Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: SpencAce on November 25, 2011, 11:42:52 AM
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the PBY5-A played a big part in WW2, mostly for air-sea rescue. But i think that it would come in handy as the only plane luanchable from a normal port as well as airfields. the 5-A variant was amphibious. it's main role in this game would be anti ship duties.
specs...
crew: 8
length: 63 ft 10 in
height: 21ft 1in
wingspan: 104 ft
max level flight speed: 196 mph
max range: 2520 miles
service ceiling: 15,800 ft
armament: 1 .30 cal in the nose turret and 2 .50 cal blister turrets
payload: 4,000 lbs of bombs, depth charges, or torpedoes
thank you for considering this addition to the game
R Senior Airmen Gradel
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has been already asked for numerous times in super long documented threads
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If we were to have only one aircraft launchable from the port, why make it something as uncompetitive as the PBU-5? Why not a Sunderland or Emily?
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well first off congrats finally somone who got the model type and listed the fact it had guns(last like 4 posts did not i think) anyways as said it has been wished for numerous times im still +1 for it
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If we were to have only one aircraft launchable from the port, why make it something as uncompetitive as the PBU-5? Why not a Sunderland or Emily?
the reason i like the catalina more than the sunderland is because the sunderland is not amphibious like the catalina is
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ports only have a vh hangar. no airplane hangar there. you also wishing for an airplane hangar to be added?
semp
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honestly, people keep on saying that its too slow. HOWEVER! :old: It just means i wont have to worry about controlling my throttle when dropping torps. so i say yes.
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ports only have a vh hangar. no airplane hangar there. you also wishing for an airplane hangar to be added?
semp
If the VH is near the ocean it could spawn in the water like a PT boat, no need to add a hanger since the majority of the time they were either moored off shore or to a flying boat tender.
ack-ack
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PBY-<pick a model> = ginormous useles target.
Don't get me wrong, I like the plane. Think it's really cool looking. I just can't imagine any use for it in this game. I mean none. Don't start with the education attemps--I know what it did in RL. But in real life they didn't send a PBY or PBYs into a sector full of enemy fighter planes. In this game it'd be a target and nothing else. It would quickly become the biggest hangar queen we have and a total waste of HTC time and resources in having developed it. We have bigger fish to fry here.
Please stop. The PBY and night are the two things asked for here that just leave me shakin my head. It's to the point where I feel compelled to say something.
That goes double for the Emily and the Sutherland.
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Drano,
Just an FYI, but the Emily has about the performance of a B-17 in terms of speed and bomb load. It would probably be tougher and it climbs much better, though its Type 99 Model 1 cannons won't be as effective defensively as the B-17's .50 cals.
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i would only use if you could drop troops.
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+1
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+1 on emily.
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ports only have a vh hangar. no airplane hangar there. you also wishing for an airplane hangar to be added?
semp
They have boat hangars, right?(Vehicle)
READ THIS THEN CLICK ON LINK:
Definition of Amphibious: Able to operate both on land and in water. SO ITS A BOAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE0hnDWI_0U
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ya, of course it would have troops, it could be the only even slighty defended troop carrying plane in the game.. and it could be usful for a quick defence from a port against a carrier
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I personally can't say we need amphibious planes until maritime warfare grows a bit. Once we start seeing submarines and ship convoys, than yeah sure, would be useful in a historic role within the game: finding ships/subs.
Until then though it would probably be safe to say it'd be one useless big, fat, bleeping target. :old:
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They have boat hangars, right?(Vehicle)
READ THIS THEN CLICK ON LINK:
Definition of Amphibious: Able to operate both on land and in water. SO ITS A BOAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE0hnDWI_0U
no it's an airplane that can land on water. check up again on your own comments.
semp
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no it's an airplane that can land on water. check up again on your own comments.
semp
It still wouldn't need a hanger as most were either moored offshore on buoys or to a floatplane tender, or lacking those just beached on the shore line. Only in major rear area bases was there a possibility of more permanent structure like a hanger, for example Pearl Harbor. In most cases, 95% of the time PBYs operated where there were no hangers.
ack-ack
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the PBY5-A played a big part in WW2, mostly for air-sea rescue.
well, when we have a reason to rescue toon pilots instead of letting them end sortie, then the pby will play an important part...otherwise it's a bigger target than the b5n.
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well, when we have a reason to rescue toon pilots instead of letting them end sortie, then the pby will play an important part...otherwise it's a bigger target than the b5n.
We do... as I recall you get more/lose less perks for a 'bailed successfully' than you do for a 'you have died' or 'you have been captured'.
So... if a downed pilot in a 262 is going to lose 225 perkies, maybe a squaddie in a PBY goes out, picks him up, flies him back to base, and he only looses 221 perkies...
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We do... as I recall you get more/lose less perks for a 'bailed successfully' than you do for a 'you have died' or 'you have been captured'.
So... if a downed pilot in a 262 is going to lose 225 perkies, maybe a squaddie in a PBY goes out, picks him up, flies him back to base, and he only looses 221 perkies...
see, now that is the kind of teamworkd that we need in the game to be really succesful
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At this point though imagine all the time lost waiting for someone to up a PBY or similar ac to come pick you up, unless there was somebody in orbit not to far away from where you were.
Or from the other point of view, upping a PBY to go retrieve somebody just to arrive and find them AFK for god only knows how long.....
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At this point though imagine all the time lost waiting for someone to up a PBY or similar ac to come pick you up, unless there was somebody in orbit not to far away from where you were.
Or from the other point of view, upping a PBY to go retrieve somebody just to arrive and find them AFK for god only knows how long.....
Yes... MA it's not entirely useful in this situation. Now what about SEA & FSO events? Maybe bonuses for retreiving downed pilots? I just think in general it'd be great. Allow it to up from ports, maybe add a new hangar type for it. Allow it to carry supplies, and even possibly allow a Dot on a map if it's within 5miles of a CV to represent it being spotted. I can think of all sorts of cool things it could do. Hell, let it drop mines too! We could mine the heck out of the water in front of towns to keep CV's from steaming right up. Put mines on PT's too! Once CV's are added... depth charges (w00t!).
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Yes... MA it's not entirely useful in this situation. Now what about SEA & FSO events? Maybe bonuses for retreiving downed pilots? I just think in general it'd be great. Allow it to up from ports, maybe add a new hangar type for it. Allow it to carry supplies, and even possibly allow a Dot on a map if it's within 5miles of a CV to represent it being spotted. I can think of all sorts of cool things it could do. Hell, let it drop mines too! We could mine the heck out of the water in front of towns to keep CV's from steaming right up. Put mines on PT's too! Once CV's are added... depth charges (w00t!).
OK, yeah the mines and CV spotting would definetely be nice :aok
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Yes... MA it's not entirely useful in this situation. Now what about SEA & FSO events? Maybe bonuses for retreiving downed pilots? I just think in general it'd be great. Allow it to up from ports, maybe add a new hangar type for it. Allow it to carry supplies, and even possibly allow a Dot on a map if it's within 5miles of a CV to represent it being spotted. I can think of all sorts of cool things it could do. Hell, let it drop mines too! We could mine the heck out of the water in front of towns to keep CV's from steaming right up. Put mines on PT's too! Once CV's are added... depth charges (w00t!).
how long will it take pbys to go fly 4 or 5 sectors that is common during scenarios? you really gonna think a pby will launch retrieve and bring a downed pilot back before it's time for the next scenario :eek:.
semp
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probably the same time it takes D3A's and B5N's and F4F's and other slow planes to do it...
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probably the same time it takes D3A's and B5N's and F4F's and other slow planes to do it...
those are actually faster planes.
semp
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Looking at the numbers... at top speed, the D3A would be able to cover one more sector an hour than a PBY... Speed demon!
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We do... as I recall you get more/lose less perks for a 'bailed successfully' than you do for a 'you have died' or 'you have been captured'.
no you don't. ditch/bail gets the same points as died...rescue would be the same as a ditch/bail. no net gain, tower out and get back in the fight.
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That's also a bad reason to include it: to save lost perks.
The perks you pay for a 262, let's say, are gone. The perk price is established once you take off. The multiplier for perks is only applied to what you earn DURING that sortie. Not the price you paid.
Say the perk price is 200 (let's make it nice and round). Say the kills you earn net you 5 perks if you had landed. You lose the plane and bail, so that's -200 points already.
However you bail so you get half those 5 perks. You'll get 2.5 back. So you lose 197.5 perks instead of 200. The perk price isn't modified, just the perk reward is.
EDIT: something like that. I don't mean those numbers/ratios exactly. You get the idea.
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dont get a 262 unless you are ready to lose those perks.
semp
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...I'll add your comments into the "I wouldn't do it so no one else should" category of why so many things shouldn't be added to this game.
