Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Tango on February 04, 2012, 06:20:04 PM
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Had a friend comment about Iran getting the bomb and possibly using it in an EMP attack. Hes not an expert on it but was commenting how bad it would be with just 1 bomb going off over the country.
It sounded like it would pretty much destroy the country by destroying all our electronics that weren't shielded (which is pretty much everything).
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Everything you want to know can be found here.
http://www.futurescience.com/emp.html
I didn't read the whole article, because I'm not really concerned about the whole situation.
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Before you start hyperventilating, 1) the EMP effect radius is not that large, 2) Iran has no platform capable of reaching the United States and 3) it would be 100% sheer suicide for Iran to do that.
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Huh... interesting article... So in layman's terms. We're boned if anyone tosses an EMP at us. And the smaller the bomb the easier it is to make a better EMP.
Without significant infrastructure hardening, we'd have to start back at zero for all our power and manufacturing needs.
Well gee... that's not as bad as being nuked till kingdom come... but still pretty nasty.
The good news is, our countermeasures against such an attack are immune, the only people who could pull it off know that our counter-attack won't be affected, so the only thing to worry about is rogue states. Two of which(Iran/N. Korea) would probably do it if they could, and to hell with the consequences, but fortunately they can't.
I guess... back to worrying about big rocks hitting the planet then. Seems more likely. :noid
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This thread
(http://scifun.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/1267552136847.jpg).
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Before you start hyperventilating, 1) the EMP effect radius is not that large, 2) Iran has no platform capable of reaching the United States and 3) it would be 100% sheer suicide for Iran to do that.
LOL, the feds commissioned a report on just this problem and the report reveals that a detonation has a very wide ranging reach and presents a very serious problem for a very unprepared United States.
The range problem is easily overcome when the amplifying affects of the existing above ground power grid is taken into account allowing the pulse and subsequent damage to be spread far beyond line of sight.
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LOL, the feds commissioned a report on just this problem and the report reveals that a detonation has a very wide ranging reach and presents a very serious problem for a very unprepared United States.
The range problem is easily overcome when the amplifying affects of the existing above ground power grid is taken into account allowing the pulse and subsequent damage to be spread far beyond line of sight.
Thats what we were talking about. Iran doesn't have the ability to fire one from a home base, HOWEVER they have been sending thier navy into the Gulf of Mexico which means they could if they launched from a ship.
Our military doesn't have the shielding it did during the Cold War and we would have to rely on our forces over seas to retaliate.
Another thing is it wouldn't kill alot of people but think about how many people would starve when food runs out and the rioting and looting that would take place. Pretty much what Iran would want to happen to us.
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They would also have to take out most of Europe and parts of Asia. Everyone of our Allies would have to be hit as well. I think a few task groups and marines would kick bellybutton though if they had to.
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Look at the map in the link I provided. In order to produce an EMP large enough to effect the Midwest, the Height Of Blast would have to be 100km
In order to effect the continental U.S. as a whole,the Height Of Blast would have to be 500km.
They won't be reaching those heights from a ship or on an airplane.
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What was so scary about Sputnik...
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/world/middleeast/16iran.html?_r=1
If the Iranians can launch a satellite into space...
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Before you start hyperventilating, 1) the EMP effect radius is not that large, 2) Iran has no platform capable of reaching the United States and 3) it would be 100% sheer suicide for Iran to do that.
True, the US would shoot them down long before they crossed the border
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They would also have to take out most of Europe and parts of Asia. Everyone of our Allies would have to be hit as well. I think a few task groups and marines would kick bellybutton though if they had to.
The Iranians wouldn't care as long as they could seriously hurt the US. They want to start Armagedon.
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I've thought of everything. I'm covered for EMP. My house and head looks more impressive than my car.
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj41/cooked2008/covered.jpg)
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Look at the map in the link I provided. In order to produce an EMP large enough to effect the Midwest, the Height Of Blast would have to be 100km
In order to effect the continental U.S. as a whole,the Height Of Blast would have to be 500km.
They won't be reaching those heights from a ship or on an airplane.
They wouldn't have to get the whole country. Just getting the Eastern seaboard would be enough to seriously hurt us.
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They wouldn't have to get the whole country. Just getting the Eastern seaboard would be enough to seriously hurt us.
Or maybe it would be the best thing that's happened to this country in the last 50 years.
You know, thinning of the herd and all that...
Pure speculation, of course.
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I think someone's been playing a bit too much MW3.
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The more realistic scenario is Mossad sneaking a small, dirty nuc into Iran and detonating it at a remote region. Very few are killed, small so radioactivity has very limited impact. The international community comes unglued and complete demand that Iran be subject to outside inspection and removal of weapons. Obviously Iran is too risky to be trusted with weapons, they cannot even manufacture them in safe mode. Even Russis and China would have to concede. They would be disarmed with near 100% agreement. No actual shooting war takes place.
