8-10 hour bomb runs. there aren't that many players who even know how to maintain a formation for longer than 5 minutes. bomb sight calibration is much easier in ah than in real life. dropping bombs on military bases was generally performed by fighters and light or medium bombers, not big heavy four engine bombers.
trying to artificially force someone on a bomb run to lower his level flight speed for whatever reason yet still allowing all the other gamey crap that happens in ah is just silly...
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No sherman can ever park itself on the edge of a beach and fire upon a CV group. No tank sunk a CV in WWII. Therefore they are not aloud to in the MA. To make it more realistic.
No CV group was parked 1000 yards offshore from an enemy base during combat either. Therefore they should not be allowed to do it in the game either. But, that's another old and tired set of threads...
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this is pretty easily sorted for special events where you can restict bombers to certain fields and fuel loadouts - give the buffs just enough fuel to climb under full power, then cruise to target and back. theres no reason for the buffs to be flying at unhistoric speeds in events, wont work in the MA tho ...
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Yeesh. A whole bunch of people can't read evidently.
I was bleepin' upfront about the fact that this would not be for the MAs. It says it right there in the OP. Stop whining about something that isn't being requested.
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+1. This would help tremendously in fso's. Like the battle of Britain where the JU-88*4 is just to fast for those poor spit1's and hurri1's.
^This
It would help FSO tremendously. It would force bombers to form up in the same defensive formations that were used in the war instead of simply running flat out to target and back.
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that's up to the squads...the good squads form up and adjust speed to keep everyone together. the rest, well once again someone is trying to artificially force behavior modification...like passing a law about walking and texting. :rolleyes:
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Sounds like to me we don't have the correct aircraft for the FSO. If the bombers are too fast, its probably because we are using a '43 variant of a bomber and trying to attack it with '39 era fighter. I would suggest pushing for some more early war bomber variants.
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that's up to the squads...the good squads form up and adjust speed to keep everyone together. the rest, well once again someone is trying to artificially force behavior modification...like passing a law about walking and texting. :rolleyes:
Try actually reading and thinking.
Sounds like to me we don't have the correct aircraft for the FSO. If the bombers are too fast, its probably because we are using a '43 variant of a bomber and trying to attack it with '39 era fighter. I would suggest pushing for some more early war bomber variants.
The Ju88A-4 is a 1940 version that fought in the Battle of Britain. The problem is that bombers fly at full throttle at all times, not that we have the wrong versions.
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The Ju88A-4 is a 1940 version that fought in the Battle of Britain. The problem is that bombers fly at full throttle at all times, not that we have the wrong versions.
Like the battle of Britain where the JU-88*4 is just to fast for those poor spit1's and hurri1's.
That doesn't even make sense, look at the numbers
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=60&p2=30&pw=1>ype=0)
(http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/scores/genchart.php?p1=62&p2=30&pw=1>ype=0)
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If you wish for realistic bomb runs down to a T then i invite you to join any of the numerous Bombing scenarios/Events.
But your gonna cry realism in the MA's? ok, in that case.
-I want a dive limiter on all Heavy bombers. Lancstuaka arent realistic. Therefore they need a limit.
-Tigers and panthers and panzers never fought alongside T34s/shermans. Therefore i want each tanks nationality limited to a certain country only, to make it more realistic.
-No sherman can ever park itself on the edge of a beach and fire upon a CV group. No tank sunk a CV in WWII. Therefore they are not aloud to in the MA. To make it more realistic.
-Unperk everything. "Perks" never existed in WWII. therefore they shouldnt be in this game.
I believe my point is pretty clear, But i can keep going if you need me to.
Says the guy requesting perks for scouting. :rolleyes:
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Says the guy requesting perks for scouting. :rolleyes:
scouting occured thousands of times in ww2.
I requested perkies because we do have perkies in the system and if i ever want to up a tiger i DO have to earn some whether i like it or not.
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aaaaaaand another thread hijacked that will spin out of control and finally crash and burn.
