Perks Worthy

[Debrody]

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[MK-84]

I believe ENY is not just about how "awesome" a plane is, but also how "popular" it is.

It would not be fun to see a sky full of spit16's and P51Ds, for example.  Thus the eny even though the're arguably better aircraft with a higher eny.

[Lusche]

Eny is like a blunt tool being used for multiple purposes, which had been introduced at different times. On one hand it's simply a way to determine perk gain by a kill, so (in theory) it's all about the a2a capability. On the other hand it's being used as a game balancing mechanism (country ENY), and for this other factors come into play.
The two different functions are sometimes difficult to combine into a single numeric value, the 110G is the best example for it. A rather lousy a2a fighter, but a supreme tool for horde NOE's. And thus the low ENY is, in my humble opinion, fully justified.

I could imagine splitting these two functions up, and add a BAL(ance) value to the already existing ENY and OBJ ...or, eve simpler, we just start to use OBJ rating for country balancing too. The 110 could then have (just for example) ENY 20 and OBJ 10 - You get more perks for air kills,  but when the country ENY reaches 10, the 110G is still being blocked because of it's OBJ rating.


  I think that may be something for the wishlist...  


As for ENY representing the "value" of a plane for A2A combat... that will always be a difficult, blurry and never totally 'fair'. Despite several attempts over the years, no totally 'objective' way has been found so far. There is a truth beyond simple performance numbers.

[Wmaker]

Hard to believe the P47N and Ta152 were perked at one time too.

P-47N was never perked.

[SmokinLoon]

Eny is like a blunt tool being used for multiple purposes, which had been introduced at different times. On one hand it's simply a way to determine perk gain by a kill, so (in theory) it's all about the a2a capability. On the other hand it's being used as a game balancing mechanism (country ENY), and for this other factors come into play.
The two different functions are sometimes difficult to combine into a single numeric value, the 110G is the best example for it. A rather lousy a2a fighter, but a supreme tool for horde NOE's. And thus the low ENY is, in my humble opinion, fully justified.
I could imagine splitting these two functions up, and add a BAL(ance) value to the already existing ENY and OBJ ...or, eve simpler, we just start to use OBJ rating for country balancing too. The 110 could then have (just for example) ENY 20 and OBJ 10 - You get more perks for air kills,  but when the country ENY reaches 10, the 110G is still being blocked because of it's OBJ rating.
I think that may be something for the wishlist...  
As for ENY representing the "value" of a plane for A2A combat... that will always be a difficult, blurry and never totally 'fair'. Despite several attempts over the years, no totally 'objective' way has been found so far. There is a truth beyond simple performance numbers.

I like this idea.  If what you say is correct in regards to the ENY being more air to air related (but what about the bombers?), then HTC could/should very well wipe the slate clean and start fresh with ENY and OBJ scores and **balance** the two out. 

Does anyone realize that the B17 earns more perks for bombing targets than the Ju88???  There are a whole list of aircraft that need to be re-evaluated and scored more accurately in their role.  The La7 is the best at what it was designed to do: intercept.  It has 2 limiters, and they are not conducive or prohibitive to what it was designed for or what it does in AH so well. The limitations are range and ordnance. But its raw power, speed, climb, turn, acceleration, and firepower are better than its ENY of 8.  The P51D, what cant it do? It could certainly use a lower ENY than 5. The Spitfire 16? Nothing needs to be said about that crutch plane, it can make anyone above average as soon as it goes wheels up.

etc etc etc.     

[SmokinLoon]

P-47N was never perked.

Never?  Just an ENY of 5?

[Wmaker]

Never?  Just an ENY of 5?

Yeh, it was never perked. No idea about the Eny it has currently but if it's 5 then it probably has always been that, not sure though.

[mtnman]

Keep in mind that if you truly weigh out and balance the ENY / Perk system for every plane in the set, you'll be putting newer players (and older but still less-skilled players) at an extremely unfair disadvantage.

Setting the system up "perfectly" would mean that only the players that had been here long enough (and had scored enough kills/damage) could afford to buy the "best" planes.  Even once the cost of a plane has been "earned" the expense to a newer/less-skilled player is much higher than it is for an old "ace".

The cost to both players my be 20 perks (or whatever) but it's a lot more difficult for a lesser-skilled player to come up with those 20 perks.  In addition, the lesser skilled pilot is MUCH more likely to burn/waste any perks they put towards a "better" plane than the guy with enough experience and skill to bring that ride back to base safely...  As an example, my favorite ride in the game is the F4U-4.  I have enough perks to buy them anytime I want to, and really need to screw up to lose one.  And if I do lose one it's no big deal, because I have GOBS of fighter perks.  Losing a perk plane is no big deal to me.  The more-likely result of me buying that F4U-4 though, is that I'll return it to base, and actually put ADDITIONAL perks into my bank....  Compare that to a new player who's just gotten enough perks to buy that F4U-4 (and gotten slaughtered relentlessly in the process).  He/She lifts that shiny new plane, heads into combat, and loses it to a guy in an A6M2 or SpitII.

In a difficult game where new players basically amount to being "sacrificial lambs" for a LONG time, only allowing them to fly the cheapest, lowest performing "free" planes while all of the skilled players are able to purchase anything they want wouldn't be "fair" in the slightest.  In addition, it would be just plain bad for business...

