Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: F22RaptorDude on January 29, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
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So at student driving school we were hydroplaning in the parking lot before we went to go grab pizza to show how the car reacts and how to regain control. Well we took a turn to sharp and rammed into the curb doing 30 and the bags deployed, no one in the car was hurt and the only damage was the dash where the bags came out.
Anyway that got me to thinking about how my F-150 would stand up to a crash, on the roads here my average speed taken from posted signs is around 50, This is a crash test video at 40 mph, its kinda scary knowing that would it could look like and I know the driver would either be dead or seriously injured
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8)
"Overall evaluation - Poor"
:huh
Over here in England we'd call that an understatement.
That is a damn deathtrap!
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The newer F150s do very, very much better.
There are reasons I bought a Toyota Tundra in 2001, this among them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLT4eQr3j7o
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I took drivers ed in Montana when there was no speed limit on Highways (safe and prudent). We were driving down one of the main highways and this guy in a crap truck was only going 50mph, so the instructor told me to pass him, which I started to do (For those who've never been, a Montana Highway can be and is often a 2 lane road). Well, the guy in front of us didn't use his turn signal and made a left turn. I had to slam the breaks and veer back into the right lane to avoid T-Boning the guy. It was scary as hell... then the instructor made me pass someone else 3 minutes later, the bastage!
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"Overall evaluation - Poor"
:huh
Over here in England we'd call that an understatement.
That is a damn deathtrap!
There is literally no crumple zone what so ever in the engine compartment, I mean you could crawl through the compartment from the bottom there is so much room. Seeing this saying i'm scared is a large understatement, i'm terrified!
The newer F150s do very, very much better.
There are reasons I bought a Toyota Tundra in 2001, this among them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLT4eQr3j7o
I like that, i'm a big ford fan, but dying in one isn't in my planning book, I like how it never gets past the rear of the engine block
I took drivers ed in Montana when there was no speed limit on Highways (safe and prudent). We were driving down one of the main highways and this guy in a crap truck was only going 50mph, so the instructor told me to pass him, which I started to do (For those who've never been, a Montana Highway can be and is often a 2 lane road). Well, the guy in front of us didn't use his turn signal and made a left turn. I had to slam the breaks and veer back into the right lane to avoid T-Boning the guy. It was scary as hell... then the instructor made me pass someone else 3 minutes later, the bastage!
I've heard the horror stories from other people who drove while I was in class, he would ask people in class who drove with who the day before and ask em what they did, passing, slamming on brakes, sliding in gravel doing 40, the instructor is a freaking nut case!
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Subsequent F150 model in 2004 test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jongDRViwno
2007 Tundra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKFifCeQ-0&feature=related
As you can see, the F150 was massively improved in the next model. The Tundra still does well.
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A smart car does better than my truck I mean c'mon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP6YYCcvwPs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP6YYCcvwPs)
Subsequent F150 model in 2004 test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jongDRViwno
2007 Tundra:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKFifCeQ-0&feature=related
As you can see, the F150 was massively improved in the next model. The Tundra still does well.
A lot of improvement i'd say, that Tundra just shrugs it off
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A smart car does better than my truck I mean c'mon! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP6YYCcvwPs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP6YYCcvwPs)
Keep in mind it has a lot less mass to decelerate. Also keep in mind that if your truck had an offset collision with a SMART car while both going 20mph (aka, 40mph offset as in those tests), the mismatch is masses would send the car flying while the damage to your truck would be far less than in the video. Because of the different masses those tests don't really tell the whole story about a collision between two vehicles.
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One of the considerations when we bought our '08 Wrangler was its ability to handle collisions. Adding extremely rugged off road bumpers and additional armor (that stiffens the body/frame) results in even better crash performance. Just remember that the roof adds almost not strength to the vehicle and the doors do little more than keep out the weather. This is one very stout vehicle. I know a guy who caused a 5 car chain reaction crash when he plowed his Wrangler into a line of stopped traffic. Two cars were totaled. The 2006 Jetta he hit directly and a 2001 Civic in front of the Honda. A 2007 F-150 was considerably damaged (I think he said that the claim was for $4700). He drove his Jeep to the dealer where they found no damage to the Jeep, but recommended that he replace the beat-up bumper cover. His total repair cost? $112 plus 1 hour labor. Didn't even require an alignment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
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if you buy a leveling kit for your truck it may save you if you get in a crash. Just watch the difference between stock head colision and a leveled out truck head on colision and the lift made a huge differnce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCelD0qr8Do&feature=related
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The main road in and out of my area is a 2 lane road posted at 45 mph. It seems the unwritten rule around here that 5- 10 mph over is the norm. That being said, you're looking at an impact speed of 90- probably 110 mph. At that impact a truck is gonna destroy any smaller vehicle. Odds of survivability in either vehicle, IMO, is slim to none. The good news is I've lived in this same spot for 6-1/2 yrs now and haven't seen any HOs on that road. :pray
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Keep in mind it has a lot less mass to decelerate. Also keep in mind that if your truck had an offset collision with a SMART car while both going 20mph (aka, 40mph offset as in those tests), the mismatch is masses would send the car flying while the damage to your truck would be far less than in the video. Because of the different masses those tests don't really tell the whole story about a collision between two vehicles.
