Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Huskey39 on October 22, 2011, 10:12:51 AM
-
I have a question, when I fly and see everyone doing these fluid aerobatics with the grace of a ballet dancer. I stare with amazement, because when I try these there is no grace, just the stall warning. I input movements to do a barrel roll and always I will end up with the stall warning and my aircraft shuddering. Is there anyway to set the joystick, when you pull back on the stick it will not go past normal operating range of the elevator and stall. Seems like I have alot of play with the range of my control surfaces move. I hope this has made sense.
Thanks,
Greg
Echo39
-
Husky you can scale each axis individually. There is a thread titled axis scaling just a little farther down in this section; http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,321701.0.html
The other thing I would suggest is to practice making small smooth movements of your controls.
Also you might want to hook up with a trainer in the TA.
-
Please have a look at this:
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gBxCShr1_g/ US Navy Air Corps Training Film for the Barrel Roll.]
-
Please have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gBxCShr1_g
-
adjust your stick scaling, dead band and damping for all 3 axis as sik1 suggested. make sure you don't have the stall limiter turned on (probably don't but...).
once you get your stick adjusted, then practice, practice, practice. learn to ride the "blackout tunnel" (people call it different things) in high speed maneuvers, then learn throttle, flap and rudder control in low speed maneuvers. a lot of what you see other guys doing is through a combination of throttle, rudder and depending on the plane flaps.
i'm nowhere near as good as most of the guys you will run into but, the videos this guy created for rise of flight have helped me get better at some maneuvers.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS (http://www.youtube.com/user/Requiem10NS)
it's ww1 rag planes but the principles of performing the maneuvers are the same.
-
I have a question, when I fly and see everyone doing these fluid aerobatics with the grace of a ballet dancer. I stare with amazement, because when I try these there is no grace, just the stall warning. I input movements to do a barrel roll and always I will end up with the stall warning and my aircraft shuddering. Is there anyway to set the joystick, when you pull back on the stick it will not go past normal operating range of the elevator and stall. Seems like I have alot of play with the range of my control surfaces move. I hope this has made sense.
Thanks,
Greg
Echo39
You're likely just moving your stick too far. Scaling can help but it isn't required. Think about the steering wheel in a car. You don't limit the wheel rotation to drive properly, you just control how much you move it according to your speed and how much you want to turn.
Whenever you point your aircraft nose up you will slow down and you should anticipate easing up on the stick.
Practicing aerobatics is a great way to learn to control your aircraft. :joystick:
-
and besides the people you are seeing doing these moves are probably stalling out and riding the stall....when I fight my plane shakes and screams at me, I ride the black out as much as needed....
these are not real planes you dont have to worry about what you would worry about in a real plane...have fun man learn the way the planes stall and ride that sukker its a blast :rock
-
Thanks everyone for the help, I will try these suggestions!
-
Thanks everyone for the help, I will try these suggestions!
The scaling they mention won't do anything like what you've asked for. All it does is adjust how much you need to move the stick to get the control surface deflection you're already getting.
There isn't a way to adjust how much deflection your surfaces will be capable of. Full-up is still full up, even with a scaled stick.
It sounds like you're making a common mistake people make in the beginning, which is trying to do things when you're too slow to be able to accomplish them. Otherwise, you may be giving too much stick, too quickly, which will give you the same result, or throw you into a snap.
If you're "ham-fisted", scaling may help, because it essentially makes the stick "mushy" in the initial throws. There are multiple theories at work when it comes to scaling. I for one don't use it, because I prefer to have a fine level of control that isn't there if I scale.
-
Not really on topic but think of this Echo39, you do not want to make your aircraft less maneuverable than your enemy's. All that does is give them an advantage. On second thought, it is on topic as stall limiter was mentioned and that reduces your maneuverability.
-
The scaling they mention won't do anything like what you've asked for. All it does is adjust how much you need to move the stick to get the control surface deflection you're already getting.
There isn't a way to adjust how much deflection your surfaces will be capable of. Full-up is still full up, even with a scaled stick.
It sounds like you're making a common mistake people make in the beginning, which is trying to do things when you're too slow to be able to accomplish them. Otherwise, you may be giving too much stick, too quickly, which will give you the same result, or throw you into a snap.
If you're "ham-fisted", scaling may help, because it essentially makes the stick "mushy" in the initial throws. There are multiple theories at work when it comes to scaling. I for one don't use it, because I prefer to have a fine level of control that isn't there if I scale.
Full Up is Full up only if your last slider at the far right is adjusted all the way to the top of its bar, if people are not scaling to where the sliders eventualy top out on the right side and actually have their scaling lower like 60 % , 70% 80%..... then they would only get those percentages at Full Up ie... 60 / 70 / 80 % of full deflection
I have seen where some had their scalings at 0 on the left and topping out at 50 to 60 on the right side, that was basically only giving them at best 1/2 deflection of what they could have been obtaining......
