Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Chauncy on January 30, 2012, 09:46:27 AM
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Sorry if this is already up somewhere or is general knowledge:
I know that the flight model is set in here to balance life-like flight with game play (ok I am sure most of us in here would become one of the eliminated Ensign's in an F4U in real life). But I was wondering if somewhere there exists the settings for as accurate to actual flight...torque...lift etc.. as possible.
If so, it it possible to create (if only a personal one...one of those temp arenas) an arena where the settings are set thusly?
I remember when this game came out and maybe my brain is foggy, but I do remember spending several early sortie attempts doing circles on the runway in single engine planes trying to get them to go straight down the runway. I also remember several of us just sitting in the "officer's club" on a cv taking verbal bets on whether or not the next guy would crash on takeoff or landing. So, much fun to watch. Yes, we can still do that now, but it just seems easier.
I realise it would not be fun to crash every 5 minutes and I am not proposing a main arena for "full realism" flight, because I know that even when / if the best settings that could be obtained were put into an arena people would still complain about this or that. I am also not asking for those settings to be developed if they do not exist. But, if they do exist, even if only to be a base from which the game's arena settings are balanced from could we have the ability to do this. It is not that I would enjoy playing the part of Charlton Heston in the Midway movie trying to land on a CV every time. But like I said.
"Just for giggles" is it possible.
Chauncy
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Crap!
I thought this was gunna be about hot stewardess' !
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I have 20 hrs of t-6 texan time now and can put it through its paces from takeoff to a full aerobatic routine to landing.
so pardon me but I think I can shed some light on this topic from personal experience since I also have 6000hrs playing Aces High.
this game is realistic. its not watered down. the watered down options like autotakeoff and stall limiter are controllable by you the player.
what is missing can not with current technology be implemented. things like G forces, the control response of the actual airplane is approximated to facilitate use of current game controller hardware etc. things that you think you are missing in coding are not missing. its modelled.
what you are missing is actually being there in the fire breathing oil spitting bird caged monster as you careen through the sky like a demon. and trust me it is awsome to experience and it is accessable to the masses thanks to the large supply of T-6 Texans still around. everything behaves the same as your faster p51 mustangs just the needles show lower speeds.
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There has not been any torque reduction for gameplay purposes. IIRC pulling back on the stick to lock the tail wheel was added though.
Grab an F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV, Tempest or such and, without locking the tail wheel, advance the throttle to WEP and see what happens.
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There has not been any torque reduction for gameplay purposes. IIRC pulling back on the stick to lock the tail wheel was added though.
Grab an F4U-4, Spitfire Mk XIV, Tempest or such and, without locking the tail wheel, advance the throttle to WEP and see what happens.
He will learn a new term.
Ground Loop...
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I wonder how many hours I have in sims? Probably not a number big enough.
But I have about 300 hours in a various real world ships including C152, C172, C182, C210, C177 and Cozy Mk IV. And I I think AH is pretty darn good simulator.
Thinking about getting a tail wheel checkout in the T-6 myself.
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But our flight model keeps the ball centered for you, I've always wondered if there was any way to turn off this auto coordination. Maybe it doesn't, I haven't played in awhile.
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But our flight model keeps the ball centered for you, I've always wondered if there was any way to turn off this auto coordination. Maybe it doesn't, I haven't played in awhile.
Turn combat trim off.
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Combat trim does not center the ball for you. You bank and you'll still slip. It just trims the rudder, as pilots would do (either via trim settings or pushing a little harder on the pedals -- remember real world doesn't "spring to center" like USB joystick controls do)
As good as the AH flight model is (best you can find so far!!) it does have certain observable lackings here or there. Mind you, not too many. It is still by far the best WW2 flight sim of them all.
One of them is this apparent lack or torque. HiTech says the torque is fully modeled, but something "dulls" it IMO. Compared to previous versions of Aces High, we have less noticable torque effect causing spin-outs on planes at slow speed turns, and on runways, and doing ground loops.
