Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Seanaldinho on February 16, 2012, 02:57:04 PM
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Im starting to look more towards my future and the more I think it about it I cant be a military pilot even though I dream of it. Between asthma, poor eyesight, and flat feet the Air Force can just shrug me off. Unfortunately Im not sure what else in the military I would find enjoyable even but if I find something that will be my first choice. (If anyone has some suggestions please share.)
So Im looking now and I know that I dont want to fly for a commercial airline but want to fly. And the only real jobs that pop up are bush pilot and CFI. I live in florida and really dont want to move to Alaska so bush pilot is out but CFI would be attainable. So I guess what Im asking is what jobs are there in general aviation or the private sector and what do they pay?
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Be a pilot for one of the companies that charters airplanes. It is a good middle ground for those that want to fly but not for the big commercial companies.
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Being a CFI (or CFII) most places doesn't pay well at all. (my brother made less money for the year he spent as a CFII then when he was in school working nights as a janitor) For 90% of pilots working as a CFI is just a stepping stone to build hours until they have enough to meet them minimum requirements for a much better job.
You've ruled out the airlines, but there are still lots of other options out there, such as corporate/bizjets, freight/mail (boxes don't whine) and sightseeing tours.
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I look forward to being a poor CFI eating ramen. Should be a II before October 1st.
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Being a CFI (or CFII) most places doesn't pay well at all.
You've ruled out the airlines, but there are still lots of other options out there, such as corporate/bizjets, freight/mail (boxes don't whine) and sightseeing tours.
I know they make horrible pay and and dont want to fly freight either I have friends who fly for UPS and they say after takeoff basically they just relax until landing and to me that isnt flying but they are retired Navy sticks and have thousands of hours of real flying.
Ill have to see if anyone around here does sightseeing at the beach I know several helicopter companies tried but went out of business. Anyone know what banner towers make?
I look forward to being a poor CFI eating ramen. Should be a II before October 1st.
:aok It sounds fun to me but again money :frown:
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It's not that CFIs don't make much, it's that they don't work much. Say your making $40/hour, but you'll be working 4 hours a day, 2-3 days a week. So it's possible to make a respectable amount of money working as a CFI but you will have to work for a large school where you will have a normal work day. Most CFIs that I know do it because they either enjoy it or because their logging hours for something else.
One way you can a significant amount of money is if you open your own school. But then you'll be business man first and CFI second.
Anyone know what banner towers make?
I'd expect them to make less then CFIs.
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Sorry to burst your Bubble Seanaldinho, But Aviation is becoming the low rent district of "Professional" jobs. Don't get me wrong... I've put in 29 years as an A&P; worked hard for the "benefits" and even managed to have fun along the way. :salute
When asked "would you consider doing it all over again, if you had the chance..? My reply is quite quick, with a "No... Hell NO, not in Aviation" !! :huh
Find something that will be the "Cutting edge"... Technology, Health care, etc....( There are MANY more)... and save those pennies for the Aviation Flight time/School/ownership of an Aircraft. :old:
I have continuously sought higher education ( BS Aviation Mgmnt, minor in Psychology) and will, until I can no longer "learn"....
I've worked for Small Regionals, Helicopter operators in the Gulf of Mexico Large Airlines, FBO's and lastly Pratt & Whitney (Inspector, manager & even had the opportunity to work with engineers, solving complex issues involving Turbine Engine reliability). I have PPSEL by the way, but "fun" is always a question of $$$ going to the House?.....or burn circles in the sky?
I can go into many different reasons why I'm getting out of Aviation, but the gist is "How do you make a Small Fortune in Aviation....... START with a large one"
Pm me if I an answer any questions OUTSIDE these bbs.
Good luck in your 'venture.
<<S>>
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It's not that CFIs don't make much, it's that they don't work much. Say your making $40/hour, but you'll be working 4 hours a day, 2-3 days a week. So it's possible to make a respectable amount of money working as a CFI but you will have to work for a large school where you will have a normal work day. Most CFIs that I know do it because they either enjoy it or because their logging hours for something else.
One way you can a significant amount of money is if you open your own school. But then you'll be business man first and CFI second.
I'd expect them to make less then CFIs.
I have no problem working for a large school I think it would be cool to do that and make a decent living.