There are a lot of great ideas on here that are smack talked down by straw man arguments and useless posting that has no constructive use to the game. HTC doesn't seem to be doing a lot of development on the game as far as new features go. We get little pieces from players, we haven't had a new map in god knows how long... and any post which suggests the game play be modified to possibly add something more is immediately shot down.
I'm sure there's people out there who think resupplying bases is a waste of time, and useless and should be left out of the game. Because they wouldn't do it, does that mean no one should be able to? Last time this came up, people complained about the new line up of P40s and how "everyone wanted them, but then no one uses them". I for one don't remember a single person saying the P40 lineup needed to be expanded. I've still flown them, and had fun in them. They're not my bag of tea, so I don't up them every day... but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be in the game because I don't like to use them, and I can't see their purpose.
The Spit I is available in the MA, and I have a blast upping it when I get the wild hare up my butt... but you hardly see those flown. Does that mean they should be taken out of the game? I'm just not getting these arguments that basically state, "It's not the best so we don't need it". Where would Finland be if it took that attitude?
Or we could just cut everything out, Have the P51, the B29 and the F4U4 because every other plane is worthless and why waste time with anything else?
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you really haven't gotten past the "kewl" factor have you wilbur? spit1s and p40s are faster and more maneuverable than the pby...you at least have a chance of surviving a sortie in them.
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...<stuff>
wil3ur,
The difference is that the Spit I took very little developer time as it is a variant of Spitfire which, as these boards are so constantly reminding us, is not exactly a rarely used airframe.
The PBY-5 would take a lot more developer resources being both a completely unique model and being a multi-engine, multi-station aircraft. The question here is what would the developer time be most effectively used for? Thus far the arguments for the PBY-5 have done a poor job of making a strong case for the PBY-5 being a good use of those developer resources.
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also, if the PBY is out of the Question, we do need a german heavy bomber,,,,, the fw200 is pretty sweet :noid
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They have boat hangars, right?(Vehicle)
READ THIS THEN CLICK ON LINK:
Definition of Amphibious: Able to operate both on land and in water. SO ITS A BOAT!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE0hnDWI_0U
Boat Hangers are called AV's or in another words: seaplane tenders, they were auxilary class ships designed to replenish and maintain seaplanes.
Other Aux ships are: AE - or effective fleet replenishment capability, the idea was to replenish carriers/warships at sea, AKE's were world war 2 designs however it was not until 1945 that AE's were able to replenish while at sea.
AD's were Destroyer tenders, able to replenish Destroyers with everything needed to maintain a squadron
AS were Submarine tenders
AGP were torpedo boat tenders (PT boats)
AKV were transports able to carry Aircraft (normally an AK could carry aircraft, however they had to be crated up, AKV's were able to keep a squadron of aircraft ready to deploy without having them crated (they used cranes)
AR's were Repair ships, if a warship was damaged he could dock with an AR and it would be able to give it some repairs before heading back to drydock, this was major in saving quite a few warships from being sunk, it wouldn't fix major damage (gun turret blown off) but if they needed to patch a hole in the hull, then an AR was useful.
Finally AVP were small seaplane tenders, for single engined seaplanes etc, possibly Pby's I cant remember.
AZ - not sure if any served in WW2 (cant remember) they were lighter then air tenders, for blimps etc. There were some blimps used for submarine spotting off california, however I barely remember reading much about them.
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There was a very good episode of Wings of the Luftwaffe that showed the ports and contraptions that showed how German maritime seaplanes were launched and recovered.... wish i had a link, but oh well lol :bolt:
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also, if the PBY is out of the Question, we do need a german heavy bomber,,,,, the fw200 is pretty sweet :noid
Please explain in what way is the Fw200 "pretty sweet"?
Is it the fact that it is slower than the Ju88A-4? Maybe the fact that it carries less bombs than the Ju88A-4? Perhaps the fact that it has poorer defensive guns than the Ju88A-4? It might be the fact that it is much more fragile than the Ju88A-4? Which of those were you thinking of?
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Please explain in what way is the Fw200 "pretty sweet"?
Is it the fact that it is slower than the Ju88A-4? Maybe the fact that it carries less bombs than the Ju88A-4? Perhaps the fact that it has poorer defensive guns than the Ju88A-4? It might be the fact that it is much more fragile than the Ju88A-4? Which of those were you thinking of?
Or the fact that Fw 200 crews were ordered in mid-1941 to stop attacking shipping and avoid combat in order to preserve their numbers and after 1943 served as transports on the Eastern Front.
ack-ack
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Or the fact it wasn't even a heavy bomber? It was a passenger liner converted to maritime recon and occasional anti-shipping runs.
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as long as we get supply convoys,subs, and then me might need them. why fly a plane that only goes 130 mph vs a plane that can carry just as much if not more ordinance and go 350.
how often do you fly the D3A1? why not..
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Or the fact it wasn't even a heavy bomber? It was a passenger liner converted to maritime recon and occasional anti-shipping runs.
Kinda like how the He-111 was also a passenger liner? That itself had mild success, and clearly extensive use.....
I'm down for the Fw200... Want more 4 engine aircraft to intercept :aok
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Kinda like how the He-111 was also a passenger liner? That itself had mild success, and clearly extensive use.....
I'm down for the Fw200... Want more 4 engine aircraft to intercept :aok
The difference was that the He111 was designed as a bomber, but declared to be an airliner for cover purposes. The Fw200 was designed as an airliner and later pressed into service as a patrol bomber.
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The difference was that the He111 was designed as a bomber, but declared to be an airliner for cover purposes. The Fw200 was designed as an airliner and later pressed into service as a patrol bomber.
Ah, thank you for the clarification sir! :salute
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Are you sure you want this update? I don't think I'd fry the prane, it has such row speeds, it would be an easy target for other pranes. I mean at high artitudes, it's stirr srow.
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Are you sure you want this update? I don't think I'd fry the prane, it has such row speeds, it would be an easy target for other pranes. I mean at high artitudes, it's stirr srow.
STOP SMOKING CRACK
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Kinda like how the He-111 was also a passenger liner? That itself had mild success, and clearly extensive use.....
I'm down for the Fw200... Want more 4 engine aircraft to intercept :aok
yes.. thank you, finally someone that understands the need for more large aircraft.
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the PBY is a flying vulch. and accual vulches would be like cheating. its just like killing a hovering blackhawk with a F-16 from 3 miles away with a missle
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yes.. thank you, finally someone that understands the need for more large aircraft.
Do we need 10 wheeled Yugos too? :lol
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Do we need 10 wheeled Yugos too? :lol
-can i have an air freshener for my yugo?
-sure it sounds like a fair trade.
-how much will you give me for my yugo?
-well it depends on blue book value and how much gas you have in it.
semp
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Do we need 10 wheeled Yugos too? :lol
Well, if you're offering then.......... YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS :x
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Please explain in what way is the Fw200 "pretty sweet"?
Is it the fact that it is slower than the Ju88A-4? Maybe the fact that it carries less bombs than the Ju88A-4? Perhaps the fact that it has poorer defensive guns than the Ju88A-4? It might be the fact that it is much more fragile than the Ju88A-4? Which of those were you thinking of?
well actually only one of those is true :headscratch:, .. yes the JU-88A4 is faster with a speed of 292 mph against the fw200 with a speed of 224 mph.
but when it comes to payload, the JU-88 can only carry 4,420 lbs of bombs while the fw200 can carry 4,626 lbs of bombs.
And then when it comes to armement, the JU-88 has two 13mm(52cal) machine guns and three 7.9mm (31.6cal) machine guns. giving it a total of 42.7mms of defencive armement
then the fw200 has one 20mm(80cal) canon, three 13mm (52cal) machine guns, and two 7.9mm (31.6cal) machine guns,, giving it a total of 74.8mms of defencive armement.
soooooo.. ya.. the fw200 is better actually... not to mention that we just straight up need more big bombers and jets in the game
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well actually only one of those is true :headscratch:, .. yes the JU-88A4 is faster with a speed of 292 mph against the fw200 with a speed of 224 mph.
but when it comes to payload, the JU-88 can only carry 4,420 lbs of bombs while the fw200 can carry 4,626 lbs of bombs.
And then when it comes to armement, the JU-88 has two 13mm(52cal) machine guns and three 7.9mm (31.6cal) machine guns. giving it a total of 42.7mms of defencive armement
then the fw200 has one 20mm(80cal) canon, three 13mm (52cal) machine guns, and two 7.9mm (31.6cal) machine guns,, giving it a total of 74.8mms of defencive armement.
soooooo.. ya.. the fw200 is better actually... not to mention that we just straight up need more big bombers and jets in the game
Ju88A-4 carries 3000kg (6600lbs) of bombs. The Fw200 was so structurally weak many broke their backs landing.
The Ju88 is in all ways, other than range, superior to the Fw200. The Ju188A-1 would be the best bomber to be added for the Germans, from a capability standpoint.
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The Fw200 was so structurally weak many broke their backs landing.
