Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rogwar on October 30, 2011, 12:01:51 AM
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I thought it was a photoshop but it's not. It's real and from Canada.
(http://www.huntandtell.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/bigbadwolf.jpg)
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:O
link
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:O :O :O
What ink said. Give us a link!!
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http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=368450&forum=36 (http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?threadid=368450&forum=36)
I suppose, but those paws are "bear size".....
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if that guy is only 4' its a normal sized wolf...... :headscratch:
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Is that from the new Twilight movie?
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I'm glad it's dead.
Wolves were run off for a reason... some people seem to forget.
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I'm glad it's dead.
Wolves were run off for a reason... some people seem to forget.
1 reason....ignorance :aok
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1 reason....ignorance :aok
Yep, you are full of that on this issue.
Don't start with me Ink.
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Yep, you are full of that on this issue.
Don't start with me Ink.
Or what?
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Or what?
Or I will smack the hell out of him with deer kill facts from an area predominately run by hunting tourism.
Wolves are crap and were run off to feed people. This is a fact and will never change.
Now piss off.
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Damn wolves eating "our" deer.
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Damn wolves eating "our" deer.
Yes Puppet, they are "our" deer.
When you end up at the top of the food chain, the world is yours.
Of course diptards like you wouldn't know anything about proper stewardship. Except Flench, I miss him.
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Yes Puppet, they are "our" deer.
When you end up at the top of the food chain, the world is yours.
Of course diptards like you wouldn't know anything about proper stewardship. Except Flench, I miss him.
Oh zing, diptard? You got me there. Go back to bed Nancy, it's obvious you need a nap.
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It's obvious you are out of your league.
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Or I will smack the hell out of him with deer kill facts from an area predominately run by hunting tourism.
Wolves are crap and were run off to feed people. This is a fact and will never change.
Now piss off.
:headscratch:
wolves were killed off because ignorant people thought they were a threat to them......you seriously gonna argue and say wolves are bad :rofl
same type of people put a bounty 0n the bald eagle :rolleyes:
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It's obvious you are out of your league.
Yes, as I don't support killing the wolf to the point of extinction I'm totally out of my league and a bad steward of the land.
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:headscratch:
wolves were killed off because ignorant people thought they were a threat to them......you seriously gonna argue and say wolves are bad :rofl
same type of people put a bounty 0n the bald eagle :rolleyes:
The Bald Eagle reference proves that you know jack.
Yes, as I don't support killing the wolf to the point of extinction I'm totally out of my league and a bad steward of the land.
You are just trying to aggravate...
Here are the numbers.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
The DNR says that ~17-29k is a small impact, but I'm here to tell you that the herd has been reduced significantly.
EDITED for 29k
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The Bald Eagle reference proves that you know jack.
You are just trying to aggravate...
Here are the numbers.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
The DNR says that ~17-20k is a small impact, but I'm here to tell you that the herd has been reduced significantly.
:rofl :rofl
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:rofl :rofl
Laugh all you want city boy.
The fact is that I'm sitting on the largest source of fresh water and wild game in the country.
You can take your predators and shove them up your ignorant arse.
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No bigger predator than man. Ink you got room for Melvin up there?
Going fishing, wish me luck! Don't worry I'll kill any Northerns I get to make sure they don't eat the panfish.
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No bigger predator than man.
This is true. This is why we have to accept the responsibility and keep a proper balance.
In the U.P. the wolf population has exploded to the point that I don't see anymore deer herds at 0345. Back in the day I had to slow down for the hooved rodents.
We also have a ton of coyote, pine marten, and cats (mostly bobcat, but I saw a pic of a cougar with a tracking collar). These are slaughtering the hare and partridge.
What you fellows don't realize is that, as the boss mofo's, it's up to us to keep the game bountiful.
WE ARE THE PREDATORS.
Let the doggies and kitties live elsewhere.
EDIT: It's not like we're slashing and burning the habitat.
Another thing. We are overrun with wild turkeys. They are excellent predator food, but they also stomp on partridge nests.
The balance is getting lopsided towards the hippy animals. This is bad.
EDIT2: Of course, you dorks could try to tell me otherwise, without any first-hand knowledge of course.
EDIT3: When I catch Northern pike I feed them to the eagles. Or I just stab them and let their brothers feast. I've pulled up hammer handles that were destroyed by big daddies, so yeah, I have no problem eviscerating a nard.
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Laugh all you want city boy.
The fact is that I'm sitting on the largest source of fresh water and wild game in the country.
You can take your predators and shove them up your ignorant arse.
:rofl
someones afraid of the big bad wolf......... :rofl
the only ignorant one posting is you :aok :aok
i gotta ask......you afraid of bats also?
or snakes.......let me guess, you think piranhas are evil........
it is people like you who have no problem killing something,thinking you are better, your human so that gives you some kind of right.....or makes you feel all big and bad, yet as soon as you are in a real threat situation, first thing you do is pick up the phone and call for help.....
get a clue.....those wolves have far more right to those deer then you could ever have......
the fact that you are human, should push you to make sure those that cant defend themselves....such as wolves.....have a guaranteed life of being unmolested by ignorance and persecution.
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:rofl
someones afraid of the big bad wolf......... :rofl
the only ignorant one posting is you :aok :aok
i gotta ask......you afraid of bats also?
or snakes.......let me guess, you think piranhas are evil........
it is people like you who have no problem killing something,thinking you are better, your human so that gives you some kind of right.....or makes you feel all big and bad, yet as soon as you are in a real threat situation, first thing you do is pick up the phone and call for help.....
get a clue.....those wolves have far more right to those deer then you could ever have......
the fact that you are human, should push you to make sure those that cant defend themselves....such as wolves.....have a guaranteed life of being unmolested by ignorance and persecution.
I love bats, they eat mosquitoes.
I love snakes, they eat ticks.
Never saw a piranha, got no beef with them.
However, I do have a beef with humans that will put animals first.
EDIT: Wolves can't defend themselves... :huh :lol I respect you ink, but that is dumb as hell.
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I love bats, they eat mosquitoes.
I love snakes, they eat ticks.
Never saw a piranha, got no beef with them.
However, I do have a beef with humans that will put animals first.
see now, you totally don't get it......and you wont as long as you think you 'own' the world.
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see now, you totally don't get it......and you wont as long as you think you 'own' the world.
No Sir, you don't "get it", and you won't until you depend upon the land to feed your children.
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No Sir, you don't "get it", and you won't until you depend upon the land to feed your children.
that don't cut it sorry...humans are to blame for the loss of game,not wolves.
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Already have a small red wolfs here, but most call them a Coyote. That big thing in the photo could cause some damage. Although the game and wild life don't say so, Mountain lions run in the wild around here.
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that don't cut it sorry...humans are to blame for the loss of game,not wolves.
I'm not going to get anywhere with you.
P.M. me for my phone # and I'll talk this story all day long.
Hell, come on up to fish camp next month and I'll show it to you in person.
Free room, food and drinks if you ink my dog's portrait on my shoulder.
:salute
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Hemmingway quoted by Adrien Brody in "Predators"
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
I used to hunt deer and duck when I was in my early twenties but after having worked as a bail bondsman/ bounty hunter in New Orleans, I can say that once I started hunting people for money, hunting animals seemed to be easy. Deer can be lured to a spot with corn or salt and good decoys work well on ducks. People on the other hand.... well let's just say they're a little smarter about being lured in. And they fight back.
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Hemmingway quoted by Adrien Brody in "Predators"
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
I used to hunt deer and duck when I was in my early twenties but after having worked as a bail bondsman/ bounty hunter in New Orleans, I can say that once I started hunting people for money, hunting animals seemed to be easy. Deer can be lured to a spot with corn or salt and good decoys work well on ducks. People on the other hand.... well let's just say they're a little smarter about being lured in. And they fight back.