Without a doubt they make less but it would be a good summer job for me.
Sorry to burst your Bubble Seanaldinho, But Aviation is becoming the low rent district of "Professional" jobs. Don't get me wrong... I've put in 29 years as an A&P; worked hard for the "benefits" and even managed to have fun along the way. :salute
When asked "would you consider doing it all over again, if you had the chance..? My reply is quite quick, with a "No... Hell NO, not in Aviation" !! :huh
Find something that will be the "Cutting edge"... Technology, Health care, etc....( There are MANY more)... and save those pennies for the Aviation Flight time/School/ownership of an Aircraft. :old:
I have continuously sought higher education ( BS Aviation Mgmnt, minor in Psychology) and will, until I can no longer "learn"....
I've worked for Small Regionals, Helicopter operators in the Gulf of Mexico Large Airlines, FBO's and lastly Pratt & Whitney (Inspector, manager & even had the opportunity to work with engineers, solving complex issues involving Turbine Engine reliability). I have PPSEL by the way, but "fun" is always a question of $$$ going to the House?.....or burn circles in the sky?
I can go into many different reasons why I'm getting out of Aviation, but the gist is "How do you make a Small Fortune in Aviation....... START with a large one"
Pm me if I an answer any questions OUTSIDE these bbs.
Good luck in your 'venture.
<<S>>
No bubble to burst lol. I understand that aviation is no longer as well paying as it used to be but I love doing it which pays dividends in my book. Im also not looking for a big six figure annual salary more along the lines of a solid 80 to 90k a year once Ive established myself, in my 30's, and built up seniority. Just enough to raise my 2.6 children with my small cottage house and white picket fence.
Thank you though for the offer and I may take you up on it at some point.
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Look at NASA for aviation careers. Remember on 20 July 1969, it was a civilian that stepped first on the moon.
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Ah General Aviation, a good way to make a lousy income. Add to that unstable employment, liability risks and greedy cheap customers. No, it's a better hobby than career field overall. But it is fun.
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You want to raise a family and yet work in some capacity as a pilot. You've already ruled out the jobs with even a remote chance of a living wage.
In all seriousness, I think it is time to take off the rose colored glasses and look at a career where you make enough that you can raise a family and have a hobby in flying. To try and raise a family on a CFI or CFII ticket outside of the heavy training arenas is a fools errand. You'd make more driving a greyhound bus.
Most of us involved in this game have a dream of flying for a living. Some folks already had the dream job and now have no retirement. Ask Toad about that.
There is no stability, there is no guaranty of a job, there is no decent money to be made flying little planes and teaching other folks to fly. Sorry but that is the cold hard truth of the matter.
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I have no problem working for a large school I think it would be cool to do that and make a decent living.
I know you don't, my point is that you will limit yourself to working for a handful of companies. You know how normally you send out like 20 job applications and get invited to 2 or 3 interviews, in this case you will only be able to send 2 or 3 applications.
Without a doubt they make less but it would be a good summer job for me.
Wait...you want a summer job? Thought you were looking for a career? You'll spend a lot more money getting your ratings then you will make during the summer.
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I know you don't, my point is that you will limit yourself to working for a handful of companies. You know how normally you send out like 20 job applications and get invited to 2 or 3 interviews, in this case you will only be able to send 2 or 3 applications.
Ah understood.
Wait...you want a summer job? Thought you were looking for a career? You'll spend a lot more money getting your ratings then you will make during the summer.
I am looking for a career but if Im not in college yet or without a job and have a commercial ticket it will be a possibility as an inbetween.
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I am looking for a career but if Im not in college yet or without a job and have a commercial ticket it will be a possibility as an inbetween.
If you already have the rating, the yes. Specifically getting them for it is not worth it. Private pilot alone will cost you around $10K, then you got to get your instrument, commercial, CFI, and CFII. The way I see that's the bare minimum you need to be compatible with other instructors.
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As a student at a large school I know that the two highest paid instructors here made about 36k and 40k before taxes, but to do so they were at the school from 8 am to midnight.
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As a student at a large school I know that the two highest paid instructors here made about 36k and 40k before taxes, but to do so they were at the school from 8 am to midnight.
