Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: ap1102 on December 09, 2011, 05:36:00 AM
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Introducing the Fi 156 Storch for the next version update. The Storch represents a new class of aircraft in the game - the observer plane, a.k.a liaison or spotter aircraft. Well regarded for its amazing STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing) capability and great all around visibility, it was a real workhorse but was most famous for its use in the raid at Gran Sasso that rescued Mussolini.
In game it will be available from vehicle bases and ports in addition to airfields. The next version will have a reduction in vehicle icon ranges from aircraft but the Storch will benefit from a longer vehicle icon range capability making it valuable for battlefield recon and support. It will also be able to deploy smoke grenades as markers and can land but not drop vehicle supplies. On top of that it's also just a lot of fun to fly.
Cactuskooler did a nice job on this skin with a paint scheme from Aufkl. Gr. 32. It carries a stork emblem on the cowling. It was nicknamed the Storch, German for stork, because of the long gangly landing gear that resembled a stork's legs.
Isnt that great. Another benefit to the gvers who cry bomb****. I wonder how much reduction? Only visible from .5k or less. Well there goes your attack scores..
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Well there goes your attack scores..
How that?
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With proper video settings, you can see a GV very far away from the air. About the only thing that will have any impact is not knowing what type of GV untill your very close.
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With proper video settings, you can see a GV very far away from the air. About the only thing that will have any impact is not knowing what type of GV untill your very close.
this. if i can actually tell an A/C profile from more than 6K away and see a vehicle on the ground from 3-5K away im not gonna have a problem killing GVs still
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Isnt that great. Another benefit to the gvers who cry bomb****. I wonder how much reduction? Only visible from .5k or less. Well there goes your attack scores..
Not sure if you are clueless or just whining - can you ask a question?
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Introducing the Fi 156 Storch for the next version update. The Storch represents a new class of aircraft in the game - the observer plane, a.k.a liaison or spotter aircraft. Well regarded for its amazing STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing) capability and great all around visibility, it was a real workhorse but was most famous for its use in the raid at Gran Sasso that rescued Mussolini.
In game it will be available from vehicle bases and ports in addition to airfields. The next version will have a reduction in vehicle icon ranges from aircraft but the Storch will benefit from a longer vehicle icon range capability making it valuable for battlefield recon and support. It will also be able to deploy smoke grenades as markers and can land but not drop vehicle supplies. On top of that it's also just a lot of fun to fly.
Cactuskooler did a nice job on this skin with a paint scheme from Aufkl. Gr. 32. It carries a stork emblem on the cowling. It was nicknamed the Storch, German for stork, because of the long gangly landing gear that resembled a stork's legs.
Isnt that great. Another benefit to the gvers who cry bomb****. I wonder how much reduction? Only visible from .5k or less. Well there goes your attack scores..
slightly related, a few years ago, i was down at fantasy of flight. i was just wandering around drooling over the aircraft, when a worker came and pulled their storch outta the hangar. kept wandering, and as i came back that way, a kind of hurried guy with a ponytail came out to the plane, and started doing a preflight. i stood there watching, and he started talking to me for a few moments, took time to stop, and let mom snap a picture, and shook my hand. it was kermit weeks. definite cool guy.
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this. if i can actually tell an A/C profile from more than 6K away and see a vehicle on the ground from 3-5K away im not gonna have a problem killing GVs still
My video card on my laptop is the worlds biggest piece of garbage, I unfortunately have to have my graphics turned off otherwise I risk overheating and crashing the video card. Much as I would love to crank up the high res details, I simply cannot.
Thus being said, It gives me no advantage other then fact I couldn't tell 3k away if its a ground vehicle or shrubbery, however moving vehicles
do come as a "grey block" which actually not to hard to spot (the dust kicking up causes the vehicle icon at 3-5k become a solid grey block).
Other then that I truly wish I could have my graphics set for high res.
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With proper video settings, you can see a GV very far away from the air. About the only thing that will have any impact is not knowing what type of GV untill your very close.
same with air cons. they become visible long before icons do.
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this. if i can actually tell an A/C profile from more than 6K away and see a vehicle on the ground from 3-5K away im not gonna have a problem killing GVs still
I am running 1024 textures with the proper resolution that my monitor calls for and I cannot tell a difference in planes from 6k and from 3-5k distinguishing a gv from a tree is insanely difficult unless the vehicle is moving or firing. So which setting am I missing then.
Not that I care about attack scores but this statement always irritates me.
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Isnt that great. Another benefit to the gvers who cry bomb****. I wonder how much reduction? Only visible from .5k or less. Well there goes your attack scores..
I bet your from the "bomb**** type... Who ups a stuka and flyes 2 sectors only to drop someone...
:rofl
ooopps, duder, no more defenseless kills for you :ahand
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Funny how "almost nobody plays for score" and the first thing you read when a new change comes out is "there goes that score", and "how are they going to score that?" and so on. I'd be willing to bet a lot more people care about their score than are willing to admit. Lusche may say its not so due to his research, but I think he's counting on people being better at the game than they really are :devil
OK, back to the original whine.
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Funny how "almost nobody plays for score" and the first thing you read when a new change comes out is "there goes that score", and "how are they going to score that?" and so on. I'd be willing to bet a lot more people care about their score than are willing to admit. Lusche may say its not so due to his research, but I think he's counting on people being better at the game than they really are :devil
OK, back to the original whine.
Agreed, I like how in the Storch thread people were whining "how is it going to be scored?" A good portion clearly do play for score, however I don't believe they understand how the score system works. Either you play for score, or you don't there is no way to measure it simply because to many pad their score in a sense they will only up a fighter to vulch/pick and never fight, but hey if you want to spend $15 doing this so be it!
I believe shawk said it best "I guarantee 18 of the top 20 couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag".
Then again you don't have to be a tard to get a low score either, simply playing the game and it will lower as experience builds, shame some people simply don't play for fun instead its all about "TEH SCOREEEEE!"
In this sense I can probably name 10 people off the top of my head that won't be flying a storch.