We make fun of guys that kill deer "with an apple in their mouths".
Stalking is where it's at.
Becoming one with the wind...
EDIT: That's why we are at the top of the food chain.
EDIT2: "Harvesting" and "hunting" are two different things.
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I'm not going to get anywhere with you.
P.M. me for my phone # and I'll talk this story all day long.
Hell, come on up to fish camp next month and I'll show it to you in person.
Free room, food and drinks if you ink my dog's portrait on my shoulder.
:salute
:D
no i am stubborn, i love animals, don't get me wrong i have no issue with hunting for food, or to directly save a human life, take for instance that scum that let out all his tigers and lions....i understand the need to put those animals down, i just hated that they had to.
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Check out EDIT2
Seriously, the predator situation is heavy up here.
I'm not a jerk, killer. It's just the way it is.
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Hemmingway quoted by Adrien Brody in "Predators"
Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter.
I used to hunt deer and duck when I was in my early twenties but after having worked as a bail bondsman/ bounty hunter in New Orleans, I can say that once I started hunting people for money, hunting animals seemed to be easy. Deer can be lured to a spot with corn or salt and good decoys work well on ducks. People on the other hand.... well let's just say they're a little smarter about being lured in. And they fight back.
You have won Super Bowl tickets!!, they will show up to collect. Same thing.
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ok, ill get us somewhat back on track here.
what the hell did the people feeding that wolf give him?!?! i want some of that for my cat...he could use it.
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Bacon
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I'm not into the tone of this debate. As for points of discussion...
Wolves are like a gang of Crips or Bloods. Voracious predators that decimate the population of all other animals. Where you have wolves other populations are thinned down to basic replenishment levels, no more. A simple fact is there are currently more deer, elk and antelope then at any time ever. With man as manager these animal thrive. With wolf as manager, decimated.
It is pretty to have wolves but with a massive tradeoff.
Boo
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It is pretty to have wolves but with a massive tradeoff.
Bingo.
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You have won Super Bowl tickets!!, they will show up to collect. Same thing.
When I was working for a bond agency, we had 6 months to get them back in court or back in jail. The first 4 months we tried to get them to come into the office, walk over to court, and get another date. The last 2 months we actively hunted them, going to their G/Fs house, their job (if they had one), and just generally trying to catch them wherever we could. They knew we were looking for them to put back in jail, so anything that sounded to good to be true to them they avoided like it was a trap (which it was). I'm not saying we caught everybody we set after, but we had a pretty good percentage.
So saying they won Superbowl Tickets probably wouldn't work as well as for us as it does for the police.
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When I was working for a bond agency, we had 6 months to get them back in court or back in jail. The first 4 months we tried to get them to come into the office, walk over to court, and get another date. The last 2 months we actively hunted them, going to their G/Fs house, their job (if they had one), and just generally trying to catch them wherever we could. They knew we were looking for them to put back in jail, so anything that sounded to good to be true to them they avoided like it was a trap (which it was). I'm not saying we caught everybody we set after, but we had a pretty good percentage.
So saying they won Superbowl Tickets probably wouldn't work as well as for us as it does for the police.
Did you ever go DTBH and have your big boobed woman scream at them until they gave up from the annoying screaming?
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Don't think is was actually super bowl tickets, just only SEC tickets. They funneled them into a room where it was 10 vs 1 and they left peacefully. One guy did ask.."I get no tickets"?.
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Did you ever go DTBH and have your big boobed woman scream at them until they gave up from the annoying screaming?
Anybody who shows up to nab a wanted fugitive with mace and paintball guns is just asking to get shot. I think those "reality" shows are scripted for TV ratings and nothing else.
By the way, at the time I carried a .357 and a bad attitude. :D
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By the way, at the time I carried a .357 and a bad attitude. :D
Atta boy... :aok
I had a copper nab me off the job once. Friggin embarrassing. :lol
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Yes Puppet, they are "our" deer.
When you end up at the top of the food chain, the world is yours.
Of course diptards like you wouldn't know anything about proper stewardship. Except Flench, I miss him.
is everyone where you live as ignorant as you? before your european redneck ancestors crossed the creek, spread like a disease and ravaged the land, everything you claim ownership to existed in harmony. humans didn't attempt to posesses everything they could see.
anyone who talks about eradicating an animal species hasn't got a single clue about "proper stewardship". the wildlife doesn't belong to you or anyone you will ever meet.
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is everyone where you live as ignorant as you? before your european redneck ancestors crossed the creek, spread like a disease and ravaged the land, everything you claim ownership to existed in harmony. humans didn't attempt to posesses everything they could see.
anyone who talks about eradicating an animal species hasn't got a single clue about "proper stewardship". the wildlife doesn't belong to you or anyone you will ever meet.
:aok im not very good with words.....thats what i was trying to say unsuccessfully of course.
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Honestly I was just sort of winding you up earlier because you were Mr. Grumpy, but after this....
EDIT3: When I catch Northern pike I feed them to the eagles. Or I just stab them and let their brothers feast. I've pulled up hammer handles that were destroyed by big daddies, so yeah, I have no problem eviscerating a nard.
You can take your "stewardship" and blow it out your arse. I have a pretty simple philosophy, If I'm going to eat it(or it's going to eat me) kill it, if not let it be. Sure some fish end up incidental kills and then the turtles feast, but to kill something just to kill it doesn't jive with me.
Anyways, as to the original pic - I say that guys a fisherman, he's obviously holding the wolf out toward the camera to make it look bigger, in fact I think it's a shi-tzu with long hair!
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You can read more about the pic here...
http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2703611/gonew/1/The_Truth_About_the_Big_Bad_Wo#UNREAD
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This thread took a Sharp turn in the wrong direction :noid
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You can take your "stewardship" and blow it out your arse. I have a pretty simple philosophy, If I'm going to eat it(or it's going to eat me) kill it, if not let it be. Sure some fish end up incidental kills and then the turtles feast, but to kill something just to kill it doesn't jive with me.
Northern Pike can decimate a fish population. I don't advocate trying to eliminate them as a species, but I can tell you that killing the slimey bastages that you catch isn't going to put much of a dent in the population.
On a side note, Melvin, made me smile when I read your post. My grandfather used to call them hammer handles too. I hadn't heard that in awhile.
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Wolves had a net possitive affect on Yellowstone. They are magnificent animals.
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I have always been told if I see a wolf or coyote shoot it.
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It seems like this is a case of camera angles. I figure wolves get big, but at 150-170 lbs even, I think that dude is a rather small man. Kinda like the small hands guy on the Burger King commercials :lol
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anyone who talks about eradicating an animal species hasn't got a single clue about "proper stewardship". the wildlife doesn't belong to you or anyone you will ever meet.
Please show me were I advocated "eradicating" any species.
I think that I made it clear that I have no problem with the predators, as long as they don't try to compete with me at the dinner table.
I will murder the crap out of any animal that tries to steal food from my family. Humans included.
Gyrene is a cheese head that thinks he saw a coyote once. :lol
You can take your "stewardship" and blow it out your arse...
to kill something just to kill it doesn't jive with me.
You don't understand that Northern Pike are as thick as thieves around here. Nothing goes to waste, as I said, the eagles or the big nards eat well.
I don't break any laws. Most lakes around here have no size limit on Northern. I'll make fish grind with a couple, and feed the rest to the bounty.
After all, I am fishing for Walleye, Perch and Crappie. Nards are incidental fish.
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It seems like this is a case of camera angles. I figure wolves get big, but at 150-170 lbs even, I think that dude is a rather small man. Kinda like the small hands guy on the Burger King commercials :lol
I expect that it's a combination of small man and large wolf.