Ouch. haha
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. Im also not looking for a big six figure annual salary more along the lines of a solid 80 to 90k a year once Ive established myself
80 to 90K :huh Regional airlines only pay between 20 and 27k. If there's a GA job that pays 80 to 90k you can be sure the queue for it will be very long indeed. I can see where you're coming from. Airline flying is boring. GA seem like fun and it often is. Just don't expect to make an adequate living from it. That's the way it is.
While I'm not living in the US, it's pretty much the same here. Year before last I barely got 25k flying skydivers. Same job in the states pays less and you work seven days a week. Not family friendly. Let me tell you the fun soon goes out of flying when you find yourself logging eight hours or more per day for the 5th day in a row.
That's why people go into the airlines.
Seriously your best bet is to do as the others suggest and get into something else that does earn a six figure sum and instruct, drop skydivers, fly banners etc on your days off. Much more fun.
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No bubble to burst lol. I understand that aviation is no longer as well paying as it used to be but I love doing it which pays dividends in my book. Im also not looking for a big six figure annual salary more along the lines of a solid 80 to 90k a year once Ive established myself, in my 30's, and built up seniority. Just enough to raise my 2.6 children with my small cottage house and white picket fence.
Thank you though for the offer and I may take you up on it at some point.
If you want 80 to 90K as as civilian pilot I recommend you go for the airlines and in about 20-30 you might get it.
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As a student at a large school I know that the two highest paid instructors here made about 36k and 40k before taxes, but to do so they were at the school from 8 am to midnight.
Ouch. haha
Yeah that's pretty much the way it's going to be for you if you want to make a career out of GA, if you get lucky.
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Hmm it seems ill be going for my engineering degree now. :bolt:
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One way you can a significant amount of money is if you open your own school. But then you'll be business man first and CFI second.
Bwahahahahahaha. OMG. Bwahahahahaha. LOL. LMAO. Bwahahahahahahaha
That's some funny stuff right there.
Woo boy.
Know how to make a small fortune in aviation? Start with a large fortune.
:devil
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Bwahahahahahaha. OMG. Bwahahahahaha. LOL. LMAO. Bwahahahahahahaha
That's some funny stuff right there.
Woo boy.
Know how to make a small fortune in aviation? Start with a large fortune.
:devil
:headscratch: Okay...
Can you think of a way to make more money while sticking to small GA planes?
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Hmm it seems ill be going for my engineering degree now. :bolt:
Were not trying to talk you out of it, it's just that if all you want is money than you should probably choose a non-flying career. BTW a starting salary for an engineer is not 90K either, more like 45-50K.
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One of my old gf's and still a good friend, went to a aviation school near Waco at an old airfield? AF1 landed there during Bush's time (she graduated from Crawford high). She received a two year degree in aircraft design during the 90's? 10 years ago she made $45/hour plus about $2000 living expenses. She does the same thing for the Navel research lab around D.C. now. She also did custom work, like designing speaker boxes on private jet, but she did work on c-130 gunships, and she loves the p3. she did stuff like designing where to put the microphone boxes. Looks like a cool job. While we dated, I even got to met a master chief from the Association of old Buzzards. They get to try out a lot of the new cool stuff. She was very tight lipped about what she did. She gets to travel all over the world in some pretty cool place, and got to steer an aircraft carrier for a little while.
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In general it seems to me that people place waaaaay to much emphasis on $$$$ when it comes to choosing a career path.
There are lots of people out there who make 6 figure incomes and are miserable because they hate their job. There are also a lot of people out there who make < $40K and are always happy because they love their job. I met a guy just yesterday who turned down a $120K job to keep his $50K job, because he said it didn't sound like much fun, and he loves his current job. The trick is just to live within your means, and not spend like your making $100K when your making $40K. In most parts of the country you can provide for a typical family of 4 quite easily (and set aside a decent retirement fund) on $40K a year.
My advice is to choose a career path you will enjoy, then live within your means at whatever income it provides. Personally I'd rather make $35K a year and be happy, then make $350K and be miserable. In spite of what society would have you believe money is a poor anti-depressant, true being dirt broke and in debt is very depressing, but once you reach the point of being able to comfortably provide the necessities, any money above and beyond that won't automatically make you happier.