-1 to the OP.
the spits are faster than the JU88 at all heights, so, whatchya talkin' bout boy? :headscratch:
scouting occured thousands of times in ww2.
I requested perkies because we do have perkies in the system and if i ever want to up a tiger i DO have to earn some whether i like it or not.
as for this, no. you made it just so you can get "m0aR p3rKz!" of course it happened IRL, but do you think they were rewarded for doing their job? no. they werent. so, bad idea.
back on topic now?
to the OP, your trying to force your way of flying onto others (somewhat) and let me explain. your saying that bombers almost never flew full throttle on bombing runs. great, but this game is about modeling historically correct planes/boats/vehicles. the way the player plays is their problem, not HTC's because they cant control what throttle they fly at. the way we have it now is fine, and if the spits/hurri's obviously keep up with the bombers then nothing is wrong at all. if you want to fly "100% historically correct" at a scenario then by all means do it. its really up to your teammates wether or not to fly "100% historically correct" because they have the freedom to do so. if this really bugs you, then talk to the CM thats running the event and see if he/she will actually do this just for you so you dont have to deal with the innacuracy that takes place each and every day in the pixel world known as aces high.
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aaaaaaand another thread hijacked that will spin out of control and finally crash and burn.
-1 to the OP.
the spits are faster than the JU88 at all heights, so, whatchya talkin' bout boy? :headscratch:
as for this, no. you made it just so you can get "m0aR p3rKz!" of course it happened IRL, but do you think they were rewarded for doing their job? no. they werent. so, bad idea.
Your a complete moron. I just facepalmed.
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Your a complete moron. I just facepalmed.
so your saying the guys who scouted in real life got paid extra for this? i think that your the moron for not reading what it actually meant here.
so in the end, your the one getting all the facepalms.
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so your saying the guys who scouted in real life got= paid extra for this? i think that your the moron for not reading what it actually meant here.
Idk why i expect a 14yr old to know what he's talking about. i really really dont.
But lets shush skorpion before you derail yet another topic.
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Idk why i expect a 14yr old to know what he's talking about. i really really dont.
But lets shush skorpion before you derail yet another topic.
oh, dont back out now. your saying the troops who were assigned to do scouting got paid extra IRL.
you obviously underestimate younger persons knowledge.
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skorpion,
In the context of the MAs, I agree with you and even said as much in the OP. That is why I requested it as an arena setting. Its purpose would be for events and such that are supposed to be more historically accurate.
Hurricane Mk Is did not get a single pass and then a long tail chase against Ju88s in reality. The speed of the bombers also exaggerates the shooting time they have against attacking fighters in any sort of rear approach.
The fact is that, other than the Russians, bombers did not fight at full throttle and fighters did. For scenarios that are supposed to be more realistic it would be nice to have a tool to try to enforce that.
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skorpion,
In the context of the MAs, I agree with you and even said as much in the OP. That is why I requested it as an arena setting. Its purpose would be for events and such that are supposed to be more historically accurate.
Hurricane Mk Is did not get a single pass and then a long tail chase against Ju88s in reality. The speed of the bombers also exaggerates the shooting time they have against attacking fighters in any sort of rear approach.
The fact is that, other than the Russians, bombers did not fight at full throttle and fighters did. For scenarios that are supposed to be more realistic it would be nice to have a tool to try to enforce that.
i understand your all for realism, as am i, but do you know how hard it would be to code that into the game? VERY difficult. its like trying to code in a limiter on your desires, and nobody can controll those. it just wouldnt be worth the time for HTC to model it.
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oh, dont back out now. your saying the troops who were assigned to do scouting got paid extra IRL.
you obviously underestimate younger persons knowledge.
I think i over estimate it,actually.
You keep saying the main point and you dont even realize it.
paid extra
[/b]
did they get PAID EXTRA? You saying that alone is you confirming that they did get PAID for what they did period. Scouts in AH? they get nothing. no perks, no "pay" nothing.
So if you want to go the "real life" route, i can just as easily say that Scouts got paid in rl. Scouts in AH dont get paid at all. therefore they deserve perkies.