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i'm just getting wound up ink...i started hunting at age 10 and learned through the years to respect wildlife...as a teenager i did some needless killing for a while, coyote bounty, fur, protected species...before i fully understood the impact my actions were having on the game animals. when the words of my southern redneck father and native american friends finally sunk in, hunting became very much more enjoyable. human destruction of wildlife habitat and over hunting have caused more problems for big game hunting than 10,000 years of wolves running free across the northern hemisphere.
anyone who lives in the u.s. and claims to be "dependent" on the game animal population for anything but supplemental food, is either a blatant liar or homeless. if they're homeless, they have bigger problems than a few wolves. i haven't hunted in 15 years but i'm going to get back into it next year and thankfully i won't have to hunt with anyone ignorant enough to believe they own the animals.
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We're going through the same thing here in Wisconsin Melvin. And I do have quite a bit of first-hand experience with how predators and prey interact, as well as being a lifelong hunter living in an extremely hunting-oriented area.
This is true. This is why we have to accept the responsibility and keep a proper balance.
Ah, the "balance" idea, eh? Are you arguing for a "proper balance", or are you waiting for someone more responsible to do it? It doesn't sound like you want a balance at all. What would make up a "proper balance" for your area?
In the U.P. the wolf population has exploded to the point that I don't see anymore deer herds at 0345. Back in the day I had to slow down for the hooved rodents.
This sounds pretty normal, actually (and very similar to our situation here in WI). Most people have no real concept of how predation works. They speak of "balance", killing the weak and sick, etc... And the biologists often seem to speak in those terms as well, maybe so they can communicate with the masses? A long-term "balance" is probably unlikely. It's more likely to see swings up/down on both sides (predators/prey). With the large prey base available in northern WI and the UP, the wolves should have had it pretty easy, and would be expected to reproduce quickly due to the "unlimited" prey base. When that base dwindles, the wolves will starve and their numbers will drop, allowing the prey base to rebuild, so the process can start over again.
Of course, once the deer are gone the prey base won't be quite depleted yet... Still lots of horses, cows, dogs, cats, and garbage to feed on. That's when the real pinch will start. Wolves weren't "run off", and public safety wasn't any real concern either. The real determining factor to reducing the predator population is money. When the predators start eating our property, we thin them down. And obviously it doesn't need to be a predator eating a cow, it could be a deer or rabbit eating your corn or tomatoes. When herbivores do that we spend gobs of money and time on thinning them down too. We even see it as fun!
WE ARE THE PREDATORS.
Well, no, not so much. Most of us are far more likely to go to a "known" location where we're likely to find part of an animal that someone else killed, and then take it home to eat (fresh or frozen section at Walmart?). That's not really predation. It's not truly scavenging either, but closer to that than predation. And beyond that, we don't limit our diet enough to really be "predators". More like "omnivores" with some predatory tendencies.
Let the doggies and kitties live elsewhere.
Pure silliness there, lol! Where would you recommend? Maybe we give the animals the northern hemisphere, so they can keep a "proper balance" on their own? It sounds like you're recommending they be removed from your area, and shift the problem onto someone else?
EDIT: It's not like we're slashing and burning the habitat.
Eeks, that one's bad too. You don't seriously buy into that, do you? Are you really sheltered enough to believe that? YOUR area may still be fairly natural, but that doesn't mean "we" as a species aren't slashing and burning the habitat. Your very existence depends on it, ironically. And you pay for products that resulted from "burning and slashing" habitat somewhere else, condoning that behavior. Computer, car, house materials, refrigerator, books, bed, etc... You're part of the habitat depletion worldwide, and just happen to be fortunate enough to live in a rural area (as am I). As a result though, your habitat isn't really what it once was.
Another thing. We are overrun with wild turkeys. They are excellent predator food, but they also stomp on partridge nests.
The balance is getting lopsided towards the hippy animals. This is bad.
Yup, I agree with this, unfortunately. Our animals are managed by people who want to keep their jobs, and have lots of people to please. Their bosses want to be re-elected by those people who want to be pleased.
EDIT2: Of course, you dorks could try to tell me otherwise, without any first-hand knowledge of course.
That, sadly is the argument too many hunters use. They fail to realize that this is a poor argument that's almost guaranteed to fail. It's confrontational and "shuts off" their listeners. It also makes them look ignorant. Poor strategy to convince those who need convincing in order for the hunter to get what they want. Hunter's can be their worst enemies at times.
What first-hand knowledge do you have? How much intimate knowledge of the U.P's 16,000+ square miles do you have? I only ask because most of the hunters I've met didn't have the tools or knowledge to be able to make anything beyond basic assumptions when it comes to habitat and wildlife, let alone get into predator/prey dynamics. Their knowledge is generally limited to what they see, based on what they remember (correctly or incorrectly) about what they saw at some time in the past.
I don't doubt that you have far fewer (and far more predator-savvy) deer now than you did in the past. We do too, here in WI.
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Follow that link I sent earlier.
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/tacconelli6/wolflarge2.jpg)
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the article posted said it was around 197lbs so it is big, and those things can stand pretty big so, maybe it is about that big to a normal guy :headscratch:
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mtnman, Some great points in there, and some points that I can flat out refute.
1+2)The "balance" idea is the whole rub. Jim Hammel was the DNR biologist that pushed (set up and made happen) the re-introduction of the Timber Wolf to the Upper Peninsula.
I believe he retired in the early 00's, after which the program went feral, and the wolf population ran amok.
3) WE ARE THE PREDATORS... that was just thrown in to let them know how I feel.
4) Let the doggies and kitties... Of course I feel that we should have a predator population. A balanced one, of course. And don't get me started on the cougar.
5) We're not slashing and burning.... Try wiping your bum with a plastic bag. Massive windfall every year. We try to not cut the hardwoods too thin, because if you do it leads to massive raspberry patches. And then Black bears. Greasy black bears. :lol
6) Yes Sir
7) How much intimate knowledge do I have?
I've trekked for days. over as much land as I could legally walk across. I had a search party sent out once... :huh (not my call) and was given up for dead on another occasion.
Back in the 80's I would never leave the farm without less than 2 dogs, because wolves and cougars were well known in Iron county.
My Uncle had a dog named (ironicly) "Wolf" he had the curly hairs on his hind legs. We watched him run down and kill a coyote one afternoon. :rock
I have stories all day...
:salute
EDIT: And I don't really care if some Least coast skin jockey thinks I'm wrong. Or some udder tugger for that matter.
EDIT2: Big dog. :cheers:
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.....
EDIT: And I don't really care if some Least coast skin jockey thinks I'm wrong. Or some udder tugger for that matter.
EDIT2: Big dog. :cheers:
:rofl :rofl
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Please show me were I advocated "eradicating" any species.
I think that I made it clear that I have no problem with the predators, as long as they don't try to compete with me at the dinner table.
I will murder the crap out of any animal that tries to steal food from my family. Humans included.
Gyrene is a cheese head that thinks he saw a coyote once. :lol
your ignorance has shined throughout your less than knowledgeable rantings in this discussion.
ridiculously ignorant statements #1 and #2
I'm glad it's dead.
Wolves were run off for a reason... some people seem to forget.
Wolves are crap and were run off to feed people. This is a fact and will never change.
Now piss off.
wolves weren't "run off", they were hunted to near extinction. they were viewed as a threat to settlers and their livestock. even now the wolf population is regarded by "social carrying capacity", the number of wolves humans are willing to tolerate.
ignorant statement #3
Yes Puppet, they are "our" deer.
When you end up at the top of the food chain, the world is yours.
Of course diptards like you wouldn't know anything about proper stewardship. Except Flench, I miss him.
neither the deer, nor the wolves or any living breathing thing born into the wild "belongs to" humans. when you get that into your skull, you will have become a better person.
and the epitomy of defining dumb...
This is true. This is why we have to accept the responsibility and keep a proper balance.
