Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: cohofly on January 21, 2012, 06:05:43 PM
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Im somewhat dissapointed with how things went in Frame 3 FSO. I am only speaking from my point of view here, and only representing myself and not the 325th for whom I fly. We were given the task of defending A73. Given the right numbers this should have been an attainable situation. Unfortunately we didnt have the right numbers. The 325th had ten in uniform, the 801st had 7 in uniform. Now we werent flying as a force of 17, we were fighting in small 3-4 ship wings that were spread quite thin over a large alt. difference. A73 was a known target, and was hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships. This isnt the first time that the Axis leaders have used this tactic, and guess what it works............ So my question is how are we supposed to defend a known target that is going to get hit by either Jabos or Bombers with escorts? This seems like losing battle to me. It seems we were only given a very small chance at succcesfully completing our task, let alone surviving. It would seem to me that we know what is going to happen but for whatever reason for several frames the "right "decisions" werent made. C'mon guys we know where they are going to hit, please give us tools to allow us to accompolish the task.
Frustratedly yours
Carver
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Ya i guess what he means is its dam stupid to attack 20 190s with 1 to 4 ac when it should be in mass and whoever the allied general is he should have his buthole kicked for sending us in that way time and time again.
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Have either of you ever been a CiC?
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Are you really suggesting that the axis CIC used over 100 planes to hit A73? :rofl :rofl
The actual numbers were much lower that your estimates. You would know this if you checked your film or the logs.
Did the other defenders of 73 feel just as overwelmed in the battle as you did. It warms my heart just knowing that even with the alt advantage in your Jugs, Ponies, and Spit8s that you crapped your pants over a few 109 As. :devil
There is no need to blame the side CICs or the CMs that run FSO when you wasted every advantage and got spanked by the best in the Luftwaffe. :ahand
PS send my regards to family of Rayace1. :devil
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Ponykill.png)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Ponykill2.png)
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Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.
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Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.
2 waves of 20? the most we had over the target at one time was like 20 fighters. Much less 40. A Squad of around 8 planes took out A73's entire high cap.
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Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73????
hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships
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I was CiC Axis for frame 2 and I see where some of your frustration comes from. It was a lot easier to plan the offense due to the fact that we were not using any bombers, just jabos. I never really assigned escorts as each plane was capable of getting into targets on their own. The defending planes were the ones that carried no ord, save for 1 squad that was capable but prob didnt load them. They were a small squad of about 4. I tried to balance out each objective with the same amount of planes and projected (on frame 1 #'s) 10 more on the offensive than on defense, which was a bit over 2 per objective, and an avg. of 22 planes per objective.
On a side note, frame 3 was one my personal best. FATE was tasked with defending A41 with the 334th. After the first (and only?) strike we went up to help out with A37 and on the way discovered A38 was being attacked and was undefended at that point. We made a bee line into it I'm and pretty sure we surprised the attackers when we came down on them. :devil We finished the night right there. I had blast! <<S>> Allies :salute
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First of all, there were 2 groups of 190s FIGHTING, 9GIAP and Kommando Nowotny. We were made up of 17 planes. JG 11 in 190A-8s did not show up until EVERY allied plane in area was dead. And yes, in the beginning the Spits, Jugs, and 51s were above us. Nothing slick was done here except pure carnage.
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but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked
You faced Kommando Nowotny (11 - 190A-5's), 9Giap (6 - 190A-5's), and III/JG11 (12 Heavy 190A-8's). And they had a simple plan that they stuck to.
You did fine.
EDIT: as my esteemed colleague posted as I was as well...Doo is correct. III/JG11 never fired a shot at enemy aircraft. The field was 100% intact when we arrived. We left it...somewhat altered.
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:ahand
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Where in my original post does it say that I suggested that the Axis CIC used over 100 planes to attack A73???? Cmon Devil read it again. :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl back at you. And from your Screenie it appears that was a 190 shooting down Rayace. So a few 109's no not crapping pants. 2 waves of 20 190's plus 109 against 4 P-47's 6 Pony B's and 8Spit 8's, yah I knew we were gonna take a whoooping.
Branch, No I have never been a CiC and I am certain that Surffin hasnt either, but I know when Im going to get my buttttt kicked.
