Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Brooke on October 01, 2011, 02:59:29 PM
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The next scenario is here.
(http://ahevents.org/images/stories/scenarios_images/201111_EnemyCoastAhead/rules_pics/banner_promo.png)
It's 1943, and the Royal Air Force and Luftwaffe are slugging it out for dominance over the English Channel.
Gone are the days of the Battle of Britain, with the RAF hanging on by a thread. The RAF is now stronger than ever and is taking the fight to the Luftwaffe. The Luftwaffe has built back up strongly on the Channel Front and is again hitting hard -- with raids to the English coast and airfields full of fighters eager for battle.
It is the Spitfires, Typhoons, Mosquitoes, and Mitchells of the RAF vs. the Bf 109's, FW 190's, and Ju 88's of the Luftwaffe in air-to-air combat, level bombing, dive bombing, escort, intercept, and anti-shipping attacks.
Please join us for this next stage in the classic battle between the RAF and the Luftwaffe.
Show-Up Time for this scenario is 3 pm Eastern Time in the Special Events II arena.
Nov 12: practice frame -- please all attend
Nov 19: frame 1 (two-week gap follows, skipping Thanksgiving weekend)
Dec 3: frame 2
Dec 10: frame 3
Dec 17: frame 4
Registration not yet open (but soon).
Rules writeup (not yet final version, though) is available at:
http://ahevents.org/scenario-current-or-next.html
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I'll start pre-flighting my Mossie.
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Nice work Brooke Fencer and all the scenario team. :salute
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I'll start pre-flighting my Mossie.
This is a perfect scenario for the Mossie.
You other Mossie lovers out there -- if you don't fly in this one, we are going to confiscate your "I heart Mossies" bumper stickers and kick you out of the Mossie club. ;)
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:x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
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Woohoo! :banana:
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Woot! It took a lot of restraint to keep from begging for info on the scenario forum.
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:cheers:
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I expect the 109 guys to be out in force for this one. No excuses. I know it's not K4s but G6s can do the job :)
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Indeed. If you are a fan of the German planes, no excuses not being in this one -- it is one of the classic matchups between the RAF and LW.
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Looks good Im down. :salute
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I noticed the squad assignments add up to 76 per side. Are you really expecting such low numbers? How will walk on players be handled?
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I noticed the squad assignments add up to 76 per side. Are you really expecting such low numbers? How will walk on players be handled?
We want to make sure this one fills up. Walkons will be allowed and used to even up the sides.
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I noticed the squad assignments add up to 76 per side. Are you really expecting such low numbers? How will walk on players be handled?
We want to make sure this one fills up. Walkons will be allowed and used to even up the sides.
It's also not as difficult to start with a low number and increase it in a balanced manner, whereas if you start with a massive number available and one of the gigantic squads decides to take the same ride, if you try to slim it down it requires moving players around...which is never a fun thing to do, and a lot of them will get huffy(not an insult, I do it all the time myself :D) and decide not to show up as they feel like their position has been forcefully taken away.
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Im there :salute
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Damn. Mid-afternoon. Well, maybe next time.
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I know it's not K4s but G6s can do the job :)
against spit9s? not unless the spits can be dragged down under 22k. will be interesting to see the aircraft lineup.
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against spit9s? not unless the spits can be dragged down under 22k. will be interesting to see the aircraft lineup.
sigh... :bhead
from the rules writeup:
A strong downwind will be enabled at 26k ft.
B-25's and Ju 88's may not fly higher than 20k ft.
As for the spit9 v 109g6... decent matchup that gets real interesting in the 12-20k alt range, with both trading speed/climb and wep advantages. The bigger variable will be if the G6's are allowed/forced gondies.
I'd say from experience, spits vs their contemporary 109 opponent is usually a decent matchup. Let's not forget "tactics" either - yanno? :noid
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i'll be there in a 190 :)
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A5s all the way. :rock
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against spit9s? not unless the spits can be dragged down under 22k. will be interesting to see the aircraft lineup.
It's as even a fight as is possible as the airwar was in 43 over France. If you grumble about this match up, there is no match up that will please you :)
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It's as even a fight as is possible as the airwar was in 43 over France. If you grumble about this match up, there is no match up that will please you :)
QFT
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We have Spit IX's, Spit V's, Typhoons, Mossies, and B-25C's vs. Bf 109G-6's, FW 190A-5's, FW 190F-8's, and Ju 88's.