At least this is how I would do it.
Boo
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All iran would need is one cargo ship a hundred miles off our east coast,firing a missile with a small nuke on it, that's all.
And the entire world would change over night.
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(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/Jayhawk1/2011-12-1416-26-03438.jpg)
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(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/Jayhawk1/2011-12-1416-26-03438.jpg)
Where's the toilet paper?
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(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/Jayhawk1/2011-12-1416-26-03438.jpg)
needs tactical bacon
http://www.thinkgeek.com/caffeine/wacky-edibles/c399/?cpg=ogpla&source=google_pla&gclid=CN3y-8CJhq4CFWm-tgodJHIP3A
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I doubt Iran would go out quietly. The international community did the same thing to Iraq, give up your weapons and we won't go after you, how did that work out?
Worked quite well in 1981...
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Where's the toilet paper?
Right on top of the "First Strike" bars, silver package labled "TP."
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I think someone's been playing a bit too much MW3.
Ummm 911 woke up alot of people to just how far radicals will go.
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(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv23/Jayhawk1/2011-12-1416-26-03438.jpg)
what the hell that kit is missing a puter to play aces high and a stack of pron for when you arent playing.
smep
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Ummm 911 woke up alot of people to just how far radicals will go.
It did, but it didn't wake people up to realizing who the radicals are.
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Where's the toilet paper?
Real men use sandpaper.
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It did, but it didn't wake people up to realizing who the radicals are.
Do us all a favor and leave your political views out.
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The Iranians wouldn't care as long as they could seriously hurt the US. They want to start Armagedon.
They are following the exact script their Pals in NK used to buy time to develope their nuke. Almost line for line. All thats missing is Jimmy Carter and his Bible.
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Where's the toilet paper?
Don't you know hardcore survivalists use the knives pictured to scrape off the turd goop?
(http://www.poopreport.com/Images/3shells.jpg) same concept :devil
As for the OP ... an EMP blast would fry all consumer electronics but it would not knock out the power grid as so many fear. Power companies shield their primary installations from big EMP explosions because their equipment tends to explode and generate large EMP blasts. Granted, its not the same as a nuke EMP but distance wise the EMP from a transformer blowing up ten feet away is about the same as a nuke going off 50km away.
Your ipod, cellphone, car electronics, etc however will be fried but its not going to wreck the life of the avg person. The only problems would come from banking systems and computer data lost (but then again, its why companies back their data in bunkers to begin with..those things are EMP shielded). Heck if anything and EMP blast would boost the economy from the sheer number of sales it would generate post-blast :P
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As for the OP ... an EMP blast would fry all consumer electronics but it would not knock out the power grid as so many fear. Power companies shield their primary installations from big EMP explosions because their equipment tends to explode and generate large EMP blasts. Granted, its not the same as a nuke EMP but distance wise the EMP from a transformer blowing up ten feet away is about the same as a nuke going off 50km away.
Your ipod, cellphone, car electronics, etc however will be fried but its not going to wreck the life of the avg person. The only problems would come from banking systems and computer data lost (but then again, its why companies back their data in bunkers to begin with..those things are EMP shielded). Heck if anything and EMP blast would boost the economy from the sheer number of sales it would generate post-blast :P
According to the Federal report, an EMP blast would most definitely have a very defastating affect on power companies. By many estimates, it would be months to restore any form of power to affected areas. They are simply not capable of withstanding the pulse from a nuke generated EMP attack. Further, such an attack would destroy food distribution capability while ensuring that the affected areas would suffer from mass rioting and starvation. Hardly a "boost for the economy".
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As for the OP ... an EMP blast would fry all consumer electronics but it would not knock out the power grid as so many fear. Power companies shield their primary installations from big EMP explosions because their equipment tends to explode and generate large EMP blasts. Granted, its not the same as a nuke EMP but distance wise the EMP from a transformer blowing up ten feet away is about the same as a nuke going off 50km away.
Your ipod, cellphone, car electronics, etc however will be fried but its not going to wreck the life of the avg person. The only problems would come from banking systems and computer data lost (but then again, its why companies back their data in bunkers to begin with..those things are EMP shielded). Heck if anything and EMP blast would boost the economy from the sheer number of sales it would generate post-blast :P
How would those sales go through? Most people don't carry a lot of cash anymore and rely primarily on debit/credit card purchases. How would all these products for sales be distributed? If a lot of the trucks are dead, who will deliver the food? I'm by no means a doomsdayer, but I don't think it would be as nonchalant as you're proposing.
