Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: alpini13 on February 06, 2012, 03:12:04 PM
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I would like to see more variation in the plane sets on all sides. including the early allison equiped p-51a(same basic engine as p-38,p-39,p-40 of that time)
This is the early mustang used by the RAF up until 1943,armament packages vary between 303,4x20mm,and.50cal
depending on service dates this would be available in the early and midwar arenas.oh what fun!
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I'd like the a36.
One missed mouseclick in warbirds and you were flying the a36.......finally started liking it.
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Nevermind i'm out
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I would love to have 2 more variants of the 51, P-51A 20mm mustang and the A-36 for dive bombing.
(http://worldwartwozone.com/aussie-dave.gallery/P_51A_Allison_001.thumb.jpg)
:rock
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Curious to know how bad the 51A would get perked.
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Curious to know how bad the 51A would get perked.
I'd be surprised if it were.
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Imagine it's as slow as a P-40, and loses power at 15k, can't turn worth crap because it doesn't have the Merlin engine. Now imagine it never gets 4x20mm, because most of those 150 or so were rare and not used as fighters. The typical P-51 had 2x 50cal in the lower nose and 2 in each wing -- for 6x50cal if I recall.
Most folks only ask for this because they want quad hizookas. Fly a hurricane. Fly a c-hog. They'll do better in the MA than this would. I'd like it for the early allison-powered Mustang (which to me is cool) but not for the guns setup.
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I don't see why it would be ..mid/late 43 plane?
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Imagine it's as slow as a P-40, and loses power at 15k, can't turn worth crap because it doesn't have the Merlin engine. Now imagine it never gets 4x20mm, because most of those 150 or so were rare and not used as fighters. The typical P-51 had 2x 50cal in the lower nose and 2 in each wing -- for 6x50cal if I recall.
Most folks only ask for this because they want quad hizookas. Fly a hurricane. Fly a c-hog. They'll do better in the MA than this would. I'd like it for the early allison-powered Mustang (which to me is cool) but not for the guns setup.
Nope I asked for it because it was used for hundreds of missions and it was know as the F6B.
we have how many P-47's?
Edit: the F stood for Fighter
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You need to check your facts mate.
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You need to check your facts mate.
No you need to check yours... look up the 111th Tactical Recon Squad and the 154th trs in Africa and Italy.
Mate,
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"Snoopers"
(http://www.swissmustangs.ch/mediac/400_0/media/92_1_b.jpg)
(http://www.swissmustangs.ch/mediac/400_0/media/Dean~Gilmore_c.jpg)
Dean Gilmore
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/111thTRSF-6A008.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/111thTRSF-6A005.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/111thTRSF-6A002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/111thTRSF-6A004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/154thTRS002.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/cobrahistorian/new%20album/111thTRSF-6A001.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P5120mm.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mm2.jpg)
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Didn't the British originaly contract for 200 of the A36 as the Mustang MkIA with 4 long barreled hispano which they used up to almost the end of the war as low level recon and general straffing and bombing duties? But, the AAF kept back a few designated as the F6B.
The MKIA would have an intersting localised destabalising ability used in an NOE hoard of about 20 planes along with 10 or so other types. Kind of like 20 CHog's showing up to help take a feild. The numbers with 4 - 20mm would be destabalising.
I think the OP can see as well as anyone else in this game there would be more advantages to this plane than disadvanteges.
The way we play this game, the more cannons you have, the more you can dictate the fight to all but the realy accomplished players. So 80% of the player base would make very good use of this bird against each other.
There are three basic detractions used to wishes these days.
1.) No! You just want another cannon bird to make up for your skillz suckage.
2.) No! It's a waste of Hitech's time and resources to introduce the queen of all hanger queens. You must be slow witted to even mention a PoS plane like this.
3.) No! It's totaly unnecessary becasue we have a gazzillion other birds we have to force Hitech to create for obscure scenarios and just because. All Hail My Superior Personal Knowlege in knowing better than you whats good for the game.
No one has ever accused these detractors of being honest.
A.) No! I have been paying my $14.95 for ever to HTC and I am entitaled to what I beleive is best for this game becasue I've been here longer than you and have every book in my basement about WW2 aircraft on this planet.
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No you need to check yours... look up the 111th Tactical Recon Squad and the 154th trs in Africa and Italy.
Mate,
No, you really really need to check your facts. First, the F6 model armed with cannon was used as recon -- rarely even ground attack. It was loaded with a large camera behind the pilot's head pointing out sideways. This model did see recon service same as many other recon models -- F5 among them. However it was not a fighter unit nor was it a main combat unit. Did they go into harm's way? Yes... But they weren't in it to fight. They were gathering intel above all else.
Second, F was NOT to indicate fighter. Please do a little checking. P = Pursuit = Fighter. F was the code designation for recon craft. Which is why the P-51 was a fighter but the F6 was not. The P-38 was a fighter but the F5 was not.
Savvy?
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(http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/oh%20snap/grand/49320829-oh_snap_gif.gif)
:bhead
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No, you really really need to check your facts. First, the F6 model armed with cannon was used as recon -- rarely even ground attack. It was loaded with a large camera behind the pilot's head pointing out sideways. This model did see recon service same as many other recon models -- F5 among them. However it was not a fighter unit nor was it a main combat unit. Did they go into harm's way? Yes... But they weren't in it to fight. They were gathering intel above all else.
Second, F was NOT to indicate fighter. Please do a little checking. P = Pursuit = Fighter. F was the code designation for recon craft. Which is why the P-51 was a fighter but the F6 was not. The P-38 was a fighter but the F5 was not.
Savvy?
Read up on it
Savvy?
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Of. The Allison birds the 4 cannon version would be last on the list. A36 would be first with the mg RAF bird or the USAAF 4 50 cal and dt/bomb capable version second.
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Didn't the British originaly contract for 200 of the A36 as the Mustang MkIA with 4 long barreled hispano which they used up to almost the end of the war as low level recon and general straffing and bombing duties? But, the AAF kept back a few designated as the F6B.
The Brits originally contracted for them but the US took posession of them -- so it was the US that used them not the RAF. RAF had non-cannon-armed Allison-powered mustangs, though. They were not bombers, and weren't used heavily as strafers either. They were slow and underpowered and phased out with faster planes that could get in, do the recon, and get out without being so vulnerable. Spits and so forth replaced it in its duties.
It didn't have a galmorous career. It wasn't a major factor or part of the war.
You neglect one thing, in your desparaging comments, bustr. Usually #1 is the bald-faced truth of the matter. Most wish requests are so ignorant or selfish that they really, truly, only want more cannons on planes that don't really need them. Often requesting a plane with big guns but not understanding (through ignorance) the plane wouldn't give them what they want because of flaws in its performance.
P.S. Megalodon, I just explained to you how and why you are wrong. Please read more before spreading inaccuracies.