We heavily bias the plane set to putting in what aircraft were actually there. Even if we didn't, there are no scenarios that have the same plane set on each side, so there are going to be disparities. However, in scenarios, it depends more on the mix of aircraft, the strategies and tactics of the sides, and that the fights are often many on many than how any one particular plane stacks up vs. any other one particular plane. In this case, the team feels it's close enough (consider Zeros vs. P-40's; Bf 109G-6's and FW 190A's vs. P-51's, P-47's, and P-38's at 34k alt; La-5's vs. 109K-4's; etc. -- and those work out fine in a scenario environment).
Also, I keep in mind that, in real life, folks flew these aircraft and did well in them -- so it can be done.
Me, I will probably be in a FW 190A-5 and have been flying them in the MA for practice. :aok
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We have Spit IX's, Spit V's, Typhoons, Mossies, and B-25C's vs. Bf 109G-6's, FW 190A-5's, FW 190F-8's, and Ju 88's.
We heavily bias the plane set to putting in what aircraft were actually there. Even if we didn't, there are no scenarios that have the same plane set on each side, so there are going to be disparities. However, in scenarios, it depends more on the mix of aircraft, the strategies and tactics of the sides, and that the fights are often many on many than how any one particular plane stacks up vs. any other one particular plane. In this case, the team feels it's close enough (consider Zeros vs. P-40's; Bf 109G-6's and FW 190A's vs. P-51's, P-47's, and P-38's at 34k alt; La-5's vs. 109K-4's; etc. -- and those work out fine in a scenario environment).
Also, I keep in mind that, in real life, folks flew these aircraft and did well in them -- so it can be done.
Me, I will probably be in a FW 190A-5 and have been flying them in the MA for practice. :aok
Well said. The scenario environment is a different beast. Often times, I find aircraft that may not do so well in the MA, shine in Scenarios when flown to their strengths, and vice versa.
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sigh... :bhead
from the rules writeup:
A strong downwind will be enabled at 26k ft.
B-25's and Ju 88's may not fly higher than 20k ft.
As for the spit9 v 109g6... decent matchup that gets real interesting in the 12-20k alt range, with both trading speed/climb and wep advantages. The bigger variable will be if the G6's are allowed/forced gondies.
I'd say from experience, spits vs their contemporary 109 opponent is usually a decent matchup. Let's not forget "tactics" either - yanno? :noid
bite me shane. true the real interesting fights are going to be 12-20k, but i know what typically happens in these special events, the alt limits get pushed as far as they can and at 25k the ah version of the 109g6 starts wallowing like a pig in mud where the spit9 is turning into a thoroughbred. anyone who has spent any real time in ah spits knows it too.
Also, I keep in mind that, in real life, folks flew these aircraft and did well in them -- so it can be done.
no offense brooke the cm's do a great job putting events together and i realize it's as even as can be had within ah, but real life 109 pilots were also known to turn tail and run before a fight could occur when they believed they could not win.
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Replace some of the G6's with G2's and I would be much more tempted, right now G6's vs Spit9's at 25k, ehh..
:salute
BigRat
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It seems that a few are stressing the spit vs 109 match-up. Has those individuals looked at the the frame objectives and map? Depending on the two oppossing CO's battleplans per individual frame, how often will these two planes out of the entire planeset actually meet at the same altitude and in equal numbers?
It will happen but the fluidity of war will create unique situations that many will call the glorious battles of RAF vs LW. Only the victors of those unique situations will say that. :devil
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About as even as it can get IMO, the typh is a crap altitude planes a5's should pound them while the g6's have there handful with spit9's :)
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bite me shane. true the real interesting fights are going to be 12-20k, but i know what typically happens in these special events, the alt limits get pushed as far as they can and at 25k the ah version of the 109g6 starts wallowing like a pig in mud where the spit9 is turning into a thoroughbred. anyone who has spent any real time in ah spits knows it too.
no offense brooke the cm's do a great job putting events together and i realize it's as even as can be had within ah, but real life 109 pilots were also known to turn tail and run before a fight could occur when they believed they could not win.
So building in an edge for the 109 pilots is the only way they'll play? Did you read the write up at all? If flying at the top alt limit is all you've got in mind, you are going to miss most of the fight.
In an ideal world, we'd have a Spitfire LFIX since that's what the 11 Group Spits were flying in 43 as the fights were in the 15-25K range and the LFIX performed best. We'd also have the Spit XII and Spit VII to fly escort and high cover. But we don't so going with the FIX was appropriate and since the G6 appears to be the main 109 of the time.....