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Funny how "almost nobody plays for score" and the first thing you read when a new change comes out is "there goes that score", and "how are they going to score that?" and so on.
The ironic thing is... the OP seems to have no clue how score works, and how the change will affect it. For a moment I wasn't even getting why he mentioned score in the first place :headscratch:
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In this sense I can probably name 10 people off the top of my head that won't be flying a storch.
I admit it's highly unlikely I will use it in any "serious" way after the intital period.
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I admit it's highly unlikely I will use it in any "serious" way after the intital period.
i dont think anyone will be using it much, after they get lit up by pintle guns.
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i dont think anyone will be using it much, after they get lit up by pintle guns.
As the Storch will have the long GV icon range it shouldn't be a problem to stay out of pintle range?
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I admit it's highly unlikely I will use it in any "serious" way after the intital period.
I was poking at certain players who play for score, in a sense they cannot score kills in a storch so they'd never fly it.
I gotta 1 up Hooter now who killed a plane with a smoke round from a Panther, I have to do it in a storch.
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As the Storch will have the long GV icon range it shouldn't be a problem to stay out of pintle range?
Exactly, the same reason you won't be fly 200 feet from a wirblwind, you stay out of effective range and report where the Gv's are.
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A thing coming to my mind... The Ostwind could see sort of revival. A Storch can stay out of WW's effective range, but the Ostwind is a different matter. And with the Storch being that s l o w the OW could have a good chance even beyond 2 k :)
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A thing coming to my mind... The Ostwind could see sort of revival. A Storch can stay out of WW's effective range, but the Ostwind is a different matter. And with the Storch being that s l o w the OW could have a good chance even beyond 2 k :)
That would be an interesting side effect. I can see that happening.
Wiley.
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Let me clarify my original post. It appears HTC is reducing the icon range of gvs for all other aircraft. For those who up heavy in say a p51d and either drop gvs or engage in dogfighting if a plane is sighted one aspect of your game play is going to be affected. It will be harder to spot and kill a gv from an aircraft. That was the point of my post. I apologize for using the "s" word in the same sentence. And yes I am a founding member of bomb****s R Us and it gives me no greater pleasure in the world than to drop on a gv spawn camper with lots and lots of kills. In fact I drool at the thought of doing so and i intend to do so right after I post this......
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You can spot a gv from the air now out of icon range. What kind of vehicle, not so much. Under a tree or in a barn, you need the Line of Sight icon for it to pop.
But what about, the Storch will benefit from a longer vehicle icon range capability making it valuable for battlefield recon and support
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Longer icon range than now or longer icon range than the "norm" in the future?
Imagine a Storch spotting that Tiger 2 under that tree from 3k up. :devil
As for "score", I imagine it will score the same as dropping gv supplies from a goon or a jeep or the same as spotting gv's now. Zip.
Benefit: You can tell others where they are.
Cost: Time.
Seems reasonable.
wrongway
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I can imagine the OP is upset, there goes 95% of his ability to score a kill.
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I personally think the storch being smaller and slower, will be FUN flying under the trees inside of 1k of WWs. Tank round will not go through trees, neither will WWs. This is the sort of nice change of pace I am glad to see. I wonder if the storch will have a rear 7.7.....?
I wonder how it is going to be scored because of the unique "discipline" the AC fills. It fits in none of the roles, so how would they categorize it?
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I wonder how it is going to be scored because of the unique "discipline" the AC fills. It fits in none of the roles, so how would they categorize it?
I would say put it in the same class as vehicles, because that's the battlezone it'll only ever be found in. Maybe just rename that category so it indicates that it includes scout A/C as well. Maybe Support/Vehicle?
I imagine HTC will just put it in Bomber though, that's where the C-47 is and it can't kill anything at all.
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Let me clarify my original post. It appears HTC is reducing the icon range of gvs for all other aircraft. For those who up heavy in say a p51d and either drop gvs or engage in dogfighting if a plane is sighted one aspect of your game play is going to be affected. It will be harder to spot and kill a gv from an aircraft. That was the point of my post. I apologize for using the "s" word in the same sentence. And yes I am a founding member of bomb****s R Us and it gives me no greater pleasure in the world than to drop on a gv spawn camper with lots and lots of kills. In fact I drool at the thought of doing so and i intend to do so right after I post this......
But what I stumbled over was the term "there goes your attack scores". It doesn't make much sense because..
1. Score is always relative. Changes don't affect only you alone, but everyone else doing the same thing. If it really will be more difficult to bomb GV's, it will be for everyone else too. So your score will drop, but everyone else's will do the same. Overall effect: Negligible.
(When the old strats were removed a lot of players were laughing and predicted the downfall of 'us milkers' in terms of rank and score. Same thing: They missed the difference between 'absolute' and 'relative'... as most players do. See ENY :lol)
2. Bombing GV's did and does 'hurt' your attack score anyway. Not bombing GV can give you a better score!
I think I have been on the frontpage for my attack ranking more than 20 times. I hardly ever bomb GV's, in the majority of tours not even a single time ... ;) :airplane:
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As the Storch will have the long GV icon range it shouldn't be a problem to stay out of pintle range?
if they wanna drop their smoke bombs near a gv, they gonna have to get close :uhoh
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if they wanna drop their smoke bombs near a gv, they gonna have to get close :uhoh
good point :uhoh
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I would say put it in the same class as vehicles, because that's the battlezone it'll only ever be found in. Maybe just rename that category so it indicates that it includes scout A/C as well. Maybe Support/Vehicle?
I imagine HTC will just put it in Bomber though, that's where the C-47 is and it can't kill anything at all.
I'd expect it to treat it like a GV. Everything else seems classified by the hangar it pops out of.
Still curious if it will be able to get assists or how it will get score.
Wiley.
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I can imagine the OP is upset, there goes 95% of his ability to score a kill.
^^^^this. :aok
It tickles the crap out of me to see these guys whine about actually having to earn kills.
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I am curious as to how gameplay would be affected if icons were to not have the ranges listed 5k,3.5k 1000,400, 200 etc.........but only show the opposing country and plane type under 6k.