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Look at the map in the link I provided. In order to produce an EMP large enough to effect the Midwest, the Height Of Blast would have to be 100km
In order to effect the continental U.S. as a whole,the Height Of Blast would have to be 500km.
They won't be reaching those heights from a ship or on an airplane.
The Shahab-3 series of missiles are road mobile and capable of being fired from a ship with modifications of the launcher system, ie. mounting on a ship. http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/39332.pdf
Might want to check your facts before denying capabilities.
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Or maybe it would be the best thing that's happened to this country in the last 50 years.
You know, thinning of the herd and all that...
Pure speculation, of course.
This is without a doubt one of the more ignorant statements I have heard from this board in years....
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what the hell that kit is missing a puter to play aces high and a stack of pron for when you arent playing.
smep
in a thread about EMPs? :headscratch: :neener: :bolt:
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in a thread about EMPs? :headscratch: :neener: :bolt:
Back in the olden days we had to turn pages on our porn. And, Aces High was played with pencil planes and some imagination (I know, kids don't have any imagination anymore :rolleyes: )
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Back in the olden days we had to turn pages on our porn. And, Aces High was played with pencil planes and some imagination (I know, kids don't have any imagination anymore :rolleyes: )
you have no idea how much imagination i have... :D :bolt:
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I'ma make a lead box for all my stuff :lol
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I'ma make a lead box for all my stuff :lol
ima eat small amounts of lead until im evolved passed getting poisoned, then I shall regurgitate lead onto my belongings, this way I won't need a box and everything is protected.
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ima eat small amounts of lead until im evolved passed getting poisoned, then I shall regurgitate lead onto my belongings, this way I won't need a box and everything is protected.
sorry to say this but even touching lead to the mouth poisons you :P rich romans used to drink out of lead cups and such and went insane later in life
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sorry to say this but even touching lead to the mouth poisons you :P rich romans used to drink out of lead cups and such and went insane later in life
quite! but I expected that. So I have been working my way up to the stronger poisons, first lots of glue inhalation and a steady diet of paint chips working my way up to the big dog.
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Should everything shutdown the first absolute need would be clean drinking water. Hopefully power companies are prepared to divert energy to water treatment plants. Rural areas may not be hit so bad becasue they depend more on well water, however, large city populations would experience some really bad times.
If the US did have a major EMP strike. A good portion of the world's economy would significantly slowdown as well. With Iran to blame not only would the US be igniting nukes over Iran, but everyone (other non-US nations) affected by the crashing economy would like a little payback as well.
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quite! but I expected that. So I have been working my way up to the stronger poisons, first lots of glue inhalation and a steady diet of paint chips working my way up to the big dog.
:rofl :rofl :rofl
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Should everything shutdown the first absolute need would be clean drinking water. Hopefully power companies are prepared to divert energy to water treatment plants. Rural areas may not be hit so bad becasue they depend more on well water, however, large city populations would experience some really bad times.
If the US did have a major EMP strike. A good portion of the world's economy would significantly slowdown as well. With Iran to blame not only would the US be igniting nukes over Iran, but everyone (other non-US nations) affected by the crashing economy would like a little payback as well.
That's generally what keeps me from subscribing to too much hysteria and panic. Even when some foreign leaders seems crazy, they still realize that it probably isn't in their best interest to start a direct war with the United States. However, I'm sure there will be more satellite wars in the near future.
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I'd be more worried about a solar eruption causing a mass outage than an EMP.
That's basically the waste of a nuke, especially if you only have a couple. You'd get more damage out of nuking a power plant if you're a 3rd rate nuclear power. The US would have the capability of EMPing an entire area, but that'd be a damn lot of fallout in the air...
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I didn't read the article on the first page so I don't know if it answered this.... but what cities would they want to hit first? NYC? D.C? large industrial cities third? IF the Iranians can do it..... they would only need 5 0or 6 small EMP's to do a world of catastrophe to us.......
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If that happened, the Government would have to finally let everyone know about free wireless energy via Tesla Tech they've been hiding for the last 80 years. :noid
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That's generally what keeps me from subscribing to too much hysteria and panic. Even when some foreign leaders seems crazy, they still realize that it probably isn't in their best interest to start a direct war with the United States. However, I'm sure there will be more satellite wars in the near future.
Wouldn't be as much to worry about with Russia and China, but this is Iran we are talking about. Ahmadinejad believes that it will bring about the prophecies of the koran if he starts Armageddon. Knocking out the power on the east coast with a single EMP burst would be enough to start it.
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Wouldn't be as much to worry about with Russia and China, but this is Iran we are talking about. Ahmadinejad believes that it will bring about the prophecies of the koran if he starts Armageddon. Knocking out the power on the east coast with a single EMP burst would be enough to start it.