In the U.P. the wolf population has exploded to the point that I don't see anymore deer herds at 0345. Back in the day I had to slow down for the hooved rodents.
We also have a ton of coyote, pine marten, and cats (mostly bobcat, but I saw a pic of a cougar with a tracking collar). These are slaughtering the hare and partridge.
What you fellows don't realize is that, as the boss mofo's, it's up to us to keep the game bountiful.
WE ARE THE PREDATORS.
Let the doggies and kitties live elsewhere.
EDIT: It's not like we're slashing and burning the habitat.
Another thing. We are overrun with wild turkeys. They are excellent predator food, but they also stomp on partridge nests.
The balance is getting lopsided towards the hippy animals. This is bad.
EDIT2: Of course, you dorks could try to tell me otherwise, without any first-hand knowledge of course.
EDIT3: When I catch Northern pike I feed them to the eagles. Or I just stab them and let their brothers feast. I've pulled up hammer handles that were destroyed by big daddies, so yeah, I have no problem eviscerating a nard.
even the backward, uneducated hillbillies in tennessee couldn't spout anything that ridiculous if they tried. every village, town, city, industrial center in your state exists from slash and burn of natural habitat. the deer populations aren't suffering from an increase in predatory animals, they are suffering decimation at the hands of humans like yourself who think they posesses sole ownership of the wildlife. only someone totally out of touch with reality would miss the fact that allowing 1.5 million people with guns loose in the woods to hunt a deer population of ~1.5 million has a bigger impact than a 1000 wolves.
do the math, 1.5 million licensed hunters, ~1.5 million deer, 250-500,000 kills (mostly males) every year. 1000 wolves, 1 deer every 5-10 days. which one does the most damage to the deer population in a year?
and just so you don't make the mistake again, i "live" in wisconsin...i'm not a native of the state. i have lived in nearly every state and hunted in 10 states. sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...
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do the math, 1.5 million licensed hunters, ~1.5 million deer, 250-500,000 kills (mostly males)
sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...
Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.
Or your reading comprehension sucks.
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and just so you don't make the mistake again, i "live" in wisconsin...i'm not a native of the state. i have lived in nearly every state and hunted in 10 states. sitting in a tree with a weapon and tossing bait on the ground is not hunting...
:aok
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Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.
Or your reading comprehension sucks.
it seems that the problem here is you, where YOU are not understanding what he's saying.
have you even shot a deer?
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I think I said something about "harvesting" and "hunting".
But you pudwhackers wouldn't know the difference, would you?
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it seems that the problem here is you, where YOU are not understanding what he's saying.
have you even shot a deer?
Yes skorpion, I've shot a deer.
In fact, hunting and fishing was the only reason I spoke with my Dad. Then he died and I quit for 10 years. It just wasn't the same. Then my Wife and I had children, and I got back into it. Because you can give a man a fish, and feed him for a day. Or you can teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime.
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mtnman, Some great points in there, and some points that I can flat out refute.
1+2)The "balance" idea is the whole rub. Jim Hammel was the DNR biologist that pushed (set up and made happen) the re-introduction of the Timber Wolf to the Upper Peninsula.
I believe he retired in the early 00's, after which the program went feral, and the wolf population ran amok.
3) WE ARE THE PREDATORS... that was just thrown in to let them know how I feel.
4) Let the doggies and kitties... Of course I feel that we should have a predator population. A balanced one, of course. And don't get me started on the cougar.
5) We're not slashing and burning.... Try wiping your bum with a plastic bag. Massive windfall every year. We try to not cut the hardwoods too thin, because if you do it leads to massive raspberry patches. And then Black bears. Greasy black bears. :lol
6) Yes Sir
7) How much intimate knowledge do I have?
I've trekked for days. over as much land as I could legally walk across. I had a search party sent out once... :huh (not my call) and was given up for dead on another occasion.
Back in the 80's I would never leave the farm without less than 2 dogs, because wolves and cougars were well known in Iron county.
My Uncle had a dog named (ironicly) "Wolf" he had the curly hairs on his hind legs. We watched him run down and kill a coyote one afternoon. :rock
I have stories all day...
:salute
EDIT: And I don't really care if some Least coast skin jockey thinks I'm wrong. Or some udder tugger for that matter.
EDIT2: Big dog. :cheers:
Which points did you refute?
You've walked around a lot in the UP. Very cool. Does that qualify you as an expert in some way? How so?
I don't doubt you can tell a lot of stories.
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I guess I'm just sick of people sticking up for wolves when I know damn well that the population is out of hand.
Watch, they will be de-listed in this state by spring.
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nvm
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Your ignorance of the situation is glaring Gyrene.
Or your reading comprehension sucks.
actually your ignorance of the situation is glaring. i looked up the dnr numbers for 2010 from your wonderously simpleton state. the wolf population numbers i extrapolated from the estimated grey wolf population in the northern half of the state which was ~577 animals in 2009. the population in the south is smaller.
you make it way to easy to insult your intelligence melvin. you called someone else "city boy" yet you speak just like a city dweller that thinks the only wildlife he should see is a bumble bee flying around his yard or whatever he finds in a zoo. the animals were not put on the planet for your indescriminant disposal, no matter how big a man you think you are. the real hunters are the ones who value all wildlife, not just the ones they view as useful.
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no matter how big a man you think you are. the real hunters are the ones who value all wildlife, not just the ones they view as useful.
And this is the fundamental failing of your comprehension.
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Remember all the weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth on both sides when they reintroduced wolves to Yellowstone in 1995? It was a huge debate, and while I supported bringing back the wolves I also had great sympathy for the cattlemen and shepherds on the other side, my grandfather was a cattleman after all.
In the end I think it all worked out, compromises where made to allow ranchers and shepherds to protect their livestock (though at first they where far to restrictive, and had to be changed to be feasible). The wolves have spread out all over the greater Yellowstone ecosystem with a few moving as far away as Northern Utah, and AFAIK they have put no cattle or sheep folks out of business. Has it been an inconvenience for them? Sure, but much, much less of an inconvenience then bears (and lions too for sheep) which they have always dealt with.
All the predictions of the Yellowstone wolves wrecking the hunting industry in Montana and Wyoming have proven totally false. Hunting is a huge tourist attraction in Montana, guides where worried about wolves taking to many Elk. Turns out to be total BS, grizzly bears kill more elk then wolves and have always been around, and the bears have a much bigger impact since they tend to take reproducing cows and calfs, whereas the wolves are more inclined take tired old bulls which might not make it to the next hunting season anyway (because wolves hunt most actively post rut, when the elk are snowed together, the old bulls have expended their energy rutting, and the bears are hibernating). Sure the wolves now kill their share of elk too, I got to watch them do it once and it's very impressive. But elk that the wolves take are only small dent on top of an already massive dent that grizzlies and humans already make. And after all that, more elk die from natural cause every winter then from all predators combined.
Call me a tree-hugger if you want, I call myself a conservationist (because the term environmentalist has been hijacked by crazy extremists and politicians) and I believe humans have a responsibility to be good stewards of the resources we have. Since we've kill of and displaced so many natural predators, part of that stewardship must include humans hunting, and so I very much support hunting, and hunters rights. At the same time I don't think we should be exterminating any more natural predators, if humans get to hunt a few less deer and elk, so that the wolves, bears and lions get to live, that's part of that stewardship I feel.
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I was hunting once up in northern Minnesota and we had seen a yearling wandering around the area we were hunting and it was bleating. We think we may have shot its mother as we killed a doe early in the morning. Anyway the yearling was wandering around right in front of my stand just out of sight in the wood line. It didn't take long for the wolves to find the yearling a bunch of em as far as I could tell. They were whipped up in a frenzy I caught glimpse of em just running back and forth slobbering and panting. I could see why people where afraid of them back in the day. I had a gun and it was very disconcerting.