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Facts Krusty, till now I've never seen a good pic of this plane except for the 1 in my 1st post.
All the sudden I found quite a few . So I have been researching it for 2 days.
Not only did they have 20mm's they had eggs on there A36's and as I stated they did 100's of missions in support of ground troops as well as recon for the tanks and infantry fire.
Dean Gilmore has an air kill and the "Snoopers" were in squadron form.
I would like both of these versions in the game.
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The RAF Allison birds were flown until the end of the war in the Army Co-op role much the same as the Allison Mustang did for the USAAF in the Tac Recon role. You could find them with Malcom hoods mixed in with Merlin F6 Mustangs. And of course the 1st Air Commandos used the Allison Mustang.
That being said, and as this debate has happened many times here, I've come to believe the A36 would be the one to add first due to the niche it would fill both in special events and in the arenas.
While the cannon bird certainly saw action, in comparison to the other versions it was minor and let's be honest,within AH, 4 cannons have a bigger impact then they probably should.
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The RAF Allison birds were flown until the end of the war in the Army Co-op role much the same as the Allison Mustang did for the USAAF in the Tac Recon role. You could find them with Malcom hoods mixed in with Merlin F6 Mustangs. And of course the 1st Air Commandos used the Allison Mustang.
That being said, and as this debate has happened many times here, I've come to believe the A36 would be the one to add first due to the niche it would fill both in special events and in the arenas.
While the cannon bird certainly saw action, in comparison to the other versions it was minor and let's be honest,within AH, 4 cannons have a bigger impact then they probably should.
Usually the debate ends with Ack Ack making the same statements as Krusty.
100's of sorties.... how many sorties did the VLR make?
common numbers made? It falls in with about 5-6 planes in the game, I wont go through them.
Lets have it in the next plane vote and see Tiff :aok
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The A-36 is not the P-51. The A-36 never (repeat: NEVER) had cannons. Mega, you seem to be mixing up variants a bit - try to understand the differences in the planes and their roles. I have no doubt the A-36s carried bombs, but the cannon-armed ones were NOT A-36s.
Like Guppy said, the A-36 certainly would have a place, but the 4x20mm Mustang Mk I not so much.
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Facts Krusty, till now I've never seen a good pic of this plane except for the 1 in my 1st post.
All the sudden I found quite a few . So I have been researching it for 2 days.
Not only did they have 20mm's they had eggs on there A36's and as I stated they did 100's of missions in support of ground troops as well as recon for the tanks and infantry fire.
Dean Gilmore has an air kill and the "Snoopers" were in squadron form.
I would like gummy bears. please
k
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The A-36 is not the P-51. The A-36 never (repeat: NEVER) had cannons. Mega, you seem to be mixing up variants a bit - try to understand the differences in the planes and their roles. I have no doubt the A-36s carried bombs, but the cannon-armed ones were NOT A-36s.
Like Guppy said, the A-36 certainly would have a place, but the 4x20mm Mustang Mk I not so much.
I was talking about the "Snoopers" and I know the difference between the 2 Krusty
F6B
Thank You,
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I was talking about the "Gummy Bears" and I know Gummy Bears
Thank You,
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I'm not smart enough to post a response like my friend Prop
:aok
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:aok
:ahand
Hows about some facts I think you are confusing the 2, the 4Prop is not the same as the Nathan60, but I wont bother backing this up with references to where I find my facts
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I agree it is hard to refute... I feel sorry for them :)
:ahand
:cheers:
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you would probably be better at looking at these
http://www.candywarehouse.com/candy-type/gummy-and-jelly-candy/gummi-bears/
seeing as you wasted 2 days already, you could probably use some comfort food to help with all the sadness
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Will this work? There is a lot more.
"On 7 July 1943, the 111th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron began flying combat missions for the Seventh Army's invasion of Sicily with the P-51 Mustang aircraft. After Sicily the squadron supported the Fifth Army's invasion of Italy with reconnaissance and naval gunfire spotting. It pioneered spotting for the long range field artillery. In April 1944, the squadron replaced its old P-51s with new P-51Cs. In August 1944, the 111th squadron supported the Seventh Army's invasion of Southern France and followed that army into Northern France. The squadron was in Nuremberg, Germany when World War II ended, and was assigned to the Occupation Air Force.
In 23 months of combat flying, the 111th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron flew 7,284 combat sorties, supporting four invasions and participating in a fifth. Squadron pilots shot down 43 enemy aircraft while supporting the ground armies with reconnaissance and long range artillery spotting. The squadron received the Distinguished Unit Citation for combat in February 1945."
http://www.texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org/snoopers.htm (http://www.texasmilitaryforcesmuseum.org/snoopers.htm)
"In the months prior to WWII, the "Ace in the Hole" would move several times prior to shipping overseas. Those months were used to prepare for the war that everyone knew was coming and training was accomplished with several aircraft types: O-49s, O-52s, P-43s, A-20s, P-39s and P-40s. Basically anything available. Redesigned the 111th Reconnaissance Squadron (Fighter) and later the 111th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, the Texas National Guard unit would serve in North Africa, Italy and Southern France, flying A-20Bs, P-39Ls, A-36As, P-51As, P-51Bs (and Cs) and F-6s. During this service, the 111th was assigned to the 68th Tactical Reconnaissance Group, the 69th TRG and later the 10th TRG. With the end of WWII, the 111th TRS was inactivated."
OH and btw there stationed in Austin Texas
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What I am hearing from Megalodon:
"I want cannons on my P-51."
Now, that is a fine thing to wish for and while many of us will disagree with it it is your wish to ask.
So be honest and state your actual intentions. You aren't asking for this plane because you are passionate about its history. You're asking for it because it is a P-51 with cannons.
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What I am hearing from Megalodon:
So be honest and state your actual intentions. You aren't asking for this plane because you are passionate about its history. You're asking for it because it is a P-51 with cannons.
Nope I have liked it for a long time.
I bumped into the info accidental looking for the Bomb Guide stripes in another thread.
I love you guys that know how I think. :rolleyes:
And what would be wrong with a cannon armed P-51?
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, flying A-20Bs, P-39Ls, A-36As, P-51As, P-51Bs (and Cs) and F-6s. ."
bah we have enough of those planes already in I think the sqaudron is well represented by the 39's and pony b's stop squad stalking
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Fine, while having variation in the game is good, but why take away from HTC's time for a hanger queen
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Fine, while having variation in the game is good, but why take away from HTC's time for a hanger queen
a P51 with cannons? all the dweebs will be in it. probably why he wants it.
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"Snoopers"
Lt Gilmore Crashed during a training flight in Florida
Aircraft profile as done by Dan
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/72468.html (http://www.swissmustangs.ch/72468.html)
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a P51 with cannons? all the dweebs will be in it. probably why he wants it.