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I am curious as to how gameplay would be affected if icons were to not have the ranges listed 5k,3.5k 1000,400, 200 etc.........but only show the opposing country and plane type under 6k.
You'd spend more time chasing aircraft and not being able to tell if you were catching them or not. Probably be better for runners.
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You'd spend more time chasing aircraft and not being able to tell if you were catching them or not. Probably be better for runners.
This
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I'd like to see a reduction in icon range from 6000 yards to 4000 yards. Then, I'd like to see a simple + or - to tell if they are coming or going. Lastly, I'd like to see only the generic country ID icon from the 4000 yard mark to the 1500 or even 1000 yard mark and then show the aircraft model. The human eye is not going to be able to tell the difference between a 109 and a Spitfire from 6000 yards out, or even 2000 yards out. At that range, the human eye may be able to tell how many engines it has, but not the specific model. B17 or B24? 190 or P47? F4U or F6F?
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You do know you can differentiate shapes at 6000 yards. I worked on a flightline for over 20 years
amd was often able to ID aircraft types miles away from the field. In addition, my eyesight is nothing
to brag about.
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I'd like to see a reduction in icon range from 6000 yards to 4000 yards. Then, I'd like to see a simple + or - to tell if they are coming or going. Lastly, I'd like to see only the generic country ID icon from the 4000 yard mark to the 1500 or even 1000 yard mark and then show the aircraft model. The human eye is not going to be able to tell the difference between a 109 and a Spitfire from 6000 yards out, or even 2000 yards out. At that range, the human eye may be able to tell how many engines it has, but not the specific model. B17 or B24? 190 or P47? F4U or F6F?
6000 yds is only 3.4 miles. I've been pointed out traffic by ATC in real life at 4 miles on collision course outside of a class D about 1500msl, and I saw him him quite easily (another c172), spotted even before my instructor. bigger planes are even easier to ID at that range. anyone who couldn't tell difference between B17 and B24 at 3.5 miles needs more practice. :)
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The human eye is not going to be able to tell the difference between a 109 and a Spitfire from 6000 yards out, or even 2000 yards out. At that range, the human eye may be able to tell how many engines it has, but not the specific model. B17 or B24? 190 or P47? F4U or F6F?
Depends on the angle I am looking at the Spitfire or Bf109 from. Behind or from the front, you're right. Sides, top or bottom, easy to tell. B-17 and B-24 would be easy from any angle at 2000 yards.
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I am running 1024 textures with the proper resolution that my monitor calls for and I cannot tell a difference in planes from 6k and from 3-5k distinguishing a gv from a tree is insanely difficult unless the vehicle is moving or firing. So which setting am I missing then.
Not that I care about attack scores but this statement always irritates me.
not that hard to tell. just zoom in close, u see a glint of sun, you know its aluminum with no paint. this means american aircraft. then start looking for differences in the profile, if you can see a larger profile it could be a P38. soon youll be able to see the twin booms and you know its a 38 model before you get to 6K. same with 109s. Ta152s long wing is very noticable also. 190s and 109s are harder to tell apart until closer from that range. but if it has a paintjob or a black silouette it isnt a late war american. in scenarios this helps to know FoF etc. just study it for a bit and if you got good eyes or young eyes you'll most likely be able to tell planes apart out to 10K. granted this takes alot of focus and in a heated fight you dont want to take the time to do this
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I am curious as to how gameplay would be affected if icons were to not have the ranges listed 5k,3.5k 1000,400, 200 etc.........but only show the opposing country and plane type under 6k.
Fly in one of the special events that features no enemy icons, or when they occasionally run a no-icons week in AvA. The principle result is that you don't begin shooting at the fantasy ranges available when the distance is calculated for you. Instead you hold your fire until you're much closer, as was true in real life.
It's fairly easy to tell whether the enemy plane is getting closer or farther away.
- oldman
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I'd like to see a reduction in icon range from 6000 yards to 4000 yards. Then, I'd like to see a simple + or - to tell if they are coming or going. Lastly, I'd like to see only the generic country ID icon from the 4000 yard mark to the 1500 or even 1000 yard mark and then show the aircraft model. The human eye is not going to be able to tell the difference between a 109 and a Spitfire from 6000 yards out, or even 2000 yards out. At that range, the human eye may be able to tell how many engines it has, but not the specific model. B17 or B24? 190 or P47? F4U or F6F?
What's the resolution of the human eye? My PC can only manage 1680x1050.
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Fly in one of the special events that features no enemy icons, or when they occasionally run a no-icons week in AvA. The principle result is that you don't begin shooting at the fantasy ranges available when the distance is calculated for you. Instead you hold your fire until you're much closer, as was true in real life.
It's fairly easy to tell whether the enemy plane is getting closer or farther away.
- oldman
You can only tell that at shorter ranges, and that range is highly dependent on what resolution the game is being displayed at.
For what it is worth, I am far more interesting in a situation where we keep our existing icons between 6000 and 1500 or 1000 yards and just have a Rook, Bishop or Knight icon, colored appropriately, at shorter ranges where you can get some visual feedback on your closure rate and visual data on the aircraft type.
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not that hard to tell. just zoom in close, u see a glint of sun, you know its aluminum with no paint. this means american aircraft. then start looking for differences in the profile, if you can see a larger profile it could be a P38. soon youll be able to see the twin booms and you know its a 38 model before you get to 6K. same with 109s. Ta152s long wing is very noticable also. 190s and 109s are harder to tell apart until closer from that range. but if it has a paintjob or a black silouette it isnt a late war american. in scenarios this helps to know FoF etc. just study it for a bit and if you got good eyes or young eyes you'll most likely be able to tell planes apart out to 10K. granted this takes alot of focus and in a heated fight you dont want to take the time to do this
That is all very subjective to the resolution the game is being displayed at.
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That is all very subjective to the resolution the game is being displayed at.
probably. all i got is an LCD and average graphics on 128. not even playing on the game's 256 graphics so i'd think it'd be easier for most :headscratch:
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i dont think anyone will be using it much, after they get lit up by pintle guns.