I don't believe 2 cars going 20 equal a 40mph impact. That might be the rate of closure but it's still just a 20mph impact.
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I don't believe 2 cars going 20 equal a 40mph impact. That might be the rate of closure but it's still just a 20mph impact.
Negative. It is a 40mph collision if they hit head on.
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I don't believe 2 cars going 20 equal a 40mph impact. That might be the rate of closure but it's still just a 20mph impact.
A HO at 20mph would be the same as hitting a parked car at 40mph.
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So at student driving school we were hydroplaning in the parking lot before we went to go grab pizza to show how the car reacts and how to regain control. Well we took a turn to sharp and rammed into the curb doing 30 and the bags deployed, no one in the car was hurt and the only damage was the dash where the bags came out.
Anyway that got me to thinking about how my F-150 would stand up to a crash, on the roads here my average speed taken from posted signs is around 50, This is a crash test video at 40 mph, its kinda scary knowing that would it could look like and I know the driver would either be dead or seriously injured
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8)
Working with the State Patrol, one of our main jobs is accident investigation. I've seen a lot of accident scenes. Vehicles are made to fold up and take the impact so your body doesn't. Most people that are injured are those that don't wear their seat belt or someone is sitting behind them that doesn't have their seat belt on.
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Working with the State Patrol, one of our main jobs is accident investigation. I've seen a lot of accident scenes. Vehicles are made to fold up and take the impact so your body doesn't. Most people that are injured are those that don't wear their seat belt or someone is sitting behind them that doesn't have their seat belt on.
The 2001 Ford F150 didn't have a good design for that though. If you look at the videos you can see how it does a poor job maintaining the integrity of the passenger compartment in comparison to the other vehicles linked.
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Working with the State Patrol, one of our main jobs is accident investigation. I've seen a lot of accident scenes. Vehicles are made to fold up and take the impact so your body doesn't. Most people that are injured are those that don't wear their seat belt or someone is sitting behind them that doesn't have their seat belt on.
Your a state trooper for Georgia? A state trooper came and talked to us during the driving course on a saturday, It actually happened 10 mins after he left the college campus.
I was the only one who recieved injury, the air bag punched my left arm into the window and my right hand rubbed against the air bag as it came out.
Also one of the kids said the suspension looked bent towards the passenger direction of the car, other than that there was no physical damage to the car. I'll post some pictures
I don't believe 2 cars going 20 equal a 40mph impact. That might be the rate of closure but it's still just a 20mph impact.
Just like hitting a stationary object at 40
if you buy a leveling kit for your truck it may save you if you get in a crash. Just watch the difference between stock head colision and a leveled out truck head on colision and the lift made a huge differnce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCelD0qr8Do&feature=related
What do you mean leveling kit? I'm not that much of a mechanic yet but i'm working on it, please clarify?
One of the considerations when we bought our '08 Wrangler was its ability to handle collisions. Adding extremely rugged off road bumpers and additional armor (that stiffens the body/frame) results in even better crash performance. Just remember that the roof adds almost not strength to the vehicle and the doors do little more than keep out the weather. This is one very stout vehicle. I know a guy who caused a 5 car chain reaction crash when he plowed his Wrangler into a line of stopped traffic. Two cars were totaled. The 2006 Jetta he hit directly and a 2001 Civic in front of the Honda. A 2007 F-150 was considerably damaged (I think he said that the claim was for $4700). He drove his Jeep to the dealer where they found no damage to the Jeep, but recommended that he replace the beat-up bumper cover. His total repair cost? $112 plus 1 hour labor. Didn't even require an alignment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
Jeeps are tuff pieces of work, the crash test of my moms Commander was amazing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhQP0vRrUE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzhQP0vRrUE)
Keep in mind it has a lot less mass to decelerate. Also keep in mind that if your truck had an offset collision with a SMART car while both going 20mph (aka, 40mph offset as in those tests), the mismatch is masses would send the car flying while the damage to your truck would be far less than in the video. Because of the different masses those tests don't really tell the whole story about a collision between two vehicles.
Would you recommend getting one? I'm looking for something thats easier on gas millage and am debating against the Ford Fiesta or the Smart Car
Also check this out , smart car high speed crash test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8)
The 2001 Ford F150 didn't have a good design for that though. If you look at the videos you can see how it does a poor job maintaining the integrity of the passenger compartment in comparison to the other vehicles linked.
They designed it to kill its passengers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKYQ1YiqQ6Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKYQ1YiqQ6Q)
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Looks like mine did pretty good, although its (mine) is a 2500 series.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk4qLBEg8LM&feature=related
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Would you recommend getting one? I'm looking for something thats easier on gas millage and am debating against the Ford Fiesta or the Smart Car
Also check this out , smart car high speed crash test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8)
No, I wouldn't. I would be perfectly happy to drive a compact car so long as everybody else was driving compact cars as well, but that is not and will not be the case. The fact is that a compact car with a great crash test rating will do pretty poorly when the other vehicle is much larger than it is.