So if aviation is what your passionate about, and really want to do, then DO IT! Be happy and don't worry about the $$$$. Remember that nothing is written in stone either, if you want to fly a fun GA job when your young single and don't need that much money, then later settle down, have 8 kids and need to make more money to feed them, great, there is no rule that says you can't switch careers.
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Were not trying to talk you out of it, it's just that if all you want is money than you should probably choose a non-flying career. BTW a starting salary for an engineer is not 90K either, more like 45-50K.
Well I said 80k as hopefully what ill make after 15 or so years starting salary I understand to be much lower.
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If you want 80 to 90K as as civilian pilot I recommend you go for the airlines and in about 20-30 you might get it.
Machfly,
Please educate yourself a little further before you give advice that's so wrong even you would wonder what you're thinking. What brochures are you reading out of anyway?
Sean you're eyeing what are typically viewed as entry level positions as your future career. You will work hard as a CFI putting a lot of hours in both on the ground and in the air if you want to make any semblance of a living. There are those who do and their experience demands a premium however they represent an extreme minority of what you'd call professional instructors in the sense you're imagining. You can make a good living working for some of the major schoolhouses such as FlightSafety International and Simuflite as a ground and simulator instructor but those jobs don't keep you flying as part of your regular duties.
I think you might have an idea that having a career in aviation might be a dream and if you pursue it good for you. It isn't all sunshine and daisies, you will work hard and you won't be home all the time if you truly make a career of it. Heck, you probably don't even know where home will be if you choose that path. I sure don't know where I'll en up an being mobile has helped in my career progression more than any tidbit of knowledge I've ever possessed. Being able to move to where the work happens to be is half the battle if you don't want to follow the airline route save for some very special circumstances.
If you really want to have a career in aviation then get started as a hobby. Fly, decide if it's right for you and you won't have any question about it when you have that epiphany. I didn't have any doubt and made the decision during my second year of college and had an instrument rating. After that I changed schools, lived on a student loan and flew anything I could get my hands on while I learned everything I could. I lived in 6 different cities and after 10 years am finally considering buying a house as a symbol of what I view as finally achieving some stability. I've been very fortunate as there are those who have been flying for 25 years that don't have things as good as I do and I think it's important to keep that perspective. I probably told everyone I encountered considering aviation as a career I just can't recommend it because of the risk you're taking. If they really had it in them and they did it anyway then they might just have a shot. Running into former instructors has been neat but finally running into former students who are making their way into professional jobs is one of the most satisfying things I've ever done.
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Machfly,
Please educate yourself a little further before you give advice that's so wrong even you would wonder what you're thinking. What brochures are you reading out of anyway?
Every time I post something you come in and say that I'm wrong and should educate myself. How about you say what's wrong. You claim to know everyone yet your first priority is to prove me wrong and then to help out the guy that's asking for help.
Have you ever agreed with me, on anything? You don't really post much but every time I make a thread or one post that has anything to do with flying you find it, come in and start saying what ever it takes to prove me wrong. What is your problem?
Now regarding where I get my number. Here is a jetblue (random major airline) pay chart from airlinepilotcentral.com. Now you guys don't work as much as normal people do so the standard equation hourly pay rate x 8 x 5 x 52 does not work, in addition to hours you get paid you so still need to do the preflight along with a whole bunch of other things. Also, a major airline ain't going to hire you with 100 hours, so it will be a while before you start getting paid anywhere near six digits.
(http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/images/stories/airlines/pay_jetblue2009.gif)
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Fair enough.
Aside from the idea that it's a good financial decision to start a flight school I think the most recent thing was you using an incident as an example only to find out you didn't actually know anything about that incident even very basic research would have provided.
I watched a guy squander a seven figure windfall from a construction accident on starting a flight school. Aside from having totally unrealistic leases on his airplanes he couldn't run a business any more than Japanese speak Navajo.
I guess my main beef would be passing off unrealistic advice as good advice and asking things even the most basic google search would answer. Is that fair? Maybe not and while I realize not everyone works the same way it still irks me and I don't generally sit on my irks.
Maybe I should be less like this guy:
(http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/duty_calls.png)
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(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/423047_10100145573227175_29400443_41768498_1606450944_n.jpg)
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It's good you used JetBlue as an example as I have some experience with them.
