Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: PFactorDave on January 14, 2012, 09:17:45 PM
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Stranded here at the in-laws house... Bored out of my mind... Thinking about AH...
Was wondering if someone can tell me at what speed the Mossie (Fighter/Attack version) starts to redistribute its important bits. I would test it for myself, but I'm stranded at my in-laws... Like I mentioned at the beginning...
God I'm bored... But if I keep typing, they will continue to think that I am working and will resist their overwhelming urges to attempt to engage me in conversation....
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IIRC, I hit about 460 (?) In a Mossie XIV in the DA (:P) in a fairly steep dive... I only lost parts on the pull out.
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I keep the IAS below 480. Seems like the elevators fall off a tad after that.
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I don't know why the Mosquito Mk VI sheds parts at high speed and the Mosquito Mk XVI does not. So far as I have been able to tell they both have the same tail and the same strengthened universal wing that was introduced with the Mk VI. I have been trying to find the data in my books to back that up, but have not found it yet, which is why I haven't posted about it.
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Dont go too far beyond the "making noise" stage, certainly dont do anything drastic. Be very gentle on the controls and do everything you can do to keep it under 440 TAS. It will hold the E very well. ;)
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Dont go too far beyond the "making noise" stage, certainly dont do anything drastic. Be very gentle on the controls and do everything you can do to keep it under 440 TAS. It will hold the E very well. ;)
TAS has nothing to do with parts shedding. Jets routinely exceed their IAS redline in TAS.
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Stay below 480, or Bad Things happen.
When Im bored, my thought patterns to be:
- AH
- Mossie
- Speed
- Too Much Speed
- Bad Things
- Very Bad Things
- "Very Bad Things Movie"
- Kobe Tai
- Kobe Tai
- Kobe Tai
- ...
then I find several hours have passed.
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TAS has nothing to do with parts shedding. Jets routinely exceed their IAS redline in TAS.
What is TAS?
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What is TAS?
True Air Speed, the little red indicator on your speed-o-meter, as opposed to the white line which is Indicated Air Speed (IAS).
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TAS has nothing to do with parts shedding. Jets routinely exceed their IAS redline in TAS.
:bhead
Watch your TAS and tell me when the Mossi comes apart. I dont care what some jet has for a redline, you are taking this waaaay out in left field, jr. Stay on target, stay on target.
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:bhead
Watch your TAS and tell me when the Mossi comes apart. I dont care what some jet has for a redline, you are taking this waaaay out in left field, jr. Stay on target, stay on target.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicated_airspeed
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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicated_airspeed
Little jr pilot puts link to try and make what point??? Im telling you to watch your TAS in a Mossi, in a dive, and tell me when it comes apart. My post is all about when the Mossi makes noise, dont go much beyond that. The Mossi starts howling at 450-460 TAS. Again, bring this back in from waaaay out there in left field.
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They don't give you a never exceed speed in TAS-always IAS. Like I said, TAS has nothing to do with when your bits come off. I know what I'm talking about (in this instance anyways)
The point is TAS is an absolutely meaningless speed when you worry about parts coming off. It's not like I should know anything about this stuff.
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They don't give you a never exceed speed in TAS-always IAS. Like I said, TAS has nothing to do with when your bits come off. I know what I'm talking about (in this instance anyways)
The point is TAS is an absolutely meaningless speed when you worry about parts coming off. It's not like I should know anything about this stuff.
Again... you are applying blanket terminology to a situation in which someone asked specifically "when" parts start to fly off the Mossi FB Mk IV. I don't care what jet red lines where, which definition of TAS/IAS/FU2/OMG/ETC you want to type up or link, or what terminology you try and apply to show off what you think is an expertise, it doesn't matter.
When the Mossi starts to creak and pop, lay off the throttle and make subtle movements or else it will start losing parts, that happens at 450-460 TAS on the AH E6B. Go pick a e-ego battle somewhere else.
Now go wash some planes for some gas money. :aok
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Well, if you have an IAS number for shedding parts, it should be good for any altitude shouldn't it? While a TAS is going to vary by altitude. IAS will give you a measure of "pressure" on the aircraft, while TAS gives you a measurement of ground distance covered per unit of time, right?
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Well, if you have an IAS number for shedding parts, it should be good for any altitude shouldn't it? While a TAS is going to vary by altitude. IAS will give you a measure of "pressure" on the aircraft, while TAS gives you a measurement of ground distance covered per unit of time, right?
yes
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and as TAS goes up with altitude it makes sense to give a speed in IAS and not TAS. 460 TAS will be reached quite quickly at 30k but IAS will take more time (thinner air)
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I've taken the mossie6 above 500mph TAS a few times,you must use trim to pull out because any stick inputs will shed parts! At or about 470 it starts to complain and enters compressibility,you can control this though with some cross controls but it's best to use trim to get the nose up!
:salute
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:bhead
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:bhead
I feel your pain. :rofl
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Tupac is correct, never accede speed has nothing to do with TAS, it's IAS. The reason why your parts are falling off at high speed is because the air creates a lot of pressure on the airfoil. The higher up you go the thinner the air gets. TAS is the actual speed your moving though air, the thinner the air gets the faster you can move though it as there is less resistance. IAS is measured by the pitot tube, the thinner the air the lower your IAS (given the same TAS) will be because there is less air molecules putting pressure on the pitot tube, the same goes to the rest of the airplane.