They designed it to kill its passengers? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKYQ1YiqQ6Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKYQ1YiqQ6Q)
No, they just didn't design it to protect its passengers as well as newer vehicles. There is a video out there of a crash test between a 1950s Chevy car and 2010ish Chevy car in which the old one does extremely badly. Designs improve.
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I'm not sold on that math. Convince me.
http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html
From Mythbusters results:
Two cars crashing into each other at 50 mph will result in the same damage (for each car) as a single car hitting a wall at 50 mph.
CONFIRMED
In their small scale tests, the Mythbusters compressed clay at 1x and 2x speeds. Their results showed that two objects hitting each other at 1x speed will cause 1x damage. In their full scale tests, the Mythbusters crashed two cars into a wall at 50 and 100 mph as references. They then had two cars going at 50 mph collide into each other. After surveying the results, it was clear that the two cars suffered damage identical to the car that crashed into the wall at 50 mph. The Mythbusters explained that was possible through Newton’s third law of motion. Although the total force was doubled by having two cars, that force also had to be divided between both cars during the crash.
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I'm not sold on that math. Convince me.
http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/collisionmath.html
From Mythbusters results:
Two cars have two crumple zones. Walls don't have crumple zones. That said, for the damage to match you need the two vehicles to mass the same. If my 5000lb truck collides with my wife's 2500lb car, the effect will be worse for her car and not as bad for my truck than hitting the wall.
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I don't disagree. In fact I just read the post of yours I quoted (was out running errands and I did so hurriedly) and it doesn't read the way I thought it did at first glance. I've been in the truck when colliding with a smaller car and I without a doubt came out ahead.
I do disagree with the premise of two 20mph cars creating the force of a 40mph accident.
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I do disagree with the premise of two 20mph cars creating the force of a 40mph accident.
Wouldn't the energy be the same as a 40mph collision, assuming both cars are the same weight?
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Wouldn't the energy be the same as a 40mph collision, assuming both cars are the same weight?
While I only took basic physics classes going on a decade ago I don't believe so.
I did catch the Mythbusters episode where they actually did this full scale and two cars hitting head on at 50mph resulted in damage to each car identical to that of a 50mph crash. Not a 100mph impact.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8E5dUnLmh4&feature
Mythbusters episode.
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If you're interested to see how far car safety has gone in 40 years. off-center head on collision between a 2009 malibu and a 1959 chevy belair. The driver of the belair would have been dead on the spot. The driver of the malibu would have suffered minor knee injury.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=fPF4fBGNK0U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=fPF4fBGNK0U)
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38 years on a volunteer First Aid Squad in NJ, with a major highway running through my small town (pop 4,600). Seems that every 4 or 5 years for the first 30 years there was always a car or van full of young people involved in some type of auto accident, with multiple fatalities. Unfortunately over the last 5 years, it’s gotten worse, with car loads of kids with multiple fatalities almost every year, perhaps cell phones, who knows, but I do know this, it’s always after 2:00AM, (bars close in Jersey at 2:00AM), it’s always lousy weather, seldom are they wearing seatbelts, they been drinking, at the time of the accident, they were speeding.
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I was the only one who recieved injury, the air bag punched my left arm into the window and my right hand rubbed against the air bag as it came out.
Hurts don't it?
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FIXED drive a Chevy...
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FIXED drive a Chevy...
Vehicles that can't move are a lot safer.....
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Vehicles that can't move are a lot safer.....
:rofl :rofl :aok
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Hurts don't it?
The bottom of my left arm was dark purple, bleeding at the wrist, few hours later it just turned a pinkish color and 2 days later its back to my normal Pale color.
I have to say yes, it hurt like a mother ******, I thought my arm was broken
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(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/413169_281172551938337_100001367835388_715342_1392962539_o.jpg)Car I was in, the Chevy Malibu
(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/335735_281172418605017_100001367835388_715341_2003427668_o.jpg) That was where we hit
(http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h375/F35_LightningBravo/410794_281153968606862_100001367835388_715312_1798991872_o.jpg)Air bags
all these were taken an hour after the crash by me
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One of the considerations when we bought our '08 Wrangler was its ability to handle collisions. Adding extremely rugged off road bumpers and additional armor (that stiffens the body/frame) results in even better crash performance. Just remember that the roof adds almost not strength to the vehicle and the doors do little more than keep out the weather. This is one very stout vehicle. I know a guy who caused a 5 car chain reaction crash when he plowed his Wrangler into a line of stopped traffic. Two cars were totaled. The 2006 Jetta he hit directly and a 2001 Civic in front of the Honda. A 2007 F-150 was considerably damaged (I think he said that the claim was for $4700). He drove his Jeep to the dealer where they found no damage to the Jeep, but recommended that he replace the beat-up bumper cover. His total repair cost? $112 plus 1 hour labor. Didn't even require an alignment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8MLVXh37ig)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfKeB43irVU&feature=endscreen&NR=1)
Was the Wrangler up-armored, like yours? Would larger crumple zones have prevented the pileup? Does the stock Wrangler have adequate crumple zones in order to prevent such events? Did the up-armoring of your Wrangler remove crumple zones, or simply make the cabin into a bomb-shelter?