A 3 year 190 FO can make 6 figures. That is a fact. While you're limited to flying 1000 hours a year per FARs what you'll actually credit and at what rate can vary. They have an override threshold after which your hours are paid at time and a half. I don't remember off hand what it is but your block hours (logbook hours) and credit hours (what you're paid) aren't always the same. Depending on how I bid at my former employer (NOT JetBlue) and what the company's needs were even though I could only block an average 83.3 hours a month I'd often credit 120+. If I was crediting 70 hours at regular rate and whatever remainder block hours at my override rate I could do quite well.
Each airlines contract is different in how it's set up but except for bottom rung regionals (my former employer counts) even a 10 year FO can make a reasonable living. Brand X is a lousy example because their FOs top out at $36/hr with no trip or duty rigs or cancellation pay. Lousy deal and extra lousy and stagnant for the 6 year FOs with no upward movement.
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Fair enough.
Aside from the idea that it's a good financial decision to start a flight school I think the most recent thing was you using an incident as an example only to find out you didn't actually know anything about that incident even very basic research would have provided.
I watched a guy squander a seven figure windfall from a construction accident on starting a flight school. Aside from having totally unrealistic leases on his airplanes he couldn't run a business any more than Japanese speak Navajo.
I guess my main beef would be passing off unrealistic advice as good advice and asking things even the most basic google search would answer. Is that fair? Maybe not and while I realize not everyone works the same way it still irks me and I don't generally sit on my irks.
Maybe I should be less like this guy:
(http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/myl/llog/duty_calls.png)
I did not say that it's a good financial decision. I said if you want do work with GA and you can be a good businessman you will make more then as a regular CFI forking for some small school. I never said that anyone can do it. He was looking for something to do with GA, I have him an idea. If he would have gotten any interest in it I would have explained it more specifically.
Regarding the incident, sure I didn't know every detail, but what I knew was enough to prove my point. And I did prove it.
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It's good you used JetBlue as an example as I have some experience with them.
A 3 year 190 FO can make 6 figures. That is a fact. While you're limited to flying 1000 hours a year per FARs what you'll actually credit and at what rate can vary. They have an override threshold after which your hours are paid at time and a half. I don't remember off hand what it is but your block hours (logbook hours) and credit hours (what you're paid) aren't always the same. Depending on how I bid at my former employer (NOT JetBlue) and what the company's needs were even though I could only block an average 83.3 hours a month I'd often credit 120+. If I was crediting 70 hours at regular rate and whatever remainder block hours at my override rate I could do quite well.
Each airlines contract is different in how it's set up but except for bottom rung regionals (my former employer counts) even a 10 year FO can make a reasonable living. Brand X is a lousy example because their FOs top out at $36/hr with no trip or duty rigs or cancellation pay. Lousy deal and extra lousy and stagnant for the 6 year FOs with no upward movement.
I think I might have misunderstood you, you guys log less hours then you really fly to make it legal with the FAA?
When you said that a 3 year FO can make 6 figures, that's 3 years with the company. I'm sure that he's been flying for a lot longer then that.
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Well you sort of didn't referencing the Korean Air flight but that's obviously it's own tangent in another thread.
And when (not if, as it's much more likely to fail than succeed) your flight school goes bankrupt for dozens of reasons it doesn't pay as much as being a CFI for a different solvent business.
The very last thing I'd do is start a school to provide basic flight instruction. I didn't even do that back when I actively instructed since the demand just isn't there in most municipalities. Getting into more specialized instruction can be somewhat more lucrative and establishing your own network of good clients (think Wolfala) is extremely beneficial but it's not going to make you a fortune. It's poor advice and I think you'll find those who have done it (and I'm not suggesting I'm the beacon of experience in the matter) would agree.
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I think I might have misunderstood you, you guys log less hours then you really fly to make it legal with the FAA?
When you said that a 3 year FO can make 6 figures, that's 3 years with the company. I'm sure that he's been flying for a lot longer then that.
No. What you fly is what you fly and you're limited to that number per FARs. What you get paid can be significantly more based on override, deadhead, trip/duty rigs and any number of other means.
What do you want to do with your career? Where will you be in 5 years? 10? Retirement?
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And when (not if, as it's much more likely to fail than succeed) your flight school goes bankrupt for dozens of reasons it doesn't pay as much as being a CFI for a different solvent business.