Yep, oops on my part. I meant 190 As. There were NO 109s used in the strike of 73.
But seriously you implied that you encountered 90+ enemies when all there were was 26. At the time of initial contact our fighters met each side had exactly 17 planes. With your alt advantage and better aircraft at that alt, I would have expected more from you guys than a bunch of wrecked planes, bruised egos, and a sob story on the BBs.
Better luck in 2 weeksI guess. :cheers:
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I was CiC Axis for frame 2 and I see where some of your frustration comes from. It was a lot easier to plan the offense due to the fact that we were not using any bombers, just jabos. I never really assigned escorts as each plane was capable of getting into targets on their own. The defending planes were the ones that carried no ord, save for 1 squad that was capable but prob didnt load them. They were a small squad of about 4. I tried to balance out each objective with the same amount of planes and projected (on frame 1 #'s) 10 more on the offensive than on defense, which was a bit over 2 per objective, and an avg. of 22 planes per objective.
^^^^^^^^^^ See that up there!! Like it or not, having to put pilots in a 5-6 different planes, is a H@!! of a lot easier than having to fill a list of 8-10 different planes, especially when 3 of them are defenseless low level bombers.
There were so many interesting things the allies could have done in this FSO....... But didn't.
None the less, it was fun :salute
JDog
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Hey dont get me wrong here guys. This was never intended to be a Whine thread. My hat is off to the CiC and all who planned and participated in Januarys FSO. You guys had great planning and execution. A BIG <S>. To the attackers of A73 <S> also you came in in a concentrated force, and we were scattered with 3 here and 3 there, so on ad nauseum. My and a few of my MA squaddies involved with FSO, frustration lies with not being given the resources to adequately defend, again. Strategy plain and simple.
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DEVIL 505 Apperantly you have some difficulty reading. In my original post I stated 50+. I have been told and rightly so that even that number was wrong. Yes the number attacking A73 was 29. So Im having some difficulty understanding where you are getting your numbers from.
For the record in case you missed it
50 + is not over 100, that would be 100+
50 + is not 90 that would be 80+
its 50 + a few
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This is what you said:
A73 was a known target, and was hit by at lest 50+ 190 jabos and 109 escorts flying in large groups of perhaps 20 ships.
50+ 190
20 109
+ 20 109
_________
= 90+ Fighters
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Sorry that you put the wrong emph asis on the wrong syl ables.
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You faced Kommando Nowotny (11 - 190A-5's), 9Giap (6 - 190A-5's), and III/JG11 (12 Heavy 190A-8's). And they had a simple plan that they stuck to.
You did fine.
EDIT: as my esteemed colleague posted as I was as well...Doo is correct. III/JG11 never fired a shot at enemy aircraft. The field was 100% intact when we arrived. We left it...somewhat altered.
Disappointed fellow, Stampf is correct about the force distribution over 73. I should know, I wrote the orders. Part of your problem was the 3 groups I assigned to assault A73. Three outstanding squads, two of which are dedicated Luftwaffe squads. The planning that was behind my thought was that KN and Dantoo's guys would simply dominate wherever they went. It's what they do...
Great job and thanks to ALL the Axis squads. I thought were incredible all night, all over the map.
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:airplane:Axis did a great job . . again . . <S> All involved did a great job last night (those of us with what we had), every frame for that matter so no matter what it was fun. After calming down from a good ole fashoned bellybutton whoopen . . again . . we're kinda pissed but laughing about it, so there are some issues on 'our' side we need to work on. Big deal, we'll work it out, then we'll work it out with you guys. Personally I was worthless in frame 3 thanks to a virus in my game computer so I was merely a target for you guys flying with a 3 frame rate on my grandsons lap top and I got in uniform as we launched with no sound, I chipped my teeth gritten them. My squadies and I are respectful flyers so cut em some slack with those little digs and over exadurations on a guestimate that was within a dozen, that's not that far off when it sure looked like a hundred of you vulchers over us. It's all good brutha's, peace...
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spikes I <S> your avitar :O
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Sorry that you put the wrong emph asis on the wrong syl ables.
What Devil said were not syllables, they are words.