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is everyone where you live as ignorant as you? before your european redneck ancestors crossed the creek, spread like a disease and ravaged the land, everything you claim ownership to existed in harmony. humans didn't attempt to posesses everything they could see.
anyone who talks about eradicating an animal species hasn't got a single clue about "proper stewardship". the wildlife doesn't belong to you or anyone you will ever meet.
Finally!!! A voice of reason AND common sense!! :old: :aok
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I am thinking that "HUMANS" without their weapons are NOT the top of the food chain. Most of us wouldn't stand a chance against a bear or wolf with our bare hands.
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I guess I'm just sick of people sticking up for wolves when I know damn well that the population is out of hand.
Watch, they will be de-listed in this state by spring.
Um, you realize that "de-listed" does not equate to "out of hand" or "over-populated", right?
Bravo for MI if they're able to de-list them. It doesn't mean they'll automatically allow wolves to be hunted. And if they do allow wolves to be hunted, they won't be allowed to take the wolf population too low again, anyway. It goes back to that "responsibility" idea again.
What makes you so certain their population is out of hand, anyway? If it really is, have you notified the proper authorities yet? I'm sure they'll take your information at face-value. After all, you've trekked around, right?
My deer hunting has been impacted by wolves as well. I love deer hunting, and I'm seeing far fewer deer, especially in certain parts of the state. I'm just not so sure that it means the wolves are "out of hand".
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Wow, less than 1 page and melvin was already raging. Havent seen that before.
IMO, if any Animal needs a population check, its Humanity, not Wolves.
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Wow melvin, for someone whos not a "city boy" like you called INK, you sure show a lot of ignorance for the state of things.
As Mtnman said, de-listed doesn't mean out of control. We'll have to watch the wolf population for a bit to make sure it doesn't dip too low again.
If you think its your god given right to be able to take a deer every season, theres something wrong with you. If you're good enough, you'll usually get one, but even then its not a sure thing. watermelon happens man.
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I've been reading with interest.
Now let's talk about poachers :noid
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This one (shot in Edson) supposedly weighed in at 197 lbs and was atracted to (according to the manufacturer's website) Grim's Monster Mix bear bait.
So much for "hunting".
wrongway
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IMO, if any Animal needs a population check, its Humanity, not Wolves.
so your saying you want a massive human kill-off?
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so your saying you want a massive human kill-off?
Nope, but we need to stop being rabbits when it comes to breeding.
Otherwise we'll be in trouble fast. Just look at china.
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so your saying you want a massive human kill-off?
As long as I get to pick the recipients :devil
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and I'm seeing far fewer deer, especially in certain parts of the state.
They must have all moved South. The deer are what's getting out of hand down here in central Illinois. I'm seeing large groups of deer in populated areas the last few years. I don't know what it is like state wide, but I was talking to a policeman friend a few weeks ago, and the deer/car collisions are waaaaaay up in my area.
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Most dont know we have 2 kinds of wolves and coyotes and wolf coyote hybreds,then throw in some domestic dog into the coyote mix too.
The eastern red wolf was considered extinct in North America until they recently discovered that the smallest timber wolves in Algonquin park are in fact red wolves and not timber wolves.If not for protecting these animals in a small area we might have lost the red wolf completely. I dont think there are any plans to relocate or re-habitate this population like they did with Timber wolves in Yellowstone. Sadly any animal that leaves the park is fair game during hunting season but they are pretty common at this point.
We could actually use some wolves in southern Ontario,we have plenty of coyotes but they dont take many deer and we are over populated with deer. They starve in winter,get hit by cars and have become a nuisance.If fact I live in a large city and we have over 100 deer living in the city and their population just keeps growing. Several provincial parks have to preform deer culls because the populations have grown so large there isnt enough forage for them,I've seen them eating people front lawns in the early mourning's more time than I can count.
Killing anything just because isnt right in my book and justifying it with comment of feeding the eagles is utter nonsense.
:salute
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I've been reading with interest.
Now let's talk about poachers :noid
Feed them to the wolves.
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They must have all moved South. The deer are what's getting out of hand down here in central Illinois. I'm seeing large groups of deer in populated areas the last few years. I don't know what it is like state wide, but I was talking to a policeman friend a few weeks ago, and the deer/car collisions are waaaaaay up in my area.
In ohio also, Theres multiple deaths from deers running out in the middle of the roads here. My cousin himself hit a deer twice. Totaled both his cars.
Our county usually holds an extended hunting time (atleast, thats what i think they call it) due to how badly the population has gotten.
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so your saying you want a massive human kill-off?
We DO have perfectly legal mass human kill off... to the order of 40-50 million killed every year.
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My cousin himself hit a deer twice.
Dang! I've only ever hit a deer once, and I've hit quite a few! Did he turn around to hit it the second time, or just back over it?
I've even had three of them that hit me! One pooped all down the side of my wife's van, and one left it's nose-print on my gas cap cover.
I've been debating buying a motorcycle for my 40 mile commute each way to work, but the deer scare me. On a normal day I can easily see 10-15 deer near or crossing the road, and commonly see far more. In the winter it's normal to see up to 100 in the fields within the first mile driving away from my house.
That may seem like a lot of deer, but it really is a reduced number from what we had prior to our earn-a-buck program, and a few wolves here and there.
It's also common to have tall grass, corn, or brush right up close to the road, so you get little or no warning before the deer launch out in front of you. I consider myself lucky; my wife and I haven't hit more than a dozen or so combined over the last 10 years, and only a handful caused any real damage.
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Dang! I've only ever hit a deer once, and I've hit quite a few! Did he turn around to hit it the second time, or just back over it?
I've even had three of them that hit me! One pooped all down the side of my wife's van, and one left it's nose-print on my gas cap cover.
I've been debating buying a motorcycle for my 40 mile commute each way to work, but the deer scare me. On a normal day I can easily see 10-15 deer near or crossing the road, and commonly see far more. In the winter it's normal to see up to 100 in the fields within the first mile driving away from my house.
That may seem like a lot of deer, but it really is a reduced number from what we had prior to our earn-a-buck program, and a few wolves here and there.
It's also common to have tall grass, corn, or brush right up close to the road, so you get little or no warning before the deer launch out in front of you. I consider myself lucky; my wife and I haven't hit more than a dozen or so combined over the last 10 years, and only a handful caused any real damage.
I ment that he's hit 2 deers. :lol Both totaled each of his cars that he was in.
The deers get bad here in ohio. Their even all over the center of town. My house alone has scratches and dents on the outside from them.
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Or I will smack the hell out of him with deer kill facts from an area predominately run by hunting tourism.
Wolves are crap and were run off to feed people. This is a fact and will never change.
Now piss off.
Wow, you sound very tough over the internet. Apologies if I have offended you in any way. Clearly you are the real deal and in no way your run of the mill mouthy chump. :salute sir.
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Wow, you sound very tough over the internet. Apologies if I have offended you in any way. Clearly you are the real deal and in no way your run of the mill mouthy chump. :salute sir.
:rofl zingerrrrrr :ahand
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Nope, but we need to stop being rabbits when it comes to breeding.
Otherwise we'll be in trouble fast. Just look at china.
yep. you just keep on thinking that. its gonna take somewhere around 700m more people to get into that
Wow, you sound very tough over the internet. Apologies if I have offended you in any way. Clearly you are the real deal and in no way your run of the mill mouthy chump. :salute sir.
ZING!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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I ment that he's hit 2 deers. :lol Both totaled each of his cars that he was in.
The deers get bad here in ohio. Their even all over the center of town. My house alone has scratches and dents on the outside from them.