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Folks, we talked it over and put in the following changes.
-- Two 109 groups can fly g-6's or g-2's, whichever they prefer. It is not unreasonable to think that there were at least some g-2's still around.
-- Downwind was moved to 24k. Originally, we had thought 25k is about right, but the arena allows winds only at 2k increments. We initially picked 26k, but 24k is just as good historically.
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In addition to scenarios be a many-on-many, mixed-plane environment (which changes things a lot compared to a 1-on-1 duel on the deck at equal alts), there are other aspects in scenarios that have a big impact on fights: what the bombers and attack aircraft do, what alts they fly at, and what the weather is like.
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Also, if any of you flew in Battle Over Germany, you know that the fighting was decently balanced -- even in the frames that had 109G's vs. P-51's, P-47's, and P-38's flying around at 34k. P-51's, P-47's, and P-38's at 34k have a very large performance advantage over 109G's, yet we did fine.
Why was that? Because it was a many-on-many environment, at various altitudes (a fight at 34k stays at 34k for about half a circle, and bombers had to be attacked and defended at lower alts), in a mixed-plane environment (where FW 190A-8's were not the match for 34k P-51's, but were a terror to bombers -- we even wished we could trade D-9's for A-8's).
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So, with all of that said --
LW enthusiasts, you have no excuses! ;)
I'm in FW 190A-5's with DrBone and IrishOne, and Joach1m (I'm guessing with a handle like "Joach1m") is in the 109's of JG 27 "Afrika". The legacy of the Richthofen, Grunherz, Oesau, Schlageter, and Afrika shall carry through!
Onward, Knights of the Sky! :aok
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Brooke, which 109 groups will have G2s?
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Well the outdated Spit Vbs of 91 Squadron won't complain about where they have to fight...but they'll be there! :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/91SpitVb.jpg)
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I'll be there in a G6 most likely. Spitfires stand no chance against the elite Luftwaffe at any alt.
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I'll be there in a G6 most likely. Spitfires stand no chance against the elite Luftwaffe at any alt.
Good man!
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I'll be there in a G6 most likely. Spitfires stand no chance against the elite Luftwaffe at any alt.
:lol that made a funny start to my day :aok
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Brooke, which 109 groups will have G2s?
II/JG2 and II/JG 11.
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sounds great, and at a time accessible to euro timezone pilots too! (http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/boogie.gif)
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So, with all of that said --
LW enthusiasts, you have no excuses! ;)
I'm in FW 190A-5's with DrBone and IrishOne, and Joach1m (I'm guessing with a handle like "Joach1m") is in the 109's of JG 27 "Afrika". The legacy of the Richthofen, Grunherz, Oesau, Schlageter, and Afrika shall carry through!
Onward, Knights of the Sky! :aok
Yum Yum. Me gonna kill some A5s.... :banana:
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Yum Yum. Me gonna kill some A5s.... :banana:
Klingan, what are you talking about? You are supposed to be flying for the LW! :old:
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We have both of our CO's.
Waystin2 is RAF CO, and 4440 is the LW CO.
Way to go, guys! Thank you very much for stepping forward, and a big <S> to each of you.
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Hope to make a couple frames of this, saturday afternoons are bad for me though :(
As to the whole 109 - Spit thing, scenario engagements tend to be a bit different from your average MA furball..
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I wish that there were a time that worked for everyone. Unfortunately, whatever we pick, it is not going to be a good time for at least some folks. 3 pm Eastern fits the US and Europe, but Australians and Japanese have a very difficult time. Evening time in the US fits the US and Australia/Japan better, but then leaves out Europe. So, we've moved things around from time to time, with this one at 3 pm Eastern.
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Good Luck LW maybe I will take a few sicks days to come in as a Walkon
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Good Luck LW maybe I will take a few sicks days to come in as a Walkon
I'll write you a note, Mols! :aok
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G2's, now you have me thinking about another Gruppen leader spot again :aok
:salute
BigRat
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That would be unfortunate Big R, as I"d have to decide whether to fly allies or axis then ya sod!!
Wurzel
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Wurzel you're more then welcome to join up with me again, if your a glutton for punishment like last time :lol
:salute
BigRat
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That would be unfortunate Big R, as I"d have to decide whether to fly allies or axis then ya sod!!
