Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TheRhino on January 03, 2012, 07:28:31 PM
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I think that the ME-262 should be available with the MK 214 cannon, SC-250/SC-500 and other assorted bombs and WGr. 21 AAMs, if only for fun.
Any thoughts?
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I would like my Hurri Mk1 to go 500 mph and have 12000 rounds of ammo, if only for fun. ;)
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I would like my Hurri Mk1 to go 500 mph and have 12000 rounds of ammo, if only for fun. ;)
why not p47 has almost that many :).
semp
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I think that the ME-262 should be available with the MK 214 cannon, SC-250/SC-500 and other assorted bombs and WGr. 21 AAMs, if only for fun.
Any thoughts?
I don't know about Cannons? But the ME262 recieved Hitler's PERSONAL attention. He was THRILLED with it and ordered that it be produced as the "Blitz Bomber" rather than an interceptor. He declared it would reverse the course of the war. Fighter Bomber modifications and unit organization took time and delayed production and deployment, preventing the 262 from having any decisive effect. SO ... BOMBS would definately be in order.
:salute
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I don't know about Cannons? But the ME262 recieved Hitler's PERSONAL attention. He was THRILLED with it and ordered that it be produced as the "Blitz Bomber" rather than an interceptor. He declared it would reverse the course of the war. Fighter Bomber modifications and unit organization took time and delayed production and deployment, preventing the 262 from having any decisive effect. SO ... BOMBS would definately be in order.
:salute
:aok so a +1 to bombs on 262's guys?
did they get to actually drop bombs in combat?
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:aok so a +1 to bombs on 262's guys?
did they get to actually drop bombs in combat?
Off the top of my head, yes. During the Allies crossing of a river (I want to say Rheine, but I'm not sure), along with a few V1s and V2s as well.
IMO, the only option it needs are R4M rockets because kills were actually gotten by them.
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I think that the ME-262 should be available with the MK 214 cannon, SC-250/SC-500 and other assorted bombs and WGr. 21 AAMs, if only for fun.
Any thoughts?
Rockets?
On 262s?
NO
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well if they were used and it was not super duper rare test only, lets have those rockets! :)
but perk them :D
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An Orkan with 520 g of Hexogen?
24 of them?
Now we're talking. :x
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Rockets? On 262s? NO
The R4M rocket was the PREFERRED attack weapon against bombers ... the 262s liked to approach in a WOLFPACK from 90* and salvo their rockets together ... It was noted that even the VERY TOUGH b-17 was often destroyed by a single hit. The GUNS attack window was very small, even in the "roller coaster" stern attack that was developed and required great skill and experience. At one point Stategic Bomber command declared that DAYLIGHT RAIDS might have to be suspended if the 262 activity was not checked. - USAF responded with an intensive ground attack program against 262 bases and concentrated on destroying them on the ground.
The "Blitz Bomber" was deployed, but it was a disappointment, accuracy was not good and losses were high. Test Versions of the 262 were produced with a Glass Nose for a bombedier and a special bombsight was also built and tested.
:aok
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:eek:
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The R4M rocket was the PREFERRED attack weapon against bombers ... the 262s liked to approach in a WOLFPACK from 90* and salvo their rockets together ... It was noted that even the VERY TOUGH b-17 was often destroyed by a single hit. The GUNS attack window was very small, even in the "roller coaster" stern attack that was developed and required great skill and experience. At one point Stategic Bomber command declared that DAYLIGHT RAIDS might have to be suspended if the 262 activity was not checked. - USAF responded with an intensive ground attack program against 262 bases and concentrated on destroying them on the ground.
From what ive read posted on the BBS along with what some have said, The R4M rockets had an effective range well beyond the heavy bombers defensive fire.
In AH, it would become 262s sniping buffs from well out of their range to defend themselves. Added on how many rockets a 262 can carry, And that could become a very big discourager to Bomber pilots.
When i up a buff, I'd love for fighters to come at me, But i'd atleast like the chance to fight back against them. I'd be so very mad if i flew a 45min mission across enemy lines to their city, Only to get sniped out of the sky by a 262 firing a rocket from well out of my defensive range, and there would be nothing i could do about it. That doesn't encourage fighting at all. Except maybe for the 262 fans who want EZfied kills.
If the 262s got those rockets, then buffs should be able to drop that radar-confusing tinfoil. (forgive my lack of its proper name, I haven't read up on it. Only know what it does from whats been said on this board)
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From what ive read posted on the BBS along with what some have said, The R4M rockets had an effective range well beyond the heavy bombers defensive fire.
In AH, it would become 262s sniping buffs from well out of their range to defend themselves. Added on how many rockets a 262 can carry, And that could become a very big discourager to Bomber pilots.
When i up a buff, I'd love for fighters to come at me, But i'd atleast like the chance to fight back against them. I'd be so very mad if i flew a 45min mission across enemy lines to their city, Only to get sniped out of the sky by a 262 firing a rocket from well out of my defensive range, and there would be nothing i could do about it. That doesn't encourage fighting at all. Except maybe for the 262 fans who want EZfied kills.