Not too banter on about this, but where in the game today do we stresses like this? It's not like we up an aircraft and because it had a history of problems in reality, that you randomly get a lemon and kaput on the runway. Take the 109 for instance.... notorious landing gear issues.
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If the VH is near the ocean it could spawn in the water like a PT boat, no need to add a hanger since the majority of the time they were either moored off shore or to a flying boat tender.
ack-ack
+1
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Not too banter on about this, but where in the game today do we stresses like this? It's not like we up an aircraft and because it had a history of problems in reality, that you randomly get a lemon and kaput on the runway. Take the 109 for instance.... notorious landing gear issues.
Try taxiing a 109 for rearm and tell me they don't have issues...
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Not too banter on about this, but where in the game today do we stresses like this? It's not like we up an aircraft and because it had a history of problems in reality, that you randomly get a lemon and kaput on the runway. Take the 109 for instance.... notorious landing gear issues.
Anytime you get shot the aircraft's durability comes into it. People expecting this thing to hold up like a B-17/B-24/B-29/Lancaster just because it has four engines would find that it is more fragile than the G4M1 when under enemy fire.
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Anytime you get shot the aircraft's durability comes into it. People expecting this thing to hold up like a B-17/B-24/B-29/Lancaster just because it has four engines would find that it is more fragile than the G4M1 when under enemy fire.
well in aces high you never know...*cough* B26 A20 *cough*
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well in aces high you never know...*cough* B26 A20 *cough*
What about them?
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With scout/observing planes being introduced it just gives us a bigger reason to include...
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and see? that is the argument that arose one our squad channel... First we get the storch, the PBY cannot be far behind... right?
but the question is - from a port would the PBY take off from the indestructable? or be water-bourne like a PT boat? But then what? would the PBY drop it's water skids? our will it keep it? My Brain hurts with questions :bhead :bhead
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Drop its floats?!? What sort of question is that? Of course not. The wing tip floats fold up to cap the wings.
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ports only have a vh hangar. no airplane hangar there. you also wishing for an airplane hangar to be added?
semp
Hmmm... I've seen ports on some maps that have full airfields. I don't remember which ones but they do. We also have fields on coastlines that have no shore batteries and that is another story. :D
All the Best...
Jay
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ya, of course it would have troops, it could be the only even slighty defended troop carrying plane in the game.. and it could be usful for a quick defence from a port against a carrier
Inre: Troops ... A 10 man squad wouldn't be realistic at all ... BUT ... how about a Commando Squad? 3 guys with the capability of covertly blowing things up on a base ? I'll start another topic on this so as not to pollute this thread, you can reply there. :D
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Bah humbug! I want the PBY-5A! Torps, bombs, and all! Even the ability to spot like our new Storch!
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x2 for the PBY-5A
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ya seriously,, now that the storch is getting added as a plane that has a longer range for spoting gv's, why not make the pby have the same ability but it would also be amphibious and be able to carry troopls and supplys,,, basicly it would be like a c-47, storch, bomber with low number of bombs, and a an amphibious plane all put into 1... holy crap,, that sounds scary fun :O :x :lol :noid :banana: :banana: :banana:
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After seeing that the storch is being added, I honestly could see this wish becoming a reality
I still think its a silly idea :D
I guess it would depend on if theres any demand in the "scouting" department. The storch would certainly help towards proving/disproving that concept.
Which makes me wonder... :noid
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basicly it would be like a c-47,
No it wouldn't.
ack-ack
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No it wouldn't.
Gotta agree ... It's NOT a C-47. It might be used for resupply, it had a fairly usefull payload. Being able to resupply a CV / Task Force might add an interesting element to amphibious operations. But delivering / droping more than 3 troops wouldn't be realistic at all. Giving it LONG RANGE vision as seems to be the plan for the Storch might make it a popular CV hunter ? :aok
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Gotta agree ... It's NOT a C-47. It might be used for resupply, it had a fairly usefull payload. Being able to resupply a CV / Task Force might add an interesting element to amphibious operations. But delivering / droping more than 3 troops wouldn't be realistic at all. Giving it LONG RANGE vision as seems to be the plan for the Storch might make it a popular CV hunter ? :aok
Resupply--a task force? OK walk me through this. You have a plane that's a big lumbering elephant that will barely break a hundred miles an hour with a tailwind that we generally don't have. It has little defensive armament. No armor. It's just big. It's somehow gonna make it in to supply a task force that's obviously under attack or else it wouldn't need resupply. How's this happening? Add a cloaking device?
Long range vision? Didn't we just get that pretty much removed from the GVs an update or so ago? Why take it from them and give it to a plane? You can hunt a Task group with a fighter and cover more ground faster and have some ability to live through the ordeal. Or not. YMMV
For the 163rd time I gotta say--this plane has no place in this game. It's not that I don't like the PBY. I'm just trying to be objective here. Yes there were several squadrons of them in the war. Yes it had a critical role in the areas in which it operated. But those areas--the maritime areas--are of secondary importance in this game. Almost an afterthought really. It's not a naval ship game. It's a cool looking bird sure. But it's a complex shaped one that I'm sure would be a royal pita for the gang down at HTC to model. That said I'd rather they spend their clock cycles with something we'd all likely use at least occasionally. This bird would be the hangar queen of all hangar queens. Not even scenario play worthy.
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a plane that's a big lumbering elephant --- It's somehow gonna make it in to supply a task force that's obviously under attack or else it wouldn't need resupply. How's this happening
A B24 is an Elephant. The PBY is very gracefull and is best compared to a Swan. You seem to think that CVs are constantly attacked until sunk (Not). If properly handled and vigorously defended, attacks tend to come in waves that may require considerable time to arrive if the Fighter/Bomber Hangers are put down OR a Port / GV base is under attack ... Usually a reasonable window for resupply exists.
Long range vision? Didn't we just get that pretty much removed from the GVs an update or so ago? Why take it from them and give it to a plane? You can hunt a Task group with a fighter and cover more ground faster and have some ability to live through the ordeal. Or not. YMMV
LRV is to be a NEW feature of the STORCH Observation Bird recently announced. Giving it to a Seaplane for Naval observation seems to be an obvious evolution. It would enable the PBY to detect and/or shadow a task group without drawing fire from puffy ack. Carrier attacks often take place in the game without notice which just isn't realistic (pearl harbor being a notable exception). This is NICE for the attackers, but ? losing a port you never knew was under attack is somewhat frustrating. :(
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Yes there were several squadrons of them in the war. Yes it had a critical role in the areas in which it operated. But those areas--the maritime areas--are of secondary importance in this game. Almost an afterthought really. It's not a naval ship game.
It's NOT? We just forget about the war in the pacific ??? (!) ... That war was fought FROM SHIPS ... The PBY was a CRITICAL asset during the dark days when we were LOSING to the Japanese ... It was a MAJOR player in several engagements, saved a LOT of Pilots, and the units that flew it were heavily cited for Efficiency & Valor.
It's a cool looking bird sure. But it's a complex shaped one that I'm sure would be a royal pita for the gang down at HTC to model.
I thought they LIVED for such challenges ? To what else do we owe the Rata (I-16), SdKfz 251, and The PT Boat? :lol
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Hate to say it EVZ but Drano is absolutely correct. There is no real place for the PBY in AH. Don't get me wrong, I am a big champion of this plane but I also don't see it being a viable plane for AH. There are other planes currently in game that do the job of the PBY much better than the Catalina could ever do.
ack-ack
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I also don't see it being a viable plane for AH. There are other planes currently in game that do the job of the PBY much better than the Catalina could ever do.
Sure ... and there are OTHER planes that do the same thing the Storch does MUCH better (faster, armed, etc) ... But the Game Experience goes BEYOND THAT ... AND - just to subvert the obvious argument that the Storch is STOL and will be available from Vehicle bases ... The PBY is AMPHIBIOUS and could function from Ports and Task Group areas.
:D
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Dude are you playing under a different name or have you really only been here a month and change? You're gonna tell a guy that's been doing this since the mid-90's about game experience? Seriously?
And re-read my other post. I did recognize that the PBY was essential in it's role during the actual war that took place in real life. That doesn't occur here **in this game** on any level resembling that role. It's not part of this game at all. Pilot rescue? For what? A $25 gift certificate to Target? A perk and a half? Really? I bet even Midway doesn't have the time for all that ;). I can see it now--look guys I'm the best at pilot rescue for this tour! Fear me! :rolleyes: It could shadow carriers? Dude the maps aren't that big. A sector is only 25 miles square and only the event maps have large, open spaces of water on them. And those events have time limits. There's simply no time for that pig to crawl across a map to find a task group when a faster fighter (or most any other bomber for that matter) could do the same thing and accomplish the mission in the time allotted. There's no comparison to the B-24. The PBY isn't in the same league as the Lib. Just a little game experience to throw back at ya.