Wurzel
Axis, axis, axis! :)
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Wurzel you're more then welcome to join up with me again, if your a glutton for punishment like last time :lol
:salute
BigRat
Lol, yep, it was hell being shot down by my GL more than the enemy :lol
Waiting to find out whether we're having a squad commitment, will then be registering (when its open etc)
Brooke, your a bad man too (in the nicest possible way). Hope you and yours are doing well my friend.
Wurz
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Brooke, your a bad man too (in the nicest possible way). Hope you and yours are doing well my friend.
Wurz
I'm not bad, my FW 190 is just painted that way. ;)
Doing well (other than sleep lately), but very happy nonetheless. Thank you, and please convey Traci and my regards to Mrs. Wurz! :aok
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A picture of the Bf 109G-2 from the RAF Museum, London. (Brooke and SF3 indicating thusly, where I met Wurz as well -- was awesome.)
Note Mossie behind the G-2 in firing range. Don't get any ideas Mossie pilots -- in Enemy Coast Ahead, it will be the other way around! :aok
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/RAFMuseum/011_DSC5262.JPG)
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Also -- here is the last Typhoon in existence in the world (also at RAF Museum, London). A lovely, marvelous airplane. But I will show it no mercy in my FW 190A-5.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/RAFMuseum/026_DSC5369.JPG)
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And a picture with Wurzel in it (on the right), so that he doesn't feel left out. It does have a Spitfire in it -- it's a Mk. I, but I hear that the Mk. I was the only true Spitfire, with Mk IX's especially being abominations of the true Spitfire essence.
(http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/RAFMuseum/017_DSC5304.JPG)
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Clearly you don't get it Brooke. You get in Spitfires, not stand in front of em...although you are in front of the guns, which might be appropriate after all :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Spitdweeb.jpg)
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Is that really you in one? If so, I am envious. Very cool! We, your readers, demand to hear the story of how you got to sit in one! :aok
In this scenario, though, I definitely will be working to see only the back of them. :)
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Typical, got me eyes closed as usual lol.....
Guppy, interested in hearing how you got to sit in the Spit as well.
(Yes folks, I really am that ugly in real life too)
Wurz
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Typical, got me eyes closed as usual lol.....
Guppy, interested in hearing how you got to sit in the Spit as well.
(Yes folks, I really am that ugly in real life too)
Wurz
Any excuse to post these photos. usually around once a year here :) Spit XII research was my first venture into the WW2 history bit beyond just reading. Spent much of the 80s tracking down pilots and info in those take forever, snail mail days. Part of the result was helping to get together the first reunion of 41 Squadron at RAF Colitishall in 1985. I got to meet many of my Spit XII fighter pilot hero's. Yeah the real deal :) The Battle of Britain Flight flew in their B of B vet Spitfire II that was painted in 41 squadron markings. Lots of photos taken of the old Spit drivers around the Mk II. Two of them then approached the pilot, and said they'd like me to be able to get in the cockpit. The B of B Flight pilot obliged and I got in. Later the group photo was taken of all the old Spit drivers and I was asked to be in the picture. The only non WW2 Spit pilot in the group. Yeah just a bit proud. Outside of my wife and kids, the accomplishment I am most proud of. Sadly most of them are gone now.
Yeah I have a Spitfire bias :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall-1.jpg)
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Any excuse to post these photos. usually around once a year here :) Spit XII research was my first venture into the WW2 history bit beyond just reading. Spent much of the 80s tracking down pilots and info in those take forever, snail mail days. Part of the result was helping to get together the first reunion of 41 Squadron at RAF Colitishall in 1985. I got to meet many of my Spit XII fighter pilot hero's. Yeah the real deal :) The Battle of Britain Flight flew in their B of B vet Spitfire II that was painted in 41 squadron markings. Lots of photos taken of the old Spit drivers around the Mk II. Two of them then approached the pilot, and said they'd like me to be able to get in the cockpit. The B of B Flight pilot obliged and I got in. Later the group photo was taken of all the old Spit drivers and I was asked to be in the picture. The only non WW2 Spit pilot in the group. Yeah just a bit proud. Outside of my wife and kids, the accomplishment I am most proud of. Sadly most of them are gone now.
Yeah I have a Spitfire bias :)
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/Coltishall-1.jpg)
man.......that is friggin awesome!!! very very cool story :aok
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:lol that made a funny start to my day :aok
wait until you reach the loo...