Yeah but it will be perked and all the c-hog dorks will fight the gunstang dweeps
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bah we have enough of those planes already in I think the sqaudron is well represented by the 39's and pony b's stop squad stalking
Well you could at least edit out the planes we don't have. Let me help.
flying P-51Bs and F-6s. ."
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I dont think it would be heard to beat. especially with who we already know is gonna be in it. you could have 20x20mms in each wing but if you cant get a fix on anyone to pull the trigger its worthless. so stick to a spit9 or whatever the dweebs fly these days.
its like wanting a 9mm pistol to kill someone a mile away...if you hit him, he will probably die. chances of hitting him-0/1000000
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Nope I have liked it for a long time.
I bumped into the info accidental looking for the Bomb Guide stripes in another thread.
I love you guys that know how I think. :rolleyes:
And what would be wrong with a cannon armed P-51?
You just happened to get fixated on a very rare version of the P-51 that had four cannons? Yeah right.
You were so fixated on it that you just now started finding good photos of it, per your own statement in this thread. You had to go search the web for data on its service, and even then what you posted doesn't identify the aircraft used for those sorties.
Basically, your posts in this thread all come across as somebody who wants the four cannon P-51 and is now trying to justify it rather than somebody who was interested in it, knew why it should be added and came here to post about it.
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Well you could at least edit out the planes we don't have. Let me help.
I guess that one was too fast for you, also by your very own post ealier in this therad the F-6 you refer to is the f-6B and not the f-6 we have in game.
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Lt Gilmore Crashed during a training flight in Florida
Aircraft profile as done by Dan
http://www.swissmustangs.ch/72468.html (http://www.swissmustangs.ch/72468.html)
Yes he did ...after his time with the 111th TRS while in a training position.
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Well you could at least edit out the planes we don't have. Let me help.
+ A20 and P39 (the L model only got a Curtis electric propeller and a different nose wheel to reduce drag) so lets make sure we know the P39 is in that list of what we already have
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I guess that one was too fast for you.
Can we talk about planes instead of drawling lines to see who can piss further?
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Yes he did ...after his time with the 111th TRS while in a training position.
Been to this Memorial i live about 45min away
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Can we talk about planes instead of drawling lines to see who can piss further?
Sure, why dont you start off?
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Usually the debate ends with Ack Ack making the same statements as Krusty.
100's of sorties.... how many sorties did the VLR make?
common numbers made? It falls in with about 5-6 planes in the game, I wont go through them.
Lets have it in the next plane vote and see Tiff :aok
I'm missing the connection between cannon armed 51As and the P51D-20s that flew the VLR missions? You are talking one squadron flying recce missions in early Mustangs vs 9 Squadrons flying bomber escorts to Japan. The Snoopers were more often then not flying in pairs, while the 15th FG, 21st FG and 506th FG were flying in Group strength +. I'd imagine if you totaled it up the VLR Mustangs would have flown a lot more sorties as they put up 100s every time they flew. What one has to do with the other I have no clue.
It makes little sense if you are adding an Allison Mustang to add the least produced and used variant. To me that means the cannons are the appeal as if the goal is an Allison Mustang then one of the more used versions would be a better representative.
In the overall scheme of things I think that there are other birds that should come first anyway not that I have any input on that at all.
But feel free to have a vote :aok
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You just happened to get fixated on a very rare version of the P-51 that had four cannons? Yeah right.
You were so fixated on it that you just now started finding good photos of it, per your own statement in this thread. You had to go search the web for data on its service, and even then what you posted doesn't identify the aircraft used for those sorties.
Basically, your posts in this thread all come across as somebody who wants the four cannon P-51 and is now trying to justify it rather than somebody who was interested in it, knew why it should be added and came here to post about it.
Hehehe you are something, post something relevant to the topic at hand Doc, you just being obnoxious.
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Been to this Memorial i live about 45min away
can we talk about aireplains as instead of geography?
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I'm missing the connection between cannon armed 51As and the P51D-20s that flew the VLR missions? You are talking one squadron flying recce missions in early Mustangs vs 9 Squadrons flying bomber escorts to Japan. The Snoopers were more often then not flying in pairs, while the 15th FG, 21st FG and 506th FG were flying in Group strength +. I'd imagine if you totaled it up the VLR Mustangs would have flown a lot more sorties as they put up 100s every time they flew. What one has to do with the other I have no clue.
It makes little sense if you are adding an Allison Mustang to add the least produced and used variant. To me that means the cannons are the appeal as if the goal is an Allison Mustang then one of the more used versions would be a better representative.
In the overall scheme of things I think that there are other birds that should come first anyway not that I have any input on that at all.
But feel free to have a vote :aok
I was just making a comparison of actually missions not planes :) Can you answer the question?
How many squads was that?
Good so I have your support on the vote?
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you've fully convinvced me to back you on the inclusion of a rare cannon totin' gunstang, the a36 can come along aswell.
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If HTC was to go down this path I would say we would get both variants based off the recent history of updates.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stofp51.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a36.jpg)
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If HTC was to go down this path I would say we would get both variants based off the recent history of updates.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/febc0bcfb2c18d4b7020449e1fa1320b.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/stofp51.jpg)
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/a36.jpg)
I have another really good shot of Betty Jean
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-5120mmBettyJean.jpg)
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I was just making a comparison of actually missions not planes :) Can you answer the question?
How many squads was that?
Good so I have your support on the vote?
VLR Mustangs flew 4,172 Effective sorties, destroying or damaging 1062 aircraft, 254 surface vessels, 134 locomotives, 355 rail cars, 246 buildings and hangers, 16 radio/radar stations, 10 oil tanks and 13 trucks.
Hows the 4 cannon 51A match up? :)
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An Allison powered P-51A would be a great addition.
Anything that was, in wartime, a rare version of something but that would be used to the exclusion of the common version in the game should not be added or should be perked if added. Things in this category are the cannon armed P-51, cannon armed A-20, cannon armed F4U and three cannon La-7.
If the machine gun armed Allison P-51A and cannon armed version were both added the machine gun armed version, despite being the much more significant version historically, would see almost no use compared to the cannon armed version. Thus it is self evident that people asking for the cannon armed version are really nothing other than power gamers looking for an edge.
That is my opinion on the subject.
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VLR Mustangs flew 4,172 Effective sorties, destroying or damaging 1062 aircraft, 254 surface vessels, 134 locomotives, 355 rail cars, 246 buildings and hangers, 16 radio/radar stations, 10 oil tanks and 13 trucks.
Hows the 4 cannon 51A match up? :)
How many squadrons was that? Your right I did say VLR. Take 1 squad how many missions? your just dancing around the answer as usuall :)
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How many squadrons was that? Your right I did say VLR. Take 1 squad how many missions? your just dancing around the answer as usuall :)
and how many of the missions this squad flew were in the mustang you are looking for?
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An Allison powered P-51A would be a great addition.