Pitot tube directly measures ram air pressure, then it subtracts the static air pressure from the ram air pressure and gives you the dynamic pressure. Dynamic pressure is your Indicated Air Speed. TAS can not be measure, only derived. In order to find the TAS you need to convert IAS into CAS (calibrated airspeed), CAS is IAS removed of all errors, the aircraft manufacturer usually gives you the IAS to CAS conversion chart. Then you can derive your TAS by knowing your pressure altitude, OAT (outside air temperature), and CAS.
Makes seance now?
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Today in MA i got to over 480 before i started having creaking but i was careful and nothing broke.
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ask your inlaws wouldn't they prefer you thinkin about them while playin AH, rather than thinkin about AH while being with them? Next time you go back thei'yre should be desktop waitin for ya. an 460IAS is about where i start slowin er down.
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ask your inlaws wouldn't they prefer you thinkin about them while playin AH, rather than thinkin about AH while being with them? Next time you go back thei'yre should be desktop waitin for ya. an 460IAS is about where i start slowin er down.
A desktop with lots and lots of Kobe Tai.
:old:
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Don't know about the Fighter/Attack Mossie because I don't really fly it. But the Mossie XVI I was flying the other day started shaking when I was diving away from a unkown 190 type plane I checked the bomb sight, because I am not familiar with the cockpit gauges, and it read 516mph. I know I was compressing and not so wisely tried to use some rudder to slow down after chopping throttle. Lucky for me you can still fly without a rudder.
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:bhead
My whole comp sci class is staring at me because I just busted out laughing.
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The Vne speed changes with altitude. Since most of the atmosphere is below 18,000 feet, Vne is pretty close to accurate below that. However, when you get above those altitudes, it changes pretty dramatically.
They also call it Vmo (Velocity Maximum Operating) for jet-airliners. For instance, Mach .80 is Vmo for 737's at 35k feet, which is roughly 270 knots IAS. At sea level, the Vne is 360 knots IAS, if I recall correctly.
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The Vne speed changes with altitude. Since most of the atmosphere is below 18,000 feet, Vne is pretty close to accurate below that. However, when you get above those altitudes, it changes pretty dramatically.
They also call it Vmo (Velocity Maximum Operating) for jet-airliners. For instance, Mach .80 is Vmo for 737's at 35k feet, which is roughly 270 knots IAS. At sea level, the Vne is 360 knots IAS, if I recall correctly.
That should not effect the Mosquito (especially in AH), it does not go as high and as fast for it to make a significant difference. Also I don't not believe it is programmed in AH, the numbers for Mosquito's Vmo should not exist. In other words the actual number is there however no one in the 40s knew what Vmo is and it does not operate at those altitudes and speeds, so I seriously doubt that de Havilland published that speed. If they didn't publish it and it was not tested for it there would be no place for HTC to get the numbers so it should not be programmed in AH.
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That should not effect the Mosquito (especially in AH), it does not go as high and as fast for it to make a significant difference. Also I don't not believe it is programmed in AH, the numbers for Mosquito's Vmo should not exist. In other words the actual number is there however no one in the 40s knew what Vmo is and it does not operate at those altitudes and speeds, so I seriously doubt that de Havilland published that speed. If they didn't publish it and it was not tested for it there would be no place for HTC to get the numbers so it should not be programmed in AH.
I agree, it probably shouldn't matter in this context, was just inserting a tid-bit from what little knowledge I have. :)
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I agree, it probably shouldn't matter in this context, was just inserting a tid-bit from what little knowledge I have. :)
Roger :)
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I do need to make a correction though, still irrelevant, but might as well get it right. I mixed up a few things up with a 767 it seems:
Vmo (Velocity max operating) for a 737 is 340 knots IAS.
Mmo (Mach max operating) for a 737 is .82, which is 279 knots IAS @ 35,000 feet.
Vmo is the same as Vne.
Perhaps someone can chime in here on this bit, but I'm wondering if perhaps the Mmo exists because of something called "mach tuck." So maybe I'm confusing "Vne" changing with altitude, with "Vne" adjusting to Mach limitations of the wing...
Bah, this aerodynamics stuff has a couple variables... :confused:
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I subscribe to the theory that airplanes fly because of gypsy magic.
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I do need to make a correction though, still irrelevant, but might as well get it right. I mixed up a few things up with a 767 it seems:
Vmo (Velocity max operating) for a 737 is 340 knots IAS.
Mmo (Mach max operating) for a 737 is .82, which is 279 knots IAS @ 35,000 feet.
Vmo is the same as Vne.
Perhaps someone can chime in here on this bit, but I'm wondering if perhaps the Mmo exists because of something called "mach tuck." So maybe I'm confusing "Vne" changing with altitude, with "Vne" adjusting to Mach limitations of the wing...
Bah, this aerodynamics stuff has a couple variables... :confused:
If your interested in that stuff I have some official documents from Boeing on that topic for 757 & 767, I can email them to you.
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That'd be awesome! I'll PM you my address, thanks!
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That'd be awesome! I'll PM you my address, thanks!
No problem.
Since it's kinda a lot I recommend you use "ctrl f" to find the "Vmo" section.
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I subscribe to the theory that airplanes fly because of gypsy magic.
:rofl
Voodoo 100%.
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I subscribe to the theory that airplanes fly because of gypsy magic.
:rofl