Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: snakeplissken on September 11, 2011, 11:06:38 PM
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I have noticed a drop in FSO participation over the last few years... I have also seen a general decline in numbers in the game... I don't believe it is a problem with FSO... I know very few players that say, "I like the Main Arena, but I don't like FSO." Instead, I hear compliments and know people that say "FSO is the best part of the game." Now as an FSO CM, I am not allowed to praise my event over any other.... So I didn't say that out loud. "These are not the droids you are looking for." Candidly, I am amazed so many people give up their Friday nights for FSO. We have young guys in my squad that log on and say "I was suppose to go out tonight with my friends but, I told them I had to stay in and fly FSO." LMAO, people crack me up.... But, from the CM point of view, let us know if there is something we can help with to make the event better. The Admins have dreamed up everything from Carrier gun battles (Feb) to the 1st event with the new Zero (April) to B29 runs over Tokoyo (May) to Jets and Tempests, (this month). To quote Johhny Dangerously, we are constantly exploring new and better areas of crime." But I want to go on record and tell you that Admins are weird people... They ate the flower dust or something...
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I'd be careful at what you allow based on suggestions. I am not a CM but I wouldn't go with just anything. What am I sayin, you guys are great and know what youre doing. MY only comment or suggestion would be actively recruiting new squads. Not just pilots, whole squads. ALL CO's should find stray pilots in MA that might wanna fly FSO. Advertise on 200 "Anyone want to fly a Dora tonight in FSO?" Youd be amazed at how many PMs you will get. I think event wise, nothing needs to be changed. Hell, no change at all is necessary. But more squads and fresh blood is always recommended :devil:
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Personally, I am getting very tired of climbing for 45 minutes (after hanging in the tower for 30) for a 2 minute fight that I or the bad guy ends up on the wrong side of a 3 vs 1. Don't care if everyone in WWII flew to 30k and still got bounced. I would rather fly in the MA, than have a sortie that lasts up to an hour or more with no guarantee of even getting in a fight. I do enjoy the company of my squad, but that is what has kept me here. Not the game play. Going to take a FSO vacation after this next frame.
Would rather see a 25k fighter/20k bomber ceiling implemented, as well as having shorter mission routes. Maybe even a second life.
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I would like to see an earlier start time, at least by one hour. I understand it needs a late start to allow the west coast guys a chance to play but currently they have the optimum time for most at 8-10pm. Moving it forward by one hour would help out the east coast guys without adding much of a sacrifice to the west coast guys. Most people are home from work and done with dinner by 7pm. I for one would prefer rushing through dinner to get to FSO instead of being up to 1am.
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I would like to see an earlier start time, at least by one hour.
This.
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I would like to see a small corner 10 sectors away from the main FSO battles used for base capturing after T+60. One nuetral base to be fought over by both sides using GV's and aircraft from the FSO order of battle. Each side capture results in bonus points for that side.
For blue water maps, same thing for a nuetral port fought over by two CV groups. C-47's to be launched from CV's.
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Personally, I am getting very tired of climbing for 45 minutes (after hanging in the tower for 30) for a 2 minute fight that I or the bad guy ends up on the wrong side of a 3 vs 1. Don't care if everyone in WWII flew to 30k and still got bounced. I would rather fly in the MA, than have a sortie that lasts up to an hour or more with no guarantee of even getting in a fight. I do enjoy the company of my squad, but that is what has kept me here. Not the game play. Going to take a FSO vacation after this next frame.
Would rather see a 25k fighter/20k bomber ceiling implemented, as well as having shorter mission routes. Maybe even a second life.
That is really a CIC problem, more than a FSO or CM issue.
This is not a dig at anyone in particular, just a raw fact.
Some orders are just not well written.
Some folks were not meant to, or do not know how to lead.
Sometimes it is just bad luck.
Sometimes the opposing CIC has a better plan than to one that you have.
Sometimes the CIC writes the orders so that their particular squad is poised to be in a position to get the most contact and the lion's share of the kills.
The flip side of that coin is that I have seen orders from CIC's that were brilliant.
I have also seen CIC's and/or squad leaders that can "smell" the enemy for lack of a better word and know exactly where and when to vector their forces to be in a good position.