Anything that was, in wartime, a rare version of something but that would be used to the exclusion of the common version in the game should not be added or should be perked if added. Things in this category are the cannon armed P-51, cannon armed A-20, cannon armed F4U and three cannon La-7.
If the machine gun armed Allison P-51A and cannon armed version were both added the machine gun armed version, despite being the much more significant version historically, would see almost no use compared to the cannon armed version. Thus it is self evident that people asking for the cannon armed version are really nothing other than power gamers looking for an edge.
That is my opinion on the subject.
Well the early mustangs fit in my plane range. I do like to fly the older stuff and I agree on the 50cal version of the A as well. I would love to have all 3 versions. As it stands we have 5 versions of the 47 at least 2 didn't see a whole ton of action.
I'm not a power gamer :lol
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so how many perkies for the cannon totin mustang?
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How many squadrons was that? Your right I did say VLR. Take 1 squad how many missions? your just dancing around the answer as usuall :)
LOL not dancing, you are just changing the question as usual :)
What answer Fin? You compared the sorties of the cannon 51 to those of the VLR Mustangs. Now you want to bring it back to a single squadron? Did the cannon 51 have as much impact as a single VLR Mustang squadron? Nope, not even close
Why don't you compare it to the sorties of the other Allison Mustangs if you are so intent on proving it's worth? In the end, I don't decide what bird we get. If I did, the 4 cannon bird would be the last we'd get.
As I said, if we do get an Allision Mustang I would prefer any of the other more produced and used versions before the 4 20mm version as in AH the 4 cannon birds have a bigger impact then they should, and that's all folks are seeing. 4 20mm. Historically it's the least significant of the Allison Mustangs. There is no denying that. Can you name a single significantly remembered 4 cannon bird pilot? Three immediately come to mind when talking about the other Allison Mustangs. Hollis Hills, Phil Cochran and John England. Not a cannon Mustang between them.
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Karnak is spot-on with all of his comments, as is Guppy. Nobody wants the cannon-armed mustang because of its historical impact. It had none. They want it because they want something to mis-use in this game.
A-36: yes.
Mustang with cannons: nope.
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LOL not dancing, you are just changing the question as usual :)
What answer Fin? You compared the sorties of the cannon 51 to those of the VLR Mustangs. Now you want to bring it back to a single squadron? Did the cannon 51 have as much impact as a single VLR Mustang squadron? Nope, not even close
Why don't you compare it to the sorties of the other Allison Mustangs if you are so intent on proving it's worth? In the end, I don't decide what bird we get. If I did, the 4 cannon bird would be the last we'd get.
As I said, if we do get an Allision Mustang I would prefer any of the other more produced and used versions before the 4 20mm version as in AH the 4 cannon birds have a bigger impact then they should, and that's all folks are seeing. 4 20mm. Historically it's the least significant of the Allison Mustangs. There is no denying that. Can you name a single significantly remembered 4 cannon bird pilot? Three immediately come to mind when talking about the other Allison Mustangs. Hollis Hills, Phil Cochran and John England. Not a cannon Mustang between them.
well yes the 111th was a single squadron apples to apples not apples to oranges
As I said I would like all 3 versions.
not just the cannon plane but until NOW I haven't seen this many and it has always been tucked under the rug so to speak as you are trying to do now.
Krusty here's a couple for you.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombsandrockets.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombs-1.jpg)
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See Rule #4
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I want you to stop and consider how you've just seriously blundered megalodon. You really are reaching to justify wanting a mustang with cannons.
You sound like Doc Krusty and I hardly ever fly cannon birds cept for my 109G2 which I fight with gondolas :)
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See Rule #4
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I would say the shoe is on the other foot.
Or in the mouth
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Fine, while having variation in the game is good, but why take away from HTC's time for a hanger queen
The Mustang Ia wouldn't be a hanger queen, it would be a rather popular ride with some very good qualities at low altitudes but will get progressively worse as it goes higher. I think Widewing posted a few years back in another Mustang Ia discussion and showed it would be a rather deadly aircraft on the deck.
ack-ack
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See Rule #4
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The Mustang Ia wouldn't be a hanger queen, it would be a rather popular ride with some very good qualities at low altitudes but will get progressively worse as it goes higher. I think Widewing posted a few years back in another Mustang Ia discussion and showed it would be a rather deadly aircraft on the deck.
ack-ack
That is true, forgot most fights are on the deck, would ypou be opposed to adding it but as a perked ride?
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I can't dispute what you are saying so I will attack you personally
P.S. A-36s are in your last pictures. Not Mustangs.
Try to talk about the topic instead of you attacking me and your thoughts about me.
They are P-51A mustangs. I'll go buy what the author states. Please point me in the direction of your famous book and research you have done.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P51A1st.jpg)
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can we talk about aireplains as instead of geography?
Im at a loss was sharing site/history with Mega
You sir have done nothing but riddled the thread with flame baits.
Have a nice day bye bye Now
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An Allison powered P-51A would be a great addition.
Anything that was, in wartime, a rare version of something but that would be used to the exclusion of the common version in the game should not be added or should be perked if added. Things in this category are the cannon armed P-51, cannon armed A-20, cannon armed F4U and three cannon La-7.
If the machine gun armed Allison P-51A and cannon armed version were both added the machine gun armed version, despite being the much more significant version historically, would see almost no use compared to the cannon armed version. Thus it is self evident that people asking for the cannon armed version are really nothing other than power gamers looking for an edge.
That is my opinion on the subject.
why should a cannon A-20 be perked and a cannon mossi not be perked ? or a hurri 2 or a tiffy or a n1k1 the list goes on .............
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I say hell, let them have their 4 cannon ponies.
It's not like a pony pilot would stay around long enough in a fight to use them anyways. :lol
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why should a cannon A-20 be perked and a cannon mossi not be perked ? or a hurri 2 or a tiffy or a n1k1 the list goes on .............
Because if the cannon armed A-20G is added you will no longer see the historically common machine gun armed A-20G and instead only see the historically rare cannon armed version. With the Mosquito Mk VI, Hurricane Mk II and N1K2-J (We don't have an N1K1) there is no such issue as in the case of the Mosquito VI and N1K2-J every single one of them was armed identically and in the case of the Hurricane Mk II the most common was the cannon armed version.
Megalondon,
Everything you posted on Page 5 of this thread has been armed with .50 cals.
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Imagine it's as slow as a P-40, and loses power at 15k, can't turn worth crap because it doesn't have the Merlin engine. Now imagine it never gets 4x20mm, because most of those 150 or so were rare and not used as fighters. The typical P-51 had 2x 50cal in the lower nose and 2 in each wing -- for 6x50cal if I recall.
Most folks only ask for this because they want quad hizookas. Fly a hurricane. Fly a c-hog. They'll do better in the MA than this would. I'd like it for the early allison-powered Mustang (which to me is cool) but not for the guns setup.
The current Mustang loses power below that alt. Never notice?