I might disagree with that assertion, but then we are treading a political and religious line that shouldn't be crossed here. :salute
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Yeah, I don't quite understand all the fear of Iran.
We stood up to the soviets for crying out loud.
Just a bunch of propaganda if you ask me.
Bout time we start minding our own. :aok
:noid
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Remember though, all of our aircraft carriers have the capability to plug into a power grid. So if the actual grid isn't overly damaged we'll be able to keep vital systems running in the bigger cities. And if a strike does hit the continental U.S. Then it won't be hitting the carriers, and I doubt our ICBM's aren't shielded against nuclear/emp attack. Not to mention our attack subs. I doubt even the Russians could knock those out.
If Iran were to hit us with an EMP, I'm pretty sure our countermeasures + the Israeli's (who're probably just looking for an excuse to glass Iran) would turn Iran into a glowing wasteland. Nullifying any follow-up threat and the rest of the emergency would be repairing the power grid and getting everything back online.
Which wouldn't take long, because it would knock out the Internet. And so you'd have all the Internet crazies going absolutely crazy trying to fix it. :D
There might be some panic and hysteria, but I'll bet that most Americans, once they realize what happened, would pull together through the emergency.
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There might be some panic and hysteria, but I'll bet that most Americans, once they realize what happened, would pull together through the emergency.
I think there are two possible problems here, there will be plenty of people who will have no idea what happened, possibly not for weeks.
Second, although I agree people would probably pull together by creating small communities, I think we run into problems once the available food and water supply starts running low.
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Second, although I agree people would probably pull together by creating small communities, I think we run into problems once the available food and water supply starts running low.
Just remember, we eat the fat poepl first! :noid
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Second, although I agree people would probably pull together by creating small communities, I think we run into problems once the available food and water supply starts running low.
I think this is where all the fat people come into play. They say 1/3 of the population is fat. I'm sure that number is higher in places like Texas and and Oklahoma :). That's about one hundred million people we don't need to feed for at least a few weeks. Americans are getting prepared and don't even know it.
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I'm more concerned about them blownig up a LNG Carrier @ one of our ports, or some other type of non-nuclear / non-EMP weapon. Either would be horrible but I don't believe we have any reason to believe any state in the world is actually stupid enough to attack the U.S.
Although it is nearly impossible to change an enemy into a long term friend by force, we've done it before. And there should be no doubt that we have the capability to obliterate nearly any country's military and leadership pretty quickly.
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LOL, the feds commissioned a report on just this problem and the report reveals that a detonation has a very wide ranging reach and presents a very serious problem for a very unprepared United States.
The range problem is easily overcome when the amplifying affects of the existing above ground power grid is taken into account allowing the pulse and subsequent damage to be spread far beyond line of sight.
And thus your statement begs; what would amplify an EMP surge that got introduced to "the grid" (via any means) all the way from one coast to the other? :D
According to the Federal report, an EMP blast would most definitely have a very defastating affect on power companies. By many estimates, it would be months to restore any form of power to affected areas. They are simply not capable of withstanding the pulse from a nuke generated EMP attack. Further, such an attack would destroy food distribution capability while ensuring that the affected areas would suffer from mass rioting and starvation. Hardly a "boost for the economy".
Wouldn't be the first time you've wholeheartedly trusted the government, right?
How would an EMP attack destroy food distribution? The computers in vehicles/tractors? Hey guys, did we know about THE ENTIRE distribution and warehouse industry being reequipped and completely modernized in the last 20-30 years? Sh!@, I better get out to the Strawberry fields and packing houses I was driving through this Saturday and assure that those thousands of laborers are going to be rendered useless and incapable...
Mass rioting? Well sure, idiots are everywhere and don't need to be given much of an opportunity to be one. Anyone who's lived through a natural disaster where power was cut for days will tell you looting and rioting began the minute after the lights went off and that none of the looters waited until they got hungry.
Starvation? 7-days without any food and no US region will turn into warlord-run Somalia 2.0, it'll take at least months for things to degrade down to that level.
You know, I wonder who was cooperating with that big goverment-spending-inducing report and investigation... wouldn't/couldn't of been a bunch of large and powerful utility or food company/distributor/union's lobbyists and companies?...
As has been said, electric companies have been dealing with EMPs for a long time and in many different forms. Still don't believe me? I hope lightning strikes and opens up your mind.
*hint* *hint* *nudge* *nudge*
Now tell your nutty friend to pay attention to the professor during science class.
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Before you start hyperventilating, 1) the EMP effect radius is not that large, 2) Iran has no platform capable of reaching the United States and 3) it would be 100% sheer suicide for Iran to do that.