The very last thing I'd do is start a school to provide basic flight instruction. I didn't even do that back when I actively instructed since the demand just isn't there in most municipalities. Getting into more specialized instruction can be somewhat more lucrative and establishing your own network of good clients (think Wolfala) is extremely beneficial but it's not going to make you a fortune. It's poor advice and I think you'll find those who have done it (and I'm not suggesting I'm the beacon of experience in the matter) would agree.
Whether your school succeeds or not depends on you. Most people suck as business management, it does not mean that those that are good should look at the statistics and not do it.
I never said anything about a school that will provide basic flight instruction, I just said flight school in general.
Here is a perfect example of a small good flight school, Tutima Academy, people go there from all over the country. Sean Tucker doesn't just know how to fly good he also made good business decisions. I don't know how much the guy makes, but I bet it's a lot.
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They started a new flight school in San Marcos that looks pretty good
http://redbirdskyport.com/
They are doing alot to bring people in, atleast get their name out there and make sure everyone has a positive experience. They had an AOPA town house with Craig Fuller last Monday and on March 3rd they are having a fly-in lunch. I think it would be a neat place to work.
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Everybody should open a flight school because it's a great career choice and has a very good chance of success.
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No. What you fly is what you fly and you're limited to that number per FARs. What you get paid can be significantly more based on override, deadhead, trip/duty rigs and any number of other means.
Roger.
What do you want to do with your career? Where will you be in 5 years? 10? Retirement?
Me? USAF.
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Everybody should open a flight school because it's a great career choice and has a very good chance of success.
My first instruductory flight got cancelled twice because of weather, on the third time I called back the line was dead. My mom and I drove out to the airport and the school was closed.
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They started a new flight school in San Marcos that looks pretty good
http://redbirdskyport.com/
They are doing alot to bring people in, atleast get their name out there and make sure everyone has a positive experience. They had an AOPA town house with Craig Fuller last Monday and on March 3rd they are having a fly-in lunch. I think it would be a neat place to work.
I been to an openhouse of a flight school last year. Those guys existed for 10 years or so but they were training in strictly helicopters. Last year they decided to expand and bought 12 Piper LSAs and 6 SR20s. It looked great, they had great facilities, great fleet, and plenty or experience. Right now they sold most of the fleet, have 2 Pipers left (and one is on sale) and 1 Cirrus that just sits in the hangar.
I really thought they were going to do well.
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The flight school that I flew out of for awhile (and rent the 210 and cub at) is a private owned public use airfield. The flight school and the FBO are owned by the folks that own the airfield so the overhead is minimal http://5c1.net/
That's where I intend on teaching once I get my CFI
edit: I also get all my maintenance done out there.
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Southwest pilots would know the lady the owns it
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Lol my cfi just turned 23 :lol
If you want to make money it's in uav's right now. That is my goal. Down side is it's all point and click waypoint flying. I'm working toward cfi. As I would rather teach than fly them.
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you could fly for Fedex or UPS.
or you could fly for World Airways, they are a chartered company and fly military personnel around the world.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5050/5285068243_19a29ab3a9.jpg)
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If you want to make money it's in uav's right now. That is my goal. Down side is it's all point and click waypoint flying. I'm working toward cfi. As I would rather teach than fly them.
Thankfully the only place in the continental US where you can fly them is in a restricted area.
What makes you think that it's the way to make money? Is there even a single civilian company that has UAVs?
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Thankfully the only place in the continental US where you can fly them is in a restricted area.
What makes you think that it's the way to make money? Is there even a single civilian company that has UAVs?
No quite true. I know at our airport, we can fly them up to 400ft agl on airport property. I dont know if thats a general number, or just for us however.
I know that because my college is starting a professional drone program this summer. The drones will have a 30ft wingspan and weight 300lbs and are legit D.O.D drones (tarzan 2). sicne we would be doing manuvers, they had to go out and find a restricted area to use them up to 14,000ft.
Yes, there are a lot of civilian drone users. A lot of police departments use them and realestate agencies. It pays a very large sum too. I have heard of real estate drones costing multiple hundreds of dollars per hour.
I dont want to fly drones, but i am hoping to be a part of the initial checkout of the drone program beacuse they may be running it for free and i would get a second associates degree for drone operations
As for airline pay, regionals can do quite well even though the initial pay is horrible. I have heard of regional captains making almost 100k a year in the US.