The P-51B used to be far better at turn fighting than the P-51D because it had the razorback and the spin was less likely to happen in tight stall fights. This was back in AH1, before the change. Now, it seems something has changed.
HT says the Torque is still there, so I can only say "something else" has caused it not to be as effective. Some underlying variable or code process makes the end result not the same as in real life.
Of course, this in no way helps HTC figure out what the problem is (if any) and resolve it, so there's nothing I can do about it.
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One of them is this apparent lack or torque. HiTech says the torque is fully modeled, but something "dulls" it IMO. Compared to previous versions of Aces High, we have less noticable torque effect causing spin-outs on planes at slow speed turns, and on runways, and doing ground loops.
HT says the Torque is still there, so I can only say "something else" has caused it not to be as effective.
I am of the theory that the longer one plays/becomes use to the flight model, the more a person might think stuff has changed or think that the modeling has been turned down or dulled down....... but in reality it is the case that they are so used to the flight dynamics that it causes one to imagine that the modeling has been relaxed, where as in reality it has never been messed with..... the player has only become used to it and therefore it becomes easier for them.....
to add, HTC has always posted any changes to the flight model in the notes, when they have occurred
YMMV
:cheers:
TC
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I think that the modeling is very good. It lacks the g sensations and the little pockets that give flying that bumpy feel, but otherwise I would say that HTC has gotten it right.
I would be in favor of an optional more realistic engine controls system at some point in the future.
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I think that the modeling is very good. It lacks the g sensations and the little pockets that give flying that bumpy feel, but otherwise I would say that HTC has gotten it right.
I would be in favor of an optional more realistic engine controls system at some point in the future.
:O
I'm trying to think of the most cost-effective and safe way to eliminate them from my homebuilt and you want to put them in a sim? :furious
:D
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I am of the theory that the longer one plays/becomes use to the flight model, the more a person might think stuff has changed or think that the modeling has been turned down or dulled down....... but in reality it is the case that they are so used to the flight dynamics that it causes one to imagine that the modeling has been relaxed, where as in reality it has never been messed with..... the player has only become used to it and therefore it becomes easier for them.....
to add, HTC has always posted any changes to the flight model in the notes, when they have occurred
this.
it is called muscle memory and much of flying real airplanes revolves around the automation the human body is capable of.
let me give you the ultimate example. your a kid again and you just learned to ride a bike. you don't know what physics or bike modelling is but as you ride more it becomes very easy and now your doing tricks and going faster and faster. it all becomes second nature and it gets easier with practice.
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this.
it is called muscle memory and much of flying real airplanes revolves around the automation the human body is capable of.
let me give you the ultimate example. your a kid again and you just learned to ride a bike. you don't know what physics or bike modelling is but as you ride more it becomes very easy and now your doing tricks and going faster and faster. it all becomes second nature and it gets easier with practice.
Yeah, but 30 years after I've learned that, why does it hurt more now when I fall and break my arse? :D
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I would love to see a little bit of turbulence modeled from time to time. Maybe make things get a little rough when clouds are nearby.
Other than that the flight model to me seems top notch. I have a few hours in a 172 (unofficially) but it feels pretty accurate considering all of the sensations that can't be modeled.. at least not in the same way.
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a couple things I remember about the super decathlon I flew was the rudder peddles were much stiffer to move....and the stick did not self center, so it was much touchier then my CH stick, any tiny movement in the stick you felt.
otherwise they fly pretty much exactly the same.
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a couple things I remember about the super decathlon I flew was the rudder peddles were much stiffer to move....and the stick did not self center, so it was much touchier then my CH stick, any tiny movement in the stick you felt.
otherwise they fly pretty much exactly the same.
Well, perhaps not exactly the same, but you didn't fly a Cessna.
Cessna's have a bomber style yoke. You know, like a P-38 :noid
:rofl
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Well, perhaps not exactly the same, but you didn't fly a Cessna.