As for the decline in numbers, I have noticed that this usually happens over the summer months for the obvious reasons.
With regard to declining numbers over the past few years, this is more of an issue for HiTech. Every business owner has to deal with the intricacies and nuances of marketing their product to the public and must evolve both their marketing strategy and product in order to remain solvent.
Sometimes one has to be almost clairvoyant. It is a balancing act between listening to what the customer wants, and knowing/giving them what they actually need.
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Just a related question: How large is current FSO participation? I have been away for quite a while (4 years maybe?), miss it a lot but finding time for gaming has become a major problem. I seem remember having 100ish FSO participants when i was a noob, which grew to well over 200. The Sunday version (SSO) was getting 60-80 in the old days and it then fizzled out while FSO grew. Anyway, just curious.
I always liked the 1 life adrenaline rush, the long patrols of boredom, the quick deadly fights, and then, if you were lucky, finding a place to refuel and rearm to go find another fight before time ran out. I also understand that this is not for everyone, but once you get hooked in, its hard to stay away!
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To me FSO is one of the high points of Aces High. Not wanting to digress too much... but I do enjoy the constant action in the MA's... and the camaraderie with my squad and other friends I have made here.
But as for FSO... its the teamwork, planning, and dedication that drew me in. I think my first FSO I was dead within seconds of the first engagement... augured in if I am not mistaken. But the sheer scale and thrill of it has kept me coming back.
True... there are some nights that I dont see much action. It ends up being a 90 minute patrol with a few moments of "what is that over there?" mixed in. But then there are other nights that its an hour plus of "Bandits! bandits!... check it! check it!.. OMG! OMG!... get him off me! get him off me!... GOT HIM YEAH!... Bombers 10 o'clock low!... Dude dont get in front of me!"
Those are the nights that you remember.
As for suggestions... thats a tough one.
I think an AVG and UK vs Japan event would be nice (if there isnt already one).
A "Pacific Theatre 1942" FSO might be a good idea. The idea being 3 frames, but each frame representing a different battle in the pacific.
Frame 1 - Coral Sea http://www.ww2pacific.com/coralsea.html
Frame 2 - Midway http://www.ww2pacific.com/midway2.html
Frame 3 - Soloman Sea http://www.ww2pacific.com/eastsol.html
All 3 of these represent major carrier battles that occurred during 1942. And the historical balance of forces is close. It also gives some of the less used pacific aircraft a chance to shine. The F4F, SBD, & TBM... along with the D3A & B5N... and of course the A6M2 & A6M3. It leaves out the high powered, heavy hitters of the later war years.
By spreading the action out over 3 battles... and possibly 3 different maps (if we have them)... the tactics and planning would be totally different for each frame. Of course... you could just run them as 3 totally separate FSO's.
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Last Friday's FSO saw participation by 341 players at launch. A few more may have came in late. Good numbers (amazing for a Friday night). But, a couple years back they were 500 +. Now, a few years before that, you are right, 100-200 was standard.
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Personally, I am getting very tired of climbing for 45 minutes (after hanging in the tower for 30) for a 2 minute fight that I or the bad guy ends up on the wrong side of a 3 vs 1. Don't care if everyone in WWII flew to 30k and still got bounced. I would rather fly in the MA, than have a sortie that lasts up to an hour or more with no guarantee of even getting in a fight. I do enjoy the company of my squad, but that is what has kept me here. Not the game play. Going to take a FSO vacation after this next frame.
Would rather see a 25k fighter/20k bomber ceiling implemented, as well as having shorter mission routes. Maybe even a second life.
If you dont like spending more time flying than fighting, I suggest DA. This event is meant to put us gamers as close to the real thing as possible. And, lets be honest, in real life more time was spent climbing to say the least. I say, get over it.
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AKP, suggesting a certain setup will not help. The setups are almost arbitrary when it comes to participation (except late war Luft). Suggesting Pacific...nevermind.
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Last Friday's FSO saw participation by 341 players at launch. A few more may have came in late. Good numbers (amazing for a Friday night). But, a couple years back they were 500 +. Now, a few years before that, you are right, 100-200 was standard.
