Author Topic: Next Scenario  (Read 2132 times)

Offline waystin2

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #30 on: September 30, 2011, 03:28:46 PM »
All are welcome in the AVA.  Let's not invite folks to leave because they like the current settings in the arena, and disagree with a return to old settings in the arena.

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Offline Edgar

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2011, 03:43:06 PM »
Well said Waystin,

Their is definitely a prevailing mentality here that if you don't like it, just shut up and move on. Grumpy even went so far as to say exactly that in his last post.


"Go to MW, small fights all day long and its an established icon arena."

I have noticed it from day one in here (not that long ago), that if you don't like it, move on. The only thing is, I don't believe that this is coming from the AvA staff, it is coming from "regulars" that are either unhappy with the current setup, the current icons, or something else. In fact if you look at my request post, it was to have the ability to shut off the "All" channel so that I could de-tune the whining.

In my opinion, the AvA staff has to quit trying to govern by consensus and decide on the course that they would like to take for the arena and stick with it. If they decide no icons, some people will come, others will leave, so be it. Same goes for just the opposite. To have everything in a constant flux keeping everyone happy is no way to run things. If they decide icons on for x days and then off for x days, we will either live with it or move on, that is the way everything works in life. You cant keep everyone happy, and if you try, you are going to go crazy.

Just my 2 cents.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2011, 03:47:30 PM »
It has nothing to do with thinking we ( me for certain anyway) are any better than anyone else it just adds a new level of excitement not found in other arenas. 

It does have a tendency to come across that way though, I didn't take umbrage at the word 'fear' from you mostly because your tone here and in the rest of your posts I've seen has seemed respectful.  With that said, every other vocal anti-icon guy I've ever seen post about it appeared to be in a sweaty liplock with his reflection in the mirror over how much more skilled and awesome he was than the skill-less dweebs who prefer icons on.  Just a general perception.

I dont like them is just an excuse if you cant back it.

No offense meant, but that statement is effectively saying 'you need and are looking for an excuse to fly with icons.'  The logical extension being 'because you can't be effective without them.'

There are a few things I really don't like about no icon play.  For one, it generally results in less varied fights.  Way more often than not you wind up in close turnfights so the two of you can track each other.  Mid-speed or high speed engagements are difficult if not impossible due to the difficulty in tracking the other plane.  This artificially inflates the capabilities of the plane that turns and climbs better, because the speed demon can't utilize his advantages if he loses the opponent in the ground clutter.  It virtually negates BnZ.

I will admit, there is a little bit of flavor to a 1v1 with no icons.  It is somewhat fun when you've got to keep eyes on the guy constantly.

Multi-on-multi engagements practically force ganging, as generally people wind up heading toward the nearest set of tracers they can see, or toward any unfriendly they can see silhouetted against the sky.  Most RL pilots I've seen mention it say it's easier to track another plane against the ground.  I find the reverse in-game.

The general recipe for success in the war was get above them and kill them from above.  In a no icon setting it produces nonhistoric gameplay where it's easier to keep track of people and fight from the bottom.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

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Offline PFactorDave

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2011, 04:01:01 PM »
You still havnt answered the main question so I will put it bluntly, WHY DONT YOU LIKE NO ICONS.  Give specific reasons if you can, I have and so have others.

I don't like no icons because, in my opinion, the limitations of the view system and computer screens makes it harder to see and identify other aircraft then it is in real life.  The way an enemy aircraft should appear is more like the way it looks when you use the full zoom function. Because the computer screen limits the field of view so dramatically, the only workable solution for the game designers is what we have now.  It is someting akin to looking through the wrong end of low power binoculars.  Also, because of the lack of 3D steroscopic views and the far duller color pallete then what you find in the real world, aircraft are more easily lost in the ground clutter then is realistic.  

Also, I use hat views to track enemy cons, not trackIR.  Put quite simply, there are blinds spots in the hat view system that wouldn't exist in real life.  Icons on helps to compensate for these blind spots, making it easier to pick a con up after passing through a blind spot.

Certainly the icons are far easier to see then it was in real life, but I don't see swinging to the other extreme as a viable solution either.  In light of the other drawbacks of no icons, I believe Icons on is the lesser of the two evils.  

Additionally, I believe that the no icon setting also places an additional handicap on anyone new entering the arena.  In a game that has such a steep learning curve, I consider it unwise to layer additional hardships on to new players in any setting, especially in an underpopulated arena that wishes to draw new players.   Doing so only serves to widen the gap between the guys who are accustomed to no icons and those who are not.