Driving around the Leavenworth, Cashmere, Wenatchee Areas and Lake Chelan areas of Washington state, Hood River Area or HWY 26 over Mt Hood in Oregon around the Apple and Pear Harvest Season is like playing Wack a Mole with Deer, they pop out all over the place during that time and always at the least expected time, i did alot of driving over Mt Hood during that time and man they was everywhere :eek:
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:rofl oh Slash you slay me man :rofl :rofl :rofl
sig material !
That was a bad arse wolf :uhoh
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nm, somebody so stupid and ignorant is just not worth it
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just don't come to wisconsin. we don't like yoopers. i'd say have i nice day, but i don't want you to. lol, you calling people ignorant. that is rich.
do i have to move back to nevada? or am i a good overly-populated city boy? :D
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.
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I shot 3 deer in the weekend if that helps :D
We got one full freezer right now!
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I shot 3 deer in the weekend if that helps :D
We got one full freezer right now!
niiice, wtg :aok
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It's obvious you are out of your league.
obviously your an idiot and forget WHO was here first So you can gtfo and cry yourself to sleep.
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I shot 3 deer in the weekend if that helps :D
We got one full freezer right now!
why you lucky sonofamotherduck!
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If you hate hitting deer, don't move to a state with antelope. Easily twice as ignorant to the rules of the road :D
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Easily twice as ignorant to the rules of the road :D
But they're only half the size so it all evens out!
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Easily twice as ignorant to the rules of the road :D
Deer and antelope don't drive... They play. I also believe that they would seldom discourage anyone from having a home in close range of their habitat, as the weather is quite nice there.
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As long as I get to pick the recipients :devil
Heck, I'll help. :D
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The deer where I live are quite tame.... or stupid, one. Tame enough that you will have to physicly move them out of the road at times :bolt:.
Oh, and interesting story: A friend of mine did an expirement to see if deer will eat bannanas. He put a feeder in the same spot every day for 3 weeks, and on the last 2 days, he mixed mashed up banna in with the food, and it wasn't touched.
It seems they also don't like the taste of butterscotch.
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feeders? FEEDERS?
I nailed one of my deer @ 330m (was on a ridge overlooking it feeding, no way to stalk in close), and the other two stalked in to 50m and shot both within seconds of each other.
Feeders are for pansies.
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feeders? FEEDERS?
I nailed one of my deer @ 330m (was on a ridge overlooking it feeding, no way to stalk in close), and the other two stalked in to 50m and shot both within seconds of each other.
Feeders are for pansies.
He may not be talking about baiting/feeding deer Vulcan. People around here actually feed deer like they do birds. With feeders in their yards...
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He may not be talking about baiting/feeding deer Vulcan. People around here actually feed deer like they do birds. With feeders in their yards...
I work with a obsessed bow hunter and he plants whole fields for deer. Heck he has folks from out of state wanting to hunt his ground. It's big business around here. Get hooked up with a locale outfitter and your're set! I would consider that baiting as the whole property is sell up for the sole purpose of havesting big deer. With all the money changing hands it's hard to convince them different. But by the same token, the deer are overpopulated here and are a hazard. I know people that are hit by deer 2&3 times a year. So whata ya do <shrugs>
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The Bald Eagle reference proves that you know jack.
You are just trying to aggravate...
Here are the numbers.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
The DNR says that ~17-29k is a small impact, but I'm here to tell you that the herd has been reduced significantly.
EDITED for 29k
2011 Deer Forecast Report - Michigan
Within the UP, deer populations continue to slowly increase following a second mild winter in a
row. Fawn production should be good, though predation may have produced some losses.
Antlered buck numbers will likely be on the rise, as the increased production of fawns in 2010
should lead to greater antlered buck numbers this year. More deer will be found in the Southern
UP near Lake Michigan, with fewer in the Northern UP near Lake Superior.
http://michigan.gov/documents/dnr/2011_Deer_Forecast_Report_365237_7.pdf
Sounds like the Deer population in the UP is healthy and growing, despite minor predation. Wolves don't seem to be destroying the population as much as you claim.
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Of course the Michigan DNR is choosing to look at the wolf/deer relationship through rose colored glasses. After all, it was their irresponsible management of the predator population that allowed the wolf numbers to rise so sharply.
I just don't understand how people can't see that the numbers don't lie.
Humans can account for ~64,000 deer. Wolves are responsible for as much as 29,000. To me that is a huge number. Throw in a moderate to severe winter (75,000-105,000 respectively) and what you have is a recipe for disaster.
Remember, the DNR issues forecasts that they are fully aware prospective hunters (read tourists) will view. Of course they will say that numbers are at least stable, if not rising. Unfortunately daily observation doesn't bear this out at all.
Or perhaps I'm just crazy. Perhaps the deer are all around me and I just can't see them due to my blind hatred for mother nature. :rolleyes:
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Or perhaps I'm just crazy. Perhaps the deer are all around me and I just can't see them due to my blind hatred for mother nature. :rolleyes:
This.
That report is made for officials to make decisions on how many licenses to distribute, how much to charge for a license, etc.
I just don't understand how people can't see that the numbers don't lie.
:bhead
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"You're ignorant!"
"No, You're ignorant!"
"NO, YOU'RE ignorant!"
"NOO, YOU'RE ignorant"
"NO! YOU'RE IGNORANT"
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That report is made for officials to make decisions on how many licenses to distribute, how much to charge for a license, etc.
So they plainly stated that there will be less deer in the norther UP. I suppose now they will have to restrict the number of hunting licenses, at least in that area.
Oh wait, of course that won't happen because the DNR is about one thing. Revenue. In fact, the DNR is pushing a law to lower the legal hunting age in the state so that we can have MORE hunters in the woods. (Not that it's a bad thing, just saying...)
Yep more hunters, more wolves and less deer.
Everything is going to be just fine. :headscratch:
"NO! YOU'RE IGNORANT"
Yes Jayhawk, I feel that I was a bit out of line yesterday. Surely I know that many of the folks here are not ignorant. However, what I was trying to get across is that they may be ignorant to the facts regarding this particular situation. Once again, I may have used a sledgehammer to drive my point home when a tack hammer would have sufficed. Sorry about that.
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Of course the Michigan DNR is choosing to look at the wolf/deer relationship through rose colored glasses. After all, it was their irresponsible management of the predator population that allowed the wolf numbers to rise so sharply.
I just don't understand how people can't see that the numbers don't lie.
Humans can account for ~64,000 deer. Wolves are responsible for as much as 29,000. To me that is a huge number. Throw in a moderate to severe winter (75,000-105,000 respectively) and what you have is a recipe for disaster.
Remember, the DNR issues forecasts that they are fully aware prospective hunters (read tourists) will view. Of course they will say that numbers are at least stable, if not rising. Unfortunately daily observation doesn't bear this out at all.
Or perhaps I'm just crazy. Perhaps the deer are all around me and I just can't see them due to my blind hatred for mother nature. :rolleyes:
let me fix that statement for you.......correct numbers don't lie. where the hell did you get 64,000 from?
The top 5 states - record season harvests since 1999 (current through 2009 - according to HuntStats.com)
#5 Alabama 535,092 (2003)
#4 Michigan 541,701 (2001)
#3 Michigan 544,895 (1999)
#2 Wisconsin 618,274 (2000)
#1 Texas 619,650 (2008)
Top 10 states average season harvest (according to HuntStats.com)
#10 Louisiana 247,800
#9 South Carolina 274,890
#8 New York 276,696
#7 Mississippi 311,676
#6 Texas 417,462
#5 Georgia 420,800
#4 Alabama 424,420
#3 Pennsylvania 452,925
#2 Wisconsin 467,808
#1 Michigan 495,303
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I got it from here.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
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I got it from here.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
ahh, i was thinking Michigan as a whole. my bad. i digress. :salute
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He may not be talking about baiting/feeding deer Vulcan. People around here actually feed deer like they do birds. With feeders in their yards...