Seeing as how the Storch wont be performing any direct attacks vs gv's, the AA pintle guns are going to have to track the aircraft and they are not going to have much "time on target". The Storch will be the eyes and ears, and not much else. The biggest threat to the Storch is going to be Wirbles and that is only if the Wirby gets lucky and has the Storch fly in a line away or towards. I know if I'm in a Storch, and I see a Wirby 1.5k out (lets assume the Storh will be able to see gv's at 1.5k), I'll be staying well away.
If you were in a Wirby, and the only thing to shoot at was the Stork, then sure. But if there is a Hurri IID, IL-2, A20, Mossi, and a Storch airborne in the area... the Stork will be the last thing you'll be firing at. The Stork is not a direct threat.
Think of the Storch as being that little mouthy kid that is hard to catch and has a big brother waiting to blind side you with a hay maker.
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The human eye is not going to be able to tell the difference between a 109 and a Spitfire from 6000 yards out, or even 2000 yards out. At that range, the human eye may be able to tell how many engines it has, but not the specific model. B17 or B24? 190 or P47? F4U or F6F?
At a distance of two miles (11600 feet actually, 3733 yards) I can tell the difference between a Cessna 172 and a Cessna 206. I have identified (including the airline livery) a 747 at 12 miles (radar call by approach - 21120 yards) I can easily tell the difference between a B-17 and B-24 at over 5 miles. From 13000 AGL it's quite easy to look down and check the cars in the parking lot to see if that hot skydiver chick has arrived yet.
The human eye is remarkable.
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not that hard to tell. just zoom in close, u see a glint of sun, you know its aluminum with no paint. this means american aircraft. then start looking for differences in the profile, if you can see a larger profile it could be a P38. soon youll be able to see the twin booms and you know its a 38 model before you get to 6K. same with 109s. Ta152s long wing is very noticable also. 190s and 109s are harder to tell apart until closer from that range. but if it has a paintjob or a black silouette it isnt a late war american. in scenarios this helps to know FoF etc. just study it for a bit and if you got good eyes or young eyes you'll most likely be able to tell planes apart out to 10K. granted this takes alot of focus and in a heated fight you dont want to take the time to do this
Except for the fact that all the planes at the distances mentioned look like black dots. I have never seen shimmering from any of those dots.
maybe I need a bigger monitor than my 23" to see what you are referring to.
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That is all very subjective to the resolution the game is being displayed at.
How so? Could you elaborate?
Thanks in advance.
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How so? Could you elaborate?
Higher resolution= more pixels used to render a plane at the same range = more detail visible.
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Except for the fact that all the planes at the distances mentioned look like black dots. I have never seen shimmering from any of those dots.
maybe I need a bigger monitor than my 23" to see what you are referring to.
Unless you buy a real monitor with higher resolution and not just a larger 1080p TV being sold as a monitor, the larger size won't help. I am hoping to get a Dell 27" or 30" screen next year. I'll need a newer computer as well to display at the 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 resolutions of the screens. 1080p is, for comparison, 1920x1080.
Nr_RaVeN,
In extreme example, somebody running AH in 640x480 will simply not get the detail somebody running it at 2560x1600 will. When a plane is made up of ~16 pixels on the higher resolution screen, the lower resolution screen will display it using a single pixel. With 16 pixels you can get a basic plane shape revealing orientation. When the smaller screen is up to 4 pixels, the larger one is up to ~60. I can make a fairly good Spitfire picture with 60 pixels, not so much with 4.
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Except for the fact that all the planes at the distances mentioned look like black dots. I have never seen shimmering from any of those dots.
maybe I need a bigger monitor than my 23" to see what you are referring to.
p38's and i think p51's give off that glimmer........
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I don't have a video card and I run straight off the motherboard with the vsync turned off... I can see your tanks just fine from 8k and below... I think everyone is all upset because they actually have to open their eyes now and actually do something...
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I don't have a video card and I run straight off the motherboard with the vsync turned off... I can see your tanks just fine from 8k and below... I think everyone is all upset because they actually have to open their eyes now and actually do something...
houston, we have a winner. :aok
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You'd spend more time chasing aircraft and not being able to tell if you were catching them or not. Probably be better for runners.
that never seemed to happen in the ava.
just sayin.
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Fly in one of the special events that features no enemy icons, or when they occasionally run a no-icons week in AvA. The principle result is that you don't begin shooting at the fantasy ranges available when the distance is calculated for you. Instead you hold your fire until you're much closer, as was true in real life.
It's fairly easy to tell whether the enemy plane is getting closer or farther away.
- oldman
and you learn to use your gunsight go gauge your distance.
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houston, we have a winner. :aok
winners don't have vsync off. :old:
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winners don't have vsync off. :old:
i was referencing his last statement....the one that is bolded in the quote. :aok
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i was referencing his last statement....the one that is bolded in the quote. :aok
I know that.
Still no winner. :)
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houston, we have a winner. :aok
Negatory. The aircraft I am after should not be able to see a friendly Whirbelwind at 6.00 while on the deck and be able to unerringly lead me to it so that a frickin' ground vehicle can clear his six because I can't see it until I am already eating a face full of 20mm rounds.
I frankly don't care if I can or cannot see GVs from 8,000ft up.
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Fly in one of the special events that features no enemy icons, or when they occasionally run a no-icons week in AvA. The principle result is that you don't begin shooting at the fantasy ranges available when the distance is calculated for you. Instead you hold your fire until you're much closer, as was true in real life.
It's fairly easy to tell whether the enemy plane is getting closer or farther away.
- oldman
The above post from OM is a very accurate observation.
Further I would add that the "gang effect" is also greatly reduced the shorter the icon ranges... The less the icon range the less you will see the "gang effect".. For obvious reasons.
To truly understand why many enjoy shorter icon ranges or zero icons it has to be experienced first hand and the player needs to dedicate and put enough time into developing a new set of skills assimilate to the new experience. it doesn’t take long to figure it out after a bit of time it becomes very simple to id friend from foe it is very intuitive..