If the 262s got those rockets, then buffs should be able to drop that radar-confusing tinfoil. (forgive my lack of its proper name, I haven't read up on it. Only know what it does from whats been said on this board)
I'll bet the buff pilots were mad about this, too...
does not make it any less realistic. Not any less realistic than a perfectly formed vic of buffs that can fire all guns, at the same time, at a single target, in concert ...
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I'll bet the buff pilots were mad about this, too...
does not make it any less realistic. Not any less realistic than a perfectly formed vic of buffs that can fire all guns, at the same time, at a single target, in concert ...
MA is the least realistic arenas in this game. (except maybe the DA).
But i thought the main objective here was encouraging the fight? How does giving the jets the ability to snipe buffs out of the sky without the buff pilots being able to do anything about it encourage fights? its bad enough the 262 is in period. But giving it that ability? For Scenarios that they were involved in, Maybe. But for everything else, a big solid NO
But hey, thats just how i see it von. Dont have to get offensive because someone's views differ from your own.
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From what ive read posted on the BBS along with what some have said, The R4M rockets had an effective range well beyond the heavy bombers defensive fire. In AH, it would become 262s sniping buffs from well out of their range to defend themselves. Added on how many rockets a 262 can carry, And that could become a very big discourager to Bomber pilots.
Good points... I wouldn't consider these rockets as capable of "Sniping" they were aimed only in a VERY GENERAL manner and used against LARGE formations ... Hits would be somewhat random. I would question their employment in the game against single player formations ... in such a case, I'd say the HIT possibility should be in the 2% - 5% range (1 hit per 20-50 rockets).
If the 262s got those rockets, then buffs should be able to drop that radar-confusing tinfoil. (forgive my lack of its proper name, I haven't read up on it. Only know what it does from whats been said on this board)
They call it Chaff these days. It was usefull at night, but served little purpose during the day when visual observation was possible. AFAIK the British had special bombers (wellington, mosquito, etc?) that flew with pathfinders and dropped it ahead of the bomber stream.
:salute
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wouldnt discourage buffs, could make them want to fly with escort squads and fly in groups with more gunners which would result in more realism :)
if you are a solo buff formation guys.... then you will have to watch out
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Good points... I wouldn't consider these rockets as capable of "Sniping" they were aimed only in a VERY GENERAL manner and used against LARGE formations ... Hits would be somewhat random. I would question their employment in the game against single player formations ... in such a case, I'd say the HIT possibility should be in the 2% - 5% range (1 hit per 20-50 rockets).
I guess the question then is how the rockets would react. I didnt experience it personally, But ive heard stories in-game about how the AA rockets on the 110 and 190's used to be very OP'ed and caused alot of angry buff pilots to stop flying bombers. Thats mainly what pops to mind when i think of the 262 getting AA rockets.
wouldnt discourage buffs, could make them want to fly with escort squads and fly in groups with more gunners which would result in more realism :)
if you are a solo buff formation guys.... then you will have to watch out
It would be great to have large formations of bombers. But if your not in a bomber squad its hard to get group flights put together. Along with other problems.
Does the 262 even NEED these rockets? during WWII sure, but in AH, do the bomber hordes really Warrent their inclusion?
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There are some easy (comparatively) additions that HTC can make. Adding weaponry to the 262 is one, adding more weapon options to the 190 family is another. Even adding the 190A-6 would be little more than copy & paste. Not to mention the A-2, A-3, A-4, A-7 and A-9. There is often this one issue with german gear though, lack of documentation.
The community at large seem to be biased against it. The logic often seem to be "Germany lost the war therefore you can't have that, we must win!" A logic which of course can not be argued with and anyone who attempt to have to surrender their reasoning.
So... it likely will not happen. But then, us luftwaffles are used to fighting from a disadvantage and to make do with what is available.
In other words... WHATEVER. Don't hold your breath.
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I just wish German 20mm's hit like a cannon and not a 30cal... or maybe just a 50mm pineapple launcher.
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3756/me262au4.jpg)
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I guess the question then is how the rockets would react. I didnt experience it personally, But ive heard stories in-game about how the AA rockets on the 110 and 190's used to be very OP'ed and caused alot of angry buff pilots to stop flying bombers. Thats mainly what pops to mind when i think of the 262 getting AA rockets.
Any employment of rockets, on any aircraft needs to be tweaked for playability ... I like the idea of MORE Options and NEW Challenges for AH players, but I don't think unbalanced advantages will improve the game.
It would be great to have large formations of bombers. But if your not in a bomber squad its hard to get group flights put together. Along with other problems.
Large Bomber Formations are likely to remain a Scenario Feature. But that's an excellent place to have MORE options (especially historical, realistic, ones) available. I think weapons effectiveness can be tweaked as an arena parameter? Everything else aside, Flying Bombers should NOT
be a cakewalk ... My impression of the game at this time is that attacking bombers is suicide for most players. SOME Skilled and Experienced AH pilots do fairly well at it. Perhaps this encourages bomber missions? But it can be kind of frustrating for the interceptor pilot. I expect the NEW 88 AAA may help balance this equation, encouraging 262 bomber intercepts might be good too. At present the 262 seems to be an exclusive ride that is flown mostly by cautious B&Z pilots looking for fighter kills and being carefull NOT to scratch the paint or risk their perk points.
