Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Edgar on September 28, 2011, 08:15:47 PM
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Hi AvA Staff,
Any ideas on what the next scenario might be about for the AvA?
<S>
Edgar
VMF-222
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battle of the bulge with a rolling planeset and simple objectives. planes to be chosen by the players.....Maybe. i haven't finished hashing it out yet. theres also still the possibility of changing my mind, but that depends on a particular map.
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planes to be chosen by the players
b29 :noid :t
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did i hear Jets? :noid
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.....Maybe.
there will be a list of planes to chose from. it may only have a few planes on it. i will list them, you can choose them. battle of the bulge will only involve aircraft that existed at the time in that theater, so the b29 is out.
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there will be a list of planes to chose from. it may only have a few planes on it. i will list them, you can choose them. battle of the bulge will only involve aircraft that existed at the time in that theater, so the b29 is out.
Wow, you're not talking some crazy talk about historical plane matchups on a two-sided map...are you? :noid
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that would be absurd dot, jeager would never do such a thing....
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yes the f86 will be an option! :D
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there will be a list of planes to chose from. it may only have a few planes on it. i will list them, you can choose them. battle of the bulge will only involve aircraft that existed at the time in that theater, so the b29 is out.
FW's, 109's, P51's, and P47's I believe were the Prominent US and LW Plane Sets. Obviously Im sure the Brits used Typhoon's and Mosquito's for Ground Attack. If you like, Ill do a quick check to find out.
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any opinion on no enemy icons for a week?
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any opinion on no enemy icons for a week?
The VMF-222 is good with no icons, that is what originally what attracted us to the AvA.
<S>
Edgar
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any opinion on no enemy icons for a week?
:x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
NO ICONS, WOOOOOOOOOOOT
That is a vote for no icons
:aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok
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No icons for me please. :aok
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Please serve mine over easy with no icons! :D
How about a no icon week once a month? :bolt:
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Please serve mine over easy with no icons! :D
How about a no icon week once a month? :bolt:
a good compromise might be 3 days on 3 days off.
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a good compromise might be 3 days on 3 days off.
:aok
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No icons for me please.
One week a month with no icons sounds like a good compramise to me
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Leave the icons on at the 3.0k distance on Thursday Evenings if we are voting on this issue.
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I don't expect any of you to care what I think, but I won't visit the AvA if Icons are turned off. I'm not the only one around who feels that way. So, if you are trying to attract new folks to the AvA, you might want to leave them on. If your goal is to keep new folks away, then turn them off.
Do as you like.
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if there are going to be alot of people in on a particular night, turning them back on will not be a problem. maybe ill run no icons for saturday-monday and turn them on for the rest of the week. this should appease everyone.
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no Icons that's what i loved about the AvA, not like the normal here i am arena's.
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The big bugger about no icons is the complete lack of 3d sight on a flat screen. No icons is perceived to be more realistic. Maybe it sound more realistic, but we're sitting at a computer, looking at a screen (with no strereoscopic effect) with LEDs strapped to our heads. We are not in a realistic environnement and as such, it's hard to talk about realism level without taking into account these factors. I'm no long time AVA flyer. I play AH mainly for the special events. Lately, AVA offered a special event like persistant environnement that I took some interest in. The quality of the fights to be had in there is way above MA standard(whatever you may think). HO happens very rarely(that's part of the game, in a head on situation, I will 99.9% of the time not fire my guns. Yet I always expect to get a face full of lead everytime I'm looking at the business end of a gun), ganging will happen once in a while(usually when I fly into a bunch of ennemy without friendlies around), pick is not a lame kill IMO(it's my job to stay safe and out of harms way. Not the other guy's not to kill me if he catch me with my pants down and has an opportunity to down me). Undertand me, what I'm saying is, I dont mind getting killed by a superior opponent(in numbers or skills) or outwitted/outmaneuvered (and that happens a lot to me). On the other hand, getting killed because of hardware limitations and a unsighted ennemy plane is lame and no fun at all.
If you go ahead with no icon, have at it. I wont.
:salute
Please bear in mind I'm giving out my opinion on the matter at hand.
One last ride in the -4 tonight then we'll see based on what is decided...
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I don't expect any of you to care what I think, but I won't visit the AvA if Icons are turned off. I'm not the only one around who feels that way. So, if you are trying to attract new folks to the AvA, you might want to leave them on. If your goal is to keep new folks away, then turn them off.
Do as you like.
What exactly is your fear of no icons? Ill be frank, there may be a lot of new people in the arena now but the nightly numbers are the same as they were 3 months ago its just different people.