I'm sorry if I sound like an interrogator, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
-Penguin
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There are a lot of variables in a crash. While a 20mph v 20mph head on may have the same closure rate as a 40mph v 0mph crash, the type of collision can be vastly different.
You have inelastic collisions. This is, simply put, where the two masses collide and stay as "one mass" afterwards. In this type of collision, momentum is conserved.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Inelastischer_sto%C3%9F.gif)
Then there are elastic collisions. These are where the two masses collide, but then separate afterwards. In these types of collisions, total kinetic energy is the same before and after the collision, although the kinetic energy of each object will be different.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Elastischer_sto%C3%9F.gif)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Elastischer_sto%C3%9F2.gif)
What all this means is that depending on what you hit and how you hit it, the amount of energy you receive from the collision can be different.
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Cool! Do you know more? Cars are anything but point-masses on a frictionless plane.
-Penguin
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There are a lot of variables in a crash. While a 20mph v 20mph head on may have the same closure rate as a 40mph v 0mph crash, the type of collision can be vastly different.
Actually that crash probably wasn't that bad. The driver probably would survive ok, legs may be a little banged up. The car hit the wall on the drivers side front bumper only (no impact on the passenger side front bumper).
Actually a 20mph v 20mph head is like hitting a wall at 20mph assuming the vehicles are the same weight and hit each other the same way. Both cars decelerate from 20 to 0 same as hitting a wall.
Now a semi-truck going at 20mph v a car at 20mph. The people in the car will feel an impact similar to hitting a wall at 40mph.
Now a SUV vs a car half its weight. The SUV will feel a little more like hitting a wall at 10mph and the car will feel more like hitting a wall at 30mph.
Come on guys, this is simple high-school physics. But then again I was pretty good in high-school physics that I got a B+ (~89% on the grade curve). The funny thing is I would have gotten a A+ (~99%) had I not refused to do my homework because I thought is was too boring. The homework was worth 10% of my total physics grade curve.
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Oh man I remember those problems from physics.
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Was the Wrangler up-armored, like yours? Would larger crumple zones have prevented the pileup? Does the stock Wrangler have adequate crumple zones in order to prevent such events? Did the up-armoring of your Wrangler remove crumple zones, or simply make the cabin into a bomb-shelter?
I'm sorry if I sound like an interrogator, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.
-Penguin
My friend's Wrangler was factory stock... The best way for him to prevent the pile-up was not to be dicking around with his GPS while driving on a commuter road. I've added armor (steel skidplates) to the underside, which stiffens the frame as well as adding greater protection of vital mechanicals. I also have rock rails (protecting sheet metal from damage). I have a very strong off road front bumper, which I will not install until spring. The stock bumper is quite stout, but can receive cosmetic damage to the polymer cover. The replacement bumper increases approach angle, and handle impacts with rock and boulder. My Jeep is fitted with front and side airbags, a reinforced roll cage with additional padding. Wranglers (since 2007) have break-away fenders. You can simply grab one and partially rip it off. This is to minimize trail damage. I keep a plastic bag aboard with enough replacement clips to reattached two fenders should I need to. I have added heavy-duty differential covers, and welded on reinforcement gussets to the axle mounts and "Cs". I've also made other improvements, all geared to minimize the risk of damage in severe terrain.
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Come on guys, this is simple high-school physics. ... (self-aggrandizing mumbo jumbo)
You get but a taste of the physics involved in high school. This concept isn't usually covered in any real depth until you hit your second semester of college.
I'll use my SUV as an example. It weighs nearly 4.5 tons. If I collide head on (inelastic collision) with another vehicle that weighs, lets say 2 tons, I'm bringing a whole lot more energy to this party, 2.25 times as much. The smaller car will receive a lot of that energy in order to balance the system out. If i hit a stationary car, they are more likely to bounce off (elastic collision) and they will receive less energy.
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So much for public transportation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gvuGeRNHMU
:O
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So at student driving school we were hydroplaning in the parking lot before we went to go grab pizza to show how the car reacts and how to regain control.
You just love a good beating, don't you :rofl :rofl
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I don't believe 2 cars going 20 equal a 40mph impact. That might be the rate of closure but it's still just a 20mph impact.
Actually you have to take into consideration the inertia of both vehicles in opposite directions.
The ford was also hitting an immovable object which increases damage.
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So at student driving school we were hydroplaning in the parking lot before we went to go grab pizza to show how the car reacts and how to regain control. Well we took a turn to sharp and rammed into the curb doing 30 and the bags deployed, no one in the car was hurt and the only damage was the dash where the bags came out.