:neener:
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I'll write you a note, Mols! :aok
Brooke
Make it out to Kermit (yes My Boss's Real name is Kermit lol)
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Dear Mr. Kermit:
I am Molsman's doctor, and I am writing to say that I am strongly recommending that he not go into work on the following dates: Nov 12, Nov 19, Dec 3, Dec 10, and Dec 17. I am recommending this for his health and that of any co-workers or customers who might be exposed to him on those dates.
Out of his desire to make sure exposure to others is minimized, Molsman has given me permission to disclose his condition to you. He is unfortunately suffering from a condition known as "oportet luftwaffe". It is a little-known, yet serious, condition, which can be highly contagious. Maximal chances of transmission with this condition occur for approximately 4 hours at a time, with a weekly periodicity. In his case, based on date of initial manifestation of symptoms, the dates above correspond to these periods, and I do recommend that he stay isolated at least during the hours of 3-7 pm Eastern time on those days.
After approximately Dec 17, the condition will have run its course, and Molsman should be able to return to work and normal active life. We have given him a series of exercises to perform, especially on the above dates, that usually effects a full recovery in those suffering from oportet luftwaffe. We have seen nothing so far to indicate that such treatment would not be fully effective in his case.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
With best regards,
Dr. Brooke
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Guppy -- excellent story. Thanks for posting that! <S>
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Dear Mr. Kermit:
I am Molsman's doctor, and I am writing to say that I am strongly recommending that he not go into work on the following dates: Nov 12, Nov 19, Dec 3, Dec 10, and Dec 17. I am recommending this for his health and that of any co-workers or customers who might be exposed to him on those dates.
Out of his desire to make sure exposure to others is minimized, Molsman has given me permission to disclose his condition to you. He is unfortunately suffering from a condition known as "oportet luftwaffe". It is a little-known, yet serious, condition, which can be highly contagious. Maximal chances of transmission with this condition occur for approximately 4 hours at a time, with a weekly periodicity. In his case, based on date of initial manifestation of symptoms, the dates above correspond to these periods, and I do recommend that he stay isolated at least during the hours of 3-7 pm Eastern time on those days.
After approximately Dec 17, the condition will have run its course, and Molsman should be able to return to work and normal active life. We have given him a series of exercises to perform, especially on the above dates, that usually effects a full recovery in those suffering from oportet luftwaffe. We have seen nothing so far to indicate that such treatment would not be fully effective in his case.
Thank you for your understanding in this matter.
With best regards,
Dr. Brooke
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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ETO...ehh :bolt:
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OK I give, how do you LW types actually KILL anything in those 109's?!? I've become the assist king since I started flying 'em.
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Persistance, kinda like a wooddonut :D, get real close so all your friends will killshoot themselves if they try to hit your target, then "wala" no more assists, and a bunch of ticked off squaddies :banana:
:salute
BigRat
PS wooddonut was actually a bird that pecks on wood :headscratch:, Look mom, a wooddonut :lol, silly word filter :furious Is a squirrel, a woodbagel?
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OK I give, how do you LW types actually KILL anything in those 109's?!? I've become the assist king since I started flying 'em.
I'm telling ya G6 is a beast.
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I used to fly mainly US aircraft with wing-mounted guns, and I sucked in 109's until I got a feel for the aim in 109's with everything in the nose. Once you do that, you'll do fine in a 109, I think.
The way I finally got comfortable in one was to go to furball lake in the Duelling Arena a lot until it started to click.
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OK I give, how do you LW types actually KILL anything in those 109's?!? I've become the assist king since I started flying 'em.
Have to go through a style transformation to be good in 109s.
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Best advise I can give (being the worst pilot ingame obviously) get in close, then get in closer and only take high percentage shots.
I even almost landed a kill once that way :D
Wurz
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I will open registration a week from today (Oct. 14) around 7 pm Pacific US time.
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Depending on the scheduling, I will volunteer to fly a Mossie. Not sure I can make it due to work though.
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Depending on the scheduling, I will volunteer to fly a Mossie. Not sure I can make it due to work though.
You must explain the Mossie to the people at work, after which, I'm sure that they will understand that the Mossie must take precedence. :)
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Reading over the rules and I saw the disabled weapon's list. Rockets should be disabled on the Mossie as well. They were not used until 1944 to the best of my knowledge.
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Rockets should indeed be disabled on Mossies and F-8's. Next version of writeup is posted. (Includes CO names, too.)