I beg to differ..... they could use UPS. :neener:
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The range problem is easily overcome when the amplifying affects of the existing above ground power grid is taken into account allowing the pulse and subsequent damage to be spread far beyond line of sight.
Y'know... after looking up the famous power cascade failures, I can't help but think an EMP would be a very similar disaster. So I can only wonder why we don't have emergency dump circuits set up that run with little to no current on them. When a surge is detected that can't be switched to other lines they dump it onto the emergency circuit which eats up the surge and dumps it into a ground or capacitors. It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to engineer or even very expensive to build and maintain.
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The Soviets had a large-yield nuclear EMP device that if detonated in space above Kansas would pretty much destroy all electrical infrastructure in continental US. A US Army study in 1994 concluded that even a small nuclear device detonated high above the atmosphere would greatly affect the entire continent. 25,000 volt/meter is enough to burn out all but the most shielded electronics, would fuse all power lines and would set all power plants on fire.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/EMP_mechanism.GIF/508px-EMP_mechanism.GIF)
Colored version of illustrations from the 1994 U.S. Army report ADA278230, "Nuclear Environment Survivability". The mechanism is for a 400 km high altitude burst EMP: gamma rays hit the atmosphere between 20-40 km altitude, ejecting electrons which are then deflected sideways by the earth's magnetic field. This makes the electrons radiate EMP over a massive area. Because of the curvature of earth's magnetic field over the USA, the maximum EMP occurs south of the detonation and the minimum occurs to the north.
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Remember though, all of our aircraft carriers have the capability to plug into a power grid. So if the actual grid isn't overly damaged we'll be able to keep vital systems running in the bigger cities. And if a strike does hit the continental U.S. Then it won't be hitting the carriers, and I doubt our ICBM's aren't shielded against nuclear/emp attack. Not to mention our attack subs. I doubt even the Russians could knock those out.
If Iran were to hit us with an EMP, I'm pretty sure our countermeasures + the Israeli's (who're probably just looking for an excuse to glass Iran) would turn Iran into a glowing wasteland. Nullifying any follow-up threat and the rest of the emergency would be repairing the power grid and getting everything back online.
Which wouldn't take long, because it would knock out the Internet. And so you'd have all the Internet crazies going absolutely crazy trying to fix it. :D
There might be some panic and hysteria, but I'll bet that most Americans, once they realize what happened, would pull together through the emergency.
To quote Dr. Strangelove: "It's not like we won't get our hair mussed, but 10... 20 million casualties, tops."
Nuclear warfare poses an existential risk to humanity; there's not much left after you unleash the fundamental forces of the universe on a city.
-Penguin
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(http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2006/ShahNuclearPlants.jpg)
Funny how things can change ;)
Since the 1979 Iranian revolution and the downfall of the US Puppet Ruler the Shah, Iran has been an Islamic state. In that interval of time, 1979 to the present, Iran has not invaded anyone. Not once. People of all religions live in peace in Iran, even Jews, who find life so comfortable in Iran they refused an offer by the government of Israel to emigrate!
In the same period of time, Israel, a self-declared Jewish state, attacked Iraq in 1981, bombing the power station at Osirik, claiming it was a clandestine weapons factory. Subsequent examination of the ruins following the 2003 invasion proved Israel had lied. In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon. This led to the Massacres at Sabra and Shatilla. In February 2003 Israel staged incursions into Gaza and Nablus. In September 2007 Israel bombed Syria, again insisting they were destroying a clandestine weapons laboratory. Again there was no evidence to support Israel's claims. In 2006, Israel attacked Lebanon, killing 1200, mostly civilians, several UN observers, and littering the landscape with land mines on their way out. In February 2008 Israel again raided Gaza, killing over 100. HAMAS agreed to a cease fire and kept it for 6 months until November 4, when Israel again attacked without warning, killing 6 HAMAS members, and launching operation CAST LEAD. 1300 Gazans, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel lost 13 soldiers. Violations of international law included the use of White Phosphorus incendiary bombs against civilians and non-military targets. The United Nations investigated, but Israel refused to cooperate. In May 2010, Israel attacked an international aid flotilla bringing food and medical supplies to Gaza in international waters. 9 people were murdered including an American from New York.
In the same period of time, the United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.
So, who is the danger to world peace?
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So, who is the danger to world peace?
This is just because Iran is a backward country with no economy or military ability to keep an occupied territory. They got a beating from the Iraqis, who were a pushover for the western powers. This does not mean they are not a danger. They fight proxy wars through various organizations through out the world, in particular in Iraq and Lebanon. Iran is the only country in the world openly calling for the destruction of another (Israel). Currently, they simply do not have the means. Ask the Saudis and the Emirs in the Gulf who is the greater danger to them, Israel or Iran.