FWIW I don't see the storch being more than a passing fancy. Like the I-16, it'll get clubbed repeatedly and folks will pretty much stop flying it other than just for kicks now and then or for an event. Unless you'd get perks for getting killed in it I just don't see it being viable. Cool little plane, sure. It'll be all neato at first. Heck I might take a hop or two in it myself. Look, at least some of the other hangar queens in this game have some degree of usefulness in the events where they have next to none in the regular arenas. They fit their roles in the appropriate theatre given an appropriate plane set. The PBY one has none. I get that you like the plane. I like the plane too. Really, I do. I just see absolutely no use for it *here*.
I'm a usually reserved guy here. There's a couple things that just get on my last nerve. Planes like this and night are on my list. So uh, sorry! :D
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Sure ... and there are OTHER planes that do the same thing the Storch does MUCH better (faster, armed, etc) ... But the Game Experience goes BEYOND THAT ... AND - just to subvert the obvious argument that the Storch is STOL and will be available from Vehicle bases ... The PBY is AMPHIBIOUS and could function from Ports and Task Group areas.
:D
I'm all for adding a plane that used broken beer bottles and regular ordnance for night time harrassment bombing missions but sadly, as I and others have mentioned, the plane just isn't viable.
As a scout...bombers or even a heavy fighter would be a better option for seeking out the enemy fleet. The PBY brings nothing special to the table in this regard. Yes, in real life the PBY carried a primitive ASR system but that was used primarily at night for searching for shipping and navigation, in the daytime the crews relied on the Mark I I-Ball with the binocular extensions as this was more reliable for finding surface targets than the ASR radar system. You'd be able to find a fleet just as easily in a bomber or a fighter and have a higher rate of survivability.
As a bomber...as the crews in real life found out, daytime attacks in the Catalina were near suicidal due to the low speed of the plane, that is why offensive operations were done at night. In AH, it would just be cannon fodder and most likely never reach the target if it is defended.
As a supply plane...in the early years of the war, it was pressed into service to ferry supplies to the various as teh Japanese were over running the Pacific. One of the most famous of these runs was the attempt to resupply Corregidor in late December of '41 and to carry out personnel. The supplies were limited though, mostly ammunition and medical supplies as the Catalina couldn't really carry anything much larger than that. In game it would only probably be limited to carrying vehicle supplies and it would have to land those as it couldn't air drop them. As for carrying personnel, it would be rather limited as well.
It takes more than "just the experience of flying it" for a plane to be viable for the game...flying just for the experience would get tiring after awhile if it resulted in your death 9 out of 10 times before you were even close to the target.
the Japanese Emily flying boat would be much more viable for AH.
ack-ack
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Even if we did that it'd prolly look something like this:
http://www.theartofalaska.net/galleries-2/the-art-of-john-hume/struck-by-lightning/
:D
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ok, i get that it isn't the most amazing plane ever but come on.. u can't tell me that you wouldn't have fun landing on WATER FOR GODS SAKE. and it really wouldn't be so hard for hitech to make.. for the actual plane part, just do whatever is always done.. and then for the amphibious part, just take whatever software design they used for the hull of the pt boat and give that to the softwae of the hull and wing floats on the pby.. ... smart right
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Dude are you playing under a different name or have you really only been here a month and change? You're gonna tell a guy that's been doing this since the mid-90's about game experience? Seriously?
Yeah I am, I was flying Air Warrior while you were sucking a tit.
And re-read my other post. I did recognize that the PBY was essential in it's role during the actual war that took place in real life. That doesn't occur here **in this game** on any level resembling that role. It's not part of this game at all.
We have Carriers, That have to be found ... PBYs NEVER did that ? Did They ? Never heard of Midway ? Never heard of Coral Sea ? New Britian ? PBYs quite possibly saved Australia from invasion. (DUH?)
I don't see the storch being more than a passing fancy.
There seem to be quite a few people upset by the notion that they might no longer be allowed to sneak base takes with CVs. If the Storch is a passing fancy, it's one that High Tech thinks will ADD to the playability and enjoyability of the game, despite your reluctance. -I- Think the PBY will too.:P
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Yeah I am, I was flying Air Warrior while you were sucking a tit.
Drano was one of the original members of The Damned if I recall correctly and I started playing AW when it was on Genie. Don't recall you in AW, what was your CPID?
We have Carriers, That have to be found ... PBYs NEVER did that ? Did They ? Never heard of Midway ? Never heard of Coral Sea ? New Britian ? PBYs quite possibly saved Australia from invasion. (DUH?)
I never said they weren't used as scouts, I just said that in AH there are planes that can do the job much better and be able to survive.
There seem to be quite a few people upset by the notion that they might no longer be allowed to sneak base takes with CVs. If the Storch is a passing fancy, it's one that High Tech thinks will ADD to the playability and enjoyability of the game, despite your reluctance. -I- Think the PBY will too.:P
Sneaking bases has nothing to do with adding the PBY to the game, don't know why you brought that in unless you're trying to imply that that disagree with you have some alterior motive. While the Catalina has a signficant role and place in real life during WW2, sadly in AH it will be nothing more than a hanger queen in the main arenas and probably in scenarios as well, though I do see some options for scenario play but sadly it would be in a very limited role due to game mechanics and design.
ack-ack
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There seem to be quite a few people upset by the notion that they might no longer be allowed to sneak base takes with CVs.
Explain this please.. Are you saying adding the PBY will stop people from bringing CVs in to capture bases?
Just how is the PBY going to stop it anymore than any other aircraft currently in the game?
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Yet another guy who flew AW that I never heard of. Man I must be getting old. I definitely remember Drano and AkAk,
heck I even remember old geezers like NB and Lonewolf. I used to get killed every once in a while by some dork named Hitech
too :rofl
I also admire EVZ's self control...he waited about 10 years before starting an account and haunting the Wishlist...nice
willpower amigo!
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Actually Dano and Drano are two different guys. Dano and Drano were both Damned yes, and both flew AW although Dano goes back just a couple of years before me. I missed the Genie era. I miss seeing him around. Used to wing with him regularly. Talk about confusion on VOX!
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And EVZ you're talking about a scenario-like application for this plane that wouldn't work for the events we have here. We don't have the time for a plane that simply takes too long to do what you describe. Everything is compressed here. If you were a part of this game for any length of time longer than a month you'd know that. In the main arenas if a PBY sighted a carrier and it had ANY sort of a CAP around it--what's it gonna do? It's gonna die. Easily. Can't run away from anything but a Storch. Can't shoot it's way out. Gonna die. Let's say you were looking for a "hidden" CV on one of the maps. Some moron has taken it to the outer rim of the map. You find it after flying around half a day. Literally. You call out on country channel. Hey guys there's a CV 300 miles away come get it. What do ya think is gonna happen? A mad rush? There's an actual fight goin on right over here. Why bother? If that didn't happen the CVs aren't more than 50-60 miles away from anywhere at any time. The CV will engage on the map eventually and when it does it'll get attacked. Been around that long you'd know that's the drill. I don't think you have. I think ya just googled air warrior.
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Explain this please.. Are you saying adding the PBY will stop people from bringing CVs in to capture bases? Just how is the PBY going to stop it anymore than any other aircraft currently in the game?
I'm saying that when CVs are discoverd ... even at considerable distance from a base ... a general announcement of their location usually brings in at LEAST 5 or 6 attackers, sometimes as many as 12-15. There are LOTS of people who want to sink carriers. But CVs are often undetected, even after they begin shelling a base or town ... Because the game doesn't even flash the base until someone ups from the carrier or they get a stupid gunner who kills the radar. My Squad DEFENDS as well as attacks and YES we frequently patrol areas we suspect as likely spots for CV attacks. Often the FIRST indication you've found a CV is puffy ack. They're NOT that easy to spot ... A dedicated ride with Long Range Observation ability (outside puffy range) would be a REAL asset.
We also sneak carriers into bases that see little use, shell the town/ords/hangers down and have launched Clean Up Birds and LTVS before ANYBODY knows we're there. TOO LATE by then ... :)
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We don't have the time for a plane that simply takes too long to do what you describe. Everything is compressed here. If you were a part of this game for any length of time longer than a month you'd know that.
So now you are the voice of Aces High? If you'd bothered to follow this thread since it was started, you'd KNOW that there are LOTS of experienced players here who WANT the plane you don't have time for ... But, since they disagree with you, they don't count, right? You don't want to fly it ... DON'T ... WHO is twisting your arm?
In the main arenas if a PBY sighted a carrier and it had ANY sort of a CAP around it --- Been around that long you'd know that's the drill.