So in the end, there need to be several different "free" planes, in several different "flavors", that can compete with the best in the game; and in addition, these free planes must be ENY-rated high enough to allow those lesser-skilled pilots to earn some "easy" perks so that they can begin to fly some of the perked planes that they're striving for.

The P51, LA-7, Spit16, etc fit that mold perfectly.

[titanic3]

Is a 1.0 ENY even possible? 

[PFactorDave]

Keep in mind that if you truly weigh out and balance the ENY / Perk system for every plane in the set, you'll be putting newer players (and older but still less-skilled players) at an extremely unfair disadvantage.

Setting the system up "perfectly" would mean that only the players that had been here long enough (and had scored enough kills/damage) could afford to buy the "best" planes.  Even once the cost of a plane has been "earned" the expense to a newer/less-skilled player is much higher than it is for an old "ace".

The cost to both players my be 20 perks (or whatever) but it's a lot more difficult for a lesser-skilled player to come up with those 20 perks.  In addition, the lesser skilled pilot is MUCH more likely to burn/waste any perks they put towards a "better" plane than the guy with enough experience and skill to bring that ride back to base safely...  As an example, my favorite ride in the game is the F4U-4.  I have enough perks to buy them anytime I want to, and really need to screw up to lose one.  And if I do lose one it's no big deal, because I have GOBS of fighter perks.  Losing a perk plane is no big deal to me.  The more-likely result of me buying that F4U-4 though, is that I'll return it to base, and actually put ADDITIONAL perks into my bank....  Compare that to a new player who's just gotten enough perks to buy that F4U-4 (and gotten slaughtered relentlessly in the process).  He/She lifts that shiny new plane, heads into combat, and loses it to a guy in an A6M2 or SpitII.

In a difficult game where new players basically amount to being "sacrificial lambs" for a LONG time, only allowing them to fly the cheapest, lowest performing "free" planes while all of the skilled players are able to purchase anything they want wouldn't be "fair" in the slightest.  In addition, it would be just plain bad for business...

So in the end, there need to be several different "free" planes, in several different "flavors", that can compete with the best in the game; and in addition, these free planes must be ENY-rated high enough to allow those lesser-skilled pilots to earn some "easy" perks so that they can begin to fly some of the perked planes that they're striving for.

The P51, LA-7, Spit16, etc fit that mold perfectly.

You know, Mtnman has a really good point.

What if ENY was redesigned to factor in the "score" the player has.  For instance, a person with a low rank in Fighters would get a worse perk modifier when flying the low ENY fighter planes and the perked fighter planes would cost more.  Heck you could even build a graduated perk cost into planes like the Spit16 etc for the more skilled pilots.  In effect, pushing the more skilled players into the higher ENY aircraft, but leaving those P51Ds and Spixteens easily available for the guys who need them because they are newer and less skilled.

It could start fresh every tour.  So, at the beginning of the tour, all planes are equally available to everyone,  But as the tour progresses and the ranks start falling into place, the better sticks will be pushed into the more challenging planes.

Just a thought.  Sure it would need refining, but I think it might have potential.

[Lusche]

You know, Mtnman has a really good point.

What if ENY was redesigned to factor in the "score" the player has.  For instance, a person with a low rank in Fighters would get a worse perk modifier when flying the low ENY planes and the perked planes would cost more.  In effect, pushing the more skilled players into the higher ENY aircraft, but leaving those P51Ds and Spixteens easily available for the guys who need them because they are newer and less skilled.

I could bail a few times, sit in my plane in a remote location on the ground over night and fire a few thousand rounds at trees. Et voila! - My fighter rank will be around 3000 and can fly perk planes at a discount price whenever I need them

[JUGgler]

No!

 But a re-evaluation of ENY, maybe "community based" is reasonable.  IMHO





JUGgler

[PFactorDave]

I could bail a few times, sit in my plane in a remote location on the ground over night and fire a few thousand rounds at trees. Et voila! - My fighter rank will be around 3000 and can fly perk planes at a discount price whenever I need them

That's why the system would have to be refined for it to work.  There would have to be a system to try and prevent the sand bagging that you are talking about.  

What if the perk system only looked at K/D instead of rank.  To sand bag, you would have to allow yourself to be shot down on purpose numerous times.  Then when you started flying your free Spixteens, you would quickly climb the rank, thus putting yourself back into the perks per plane.  So sand bagging your Kills per hour and Hit % (the two easiest to intentionally blow) would do nothing but trash your rank, and not affect your perk modifier. 

I think it could work if some thought was put to it.

[4Prop]

I'd at least nerf their ENY. ponies to 3 and 262s to 3.

[Lusche]

That's why the system would have to be refined for it to work.  There would have to be a system to try and prevent the sand bagging that you are talking about.  

What if the perk system only looked at K/D instead of rank.  To sand bag, you would have to allow yourself to be shot down on purpose numerous times.  

I suggest you invent an objective system first

As for using only K/D, it still wouldn't work. While the connection between rank & skills is often quite... uhm... weak, it's even more so if just looking at a single stat like K/D. You can be a very bad pilot and have a very high K/D (by flying extremely timid at the expense off all other stats), or a very much above average pilot having a low K/D because you hurl yourself into every enemy horde.

Beyond that, to lower my K/D to circumvent your system I would simply have to bail a few dozen times at the begin of each tour. And again the perk rides will be cheap for me.  


But we could go the other way.... factor ENY into the score points calculation...