When the economy starts to rebound and many former players can return to a normal work week before, then they will sign back up for the 15 bucks a month. That's when we will resume the 500+ numbers for FSO. It might be a couple of years before that happens.
I always praise the game for people I meet in RL who are real life pilots and aviation enthusiasts. Sort of my little way of recruiting.
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AKP, suggesting a certain setup will not help. The setups are almost arbitrary when it comes to participation (except late war Luft). Suggesting Pacific...nevermind.
Your disdain for Pacific theatre is noted... as is your opinion.
ALL CO's should find stray pilots in MA that might wanna fly FSO. Advertise on 200 "Anyone want to fly a Dora tonight in FSO?" Youd be amazed at how many PMs you will get.
The idea of advertising on 200 for pilots for your squad on the night of the frame is rather concerning... and not recommended. It will draw those that do not have any stake or respect for FSO... and walks a fine line with the "no walk on" rule.
A better method would be to talk to those you actually fly with in the main arenas... talk about what you did in FSO. What a good time it is. Talk it up. Not only are you spreading the word of your experiences, you are spreading it to people you know and associate with... and know how they act and behave. Hanging it out there on 200 is just asking for trouble.
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I would like to see an earlier start time, at least by one hour.
Surely wouldn't hurt to give this a try? I usually try to hit the main for an hour before FSO, and the numbers are high at that time. Recruit some more also as many players don't visit this bbs, or rarely anyway. :salute
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Last Friday's FSO saw participation by 341 players at launch. A few more may have came in late. Good numbers (amazing for a Friday night). But, a couple years back they were 500 +. Now, a few years before that, you are right, 100-200 was standard.
Yeah my brain may not be working properly lol...could be I am remembering it wrong and it was actually 100 per side, not 100 total. I remember bombing London (my first CiC role) and I think there was about 100 per side there. But if you are pulling in over 300 on a friday, I'd say thats no reason to worry. Obviously numbers are down a bit, but thats still pretty dang good. Keep it up....I may hafta break out the joystick again.
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I didnt say night of. I.E. Last night I asked if anyone Luftwaffe guys wanted to fly FSO next week. A Pig, Ruah, PMed me and said he would love to. HE will fly with me Friday night. Why would we turn down or look down on pilots wanting to fly in FSO? If he likes it he might tell his squaddies. They might try it and get the CO to apply. Then we have another FSO squad. I do not see how this is concerning or how this is not a good circle of events.
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I didnt say night of.
Umm... yes... you did.
Advertise on 200 "Anyone want to fly a Dora tonight in FSO?"
Maybe that just isn't what you meant?
Why would we turn down or look down on pilots wanting to fly in FSO? If he likes it he might tell his squaddies. They might try it and get the CO to apply. Then we have another FSO squad. I do not see how this is concerning or how this is not a good circle of events.
And you are correct... we should not look down on anyone wanting to fly FSO. And yes... if they try it and like it... they WILL tell their squaddies and friends. Which is a VERY good thing. My point was that NO FSO squad should take on someone they DO NOT KNOW... which was what your original statement implied. Again... if that isn't what you meant, no biggie.
But any pilot who is taken on by any squad should know what he is getting into, and have an understanding of what FSO is about. Letting a pilot join your FSO squad for the night who you have no prior experience with is not a good idea. Killshooter is OFF in FSO... it has happened before where a rogue pilot has wiped out entire squads on take off... or they have ignored mission plans and done what they wanted to.
The people that fly in FSO every month are dedicated to is success. They have a vested interest in it... and want to see it do well... and attract others who will want the same thing. You have to agree, there are some players out there, that are not going to have the patience, commitment, or discipline to take part in FSO... and that is fine. Its just not their thing.
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Im out of this thread. You win.
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From looking at the past 59 FSOs (almost 5 years worth) we have done 23 that are PACIFIC or some 38 % of them. We have done PAC 1942 numerous times and will again. ;). I do beleive if you look at the sticky post FSO schedule for 2011 you will see that next month is PAC 1942 (hosted by Bino). We do endevour to have a wide range of WW2 settings in FSO. That being said many players have favorite rides and settings, including me, but we just have to roll with it. The best way to enjoy FSO is not to get too hung up on what specific a/c you are getting but to enjoy them all. Your favorite will show up at some point in the meantime. Thats what I try to do.
