Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: titanic3 on January 14, 2012, 08:57:47 PM
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I know I'm gonna get flak for this, but just asking the community's opinions...
Should the La-7, Spitfire XVI, P51D, and Bf-109K4 be perked?
Even if it is a light perk (1-5). I'm not asking for it (so don't butcher me into the ground), I'm just asking what everyone thinks about it.
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It wouldn't bother me. But none of those are aircraft that I really enjoy flying.
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No, and the Spit XIV shouldn't be either as it fits perfectly in that group. :old:
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Nope they are good as is.
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No, and the Spit XIV shouldn't be either as it fits perfectly in that group. :old:
:aok
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I think it's fine the way it is.
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Perked??? Nah. ENY lowered? Yes.
For all the P51D does well, it should have a LOWER then 5 ENY (3?). I think the 8 ENY value the La7 currently has is too high (should be 5). Likewise, the Spit16 needs to be lowered to less than 5 (4?). The 109K-4 is limited in what it can do, and I dont fly it much and usually do not have much trouble evading it so I'm, thinking it to be just fine. The Spit 14 in no way shape or form needs to be perked. Not even a 5 ENY.
Regarding the Spit14 vs the La7... compare. Tell me what the Spit 14 can do that the La7 can not save for the few extra minutes of fuel. Speed? Nope, La7 wins. Firepower? Nope, La7 wins. Climb? Nah, close enough to call equal. Ordnance? La7 wins again. The Spit 14 really only truly out performs the La7 in terms of range... and that is questionable because once WEP is engaged the range/time of flight for the Spit 14 is drastically reduced to near La7 ranges.
I ***reallY*** hope HTC realizes they are off on this one by quite a ways. Hard to believe the P47N and Ta152 were perked at one time too. Does HTC ***really*** think that people are going to take the Spit14 over any other Spitfire, especially the Spit 16 (sooper haxor crutch plane!), or the Spit 8 (fat better turner and over-all better fighter down low)??? HTC, please reconsider the Spit 14. It needs a perk just like the 109K-4 (it doesn't!).
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If it were up to me:
Bf110G ENY increase to 20.0
Fw190D ENY to 10.0
F4U1D ENY to 15.0
La-7 ENY to 5.0, perked for 2.0.
N1K1 ENY to 5.0
Spitfire VIII to 15.0
Spitfire XIV - remove perk
Spitfire XVI perked for 5.0
Ta-152 ENY to 20.0
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It seems to be a somewhat silly discussion. I can't remember the last time that ENY prevented me from flying an aircraft.
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It seems to be a somewhat silly discussion. I can't remember the last time that ENY prevented me from flying an aircraft.
Not so much about the ENY as it is more about the perks you get for shooting other planes down. I've dogfighted with 110s and 152s before and it's kinda bummy when you get only 1.0 perk for shooting a ENY 5.0 plane down (all of them outperforms the 110/152)
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If it were up to me:
Bf110G ENY increase to 20.0
ENY used to be 20 or 25 IIRC. They raised it so people didnt use it to roll bases NOE when the numbers were high (but now noone goes NOE because of radar) so I see no reason for its ENY to remain at 10. (remodel it while your at it HTC)
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Not so much about the ENY as it is more about the perks you get for shooting other planes down. I've dogfighted with 110s and 152s before and it's kinda bummy when you get only 1.0 perk for shooting a ENY 5.0 plane down (all of them outperforms the 110/152)
I think the better argument is to raise the ENY value of those particular aircraft then.
I've never really understood some of the ENY numbers, to be honest. There are some great aircraft that carry a fairly high ENY value, as well as some marginal aircraft that carry a low ENY number.
It seems to me that some of the ENY values may have been chosen to try to alter certain player behavior that was considered a problem at the time... I think the 110 is a good example of that. It used to be the favorite tool of the NOE base rolling set. But with the other changes in the game that discourage NOE base takes, I don't think it is still appropriate to have the 110G set as low as it is...
I never understood the 152 ENY value... I haven't flown the Spit14 enough, or seen it in flight enough, to have an opinion on it...
It wouldn't bother me if HTC chose to take a fresh look at the entire ENY system and rebalance it according to more recent usage data...
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I think the better argument is to raise the ENY value of those particular aircraft then.
That's what I meant.
I think you mixed it up when I said "dogfighted WITH those planes". "With" meaning I was flying the 110 and shot down a spit16 or an La7.