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Guys, I hear that the H2H rooms are now back up. All you silly no icon doods can head on over there and play that way if you like......
:bolt:
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still curious as to what all you icons doods fear of no icons is? no one has really come up with a good reason.
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What exactly is your fear of no icons?
I don't mind flying without icons once in a while, but there are reasons why they frustrate me often.
My eyesight sucks. My eyeglass prescriptions are something along the lines of 5.8 right eye, 7.2 left eye. Stigmatism in both. Also color blind.
I play on a mid-quality 22 inch widescreen monitor. 1680x1050 resolution.
During FSO, it is all but guaranteed I will be the last guy in my flight to see the crowd of dots we're headed into. Very occasionally I look at the right spot and see them.
I was asking one of my squaddies how he saw a dot the other day, the response was something along the lines of '32 inch display helps a lot.' I bet it does. :)
What bothers me about no icons, and in particular the guys that think they're ever so much manlier and better than people who prefer icons is, I could overcome my limitations with gear. I could buy a larger screen to play on.
Why should that be necessary? Why should the single most important part of the game (tracking the enemy) be largely dependent on either passing a physical, or the quality of your hardware?
Wiley.
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That was the most thought out answer i have ever seen to this question. :salute I play on a screen same as yours, sometimes i see them sometimes i dont thats what makes it exciting. You get icons in every other arena if you chose to play there. My frustration, and many many others, is why put icons in a room that was starting to grow with them off? The more you fly with them off the easier it gets, you figure out what to look for. It has nothing to do with thinking we ( me for certain anyway) are any better than anyone else it just adds a new level of excitement not found in other arenas.
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What exactly is your fear of no icons? Ill be frank, there may be a lot of new people in the arena now but the nightly numbers are the same as they were 3 months ago its just different people.
I don't fear it, I simply don't enjoy it. Don't make the mistake of thinking I have zero experience with no icons. Thank you for belittling my opinions by insertiing charged words like fear, as if I am trembling and quaking over the prospect of having to play without icons.
I only commented because there seemed to be a real interest by a few people to hear other opinions and thoughts on drawing people into the AvA. As a person who could possibly be drawn in, I was merely trying to give the AvA staff a glimpse of how an outsider perceives what goes on in the AvA.
Personally, I like the smaller fights for the most part.
Personally, I like not being HO'd on the first merge.
Personally, I think after the first merge, not firing when the enemy goes through your guns is stupid. All you're doing is allowing the guy to fly sloppy because he thinks he is safe in your gunsight as long as he can get his nose around. This is especially true with the guys who gravitate to spitfires, A6Ms, FM2s etc. Their idea of dogfighting is constantly turning head on in a joust fashion until they can exploit their airframes turning ability. It's silly. In a setting like the AvA, I won't fire on the first merge, after that, I won't be looking for a head on shot, but I'm sure as hell not going to give you a free pass if you pull your nose around into my gun sight.
My opinion of the AvA recently... It has potential. But there are a few too many jackwagon "regulars" who will vocally slam you on 200.
For instance, the other night I went into the AvA. I was alone. Nobody else. Rather then leave for the MA, I decided stick around and see if anyone else showed up. Was looking forward to maybe getting some 1vs1 action. Anyway, instead of sitting in the tower, I upped a fighter and flew to the nearest enemy base. It happened to be one of the southern V bases. I flew around and around. Started to get low on fuel and bored. So I deacked the base. Flew home and landed. Still alone. Upped a goon and flew troops to the V base. Had just let them go when someone else showed up in the arena. Great! Now I might get a fight! Troops took the base. I was immediately derided on 200 for "rolling undefended bases".
:bhead
I've been derided for "picking", only to have the same guy do the exact same thing to me. Then claim that he was flying as a wingman with his partner, so it was of course ok for him.
I honestly think that there is a subset of AvA regulars who really really really don't want anyone new to show up. They're probably going to get their wish in the long run.
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My charged word "fear" sure got a thought out response by you. First off dont take any of this personally as it is not directed at you personally you just like to voice your opinion as do I. Second, some of your points have merit. The people that you described negatively IMHO are the type not wanted in the AvA from the start. You still havnt answered the main question so I will put it bluntly, WHY DONT YOU LIKE NO ICONS. Give specific reasons if you can, I have and so have others. I dont like them is just an excuse if you cant back it.
My opinion of the AvA recently... It has potential. But there are a few too many jackwagon "regulars" who will vocally slam you on 200.
Id wager your "jackwagon regulars" havnt been in the arena as a regular longer than 2 months.