Anyway that got me to thinking about how my F-150 would stand up to a crash, on the roads here my average speed taken from posted signs is around 50, This is a crash test video at 40 mph, its kinda scary knowing that would it could look like and I know the driver would either be dead or seriously injured
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8)
*cough* Somebody *cough* oversteered and accelerated. The car either senced the loss of traction and that is why it deployed the airbags at such a relatively low impact, or it's just designed to do so at that speed and such an abrupt stop.
That said, I actually got lucky one occasions and to two degrees at about a 50 HO impact. I was driving down highway 5 here in central CA, veering freely from the oncomming lanes at a high-speed was a rolling full-spare tire. The person next to me had been paralleling me for a few minutes and braked in unison with me, pinning me in my lane pretty much, only had a couple seconds if that to make any decisions or maneuvers - the choices were the shoulder at speed, force an impact with the paralleling car to avoid the HO impact, or brake and eat it and maybe pray it veers outa the lane in time. Tried my best to stop n' slow down as it was all I could do, but still took it square on the front grill probabley doing ~50 after slowing only a second or two. So first bit of luck is actually going for it and eating it dead center on the grill and bumper, as at the time (~'04), insurance policies/practices (3-major components/$5k or less cost, otherwise scrap), vehicles's value ('01 Honda Accord), etc. it worked out to being repairable and fully covered. The radiator and bumper pretty much ate it, along with the leading edge of the hood and got folded and shoved up against the engine. The wild spare got bounced almost straight up and cleared the rest of the hood and windshield and even the rest of the highway landing in some farmer's field. And because I took it dead center on the bumper and frame and radiator, it missed all five forward airbag sensors (I think a sixth or more if it broke the engine off its mounts/brackets), otherwise it would have been a dangerous and unecessary deployment. If I recall, there was a high and low sensor on both front corners, around the headlamps, but only one on the lowest-most front-center frame around the grill/radiator region (and the tires size + maybe a little bounce just barely verticly cleared it... had it been something protruding forward-most lower to the ground like a baricade or curb, it would of nailed the sensor (if not the other two lower-front ones).
But anywho, if you're curious how your truck might handle impacting a curb vs a tree or vs a whatever, I think most vehicles have all their crash/collapse/crumple/folding zones and airbag sensor locations published online, I did a bit of research after my incident wondering why the airbags did or didn't deploy.
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But anywho, if you're curious how your truck might handle impacting a curb vs a tree or vs a whatever, I think most vehicles have all their crash/collapse/crumple/folding zones and airbag sensor locations published online, I did a bit of research after my incident wondering why the airbags did or didn't deploy.
What you refer to as airbag sensor are really deceleration sensor. A mere impact on one sensor will not activate a modern SRS(Suplemental restrain system). An impact sensor works like a switch activated at a set Acceleration force (G). A hit like a tire hitting your bumper will hardly decelerate your car. Thus the SRS will not trigger. Even a direct impact to a front sensor will not trigger it. There are redundant trigger system built in these devices. A front SRS system will usually comprise 2 front crash sensor mounted on or near the corners of the car and a center airbag sensor usually mounted inside the car under the central console. For the SRS to trigger airbags deployment, you got to have at least 2 sensor trigger, including the center airbag. Also, modern SRS are armed only at speed exceeding 15-20 MPH. All in all, even a direct hit to a sensor would not trigger the airbags.
The way many of these sensor are built is a a simple steel cylinder stuck to a magnet. When the sensor(and the car along with it) is decelerated abruptly, the inertia of the steel cylinder cause it to unsitck from the magnet and make contact with 2 leads inside the assembly, closing the signal circuit.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ii1ukGkfijY/SqemhLc3ZgI/AAAAAAAABEI/brG3uQDqoJI/clip_image0033.jpg?imgmax=800)
magnet type sensor
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ii1ukGkfijY/SqemicSuVPI/AAAAAAAABEM/1F7wLZzXW-k/clip_image0043.jpg?imgmax=800)
spring type sensor
You can clearly see why a hit on the sensor would not cause is to be triggered unless there is tremendous deformation(usually not experienced during light impact).
:salute
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*cough* Somebody *cough* oversteered and accelerated. The car either senced the loss of traction and that is why it deployed the airbags at such a relatively low impact, or it's just designed to do so at that speed and such an abrupt stop.
:confused:
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Dang......we had a "driving range" where our two driver's education teachers sat like tennis judges on chairs under umbrellas and kept an eye on what was going on.
We were 4 deep in 1976 cutlass supremes with a 403 engine.....in close proximity to 5 other identical models also filled with 4 students each.
Nobody ever wrecked into another car but more than a few "rockfords" were performed.
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There is a youtube video going around of a 5th gen camaro drifting. He is not smooth and throws the car back and forth..... the bags deploy.