Now skorpion, shut up already. We dont need another thread derailed because you feel you need to prove some point that not even yourself know what it is.
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i understand your all for realism, as am i, but do you know how hard it would be to code that into the game? VERY difficult. its like trying to code in a limiter on your desires, and nobody can controll those. it just wouldnt be worth the time for HTC to model it.
I think it would be very hard to code it for the player's bomber. It would not be particularly hard to do so for the drones.
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Try actually reading and thinking.
i have, repeatedly and it's obvious you want to artificially force behavior modification. don't try to tell us every time you up a fighter that you fly the way actual fighter pilots flew, like take 100% fuel all the time, always fly with a wingman, keep your speed down so you and your wingman can stay within 50 yards of each other until you get into a dog fight, etc...etc..etc... no you don't do any of that, so trying to get a program change to force people to fly bombers the way you believe they should is hypocritical at best.
in an event like fso where there is a 60 minute time limit on initial strikes, in many setups bombers flying at historical speeds would need more than 60 minutes.
The Ju88A-4 is a 1940 version that fought in the Battle of Britain. The problem is that bombers fly at full throttle at all times, not that we have the wrong versions.
actually the ju-88a1 which was in service in 1939 was the more common type, the a4 model didn't go into service until 1940 and due to problems with the engines, the ju-88a5 was introduced which was a1 with longer wings. the ju-88a4 actually entered full service with the new jumo 211j engines in 1941.
if anything you should just be wishing for more time line specific aircraft to fit the special events better...
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I think it would be very hard to code it for the player's bomber. It would not be particularly hard to do so for the drones.
well i see another flaw with this. the drones might get coded like the ones offline (missions) and fly so slow that the main bomber just stalls and falls away from the sky.
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I think i over estimate it,actually.
You keep saying the main point and you dont even realize it.
paid extra
[/b]
did they get PAID EXTRA? You saying that alone is you confirming that they did get PAID for what they did period. Scouts in AH? they get nothing. no perks, no "pay" nothing.
So if you want to go the "real life" route, i can just as easily say that Scouts got paid in rl. Scouts in AH dont get paid at all. therefore they deserve perkies.
Now skorpion, shut up already. We dont need another thread derailed because you feel you need to prove some point that not even yourself know what it is.
as for your stupidity, you obviously cant interpret what those simple sentences mean. it means your saying troops that went scouting got paid more for doing that very thing they were originally assigned and they dont get paid more.
honestly, take another 30 seconds to read and make a reply.
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as for your stupidity, you obviously cant interpret what those simple sentences mean. it means your saying troops that went scouting got paid more for doing that very thing they were originally assigned and they dont get paid more.
honestly, take another 30 seconds to read and make a reply.
:bhead
:rolleyes:
Im done arguing with this illiterate pre-teen. i really just need to squeltch him.
Sorry Karnak. I didnt mean for this pissing contest to take up your thread.
Im out. -poof-
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:bhead
:rolleyes:
Im done arguing with this illiterate pre-teen. i really just need to squeltch him.
Sorry Karnak. I didnt mean for this pissing contest to take up your thread.
Im out. -poof-
im sure your just butthurt that you know you were wrong on this. what you really wanted was perks for nothing.
you didnt even give a single good reply to the OP as i recall...so, tell me, who was the real genius that started it?
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gyrene81,
This request specifically omitted the MAs and thus would have zero impact on you. It was a request for a setting option that could be used for scenarios and custom arenas. You are railing and gnashing your teeth at a strawman, because you didn't read the request.
skorpion,
That would be a bug. Flying on cruise settings should result in speeds in the 220mph range for B-24s, for example.
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gyrene81,
This request specifically omitted the MAs and thus would have zero impact on you. It was a request for a setting option that could be used for scenarios and custom arenas. You are railing and gnashing your teeth at a strawman, because you didn't read the request.
skorpion,
That would be a bug. Flying on cruise settings should result in speeds in the 220mph range for B-24s, for example.
not really sure its a bug as much as it was the way that HT decided to re-do the offline missions. maybe it just didnt come out like they wanted it to?