Fortunately I have had the opportunity to log in countless hours dedicated to both styles of play. My opinion is not based on "trying" the no icon settings a few times, but rather living with them for years.
I don’t understand why there is so much opposition to folks enjoying an alterative style of play or wanting a change of pace or why folks take sides. Both settings, icon and no icon are fun.
One isn’t better or more elite than the other. Its simply a mater of personal taste. Some folks like dark beer, others like light beer...
For me personally short or no icons.. espesialy Zero Icons both sides reinvigorated my passion for flight simming. Things were becoming the same old same old.
Now days with large monitors becoming very affordable great video hardware and tools like Track ir 5, flying no icon settings are becoming very popular,and have been in many other Sims. Its clearly the wave of the future :)
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Negatory. The aircraft I am after should not be able to see a friendly Whirbelwind at 6.00 while on the deck and be able to unerringly lead me to it so that a frickin' ground vehicle can clear his six because I can't see it until I am already eating a face full of 20mm rounds.
I frankly don't care if I can or cannot see GVs from 8,000ft up.
bolded..........6.00 what?
aircraft have been used throughout history to spot. they will be within gun range, and sometimes not, but they should be able to see them. personally, i'm happy without the icons, although i know they couldn't work in the main arenas.
when you're following a con, it generally becomes kind of obvious you're being led to something before you get into guns range............
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that never seemed to happen in the ava.
just sayin.
What happened in the AVA is that hugging the deck where you couldn't be see as easily gave an advantage over the people higher up who were easy to see against the sky. And yes, the chasing a guy you couldn't tell if you were gaining on or if he were pulling away did happen. You're thinking of ranges that are much shorter than I am.
and you learn to use your gunsight go gauge your distance.
I would like to play around with the idea of not having more than the Rook, Bishop or Knight icon below 1500 or 1000 yards. It is the shorter ranges where our screens are providing perhaps enough information to not need plane type or distances on the icons. In the AVA where you don't have Spitfires fighting Spitfire the Rook, Bishop or Knight icons would be removed as well.
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Now days with large monitors becoming very affordable great video hardware and tools like Track ir 5, flying no icon settings are becoming very popular,and have been in many other Sims. Its clearly the wave of the future :)
Sadly, this is a misunderstanding on the part of consumers. All of the "affordable" large monitors are 1080p, high def television, and the same resolution as a 23" 1080p would be, the pixels are just bigger. There are higher resolution screens available, but they are expensive and need powerful video cards to drive them at the higher resolutions.
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What happened in the AVA is that hugging the deck where you couldn't be see as easily gave an advantage over the people higher up who were easy to see against the sky. And yes, the chasing a guy you couldn't tell if you were gaining on or if he were pulling away did happen. You're thinking of ranges that are much shorter than I am.I would like to play around with the idea of not having more than the Rook, Bishop or Knight icon below 1500 or 1000 yards. It is the shorter ranges where our screens are providing perhaps enough information to not need plane type or distances on the icons. In the AVA where you don't have Spitfires fighting Spitfire the Rook, Bishop or Knight icons would be removed as well.
i flew the ava nearly every night for a few months. with no icons. it was always apparent if i was gaining or not on a con. it was always harder to see cons down at tree top level, but the solution to that is to stay above their zoom alt, and look. you don't look for a shape. you look for movement, or something that doesn't look like it belongs. or you fly down at treetop with them. they're super easy to spot at co-alt.
i never had to chase anyone for a fight in there. i never ran from a fight.(mostly due to the fact that i lost too many very important parts to maintain flight :rofl ) .
if there were furballs, they were low, hard, and fast. and they gave an adrenaline rush. attacking bombers, trying to set up your passes without them getting guns on you, judging when to shoot, figuring your closure rate.....all gave heart pounding fights.
i had a fight with rammey. him fw190...i think it was an a5, me pee38g. i had alt advantage, and blew the first pass, then blew my alt advantage. it was a white knuckle fight, and even moreso on rangers twin rivers map. it lasted a couple of minutes. i ended up shooting him down, but the point is that that fight happened due to the fact that a lack of icons allowed me to jump him.
there was another with a guy in a me109..i forget which one......vs me in a p40e. was a massively fun fight, and i was literally sweating when that fight ended. i lost....but once again....lack of icons made that fight.
shortening them is all that could or would work in the mains. it would be nice to maybe see them cut in half for everything.
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bolded..........6.00 what?
aircraft have been used throughout history to spot. they will be within gun range, and sometimes not, but they should be able to see them. personally, i'm happy without the icons, although i know they couldn't work in the main arenas.
I meant at max icon range in the MA. Not sure what you're getting at here. My lack of caring about GVs when I am at 8,000ft is because I am not dealing with an asymmetrical information setting at 8,000ft, even though it exists.
when you're following a con, it generally becomes kind of obvious you're being led to something before you get into guns range............
Sometimes, yes. He still shouldn't be able to shed an attacker that way. He should be just as blind to the friendly Whirbelwind as I am.
To be clear, that is the direction I am asking for, not for longer ranged icons for me to see the enemy Whirbelwind.
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How can you tell if you are gaining on or losing ground on a dot made of four pixels?
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Nr_RaVeN,
In extreme example, somebody running AH in 640x480 will simply not get the detail somebody running it at 2560x1600 will. When a plane is made up of ~16 pixels on the higher resolution screen, the lower resolution screen will display it using a single pixel. With 16 pixels you can get a basic plane shape revealing orientation. When the smaller screen is up to 4 pixels, the larger one is up to ~60. I can make a fairly good Spitfire picture with 60 pixels, not so much with 4.
Hmm, I wouldn’t agree with you there..
Thing is in no icon competitions the guys that are the "spotters" actually turn down their resolution to see the dots/cons from a greater range.. Its actually easer to pick up a bandit with lower res than higher. Once in combat range 1000/ 800 yards even at very low resolution AC type is very easy to identify.
I’m basing this on first hand experience... I was one of those spotters because my rig at that time (7years ago) wasn’t so hot..
I saw everything before anyone, the dots looked bigger and fusy to me at low res..