And it's nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks some of the ENY values are wacky. I want 15 perks when I shoot down 5x spit16s with a 110G dammit. :joystick:
As for the Spit14, I think it's fine at 5.0 ENY, it's more or less on par with all the other late war fighters (P51D, La-7, SpitXVI).
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Spit8 to eny15, spit16 to eny5 and perked? Do you know whats the difference between those 2 planes? Literally, almost nothing, if you can do something in the 16, you will be able to do the same in the 8.
K4 perked? Why so? Its fast and can climb but pretty poor in everything else. If youre flying it in a non-timid way, one of the most difficult ones to fly. In the righ hands it can beat anything tho...
Pony: perking it would just inspire timidity if thats even possible. Personally i would rather get jumped by multiple spixies than one pony, they are as boring.
Spit14: compare it to the pony. The only thing the pony has is range and dive speed. Very strong all around aircraft. Definiately eny5, but its perk price may be lowered.
Ki-84: definiately not eny20, rather 12-15ish. Fast like a spixie, has the best flaps ever.
M-jug: the poor many tempest. Equal to the pony in many aspects (low-alt speed, range, dive, turn rate and radius) while better at high alts, in stability and guns. 3400 rounds, WOW
Spit16: ridiculously EZ to fly. Can hang with brewsters, hurricanes and zeeks yet can catch a P-38, a D-jug or the Gustav. IMO deserves a low perk cost but again, theres the timidity problem...
IMO it would be nice if we had eny3 fighters, like the Tempest, 262 and the 4-hog, perked as they already are.
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huh server lag...
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I believe ENY is not just about how "awesome" a plane is, but also how "popular" it is.
It would not be fun to see a sky full of spit16's and P51Ds, for example. Thus the eny even though the're arguably better aircraft with a higher eny.
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Eny is like a blunt tool being used for multiple purposes, which had been introduced at different times. On one hand it's simply a way to determine perk gain by a kill, so (in theory) it's all about the a2a capability. On the other hand it's being used as a game balancing mechanism (country ENY), and for this other factors come into play.
The two different functions are sometimes difficult to combine into a single numeric value, the 110G is the best example for it. A rather lousy a2a fighter, but a supreme tool for horde NOE's. And thus the low ENY is, in my humble opinion, fully justified.
I could imagine splitting these two functions up, and add a BAL(ance) value to the already existing ENY and OBJ ...or, eve simpler, we just start to use OBJ rating for country balancing too. The 110 could then have (just for example) ENY 20 and OBJ 10 - You get more perks for air kills, but when the country ENY reaches 10, the 110G is still being blocked because of it's OBJ rating.
:headscratch: I think that may be something for the wishlist... :old:
As for ENY representing the "value" of a plane for A2A combat... that will always be a difficult, blurry and never totally 'fair'. Despite several attempts over the years, no totally 'objective' way has been found so far. There is a truth beyond simple performance numbers.
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Hard to believe the P47N and Ta152 were perked at one time too.
P-47N was never perked.
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Eny is like a blunt tool being used for multiple purposes, which had been introduced at different times. On one hand it's simply a way to determine perk gain by a kill, so (in theory) it's all about the a2a capability. On the other hand it's being used as a game balancing mechanism (country ENY), and for this other factors come into play.
The two different functions are sometimes difficult to combine into a single numeric value, the 110G is the best example for it. A rather lousy a2a fighter, but a supreme tool for horde NOE's. And thus the low ENY is, in my humble opinion, fully justified.
I could imagine splitting these two functions up, and add a BAL(ance) value to the already existing ENY and OBJ ...or, eve simpler, we just start to use OBJ rating for country balancing too. The 110 could then have (just for example) ENY 20 and OBJ 10 - You get more perks for air kills, but when the country ENY reaches 10, the 110G is still being blocked because of it's OBJ rating.
:headscratch: I think that may be something for the wishlist... :old:
As for ENY representing the "value" of a plane for A2A combat... that will always be a difficult, blurry and never totally 'fair'. Despite several attempts over the years, no totally 'objective' way has been found so far. There is a truth beyond simple performance numbers.
I like this idea. If what you say is correct in regards to the ENY being more air to air related (but what about the bombers?), then HTC could/should very well wipe the slate clean and start fresh with ENY and OBJ scores and **balance** the two out.