CAP around it ? The only time a carrier in this game has a CAP AROUND IT is when it's under active attack ... It doesn't really require detection at that point ... gee WHOSE credibility is at issue here? CHANGING THE "DRILL" is why this wishlist exists ... it's unfortunate that some people want to use it to reinforce their personality inadequacys ... :ahand
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Ahh then you have extensive experience with the puffy ack too then. I don't know how you'd do it but if I'm in a P-38 at 12K at max vis range to the carrier (I have a high end PC with a high end video card and run the game at max settings btw), I mean max range as in can about make out the wakes to the ships not the ships themselves. I'm still gettin hammered by the puffy--and I'm at 300mph at 12K a great distance away. You'd be in a relatively stable target drone. Great practice for the puffy if anything else.
I'm not seeing a great outcry from what I would consider the "experienced players" here if you'd be the measuring stick for that.
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EVZ,
The PBY would not have any longer visibility than any other aircraft. The Storch is only getting vehicle icons a bit further out.
That being the case, why would one take a PBY-5 instead of a P-47N, P-51D or Mosquito when scouting for carriers?
Or, another way of putting it, why have the PBY-5 for that job and not the much faster and more capable H8K2 'Emily'?
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Or, another way of putting it, why have the PBY-5 for that job and not the much faster and more capable H8K2 'Emily'?
[/quote]
its because the pby was amphibious.. come on guys.. it is a plane that can land on land and water.. i'll be honest, i mostly want it because i would have some mad fun doin stupid stuff with it offline :lol
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PBY-5A needs to be added over the Emily because its American
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tttthhhhaaaannnnkkk you.. finally someone gets it
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PBY-5A needs to be added over the Emily because its American
From a practicality standpoint, I'd say that i might be because the PBY-5 would take something like one third the developer time to create that the Emily would. :p
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Or, another way of putting it, why have the PBY-5 for that job and not the much faster and more capable H8K2 'Emily'?
its because the pby was amphibious.. come on guys.. it is a plane that can land on land and water.. i'll be honest, i mostly want it because i would have some mad fun doin stupid stuff with it offline :lol
Our "water" is just blue colored sticky land. I don't know about you, but I'm content to land on green or grey stuff myself.
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The PBY would not have any longer visibility than any other aircraft. The Storch is only getting vehicle icons a bit further out.
It wouldn't? You also read minds? Equipping the the PBY with a pair of artillary field glasses (used from the mooring hatch in the bow?) gives it 5-10 times the range of the human eye. Programming the game to accomplish this shouldn't be particularly strenuous ... Just a matter or adjusting field of view and magnification. I presume the same basic process as the Storch, so Hi Tech definately knows HOW to do it.
That being the case, why would one take a PBY-5 instead of a P-47N, P-51D or Mosquito when scouting for carriers?
Many reasons ... 1st it's a MUCH more stable observation platform from which to use sensitive LRV equipment, 2nd it's parasol configuration doesn't obscure 30% (or more) of the area under observation. 3rd - The radio picks up my favorite Mexican Mariachi Stations and even a Hot Salsa Station from Panama ! :cool:
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So, what I am getting from all these PBY threads is that some people have decided they want the PBY and will come up with just about any reason, false or not, to justify why the PBY and only the PBY would be viable.
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PBY-5A needs to be added over the Emily because its American
Maybe ??? It would probably have greater appeal to the "average" player ( who is statistically speaking going to BE an american ). But beyond that the plane has an intrinsic appeal ... Geeze, Give us the Canadian Version, The Australian Version, The Argentinian Version, I don't care ... It's seen service with as many countrys as the B17 and C-47 have (post WWII).
I'm not particularly familiar with the Emily, My impression of it is as a large 4 engine flying boat reminiscent of a Grumman. As I recall it was the workhorse of the Japanese ? ARMY or NAVY ? not sure ... I seem to recall there was a SKY TRAIN version used exclusively for resupply that could carry over 50 troops ? I reckon it would be a MUCH larger target than a catalina ... THAT the appeal ? ;)
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I'm not particularly familiar with the Emily, My impression of it is as a large 4 engine flying boat reminiscent of a Grumman. As I recall it was the workhorse of the Japanese ? ARMY or NAVY ? not sure ... I seem to recall there was a SKY TRAIN version used exclusively for resupply that could carry over 50 troops ? I reckon it would be a MUCH larger target than a catalina ... THAT the appeal ? ;)
No, the appeal is that it could do 290mph, had an initial climb rate of over 1500ft/min, had armor for each crew position, armor for the engines and a completely protected fuel system, was armed with five 20mm Type 99 Model 1 cannons and a variable number of 7.7mm machine guns, could carry eight 250kg bombs or two 1600kg bombs or two torpedoes and had a 24 hour fuel endurance.
While it would be a larger target than any aircraft in AH other than the B-29, it would also be far, far more survivable than the PBY-5.
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So, what I am getting from all these PBY threads is that some people have decided they want the PBY and will come up with just about any reason, false or not, to justify why the PBY and only the PBY would be viable.
Interesting statement ... lets see, just a little twist AND --- So, what I am getting from all these PBY threads is that some people have decided they want the _EMILY_ and will come up with just about any reason, false or not, to justify why the _EMILY_ and _NOT_ the PBY would be viable.
Hmmm ... I'd be MORE than happy to see it put to a vote in the arenas. ;)
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While it would be a larger target than any aircraft in AH other than the B-29, it would also be far, far more survivable than the PBY-5.
Ahhhhh! Bigger is better !!! I see ! Someone want to suggest high tech add the Spruce Goose ? Come on? Anyone ....? Anyone ??? :x
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Interesting statement ... lets see, just a little twist AND --- So, what I am getting from all these PBY threads is that some people have decided they want the _EMILY_ and will come up with just about any reason, false or not, to justify why the _EMILY_ and _NOT_ the PBY would be viable.
Hmmm ... I'd be MORE than happy to see it put to a vote in the arenas. ;)
No, having a chance of actually accomplishing its mission is what makes it more desirable. That said, the developer time needed makes it prohibitive. If they did do so though, at least it would be useful.
Ahhhhh! Bigger is better !!! I see ! Someone want to suggest high tech add the Spruce Goose ? Come on? Anyone ....? Anyone ??? :x
No, bigger has nothing to do with it. Better has everything to do with it.
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So, what I am getting from all these PBY threads is that some people have decided they want the PBY and will come up with just about any reason, false or not, to justify why the PBY and only the PBY would be viable.
You gotta admit being able to drop broken beer bottles is a pretty good reason. :D
ack-ack
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No, having a chance of actually accomplishing its mission is what makes it more desirable. That said, the developer time needed makes it prohibitive. If they did do so though, at least it would be useful.
No, bigger has nothing to do with it. Better has everything to do with it.
PBY deserves its spot just like the B6N Kate, just because it couldn't defend itself doesn't mean it wasn't used majority of world war 2.
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PBY deserves its spot just like the B6N Kate, just because it couldn't defend itself doesn't mean it wasn't used majority of world war 2.
B5N you mean. The B5N is a requirement for scenarios. You cannot do them without it. The PBY-5 may not ever even be used in a scenario because to do so entails all the other participants to pretty much be sitting in the tower for hours until the PBY-5 succeeds.
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B5N you mean. The B5N is a requirement for scenarios. You cannot do them without it. The PBY-5 may not ever even be used in a scenario because to do so entails all the other participants to pretty much be sitting in the tower for hours until the PBY-5 succeeds.
PBY is capable of scouting for carriers, reporting back - staying out of range of enemy aircraft and torpedoing carriers.
How is this not viable for a scenario?
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PBY is capable of scouting for carriers, reporting back - staying out of range of enemy aircraft and torpedoing carriers.
How is this not viable for a scenario?
Because while it is scouting for carriers almost everybody else who is participating in the scenario is sitting in the tower twiddling their thumbs. Further, should it fail to find the CV and instead be shot down by some roving A6M2, where does the scenario go from there?
What are the Japanese supposed to be using to scout for the American CVs? If they are using a B5N or D3A, does that not give the Japanese a much better chance to find the Americans first due to their higher speeds?
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Because while it is scouting for carriers almost everybody else who is participating in the scenario is sitting in the tower twiddling their thumbs. Further, should it fail to find the CV and instead be shot down by some roving A6M2, where does the scenario go from there?
What are the Japanese supposed to be using to scout for the American CVs? If they are using a B5N or D3A, does that not give the Japanese a much better chance to find the Americans first due to their higher speeds?
Basically scenarios right now - are limited to 1 sector for carriers, because we have no scout crafts, For example "your enemy carrier will be in sector 1.1.x ". Instead it could be put on a historical course while scout crafts have to span out and search for it. Sure the B5N would be faster unless the Pete is added to the game, that just means the Japanese get to meet American F4F's and SBD's quicker. The Raid will launch in the general direction of the fleet, as did midway.
Secondly if there is any Clouds in the game, it would certainly hide a PBY, which flew no higher then 6k when spotting for carriers. Sure you can bring a few A6m's down to the deck, that just causes a Midway effect and you lose a carrier. Even if you put 1-2 A6ms on the deck, what chance it will find the PBY? Also how could the PBY not already Report back the location of the enemy fighters? Surely A6m's didn't fly from land base during Midway/Moresby/Coral Sea, so clearly if you run into an A6m you report it and the Strike group can be sent on their way.