Cessna's have a bomber style yoke. You know, like a P-38 :noid
:rofl
not exactly, but so damn close I had zero issues flying it, except the vertigo :cry
the stick was so touchy a tiny movement felt like when you are at the top of a roller coaster and start going down that stomach in the throat sensation....
plus the whole thought that if I crash it im dead, we don't have to deal with that in AH so it allows much more freedom in how you "fly" and chances you will take.
I cant wait until I can get back up in the real deal. :x
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to add, HTC has always posted any changes to the flight model in the notes, when they have occurred
Beg to differ, but they have not always. There have been a number of times folks have pointed out problems after an update and HTC said it was a feature. Or had to present new findings that weren't listed in the change log. It's happened enough to prove the quote above incorrect.
I also don't buy "muscle memory" either... I know it is a fact and it exists, but it isn't related to aces high on this topic.
I'm talking observable phenomenon like getting into a slow turn fight in a plane and spinning into the inner wing repeatedly, vs getting into a stall fight and just mushing into the stall.
The bubble top P-series planes used to be less stable than their razorback counterparts. That's not the case anymore. Not as much as it used to be. There was a definite advantage to taking the B pony over the D for turn fighting... Now, not so much.
We also have expert F4u commentary that says our current modeling is seriously toned down in comparison to how the planes act in real life.
So, I reject the answer "Muscle Memory" as it doesn't apply to the observed disparity of the current flight model.
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this.
it is called muscle memory and much of flying real airplanes revolves around the automation the human body is capable of.
let me give you the ultimate example. your a kid again and you just learned to ride a bike. you don't know what physics or bike modelling is but as you ride more it becomes very easy and now your doing tricks and going faster and faster. it all becomes second nature and it gets easier with practice.
What do you know... ya noob. :neener:
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Yeah, but 30 years after I've learned that, why does it hurt more now when I fall and break my arse? :D
Why that is simple , it is bigger than it used to be.
HiTech
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Why that is simple , it is bigger than it used to be.
HiTech
kaching :rofl
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Why that is simple , it is bigger than it used to be.
HiTech
:rofl
:ahand
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Why that is simple , it is bigger than it used to be.
HiTech
You can't argue with logic, I guess.
:salute
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Combat trim does not center the ball for you...It just trims the rudder,
And trimming the rudder centers the ball. Which answers Tordon22's question on how to avoid the ball being auto-centered, since combat trim is the reason it happens and I'm assuming he's asking why it happens when the auto pilot isn't on.
You're correct that combat trim does not keep the ball centered at all times in all conditions but neither does anything else.
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combat trim does not keep the ball centered at all times in all conditions but neither does anything else.
This guy does!! (http://www.americanwarbird.com/) Man I swear, flew an hour with Kevin in the T-6 doing acro -- I had to tap the Turn and Slip because I didn't think it functioned. He is very much in tune with the airplane. As soon as I started flying I was slapping the ends out of the tube with the ball -- no doubt that it wasn't stuck.
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This guy does!! (http://www.americanwarbird.com/) Man I swear, flew an hour with Kevin in the T-6 doing acro -- I had to tap the Turn and Slip because I didn't think it functioned. He is very much in tune with the airplane. As soon as I started flying I was slapping the ends out of the tube with the ball -- no doubt that it wasn't stuck.
I said anything not anyone. :D
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Thank you all for your comments and feedback.
Yes, one of the greatest additions for us ground loop commandos was the stick-all-the-way-back lock rear wheel.
I do it so much now that I do not realise I am...but do notice when for some reason I don't have my hand on the stick (reaching for a beer, popcorn, or a labrador sticking his head in my lap)
Please don't get me wrong, I am not complaining in the least about the flight model, (now those spring loaded jumping trees are another matter), what prompted this was a conv. that I had with a guy at work that was talking about buying some flight sim to "just goof around in" and I told him to simply dl AH and goof around there. It was then that my mind set the wayback machine...waay back, and I thought about how hard it used to be etc... as I mentioned in my first post.
Even after I was gone for 7 years, then came back....granted it took me a couple days to get my first honest kill, but the flying part was kind of still there (Proof of the ride-a-bike theory?).