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What you refer to as airbag sensor are really deceleration sensor. A mere impact on one sensor will not activate a modern SRS(Suplemental restrain system). An impact sensor works like a switch activated at a set Acceleration force (G). A hit like a tire hitting your bumper will hardly decelerate your car. Thus the SRS will not trigger. Even a direct impact to a front sensor will not trigger it. There are redundant trigger system built in these devices. A front SRS system will usually comprise 2 front crash sensor mounted on or near the corners of the car and a center airbag sensor usually mounted inside the car under the central console. For the SRS to trigger airbags deployment, you got to have at least 2 sensor trigger, including the center airbag. Also, modern SRS are armed only at speed exceeding 15-20 MPH. All in all, even a direct hit to a sensor would not trigger the airbags.
The way many of these sensor are built is a a simple steel cylinder stuck to a magnet. When the sensor(and the car along with it) is decelerated abruptly, the inertia of the steel cylinder cause it to unsitck from the magnet and make contact with 2 leads inside the assembly, closing the signal circuit.
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ii1ukGkfijY/SqemhLc3ZgI/AAAAAAAABEI/brG3uQDqoJI/clip_image0033.jpg?imgmax=800)
magnet type sensor
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_Ii1ukGkfijY/SqemicSuVPI/AAAAAAAABEM/1F7wLZzXW-k/clip_image0043.jpg?imgmax=800)
spring type sensor
You can clearly see why a hit on the sensor would not cause is to be triggered unless there is tremendous deformation(usually not experienced during light impact).
:salute
Very informative, but even with that diagram I don't understand (yet) how the spring types mechanicaly function (at least reliabley), lol.
I do understand there are differnt types of sensors, years ago when I read up on it I read they had impact/crumple sensors (detecting structural "changes") and deacceleration sensors (now you're moving - now you're not). I believe the center one that barely got missed in my incident was an impact/crumple variety sensor, in addition to two other similar ones located around the front lamps/corners. The two other sensors around those same forward positions were of another variety, possibley deaccelration. I was aware after researching, even if the front center-most sensor directly took the impact, that it requires at least one additional trigger, possibley more, including a confirmed triggering from a deacceleration sensor.
But it just adds to the curiosity of why they deployed in Raptor's situation. When researching after my incident I concluded a number of things need to line up for airbags (or any SRS) to deploy, they don't jsut happen randomly.
:confused:
:banana:
(Do I need to rewrite that because it's too confusing of a mess, or did I miss the part where he said the curb hit the car sitting in the parking lot?)
There is a youtube video going around of a 5th gen camaro drifting. He is not smooth and throws the car back and forth..... the bags deploy.
I'm curious, anyone got a link? :lol
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who needs driver school when there's forza... :D
jk wish more people had to hydroplane and slide in gravel to get a license, here it seems like all you gotta do is not be drunk when you go to get one.
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Drifting camaro airbag deployment............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL4VwhYSE8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL4VwhYSE8)
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who needs driver school when there's forza... :D
jk wish more people had to hydroplane and slide in gravel to get a license, here it seems like all you gotta do is not be drunk when you go to get one.
That's my take on it, wasn't that long ago I earned my own, but still - if you passed 100-questions mulitple-choice, don't show up drunk for your behind-the-wheel evaluation, and show them your original BC, SS card and a piece of paper with any insurance company's letterhead and scribbled in crayon saying you have insurance - all done. You didn't really "earn your chops" and learn how to drive and "feel" a vehicle until after that.
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Drifting camaro airbag deployment............
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL4VwhYSE8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpL4VwhYSE8)
Waste of tires....
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Waste of tires....
I believe the word you're looking for is "fun."
I have some Hoosier A6s I'll be leaving on the track and autocross courses. $300+/side new in my size. All in the name of fun.
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I believe the word you're looking for is "fun."
I have some Hoosier A6s I'll be leaving on the track and autocross courses. $300+/side new in my size. All in the name of fun.
Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.
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Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.
Tires for cool cars like Golfers are 'spensive. Get a '93 Taurus, $400 for a set of tires.
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Tires for cool cars like Golfers are 'spensive. Get a '93 Taurus, $400 for a set of tires.
See that sort of stuff is different but brand new car brand new expensive tires? Im not bad off but i cant afford new tires every couple of months.
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Very informative, but even with that diagram I don't understand (yet) how the spring types mechanicaly function (at least reliabley), lol.
I do understand there are differnt types of sensors, years ago when I read up on it I read they had impact/crumple sensors (detecting structural "changes") and deacceleration sensors (now you're moving - now you're not). I believe the center one that barely got missed in my incident was an impact/crumple variety sensor, in addition to two other similar ones located around the front lamps/corners. The two other sensors around those same forward positions were of another variety, possibley deaccelration. I was aware after researching, even if the front center-most sensor directly took the impact, that it requires at least one additional trigger, possibley more, including a confirmed triggering from a deacceleration sensor.
But it just adds to the curiosity of why they deployed in Raptor's situation. When researching after my incident I concluded a number of things need to line up for airbags (or any SRS) to deploy, they don't jsut happen randomly.