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Disappointed fellow, Stampf is correct about the force distribution over 73. I should know, I wrote the orders. Part of your problem was the 3 groups I assigned to assault A73. Three outstanding squads, two of which are dedicated Luftwaffe squads. The planning that was behind my thought was that KN and Dantoo's guys would simply dominate wherever they went. It's what they do...
Great job and thanks to ALL the Axis squads. I thought were incredible all night, all over the map.
>
I appreciate the compliment. Whoever we were running into had their work cut out. :salute
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Spikes, what I said in the OP were words too, not my fault that some cant comprehend what they read. Then make matters worse by continuing with same line of thinking, when it had been stated by several including me, that I was wrong with my numbers in the OP.
Nuff Said
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The field was 100% intact when we arrived. We left it...somewhat altered.
As in altered and from the Almighty Black Sabbath song "War Pigs" In the Fields the Bodies Burning (bodies not burning by JG-11 this time around but by our fine Escorts)We altered the field's as JG-11 was tired of the of the pretty looking landscape(and according to order's we preceded and had to alter A73 with flames a blazing and field guns down even tho JG11 was not involved with the massive carnage of fighters down this time around We Came, We Saw, we Kicked some buildings Butt's and Kudos goes out to the fighters who cleared the Way for us to make our mission possible. I am sorry the Defenders were short handed but you also have to go back and think of all the time's Axis have been short handed on base defense but we did the best we could with the numbers in the past and Allies have to do the best they can with their numbers. CiC's have the worse jobs with planning and all what makes FSO so great is the close battles and fights we all encounter no matter who wins or lose's (even tho winning is great)
The Above comments are not reflect towards my squad's aspect of the frame just the Quote about "altered" but just my opinions.
Salute All
Crazy8s
disclaimer this is not meant to defer from my squad aspect's or the view of a CM just the every day view of an avid player of FSO
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Ya i guess what he means is its dam stupid to attack 20 190s with 1 to 4 ac when it should be in mass and whoever the allied general is he should have his buthole kicked for sending us in that way time and time again.
All 3 CiCs did a good job in my opinion under difficult circumstances. We had 11 different a/c with minimums and maximums and other rules restrictions so ya we were spread thin in all 3 frames. The BUFFS needed at least some Fighter protection at the expense of Base Defense sqns. I could go on and on about this but you lose some and you win some. :salute
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17 Allied fighters encountered 17 Axis fighters over A73 before the Jabos even arrived.
The Axis pilots fought with much better coordination and teamwork. Nothing fancy nothing
underhanded and nothing the Allied CIC could do about it. The fight started on even terms
and we got thumped. Thats about all there is to it..
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What it simply comes down to is simple objective planning and squad communication at the squad / base objective level. The scenario described in defense at A73 patrolling in 4 ships is destined to get overwhelmed by a concentrated attack / fighter sweep. Even if you had altitude, you are facing (for argument's sake) 12 to 17 planes sweeping in. By the time you realize what is happening, the other 4 ships are trying to collapse to the airfield only to see many dots over target. If you don't realize this is a fighter sweep and start looking for Jabos, you face losing altitude with Jabos coming in right on top of you.
With up to 17 defenders, you would want to concentrate your defense enmasse. The only way to accomplish this is to coordinate this between the other defending squads in the days prior to FSO and even possibly train together in the DA or in a custom arena. Properly setting up patrol CAP can be done with multiple squads as long as it is coordinated in advance. Every week, I always reach out to squads we may potentially work with for this very reason. Mission success.
It is obvious to me that Axis coordinated their attack and worked together well to accomplish their objective. FSO can be frustrating if you spend close to an hour flying around only to get your plane shot out from under you in the first developing minutes of the fight. It happens to all of us who participate in FSO.
I don't take offense to this thread at all. I think it is a good learning tool for future missions in FSO. If you receive an email from me after we receive orders, please respond. You now know that I am working to coordinate success in FSO! :devil
:salute
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<S> SlipKnt . . well put :salute
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17 Allied fighters encountered 17 Axis fighters over A73 before the Jabos even arrived.
The Axis pilots fought with much better coordination and teamwork. Nothing fancy nothing
underhanded and nothing the Allied CIC could do about it. The fight started on even terms
and we got thumped. Thats about all there is to it..
Perfect, great post Shifty. Whole thread can end here.