:angel:
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Unbalanced advantages? I thought we had the perk point and ENY system to negate any such issues?
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Rockets?
On 262s?
NO
Why not?
ack-ack
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the anti-tank version is by far the best vulching tool in the game, the drop is pretty bad but its very consistent (dispersion seems low to me). the massive advantage this gives you over anything with cannons or guns suggests it would also be pretty devastating against buffs. quick to get into effective range, no need to be in the buffs guns' effective range. one for the perked ordnance update I reckon.
( btw I realise that vulching or deacking using the antitank R4Ms depends more on splash not direct hits)
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+1 for 262 rockets and 163 should get them too
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Why not?
ack-ack
Read up.
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I would like my Hurri Mk1 to go 500 mph and have 12000 rounds of ammo, if only for fun. ;)
:rofl :rofl :cheers:
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Read up.
Why are you being so dissmissive? The 262 used R4M rockets and WGr. 21s in the war, it Is historically significant, other aircraft in the game use rockets that are just as effective. How many people do you see in any arena flying the 262 anyway? I see maybe one every once in a while. So why are you so scared of being destroyed by one? :ahand
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Why are you being so dissmissive? The 262 used R4M rockets and WGr. 21s in the war, it Is historically significant, other aircraft in the game use rockets that are just as effective. How many people do you see in any arena flying the 262 anyway? I see maybe one every once in a while. So why are you so scared of being destroyed by one? :ahand
You missed the point. I dont fear the 262. I welcome the challenge of one. Ive shot down a few 262s. Its the fact of how many rockets one can carry, The fact they can kill in 1 hit, and they can fire well out of range of bomber defensive fire. read on what ive already type up for more.
Its historically accurate, but that doesnt mean it deserves a spot in the game. AH does not at all have the massive Bomber Hordes of WWII which called for the R4M rockets. so why even have it? Leave it out. 4 30mm cannons and 500mph+ speed is good enough for the 262 to do its job.
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AH does not at all have the massive Bomber Hordes of WWII which called for the R4M rockets.
Did you participate in the 'Der Grosse Schlag' event? Indeed this game has the "massive bomber hordes of WWII" ... maybe you just haven't seen it yet?
If all you want to do is play in the MA, then please do but don't cram your way of playing the game down anyone else's throat. It's not all about MA gameplay, in FSO and historical events this sure has a role to play. Additionally the 262 armed with Mk108s is a very difficult combination which very few players can command with any success at all. Also consider that if the Mk214 is added as a option, those rounds can be avoided as you see them coming from 2k out, just alter heading or altitude. There are so many gamey aspects to bomber flying currently in the game than I care to mention, and there are some gamey aspects to fighters too... but this is a GAME. If you can't get over that fact, what are you even doing here?
I've not seen any valid arguments brought up against the Mk214 or the R4M yet, all I see is a bunch of whiners who want no changes made. Well my guess is that HTC does want to develop their game, adding armament options to the 262 is one way to do this.
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From what ive read posted on the BBS along with what some have said, The R4M rockets had an effective range well beyond the heavy bombers defensive fire.
In AH, it would become 262s sniping buffs from well out of their range to defend themselves. Added on how many rockets a 262 can carry, And that could become a very big discourager to Bomber pilots.
When i up a buff, I'd love for fighters to come at me, But i'd atleast like the chance to fight back against them. I'd be so very mad if i flew a 45min mission across enemy lines to their city, Only to get sniped out of the sky by a 262 firing a rocket from well out of my defensive range, and there would be nothing i could do about it. That doesn't encourage fighting at all. Except maybe for the 262 fans who want EZfied kills.
If the 262s got those rockets, then buffs should be able to drop that radar-confusing tinfoil. (forgive my lack of its proper name, I haven't read up on it. Only know what it does from whats been said on this board)
How often do you get "sniped" by a 110's or a 190's rockets? What makes you think the Me262's would be so much better?
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Did you participate in the 'Der Grosse Schlag' event? Indeed this game has the "massive bomber hordes of WWII" ... maybe you just haven't seen it yet?
If all you want to do is play in the MA, then please do but don't cram your way of playing the game down anyone else's throat. It's not all about MA gameplay, in FSO and historical events this sure has a role to play. Additionally the 262 armed with Mk108s is a very difficult combination which very few players can command with any success at all. Also consider that if the Mk214 is added as a option, those rounds can be avoided as you see them coming from 2k out, just alter heading or altitude. There are so many gamey aspects to bomber flying currently in the game than I care to mention, and there are some gamey aspects to fighters too... but this is a GAME. If you can't get over that fact, what are you even doing here?