It brings a higher level of strategy to the game then "Btw your strike group launches from C1 to attack enemy carrier in sector 1.1.x - when you could put the carrier on a course and make people find it - adding a level of uncertainty.
Sure it wouldn't be flown in the Main Arena much, neither would the Emily - difference over 3,000 PBY's were built while barely over 90 Emilys were built.
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PBY is capable of scouting for carriers, reporting back - staying out of range of enemy aircraft and torpedoing carriers.
How is this not viable for a scenario?
It's perfectly viable ... envisioning an entire scenario cast sitting on their thumbs and waiting is just an exaggerated objection. There is probably SOME truth in the notion that the plane doesn't fit perfectly into the game in it's present incarnation ... But ? The concept here is a game that is EVOLVING and that isn't something that you just wave a magic wand to accomplish instantaneously ... The Storch is an experimental step in this evolution, the PBY could be an extension of that concept moving towards a more tactical game environment. :angel:
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hey, just wanna give a schout out to EVZ and butcher for all there support on this topic
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hey, just wanna give a schout out to EVZ and butcher for all there support on this topic
It's funny, about the same time you started this thread I mentioned the PBY in a thread on the observation version of the "Champ" (? L3 birddog ?). Obviously great minds think alike!
Given the recent announcement of the STORCH I'd say it's obvious that High Tech has been following these "Observation Plane" threads and found them interesting enough for a trial addition. I think it's very possible we will eventually see a seaplane of some variety added. I think the PBY would be an outstanding choice. :aok
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oh ya, defenitly.. i can't wait to see how this goes
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It's funny, about the same time you started this thread I mentioned the PBY in a thread on the observation version of the "Champ" (? L3 birddog ?). Obviously great minds think alike!
Given the recent announcement of the STORCH I'd say it's obvious that High Tech has been following these "Observation Plane" threads and found them interesting enough for a trial addition. I think it's very possible we will eventually see a seaplane of some variety added. I think the PBY would be an outstanding choice. :aok
It makes sense to have an Observation class, you can look at it and say "it carries no defensive armament and is slow" well same was said about the M18 being it had no armor and a moderate gun - however I see them running all over the place, I doubt the PBY would be a Hanger queen given the right situation.
Give it two torpedoes or some ords, and I am quite sure its loiter time would make a very nice GV killer.
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Sure it wouldn't be flown in the Main Arena much, neither would the Emily - difference over 3,000 PBY's were built while barely over 90 Emilys were built.
I think the Emily would be flown, particularly if it had formations enabled, and it might as they did do formation bombing with it. The low production numbers on the Emily are certainly an issue, but for the just over 100 H8K2's built, it saw tons of service being in constant use from 1942 to the end of the war. Obviously the PBY-5 saw more hours of use, to claim otherwise would be absurd, but that alone doesn't make it the better choice for the game, otherwise we'd be getting the Russian Po-2 biplane instead of the Fi156.
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Gotta love you guys. The three of you newbs got less than 2 years experience in this game added together. But you know better, right? Bet none of you have ever participated in a scenario--ever. Never had to plan one or command a side or group in one either. I have done all of those more than a couple of times over the years. I know you haven't because if you did you'd know things like extended loiter time and three hour frame are not synonymous. You'd also know that in scenarios involving carrier group targets, the search area is larger--usually 4 or even 6 sectors. Sometimes it's 4 in FSO. That said, there's simply no time for this. I* totally get* what the plane did in the war but genii--we don't have any 10-12 hour missions here. Who's gonna set aside one of their precious Saturday afternoons if they know the deal is wait in the tower until scout4 finds the carrier--or not--then you can take off--or not-- but if you do hope you make it out to the target and back in the allotted time (that's right because if you don't you're considered lost). But you know that right? Heaven forbid the guy flying scout4 discos. That never happens. :rolleyes: Seriously? Who would want that? I'm just pointing this out to you because I can. I've done it and you haven't.
There is absolutely no use for this bird in any of the other arenas. I haven't seen any argument from any of you that says otherwise. There's just no massive area to search in any of the arenas in use. The carriers come from known ports and will be heading generally into an enemy area at which point the actually capable aircraft already in the game will take care of business. The areas of open water on our MA maps are more like bays than oceans. It's not that big a deal. Never needed a dedicated observation plane to find a carrier group before--so why do we need one now? Carriers get sunk multiple times per night when I'm on. What's the big deal? A PBY would make that happen better? Sorry but I'm missing it. If somebody's hiding one--big deal. It'll come out eventually. This bird in real life generally didn't operate in daylight in forward areas for a reason. Each of our entire arenas are forward areas--and it's almost always daytime. Sorry but I don't see the fit. This is a target drone at best.
My problem here is I see a couple of guys just making a lot of noise here about a plane that the rest of us that have actually played this game for a long, long time see little to no merit in having. It's not just me. I'm hardly the voice of the game. Recent additions--I get. They have a use. It's obvious. The M-18? What was the problem there? I'm not a GV guy but it seems the idea is it makes up for it's lack of armor with it's ability to outflank it's targets with greater speed and it does just that. We have regular ground battles using tanks here so it fits. No problem. Lots of people are using it so a lot of people must feel the same way. The Storch? Meh. I think the jury is still out on that. Early beta testers are saying it's incredibly vulnerable to ground fire. So I'll be interested to see how it'll accomplish it's mission of spotting any better than I could from another fighter right now. You'll be able to see farther--yeah I get it. But what good is that when you're description of the tank's location is something like--he's behind that tree on your left--ya can't miss him. Seriously? I know--the idea is to drop smoke on him but apparently you can't get close enough to do that safely. The 88flak looks like a fun weapon and has an obvious use in the game. It's something that's been missing for a while IMO. We're about to add the Me-410 and while it wasn't my first choice in the recent poll I think it'll see a lot of action in the game. Not an obvious missing link but it'll get used I think.
What I see here from peeps looking for stuff like this or night or friggin submarines is they generally don't want to get shot at. Well--we do that here. That's part of the game. If you don't like getting shot at--this game might not be for you. If you want to get better at this game there's ways that can happen. But that ain't gonna happen in 2 weeks or 6 months either. The learning curve is steep and looking for something on the margins isn't gonna make that happen for ya. Get in the game.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v164/Phas3e/PBYvHamp.jpg)
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Beautiful Ranger. Without question.
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Bet none of you have ever participated in a scenario--ever.
Maybe you should check the list of top 10 bomber pilots in EACH of the 3 frames flown in the present scenario? Maybe you'd like to talk to my flight leader about it ? Maybe you know who HE is ?
I've done it and you haven't.
I won't repeat some of the stories I've been told about WHAT you've done ... :eek:
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I stand on my very solid reputation. By all means tell.
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Personnally, I feel that these A/C deserve to be in here even if they are queens. I'd have a use for them * a goon that can land on water * SUCH a dumb idea NOT!
Oh, Can I have a MAVIS too!
I also would like my manual transmission put back in my gv's!
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Where are you guys getting that it would be a "goon" that can land on water? In no way would any flying boat be a "goon". Not a single one of them dropped paratroopers.
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It could re-supply the submarines at night Karnak. :lol
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Where are you guys getting that it would be a "goon" that can land on water? In no way would any flying boat be a "goon". Not a single one of them dropped paratroopers.
PBYs dropped Medical Supplies and Radios / Parts on occassion, I think maybe Guns and Ammo to Philipino insurgents ... I suspect they were used to drop infiltration teams too. But they were never Troop Transports. I suppose the "Goon" is the closest aircraft to a PBY that is NOW in service in AH. :aok
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It could re-supply the submarines at night Karnak. :lol
Which has what to do with dropping paratroopers?
PBYs dropped Medical Supplies and Radios / Parts on occassion, I think maybe Guns and Ammo to Philipino insurgents ... I suspect they were used to drop infiltration teams too. But they were never Troop Transports. I suppose the "Goon" is the closest aircraft to a PBY that is NOW in service in AH. :aok
So, no evidence of paratroopers then?
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I was poking more fun at this guy's complete inability to state a case for this aircraft. He's been grabbing at all sorts of stuff it did in the war which has been generally acknowledged but hasn't come up with any explanation of how any of that might be implemented into this game beyond that it'd be cool. Hell I could get any 8 year old to do that.
He's even attempting to take personal shots at me which I find beyond laughable.
But you are correct, there would be no paratroopers.
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Gotta love you guys. The three of you newbs got less than 2 years experience in this game added together.
actually drano.. i alone have 5 years of experience :furious
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Gotta love you guys. The three of you newbs got less than 2 years experience in this game added together.
Interesting, I know I am not on this list, but just how exactly do you find the PBY so useless? what reason was the storch added then?