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Well you sort of didn't referencing the Korean Air flight but that's obviously it's own tangent in another thread.
And when (not if, as it's much more likely to fail than succeed) your flight school goes bankrupt for dozens of reasons it doesn't pay as much as being a CFI for a different solvent business.
The very last thing I'd do is start a school to provide basic flight instruction. I didn't even do that back when I actively instructed since the demand just isn't there in most municipalities. Getting into more specialized instruction can be somewhat more lucrative and establishing your own network of good clients (think Wolfala) is extremely beneficial but it's not going to make you a fortune. It's poor advice and I think you'll find those who have done it (and I'm not suggesting I'm the beacon of experience in the matter) would agree.
Been dealing with 2 broke ribs from my aforementioned activities: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-LNT0GzRT0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-LNT0GzRT0)
As Golfer mentioned, there are opportunities around for highly specialized instruction which have a much higher pay grade then the typical CFI. If you have yr own aircraft to travel to the clients also helps keep the clients satisfied. Much of the training revolves around the newer avionics and autopilot incarnations, but to a larger extent - power plant management. Owners also are wanting to have a more mechanical background with their equipment so be able to better troubleshoot issues before they become AOG problems. Very rarely do I spent 1 or 2 hours with a client unless they are local because I end up wasting my day for a 1 or 2 hour session - but more often then not end up billing out on a daily rate with clients that travel in, or I fly out to.
Side opportunities present themselves in the ways of being a buyers representative if you have deep systems knowledge of the specific aircraft a client is looking to purchase which can be lucrative in their own regard even if you are not using the 6% of the sale price as a benchmark.
Point is, flying for the sake of flying is a means to an end - which is usually being broke. If you are proficient in many areas related to flying, then the flying becomes complementary to those other skills and are sought after.
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Ouch Wolf, didn't know you broke your ribs. Best wishes for a speedy and painless recovery.
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oh about Jet Blue. my buddy's dad is a Federal Flight Deck officer (armed pilot) and flys for them, his family is doing VERY good money wise.
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If you don't want to fly big commercial aircraft, you are not going to make 80-90K a year, sorry. Even if you did fly for a large carrier, you wouldn't make that kind of money for a long time. I guess you don't realize it, but $80,000/yr is a lot of money...
There are small companies out there (Cape Air comes to mind) that you can get in flying smaller aircraft. As a Captain, you can potentially make 40-50K a year.
If you are looking for close to 6-digit salaries...start working towards your helicopter rating. You won't be raising any families, though.
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If you don't want to fly big commercial aircraft, you are not going to make 80-90K a year, sorry. Even if you did fly for a large carrier, you wouldn't make that kind of money for a long time. I guess you don't realize it, but $80,000/yr is a lot of money...
it can be done, just have to find the right employer. I don't know exactl what they are making, but IIRC, net jets pays pretty good especially if you are overseas.
Also, having one job is not the only wy it can be done. One of the flight instructors where I fly instructs as his main job time wise. But he also flies a king air maybe once or twice a month for the king airs owner and he is paid a nice salary for it.
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I don't instruct, never wanted to. I have no inclination to spend my day sitting beside someone whose sole mission that day is to kill me.
Quickest way to take the joy out of aviation is to fly for a living. It turns the passion into work. Although....when you get that perfect day and the flying is spectacular it seems to make all the negatives go away, just enough to keep you doing it. Dammit.
Best piece of advice I can give you is if you want to be in aviation do it because you love it, not for the money. There is no money.
32+ years now in aviation and don't really regret any of it, but I am poor as dirt.
RTR
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it can be done, just have to find the right employer. I don't know exactl what they are making, but IIRC, net jets pays pretty good especially if you are overseas.
Also, having one job is not the only wy it can be done. One of the flight instructors where I fly instructs as his main job time wise. But he also flies a king air maybe once or twice a month for the king airs owner and he is paid a nice salary for it.
I have talked to a bunch of Net Jet pilots. That isn't a job you want if you plan on raising a family, or so it seems to me. Those guys don't know where they're going to be tomorrow, and often times get stuck just anywhere for hours, even days in between flights.