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Because if the cannon armed A-20G is added you will no longer see the historically common machine gun armed A-20G and instead only see the historically rare cannon armed version. With the Mosquito Mk VI, Hurricane Mk II and N1K2-J (We don't have an N1K1) there is no such issue as in the case of the Mosquito VI and N1K2-J every single one of them was armed identically and in the case of the Hurricane Mk II the most common was the cannon armed version.
Megalondon,
Everything you posted on Page 5 of this thread has been armed with .50 cals.
Unfortunately our Ki84-Ostu falls in that category as well :cry
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Because if the cannon armed A-20G is added you will no longer see the historically common machine gun armed A-20G and instead only see the historically rare cannon armed version. With the Mosquito Mk VI, Hurricane Mk II and N1K2-J (We don't have an N1K1) there is no such issue as in the case of the Mosquito VI and N1K2-J every single one of them was armed identically and in the case of the Hurricane Mk II the most common was the cannon armed version.
Megalondon,
Everything you posted on Page 5 of this thread has been armed with .50 cals.
Yes that is true the topic of the thread is Early P-51 Mustang Variant The A mustang qualifies no?
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Because if the cannon armed A-20G is added you will no longer see the historically common machine gun armed A-20G and instead only see the historically rare cannon armed version.
If your crystal ball is so accurate why didnt you warn us all about the housing crisis?
I say "bull" anyway. Choices drive revenue and in these times we need more customers...er... "targets!" :D
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Yes that is true the topic of the thread is Early P-51 Mustang Variant The A mustang qualifies no?
Not really. Again you don't seem to understand the differences between the A-36 and the Mustang. They were radically different planes. They looked somewhat similar but that's it. The A-36 Apache was a dedicated ground attack platform, with dive brakes above and below both wings, reinforced wing structures to withstand dive bombing forces and bomb racks to carry payload.
In short, there was no "Mustang A" as you put it -- it wasn't until the Merlin engine was put in and the P-51B was born that the aircraft really took off. It went from the A-36 to the P-51B, for all intents and purposes.
If you want an early Mustang, A-36 is the thing. You've been going on about the quad hizzos most of this thread. See where the people replying to you are taking issue with that?
P.S. Challenge, and you call yourself a Mustang fan? That's a shameful misrepresentation. You know very well the mustang's FTH is much higher than that. You can't cite the first drop in power when you have 2 charger stages. Not when comparing to a plane with 1 charger stage. That's just dishonest to folks that don't know better,.
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Not really. Again you don't seem to understand the differences between the A-36 and the Mustang. They were radically different planes. They looked somewhat similar but that's it. The A-36 Apache was a dedicated ground attack platform, with dive brakes above and below both wings, reinforced wing structures to withstand dive bombing forces and bomb racks to carry payload.
In short, there was no "Mustang A" as you put it -- it wasn't until the Merlin engine was put in and the P-51B was born that the aircraft really took off. It went from the A-36 to the P-51B, for all intents and purposes.
If you want an early Mustang, A-36 is the thing. You've been going on about the quad hizzos most of this thread. See where the people replying to you are taking issue with that?
Please stop trying to explain to me what I know and don't know. The fact is your just plain wrong about that.
So don't push your overbearing view on me Krusty.
Take issue all you want that dose not mean it does not have a place in the game.
Like I said to Tiff
"lets have a plane vote on it"
well see where you and the few others that are responding stand? okay?
Lets take it to the community :)
To be clear:
A36
P51A's 50 and 20mm version.
Heres another shot for ya
A36 with nose guns
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/A36noseguns.jpg)
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Unfortunately our Ki84-Ostu falls in that category as well :cry
Yes, it does.
If your crystal ball is so accurate why didnt you warn us all about the housing crisis?
I say "bull" anyway. Choices drive revenue and in these times we need more customers...er... "targets!" :D
You'd have to be an idiot to not be able to predict the comparative usage levels that would be seen between a machine gun armed Allison Mustang and a cannon armed Allison Mustang. If you were an idiot it would be easy to see based on the old F4U-1D and F4U-1C usage levels.
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Please stop trying to explain to me what I know and don't know. The fact is your just plain wrong about that.
So don't push your overbearing view on me Krusty.
I'm not pushing diddley squat man. You've been pushing 20mm mustangs. And you've been spinning yarns and twisting facts to back yourself up as much as you can.
I'm not wrong about this. A-36 was a nice and "used" airframe early on in American war participation. This does not ring true of the 20mm loadout.
There's nothing to vote about. Only those who want overpowered hizooka planes vote for the cannon-armed mustang. It's a vote of ignorance more than anything.
That's not me forcing squat on you. That's me debunking your comments/claims. If you want to petition for the A-36 that's lovely. Don't try pushing the same stunt for the 20mm setup though.
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I'm not pushing diddley squat man. You've been pushing 20mm mustangs. And you've been spinning yarns and twisting facts to back yourself up as much as you can.
I'm not wrong about this. A-36 was a nice and "used" airframe early on in American war participation. This does not ring true of the 20mm loadout.
There's nothing to vote about. Only those who want overpowered hizooka planes vote for the cannon-armed mustang. It's a vote of ignorance more than anything.
That's not me forcing squat on you. That's me debunking your comments/claims. If you want to petition for the A-36 that's lovely. Don't try pushing the same stunt for the 20mm setup though.
LOL stunt... what photographic evidence isn't enough for ya. They were used in 100's of missions. They Qualify!
Period,
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LOL stunt... what photographic evidence isn't enough for ya. They were used in 100's of missions. They Qualify!
Period,
Of course they qualify.
That has nothing to do with our objection to it.
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He really doesn't get it Karnak. He's not even getting the basic grasp that there's more than 1 plane being discussed, and the A-36 isn't the problem. He fails on the most basic level to know 1 iota about this topic he's trying to control. The result is folly and ignorance.
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He really doesn't get it Karnak. He's not even getting the basic grasp that there's more than 1 plane being discussed, and the A-36 isn't the problem. He fails on the most basic level to know 1 iota about this topic he's trying to control. The result is folly and ignorance.
Dude Just because you and a few think it will imbalance the game so drastically ....DON"T mean I have to agree with you.
What is wrong with a cannon 51 Really?
I won't be flying it much but history shows it was there and was used in quantity.
What are your real objections that relate to the facts of this plane?
You want more info, more pics, what? Ill be happy too.
I fully understand the point you are trying to make but the decision isn't yours and I disagree agree with you.
So stop calling me names and trying to be little me you look stupid.
Got it?,
What is that old saying
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What is wrong with a cannon 51 Really?
I won't be flying it much but history shows it was there and was used in quantity.
What are your real objections that relate to the facts of this plane?
You want more info, more pics, what? Ill be happy too.
...
So stop calling me names and trying to be little me you look stupid.
You're the one that looks stupid. You're flat our wrong. Everyone (not just "a few) knows how you are wrong and you fail to "get it" over and over. You're the one looking stupid.