Does anyone realize that the B17 earns more perks for bombing targets than the Ju88??? There are a whole list of aircraft that need to be re-evaluated and scored more accurately in their role. The La7 is the best at what it was designed to do: intercept. It has 2 limiters, and they are not conducive or prohibitive to what it was designed for or what it does in AH so well. The limitations are range and ordnance. But its raw power, speed, climb, turn, acceleration, and firepower are better than its ENY of 8. The P51D, what cant it do? It could certainly use a lower ENY than 5. The Spitfire 16? Nothing needs to be said about that crutch plane, it can make anyone above average as soon as it goes wheels up.
etc etc etc.
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P-47N was never perked.
Never? Just an ENY of 5?
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Never? Just an ENY of 5?
Yeh, it was never perked. No idea about the Eny it has currently but if it's 5 then it probably has always been that, not sure though.
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Keep in mind that if you truly weigh out and balance the ENY / Perk system for every plane in the set, you'll be putting newer players (and older but still less-skilled players) at an extremely unfair disadvantage.
Setting the system up "perfectly" would mean that only the players that had been here long enough (and had scored enough kills/damage) could afford to buy the "best" planes. Even once the cost of a plane has been "earned" the expense to a newer/less-skilled player is much higher than it is for an old "ace".
The cost to both players my be 20 perks (or whatever) but it's a lot more difficult for a lesser-skilled player to come up with those 20 perks. In addition, the lesser skilled pilot is MUCH more likely to burn/waste any perks they put towards a "better" plane than the guy with enough experience and skill to bring that ride back to base safely... As an example, my favorite ride in the game is the F4U-4. I have enough perks to buy them anytime I want to, and really need to screw up to lose one. And if I do lose one it's no big deal, because I have GOBS of fighter perks. Losing a perk plane is no big deal to me. The more-likely result of me buying that F4U-4 though, is that I'll return it to base, and actually put ADDITIONAL perks into my bank.... Compare that to a new player who's just gotten enough perks to buy that F4U-4 (and gotten slaughtered relentlessly in the process). He/She lifts that shiny new plane, heads into combat, and loses it to a guy in an A6M2 or SpitII.
In a difficult game where new players basically amount to being "sacrificial lambs" for a LONG time, only allowing them to fly the cheapest, lowest performing "free" planes while all of the skilled players are able to purchase anything they want wouldn't be "fair" in the slightest. In addition, it would be just plain bad for business...
So in the end, there need to be several different "free" planes, in several different "flavors", that can compete with the best in the game; and in addition, these free planes must be ENY-rated high enough to allow those lesser-skilled pilots to earn some "easy" perks so that they can begin to fly some of the perked planes that they're striving for.
The P51, LA-7, Spit16, etc fit that mold perfectly.
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Is a 1.0 ENY even possible? :uhoh
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Keep in mind that if you truly weigh out and balance the ENY / Perk system for every plane in the set, you'll be putting newer players (and older but still less-skilled players) at an extremely unfair disadvantage.
Setting the system up "perfectly" would mean that only the players that had been here long enough (and had scored enough kills/damage) could afford to buy the "best" planes. Even once the cost of a plane has been "earned" the expense to a newer/less-skilled player is much higher than it is for an old "ace".
The cost to both players my be 20 perks (or whatever) but it's a lot more difficult for a lesser-skilled player to come up with those 20 perks. In addition, the lesser skilled pilot is MUCH more likely to burn/waste any perks they put towards a "better" plane than the guy with enough experience and skill to bring that ride back to base safely... As an example, my favorite ride in the game is the F4U-4. I have enough perks to buy them anytime I want to, and really need to screw up to lose one. And if I do lose one it's no big deal, because I have GOBS of fighter perks. Losing a perk plane is no big deal to me. The more-likely result of me buying that F4U-4 though, is that I'll return it to base, and actually put ADDITIONAL perks into my bank.... Compare that to a new player who's just gotten enough perks to buy that F4U-4 (and gotten slaughtered relentlessly in the process). He/She lifts that shiny new plane, heads into combat, and loses it to a guy in an A6M2 or SpitII.
In a difficult game where new players basically amount to being "sacrificial lambs" for a LONG time, only allowing them to fly the cheapest, lowest performing "free" planes while all of the skilled players are able to purchase anything they want wouldn't be "fair" in the slightest. In addition, it would be just plain bad for business...