I've not seen any valid arguments brought up against the Mk214 or the R4M yet, all I see is a bunch of whiners who want no changes made. Well my guess is that HTC does want to develop their game, adding armament options to the 262 is one way to do this.
This is where your wrong. If you wish for them in FSO, or Scenarios, then have them there, But dont bring them to the MA. there is no reason too. No giant call for them. Other than people wanting rockets on 262s to make flying a jet in a prop-dominated Arena even easier.
No, A valid reason to keep them out of the MA is that we dont have Bomber Hordes which call for the need of these rockets. Your in a 262, you have 4 30mms. You can go faster than anything else in the game except the 163. You under no circumstance need R4M rockets in the MA at this time. Other than you just wanting a new shiny toy for your jet.
Also, I like how you say the opposition are "whiners", then you whine about HTC not wanting to "develop their game". They probably see how unbalanced r4m rockets would become against such a small bomber force.
How often do you get "sniped" by a 110's or a 190's rockets? What makes you think the Me262's would be so much better?
Alot actually, Ive had b25s taken out by a 190. Granted he got within 800yrds of firing. I have no one to blame but myself for getting killed. He was within defencive fire range and my accuracy didnt bring him down in time.
Also, Have you met fishpot? Find him in the DA sometime. He's particularly skilled with the 110's rockets. Ive taken a few from him.
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(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/128995060456280199.jpg)
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I really don't see what you go on about, and do not understand how you can percieve what I said as "whine about HTC not wanting to develop their game". Seems to me the picture above describe your predicament well. You Sir need to update your logic.
Is HTC not working on a upgrade so that weapon packages can be perked? I think I read about it here somewhere. If so dealing with the issues you bring up, imaginary or not, will be easy. I do not believe HTC would bring such a upgrade into the game if they did not have something in mind.
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I really don't see what you go on about, and do not understand how you can percieve what I said as "whine about HTC not wanting to develop their game". Seems to me the picture above describe your predicament well. You Sir need to update your logic.
Is HTC not working on a upgrade so that weapon packages can be perked? I think I read about it here somewhere. If so dealing with the issues you bring up, imaginary or not, will be easy. I do not believe HTC would bring such a upgrade into the game if they did not have something in mind.
You just dont seem to be able to comprehend my logic.
Buff hordes in the MA are not at all big enough to warrent giving the 262 R4M rockets. scenarios? maybe. other events? maybe. but in the MA? no. there is simply no need for them to be there.
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You just dont seem to be able to comprehend my logic.
Buff hordes in the MA are not at all big enough to warrent giving the 262 R4M rockets. scenarios? maybe. other events? maybe. but in the MA? no. there is simply no need for them to be there.
By that logic, buff runs aren't long enough to warrent having a P51 in the game...
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By that logic, buff runs aren't long enough to warrent having a P51 in the game...
Lol, you beat me to it...
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By that logic, buff runs aren't long enough to warrent having a P51 in the game...
And the problem with your logic, Is that the p51 was not solely an escort fighter.
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And the problem with your logic, Is that the p51 was not solely an escort fighter.
I know you are but what am I?
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I know you are but what am I?
If you don't leave him alone, you won't be able to watch pony cartoons and be in their circle-jerk any more.
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just perk the darn loadout, a pricy perk to use them wockets
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You just dont seem to be able to comprehend my logic.
Buff hordes in the MA are not at all big enough to warrent giving the 262 R4M rockets. scenarios? maybe. other events? maybe. but in the MA? no. there is simply no need for them to be there.
you keep saying that bomber hordes are not big enough to justify this counter measure in the ma's. well I'm here to tell you you are incorrect in that assessment.
just a few night ago there was a rolling fight between a couple of bases, unfortunately for the horde (over 40 fighters) 10 Muppet's a few pigs and some other familiar names were on the anti horde side. well the response that we received was almost an immediate counter attack of 10 or more bomber jockeys with 3 planes each flying in at nose bleed alt and all concentrating on dropping all hangers at 1 air base. this was not even followed up by a base take attempt, it was just a "lets be a *&%$ and destroy the hangers so we can show those guys who keep killing us" type of move.
this is not the first time that Muppet (or other well named fighter squads) presence has received this type of immediate childish response from the losing side of a fight. this is also not the only time that i have seen mega hordes of bombers with additional support from heavy jabo's and fighter escorts attack an entire area of the map.
your logic and argument against the addition is not realistic to the type of horde mentality that has become so prevalent within the ma lately. if the 262 had rocket capabilities then i see no off set or unbalance that giving it the capability in the game would have.
hell show me one recorded instance in which the Norden bomb sight allowed a bomber crew to drop single bombs onto single hidden tanks scoring almost perfect hits on a constant basis.......bet the tanker who drove 20 minutes to get to the fight wishes that the Norden bomb sight wasnt allowed in the game......or at least wasnt so over done......or how about that multi-gun laser targeting system that the bombers now employ....how does the 190 or 51 jockey feel about spending 20 minutes to get to alt to engage the bombers just to be shot down buy multi 50's firing in concert at a distance and with a level of accuracy that would make today's weapon systems green with envy....
so again your argument holds no logical counter punch to it when veiwed in the light of how the game is currently coded and played.
pretty ponies though........... :neener:
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you keep saying that bomber hordes are not big enough to justify this counter measure in the ma's. well I'm here to tell you you are incorrect in that assessment.