I will not comment on the revised and biased history of the Israel-related middle east conflicts you gave above, nor on the pointless list of countries and years supposedly related to US "attacks".
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(http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2006/ShahNuclearPlants.jpg)
Funny how things can change ;)
Since the 1979 Iranian revolution and the downfall of the US Puppet Ruler the Shah, Iran has been an Islamic state. In that interval of time, 1979 to the present, Iran has not invaded anyone. Not once. People of all religions live in peace in Iran, even Jews, who find life so comfortable in Iran they refused an offer by the government of Israel to emigrate!
In the same period of time, Israel, a self-declared Jewish state, attacked Iraq in 1981, bombing the power station at Osirik, claiming it was a clandestine weapons factory. Subsequent examination of the ruins following the 2003 invasion proved Israel had lied. In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon. This led to the Massacres at Sabra and Shatilla. In February 2003 Israel staged incursions into Gaza and Nablus. In September 2007 Israel bombed Syria, again insisting they were destroying a clandestine weapons laboratory. Again there was no evidence to support Israel's claims. In 2006, Israel attacked Lebanon, killing 1200, mostly civilians, several UN observers, and littering the landscape with land mines on their way out. In February 2008 Israel again raided Gaza, killing over 100. HAMAS agreed to a cease fire and kept it for 6 months until November 4, when Israel again attacked without warning, killing 6 HAMAS members, and launching operation CAST LEAD. 1300 Gazans, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel lost 13 soldiers. Violations of international law included the use of White Phosphorus incendiary bombs against civilians and non-military targets. The United Nations investigated, but Israel refused to cooperate. In May 2010, Israel attacked an international aid flotilla bringing food and medical supplies to Gaza in international waters. 9 people were murdered including an American from New York.
In the same period of time, the United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.
So, who is the danger to world peace?
You should do some reading... serious reading. Your idea of how iran is on the inside is terribly inaccurate.
Your list there is a good start on who were a danger to world peace at one time.
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In the same period of time, the United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d'Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.
So, who is the danger to world peace?
im sorry but i would love information on every single one of those "attacks" you have listed. especially Haiti, the first Gulf War, Panama, and hmm... i didnt know a military presence was ever put into georgia,Djibouti, Kenya, Ethiopia, Yemen, and Eritrea. Last time i checked those countries were never "attacked" by america. Macedonia's a country? since when? i always thought that was part of greece! also read up on iraq. i didnt know our military was still there :lol also afghanistan in 2001 was fully justifiable so by all means excuse that one from this discussion and save it for another time. you can blame a certain exadministration for the problems there (until present) also and the second invasion of iraq which was unnecessary. WMDs my bellybutton in Iraq :lol our government wanted the $3,000,000,000,000 in oil that iraq owned.
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Wow, the FOX CNN brainwashing actually works. Good to know that Operation COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were such successes.
I am sure you can also tell me where Saddams WMDs are.
And of course once again the destroy Israel card gets waved. Since you clearly don't speak neither Arabic nor Persian it is not suprising that you actually believe the wrong translation.
The Iranian President called for the end of the Israel regime aka its government who practices genozide daily, supports apartheid and severly limits womens right. I am not even gonna talk about the 400 thermonuclear warheads that Israel posesses and is willing to use in its "Samson" option.
I am gonna stop now and leave you in your fantasy world where the red white and blue can do no wrong.
"If the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McLendon in June 1992.
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"If the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McLendon in June 1992.
:aok
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Wow, the FOX CNN brainwashing actually works. Good to know that Operation COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were such successes.
I am sure you can also tell me where Saddams WMDs are.
And of course once again the destroy Israel card gets waved. Since you clearly don't speak neither Arabic nor Persian it is not suprising that you actually believe the wrong translation.
The Iranian President called for the end of the Israel regime aka its government who practices genozide daily, supports apartheid and severly limits womens right. I am not even gonna talk about the 400 thermonuclear warheads that Israel posesses and is willing to use in its "Samson" option.
I am gonna stop now and leave you in your fantasy world where the red white and blue can do no wrong.
"If the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McLendon in June 1992.
oh i know our news agencies cant be trusted. ive known for a long time i only watch BBC world news for my info actually. i dont trust Israel just as much as you. i know all of this. but please tell me i just said that the WMDs that Hussein had was false and that we went into Iraq for the oil. and like i said i would love to see the information on the attacks you have listed. and when was Macedonia not part of Greece?
yet again i will stand by the fact that Afghanistan was necessary but it could have been over in 02 when we knew where Bin Laden was and our government chose not to kill him.
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"If the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McLendon in June 1992.