Start time. I will look at it but there would have to be a wide consensus to change the start time from 11:00 EST to 10:00 EST. This will take some feedback. I am aware of the request from a number of players on that issue. The time zones in N. America do make it tricky for a weeknight setup.
I will read all the comments. Im not going to respond to all of them but the team will consider each. Feel free to state opinions. That is not a promise of any specific actions on our part (consider that a disclaimer).
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Start time. I will look at it but there would have to be a wide consensus to change the start time from 11:00 EST to 10:00 EST. This will take some feedback. I am aware of the request from a number of players on that issue. The time zones in N. America do make it tricky for a weeknight setup.
I would think that this might be worth a try. Try it for a n FSO or two and see how it works out.
<S>
Edgar
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Ive always thought it would be a good idea to have a ghost squad on each side of 20 slots and all those curious folks that show up and rudely get booted out would have a place to join in. Make the ghost squad be bombers primarily, or the lowest capable fighter.
They showed up to play. Many registered players dont each week. Reward them. Hook em and maybe they will be in uniform the following week.
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Ive always thought it would be a good idea to have a ghost squad on each side of 20 slots and all those curious folks that show up and rudely get booted out would have a place to join in. Make the ghost squad be bombers primarily, or the lowest capable fighter.
They showed up to play. Many registered players dont each week. Reward them. Hook em and maybe they will be in uniform the following week.
Not a bad idea...
...To make the ghost squad option even more appealing, assign a squad "duty" to provide 1 gal/guy to act as CO for that squad for that frame. The small squads should be exempt for that duty and if the assigned squad is at their minimum, surely another squad would step in and help. VF15 would. In a way, that ghost squad would fly like a snapshot. If you have a problem with a flyer in that squad, the duty CO reports that individual and has them ejected from the arena.
I also like the idea of an hour earlier start on Fridays. Either way, I am coming regardless, but it would be pretty cool to try it out for a month.
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I'm on the west coast and starting an hour earlier would be cool with me.
As an event, FSO it a lot more fun than chugging along in the MA. Sometimes I log into the MA and will do only one sortie, or just look around and bug out. FSO is a planned event and I have enjoyed the company of my squad and the squads we have flown with. I really enjoy calling out someones name on take-off for every one to give a check 6! :rofl Good times! :banana:
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Ive always thought it would be a good idea to have a ghost squad on each side of 20 slots and all those curious folks that show up and rudely get booted out would have a place to join in. Make the ghost squad be bombers primarily, or the lowest capable fighter.
They showed up to play. Many registered players dont each week. Reward them. Hook em and maybe they will be in uniform the following week.
That would never work.
Each CIC designs a battleplan that's emailed out to the side CO's and disemminated to the registered squads. Having a walk-on squad who doesn't have time to plan will result in a group of people not knowing what the overall plan is.
Plus, many don't know the rules of FSO and no accountability if walk-on squad players break the rules.
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Bringing in no squad affiliated sticks could be intresting if the registered squads were on one side and the no squads are the enemy. It would be a CM and a bouncer nightmare. However, if figured out it could be fun. Of course rules would be broken by the no squaddies thus adding to the uncertainity.
Isn't war hell?
Advertising this setup in the MAs would be the way to get info out.
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Maybe loosen the restriction on walk-ons.(no newbs perhaps, or they must be in a AH squad to participate even if their squad does not.)) I know this is a touchy subject for some people, but I have seen people leave FSO before they have a chance to enjoy it. Let them join a squad who is hurting for pilots. I have seen squads up with less than the minimum. If you are looking to fill more seats, maybe lowering the bar wouldn't hurt.
:noid
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Maybe loosen the restriction on walk-ons
I'd vote no.
I have seen people leave FSO before they have a chance to enjoy it. Let them join a squad who is hurting for pilots. I have seen squads up with less than the minimum. If you are looking to fill more seats, maybe lowering the bar wouldn't hurt.
Maybe take a minute of your time to explain things to them, and then invite them to next week's event as a guest in your squad. There's enough going on prior to fields opening and we don't need to add to the confusion by educating a new player 10 minutes before takeoff.