I don't think anyone is denying the possibility, but BUFF HORDES are definately the exception in the MA rather than the rule.
it was just a "lets be a *&%$ and destroy the hangers so we can show those guys who keep killing us" type of move.
And I'd bet they enjoyed the heck out of it! Nothing WRONG with that.
if the 262 had rocket capabilities then i see no off set or unbalance that giving it the capability in the game would have.
While I must admit, -I- would enjoy sitting outside 1K and picking off 3 bombers without drawing fire (at least I'd enjoy it the 1st few times). I don't think it would be fair, realistic, or encourage more game play.
how does the 190 or 51 jockey feel about spending 20 minutes to get to alt to engage the bombers just to be shot down buy multi 50's firing in concert at a distance and with a level of accuracy that would make today's weapon systems green with envy....
A very good point, I think this can and should be adjusted a little ... I'm not against the concentrated firepower, it reasonably simulates the reality of attacking a formation, but it may need a little tweaking, especially with regard to accuracy out beyond 500 yds.
There is a similar challenge presented by the BIG GUN in the 410, if a workable solution is found for THAT weapon, I suspect it can also be applied to rockets on the 262.
:salute
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I don't think anyone is denying the possibility, but BUFF HORDES are definately the exception in the MA rather than the rule.
Obviously you have never been here for a MOM
And I'd bet they enjoyed the heck out of it! Nothing WRONG with that.
Having fun or having a tantrum?
While I must admit, -I- would enjoy sitting outside 1K and picking off 3 bombers without drawing fire (at least I'd enjoy it the 1st few times). I don't think it would be fair, realistic, or encourage more game play.
Considering a Schwalbe costs ~ 200 perks, what is not fair? They had them during the war, what would be un-fair or un-realistic about them? In what way would it dis-courage game play?
A very good point, I think this can and should be adjusted a little ... I'm not against the concentrated firepower, it reasonably simulates the reality of attacking a formation, but it may need a little tweaking, especially with regard to accuracy out beyond 500 yds.
A .50 caliber MG is quite accurate beyond 500 yds. In fact, it has a max effective range of 2000 yds.
There is a similar challenge presented by the BIG GUN in the 410, if a workable solution is found for THAT weapon, I suspect it can also be applied to rockets on the 262.
:salute
There is a problem with the weapons on the Hornisse? Pray tell...
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you keep saying that bomber hordes are not big enough to justify this counter measure in the ma's. well I'm here to tell you you are incorrect in that assessment.
just a few night ago there was a rolling fight between a couple of bases, unfortunately for the horde (over 40 fighters) 10 Muppet's a few pigs and some other familiar names were on the anti horde side. well the response that we received was almost an immediate counter attack of 10 or more bomber jockeys with 3 planes each flying in at nose bleed alt and all concentrating on dropping all hangers at 1 air base. this was not even followed up by a base take attempt, it was just a "lets be a *&%$ and destroy the hangers so we can show those guys who keep killing us" type of move.
this is not the first time that Muppet (or other well named fighter squads) presence has received this type of immediate childish response from the losing side of a fight. this is also not the only time that i have seen mega hordes of bombers with additional support from heavy jabo's and fighter escorts attack an entire area of the map.
your logic and argument against the addition is not realistic to the type of horde mentality that has become so prevalent within the ma lately. if the 262 had rocket capabilities then i see no off set or unbalance that giving it the capability in the game would have.
hell show me one recorded instance in which the Norden bomb sight allowed a bomber crew to drop single bombs onto single hidden tanks scoring almost perfect hits on a constant basis.......bet the tanker who drove 20 minutes to get to the fight wishes that the Norden bomb sight wasnt allowed in the game......or at least wasnt so over done......or how about that multi-gun laser targeting system that the bombers now employ....how does the 190 or 51 jockey feel about spending 20 minutes to get to alt to engage the bombers just to be shot down buy multi 50's firing in concert at a distance and with a level of accuracy that would make today's weapon systems green with envy....
so again your argument holds no logical counter punch to it when veiwed in the light of how the game is currently coded and played.
pretty ponies though........... :neener:
:rofl :rofl :rofl well put :aok.
there's no guy that hates 262 more than me, dont really care if 262's are friendly or the enemy. but in the past couple of months the game has turned into if we cant take a base with 40 fighters then we'll bring 20 sets of buffs too. well a little bit of exaggeration but you get what i mean. massive bombing raids are becoming more prevalent now and adding rockets to the 262 is really not much different than having them on the 110.
to be realistic most people wont kill anything except themselves in the 262 so only a few people will actually master the skill to get a kill on buffs with rockets. will it make any difference in the gameplay? probably not, you wont see swarms of 262's diving into formations of buffs. you will see just a few if any 262's just like you see now.
whatI am more afraid is people will use the rockets to target individual fighters instead of using the cannon first. more and more people with not enough skill to fly the 262 will start landing kills just because of the rockets. Outdiving/outurning 99% of the 262's in not a problem, but you cant out turn the rockets. that in itself will be annoying. dweeb cant kill anything on a 262 except if he brings rockets.
semp
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i hear that semp! :salute
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262 is a monster against buffs. I encourage more mass bomber raids in the 10k-20k range. Don't need no steenkin' rockets either. :devil
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Considering a Schwalbe costs ~ 200 perks, what is not fair? They had them during the war, what would be un-fair or un-realistic about them? In what way would it dis-courage game play?