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One of the great things about FSO is that each is a learning experience. We learn something every time out. Currently we are still trying to mold together as a unit and are working for that. When I joined VF-17 less then a year ago, we were a 5-7 squad, this next FSO were a 16-21, that's a lot of growing pains even for a fairly veteran squad that we have. FSO certainly tends to show a squads weaknesses with alarming regularity. The key is learning and adapting :aok
:salute
BigRat
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Great lessons learned.
1) SITREP, or situation report is everything.
2) Defending is almost impossible.
3) Mass is everything.
What I would do different is first consider likely avenues of attack. Second reconnoiter/scout as far out front as possible, find them two sectors away if possible. Third, once you've found them delay attack while you mass all as many of your birds as possible. Fourth, hit them from the side a full sector plus away. Hitting from the side allows speed differential and enables you relatively rapid re-engegment. During the attack blow through the 109s and disrupt the 190s. Use your speed by slashing attacks. Get them to drop altitude and speed. Turn their 109s into 'out of position' tourists, trying to catch you as you chase down heavy 190s.
Anything else means you will meet their mass with splinter attacks most likely over the field.
In any case, this is what we learned to incredibly effect during the Battle Over Germany when we thrashed the crap out of the attackers. Just my two cents.
Offense is always the best defense.
Boo
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Great suggestion :salute
While it may have been an equal amount of fighters in the sector every encounter I saw was 4 to 5 allied ac getting stomped by all the 190s at once. I and one other Pilot were the only survivors of the first encounter. I shot up 6 190s but not a one went down good job to the three 190 squads there, your coordination was incredible to watch. :salute
I have a couple of constructive suggestions to make for future FSO.
Defending fighter squads could fly together in mass
Squad leaders of the fighter squads could have a separate channel to communicate with, this seamed to work really well in the B.O.G.
A predetermined rally point for all survivors.
Still a great time though any way you look at it :salute to all
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Surfinn nice attempt budy was just lucky enough to out roll ya :salute
(http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/bikermedic8/fso120/crazysurfinn.jpg)
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Great screen shoot. :salute
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Interesting read throughout with many good post's by quiet a few. My personnel opinion is that the 325th VFG ran into 3 really good squads attacking in a coordinated attack and it worked for them nicely. Simply put and I'm in the 325th VFG.
All fun aside in the FSO and they are all fun in there own ways. This FSO set up isn't exactly right and I would hope that the CM's would adjust the next time it is used (probably a year from now). I haven't seen the points yet but I have looked at the logs for all 3 frames and the ALLIES got hammered 3 out of 3 frames. Not close but hammered, look at the kill ratio's and objects destroyed. Not looking for a historical match up because that's NOT what the FSO is about. But when working correctly it should be even enough to come out nearly a draw each time. So either the match up isn't right (numbers or AC used) or all of the really good squads ended up on one side.
When one frame goes wildly to one side you can usually chalk it up to: One side having a bad turn out or a really good plan upending the others. When you have 3 out 3 frames go to one side then you have to look at the setup in my opinion.
The FSO is a great time and i really appreciate what all of the CM's do <S> Just asking that the CM's review this scenario and make adjustments before its next use.
<S> to the AXIS side. A very good scenario for you all.
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What was interesting about the attack in question...is how closely it mirrored the Allied attack against A41 last week. We had about 15-17 defenders...all 109s. The first attack came in at 6K by 10 P47s.....we arrived at the base just as they were on egressing from their attack..we dispatched most of them...10 minutes later 3 P38's dove in from about 11-13K we had recovered to about 11k ourselves and dispatched two of those 38's. Seeing a HUGE dar bar 75+ miles away...we rearmed/refueld then started climbing.....~20 mins later we encounterd 10 P-51's diving in on 41 from 25K....we destroyed a good number of them...the ones we could catch. Not a one of the attackers hung around to fight...they just dove in...dropped ord and egressed. Given the speed advantage of the allied aircraft....a very sound plan...I'm sure they were planning on re-arm/re-fuel and come back for a second pass since the first attack was about T+21 in frame. They never did.