Personally, I like the smaller fights for the most part.
Go to MW, small fights all day long and its an established icon arena.
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Wiley made a very good point. It basically sum up what I was thinking but failed to put into words.
I could go to MW or EW or DA. But what fun is it? It's a smaller version of LW with an all country fraticide jousting match.What is fun in AVA is the planes matchups.
Besides, from what I've read, AvA is not an established no icon arena. someone in these BBS once said that no icon was in fact quite recent and covered a relatively short time span in the entire "life" of the arena.
:salute
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All are welcome in the AVA. Let's not invite folks to leave because they like the current settings in the arena, and disagree with a return to old settings in the arena.
:salute
Way
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Well said Waystin,
Their is definitely a prevailing mentality here that if you don't like it, just shut up and move on. Grumpy even went so far as to say exactly that in his last post.
"Go to MW, small fights all day long and its an established icon arena."
I have noticed it from day one in here (not that long ago), that if you don't like it, move on. The only thing is, I don't believe that this is coming from the AvA staff, it is coming from "regulars" that are either unhappy with the current setup, the current icons, or something else. In fact if you look at my request post, it was to have the ability to shut off the "All" channel so that I could de-tune the whining.
In my opinion, the AvA staff has to quit trying to govern by consensus and decide on the course that they would like to take for the arena and stick with it. If they decide no icons, some people will come, others will leave, so be it. Same goes for just the opposite. To have everything in a constant flux keeping everyone happy is no way to run things. If they decide icons on for x days and then off for x days, we will either live with it or move on, that is the way everything works in life. You cant keep everyone happy, and if you try, you are going to go crazy.
Just my 2 cents.
<S>
Edgar
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It has nothing to do with thinking we ( me for certain anyway) are any better than anyone else it just adds a new level of excitement not found in other arenas.
It does have a tendency to come across that way though, I didn't take umbrage at the word 'fear' from you mostly because your tone here and in the rest of your posts I've seen has seemed respectful. With that said, every other vocal anti-icon guy I've ever seen post about it appeared to be in a sweaty liplock with his reflection in the mirror over how much more skilled and awesome he was than the skill-less dweebs who prefer icons on. Just a general perception.
I dont like them is just an excuse if you cant back it.
No offense meant, but that statement is effectively saying 'you need and are looking for an excuse to fly with icons.' The logical extension being 'because you can't be effective without them.'
There are a few things I really don't like about no icon play. For one, it generally results in less varied fights. Way more often than not you wind up in close turnfights so the two of you can track each other. Mid-speed or high speed engagements are difficult if not impossible due to the difficulty in tracking the other plane. This artificially inflates the capabilities of the plane that turns and climbs better, because the speed demon can't utilize his advantages if he loses the opponent in the ground clutter. It virtually negates BnZ.
I will admit, there is a little bit of flavor to a 1v1 with no icons. It is somewhat fun when you've got to keep eyes on the guy constantly.
Multi-on-multi engagements practically force ganging, as generally people wind up heading toward the nearest set of tracers they can see, or toward any unfriendly they can see silhouetted against the sky. Most RL pilots I've seen mention it say it's easier to track another plane against the ground. I find the reverse in-game.
The general recipe for success in the war was get above them and kill them from above. In a no icon setting it produces nonhistoric gameplay where it's easier to keep track of people and fight from the bottom.
Wiley.
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You still havnt answered the main question so I will put it bluntly, WHY DONT YOU LIKE NO ICONS. Give specific reasons if you can, I have and so have others.
I don't like no icons because, in my opinion, the limitations of the view system and computer screens makes it harder to see and identify other aircraft then it is in real life. The way an enemy aircraft should appear is more like the way it looks when you use the full zoom function. Because the computer screen limits the field of view so dramatically, the only workable solution for the game designers is what we have now. It is someting akin to looking through the wrong end of low power binoculars. Also, because of the lack of 3D steroscopic views and the far duller color pallete then what you find in the real world, aircraft are more easily lost in the ground clutter then is realistic.
Also, I use hat views to track enemy cons, not trackIR. Put quite simply, there are blinds spots in the hat view system that wouldn't exist in real life. Icons on helps to compensate for these blind spots, making it easier to pick a con up after passing through a blind spot.
Certainly the icons are far easier to see then it was in real life, but I don't see swinging to the other extreme as a viable solution either. In light of the other drawbacks of no icons, I believe Icons on is the lesser of the two evils.