They also had atomic bombs during the war. Guess the b29s should get them now too.
Its would discourage gameplay by having 262s pick buffs out of the sky without giving the buffs a chance to defend themselves. After awhile, the buff pilots will just get sick of it and not even up. Because there would be no point when you got a 262 patrolling the air with rockets that can bring you down without you being able to do anything about it.
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They also had atomic bombs during the war. Guess the b29s should get them now too.
Its would discourage gameplay by having 262s pick buffs out of the sky without giving the buffs a chance to defend themselves. After awhile, the buff pilots will just get sick of it and not even up. Because there would be no point when you got a 262 patrolling the air with rockets that can bring you down without you being able to do anything about it.
This can already be done with B25s, 110's and 190 A5's and A8's. Not sure what the stink is.
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They also had atomic bombs during the war. Guess the b29s should get them now too.
Its would discourage gameplay by having 262s pick buffs out of the sky without giving the buffs a chance to defend themselves. After awhile, the buff pilots will just get sick of it and not even up. Because there would be no point when you got a 262 patrolling the air with rockets that can bring you down without you being able to do anything about it.
ok you keep failing to mention the fact that bombers do this very thing to gv'ers constantly.....whats good for the goose is good for the......well you get the point
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This can already be done with B25s, 110's and 190 A5's and A8's. Not sure what the stink is.
Concerning the b25, the b24 can outrun it at 29k, topping out at 301mph while the b25 would be limited to 295.
Cant say about the b17, I tried looking it up in the front page popout, but it didnt have a number.
The 110 can be outrun and i believe outclimbed too. along with the fact that it only carries (4?) of the rockets.
The 190 can only carry 2.
The 262 can catch any bomber. and someone on the BBS said it could carry 20 of those R4M rockets. There would just be no way for a buff to defend itself against that. You could say fighter escort, But a 262 could still outrun them to the target.
ok you keep failing to mention the fact that bombers do this very thing to gv'ers constantly.....whats good for the goose is good for the......well you get the point
the GV'ers defence is air support. the 262 can get the job done against the limited buff "hordes" in here with its 4 30mms. no need for the R4M rockets to make it an even easier job for them.
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262 is a monster against buffs. I encourage more mass bomber raids in the 10k-20k range. Don't need no steenkin' rockets either. :devil
^ This :rock
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Concerning the b25, the b24 can outrun it at 29k, topping out at 301mph while the b25 would be limited to 295.
Cant say about the b17, I tried looking it up in the front page popout, but it didnt have a number.
The 110 can be outrun and i believe outclimbed too. along with the fact that it only carries (4?) of the rockets.
The 190 can only carry 2.
The 262 can catch any bomber. and someone on the BBS said it could carry 20 of those R4M rockets. There would just be no way for a buff to defend itself against that. You could say fighter escort, But a 262 could still outrun them to the target.
the GV'ers defence is air support. the 262 can get the job done against the limited buff "hordes" in here with its 4 30mms. no need for the R4M rockets to make it an even easier job for them.
All can be negated by a well planned ambush... and a 262 above 20k looks more like dinner than a threat.
Good day sir!
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I believe that the 262would not get the type of rockets on 110/190/109 it's more of a long range shot gun kinda thing with 20 rockets fired at once and there is only an inpct fuze. This make a hige diff compares to the kind we have. I kill fighters all the time with ours you just need to know the dist. They blow up/ when to fore when it's form their 6 or a ho. I if u want it's a known trade secret :). 262 are already at a disadvantage because everyone stops what their doing to puts rounds towards it. 262 and 163 should have their historically accurate munitions they they should both get their rockets.
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get the 262 it's real speed at alt, add some spreadout on them buff lazer guns, then we can talk
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Honestly i lost more 262s to buffs than to anything else (except trees).
One pass on a B-17, let it be any well-planned, can be a death trap if the B-17 gunner knows that you are there.
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They also had atomic bombs during the war. Guess the b29s should get them now too.
Its would discourage gameplay by having 262s pick buffs out of the sky without giving the buffs a chance to defend themselves. After awhile, the buff pilots will just get sick of it and not even up. Because there would be no point when you got a 262 patrolling the air with rockets that can bring you down without you being able to do anything about it.
If I get near a buff formation in a 262, rockets or no rockets, there is still nothing you can do about it but wind up in the tower.