So in the end, there need to be several different "free" planes, in several different "flavors", that can compete with the best in the game; and in addition, these free planes must be ENY-rated high enough to allow those lesser-skilled pilots to earn some "easy" perks so that they can begin to fly some of the perked planes that they're striving for.
The P51, LA-7, Spit16, etc fit that mold perfectly.
You know, Mtnman has a really good point.
What if ENY was redesigned to factor in the "score" the player has. For instance, a person with a low rank in Fighters would get a worse perk modifier when flying the low ENY fighter planes and the perked fighter planes would cost more. Heck you could even build a graduated perk cost into planes like the Spit16 etc for the more skilled pilots. In effect, pushing the more skilled players into the higher ENY aircraft, but leaving those P51Ds and Spixteens easily available for the guys who need them because they are newer and less skilled.
It could start fresh every tour. So, at the beginning of the tour, all planes are equally available to everyone, But as the tour progresses and the ranks start falling into place, the better sticks will be pushed into the more challenging planes.
Just a thought. Sure it would need refining, but I think it might have potential.
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You know, Mtnman has a really good point.
What if ENY was redesigned to factor in the "score" the player has. For instance, a person with a low rank in Fighters would get a worse perk modifier when flying the low ENY planes and the perked planes would cost more. In effect, pushing the more skilled players into the higher ENY aircraft, but leaving those P51Ds and Spixteens easily available for the guys who need them because they are newer and less skilled.
I could bail a few times, sit in my plane in a remote location on the ground over night and fire a few thousand rounds at trees. Et voila! - My fighter rank will be around 3000 and can fly perk planes at a discount price whenever I need them ;)
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No!
But a re-evaluation of ENY, maybe "community based" is reasonable. IMHO
JUGgler
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I could bail a few times, sit in my plane in a remote location on the ground over night and fire a few thousand rounds at trees. Et voila! - My fighter rank will be around 3000 and can fly perk planes at a discount price whenever I need them ;)
That's why the system would have to be refined for it to work. There would have to be a system to try and prevent the sand bagging that you are talking about.
What if the perk system only looked at K/D instead of rank. To sand bag, you would have to allow yourself to be shot down on purpose numerous times. Then when you started flying your free Spixteens, you would quickly climb the rank, thus putting yourself back into the perks per plane. So sand bagging your Kills per hour and Hit % (the two easiest to intentionally blow) would do nothing but trash your rank, and not affect your perk modifier.
I think it could work if some thought was put to it.
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I'd at least nerf their ENY. ponies to 3 and 262s to 3.
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That's why the system would have to be refined for it to work. There would have to be a system to try and prevent the sand bagging that you are talking about.
What if the perk system only looked at K/D instead of rank. To sand bag, you would have to allow yourself to be shot down on purpose numerous times.
I suggest you invent an objective system first ;)
As for using only K/D, it still wouldn't work. While the connection between rank & skills is often quite... uhm... weak, it's even more so if just looking at a single stat like K/D. You can be a very bad pilot and have a very high K/D (by flying extremely timid at the expense off all other stats), or a very much above average pilot having a low K/D because you hurl yourself into every enemy horde.
Beyond that, to lower my K/D to circumvent your system I would simply have to bail a few dozen times at the begin of each tour. And again the perk rides will be cheap for me. :joystick:
But we could go the other way.... factor ENY into the score points calculation... :devil
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As for using only K/D, it still wouldn't work. While the connection between rank & skills is often quite... uhm... weak, it's even more so if just looking at a single stat like K/D. You can be a very bad pilot and have a very high K/D (by flying extremely timid at the expense off all other stats), or a very much above average pilot having a low K/D because you hurl yourself into every enemy horde.
Sure the connection is weak. I get that. But the lesser skilled guys with high K/D get there how? By flying late war monsters and picking. The system I propose would force them out of the late war monsters, balancing them back to a position that seems more appropriate to their skill level.
And the more skilled guys who have a low K/D because they fly into every horde and fight 10:1 odds... Well, let them have the late war monsters then! If that's the fight they want, let them have it!
Sure you can bail a few dozen times at the beginning of each tour, but the moment you stop bailing and start fighting, you will climb the ladder of ranks readjusting your perk modifier through simple use. Sure, you will have altered your modifier to some degree, but the goal would be to structure the system so that it would take a real dedication to cheating the system to really, well, cheat the system.