I also believe that in the AvA there is an unseemly predatory attitude among an unusually large percentage of the "regulars", evidenced by the abnormally high number of players flying with tracers off.  There is really only one reason to turn tracers off, to maximize the failings of your opponets SA to get an easier kill.  If the AvA was really all about the fights, there wouldn't be so many folks out for the sneak attack that tracers off allows.  Tracers off is a tactic of the picker/ganger, and in the MA at least, the first merge HOer.  Not the guy looking for a pulse pounding nail biting 1vs1.   Turning the icons off only feeds and further enables these score the kill at any cost players.  I find it hypocritical of some folks who preach about the clean 1vs1, but turn their tracers off.  I am looking for a better fight so when I shoot at you, you'll know it.

I'm perfectly willing to discuss the merit of short icons.  I honestly think that there may be a good balance that is possible.  I thought that the 3k icons were perfectly reasonable.  If it was possible, I would even entertain Aircraft Type Only Icons, without the range information.  But I don't know if that can be done or not.  Maybe an item for the wish list.

Satisfied?  Are those reasons good enough for you?

I also agree with what Puppet said, the primary draw to the AvA is the Axis vs Allied semi-historical plane matchups.  

As for the "jackwagon" regulars having not been around for longer then two months...  That might be true (or not), but then where are all of the older regulars?  Can you maintain the viability of an Arena without drawing new players?  Of course not.  I guess, you'd be happier if everyone newer then 2 months simply went back to the MA rather then welcoming them and folding the players into the group?  There really is an hostile vibe both in the AvA and here in the forums against anyone who hasn't been flying in the AvA for x number of months.

If you don't see it, then I suggest you are to close to the situation.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 04:38:43 PM by PFactorDave »

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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2011, 07:29:03 PM »
Icons will not be messed with. sorry to those of you looking forward to it, but its 3k for both.

Offline grumpy37

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2011, 07:55:12 PM »
Well said Waystin,

Their is definitely a prevailing mentality here that if you don't like it, just shut up and move on. Grumpy even went so far as to say exactly that in his last post.





I said no such thing, in fact I have been told that if i dont like the settings that I should leave.    What erks me is the group of new people come in complain about the icons being off so they get turned back on and until today, after being asked point blank why, they actually give a detailed reason. 

Its obvious im in the minority here as far as people that are willing to speak up for what they want and im  :bhead doing it so enough said.  I will say this, if this was the setup a year ago or so when i started coming in the AvA i would have walked right back out because no matter how you sugar coat it with your reasoning its just another MA minded arena with the icons on, you just get a 2 front war with so called even matched planes.....  Hats off to the AvA staff for their efforts.   :cheers:

I guess I should just let it go, but since i pay $15 i feel i have the right to voice my opinion as everyone else does, I just tend to be more vocal than most.  I can promise  you I speak for a number of players that just dont feel like taking the time or feel it will do any good to say anything, I am not alone. 


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Offline TheBug

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2011, 08:10:15 PM »

In my opinion, the AvA staff has to quit trying to govern by consensus and decide on the course that they would like to take for the arena and stick with it. If they decide no icons, some people will come, others will leave, so be it. Same goes for just the opposite. To have everything in a constant flux keeping everyone happy is no way to run things. If they decide icons on for x days and then off for x days, we will either live with it or move on, that is the way everything works in life. You cant keep everyone happy, and if you try, you are going to go crazy.

Just my 2 cents.
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Edgar



Very well said yourself Edgar.  :salute
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2011, 12:49:05 AM »
Tracers off is a tactic of the picker/ganger, and in the MA at least, the first merge HOer.  Not the guy looking for a pulse pounding nail biting 1vs1.   Turning the icons off only feeds and further enables these score the kill at any cost players.  


...um...there may be some exceptions to this.  I doubt anyone would classify me, for example, as a "score the kill at any cost" type.  And it's pretty rare that I am able to sneak up on anyone.  More:  turning tracers off makes a B&Z attack much more difficult, because you aren't able to open fire from way out and still get hits like you can with tracers (unless you have a supernatural sense of your bullet path).

Turn your argument around.  You're asking that the no-tracers people should compensate for someone else's poor SA by turning their tracers on.  Hey, if someone is fixated on another target, he has no particular claim to a "break break" warning from his enemy.

Possibly you have not spent much time flying with tracers off?  Where it makes the biggest difference is when you're engaged with someone and he's watching you to see when you're going to shoot.  He no longer gets that clue that he should break.  And it forces you to fly to historic ranges before you start shooting; none of this 600 yard stuff.

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Offline captain1ma

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Re: Next Scenario
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2011, 08:08:30 AM »
due to the fact that I'm working right now, I cant setup the arena til this afternoon. have fun with it in the mean time and carry on until then.