While there were crumple sensors, I dont believe they are still used in recent model/year. Anyway, the deceleration sensors proved to be a very reliable type of sensor and are now almost exclusively used.
The srping type sensors work a lot like the magnetic type. You have a steel cylinder and, wrapped around it, a spiral shaped spring. One end of the spring is attached to the cylinder, the other to the body of the sensor. Now the sensor is triggered when the deceleration force imparted on the steel cylinder is such that it overcome the tension of the spring and allow it to move forward and touch the contacts. The side airbags sensor use the same arrangement but, obviously, are mounted to be triggered by a lateral impact.
As to the why's the SRS was triggered in Raptor's incident, there are 2 possible explanation
#1 and the most likely by far. The deceleration was brutal enough for the deployement condition to be met and triggered the squib(that's what the explosive in the airbag is called).
#2 there was a multiple malfunction in the SRS(quite unlikely when you know how these systems are monitored by the ECU's but still)
A few others interestings facts about SRS that you may or may not know
-modern SRS usually sport multistage squib for multiple deplyement speed. Usually 2 charges, 1 small and a larger one, giving 3 deployement speed. Slow for the light charge, med for the large charge and fast for both. The selected squib trigger will vary with vehicule speed.
-SRS system often incorporate pyrtechnic seat-belt pre-tensionner. On an impact, a squib in the seat-belt assembly trigger and pull on the belt in an attempt to keep your body from moving forward too far, thus optimizing the function of the front airbags.
-all in all, a modern (circa 2009 and up) can incoporate as much as 16 explosive charge
-You have to be at least 10 inches away from the steering wheel when driving to allow sufficient space for the steering wheel airbag to deploy properly. If you're too close, you risk sever injuries
-Always wear the seat belt. Even if the airbag would be enough to protect you, the seat belt will help keep you inside the car were the vehicule to roll.
-The SRS on some cars will stay activated as long as 15 minutes after the battery has been unplugged. There are condensator built in the SRS ECU that will provide power in case the battery is destroyed by an impact.
These systems are really marvel of engineering and biometric. While earlier systems were rather primitive and sometimes even unsafe, you can be confident that modern SRS systems are reliable and effective.
Drive safely
:salute
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Nothing wrong with fun but i certainly wouldnt spend ( a set of tires is about 1000 bucks now?) that much for an hour of fun and certainly not in such a new car now if he was using an older car on cheaper tires go for it but if he doesnt mind throw me a couple piles of cash.
Track tires cost. The all season Pirellis that come stock (PZero Nero) are a much more reasonable $160/corner. I have quite a bit of the rear ones smeared in the wells and splashed on the rear panels from 50 passes and associated burn outs last season at the strip. I'll be putting some Mickey Thompson drag radials for drag strip use this season.
Some of us like playing with our newer cars. I swapped shifters/brackets and driveshafts from the stock ones and installed a line lock as well.
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Whenever "drifting" is mentioned, I always think of this guy dragging himself about.
(http://images.wikia.com/familyguy/images/2/21/307_jesse.jpg)
Here's some real drifting from 1938........some of it 4 wheel drifting with Nuvolari both pushing and oversteering at the same time in the auto union.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmCJvDUWXaY
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Ha!
You going to have any cars up at PBIR 3/17? American muscle car shoot out. My coworker and I are bringing our rentals (5.0 Mustang and Camaro SS) up. Neither of us have done a pass thus far with an auto trams so we'll have to figure out how to launch one using 2 time shots. What could go wrong?
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What do you mean leveling kit? I'm not that much of a mechanic yet but i'm working on it, please clarify?
stock F150's have a raked apperance ( front end is lower than rear) you can get a leveling kit that brings the front end up to the same height as the rear, i did that to mine and it even made it handle better.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/fordtruck.jpg)
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No PBIR for us.
We build primarily standing mile cars.
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P-Zeros for the camaro are $263.00 a corner.
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P-Zeros for the camaro are $263.00 a corner.
Toyos for my truck are over $500 a corner.
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In 2005, My friend and I were in a 2001 GMC Sierra king cab. We were hit head on at 60 (off set on drivers side) by a 2005 Chevy Cobalt. Everyone walked away from the crash except the passenger in the colbalt. She was the only one to suffer injuries at the scene. She suffered crushed ankles. Maybe 3 months later is when myself and friend started having issues. I have 2 slipped discs and a pinched nerve in my neck due to my face smashing the deploying airbag. He has some pretty serious back issues now. I hurt myself more after the crash trying to get out of the truck. If anyone has ever had airbags deploy on them, they know the powder smells like burning wires. I freaked out and had to kick the window out because I thought we were on fire.
My point, I went a couple of months later a bought a 2001 gmc sierra king cab. Those things are built like tanks. But now I drive little rice burning imports with hopped up engines. If I crash in one of these, Im good as dead.
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Toyos for my truck are over $500 a corner.
Ouch
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stock F150's have a raked apperance ( front end is lower than rear) you can get a leveling kit that brings the front end up to the same height as the rear, i did that to mine and it even made it handle better.