Additionally, I believe that the no icon setting also places an additional handicap on anyone new entering the arena. In a game that has such a steep learning curve, I consider it unwise to layer additional hardships on to new players in any setting, especially in an underpopulated arena that wishes to draw new players. Doing so only serves to widen the gap between the guys who are accustomed to no icons and those who are not.
I also believe that in the AvA there is an unseemly predatory attitude among an unusually large percentage of the "regulars", evidenced by the abnormally high number of players flying with tracers off. There is really only one reason to turn tracers off, to maximize the failings of your opponets SA to get an easier kill. If the AvA was really all about the fights, there wouldn't be so many folks out for the sneak attack that tracers off allows. Tracers off is a tactic of the picker/ganger, and in the MA at least, the first merge HOer. Not the guy looking for a pulse pounding nail biting 1vs1. Turning the icons off only feeds and further enables these score the kill at any cost players. I find it hypocritical of some folks who preach about the clean 1vs1, but turn their tracers off. I am looking for a better fight so when I shoot at you, you'll know it.
I'm perfectly willing to discuss the merit of short icons. I honestly think that there may be a good balance that is possible. I thought that the 3k icons were perfectly reasonable. If it was possible, I would even entertain Aircraft Type Only Icons, without the range information. But I don't know if that can be done or not. Maybe an item for the wish list.
Satisfied? Are those reasons good enough for you?
I also agree with what Puppet said, the primary draw to the AvA is the Axis vs Allied semi-historical plane matchups.
As for the "jackwagon" regulars having not been around for longer then two months... That might be true (or not), but then where are all of the older regulars? Can you maintain the viability of an Arena without drawing new players? Of course not. I guess, you'd be happier if everyone newer then 2 months simply went back to the MA rather then welcoming them and folding the players into the group? There really is an hostile vibe both in the AvA and here in the forums against anyone who hasn't been flying in the AvA for x number of months.
If you don't see it, then I suggest you are to close to the situation.
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Icons will not be messed with. sorry to those of you looking forward to it, but its 3k for both.
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Well said Waystin,
Their is definitely a prevailing mentality here that if you don't like it, just shut up and move on. Grumpy even went so far as to say exactly that in his last post.
I said no such thing, in fact I have been told that if i dont like the settings that I should leave. What erks me is the group of new people come in complain about the icons being off so they get turned back on and until today, after being asked point blank why, they actually give a detailed reason.
Its obvious im in the minority here as far as people that are willing to speak up for what they want and im :bhead doing it so enough said. I will say this, if this was the setup a year ago or so when i started coming in the AvA i would have walked right back out because no matter how you sugar coat it with your reasoning its just another MA minded arena with the icons on, you just get a 2 front war with so called even matched planes..... Hats off to the AvA staff for their efforts. :cheers:
I guess I should just let it go, but since i pay $15 i feel i have the right to voice my opinion as everyone else does, I just tend to be more vocal than most. I can promise you I speak for a number of players that just dont feel like taking the time or feel it will do any good to say anything, I am not alone.
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In my opinion, the AvA staff has to quit trying to govern by consensus and decide on the course that they would like to take for the arena and stick with it. If they decide no icons, some people will come, others will leave, so be it. Same goes for just the opposite. To have everything in a constant flux keeping everyone happy is no way to run things. If they decide icons on for x days and then off for x days, we will either live with it or move on, that is the way everything works in life. You cant keep everyone happy, and if you try, you are going to go crazy.
Just my 2 cents.
<S>
Edgar
Very well said yourself Edgar. :salute
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Tracers off is a tactic of the picker/ganger, and in the MA at least, the first merge HOer. Not the guy looking for a pulse pounding nail biting 1vs1. Turning the icons off only feeds and further enables these score the kill at any cost players.
...um...there may be some exceptions to this. I doubt anyone would classify me, for example, as a "score the kill at any cost" type. And it's pretty rare that I am able to sneak up on anyone. More: turning tracers off makes a B&Z attack much more difficult, because you aren't able to open fire from way out and still get hits like you can with tracers (unless you have a supernatural sense of your bullet path).
Turn your argument around. You're asking that the no-tracers people should compensate for someone else's poor SA by turning their tracers on. Hey, if someone is fixated on another target, he has no particular claim to a "break break" warning from his enemy.
Possibly you have not spent much time flying with tracers off? Where it makes the biggest difference is when you're engaged with someone and he's watching you to see when you're going to shoot. He no longer gets that clue that he should break. And it forces you to fly to historic ranges before you start shooting; none of this 600 yard stuff.
- oldman
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due to the fact that I'm working right now, I cant setup the arena til this afternoon. have fun with it in the mean time and carry on until then.