"history shows it was there and was used in quantity."
I've bolded where you are flat out wrong.
"What are your real objections that relate to the facts of this plane?
You want more info, more pics, what? Ill be happy too."
Wrong. You're posting info about mixed squadrons flying multiple planes, and showing pictures of A-36s, NOT cannon-armed Mustangs. You're posting info for plane A and saying it's plane B. Not one single thing you've posted is new info, but you're geting it so mixed up you think it's evidence to help you.
It's not.
You're posting evidence of the A-36 to support your claims of the widespread use of the Mustang. If you still refuse to understand, you are hopeless and your education must be hampered by some kind of syndrome or something. Seriously. For the last time:
The A-36 is not the same as the Mustang!
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Your right,
Once again the title of the thread is EARLY P-51 MUSTANG VARIANT
READ THE OP's STATEMENT POST. WTF DOES IT SAY?
Man you are dense,
You are the 1 that dose not understand what the thread is about
Edit: you came in here ... saw that old pic of the 20mm stang... went off on a tie raid.... and have since been proven wrong... it is not the first time either.
The 111th had the 20mm mustangs from april or may43 to nov43 when they upgraded to C stangs.
That's the history... to bad if you don't like it. 100's of missions were preformed.
:cheers:
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No to the cannon version of the Mustang, already enough no skilled 51 drivers as it is, don't need to add extra punch to the pick-mobiles.
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Ahhhhh...... so THIS is what it looks like from the other side of the 190 threads.... :D :bolt:
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Once again the title of the thread is EARLY P-51 MUSTANG VARIANT
IT was. YOU weren't. You were decidedly on about the specific variant.
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Mega give up you cant win an argument with a lemming. He even tells Ht he codes the game wrong he knows all.
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Mega give up you cant win an argument with a lemming. He even tells Ht he codes the game wrong he knows all.
As if you know anything. Every person in this thread read it as Megalodon was going on and on about the cannon-armed variant. Trying to pin this on me simply shows you are a lemming, not me.
His latest posts appear to be backpedalling to save face.
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His latest posts appear to be backpedalling to save face.
IT was. YOU weren't. You were decidedly on about the specific variant.
I posted new <New to AH as far as I know> Information about 1 of the variants mentioned in the OP's thread. Then posted about another variant in the OP's thread.
Your the 1 who is on about.. I don't know wtf I'm talking about. I have been doing plane research for years. In AW I mostly researched Luft planes but when I came to Aces High and the Forth, mostly American stuff.
Then after constant badgering by you I posted a pic of an A-36 with nose guns.
Shrug,
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As if you know anything. Every person in this thread read it as Megalodon was going on and on about the cannon-armed variant. Trying to pin this on me simply shows you are a lemming, not me.
His latest posts appear to be backpedalling to save face.
I don't see a problem yet you ASSume i don't know anything how presumptuous of you. He is talking about 2 different variants that were widely used.
Whether or not you agree is not his problem , yet you keep calling names as if you were in 5th grade. Its his wish let him and htc decide quit trying to nuke everyone's ideas because you don't agree. Despite what you think there is always another side of facts "you don't know everything" as you think.
Agree to disagree and move on to nuke another thread. In the wise words of Superfly "Don't Be A Dick".
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Experimental camouflage Capt Paul Hexter
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/p5120mmszebrapattern.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Aexperimentalcamo.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P51ACamoandescourt.jpg)
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sexy
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154th TRS
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51AoperationTorch-1.jpg)
"154th WEATHER RECONNAISSANCE SQUADRON. For outstanding performance of duty in
of strategic bombing operations against the enemy. On 17, 18, and 19
August 1944, during a period of concentrated bombing attacks against the huge
Ploesti oil refinery in Rumania, the aircraft of the 154th Weather
Reconnaissance Squadron, preceding the bombers over this vital target,
conducted an extensive pre-attack of the target’s defensive
system. Prior to the attack the ground personnel worked tirelessly to have
their aircraft at the peak of mechanical condition to insure the success of
this maximum effort of the squadron. Facing defending enemy fighters and
intense barrages of anti-aircraft fire with supreme courage and utter
disregard of the extreme hazards confronting them, the pilots of these
lightly armed, unescorted reconnaissance aircraft circled, crossed and recrossed
the heavily defended target area while procuring target defense data.
The weather aircraft pilots, following the initial transmission of the
assembled detailed data, continued to traverse the target area, photographing
the progress and results of the attack and maintaining a flow of target
information to the successive waves of bomber aircraft. Utilizing the vital
data furnished by the 154th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron’s pilots, the
bomber forces carried out highly successful attacks, destroying large areas
of vitally important refinery installations and supplies. The
aggressiveness, daring and high tactical efficiency, together with the
outstanding teamwork displayed in the execution of these missions, while
inaugurating new tactics against heavily defended targets is an outstanding
example of efficiency and versatility. By the untiring efforts and devotion
to duty of the ground crews, together with the aggressiveness, courage and
professional skill of the pilots, this mission, executed in keeping with the
highest traditions of the Armed Forces of the United States of America, has
contributed greatly to the hastening of the defeat of the enemy.
BY COMMAND OF MAJOR GENERAL TWINING"
P51A AAF
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P51AAAF.jpg)
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I really like Allison powered mustangs!! No matter what guns they have.
I like anything Allison powered!
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can't turn worth crap because it doesn't have the Merlin engine.
Seriously? You think the Merlin helps the turn rate? Why?
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OK, now you guys have me curious.
Could the P51D have been mounted with 4 Hispano MkV while maintaining it's performance? How about the F4U-4? Even the P47-D40/M/N?
More to the point. Are there any numbers for the A36\F6B\Mk1A Like:
Type---numbers---Guns---Ord---Missions---Dates
Then let the numbers talk and not your pet peives rattleing at each other. Seems when any of you want something you are just as industrious about finding every shred of evidence for your toy as your detractors can make excuses against it. Throw ALL the evidence for this beast on the table soup to nuts and let that speak against HTC's inclusion requirment for each varient. It will probably still come down to one of HTC's vote offs.
You guys have been doing this so long to each other. Are you sure we shouldn't get a room for you?
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sexy
Hehehe there have been pics of this plane before... just for the skin..I doubt it was known that it was a 20mm stang.
Thank you,
:salute
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OK, now you guys have me curious.
Could the P51D have been mounted with 4 Hispano MkV while maintaining it's performance? How about the F4U-4? Even the P47-D40/M/N?
More to the point. Are there any numbers for the A36\F6B\Mk1A Like:
Type---numbers---Guns---Ord---Missions---Dates
Then let the numbers talk and not your pet peives rattleing at each other. Seems when any of you want something you are just as industrious about finding every shred of evidence for your toy as your detractors can make excuses against it. Throw ALL the evidence for this beast on the table soup to nuts and let that speak against HTC's inclusion requirment for each varient. It will probably still come down to one of HTC's vote offs.