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scouting occured thousands of times in ww2.
So did formations of bombers flying at cruise speed.
I requested perkies because we do have perkies in the system and if i ever want to up a tiger i DO have to earn some whether i like it or not.
I guess earning those perks by actually fighting instead of something as lame as just seeing the enemy is out of the question?
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gyrene81,
This request specifically omitted the MAs and thus would have zero impact on you. It was a request for a setting option that could be used for scenarios and custom arenas. You are railing and gnashing your teeth at a strawman, because you didn't read the request.
no karnak, i did read every part...repeatedly. again, artificially forcing behavior modification to suit what you believe should be what happens. what your wanting would be the same a restricting fuel loadouts to just enough to reach a specific alt and complete the mission. you want people to fly bombers according to real life, give them a reason and teach them how. as long as people continue to view ah as a game, they are going to behave like it's a game and do whatever they feel they can get away with.
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no karnak, i did read every part...repeatedly. again, artificially forcing behavior modification to suit what you believe should be what happens. what your wanting would be the same a restricting fuel loadouts to just enough to reach a specific alt and complete the mission. you want people to fly bombers according to real life, give them a reason and teach them how. as long as people continue to view ah as a game, they are going to behave like it's a game and do whatever they feel they can get away with.
What part of "Not appropriate for the MA" do you not understand? It was a request for a tool for custom arenas and scenarios, which if you don't like historical events, you can avoid and never, ever be even slightly affected by said request.
The fact is that for the vast majority of bombers, combat was done at cruise settings and the vast majority of fighters combat was done at full power. In AH both fight at full power, even when the intent of the scenario is to be historical.
This was nothing more than a request for an additional tool that would allow scenarios to be run in a more historical manner. Your panties are in a bunch over it for some unknown reason.
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For the FSO, why not limit the fuel and the base the bombers have to up from, this way if they do fly full throttle, they will run out.
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For the FSO, why not limit the fuel and the base the bombers have to up from, this way if they do fly full throttle, they will run out.
Yes, because in the years I have been flying BUFFs I always tend to run out of gas with 25% :uhoh
I get what OP is saying, but admit it, its not going to happen. BUFFs flew cruise for a reason. If HTC wants to model those reasons (fuel constraints, skewed sights, engine wear, etc) then let him. Don't just put a speed limit.
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Yes, because in the years I have been flying BUFFs I always tend to run out of gas with 25% :uhoh
increase the fuel multiplyer ju88s don't carry nearly as much fuel as a lank.
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What part of "Not appropriate for the MA" do you not understand? It was a request for a tool for custom arenas and scenarios, which if you don't like historical events, you can avoid and never, ever be even slightly affected by said request.
The fact is that for the vast majority of bombers, combat was done at cruise settings and the vast majority of fighters combat was done at full power. In AH both fight at full power, even when the intent of the scenario is to be historical.
This was nothing more than a request for an additional tool that would allow scenarios to be run in a more historical manner. Your panties are in a bunch over it for some unknown reason.
i fly the special events and if/when i get assigned to fly a bomber i do not want some artificial constraint on my speed, neither do any of the other people who fly bombers in those events. you conveniently overlook the real reasons bombers flew at slower than max speed, of which there were many and none of which exist in ah.
fighters did not fly full throttle the entire time they were in the air any more than bombers did, especially the fighters assigned to bomber escort duty. they actually used more fuel jockeying their throttles trying to stay in formation and within close proximity to the bombers. historically, fighters and bombers took a minimum of 100% fuel all the time. historically a bomber mission took at least 4 hours and many lasted 12+ hours. historically allied fighters didn't travel all the way to the target with the bombers every single time there was a bombing mission. historically the light and medium twin engine bombers flew at low and medium altitudes as fast as they could while maintaining formation. historically heavy bombers stayed within 100 feet of each other to increase the chances of survival, the lead and tail end elements were the most vulnerable.
i don't wear panties, maybe you shouldn't either.