Ahhh to fatten them up? :D
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The source you are clinging to and basing your entire argument on:
"However, compared to the deer mortality caused by other sources, including other predators, the impact of wolves on the deer population is relatively small.
A population of 687 adult wolves (estimated Michigan wolf population in 2011) could eat between 17,000 and 29,000 deer annually. Many of these deer would have died from various other causes if wolves were not present (accidents, winter weather, diseases, etc.). Between 5,000 and 8,000 deer-vehicle crashes are reported annually in the U.P., and even more deer are killed in crashes that are not reported. A severe winter can kill 30 percent (or more) of the deer population. There are about 270,000 deer in the U.P., and hunters killed about 42,000 deer in 2010."
o they plainly stated that there will be less deer in the norther UP. I suppose now they will have to restrict the number of hunting licenses, at least in that area.
No where in the article I referenced did it say there would be less deer in the UP this year. They said there were less than the other regions, but that is the norm.
In fact, it said the opposite:
"Within the UP, deer populations continue to slowly increase following a second mild winter in a row."
"Antlered buck numbers will likely be on the rise, as the increased production of fawns in 2010 should lead to greater antlered buck numbers this year."
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"However, compared to the deer mortality caused by other sources, including other predators, the impact of wolves on the deer population is relatively small.
I guess it's all in the interpretation. To me these numbers are in no way "small".
Many of these deer would have died from various other causes if wolves were not present
But they didn't die of other causes. Wolves killed them.
"Antlered buck numbers will likely be on the rise, as the increased production of fawns in 2010 should lead to greater antlered buck numbers this year."
This is speculation at it's best. We can run around in a circle all day (again). The facts, as I see it, are that the deer herd is getting smaller every year that the wolf population is left unchecked. You can take my eyewitness account and tell me to shove it, I really don't care. Just remember that there are thousands of hunters in this area that feel the way I do. To those of us that live here and see what's going on it's plain as day.
I'm sorry if I ruffled some feathers. I shall now go and watch "Dances With Wolves" as my penance. It seems, after all, that is where many of the posters here get their knowledge of predators.
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I got it from here.
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10363_10856_10905-150249--,00.html
melvin, do you actually read or just go by the numbers in the pretty colors? that report specifically states, most of the deer eaten by wolves die from other causes. cars kill at least 5-8000 deer a year just in the u.p. not even the dnr can attribute wolf kills to all the carcasses they find that have been touched by wolves. you haven't even looked at everything else that factors in to deer populations...it's just the wolves.
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How about Texas javelinas/wild pigs/feral hogs? Can we all agree they do enormous crop and environment destruction?
Probably not.....unless you live here.
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melvin, do you actually read or just go by the numbers in the pretty colors? that report specifically states, most of the deer eaten by wolves die from other causes. cars kill at least 5-8000 deer a year just in the u.p. not even the dnr can attribute wolf kills to all the carcasses they find that have been touched by wolves. you haven't even looked at everything else that factors in to deer populations...it's just the wolves.
honestly...whats the point...the guy is the know all end all of wolf intelligence.......ask him he will tell ya :rofl
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How about Texas javelinas/wild pigs/feral hogs? Can we all agree they do enormous crop and environment destruction?
Probably not.....unless you live here.
they are not indigenous...so should be eradicated :aok
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that report specifically states, most of the deer eaten by wolves die from other causes.
Do you mean this sentence?
"Also, an unknown number of deer eaten by wolves may have died from other causes, such as winter conditions or vehicle collisions."
Pure speculation. Not sure where you're getting "most" from.
How about Texas javelinas/wild pigs/feral hogs? Can we all agree they do enormous crop and environment destruction?
Probably not.....unless you live here.
And here is the rub. People from hundreds or thousands of miles away are going to tell me that what I and so many others are seeing with our own eyes is false. It's mind boggling.
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Do you mean this sentence?
"Also, an unknown number of deer eaten by wolves may have died from other causes, such as winter conditions or vehicle collisions."
Pure speculation. Not sure where you're getting "most" from.
And here is the rub. People from hundreds or thousands of miles away are going to tell me that what I and so many others are seeing with our own eyes is false. It's mind boggling.
too bad the hogs he is referring to are not indigenous to that area....where as the wolves you are talking about are. :aok
oh and so you don't have to look it up.....indigenous....means..."coming from originally" in other words that's where they are from.....or "not from" in the case of the hogs.
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Werent wolves hunting deers LONG before humanity arrived in North America? :headscratch:
What gives you the right to claim their food source for yourself, and push them away?
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You can take my eyewitness account and tell me to shove it, I really don't care. Just remember that there are thousands of hunters in this area that feel the way I do. To those of us that live here and see what's going on it's plain as day.
I am a Market Analyst for my company, and see this kind of thing every day. Someone will swear one thing is true, and it is true with everyone that they talk to. When in reality what they think is wrong. But that is because of haphazard sampling, which is not entirely representative and can be misleading. You may be notice less deer in your area, but "that city fella" that lives a couple miles away that you never talk to, actually goes hunting and thinks there is an abundance of deer. However you don't think his opinion matters because you don't know he actually goes hunting, and he doesn't participate in groups you are involved with so you don't know his experiences.
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I am a Market Analyst for my company, and see this kind of thing every day. Someone will swear one thing is true, and it is true with everyone that they talk to. When in reality what they think is wrong. But that is because of haphazard sampling, which is not entirely representative and can be misleading. You may be notice less deer in your area, but "that city fella" that lives a couple miles away that you never talk to, actually goes hunting and thinks there is an abundance of deer. However you don't think his opinion matters because you don't know he actually goes hunting, and he doesn't participate in groups you are involved with so you don't know his experiences.
I understand what you are saying and I probably shouldn't dismiss anyone's opinion. However, I have yet to see anyone post in this thread that has first hand knowledge with our area.
I'm saying that wolves are taking a large amount of deer and need proper management.
The push-back is from people saying that wolves are pretty and majestic and have a right to live here and do as they please.
I hunt and fish all over this area. Everyone that I associate with hunts and fishes all over this area. We've all noticed the same thing.
Back when the wolf program was started, the number was 200 animals were needed to sustain a viable population. Nobody had a problem with that. We now have more than triple that amount and the effects are noticeable. Now we have a problem.
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I understand what you are saying and I probably shouldn't dismiss anyone's opinion. However, I have yet to see anyone post in this thread that has first hand knowledge with our area.
I'm saying that wolves are taking a large amount of deer and need proper management.
The push-back is from people saying that wolves are pretty and majestic and have a right to live here and do as they please.
I hunt and fish all over this area. Everyone that I associate with hunts and fishes all over this area. We've all noticed the same thing.
Back when the wolf program was started, the number was 200 animals were needed to sustain a viable population. Nobody had a problem with that. We now have more than triple that amount and the effects are noticeable. Now we have a problem.
i was in Iron River 2 days ago. i dont live far from the u.p. i see deer everywhere. not kidding, they are dead all up and down the highway. are you going to tell me that the deer population in the u.p. is in dire straits while the deer population in n.e. wisconsin is healthy and strong? im not trying to rile here, but you keep saying "what i see with my own eyes" and then you keep posting information, and then saying that info is wrong, because you've seen so yourself! can you honestly see every deer in the upper noodleula? can you see every wolf? i imagine this post might anger you, because that seems to be the trend here, but i'm from almost the same region as you. the deer are fine here. do you honestly think the Department of Natural Resources would let the deer population fall below a huntable level? do you know how much $$$ they'd stand to lose? c'mon now. wolves are fine too, a natural part of the areas ecostructure.
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You see, I work in Iron River. I've been meandering around this area since i was 2.
Yes, there are dead deer on the highway. Not as many as before.