You guys have been doing this so long to each other. Are you sure we shouldn't get a room for you?
The A36 was the F6A the P51A was the F6B<20mm> and F6C<50cal>
If you can find me a room with Shania... I'd be game :pray
Additionally....... Look at the numbers on the AAF planes you will find at least 100 were used. 137321-137421
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So lets see now, how many Ta152 were used which got us the Ta152? How many Meteors were in use that got it in our last vote along with actual manned aircraft they shot down? How's about them spit14? And thems P47M.
So these 20mm things shot people down and comitted other combative damage along with being in service for how long?
While we are at it can I get a J3 with a bazooka?
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well yes the 111th was a single squadron apples to apples not apples to oranges
As I said I would like all 3 versions.
not just the cannon plane but until NOW I haven't seen this many and it has always been tucked under the rug so to speak as you are trying to do now.
Krusty here's a couple for you.
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombsandrockets.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombs-1.jpg)
Those Burma based birds would make the most sense to me, but you know what? I really don't care either way in the end. Give it your best shot to get em all. Since they'll be doing the early canopy, please include the option to use either that or the Malcom on the 51B/Cs too so there is more accuracy for each particular skin. Don Gentile's bird being a good example of one that needs that option. :aok
Having said that, I hope there are some other birds that get here first, Ki-43, Beaufighter, He-111, Te-2 etc.
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I would much rather have more early war stuff then things that can run or BNZ only.
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just fly a damn Chog LOL :bhead :bhead :bhead
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Krusty = LUFTWHINER!!!! He doesn't want this plane added to the game because his precious 109F would get owned by the A model mustang. You luftbags have your models, now why can't I have mine. Why are you whining about something as "crap" in your minds would be so terrible to add? I thought you guys loved killing mustangs and talking smack about them... :rofl
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I would much rather have more early war stuff then things that can run or BNZ only.
Once again Butcher, you are running into the wrong mustang pilots, you can't always assume EVERY mustang pilot in this game will run 100% of the time. And like I've said, if you don't believe me, fight me, I won't run.
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Once again Butcher, you are running into the wrong mustang pilots, you can't always assume EVERY mustang pilot in this game will run 100% of the time.
with 250,000+ sorties flown in a 51 per tour, I have to wait a few tours to find one thats decent.
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with 250,000+ sorties flown in a 51 per tour, I have to wait a few tours to find one thats decent.
Then don't fly toward the noobs :lol
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Then don't fly toward the noobs :lol
I fly in whatever direct houses the most red :) really I don't top 10k majority of the time, when a 51 shows up its generally 15k and one pass I will nose on and climb to it ready to HO, most zoom away and forget engaging - mainly being in a Ki-84 I hold all the cards in a typical dog fight.
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Then don't fly toward the PickAndRunStangs :lol
kinda hard, figuring they're everywhere
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A-36 +1
Four cannon Mustang -1
There's my vote. OP get's half of what he wants. Reading all this I think he wouldn't be satisfied.
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Screw the new models, give me that experimental camo on our P-51B
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Krusty = LUFTWHINER!!!! He doesn't want this plane added to the game because his precious 109F would get owned by the A model mustang.
Er... you don't seem to know what you're talking about.
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In short, there was no "Mustang A" as you put it -- it wasn't until the Merlin engine was put in and the P-51B was born that the aircraft really took off. It went from the A-36 to the P-51B, for all intents and purposes.
Early P-51 Variants
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/MustangI-IV.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/MustangI-IV.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/A-36.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/A-36.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php)
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In short, there was no "Mustang A" as you put it -- it wasn't until the Merlin engine was put in and the P-51B was born that the aircraft really took off. It went from the A-36 to the P-51B, for all intents and purposes.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/289/burned.jpg)
Early P-51 Variants
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/MustangI-IV.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/MustangI-IV.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/A-36.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/A-36.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51A.php)
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php (http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/p51variants/P-51B.php)
(http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/1397/braceyourselflongcommen.jpg)
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Those Burma based birds would make the most sense to me, but you know what? I really don't care either way in the end. Give it your best shot to get em all. Since they'll be doing the early canopy, please include the option to use either that or the Malcom on the 51B/Cs too so there is more accuracy for each particular skin. Don Gentile's bird being a good example of one that needs that option. :aok
We have discussed this before ...sorta. I would like to see 2 versions of the D aswell /1 /5 or /10 and /25 or/30
As it is we have one.... the D/30 but that's another subject.
I agree on the early canopy's and the Malcolm hood.
(http://www.luchtoorlog.be/img/p-51/ss6070-22b.jpg)
336th baby talking my language
The Allison birds <all of them > would be a great addition to AH.
As Lyric said if HT does go for the early models I would hope he puts them all in.
Having said that, I hope there are some other birds that get here first, Ki-43, Beaufighter, He-111, Te-2 etc.
I agree ...just I would rather ad new country's 1st
Dap Beaufighter, Boomerang, D.520 and the IAR and a Polish plane would be nice... again another subject.
So back on track :)
1 of my favs and with these a complete Group could be had... fighter... bomber and cargo.
Miss Virginia
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/1ACGp-51A.jpg)
1stACG
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/1ACG51Aflightline.jpg)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/1ACG51Aflightline2.jpg)
:cheers:
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Follow up:
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombsandrockets2.jpg)
:salute
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To reiterate:
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51Abombsandrockets2.jpg)
:salute
What are you reiterating?
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What are you reiterating?
Post #62 or #67 that claimed "those last two pictures you posted were A36's" There not ...I hadn't realized that the post got deleted. I will change the post.
I was looking through another book and found these captions for this plane.
:cheers:
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23rd FG P-51A getting some maintenance
(http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/p51pics/military/pacific/6.jpg)
"These well-worn P-51As were the first Mustangs to arrive in China, where they were assigned to the 76th FS 23FG following service with the 311th FBG in India. Their first mission was an uneventful bomber escort to Hankow from Suichuan flown on 23 November 1943"
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51A76thFSsharkmouth.jpg)
And this dirty Bird
"Tom Raleigh was a 'tech rep' from the Allison Division of General Motors, and he is seen here posing with Capt John Stewart's P-51A '122' (143-6303) in early 1944 at Suichuan. Named for Stewart's wife, Lynn, the aeroplane displays its pilot's full score of nine victory flags. It has also been fitted with a direction finding loop on the fuselage spine."
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/P-51A76thFSsharkmouthLynn.jpg)
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(http://mcclane.zonalibre.org/00intro.1.jpg)
There is no "Mustang A"!
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Awspme thx for reviving this I had nothing to read this morning.
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So the P-51A is a 4 gun allison powered P-51 before a merlin was stuck in it and called a P-51B\C?