Once I finally did get a nice rig with 1920x1080 res and a hot vidio card it was actually harder to spot cons they were so sharp and crips they apered smaller and less noticable.. But the up close 1000 800 yards the higher res fights made for better eye candy, and screen shots but that’s about it .. Personally I’m artsy so I go for the eye candy in spite of the fact Identifying cons took a bit more work, I compensated that by purchasing a track ir..
I can only speak from personal hands on experience. I’m just sharing that perspective you.. :)
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I meant at max icon range in the MA. Not sure what you're getting at here. My lack of caring about GVs when I am at 8,000ft is because I am not dealing with an asymmetrical information setting at 8,000ft, even though it exists.
Sometimes, yes. He still shouldn't be able to shed an attacker that way. He should be just as blind to the friendly Whirbelwind as I am.
To be clear, that is the direction I am asking for, not for longer ranged icons for me to see the enemy Whirbelwind.
yea, i do agree that he shouldn't be able to see the wirbel either.....
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How can you tell if you are gaining on or losing ground on a dot made of four pixels?
it will either begin to get larger, or much smaller, till it's out of sight. also, if there's no relative movement, then it's either coming at you or going away. if it's crossing your flight path, that will be obvious even at 9k distance.
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Hmm, I wouldn’t agree with you there..
Thing is in no icon competitions the guys that are the "spotters" actually turn down their resolution to see the dots/cons from a greater range.. Its actually easer to pick up a bandit with lower res than higher. Once in combat range 1000/ 800 yards even at very low resolution AC type is very easy to identify.
I agree with that to a degree. Certainly the larger dots are easier to spot. It is, however, harder to get information from them, such as closure rate or what their orientation is. I think that likely played a large role in some of the outcomes that the AVA had, A6M5bs slaughtering P-47s for example. The short ranges at which information was available makes the boom and zoom attacks of the P-47s harder while the turn and burn of the A6M5s isn't affected very much by the lower resolutions and lack of icons.
I think it is also telling that no icons leads to shenanigans such as lowering one's resolution. To my mind that is like tankers turning off skins and ground clutter. It is gaming the game.
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it will either begin to get larger, or much smaller, till it's out of sight. also, if there's no relative movement, then it's either coming at you or going away. if it's crossing your flight path, that will be obvious even at 9k distance.
Eventually, sure. But, per Nr_RaVeN in the other thread, the "pros" at the no icon stuff lower their resolutions to make the dots at range larger. There can be extended periods at low res where the dot size doesn't change.
I could also be over emphasizing a few negative experiences.
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How can you tell if you are gaining on or losing ground on a dot made of four pixels?
By using your common sense. Its very intuitive .
Sadly, this is a misunderstanding on the part of consumers. All of the "affordable" large monitors are 1080p, high def television, and the same resolution as a 23" 1080p would be, the pixels are just bigger. There are higher resolution screens available, but they are expensive and need powerful video cards to drive them at the higher resolutions.
I don't agree with that and again I'm only speaking from first hand experience. Its not my intention to contradict you. I'm just sharing what I know based on what I own and how cheap it was.
I have no problems at all my 42 inch monitor is just fine it works great and it cost me less that a 21 inch lcd did 6 years ago. I have no problems at all. I didn't need to by an expensive monitor that needs a powerful video card.. I'm doing this right now and it was cheap it works and its made the flight sim experience much more enjoyable..
There is no denying that large monitors that are fantastic for flying flight Sims are very affordable now days. An affordable 1920 x 1080 is affordable and works great.
:)
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Nr_RaVeN,
Your 42" "monitor" will be 1080p and have a resolution of 1920x1080, slightly lower than my old 23" monitor's 1920x1200. Sure, the dots are bigger on yours, but it doesn't show any more detail.
This isn't something you can agree or disagree with, it is simply a fact.
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Nr_RaVeN,
Your 42" "monitor" will be 1080p and have a resolution of 1920x1080, slightly lower than my old 23" monitor's 1920x1200. Sure, the dots are bigger on yours, but it doesn't show any more detail.
This isn't something you can agree or disagree with, it is simply a fact.
I understand My apology's if i did a poor job getting my message across.
The point I'm trying to make is that the images on my monitor look very very nice I am very happy with the detail. Its amazing especially the way I have my video card set.
I have very high standards, I'm picky and have a good eye for detail, it more than satisfies me. Also the experience it provides is more than satisfactory. It was very affordable too.
If there is one thing that has enhanced my flight Sim experience its my monitor.
I'm simply saying you can have a fantastic quality images with an affordable 42 inch HDTV.
I would choose a 42+ monitor 60hrz @ 1920 x1080 over a higher res smaller monitor any day, the sim experience is far better in comparison to the almost undesirable difference in resolution quality.
I have done it both ways, and the 42 is much more enjoyable for me. Add to that a track ir 5 and a good mid range video card and your enjoying flight sims at an affordable new level..
That's my point, this stuff is getting more affordable every day. Big monitors will continue to increase in quality.. The prices will continue to drop on monitors that are already delivering excellent quality at affordable prices.
When 1920x1080 first came out they cost me $3000. Now a better quality 42" 1920 x1080 60hrz is in the $400-650+ range. I'm on my second 42'er my latest cost $400 and it delivers better images than my first 42 at much less cost to me.
That is why I said.
Now days with large monitors becoming very affordable great video hardware and tools like Track ir 5, flying no icon settings are becoming very popular,and have been in many other Sims. Its clearly the wave of the future
Im just sharing some feedback for those that have not been fortunate enough to try out a larger monitor. They are now affordable and deliver a great sim experience.
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and you learn to use your gunsight go gauge your distance.
This is what i was going for, trust your sight and gut feeling on when to shoot instead of a number to gauge your shots.
Also i was thinking if they did not have the plane type till say 1k-2k out, would less running occur and make people get an ID on the type of plane before engaging?
I have flown in AvA a couple of times and like the fact that the skins of the aircraft come into play and that u can use them to your advantage.