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s35/68zoom/fordtruck.jpg)
Hmm, good to know. I assume this is also in tandem with you usually having a light to no load in the back?
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In 2005, My friend and I were in a 2001 GMC Sierra king cab. We were hit head on at 60 (off set on drivers side) by a 2005 Chevy Cobalt. Everyone walked away from the crash except the passenger in the colbalt. She was the only one to suffer injuries at the scene. She suffered crushed ankles. Maybe 3 months later is when myself and friend started having issues. I have 2 slipped discs and a pinched nerve in my neck due to my face smashing the deploying airbag. He has some pretty serious back issues now. I hurt myself more after the crash trying to get out of the truck. If anyone has ever had airbags deploy on them, they know the powder smells like burning wires. I freaked out and had to kick the window out because I thought we were on fire.
My point, I went a couple of months later a bought a 2001 gmc sierra king cab. Those things are built like tanks. But now I drive little rice burning imports with hopped up engines. If I crash in one of these, Im good as dead.
What kind of "rice-burning imports" do you drive? What make, model, and year? Though not 'tanks,' they certainly aren't paper bags with wheels.
-Penguin
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Hmm, good to know. I assume this is also in tandem with you usually having a light to no load in the back?
i have Rear Axel leveling bags for when i haul real heavy loads to keep it level, just hauling things aound in the bed ( tools,welder,ect.) hasnt affected or dropped the rear past level anyway, if anything does i have the bags to level it back, the cost of the leveling kit was $289 then you also realigned the front end.
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What kind of "rice-burning imports" do you drive? What make, model, and year? Though not 'tanks,' they certainly aren't paper bags with wheels.
-Penguin
Right now Got a 95 acura integra 4 door with a dual overhead vtech, tuned to chrome and it hit 410 to the tranny on the dyno. putting nos in it next week. Got the turb, 1.8 vtech.
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Jewelry is to women as chrome is to men :D
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Jewelry is to women as chrome is to men :D
I meant "crome" the program used to tune cars on the dyno.
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Regardless, Thats the only poem or whatever I just said that I could ever make in my life :x I feel so special!
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who needs driver school when there's forza... :D
jk wish more people had to hydroplane and slide in gravel to get a license, here it seems like all you gotta do is not be drunk when you go to get one.
Agreed.
Most people on the road have no idea what to do once they start to lose traction. I wonder how many accidents could be avoided if they actually had a clue. I've seen a few videos of drivers overcorrecting and turning a recoverable car into a rollover accident in no time. Then there's all the times on my commute that I've hit some traffic, looked in the rear view, and saw a giant plume of tire smoke from someone who locked 'em up.
All it takes is a little practice in a wet parking lot. Combine that with some dirt road stuff and you're golden. As a teen I went off the road at over 90mph in the Mustang. That little bit of experience I had saved my life (and allowed me to learn a very important lesson). :aok
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Agreed.
Most people on the road have no idea what to do once they start to lose traction. I wonder how many accidents could be avoided if they actually had a clue. I've seen a few videos of drivers overcorrecting and turning a recoverable car into a rollover accident in no time. Then there's all the times on my commute that I've hit some traffic, looked in the rear view, and saw a giant plume of tire smoke from someone who locked 'em up.
All it takes is a little practice in a wet parking lot. Combine that with some dirt road stuff and you're golden. As a teen I went off the road at over 90mph in the Mustang. That little bit of experience I had saved my life (and allowed me to learn a very important lesson). :aok
Its the law here, gotta take a 2 week course Fri-Sun for 2 weeks and 6 hours of instructor driving before you can attempt to get your license
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Agreed.
Most people on the road have no idea what to do once they start to lose traction. I wonder how many accidents could be avoided if they actually had a clue. I've seen a few videos of drivers overcorrecting and turning a recoverable car into a rollover accident in no time. Then there's all the times on my commute that I've hit some traffic, looked in the rear view, and saw a giant plume of tire smoke from someone who locked 'em up.
All it takes is a little practice in a wet parking lot. Combine that with some dirt road stuff and you're golden. As a teen I went off the road at over 90mph in the Mustang. That little bit of experience I had saved my life (and allowed me to learn a very important lesson). :aok
Drivers training is a joke in the US. I really wish there was more to it, like the Finnish method.
I have a kid whos just starting training this year. I already have a "performance" driving course in mind for him. Could save his life AND my insurance rates too!
There is a lot more to driving a car than 99% of drivers know. EVERYONE should know basic handleing principles. Differences between 4x4, RWD, FWD, AWD (front and read biased) are lost on most people. Mention things like "lift-off" or "power on" and under/over-steer you get :headscratch:
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i have Rear Axel leveling bags for when i haul real heavy loads to keep it level, just hauling things aound in the bed ( tools,welder,ect.) hasnt affected or dropped the rear past level anyway, if anything does i have the bags to level it back, the cost of the leveling kit was $289 then you also realigned the front end.
I have bags on my Chevy HD2500 Duramax/Allison. I highly recomment them for haulers.