So with 15-17 defenders we were attacked by 23 allied aircraft from 3 different altitudes and 3 different directions. A41 recieved nominal damage and we racked up a good number of kills. The only difference from what YOU experienced.....Timing. Had all three units attacked at the same time...we would have been overwhelmed and probably suffered significant losses. But the timing was such we could rearm and refuel and recover alt between attacks. In military attacks and comedy....Timing....is critical. :salute
AKSofty.
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What was interesting about the attack in question...is how closely it mirrored the Allied attack against A41 last week. We had about 15-17 defenders...all 109s. The first attack came in at 6K by 10 P47s.....we arrived at the base just as they were on egressing from their attack..we dispatched most of them...10 minutes later 3 P38's dove in from about 11-13K we had recovered to about 11k ourselves and dispatched two of those 38's. Seeing a HUGE dar bar 75+ miles away...we rearmed/refueld then started climbing.....~20 mins later we encounterd 10 P-51's diving in on 41 from 25K....we destroyed a good number of them...the ones we could catch. Not a one of the attackers hung around to fight...they just dove in...dropped ord and egressed. Given the speed advantage of the allied aircraft....a very sound plan...I'm sure they were planning on re-arm/re-fuel and come back for a second pass since the first attack was about T+21 in frame. They never did.
So with 15-17 defenders we were attacked by 23 allied aircraft from 3 different altitudes and 3 different directions. A41 recieved nominal damage and we racked up a good number of kills. The only difference from what YOU experienced.....Timing. Had all three units attacked at the same time...we would have been overwhelmed and probably suffered significant losses. But the timing was such we could rearm and refuel and recover alt between attacks. In military attacks and comedy....Timing....is critical. :salute
AKSofty.
No offense but your experiance doesn't mirror what happened at A73 at all. Except maybe in numbers of aircraft. The Lufties came in with an aggresive sweep ahead of the strike force. They concentrated on one thing engaging and destroying the CAP. They did a great job of it. By the time the jabos arrive there was very little resistance if any left. What you described happened to us in frames 1 and 2 small pockets of attackers coming in at seperate times and paying the price for it. What happened at A73 Friday was nothing close to that. They pretty much put on a clinic and those of us on the losing end of it would do well to remember the lesson.
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None taken.
Upon re-reading your post...I would say the fault lies with the deployment of your aircraft. Breaking 17 AC up in to 4-5 wings to defend a known attack is a bit "different" If you "did" want to break up that force...8 + 8 on reciprocating racetracks at alt would have probably worked better....use the extra 1 AC as an advanced scout at mid-alt in the most "Probable" sector where the enemy ingress is expected. I wouldn't fault a CIC for a CO's decision to split up his forces.
This week 10 of us ran into what we believe was a Fighter sweep for A38....only 3 AC returned from that encounter...1 heavily damaged and 2 in good working order after slugging it out about 2:1 against 51's and 38's that had alt. The good news was that we scored some kills and the Jabo group we were escorting got away clean and hit the CV group ...decimating it. ;-)
In the end we follow our CO's good or bad we pay the virtual price and hope it works out. :pray It is probably the most accurate thing in the FSO as to "real" WWII experience. :)
:salute To you...and see you in February!
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One thing I noticed over 73 was that the Allies got very spread out fast.
After the 1st 5 minutes I only saw 2 groups with at least 3 planes. Everything else was spread to hell and back.
Our 190s managed to stay together(except for me and Ace :D)and eliminate those small pockets.
If the Allied fighters had kept their alt and stayed together, that fight might of turned out differently.
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Well coordinated squads, flying their favorite rides, using proper planning and wingman tactics is hard to counter.
It only appeared that there were 100 planes :D
Prior
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance
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Well coordinated squads, flying their favorite rides, using proper planning and wingman tactics is hard to counter.
It only appeared that there were 100 planes :D
Prior
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance
:lol
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Interesting read throughout with many good post's by quiet a few. My personnel opinion is that the 325th VFG ran into 3 really good squads attacking in a coordinated attack and it worked for them nicely. Simply put and I'm in the 325th VFG.