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Lately I've been wondering about the FSO's, our last mission was pure suicide - we had no escorts and tasked with bombing a town - being through FSO a few dozen times its known as suicide. We knew it, we still flew the mission and were slaughtered 5 minutes after we dropped, It made me wonder if there's anything that can be done to improve the assigning of squadrons to targets/missions.
I'm not knocking the CO's of each side, heck the Dunkirk FSO - i ran into Stukas on more then one run without escorts - whether it was poor planning or the escorts got caught up - I really felt bad for those having to do suicide runs without at least some sort of enjoyment coming from it.
Problem is not the suicide mission in itself - its the 2 hour flight on a one way mission - Granted in the MA you can do this and re-up after a 5 minute flight, however in FSO were talking hours.
I have no answer myself and before the flame bots come on - I am just pointing out its possible something to look into, maybe a way to re-write some of the missions, because if a new guy comes to FSO and gets a suicide mission like this, he could possibly not want to rejoin FSO again.
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I lean towards the walk-on issue, though understand the problems this creates.
I was Axis XO for Battle Over Germany, with primary responsibility of handling walk-ons. We had plenty and almost all of the problems were the results of walk-ons not being committed to the mission and screwing around. I get that.
On the flip side I am a member of Loose Deuce. We are a great squad with half our members in Europe. FSO is 3AM for them so half of our squad is out, the other half has some interest but not enough for a full squad. We could likely fill 3-6 spots each Friday though tough to make a hard committment when we are an MA squad, not a FSO squad. This means we have recruited to meet the demans of MA, not FSO.
Maybe an allowance for each FSO squad to add 2-4 walk-ons each frame. I know I would make two or three FSOs a month. And I prefer the organized battle to the MA cluster but...
Just a thought.
Boo
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In response to what you are saying Boo; there are several squadrons in the FSO groups that have members who are FSO only. That makes it easier for them to participate in their MA squadrons full time; especially in cases where the MA squadron members have little to no interest in the FSO at all. In this case you aren't tied to the MA squadron if you want to take part in FSO's away from your main group.
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Lately I've been wondering about the FSO's, our last mission was pure suicide - we had no escorts and tasked with bombing a town - being through FSO a few dozen times its known as suicide. We knew it, we still flew the mission and were slaughtered 5 minutes after we dropped, It made me wonder if there's anything that can be done to improve the assigning of squadrons to targets/missions.
I'm not knocking the CO's of each side, heck the Dunkirk FSO - i ran into Stukas on more then one run without escorts - whether it was poor planning or the escorts got caught up - I really felt bad for those having to do suicide runs without at least some sort of enjoyment coming from it.
Problem is not the suicide mission in itself - its the 2 hour flight on a one way mission - Granted in the MA you can do this and re-up after a 5 minute flight, however in FSO were talking hours.
I have no answer myself and before the flame bots come on - I am just pointing out its possible something to look into, maybe a way to re-write some of the missions, because if a new guy comes to FSO and gets a suicide mission like this, he could possibly not want to rejoin FSO again.
I just need to correct this post, because its flat out incorrect.
Your squad and another were tasked with a bombing mission (JABO) in P-47D40's. I assigned a total of 11-16 (commitment numbers) in the bombing part of your flight groups mission. I also assigned a squadron of Typhoons to provide escort for you guys (16-21 fighters) again commitment numbers).
Your squad was assigned to be the group leader for the green flight group (composed of the above mentioned 3 squadrons). To say that I did not assign escorts to your mission is flat out wrong. If your squad did not coordinate with the fighters, I am sorry that you were slaughtered. I assigned an appropriate number of fighters to escort your flight.