All of these pilots, organisations and owners beleive they are flying allison powered P-51A's. Guess you need to contact all of them and correct their missconception.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?aircraftsearch=North%20American%20P-51A%20Mustang&distinct_entry=true
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Im gonna get flamed all to pieces about this,
So what. He wants the 51 with 4 20's who gives a flyin f I will put my entire life savings on this,
we get a 51 with 4x20mms he'll fly it half the community is going to fly it atleast once.
So I say why even bother flacking the shet out of him over a wish when you got an Me 410 otw with a 50MM.
I mean its really like this The 51A did not have the merlin engine it will have 4 20's in the wings which btw is pretty heavy its not gonna really out perfrom anything we really already have, but if he wants let him have it; I like the idea of a 51A with 4 20's though dont expect me fly it all the time, he can have it to challenge himself as well as any other pony dweebs.
The pony is a great bird but the less powerful engine and heavier gun package makes it a little more of a boat than the other pony's.
But I will amend to my original statement who cares why he wants it, it's a plane that I can promise you is going to get flown eventually yes, it will be a hangar queen because in MA most of the planes flown are usually performance planes and it just doesn't fit that bill for a big load of MA use however as far as Mid war and some MA use goes its an alright wish, we could really put this time into something of more importance to the game and we just might be saving HTC quite a bit of trouble for nothing.
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Some extra info.
http://www.scribd.com/Charlie_November/d/61761719-SSP-In-Action-045-North-American-P51-Mustang
http://www.scribd.com/doc/50507017/Squadron-Signal-Walk-Around-5513-Allison-Engined-Mustangs
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Some extra info.
http://www.scribd.com/Charlie_November/d/61761719-SSP-In-Action-045-North-American-P51-Mustang
http://www.scribd.com/doc/50507017/Squadron-Signal-Walk-Around-5513-Allison-Engined-Mustangs
Nice finds
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/WWhiskey/game%20stuff%20and%20other/P51-1a.jpg)
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Thank you Lyric. Its been killing me that the historical gurus havent quite put together yet that the P51/Mustang IA was the cannon bird and that the P-51A never had cannons. The Mustang is the easiest bird to find data on and this simplest of facts escaped nearly everyone in this thread.
Im all for the P-51/Mustang IA being added. Its not about history. Its about what would be good for this game. I think must of the "experts" that think they know whats good or bad for AH havent got a clue!
+1
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(http://mcclane.zonalibre.org/00intro.1.jpg)
There is no "Mustang A"!
(http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/images/smilies/info-smilie.gif)
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Has any WWII fighter pilot claimed a guns kill with the cannons?
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Thank you Lyric. Its been killing me that the historical gurus havent quite put together yet that the P51/Mustang IA was the cannon bird and that the P-51A never had cannons. The Mustang is the easiest bird to find data on and this simplest of facts escaped nearly everyone in this thread.
Im all for the P-51/Mustang IA being added. Its not about history. Its about what would be good for this game. I think must of the "experts" that think they know whats good or bad for AH havent got a clue!
+1
Meh, add em both, a Mustang that performs better than a spit 5 below 15k with 4 20's why not.
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Has any WWII fighter pilot claimed a guns kill with the cannons?
Almost certainly, but I don't see how that is relevant. The debate isn't about whether it saw combat, but whether the small number used historically justifies the, mostly negative, impact it would have in AH.
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No kill claims=get in line behind planes that did have them.
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No kill claims=get in line behind planes that did have them.
How many kill claims did the C-47A have? How about the Fi156? Mosquito Mk XVI?
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How many kill claims did the C-47A have? How about the Fi156? Mosquito Mk XVI?
How many Troops did a early varient pony carry? You know you can do better
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How many Troops did a early varient pony carry? You know you can do better
My point is that combat is what counts, not a single cherry picked part of combat.
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My point is that combat is what counts, not a single cherry picked part of combat.
Isnt effective combat what matters and in a fighter or a ground attack how do you measure "combat" there is no good way to argue what should be included first. All icepac(I cant belive I agrre with him) is saying there are more pressing needs out there, and more important aircraft. Granted Icepac probly said it the wrong way. Yes the Pony A is an important plane but we already ahave a few models of it out there why not add something that saw more service? The OP does mention this in his 1st post I think
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December 1940
The British increase their order for NA-73 to 620 aircraft. The additional 300 aircraft would be essentially identical to the first 320, but would carry the NAA designation of NA-83.
12/09/40
Letter issued by the BPC officially naming the NA-73 aircraft MUSTANG. These would be designated as the Mustang Mk I.
Letter was received by NAA on 12/12/40
04/07/41
NAA receives contract for 150 P-51s (NA-91) from AAC four months before 1st XP-51 arrives at Wright Field for testing. This was preliminary to the BPC order for Mustang Mk IAs on 06/30/41. The USAAC designation of P-51 was for the cannon equipped Mustang.
06/30/41
BPC Orders 150 Mustang Mk IA (NA-91) with four 20mm Hispano Cannon mounted in the wings. Defense Aid Contract DA-AC-140
January 1942
No 26 Squadron, RAF becomes the first operational squadron to receive Mustangs. Most of these had a camera mounted behind the pilot's armor for armed reconnaissance with Army Cooperation Command.
01/31/42
In January, 84 NA-73s were accepted by the RAF
04/16/42
USAAF issues contract #AC-27396 for 500 A-36A dive bomber version of P-51. Final contract approval would not come until 08/22/42. (2,5,6)
NAA Model Spec. NA-97 established for production of A-36As.
05/10/42
Operational debut of the Mustang Mk I in combat. The first operation was flown by F/Officer Graham Dawson No. 26 Squadron
5/30/42
1st flight of first of 150 Mustang Mk IAs (P-51) (41-37320) Pilot Bob Chilton (5)
1st tests of A-36 type dive brakes on a Mk I Mustang.
06/08/42
Bob Chilton conducts firing tests of AM190 with 20mm cannon installed in the wings.
06/23/42
NAA Project NA-99 initiated for construction of P-51A Mustangs w/4 .50 Cal wing guns. (5)
AAF Contract #AC-30479 for 1200 P-51A Mustangs with Allison V-1750-81 engine.
July 1942
The USAAF requisition the first 20 P-51s off the assembly lines for tactical reconnaissance. With two K-24 cameras installed, a total of 54 P-51s would be designated P-51-2, but changed to F-6A in October 1942. (5)
AUG 42
First operational use of Mustang Mk.IA aircraft (P-51) by RAF.
08/22/42
Final approval for A-36A contract arrives, while A-36 production already well under way. A/C #'s to 42-83663 through 42-84162. (5)
08/24/42
Final approval for P-51A contract for 1,200 aircraft to be built in 1943. (5)
MAR 43
A-36A Mustangs begin combat operations (2)
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Here is a website that I found interesting
http://www.mustangsmustangs.com/p-51/?variants/home/91806719
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(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/40e86ed8.jpg)
(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/45cc6996.jpg)