NetJets is a fractional, meaning people pay a fee each year, and are allotted flight time (kind of like how a timeshare works). I think it would be exciting as a young single fellow. Not so much for a married father. Just my opinion, of course.
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Thankfully the only place in the continental US where you can fly them is in a restricted area.
And?
That is getting ready to change. Congress has mandated the FAA integrate drone, uav's by 2015.
What makes you think that it's the way to make money? Is there even a single civilian company that has UAVs?
First off it's "A" way to make money, never said it was "the" way.
What is a civilian company? And? What does it have to do with the price of tea. I think GE would qualify.
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And?
That is getting ready to change. Congress has mandated the FAA integrate drone, uav's by 2015.
No way? Maybe FAA will integrate them but I still don't seem them flying with manned aircraft in the near future
First off it's "A" way to make money, never said it was "the" way.
What is a civilian company? And? What does it have to do with the price of tea. I think GE would qualify.
I mean how would you use one for civilian reasons?
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Yes, there are a lot of civilian drone users. A lot of police departments use them and realestate agencies. It pays a very large sum too. I have heard of real estate drones costing multiple hundreds of dollars per hour.
Police don't really use anything for civilian reasons.
Why would a realestate agency need a drone? All they need is an office and a desk.
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In response to the UAV argument..... you could get a job flying for Animal Rights activists! :D LOL
http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html (http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html)
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No way? Maybe FAA will integrate them but I still don't seem them flying with manned aircraft in the near future
Well you better get used to the idea because it IS MANDATED for 2015 for an integration with Nextgen for drones and Aircraft to fly together in the same exact location.
Police don't really use anything for civilian reasons.
Its mostly civilians flying the drones under contract for the police departments.
Why would a realestate agency need a drone? All they need is an office and a desk.
Obviously you don't watch to many RC videos on youtube...
What is the best way to showcase something? show it at every possible view. They are sending up helicopters with video cameras and video taping the house and surrounding areas.
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Well you better get used to the idea because it IS MANDATED for 2015 for an integration with Nextgen for drones and Aircraft to fly together in the same exact location.
What is your source?
Its mostly civilians flying the drones under contract for the police departments.
That's still not for civilian reasons. That's like calling a mercenary a civilian because he is not a part of the military.
Obviously you don't watch to many RC videos on youtube...
What is the best way to showcase something? show it at every possible view. They are sending up helicopters with video cameras and video taping the house and surrounding areas.
I don't know about that. I'd much rather see it from the ground as I would be a lot closer and would be able to inspect the house. From the air that's just looking at the area around the house, you can do that from satellite, no need to fly over it, especially send a drone.
I'm not really sure what RV videos on youtube have to do with it.
The only reason why you would want a drone is if there is a possibility of being shot down. There is no reason to use it over US.
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What is your source?
The only reason why you would want a drone is if there is a possibility of being shot down. There is no reason to use it over US.
Do you know how much it costs to fly a helicopter per hour? over almost $1000/hr if not over it. The cost to buy a new Police helicopter, ~$3,000,000-10,000,000 depending on the model. The price to buy a drone, ~$300,000-500,000. Cost per hour, $200-500. Which one would you get, especially in the tight financial budget we are in.
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Do you know how much it costs to fly a helicopter per hour? over almost $1000/hr if not over it. The cost to buy a new Police helicopter, ~$3,000,000-10,000,000 depending on the model. The price to buy a drone, ~$300,000-500,000. Cost per hour, $200-500. Which one would you get, especially in the tight financial budget we are in.
A drone that can do the same stuff as a typical manned helicopter will only cost more. The reason the drones are cheaper is because all they need to carry is a camera. If all you need is a camera you don't need a helicopter. Take some cheap light ports aircraft that will fly at 30kts and it will do the job. If you do want a helicopter than a drone will be useless as it can not hover and it can't carry people.
The $1000/hr to operate a helicopter would be very specific to the type of helicopter therefore that number would be wrong most of the time.
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The only reason why you would want a drone is if there is a possibility of being shot down. There is no reason to use it over US.
Clearly you didnt see my link.
http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html
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Clearly you didnt see my link.
http://thetandd.com/animal-rights-group-says-drone-shot-down/article_017a720a-56ce-11e1-afc4-001871e3ce6c.html
I saw it, I'm just not sure how to comment. It's a rather unique scenario.