<S>
Edgar
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As to suggesting events.... Every FSO CM (especially the admins) read this forum. As CM's we quietly listen to everyone's opinion. As proof, note Warloc's comment ... He runs FSO and he reads everything. As to numbers, I wasn't worried about them.. squads rotate into and out of FSO... It's what we do... We look for the most fun... As to the frustration that FSO causes? I am there with you my brothers. When I joined the FSO team, and first realized there was a little man behind the green curtain...The first thing I did was apologize to the CMs in my squad (Repomanx and Mystic2). You plan as best you can... but FSO throws almost every plan (and player) into the fan. As to perdue's quote about living a little history, You have no idea.... I have seen Admins argue over how many types of planes were available at any given time.... I have seen events where one Admin replies to another and says: "You know Spit 8's never flew out of England." They Didn't? How the heck would you know that? Admins are weird people and they dwell on the smallest details... Still, the staff want to know about things we can do to make the event better. All is well... I was just fishing for suggestions. We always try to play to the crowd ... <S> FSO Players. 341 players on a Friday night? Yep, it always amazes me. :rock
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I just need to correct this post, because its flat out incorrect.
Your squad and another were tasked with a bombing mission (JABO) in P-47D40's. I assigned a total of 11-16 (commitment numbers) in the bombing part of your flight groups mission. I also assigned a squadron of Typhoons to provide escort for you guys (16-21 fighters) again commitment numbers).
Your squad was assigned to be the group leader for the green flight group (composed of the above mentioned 3 squadrons). To say that I did not assign escorts to your mission is flat out wrong. If your squad did not coordinate with the fighters, I am sorry that you were slaughtered. I assigned an appropriate number of fighters to escort your flight.
<S>
Edgar
Ouch that's a terrible blunder, I had no clue we even had escorts - I took off with another squad of 47D40's and that was it, I assumed a typical NOE slaughter and treated it as just that. Horrible communication and blunder on my part and I take full blame for it.
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Snake:
The FSO is great and even if it stays just as is it is still the greatest part of AHII IHO.
I say keep adding in the "extra" events as they can be added or as they make sense like the GV battle this scenario. Doesn't count and is added fun for all that want to participate and or get shot down early. The BBB's (Big Boat Battle's) were a HOOT!!!
The FSO is probably running out of "new" scenario's at this point I would think. Kudos to those of you that can continue to think up new ones as the FSO has lasted longer than WWII at this point :salute
I'd like to see more "What if scenario's". Perhaps time based like 1946 scenario's or 1939 scenario's. Different maps and terrain in new locations where WWII aerial battles weren't fought. Shift technologies like giving the AXIS aircraft carriers or heavy bombers or jets to the ALLIES ect.
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...or jets to the ALLIES ect.
Maybe a neat way to do this without stretching history too far would be to have a few jets STOLEN by the allies at the start of the frame. They MUST lift from a specific base, and they MUST land at a specific friendly base in order to get them out of Germany safely. Would be pretty hard for them to hide since everyone knows where they are lifting from, and everyone knows where they have to land. The allies will have to defend that field to make sure they can make it. If you made it 234's they are stealing, then the axis could scramble a flight of 262's just to hunt them down.
It wouldnt be the whole scenario... just an add in for one frame or two. Still run the regular FSO scenario, just toss that in as an extra thing to do. You would still have targets to attack, and targets to defend.
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As to suggesting events.... Every FSO CM (especially the admins) read this forum. As CM's we quietly listen to everyone's opinion. As proof, note Warloc's comment ... He runs FSO and he reads everything. As to numbers, I wasn't worried about them.. squads rotate into and out of FSO... It's what we do... We look for the most fun... As to the frustration that FSO causes? I am there with you my brothers. When I joined the FSO team, and first realized there was a little man behind the green curtain...The first thing I did was apologize to the CMs in my squad (Repomanx and Mystic2). You plan as best you can... but FSO throws almost every plan (and player) into the fan. As to perdue's quote about living a little history, You have no idea.... I have seen Admins argue over how many types of planes were available at any given time.... I have seen events where one Admin replies to another and says: "You know Spit 8's never flew out of England." They Didn't? How the heck would you know that? Admins are weird people and they dwell on the smallest details... Still, the staff want to know about things we can do to make the event better. All is well... I was just fishing for suggestions. We always try to play to the crowd ... <S> FSO Players. 341 players on a Friday night? Yep, it always amazes me. :rock
Who is this SnakePlissken guy... didn't I train him?
I do remember those 500 plus FSO's. We were damn good.
<<S>> UNF
4X
Good to see Squire as FSO Team Lead
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4X!!
Good to hear from ya'
♥
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:salute 4XTCH