I honestly see no viable reason for the observation class, I was simply poking fun at Karnak whose hell bent on not having the PBY in game, however
when it comes to a british plane its almost required to be put in game.
Wishlists are ment to be fun "Wishful" postings, same as someone had for the submarine - there is absolutely no reason to add it in the game, however it
has almost a cult like following, sure add a ship that does 21 knots on surface and 9 underwater, you still can't catch a CV doing 32 knots.
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Wishlists are ment to be fun "Wishful" postings
And for the discussion of the pros and cons of said wishes.
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And for the discussion of the pros and cons of said wishes.
How is there going to be an argument if someone cannot post pros and cons? dissecting the plane for its role is what makes threads interesting,
For example I agree in the statement the PBY would be useless in Aces high - however if Observation classes were added, it would serve useful purposes.
Until those scenarios and purposes get added (not likely overall) the PBY would simply be something flown in one or two scenarios by some unlucky fellow that can't defend himself and fly extremely slow.
Sure I wouldn't mind the PBY added, long as its down on the list around #210 things before that need to be done first :D
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Sure I wouldn't mind the PBY added, long as its down on the list around #210 things before that need to be done first :D
Nor I. I probably wouldn't even put it nearly that far down on the list.
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legit, y don't u guys think that it would be usefull. i mean on the wish list i am seeing all this crap that we basically have already, the 410 is requested many times and it is pretty much just a 110, but bigger...
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legit, y don't u guys think that it would be usefull.
Because it wouldn't be survivable, and the scouting for the fleet suggestion is better handled by any other long ranged aircraft that is already in the game due to speed.
1) Does it have use in the MA? No.
2) Does it have use in scenarios? Very little.
Some people would use it because they fancy a spin in it once in a while, but it would have very light usage. PBY fans hand waive away the similar aircraft, Sunderland and Emily, that might have a fighting chance in the MA because they are not the PBY and only the PBY, despite its gross inferiority, will do for them.
i mean on the wish list i am seeing all this crap that we basically have already, the 410 is requested many times and it is pretty much just a 110, but bigger...
Differences in performance are of substantially more interest when comparing fighters than they are in bombers.
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legit, y don't u guys think that it would be usefull. i mean on the wish list i am seeing all this crap that we basically have already, the 410 is requested many times and it is pretty much just a 110, but bigger...
It's far from a 110, which does 350mph with a pair of 30s and 20s for defense it brings an extra 7.9 in the back - its able to out turn a few planes and defend itself, PBY on the other hand does 125 cruise and something like 180mph? with a pair of 50s and a 30 cal in the nose.
Huge difference in performance and survivability, one is able to defend itself somewhat, the other cannot.
Secondly the PBY is a maritime scout, although it was able to carry torpedoes or bombs if 1 plane is on CAP then the PBY is toast, it can't even run away from any fighter whether its prewar or not, although it does carry ords it does not have a bombardier position so basically its almost worthless in a dive bombing role.
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It's far from a 110, which does 350mph with a pair of 30s and 20s for defense it brings an extra 7.9 in the back - its able to out turn a few planes and defend itself, PBY on the other hand does 125 cruise and something like 180mph? with a pair of 50s and a 30 cal in the nose.
Huge difference in performance and survivability, one is able to defend itself somewhat, the other cannot.
Secondly the PBY is a maritime scout, although it was able to carry torpedoes or bombs if 1 plane is on CAP then the PBY is toast, it can't even run away from any fighter whether its prewar or not, although it does carry ords it does not have a bombardier position so basically its almost worthless in a dive bombing role.
what??? i wasn't comparing a 410 to a pby, i was comparing a 410 to a 110, cause a 410 and a 110 are pretty much the same thing
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what??? i wasn't comparing a 410 to a pby, i was comparing a 410 to a 110, cause a 410 and a 110 are pretty much the same thing
Far difference planes, performance and speed. What source do you have shows they are the same?
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google or yahoo image, that alone could show how they look extremely alike. :lol
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google or yahoo image, that alone could show how they look extremely alike. :lol
They look alike in as much as they are both twin engined, tail dragging prop planes. Otherwise, no, they don't look the same.
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well if you take out the rear gunner and round out the canopy to make it less edgey the 110 looks really close to a 410
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And change the wing shape, and make the nose shorter and blunt, and change the fuselage shape, and change the tail from two small vertical stabilizers to a single large vertical stabilizer, and ect, ect.
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ok then never mind, :lol i didn't even notice the difference in the tails somehow :lol
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google or yahoo image, that alone could show how they look extremely alike. :lol
Spence ... Don't expect these guys to converse intelligently ... they have taken most everything said about the PBY and it's possibility's for use in the game out of context, just like they took your statement WAY out of context ... The 410 has certain similaritys to the 110, it's actually part of the ME development series that STARTED with the 110 for a heavy fighter / interceptor. It was probably the most advanced BOMBER KILLER of the war, thus it is both significant and desirable ... wait until you see it & I think You'll agree.
The 410 appeals to the 1st person shooter mentality and the PBY does not ... It's evident that some people feel STRONGLY about the possibility of the game moving AWAY from that Bang-Bang dynamic and evolving a more Tactical and Strategic format that's less oriented towards BIG TARGETS and LOTS OF GUNS ... But the fact is AH is dying and MUST adapt if it is to survive. The PBY could be a step in the right direction ... But meaning full change will ALWAYS be opposed and I think you can see here just how vigorous that oposition can be. :rolleyes:
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Spence ... Don't expect these guys to converse intelligently ... they have taken most everything said about the PBY and it's possibility's for use in the game out of context, just like they took your statement WAY out of context ... The 410 has certain similaritys to the 110, it's actually part of the ME development series that STARTED with the 110 for a heavy fighter / interceptor. It was probably the most advanced BOMBER KILLER of the war, thus it is both significant and desirable ... wait until you see it & I think You'll agree.
The 410 appeals to the 1st person shooter mentality and the PBY does not ... It's evident that some people feel STRONGLY about the possibility of the game moving AWAY from that Bang-Bang dynamic and evolving a more Tactical and Strategic format that's less oriented towards BIG TARGETS and LOTS OF GUNS ... But the fact is AH is dying and MUST adapt if it is to survive. The PBY could be a step in the right direction ... But meaning full change will ALWAYS be opposed and I think you can see here just how vigorous that oposition can be. :rolleyes:
oh ya, defenitly, :lol, its funny actually, i have always thought that AH was kindov dying. and these guys really have to realize that this is a game, as in like just for fun, its not like you die if u lose or this is a real war, or it is a betting game,, its just ment to have fun, and all these guys take it really to far on all of these things. like one thing that i really hate is when people say that it would not have REALISTIC role in the game,, (its a game) the hole point is not to be acurate, its supose to be fun. like all these people that say that it should not be added into the game beccause it was not mass produced really piss me off.
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Alright I will say I am a fan of the PBY so I really do want the PBY added. And it would be slow. But it would be very nice. Would be like this new Storch for observation but be able to find GV and carriers. And to counter the "why not use another Long range bomber" well it's because the PBY was BUILT to find Boats and recon. Other bombers in the war where built to well... Bomb. This PBY would be nice. And to counter the "why not add Emily or Sunderland" well PBY served more. Flew more. Destroyed more. More built. Used longer. PBY from a historical aspect was more prolific then other flying boats.
+1 PBY-5A!!!!
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It would not be able to find boats better than a P-47N. As a matter of fact, it would be very much inferior to the P-47N for that task.
The Storch can be made to work as GVs are iconed. Ships are not, they are simply very large on a surface on which they cannot camouflage themselves.
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It would not be able to find boats better than a P-47N. As a matter of fact, it would be very much inferior to the P-47N for that task.
The Storch can be made to work as GVs are iconed. Ships are not, they are simply very large on a surface on which they cannot camouflage themselves.
Agreed, the fuel load of the P47N gives it the search range needed as well as 8x 50's to defend itself while flying faster.
Surface fleets also don't have icons, which wouldn't be an issue, also if you get close enough you get puffy'ed from hell so half the time you dont need to spot it to find a Surface taskforce:)
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And to counter the "why not use another Long range bomber" well it's because the PBY was BUILT to find Boats and recon. Other bombers in the war where built to well... Bomb.
Bombers like the B-17 and B-24 were regularly used at maritime scout planes looking for Japanese ships, as their long range made them suitable for the task along with the PBY.
ack-ack
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Bombers like the B-17 and B-24 were regularly used at maritime scout planes looking for Japanese ships, as their long range made them suitable for the task along with the PBY.
ack-ack
Or just go with the PB4Y-2 Privateer, 6 turrets with 12x .50 cals over all, bombload something like 12,000lbs
It was a maritime patrol bomber used in late ww2, not sure how many squadrons were in use, but it sounds like a hell of a better option then the PBY.
I do know a few hundred will built overall (not sure war-wise) and it flew up to 275mph+.