As long as there are toolsheds to blow up, there will be buff drivers to drop eggs on them.
In all reality, how many 262's do you come across in the normal course of an evening vs. how many buffs you see in the course of an evening.
Someone get Lusche in here with a pie chart...
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The whole argument against NOT adding armament to the 262, or ANY other aircraft for that matter, is ridiculous. How can anyone seriously suggest that NOT having a historical payload is desirable in a simulation, and don't come up with the B29 and nukes because that would be the exception confirming the rule. Concerning conventional weaponry it makes no sense arguing against adding it. Those who do must be afraid of change.
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The whole argument against NOT adding armament to the 262, or ANY other aircraft for that matter, is ridiculous. How can anyone seriously suggest that NOT having a historical payload is desirable in a simulation, and don't come up with the B29 and nukes because that would be the exception confirming the rule. Concerning conventional weaponry it makes no sense arguing against adding it. Those who do must be afraid of change.
Because in the end, This is a game. And what happens in the game does not always go by what happened in WW2.
WWII Had massive allied bomber Hordes performing numerous raids a day Which called for the 262 to need rockets to deal with it all.
AH bomber strength comes no wheres close to justifieng their inclusion. Do we have bomber raids? Sure. In scenarios, etc, and in the MA once in a blue moon, But even those raids arent big enough to warrent the R4M rocket inclusion.
One day, when the numbers are large enough, and we have a dedicated bomber force that is launching massive raids in-game that consist of atleast 100+ buffs in a single run, Then sure. bring the R4M rockets in. But right now it seems the 262 pilots want the R4m rockets just so they can down a buff without having to put their precious perked' ride in danger of defencive fire.
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From what I've gathered, the R4M would not badly unbalance gameplay. Since it's an unguided rocket, a simple change of course will defeat the firing solution, save a few lucky shots here and there. Let's look at the facts, the R4M had a 1175 mph projectile speed, about 500yds/s. A salvo fired from 2000yds away would take roughly 4 seconds to get to target. Only the unwary or AFK buff pilot, or one you catch in the bomb sight, would be threatened by it. A battery of R4M constited of 24 rockets, salvoed 6 at a time at 0.07s interval, filling a box 15m X 30m(40ft high X 78ft wide). I'd have no problem with ading them. I suspect they would not be game breaker in any way.
:salute
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Because in the end, This is a game. And what happens in the game does not always go by what happened in WW2.
WWII Had massive allied bomber Hordes performing numerous raids a day Which called for the 262 to need rockets to deal with it all.
AH bomber strength comes no wheres close to justifieng their inclusion. Do we have bomber raids? Sure. In scenarios, etc, and in the MA once in a blue moon, But even those raids arent big enough to warrent the R4M rocket inclusion.
One day, when the numbers are large enough, and we have a dedicated bomber force that is launching massive raids in-game that consist of atleast 100+ buffs in a single run, Then sure. bring the R4M rockets in. But right now it seems the 262 pilots want the R4m rockets just so they can down a buff without having to put their precious perked' ride in danger of defencive fire.
Somehow, I don't believe your opinion on the matter represents what HTC think of it. Their criteria is, did the equipment see action during WW2 in at least squadron strength? In this case that would be a very clear yes. Furthermore, last time I checked, Aces High II aspire to be more than just a game of action and entertainment. It is also a simulation of WW2 air (ground and sea to some extent) combat, and not only that... this game does it to a very high standard of realism when it comes to simulating physics, aircraft handling and historical accuracy. So I believe you are venturing out on thin ice as you argue the way you do. If any one weapon system and/or aircraft threaten to disrupt gameplay (in the MA, mind you) it will be perked. End of story, that's it. See the B29 and Me262 if you don't believe me.
How can you argue with this? :headscratch:
It's also a established fact and expressed opinion from HTC that they do want to develop their game, and continually do as we see every other month or so. How can this be missed by a paying customer who check in more-or-less regularly to the HTC site? Their problem is more of the nature... difficulty to choose which equipment to add, because there is a vast selection to choose from that has not yet been added. Considering their limited staff, this is a problem they have, allocating resources so that they can expand on their product in the most efficient way continually adding content that their customers can appreciate add value to the experience.
You seem to be of the opinion that this particular addition would not add value to the game, however you seem to be a minority. Many here also seem to disagree with your logic, which means it is not factually based but solely your own opinion on the matter. Well we all have opinons, doesn't mean we are right to impose those opinions on others.
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the GV'ers defence is air support. the 262 can get the job done against the limited buff "hordes" in here with its 4 30mms. no need for the R4M rockets to make it an even easier job for them.
well if air support is good enough for the gv'ers then why should the bombers receive any special treatment or protective measures? they have alt and lazer targeted .50's for their protection, and a 51 can chase down a 262 at any alt making his setting up the shot against escorted bombers a very risky maneuver.
face it your arguments hold no reasonable supporting argument. 262's are rare to start with, i am certain that a 262 with 24 rockets would suffer a dramatic performance hit making it an easier target to everyone (even after the rockets were deployed the pods remain) making them undeseriable to those few who would up a 262, thus 262's being rare and an additional loss of performance would translate into a 262 loaded with rockets would be the rarest of the rare.
your arguments dont add up to game changing, the just add up to fear of potentionally losing your easy points..........