I agree totally about using scaling to help with people that are all hamfist or stick maulers, etc.... but they still need it to gradually increase to the absolute max/ top while going from left to right.....
like mtnman, I prefer to have all mine set at the very top 100% across so when I move my stick 10% deflection, I am getting 10% deflection, not some devised ratio of less than 100% of the 10% deflection column ( this applies for each column left to right )
Also, TRIM does not help one "TURN TIGHTER" ........... TRIMMING a plane out for whatever speed they are currently going only helps that individual to have less strain on the stick when turning, it "lightens the load" on the required stick pulling for that instant.....
if I am flying my spitfire at 200 mph IAS and I am trimmed for level flight at 300 MPH , and my oponent is scaled to 200 mph IAS and turning............ he is not going to out turn me because of this, he simply will have to pull on the stick lesser than I would have to.
now some will argue that, but it is what it is and nothing more......... edit: well their could be other small descrepencies that might come into play here, like if me having my scaling set like I do 100% across the top and the other guy has a very long sweeping curve from bottom left to top right........... then who knows who actually has to pull the hardest or maintain such a position...... this is no different than I might have 24% fuel load but my opponent has 33% fuel load or vice versa..... to many variables really.....
it also is ok to use combat trim, if that is your preference......... I personally do not like using combat trim and find that in certian circumstances Cpmbat Trim is more of a henderence than it is helpful, especially once you are slow enough to be using your flaps...... because Combat Trim does not take the Flaps in to consideration, combat Trim is always trimming the plane for level flight at whatever speed you are currently at ( ie... it is always trimming to keep the Nose up or level with the horizon )
their are some though who fly using combat trim, and are very good game players and put up some awesome fights........... but that is what they have become acustomed to using.........
- Manual Trim set points / speeds ,
- using combat Trim,
- constantly adjusting trim
all 3 are personal preference, however I strongly advise to not get all caught up in doing the last one I listed..... their are some that really do "constantly trim their plane" and that sure is a whole lot of wasted effort in my book...
hope this helps
TC
-
Full Up is Full up only if your last slider at the far right is adjusted all the way to the top of its bar, if people are not scaling to where the sliders eventualy top out on the right side and actually have their scaling lower like 60 % , 70% 80%..... then they would only get those percentages at Full Up ie... 60 / 70 / 80 % of full deflection
I have seen where some had their scalings at 0 on the left and topping out at 50 to 60 on the right side, that was basically only giving them at best 1/2 deflection of what they could have been obtaining......
Good point TC. That's one I haven't bumped into yet, but I can see how it would mess someone up.
-
Definately do any stick adjustments after you have flown for a bit because some sticks are a bit "spikey" the first few times you pull them through the various axis.
If you're adjusting scaling on a fresh boot, you might end up with settings that behave far differently after playing for a bit.
-
You can turn on "stall limiter" which may help but it will put you at a disadvantage as compared to other people that have it turned off. Why? Because it won't let you push a plane with stall limiter on as hard as you can with it turned off.
There is a steep learning curve here and just like with a real plane you can't simply move the controls to the limit of their movement and expect it to be ok. And using the already mentioned car example you wouldn't turn your steering wheel all the way to its lock while doing 60mph on the highway. Best case your tires would lose traction and you'd slide into something. Worst case your tires would NOT lose traction and you'd flip the car. Simply put doing so would be a really bad idea.
Same thing here. You need to learn to use slower, graceful movements with your stick to find the limits to the planes acrobatic abilities without pushing it beyond what it can handle. This takes some time to develop and you'll learn to use your ears at slower speeds to fine-tune your movement based on what the stall horn is telling you. You'll learn to use your eyes at faster speeds to fine-tune your movement based on what the "blackout tunnel" is telling you. If you have a force feedback stick you can even feel this happen. Don't expect to be able to just yank the stick back all the way and do a loop-de-loop... it doesn't even work that way in real life.
Once you learn not to 'panic' when it comes to stick movements you'll find that you can push your plane a lot further than you ever thought possible...
-
I use a lot of rudder dampening, which probably isn't your problem, but that's a recommendation. I also dampen pitch a bit, but roll has zero dampening. Dampening pitch helps me: (1) not be as ham-fisted in pitch sensitive aircraft or near the stall, and (2) helps my gunnery as small inputs equal smaller movements. YMMV, just my preference.
One very strong recommendation from me would be to go to the training arena, and see if you can practice flying formation with some of the other pilots or a trainer. Flying form in AH2, if you can master it, will give you very good stick and rudder skills in-game.
-
The rudder is interesting in AH because it moves slower than you can move the pedals. In a sense it's dampened already. You can quickly kick full rudder and release your pedals before the rudder moves more than halfway. It's useful to watch the rudder as you deflect it and get used to moving your pedals to match the rudder movement. This gives you a better sense of the rudder position and makes you more likely to get full deflection when kicking full rudder.
-
Well, one of the reason I use dampening on the rudder is to keep small movements of my feet from creating rudder input. If I wiggle my feet on the pedals, they used to create some input that I didn't want.
-
I think it's better to use deadband for that Stoney. That way you get 0 output instead of dampened output.
-
I think it's better to use deadband for that Stoney. That way you get 0 output instead of dampened output.
Whoops! You're right. Deadband on rudder pedals, not dampening.