I posted a number from the DNR that I don't think is small in any way.
The DNR is realizing it's mistake and I can say with much certainty that wolves will be de-listed from the endangered species list very soon, after which time the state may decide to open a limited season on them. They cannot suppress the public outcry much longer and they know it. Did they purposely allow the wolf population to get out of hand? I highly doubt it. Like I said, the original program numbers were supposed to be ~200 wolves. However, the amount of game has allowed that number to more than triple and due to regulations the authorities hands are tied.
The whole $$$ issue is the real heart of the matter. If something isn't done soon it will hurt a lot of people in their wallets. Not to mention their tummies.
Do you want to know the conspiracy theory for the re-introduction of wolves and cougars to the UP? Many believe the insurance companies are sliding cash to the state to help keep the number of car-deer accidents lower. It sounds outlandish on the surface, but it does make one pause to think.
Oh, by the way... Stay outta da U.P. Irish, we don't like you cheeseheads coming around and giving our sheep da VD. :furious ;)
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Do you want to know the conspiracy theory for the re-introduction of wolves and cougars to the UP? Many believe the insurance companies are sliding cash to the state to help keep the number of car-deer accidents lower. It sounds outlandish on the surface, but it does make one pause to think.
i've heard of this, and many of my hunting buddies here in WI believe it to be true. i personally think it could have merit, and wouldn't be surprised a bit if the DNR was getting kickbacks to embellish population numbers. did you hear of the "earn-a-buck" bullcrap we had going here for a little while? that started to raise a few eyebrows 'round here. ridiculous program, gone by the wayside for this season, thank god. and you are correct, $$$ is the monster behind it, as per usual. i agree with you 100% on this. i just think wolves have their place too, in moderation of course. obviously too heavy of a predatory population is a detriment. we live in an awesome region of the country, with the whitetail hunting being one of the best parts. if the stupid freaking insurance conglomerates are really up this garbage, and manage to get their way, then i have no hope for the DNR. it's hard to tell what's real and what isn't these days, what with all the scandal in virtually every corner of our lives. one must be very careful in what he takes as gospel. everyone seems out to pull the wool over the eyes of the everyman.
P.S. all conspiracy theory aside, i still believe the deer population is doing better than ok. i see them virtually everywhere! i saw one on Velp Ave. in GB last week, bounding off through the cemetary. that's right in the middle of town! they are thick, and they are healthy, and i can't wait to blow a big hole thru the middle of one :D
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Oh, by the way... Stay outta da U.P. Irish, we don't like you cheeseheads coming around and giving our sheep da VD. :furious ;)
our sheep are better looking anyways, and have grown resistant to most local VD :aok
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Well good luck to ya Irish. I've already got my doe in the freezer and planned on spending rifle season with a camera in my hands. (Of course I'll have the '06 along as well, you know, just in case that once-in-a-lifetime buck appears.)
Another thing to consider that has some of us yoopers a bit uptight is the emergence of chronic wasting disease in northern Wisconsin. I can't remember if it was in Forest or Vilas county last year.
So many threats to the herd and not many viable solutions.
Anyway, I guess it's obvious that this issue weighs pretty heavily on my mind. I would like to profusely apologize to the folks that I called names and the folks who I dismissed as "know nothings". It was unbecoming and does absolutely nothing to further my argument.
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Another thing to consider that has some of us yoopers a bit uptight is the emergence of chronic wasting disease in northern Wisconsin. I can't remember if it was in Forest or Vilas county last year.
been an issue for a couple years now, and it weighs heavy on my mind as well. the DNR encourages hunters to donate the heads of the deer they've tagged in an effort to figure out wtf is going on with this "mad cow for deer." would i be wrong to assume that's done in the u.p. as well? it's a scary thing, and i've got the sinking feeling it's going to get worse before it gets better. wtg on the doe, and here's to that trophy that's gonna mosey past your stand. :cheers: all the best :salute
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Ahhh to fatten them up? :D
They had feeders to get the deer used to being around their property. Wasn't even hunting season when my friend tried that, he just did it for the hell of it.
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Melvin,
Do you know anything about wolves? I mean besides the fact they kill dear! the only reason the population has grown is because there is suffient forage to support an increase in numbers. Wolve dont just breed willynilly you know. They are always in check with the available food sources because unlike you or I they cant just go to thwe supermarket and buy a steak.
Now if you were talking about coyetes I could see the atitude you have as being fair,they were never here before so shouldnt be here now IMHO.
To say that the wolves have taken X amount of deer is fine but what percentage of those were even havestable deer,how many are sick,injured,starving and out right dead when the wolves"take" them.
In Algonquin it's regular practice to take roadkill into the park to help sustain the rare and endangered wolves found there,the vast amount of "kills" are either old,sick,injured or young. Wolves rarely kill healthy animals,why do you think they run the herd? to see which animals have a hard time keeping up,this is true for most wolves and most of their prey.
Wolves evolved to run at a constant pace for a long time but not to run full out,their prey do the opposite,this gives the wolves the luxury of picking their prey and the almost never target the "front runners" or healthy unless they have no other choice.
IMHO if you were a "true" hunter you'd be in favour of preditors as they keep the populations of prey in their most healthiest state. Judging from you posted I highly doubt that,oh and I live right across the lake from you,your more thasn welcome to send some of your wolves over here!
:salute
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We need a few predators here.
Rt 23 runs right through Valley Forge park.
Trying to drive it at night is like taking one's life into one's hands. The deer literally number in the thousands and have no fear of cars. They will walk right up to your vehicle.
http://articles.philly.com/2010-10-04/news/24980804_1_deer-population-shooting-deer-animal-rights (http://articles.philly.com/2010-10-04/news/24980804_1_deer-population-shooting-deer-animal-rights)
http://www.timesonline.com/news/state/nd-deer-cull-to-begin-at-valley-forge-park/article_88924877-0785-573f-9856-649815188ea1.html (http://www.timesonline.com/news/state/nd-deer-cull-to-begin-at-valley-forge-park/article_88924877-0785-573f-9856-649815188ea1.html)
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IMHO if you were a "true" hunter you'd be in favour of preditors as they keep the populations of prey in their most healthiest state.
:salute
Humans have been doing just fine at keeping the deer herd plentiful and healthy without any help from the wolves.
Unlike the political pawns that get their leadership from Lansing, some of us have the foresight to see that a wolf population left unchecked will be disastrous to the herd, and then, the local economy.
Has your local government gone on a crusade to rebuild the wolf population, or have they understood that a balance must be kept in regards to predator numbers?
Coyotes, oh man do we ever have those too. I'm hoping to find the time to get out and lay a few down this winter. :aok
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I thought it was a photoshop but it's not. It's real and from Canada.
Doesn't need to be fake, the area West -NW of Edmonton , Jasper NP is wild ,100s of square miles unpopulated , only few roads, glaciers,mountains. Lots of elk, goat,even herds caribou migrating in winter time ,plenty of food for wolves.It's the land that time forgot, wild but fascinating;when i first been up there and seen the landscape i wouldn't have been surprised to see Godzilla or bigfoot riding a dinosaurs.
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Wolves no longer serve any meaningful purpose in nature. With the rise of Mankind the wolf has outlived its usefulness. Historically they have been eradicated from most of the world because they're pests that attack livestock and compete with human hunters for prey animals. I have no more compassion or respect for a wolf that I do for a rat. They should be eradicated. The bleeding heart conservationists can go buy a dog.
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Each animal plays a part in the circle of life...are you really going to question that?
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The circle of life is ever changing. The wolf no longer has a place in it. Since the beginning of life here on earth, over 99% of all species that have lived are now extinct.
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Melvin, I give you a B+ for intention, but a giant F- for comprehension and execution.
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too many ignorant idiots in the world. LETS KILL THEM OFF!