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The in-game 262 can run with ~520 mph at usual combat altitudes, 0-12K, and can climb 2800-3200 feet/min depending on the amount of fuel you have on board.
Its a very clean airframe, with minimal drag. Also its jet engines are weak, producing only a limited amount of thrust.
With one flapnotch open, it cant exceed 370mph. I "guess" the rockets would result about the same amount of extra drag, reducing its speed to about 420-450mph, what is pretty much catchable by a high pony.
Here goes your tyranny.
Even tho i wouldnt really fly that configuration, i can see no point why i shouldnt be added.
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The in-game 262 can run with ~520 mph at usual combat altitudes, 0-12K, and can climb 2800-3200 feet/min depending on the amount of fuel you have on board.
Its a very clean airframe, with minimal drag. Also its jet engines are weak, producing only a limited amount of thrust.
With one flapnotch open, it cant exceed 370mph. I "guess" the rockets would result about the same amount of extra drag, reducing its speed to about 420-450mph, what is pretty much catchable by a high pony.
Here goes your tyranny.
Even tho i wouldnt really fly that configuration, i can see no point why i shouldnt be added.
one more thought on this is look how easy it is to rip the wings off the clean winged version of the 262, how much easier would it be with rocket pods mounted to the wings??? how much further would they restrict the high speed dive capabilities of the 262? or high speed turning?
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The main performance impact would be drag I would think, but sure structural resonance is changed as you add mass to it and if not properly analyzed and tested the effects can be very negative. I do not know what the specifics were in this case but all things considered it is a possibility that it was a factor in this combination as the germans fielded more and more desperate measures as the situation deteriorated.
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R4Ms added almost no drag and were in very flush wooden racks under the wings.
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R4Ms added almost no drag and were in very flush wooden racks under the wings.
do you have any documentaion on this, that is in english that is :)
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Personally, no, but this is an old old old topic, and folks have posted the data previously. The R4Ms produce almost no ill side effects when mounted, is the concensus.
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There were also ground attack versions of the R4M, as well :aok
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Personally, no, but this is an old old old topic, and folks have posted the data previously. The R4Ms produce almost no ill side effects when mounted, is the concensus.
well that would be a surprisingly cool thing!
i would think that in the light of some of our plane sets loss of performance to bomb and fuel tank mounts even after the bomb or tank had been ejected that the empty rocket launcher pods would cause drag. although flat the 262 rocket launchers are still taller and much wider than the standard bomb or fuel tank mounts.
i would think also that the additional weight of the luanchers and the rockets (estimated at 150 plus pounds per wing), being located to the far side of the engine on the wing, would be cause for worry until all of the rockets had been fired. this part of the 262 wing seems the most vulnerable point of the wing and tends to snap off very easily......
well i guess we shall have to wait and see what it turns into after (if ever) it is modeled.
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one more thought on this is look how easy it is to rip the wings off the clean winged version of the 262, how much easier would it be with rocket pods mounted to the wings??? how much further would they restrict the high speed dive capabilities of the 262? or high speed turning?
^ what he said! Slow the 262 down, and add weight to the wings that can already be snapped off - go for it. I fly plenty of buffs, and I somehow doubt that many 262 drivers are going to be able to hit the broadside of a barn at 2K out. Slowing them down for the escorts and making them paranoid about high G maneuvers is OK by me.
Frankly, I'd rather have the bomb racks myself but I doubt many people will want to jeopardize their precious 262s doing jabo work either.
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Get an Me262 up to top speed, bring up your E6B and watch the speed when you pull the trigger. It doesn't take much to drop 20-30mph off of an Me262's top speed.
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one more thought on this is look how easy it is to rip the wings off the clean winged version of the 262, how much easier would it be with rocket pods mounted to the wings??? how much further would they restrict the high speed dive capabilities of the 262? or high speed turning?
lol your starting to put me off of the R4Ms :P
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Since they nerfed the elevator authority I haven't even come CLOSE to ripping my wingtips off in a 262. I've even tried, especially tight turns that would used full elevator deflection (still about HALF what it used to be) and nothing... (done offline, naturally).
IMO it might reduce roll rate, but this plane rolls okay as-is. It may add a couple hundred pounds (maybe? I haven't looked it up) but this is on a 15,000 lb airframe. I didn't mean there would be NO impact. Just no impact significant enough to worry about. Like bomb racks after you drop the DT, where they only remove 3mph or so (to make up an example).
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Rockets?
On 262s?
NO
Yup 24 rockets used when attacking bombers.
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Yup 24 rockets used when attacking bombers.
Usually fired in salvos oif 6...
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Two words ladies: perked ordnance.
262s have been around in AH for as long as Perk Points. Obviously, we know perked ordnances are comming eventualy but not here yet, so you can stop swinging the purses for a while longer.