Chauncy
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A large majority of period aircraft had tail wheel locks that were engaged before takeoff. Some of the others had fixed tail wheels. In the P-51, this was done when pulling back on the stick. On others, it was a lock engaged by a lever or switch. There is method to HTC's madness after all.
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I said anything not anyone. :D
then you fly your first jet and turn the yaw damper on and don't touch the rudder pedals till you turn it off again. so yes some "things" do this too and it is easy mode in real life.
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A large majority of period aircraft had tail wheel locks that were engaged before takeoff. Some of the others had fixed tail wheels. In the P-51, this was done when pulling back on the stick. On others, it was a lock engaged by a lever or switch. There is method to HTC's madness after all.
The one in the TA 152 is broken :noid
:bolt:
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then you fly your first jet and turn the yaw damper on and don't touch the rudder pedals till you turn it off again. so yes some "things" do this too and it is easy mode in real life.
Yes, I failed to take modern jets into account while answering a question about Aces High flight modeling. :headscratch:
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I think the auto-landing is buggered...I keep bouncing and sometimes break the landing gear. HTC, please fix the auto-landing system!!!!1!11!!! :joystick:
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This guy does!! (http://www.americanwarbird.com/) Man I swear, flew an hour with Kevin in the T-6 doing acro -- I had to tap the Turn and Slip because I didn't think it functioned. He is very much in tune with the airplane. As soon as I started flying I was slapping the ends out of the tube with the ball -- no doubt that it wasn't stuck.
colmbo , ever have those days where the air had been bumpy for a while, then later became glass. After a while your feet and toes are becoming tired and sore then you realized you have had them both pushing hard on the rudders to cut down on the fish tailing?
HiTech
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I showed a buddy of mine The AcesHigh Flight Model. I thought I'd start light and off for his first flight in a Hurri.
His first observation; "Since when does a Hurricane have a stall horn!" :uhoh
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I showed a buddy of mine The AcesHigh Flight Model. I thought I'd start light and off for his first flight in a Hurri.
His first observation; "Since when does a Hurricane have a stall horn!" :uhoh
See here:
Though not realistic, I think it helps make up for not being able to really "feel" the aircraft. Even with WB, I don't take it as a literal stall horn, but more of an indicator as to the feeling of the aircraft - - same deal the the little attitude tick-marks... (just as long as it's not WAY overdone like in Fighters Squadron).
ivedog
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Fly with The Volunteers! (http://volunteers.home.att.net/home.html)
P.S. what the heck is with that animated GIF in your sig???
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I showed a buddy of mine The AcesHigh Flight Model. I thought I'd start light and off for his first flight in a Hurri.
His first observation; "Since when does a Hurricane have a stall horn!" :uhoh
I changed the stall horn .wav to a wind buffet .wav a long time ago. As the buffeting sound gets louder I know I am closer to the stall.
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I went the opposite route of the "buffet". I turned off the featured stall buffet sound because it sounded really annoying, like a toy machine gun noise machine was going off. Turned it all the way down. Then I turned stall horn down so that when stalling it's not the loudest thing in the cockpit. It makes a subtle hint for me and I can still notice it, but I'm not relying on it. I don't want the wind to mix in with high speed diving sounds, etc.
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I showed a buddy of mine The AcesHigh Flight Model. I thought I'd start light and off for his first flight in a Hurri.
His first observation; "Since when does a Hurricane have a stall horn!" :uhoh
It beats waiting for the chair to move.
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See here:
P.S. what the heck is with that animated GIF in your sig???
She is Boxxy. U see?
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colmbo , ever have those days where the air had been bumpy for a while, then later became glass. After a while your feet and toes are becoming tired and sore then you realized you have had them both pushing hard on the rudders to cut down on the fish tailing?
LOL! Yep.
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In an effort to teach myself to pay attention to the stall alarm I replaced the default .wav with one of my mother-in-law nagging me.
Now you can see why/how I get shot down so much. I would rather die than put my acft into a stall to evade.
Chauncy
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She is Boxxy. U see?
i own you.