Don't forget that the lesser skilled guys doing the picking and running etc, will slow find themselves in rides less and less suited to that playstyle.
This is just the beginning of the ideas though, a great deal of thought and adjusting would be required to get it into workable shape.
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Sure you can bail a few dozen times at the beginning of each tour, but the moment you stop bailing and start fighting, you will climb the ladder of ranks readjusting your perk modifier through simple use. Sure, you will have altered your modifier to some degree, but the goal would be to structure the system so that it would take a real dedication to cheating the system to really, well, cheat the system..
No, the climb would be very marginal. And the effort would be hardly any at all. Spawn, bail, spawn bail. I could do that a hundred times in half an hour, giving me ample time in cheap perk rides long before I get to a K/D of 1.0 even.
If it's "easy to game score" to get a good rank / k/d (as I'm reading it here quite often), it will be always be a piece of cake to game it to get a bad one... because you don't even need a victim for that.
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No, the climb would be very marginal. And the effort would be hardly any at all. Spawn, bail, spawn bail. I could do that a hundred times in half an hour, giving me ample time in cheap perk rides long before I get to a K/D of 1.0 even.
If it's "easy to game score" to get a good rank / k/d (as I'm reading it here quite often), it will be always be a piece of cake to game it to get a bad one... because you don't even need a victim for that.
Hence, the system would require refinement. Maybe something as simple as discounting bails from undamaged aircraft, or discount bails or undamaged crashes of aircraft within the first 2 minutes of the sortie. Your hundreds of bails would require a real dedication, perhaps a dedication worth the reward if someone wanted to spend such an huge amount of time to game the system.
Keep in mind that the system would require a reworking, so simply looking at it from what you can do in the system right now may not be the best approach. Just pitching creative ideas here.
Would be so much easier to sit in a room with a few guys and bounce the ideas around. Hard to do it on the BBS...
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Hence, the system would require refinement. Maybe something as simple as discounting bails from undamaged aircraft, or discount bails or undamaged crashes of aircraft within the first 2 minutes of the sortie. Your hundreds of bails would require a real dedication, perhaps a dedication worth the reward if someone wanted to spend such an huge amount of time to game the system.
Keep in mind that the system would require a reworking, so simply looking at it from what you can do in the system right now may not be the best approach.
You see how complex and complicated that thing is starting to be even at this early point? And I still have several great ways up my sleeve to circumvent your latest 'rules'.
So in my humble opinion, the results are hardly worth the effort.
If you really want to get "better" or "score oriented" players out of low eny, late war monsters, factoring ENY into score would be a much simpler approach...
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You see how complex and complicated that thing is starting to be even at this early point? And I still have several great ways up my sleeve to circumvent your latest 'rules'.
So in my humble opinion, the results are hardly worth the effort.
Well, it's unlikely that HTC would make the effort anyway. But the system would, of course, have to be quite complex. Such is the nature of it. With so many variables, it would have to be a pretty sizeable undertaking. Whether it is worth the effort or not, well that is for someone else to decide.
First step, if I were HTC, would be to flesh out the system. Write it up, and proceed to present it and ask for folks like you to pitch as many ways to circumvent it as possible. Then adjust accordingly.
The perk/ENY system, as it stands now, isn't worth much. In my opinion. I think it might be worth the effort to explore the possibility of scrapping what exists now in favor of a new approach.
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That's why the system would have to be refined for it to work. There would have to be a system to try and prevent the sand bagging that you are talking about.
What if the perk system only looked at K/D instead of rank. To sand bag, you would have to allow yourself to be shot down on purpose numerous times. Then when you started flying your free Spixteens, you would quickly climb the rank, thus putting yourself back into the perks per plane. So sand bagging your Kills per hour and Hit % (the two easiest to intentionally blow) would do nothing but trash your rank, and not affect your perk modifier.
I think it could work if some thought was put to it.
you going with the assumption that all players play for score. there are many who do but most dont really care. for example me, i love the spit8 and to a lesser the ponyd and the p47n. I dont really care if I get points in those or perkies for that matter. and I bet most players are happy with whatever perks/points they get as long as they fly their favorite plane dont matter if it is the jeep or the spit16.
semp
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you going with the assumption that all players play for score. there are many who do but most dont really care. for example me, i love the spit8 and to a lesser the ponyd and the p47n. I dont really care if I get points in those or perkies for that matter. and I bet most players are happy with whatever perks/points they get as long as they fly their favorite plane dont matter if it is the jeep or the spit16.