Yes because if you want to keep a secret you tell a reporter. :rofl
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and when was Macedonia not part of Greece?
There is Macedonia (northern part of Greece) and then there is this (zoom out a couple of times) http://maps.google.com/maps?q=macedonia&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x1354159f70bc4809:0xe0f25ad6c81fc5b1,Macedonia+%28FYROM%29&gl=us&ei=o0wxT83jDYnHsQLw86mIBw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=6&ved=0CGIQ8gEwBQ
created after the break up of Yugoslavia.
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(http://Since the 1979 Iranian revolution and the downfall of the US Puppet Ruler the Shah, Iran has been an Islamic state. In that interval of time, 1979 to the present, Iran has not invaded anyone. Not once. People of all religions live in peace in Iran, even Jews, who find life so comfortable in Iran they refused an offer by the government of Israel to emigrate!)
Yeah except for funding all kinds of terror networks, developing WMDs with other Dictatorships, publically calling for the destruction of America and Israel, they are perfect world citizens. I was close by in Nov. '79 when they over-ran a foreign embassy, "a new Low even for fanatics", but here was my first encounter with iranian fundementalism. Perjaps you oldster remember this picture taken during the Shah of Irans visit to Jimmy carter in Nov. '77.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/Misc/shahcarter.jpg)
Well the mother of a friend of mine was big in Pro-Shah groups, being Iranian, so she got a bunch of us free air/hotel tickets to DC for the weekend to drink and 'ho around. All we had to do was show up to this Pro-Shah demenstration in front of the WhiteHouse when he and Jimmy made their appearance. So about 10 of us American whiteboys took off for a weekend of booze and 'hoing in their Nations capitol.
We showed up to the rally, I was on crutches from a sprained ankle at the time, and we sat in bleachers across from the WH with a big peaceful crowd chanting "Long Live Shah" and trying to hit on the I-ranian girls. It was a big crowd, 3 to 5 grand with a lot of women and children. All of a sudden we heard a big scream and saw thousands of masked Lunatics running at us from the other end of the park carrying big sticks. They descended on all of us and just started beating people to within an inch of their life. Woman, kids, men, they didnt care. It was evil, I saw 3 or 4 of them surrounding little kids beating them bloody with sticks, woman too. I threw one crutch to my buddy and together we brained a bunch of these loons trying to save children from beatings. The Army had the WH surrounded but all they did for us was shoot tear gas into the entire crowd, including us.
What probably saved us was a hutch of DC mounted Park Police who rode in on horses, the horses so pissed off all the coppers could do was hang on while their animals bit and stomped the bad guys into bloody goo. We finally fought our way out of there, went back to the hotel, and got the frack out of DC the next morning.
This didnt happen in Iran. It happened within handgun distance of the WhiteHouse fence. The masked creeps doing the beating were all Iranian fundementalists in the US on student visas. Two years later, almost to the day, they over ran our embassy in Tehran. I was close by that one to, under arms at the closest Military base to Terhran.
I find very few pictures of the madness that happened that day on 15 Nov '77. Here is one, tho it doesnt do any justice to what actually happened. Needless to say I wouldnt trust these Iranians as far as i could throw them.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/Misc/AntiShahDemonstratorsVsProShah.jpg)
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Wow, the FOX CNN brainwashing actually works. Good to know that Operation COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were such successes.
I am sure you can also tell me where Saddams WMDs are.
And of course once again the destroy Israel card gets waved. Since you clearly don't speak neither Arabic nor Persian it is not suprising that you actually believe the wrong translation.
The Iranian President called for the end of the Israel regime aka its government who practices genozide daily, supports apartheid and severly limits womens right. I am not even gonna talk about the 400 thermonuclear warheads that Israel posesses and is willing to use in its "Samson" option.
I am gonna stop now and leave you in your fantasy world where the red white and blue can do no wrong.
"If the American people ever find out what we have done to them, they will chase us down the streets and lynch us." George H.W. Bush to reporter Sarah McLendon in June 1992.
:O calm down Vip all this mumbo jumbo is for nothing get ingame. :airplane: :salute :cheers:
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Ye bone, I just can't believe that people fall for the same lie again.
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Wow, the FOX CNN brainwashing actually works. Good to know that Operation COINTELPRO and Operation Mockingbird were such successes.
Wow, bloggers crap actually is being read and spread by some people. Your manifest was obviously not written by you. It appears in many many blogs, word for word. Here are some:
https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/why-do-we-hate-iran.88779/
http://sanityisdead.blogspot.com/2011_05_01_archive.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/dangertopeace.php
these are posted in blogs with no citation to the original, as if it was thought up by the blogger. This is just the same propaganda crap that you claim FOX CNN to be, only worse. Stop reading this crap and use the internet for what it was meant for - porn.