I appreciate the comments :salute
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I agree with that to a degree. Certainly the larger dots are easier to spot. It is, however, harder to get information from them, such as closure rate or what their orientation is. I think that likely played a large role in some of the outcomes that the AVA had, A6M5bs slaughtering P-47s for example. The short ranges at which information was available makes the boom and zoom attacks of the P-47s harder while the turn and burn of the A6M5s isn't affected very much by the lower resolutions and lack of icons.
I think it is also telling that no icons leads to shenanigans such as lowering one's resolution. To my mind that is like tankers turning off skins and ground clutter. It is gaming the game.
you were saying lower resolution= harder to see I was simply pointing out that the opposite was true.
Obviously its a far more enjoyable experience to fly with better resolution for the eye candy experience. Al be it a bit more challenging.
With video quality now days folks are not gaming the game, there is no need to. I was referring to 7 years ago and my lower end rig showing the dots better at low res not stating that this is something people do now.
Further, Its not harder to get information from the dots at all. The closer rate their orientation is clearly ascertainable.You just need to learn how to connect the dots so to speak ;) There are many ways to tell whats going on, many cues that one learns over time. For any a player with limited hours flying no icons its understandable that a person would have issues determining closer etc. It is a bit more changeling at first, I agree
I said the same things myself, I had no clue at first ..SA OVERLOAD.. :eek:..
After I got used to it it became very obvious, almost automatic.... I still stink as a fighter pilot, but at least I know whats going on around me..
Its a mater of spending enough time at it to better understand it. Identifying a friend or foe, orientation, closer rate and so on is a developed skill needed for the no or short icon settings.
It takes a commitment to develop a new set of skills that many are just not willing to make.
Its easy to just try it a few times, get slaughtered and give up. Quitting and forming a negative opinion before any thing was really learned. Its not for everybody, but if a player has the determination to stick to it and not ring the bell it becomes something very enjoyable and delivers a white knuckle thrill. :)
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Nr_RaVeN,
I want the higher resolution for other reasons than just Aces High. Given that, it sounds like you'd advise me to get the 30" over the 27", correct? I have been leaning towards the 27" out of concern that the 30" would simply be too large.
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This is what i was going for, trust your sight and gut feeling on when to shoot instead of a number to gauge your shots.
Also i was thinking if they did not have the plane type till say 1k-2k out, would less running occur and make people get an ID on the type of plane before engaging?
I have flown in AvA a couple of times and like the fact that the skins of the aircraft come into play and that u can use them to your advantage.
I appreciate the comments :salute
bolded.......a couple matches that had the allies at a disadvantage, i made darn well sure that i had a good camo skin on, hoping to see them before they saw me.
the german desert camos are EXCELLENT on rangers desert map, as are the japanese camos over forested areas.
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Fly in one of the special events that features no enemy icons, or when they occasionally run a no-icons week in AvA. The principle result is that you don't begin shooting at the fantasy ranges available when the distance is calculated for you. Instead you hold your fire until you're much closer, as was true in real life.
It's fairly easy to tell whether the enemy plane is getting closer or farther away.
- oldman
Also still fairly easy to tell what type of aircraft it is. When I take a shot at ID'ing them, I'm usually right. Only ones I have trouble with are B239/F4F, F4F/F6F.
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Nr_RaVeN,
I want the higher resolution for other reasons than just Aces High. Given that, it sounds like you'd advise me to get the 30" over the 27", correct? I have been leaning towards the 27" out of concern that the 30" would simply be too large.
Hard to answer that w/o knowing what the other reasons are or-and what two monitors your comparing.
I can only give you examples from what I have observed with my use. I will say that the 'size' shows allot of detail that you may not see on a smaller monitor. lets take skins for instance when i do one on a 42" I see details that don't show up on a higher resolution 20'.
The shear size makes up allot of ground. Sitting 3-4 feet away from a 42 is comfortable. in cock pit ,the wind screen is close to actual size.Working on art work Im able to delve into the minutia, is a pleasure to work on
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p38's and i think p51's give off that glimmer........
They might give off a glimmer but I have never seen it on my computer. I often zoom in on dots as I am chasing them down while they run away and never have I seen or noticed anything different between types of aircraft.
I don't have a video card and I run straight off the motherboard with the vsync turned off... I can see your tanks just fine from 8k and below... I think everyone is all upset because they actually have to open their eyes now and actually do something...
Again on my monitor the only way I can even remotely tell the difference between gv's and trees or any other object on the ground is if they are moving. Again I frequently zoom in on the ground trying to find gv's but with no changes in what is seen.
So again I ask, what setting is it that I am missing? Or is it that need to choose between details and not by turning off v-sync?
btw: I couldn't remember earlier what res my monitor was but it is the 1920x1080 mentioned before and as I stated earlier, I am running the 1024 textures with v-sync on and the in game res set to 1920x1080.
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Again on my monitor the only way I can even remotely tell the difference between gv's and trees or any other object on the ground is if they are moving.
I am in the same boat as my esteemed squaddie haxxor on this issue. I have a 27" monitor at 1920x1280 res, 1024 hi res graphics and detail settings maxed. I can't see squat on the ground unless it's moving or well away from any ground clutter. When using a low end rig, the GVs stood out like big black dots from way past icon range. Reducing the icon range won't stop bombs falling if people can just lower their graphics settings.
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dkff49,
vsync will have no effect on the graphics options. It just keeps the picture from "tearing" due to parts of different frames being displayed at the same time.
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The addition of the Storch, and reduction in vehicle Icon ranges will be an interesting change...
Reducing vehicle icon range will have a large impact on base taking... How many times does the M3 in hide get spotted and killed just because you see the icon at 1.5? Plenty. And with an air battle going on overhead, it's not the place you will likely find a storch flittering about.
Just last night I just happened to spot a large gv mission outbound from 217 to 216. Without the 1.5 gv icon range, I never would have seen them, as I was just trying to get the h*ll out of dodge after porking ords.
Having the storch available at vbases/ports will also put a crimp on vbase sneaks.. giving a defender instant access to a means to scout the area around the base for bad guys.