You misunderstand. I am assuming the original premise of this thread. That some planes that are not currently perked, perhaps should carry a perk price. I'm saying that perhaps, the system should allow struggling pilots to have perked planes for free and give larger perk bonuses for the skills they achieve, while the more skilled pilots pay a perk price for the better aircraft and receive fewer perks. Pushing the more skilled pilots awy from the lower ENY aircraft and into the higher ones, where if they are truly skilled they can still succeed. If they can't then they would naturally slide down the scale until they reach a level where they can fly an aircraft that they can succeed in...
I'm visualizing a sort of handicapping system, like in golf or bowling.... Hard to describe.
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An ELO system? Higher up the scale, the better you are, the better you are, the less rewarding 5.0 ENY planes are. And vice versa.
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An ELO system? Higher up the scale, the better you are, the better you are, the less rewarding 5.0 ENY planes are. And vice versa.
Ya, sort of... And the better your K/D the more the perk planes cost, and maybe even adds perk costs to the better planes that currently are unperked... So, Bruv might have to pay a perk price to fly the Spixteen and earn very few perks per kill in it... But the new guy would have access to the Spixteen without a perk price and earn more perks per kill. As the new guy improves, he will earn fewer and fewer perks per kill ni that Spit16, until he eventually reaches a level where he must pay a perk price to fly the Spit16...
Keep in mind these are just rough examples and the system would require a great deal of thought to develope.
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I'm taking this based off another game.
Have a scale of 1-2000. In the beginning of a tour, everyone's ELO is set at 1200. Once you start flying, your ELO drops or rises, based on kills, deaths, ditches, or landed. HTC can set up the scale based on what he thinks is right.
For example: 1-400 means 10.0 ENY and no perk price for a Spit6
401-800 means 5.0 ENY and no perk price
801-1200 means 5.0 ENY and 2 perks
1201-1600 means 3.0 ENY and 5 perks
1601-1800 means 2.0 ENY and 5 perks
1801-2000 means 1.0 ENY and 8 perks
The more lands or kills you get in a row, the lower the ELO gain you get. So if you were to die on your 2nd sortie, you would lose 10 ELO, but if you died on your 8th successful sortie, you would lose 30 ELO. And vice versa for death streaks.
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The only problem with this is it kinda result in more timid gameplay. But hey, if they don't kill, their ELO goes nowhere.
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I say perk the spit 16 and the La-7.
Spitfire because..... well I just don't like them, and it would be nice to see fewer.
La-7 because its a mere 6mph slower than the tempest at sea level, and while its max speed is ~20mph slower, the tempest isn't a speed demon at altitude either, there are several perk-free planes with out preform it. The tempest is perked equal to the Me 163.
The La-7 has 1 less cannon, and carries less ord. But in exchange for that, it gets better manuverability, better roll rate, and better low speed stability.
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:x :x I think what you are wearing should increase the Perkies! :x :x
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An ELO system? Higher up the scale, the better you are, the better you are, the less rewarding 5.0 ENY planes are. And vice versa.
We have a better system - the community knows who the decent sticks are, and generally most don't sit in 5 eny rides.
Some do I'm sure, I know Hymi is a crafty Spit16 pilot for example, but he will give you a very good dogfight.
I mainly fly anything above 20 Eny for kicks, what good is limiting my 5 eny rides? nothing - except when I see a horde and want to up a 262 I can't now.
This system would be to much and ultimately cause to many problems, we have an ENY system now and it works, I suggested a while back of raising the
ENY to 60 for example, which means Lower ENY aircraft score no perks - and high ones are well rewarded - and even at 40 ENY - its still pretty nice - 8 perks for nailing a P51 or Such, however I think raising the ENY a little would be better off since Its pretty tough to catch a 190D9 or 51 unless you have alt.
I suggested also re-scaling the ENY list - 5eny to 60eny - the Main rides get bumped to 5 Eny, and everything else re-vamped.
Using Lusche's ride statistic pretty much says what ENY the plane will be, more use the plane gets - the lower ENY, this would force some
who want perks to actually step out of the cheap kills, and learn.