The only kicker was, it did not have turbosuperchargers, so I don't think the plane flew well above 15k.
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Or just go with the PB4Y-2 Privateer, 6 turrets with 12x .50 cals over all, bombload something like 12,000lbs
It was a maritime patrol bomber used in late ww2, not sure how many squadrons were in use, but it sounds like a hell of a better option then the PBY.
I do know a few hundred will built overall (not sure war-wise) and it flew up to 275mph+.
The only kicker was, it did not have turbosuperchargers, so I don't think the plane flew well above 15k.
War Industrys were ramped up and producing surplus .50s and High HP Radials by 1944 and looking for ways to use them ... The PBY Evolved first into a -REAL- ASW patrol bomber (complete with depth charges) and then into a long range ASW convoy escort, but those planes were to late to see much action.
Now ... if your SUBMARINE ever gets added this variation might make sense. :aok
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Or just go with the PB4Y-2 Privateer, 6 turrets with 12x .50 cals over all, bombload something like 12,000lbs
It was a maritime patrol bomber used in late ww2, not sure how many squadrons were in use, but it sounds like a hell of a better option then the PBY.
I do know a few hundred will built overall (not sure war-wise) and it flew up to 275mph+.
The only kicker was, it did not have turbosuperchargers, so I don't think the plane flew well above 15k.
the PB4Y2 is nice and all but it is just a heavily modifyed B-24, and i think that aces high really needs to introduce seaplanes (especially amphibious... caugh caugh PBY5-A caugh caugh) into the game to broaden the horizon of play types
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Now ... if your SUBMARINE ever gets added this variation might make sense. :aok
Last night I had a dream AH added subs. it was pretty cool. periscope and all.
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:rofl, this is an omen that it is gonna be added in the near future,
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you get shot down a squadie comes and picks you up. you land what ever kills/damge you had and no perks lost
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you get shot down a squadie comes and picks you up. you land what ever kills/damge you had and no perks lost
Yeah, but you lost the plane, so you should still lose the perks. Takes away some of the fear in taking up uber ride IMHO.
I'm cool with the landing of kills/damage though for full points
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just sayin, with the storch being added, the PBY-5A would do everything the storch can do, (just that it could land on water as well)
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just sayin, with the storch being added, the PBY-5A would do everything the storch can do, (just that it could land on water as well)
The PBY was most definitely not an army close cooperation aircraft capable of short landings and take offs in rough terrain.
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The PBY was most definitely not an army close cooperation aircraft capable of short landings and take offs in rough terrain.
Fully loaded PBY could take up to 3 miles before it was able to take off from the water.
ack-ack
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Fully loaded PBY could take up to 3 miles before it was able to take off from the water.
ack-ack
I'm curious...
how much Google stock do you actually own?
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What would my comment have to do with owning Google stock? Or are you implying that I Googled that info instead of reading the few books I have on the PBY Catalina and its operations in the Pacific?
ack-ack
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Well it's probably what he would have done Ak :D
FSU seemed like more of a party school than most when I lived in Tallahassee :lol
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+1
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PBY with airborne search dar, or RDF??? Hell yes!
Flying dumbo for my buddies??? Hell yes!
I'd take my turn, just to be a good sport!
+1
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PBY with airborne search dar, or RDF??? Hell yes!
Flying dumbo for my buddies??? Hell yes!
I'd take my turn, just to be a good sport!
+1
No, that would be giving it capabilities it did not have. Airborne radar ranges in WWII were very short and during the day the Eyeball Mk I was superior.
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No, that would be giving it capabilities it did not have. Airborne radar ranges in WWII were very short and during the day the Eyeball Mk I was superior.
I don't recall doing heavy research on the Radar's available during the war, probably need to start digging the info up.
I know many units were using sound detectors at the start of the war, if they were lucky they might of had a radar unit (in the pacific where mountains were perfect like at Moresby, a radar unit could detect Raids out of Rubaul taking off).
Although by this time in the war, Rubaul was a death trap.
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No, that would be giving it capabilities it did not have. Airborne radar ranges in WWII were very short and during the day the Eyeball Mk I was superior.
I think Search Radar was used mostly to provide vectors for visual recon more than anything else. In service PBYs were used to test and evaluate search radar technology as it was developed. RDF was standard equipment from the early part of the war onward. If you examine many of the pictures available closely, you'll note LOTS of Interesting Antenna sprouting thruout the war.
:cool:
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The AVS MKII had a max range of 100 miles min range of 1 mile. First deployed on PBY5s in 1942 with the 2 antenna array 1 send 1 rec. In 43 a switch was added for 1 antenna use and was put in the dome over the cockpit.
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By the end of the war, Lanks and B29s were bombing by radar image of the ground.. USN and RN had Airborne Radar effective enough to detect snorkels.. Just recently I learned that even the Japanese had an airborne surface search radar set.. By the time it was ready for use by IJN flying boats, it no longer mattered.. Wanna find the American Fleet??? There it is, right there, they ain't hidin no more, lol!
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By the end of the war, Lanks and B29s were bombing by radar image of the ground.. USN and RN had Airborne Radar effective enough to detect snorkels.. Just recently I learned that even the Japanese had an airborne surface search radar set.. By the time it was ready for use by IJN flying boats, it no longer mattered.. Wanna find the American Fleet??? There it is, right there, they ain't hidin no more, lol!
I have seen many photos of Japanese aircraft with ASV systems.
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I have seen many photos of Japanese aircraft with ASV systems.
They were very primitive and unreliable though as the Japanese didn't put too much stock in radar development until after 1943 and then it was too late for them. They did have a semi-successful network of search radars in the SW area of the Pacific until we developed the means to detect the frequency of the signals. Specially equipped Black Cats would fly "Ferret" missions to home in on the signals and once they pin pointed the general area would call in the cavalry to take out the target.
ack-ack
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The PBY was most definitely not an army close cooperation aircraft capable of short landings and take offs in rough terrain.
well u get my point, it would be like the navy equivelent of the storch, like instead of STOL capabilities, it would have amphibious abilities.
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it would be good for capturing ports
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it would be good for capturing ports
In what way would it be good for that? It cannot drop paratroopers.
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because if it has the same gv spoting ability as the storch, then it could be used to coordinate a gv assualt, seeing as how that is the only thing that can be used to defend a port
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because if it has the same gv spoting ability as the storch, then it could be used to coordinate a gv assualt, seeing as how that is the only thing that can be used to defend a port
You can't simply take an aircraft and "re-design it" to meet your expectations, a PBY was not used or even in prototype to spot ground vehicles.
That would be like saying "well this <insert aircraft here> COULD of been designed to <insert mission>.
Pby's were used in a variety of waves, and as Moriarty so rightously said "It was not used to spot ground vehicles in world war 2 no matter how positive you think".
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yes, i know that, but u would have to change its role just a little bit to make it more popular in the game, its all about making it more fun to use.
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yes, i know that, but u would have to change its role just a little bit to make it more popular in the game, its all about making it more fun to use.
Or you could just acknowledge that it would be a waste of resources to add to the game at this time and move on with things instead of obsessing over how to fite a square peg into a round hole.
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but it would be such a fun plane to fly that i am sure that it would catch on in no time, cause i know that is gonna happen with the storch
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but it would be such a fun plane to fly that i am sure that it would catch on in no time, cause i know that is gonna happen with the storch
The Storch will have a role, one that was not made up for it, and even so may not used much.
It was also a lot less work for HTC to produce.
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Pby's were used in a variety of waves, and as Moriarty so rightously said "It was not used to spot ground vehicles in world war 2 no matter how positive you think".
Beg to differ, the New Britian Campaign utilized Catalina's extensively to recon enemy Encampments, Supply Routes, and Troop Movement which INCLUDED Japanese TANKS and Artillary. Not sure, but I THINK there were some improvised BOMBING MISSIONS by Cats in that campaign.
:P
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The Storch will have a role, one that was not made up for it, and even so may not used much.
It was also a lot less work for HTC to produce.
The storch will be used, and its almost a requirement once added in game. Aircrafts that carry bombs do not have ground icons beyond 600yds from what I seen in the Beta, which means if you carry ords you almost require relying on a storch for information...... Which makes them a high profiled target for enemy aircraft, as well as wirblwinds.
I am still not sure how aircraft with ords are going to deal with ground vehicles, Storch's will NOT be flying around ground vehicles, let alone close enough to drop smoke. A few 7.9mm hits in a Panzer is enough to down a storch, which I believe storch's will be best used to guide friendly GV's to the enemy.
Its a good class never the less to add to the game, if not, how come so many people bring supplies to tankers? there is no perks involved.
PBY might have its spot some day, not sure for what, but its Aces high - anythings possible.
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:cheers: :cheers:
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I still think this old beaten bird should be given a chance one day!
Still as always +1
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Emily would actually be pretty sexy with all the type 99's for defense. :aok