Reducing the icon range to (I assume) well inside the ww's lethal range is going to be a nasty suprice for many a fp on the tail of a kill at low level..
My only suggestion is that unlike now, the icon range should be limited to friendly as well as enemy vehicles. Fair is fair after all.
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I think there is also a bug on some onboard intel graphics setups that increases the size of the actual dot for the plane/GV from a distance. Instead of a single pixel they tend to appear as a larger block giving people with onboard intel graphics an advantage.
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dkff49,
vsync will have no effect on the graphics options. It just keeps the picture from "tearing" due to parts of different frames being displayed at the same time.
ok
I wasn't really going to turn it off. I had no idea what it was for but the way everyone seemed to be going on about it several posts ago, it seemed that they were saying that is why lesser capable video could see more than those more capable.
Thanks for the info though.
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Who had decided to reduce icon range? :old:
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Who had decided to reduce icon range? :old:
The icon range decider :old:
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I hope a shooting tank will be revealed from air, tracers or not.
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Except for the fact that all the planes at the distances mentioned look like black dots. I have never seen shimmering from any of those dots.
maybe I need a bigger monitor than my 23" to see what you are referring to.
you see a light colored dot it = aluminum. anything 10K or less is visible as a moving A/C and not a dot. 6K-10K you can tell faint differences between A/C that may help you. over 10K u need to wait
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you see a light colored dot it = aluminum. anything 10K or less is visible as a moving A/C and not a dot. 6K-10K you can tell faint differences between A/C that may help you. over 10K u need to wait
I have never seen a light colored dot. only ever seen black ones.
Sometimes I can see the general shape of an aircraft. It is usually to the degree that I can tell it's not a flying gv but nothing more than that until very close and under the current system I have icon by that time.
I am not trying to be smart here, I simply don't see what some of you seem to think is present on everyone's screen. Must be a setting or system failure on my part I guess.
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I for one will fly the Storch and call out targets...cause as a fp I SUCK :cheers:
I also agree friendlies should have Icons reduced the same.
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I have never seen a light colored dot. only ever seen black ones.
Sometimes I can see the general shape of an aircraft. It is usually to the degree that I can tell it's not a flying gv but nothing more than that until very close and under the current system I have icon by that time.
I am not trying to be smart here, I simply don't see what some of you seem to think is present on everyone's screen. Must be a setting or system failure on my part I guess.
even with my old computer, i'd sometimes see a lighter color dot. i usually interpreted that as a "glint"
mostly, i see black dots, but it generally becomes pretty obviousd pretty quickly what they are......
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This is a good idea, but for a few problems. I like the idea about the icon reduction, just have country, but not type, no distance. The problem I see is with the guys using lower end computers that can't run the high graphics setting, or the hi res package. What about the guy running on a laptop with a small screen. Me running a large monitor already has an advantage, not that I mind with the way I fly, but I think doing this would cause some problems for the guys that are playing from laptops.
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I remember reading a story written by Chuck Yeager. He notes that he saw the Luftwaffe birds at roughly 50 miles. All he could see was dozens of black specks but he could see them. My Dad was a fire control director in the US Navy (served on the same class of cruiser found in this game, Baltimore Class, CA-73 St Paul). His primary qualification was his eyesight. He could spot planes at similar distances to the Yeager claim. As for me, got my Mom's eyes. Almost need a mid-air collision to spot it. In any case, very different ranges to consider. I personally think we should be able to see specks much further but not complaining.
Boo
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even with my old computer, i'd sometimes see a lighter color dot. i usually interpreted that as a "glint"
mostly, i see black dots, but it generally becomes pretty obviousd pretty quickly what they are......
I'm not calling you a liar but I have seen P51's and P38's fly away from me and I have always seen a black dot fly away once out of icon range, never a lighter colored one. Maybe you have seen these things but I never have.
So how do I get the lighter colored dots.
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I've only ever seen the dots as black as well.
I use nVidia cards and Windows XP Pro, 32 bit.
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the old midway map, you could see a white speck for Japanese planes a distance way further out then the icons. navy planes show up as blue dot. thats the only time ive seen colored dots.
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the old midway map, you could see a white speck for Japanese planes a distance way further out then the icons. navy planes show up as blue dot. thats the only time ive seen colored dots.
<--Windows 7 64bit laptop running everything except for ground range at pretty much minimum.
All airplanes appear as little grey/dark grey dots at a distance. and I get the phantom Light grey dots when something is within range that appear infront of me, but are not actually at that position.
GV's appear as black specks at fairly long range, turning into lighter and lighter shades as I get closer.
Never seen aircraft appear different (other than bombers)
But thats on my crappy pc, not sure if this helps
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strange. guess its more of a help for certain comp systems :headscratch: but knowing the enemy for 30 seconds more is 30seconds ill take. in a major fight or mission those 30 seconds can be crucial
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At a distance of two miles (11600 feet actually, 3733 yards) I can tell the difference between a Cessna 172 and a Cessna 206. I have identified (including the airline livery) a 747 at 12 miles (radar call by approach - 21120 yards) I can easily tell the difference between a B-17 and B-24 at over 5 miles. From 13000 AGL it's quite easy to look down and check the cars in the parking lot to see if that hot skydiver chick has arrived yet.
The human eye is remarkable.
see that's the problem most of the guys who play the game couldnt tell the difference between a 747 or a cessna 206 even from 5 feet.
as a side note: i flew the spit8 and the 9 for years and I got pretty familiar with it. but i cant tell if the airplane is a pony or a spit from 3k out. I can always spot the p38's. but you put a gun to my head and and I cant tell if it's a spit, pony or a 109. specially when they're moving around. I guess my eyes are pretty tired now since I must wear reading glasses. I play with 3 23in monitors and except for some special shape planes, like the f4u, p38, i cant tell the difference between the rest.
and some guys can argue to death that yes at 6k you can tell the difference between a spit 8 and a spit9 then more power to you. but if you insist on the lower icon range and we lose players because we cant see as good as you can, and keep in mind a lot of players are around my age, then you will be saving 15 bucks a month pretty soon.
semp