Frankly the perk system won't matter to any veteran pilots, I have roughly above 7,000 fighter perks and 3900 GV perks, I would love to see some more perk rides to spend $$$ on.
Edit: For example a 4x hispano P-51 for lets say 40-50 perks? (just an idea)
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I'm taking this based off another game.
Have a scale of 1-2000. In the beginning of a tour, everyone's ELO is set at 1200. Once you start flying, your ELO drops or rises, based on kills, deaths, ditches, or landed. HTC can set up the scale based on what he thinks is right.
For example: 1-400 means 10.0 ENY and no perk price for a Spit6
401-800 means 5.0 ENY and no perk price
801-1200 means 5.0 ENY and 2 perks
1201-1600 means 3.0 ENY and 5 perks
1601-1800 means 2.0 ENY and 5 perks
1801-2000 means 1.0 ENY and 8 perks
The more lands or kills you get in a row, the lower the ELO gain you get. So if you were to die on your 2nd sortie, you would lose 10 ELO, but if you died on your 8th successful sortie, you would lose 30 ELO. And vice versa for death streaks.
is that overrall rank or fighter rank?
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if anything, I am of th opinion that the spit 14 should be 5 eny or rather that perks should only be used on those planes that are clearly imba. With a 5 eny you have to shoot down a lot of planes to make it worth while.
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is that overrall rank or fighter rank?
One for each (FTR, BMB, GVs) would be the best, but that means more work for HTC if they were to put it in.
And Butcher, If my ELO idea actually gets used, everyone will be back to square one. I'm sure the community can vote on whether or not we should lose our perks (though I'm sure most if not all won't mind).
As for raising the ENY cap to 60.0, I don't think that's needed. The perks you get for shooting a 5.0 ENY plane down with a 40.0 is already a lot, raising it to 60.0 would mean you'd get ridiculous amounts of perks for just one or two kills. If my ELO idea gets used, not only will the vets be encouraged to fly the more challenging planes, the newbies will have constant access to the more "uber" rides, giving them the best opportunity to learn the basics without fear of getting destroyed by a veteran in the same "uber" ride.
Long story short: High ELO players will be encouraged to fly the more challenging planes. Low ELO players will be able to learn the basics without fear of getting ripped to shreds by a higher ELO vet. As it is right now, you can't tell whether or not a Spit16 is a vet or a newbie. With the ELO system, there's a more likely chance that it is a newbie and there's a higher chance that 109E or P40C is a pro.
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if the la7 isnt worth perking , then we can have 'em all prop planes free including 450mph b29s in set of 3-9 and tempies with automatic wingman.
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Butcher, I would agree with you there. But I also think that if the ENY range were changed to 60, it would be a good oportunity to change it so that it kicks in gently at first, but then if you really get a big numbers advantage it beats you over the head with the ENY-restrictions bat.
Titanic, I don't think that limiting the good players is such a good idea. Often times, the only good aircraft of a certian type are low ENY. For example, if I can only fly ENY 25+ aircraft, I can't really do a good jabo run. Only planes I can fly that carry more than 500kg of ord are the P-38G (I physicly can't fly P-38's for some reason), the Mossie, and the 190F8.
Why shouldn't I be able to take out a P-47 D-25 if I want to? Its what the $15/mo fee is for, right?
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as a dweeb i would nevertheless like the spit16, la7 and p51d to be perked (i know it won't happen, but i'd definitely be in favour)
instead of the k4 i would say perk the dora though
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as a dweeb i would nevertheless like the spit16, la7 and p51d to be perked (i know it won't happen, but i'd definitely be in favour)
instead of the k4 i would say perk the dora though
Wow somewhere i can understand Coombzy!
Still, theres the timidness problem. Arent most of the dora dudes already timid enough? : (
Decreasing its eny, yes, to 10 (if the pony is 5, it should be one level behind the pony). Perking it? Nope, ty.
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What about guys who have a 11 to 1 k/d in high eny rides, how would they figure in?
Keep the 51, spit 16, and la 7 unperked. It does gives the new player a chance at success. I know I needed the spit 16 when I was starting out, even so it was still frustrating.
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TankAce, you can still fly whatever plane you wish if you're the type of person that doesn't care about score, you just have to pay little extra. And with all respect, who knows? You or I may not be in the top 1600+ ELO at all.