Spot on, as has been Shifty's account. Viper you are one of, if not the best strike planner I have ever had the pleasure to operate with. You understand that the essence of Friday Squad Ops...is...Squad ops. And believe me, our plan was simple, Nothing like the time and work you put into a strike. In fact it took no longer than 2 minutes to discuss with the units involved. The important part is that we did discuss the mission, had a simple plan, communicated sitrep throughout the flight, and worked together to accomplish it. Experience is a tough teacher. I knew I could unleash KN, and 9GIAP on a free sweep and chances were they would get the job done. We've all spent allot of Friday nights flying with and against eachother. All I had to do was keep the strikers free and clean, and be Johny on the spot, when it counted.
Of course it wasn't simple. At one point it looked like a tough CAP was waiting high to meet the sweep, and the strike group had to evade numerous patrols, and allied pirates on the way to target. They were all around us on the way in.
In the event, our timing was perfect, and of course luck plays into that as well, on every sortie.
The guys who mentioned this thread as a positive learning experience are correct, and more AAR type discussions would be a good thing for everyone flying in here. I am sure the OP now has a bit of a different view of the actual events that took place over A73, and hopefully has seen a larger picture. It's not the CIC's job to get his units to work together. That's falls upon all of us, as pilots in his kommand. The CIC gives us what he/she can to operate with, and a mission to accomplish. Even with detailed instructions and flight plans from a CIC, without teamwork, discipline, and communication, success will be hard to find. Every outcome up there, good and bad, is a result of a decision we make ourselves.
It only appeared that there were 100 planes
Dantoo always looks like 100 planes to me. :)
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I've often found in the past that defense is so hard because defenders are hamstrung, so to speak. Not only are massive numbers thrown at small numbers of defenders, but often in large hordes. Even if the defenders are in the right place at the right time, the bombs get through to the target simply be sheer volume. If you punish them by shooting them down after they all drop, you cannot make up for the points you lost by losing your hangars/whatever.
Now, I'll admit I've been on the attacking end where we had some 6 planes going against 30 defenders... That sucks just as much.
As a thought: It would probably help if enemy dar bar was enabled for both sides. And not some 5-minute "they're already 2 sectors away" delay, but a reasonable 30 seconds delay or less. Above 28K is instant dot dar for all sides. This would help provide some info such as where the massive forces might be, so smaller defenders can reach out and intercept them BEFORE they're in drop range, and would also give attackers some idea of where the defenders were.
It would seriously lessen the "gang bang" experience, I think. Knowing is half the battle. It's one thing to move in to target area, be ripped to pieces by 50+ defenders with no warning and be in the tower, vs KNOWING you're going into a terrible situation with 3 surrounding sectors of enemy dar bar and you won't make it out. It lessens the anger a bit, after you're dead.
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Maybe just to support my point, and maybe because it made me LOL:
The radar would help you know more of what's going on, and... well..
(http://www.atfmb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/knowing-is-half-the-battle.jpg)
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Maybe just to support my point, and maybe because it made me LOL:
The radar would help you know more of what's going on, and... well..
(http://www.atfmb.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/knowing-is-half-the-battle.jpg)
I want my sharks with lazer beams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Prior
Proper
Planning
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance
That reminds me of the 3 P's of parenthood...
Piss
Puke
and Poo
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It's all been said really so just a big <S> to all that were there.
To the OP, there are going to be times when you just can't get it done because the numbers are bad, the opposition is good, or often enough, just dumb luck. Next FSO it all changes and it feels good again.
The three squads you came up against are somewhat "seasoned". They pretty well know what the others can do and perhaps more importantly, know what the others want from them.
When we arrived at the target we didn't come in one group. We coordinated quickly and caught you in a pincer move initially, that meant that we had angles on you and you had too many directions to look. I guess you could say at that point we might have looked like 50 aircraft all around you, all trying to kill you. That's why we did it.
We quickly identified the aircraft types we were fighting and their disposition. Perdweeb and I split our tasks and my group took on the spits up high while his group took on pretty much the rest. The defenders got spread out from the initial aggression and we pushed and/or lured the high guys down into the charnel house that KN had set up in the mid and low levels. The A8s came in at precisely the right time and though they may have seen a red dot they wouldn't have been threatened by them.
At about the time the Strikers finished their job it was time to go home because of fuel states. There did seem to be another group coming in from the North to push us out but we left some time before they could have arrived.
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<S> JG11
<S> to you Stampf, you have and command and excellent squad. Thank you for your compliments.