Shame on you.
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Viperius, are you Iranian?
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There is no doubt the USA is the one country (by far) that has been involved in the most wars since WWII, but there is a good reason for that... America is usually invited, implored or even begged to get involved by the UN, NATO or other parties. I'm pretty confident America will stop being the World Police when the World stops begging for it.
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@Bozon
I've never claimed to have written it. And many of these facts can be verified if you look into it. Just not US sources obviously.
A booktip for you: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. He gives you a detailed account on how the US Government systematically overthrows foreign governments for natural ressources and their methods.
@Puma
No. I am Swiss, but I've worked with several Iranians who live here, they are decent people as you and me. Their stories from back home are a bit different then what the western media tells us..
@All
I am not your enemy. I merely am telling you that your government is lieing to you in the same way they lied to you about Saddams WMD.
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There is no doubt the USA is the one country (by far) that has been involved in the most wars since WWII, but there is a good reason for that... America is usually invited, implored or even begged to get involved by the UN, NATO or other parties. I'm pretty confident America will stop being the World Police when the World stops begging for it.
I am trying to stay out of this crap thread but man, sometimes it is just too funny. So in your opinion the US is getting involved because the UN and NATO are begging the US to get involved? Who exactly do you think is in charge of those two organizations?
So the US will stop as soon as the US stops asking the US to get involved :lol :rofl :rofl
HT deserved at list 50$ just for the BBS entertainment they provide us :old:
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@Bozon
I've never claimed to have written it. And many of these facts can be verified if you look into it. Just not US sources obviously.
A booktip for you: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. He gives you a detailed account on how the US Government systematically overthrows foreign governments for natural ressources and their methods.
@Puma
No. I am Swiss, but I've worked with several Iranians who live here, they are decent people as you and me. Their stories from back home are a bit different then what the western media tells us..
@All
I am not your enemy. I merely am telling you that your government is lieing to you in the same way they lied to you about Saddams WMD.
...... your own country is afraid to make a stand yet you want to try and redicule a country that will stand up and help other countries. how cute.........
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I am trying to stay out of this crap thread but man, sometimes it is just too funny. So in your opinion the US is getting involved because the UN and NATO are begging the US to get involved? Who exactly do you think is in charge of those two organizations?
So the US will stop as soon as the US stops asking the US to get involved :lol :rofl :rofl
HT deserved at list 50$ just for the BBS entertainment they provide us :old:
one thing dedalos. our media is warped by the government. it has been for a while. anybody who digs deep enough will see it. another thing. you are partially if not mostly correct here :aok :lol
then again. although alot starts for the $$$ by our government, alot also starts cuz of people like this:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/02/113452/osama-bin-laden-born-into-privilege.html
shuff, admit. the US isnt perfect :)
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shuff, admit. the US isnt perfect :)
It's not...... but it is a far cry better than anywhere else.
We have media...... we just don't have news outlets anymore. What passes for news today is really just entertainment sites. They want to entertain folks to get them coming in so they can market their advertising section for money.
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one thing dedalos. our media is warped by the government. it has been for a while. anybody who digs deep enough will see it.
But so is the media of every other country. Why take anyone's word?
No, the US is not perfect but have seen what some of the other countries have done in the past? Given a choice, I am sticking with the US.
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@Bozon
I've never claimed to have written it. And many of these facts can be verified if you look into it. Just not US sources obviously.
A booktip for you: Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins. He gives you a detailed account on how the US Government systematically overthrows foreign governments for natural ressources and their methods.
When you post some opinion, do not mark it with quotes and do not provide a source then you pretend it to be your words. That is dishonest.
Then, you go on about governments and media that are lying to us and in exchange you quote your own propaganda, a regurgitated article from unknown BLOGS as to what they lie to us about? You forgot to mention all the blogs that list the alien landing events that are denied by goverments. The list of US involvements say nothing except name of places and years. What does that tell us? that the US is involved with the world, unlike your own country which I will refrain from spreading my opinion on it. Don't read me wrong. I KNOW that part of that is pushing US interests, but still.
The list detailing Israeli related events is in part inaccurate and in others absurdly biased. It lists the events as random acts of violence that Israel make from time to time for absolutely no reason - the A,B,C of propaganda. I wrote a long reply here to these events, but then decided that it will fall on deaf ears anyway, so I deleted it. I only recommend that you rent a vacation house in one of the villages in south Israel close to the Gaza strip (20 km is enough). When you hear loudspeakers announcing "Tzeva adom" (red color) followed by a short siren - duck and brace for Gazan peace-rocket impact.
Don't spread crap that you read on the internet and pretend to know something about it.