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What about guys who have a 11 to 1 k/d in high eny rides, how would they figure in?
Keep the 51, spit 16, and la 7 unperked. It does gives the new player a chance at success. I know I needed the spit 16 when I was starting out, even so it was still frustrating.
It wouldn't affect them. They would still have access to their high ENY rides. That said, I would expect planes like the 190D and 109k4 to be shifted lower on the ENY scale.
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ELO?
ELO and similar type rankings come from totally different games: Two players meet and face each other on (almost) same terms, playing under very strict rules. A chess player won't suddenly be joined by 4 of his friends bringing their of playing pieces with them to thrash the suddenly outnumbered opponent.
The MA environment is too complex, and the set of 'rules' is way too slack for such a thing (actually, beyond some very basic 'play nice, folks' rules, everyone is flying by his own rules there.). That's why score is rather meaningless and (fortunately) does not play any role in the game beyond commanding a CV task group. And I don't think it's a good idea to increase the importance of score beyond that point.
I can only see such an 'ELO' system going to work in a supervised and heavily ruled duelling setting.
I repeat myself - wanna see 'top players' using more high ENY planes? Make ENY part of the score calculation :)
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I could see ENY being factored into damage points without too much trouble, would you extend it to kills and deaths too?
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as a dweeb i would nevertheless like the spit16, la7 and p51d to be perked (i know it won't happen, but i'd definitely be in favour)
instead of the k4 i would say perk the dora though
Why? Takes a pretty skilled pilot to fly the dora succesfully. You need to have good SA, be good at deflection shooting, and know when to egress to build some alt. Most only have the third down.
TankAce, you can still fly whatever plane you wish if you're the type of person that doesn't care about score, you just have to pay little extra. And with all respect, who knows? You or I may not be in the top 1600+ ELO at all.
You miss the point though. We would have to instigate attack perks as a seperate category, and have the perk price of planes adjust based on whether you're in attack mode or fighter mode, otherwise you're screwing over the good players. And that would be abused as well. Just hit attack and load up some rocekts, and you've got a free fighter that would otherwise be perked.
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ENY rarely if ever affects the plane of choice for me.
Fly a plane on down the list and you wont have to be bothered by ENY.
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I could see ENY being factored into damage points without too much trouble, would you extend it to kills and deaths too?
No, never. A kill is a kill. :old:
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:aok
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ENY rarely if ever affects the plane of choice for me.
Fly a plane on down the list and you wont have to be bothered by ENY.
I can't remember it affecting me either. I also can't recall the ENY of the plane/planes I'm fighting affecting me.
It probably also helps that I generally base which team I fly on by choosing to fly for the team with the fewest players.
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ENY never really affects me either, it's just that ENY is a big factor when gaining perks. If I shoot a N1K or a Spit16 down with a 110G or a Ta152, I think I deserve more than just 1.0 perk, sometimes even less. Some of the planes need to have their ENY changed because when compared to other planes, they are completely out matched yet gets more or less the same amount of reward for shooting another plane down.
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ENY never really affects me either, it's just that ENY is a big factor when gaining perks. If I shoot a N1K or a Spit16 down with a 110G or a Ta152, I think I deserve more than just 1.0 perk, sometimes even less. Some of the planes need to have their ENY changed because when compared to other planes, they are completely out matched yet gets more or less the same amount of reward for shooting another plane down.
Once you quit worrying about perks and just fly, you will start building more.
If your worrying about perks your flying the wrong planes.
I rarely use perks, I don't worry about perks. I have over 30,000 perks. I know folks who have more.........................
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Regarding the Spit14 vs the La7... compare. Tell me what the Spit 14 can do that the La7 can not save for the few extra minutes of fuel. Speed? Nope, La7 wins. Firepower? Nope, La7 wins. Climb? Nah, close enough to call equal. Ordnance? La7 wins again. The Spit 14 really only truly out performs the La7 in terms of range... and that is questionable because once WEP is engaged the range/time of flight for the Spit 14 is drastically reduced to near La7 ranges.
Hogwash
The Spit14 is faster than Lala over 15K (more so the higher you go) and it climbs better at all alts. See this http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=spit14&p2=la7 (http://www.gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php?p1=spit14&p2=la7)
My personal opinion is the Lala has crap cannons. I would rather have the 20mm.50 combination. If it wasn't for the perk, it would be my ride of choice when the vhorde hits....