Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Shifty on February 17, 2012, 11:42:57 PM
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Write up at http://ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html (http://ahevents.org/fso-current-next-event.html)
Registration Starts Saturday Feb 18th at 12:00 EST and Ends Saturday Feb25th at 12:00 EST.
:salute
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Best looking Western Front setup in a long time. All except for those no-fly zones.
The 8th...yummy yummy
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Looks great, this should be a fun one. BTW, <S> to all in the last frame, well done by all
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DGS comes to mind when looking at this FSO. Wish I could participate but I'm sure it's going to be a hell of a operation for both sides.
:aok
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Another USAF mauling from the start, I must say...
There's a major problem with this kind of setup. First, I GET why bombers have air starts. You're shortening the tedious part. However, the ESCORTS for those bombers have FAR too much advantage. If the LW planes scramble to take off burning ALL wep they have they can get to 25-30k just in time to break into the enemy fight. Meanwhile the Jugs that spawn at alt spend their time saving WEP and climbing to 35k+
In this one you have listed a 30K alt cap, but still from experience the LW planes will be tired and out of WEP by the time they get there.
Solution: Air spawn the bombers. Have the Jugs take off and climb out. This is not only accurate, as the jugs would have to climb out on their own leg of the escort mission, and rendezvous with the bombers, etc, but it also solves the problem of them having an advantage (or... "more" of one) against the LW.
Second, the totally 100% unhistorical 425 rpg ammo load on the jugs. Never used. EVER. There's no evidence anything of the sort ever saw combat. No historic records ever. The combat loads were 267 rpg for 8 guns and only up to 300-310 rpg for the lighter 6 gun load.
This gives the allied escorts a far superior reach and punch than they had in the war. What this means is that they spend the time loitering around 2x or 3x longer than they should ever have and go free roaming shooting down LW planes without ammo. It's insult to unjury.
Solution: Use the CM setup to limit the ammo loads to 267 rpg.
I'm an equal opportunity player. I really enjoy some allied planes and some axis planes. I don't stick to just one ride or a couple. I like to enjoy all sides of the game I can. However, it really gets to me when I see setups like this that give the advantages all to 1 side. I had to voice some options to correct that.
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When I read the setup, It shows the Axis will have air starts too Krusty.
BTW, I haven't seen you around on Friday nights, you taking a break?
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I'm happy to volunteer with a 190 unit. Anyone need a half decent stick?
Boo
XO, BOG
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Even without air starts it takes 1943 LW fighters no more than @15 minutes max to reach operational alt without using WEP once, average 2k per min gives you 30,000+ feet. They can be at 20k in about 8 minutes? These things are designed so the defenders have time to intercept. I dont ever recall an FSO of any type where the defenders had no time to intercept certainly not an 8th AF one. The only time I recall WEPing to catch Allied bombers was after rtb and refuel and relaunch for sortie #2.
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Looks like a fun set up.
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I can't believe I'll be missing this FSO, it'll be the Battle Over Germany Scenario all over again.
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Yippee! Spin'em Up!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/oneillflt.jpg)
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Although in past scenarios like this it seems the LW does get chewed up abit, there really isnt a bad side to be assigned or a ride to be given. Looks like alot of fun overall.
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Oh Boy, yummy n cruntchy bolts!!!!! I can't wait to sink my teeth into them :devil
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This is very much like the early frames of Battle Over Germany and Black Thursday scenarios~ Excellent fights, jugs did better up high but once they got low over enemy turf the 109/190s had a picnic. Buffs could take care of themselves fairly well up high with just a light escort and tight formations but stragglers got devoured. Pretty much the way it was~ The air launch was great, for both sides~ high altitude action without the usual tedium of spending 1/3 of the frame climbing to target, a little gamey but I like it. It works well in the game Krusty, don't worry.
Way to go Shifty :salute Looking forward! Should be some great screenies and films from this one, too bad we don't have con trails to complete the effect.
~Seadog36
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/62d_Fighter_Squadron_P-47_Thunderbolts_-_1944a.jpg)
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Couple problems for me are the no fly zones (which seem to be in fashion for the axis) and the 110s must carry rockets. Not only must they carry rockets but they must also make their first attack run with rockets. In my opinion it is not very fun to force people to fight a certain way.
No fly zones promote allies running loitering behind their arbitrary no fly zone and then coming back when you turn off. I think there should be a no fly zone at the start for people to climb and get organized and they should not be there after say 20-30 minutes.
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No fly zones promote allies running loitering behind their arbitrary no fly zone and then coming back when you turn off. I think there should be a no fly zone at the start for people to climb and get organized and they should not be there after say 20-30 minutes.
kilo2~
From my experience, all of the action took place far far into axis territory over axis targets. That is why the air spawn works so well~ Its a serious schlep for allies to rtb.
~Seadog36
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kilo2~
From my experience, all of the action took place far far into axis territory over axis targets. That is why the air spawn works so well~ Its a serious schlep for allies to rtb.
~Seadog36
Ill remember you said that.
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Couple problems for me are the no fly zones (which seem to be in fashion for the axis) and the 110s must carry rockets. Not only must they carry rockets but they must also make their first attack run with rockets. In my opinion it is not very fun to force people to fight a certain way.
Yeah I felt the same way flying a torpedo plane during this last PTO. What's the point of having them load rockets if they are not going to use them?
No fly zones promote allies running loitering behind their arbitrary no fly zone and then coming back when you turn off. I think there should be a no fly zone at the start for people to climb and get organized and they should not be there after say 20-30 minutes.
On this map not having a no fly zone promotes Axis vulching of bombers in the landing pattern. I have no doubt with the caliber of Axis FSO squads the Allies will have their hands full. If after frame one there's an appearance of the setup being pro Allied or pro Axis I will make adjustments
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The setup begs for a decent 43/44 time frame German bomber.......... Hence the restrictions on the 110's ( just a hunch ) I personally have no opinion on the no fly zone, but I suspect I know why it is there, and I am not sure it has that much to do with the air starts.
I do think, given what we have to work with, it seems a good setup. Granted ammo load outs, air starts, and planes used may be a bit off, but as a package........ I think it is pretty well within reason. I also suspect if the first frame shows otherwise, that the CM's as they usually do, will make some tweaks.
In a perfect FSO world, we would have every plane used in WWII available to us...... I think that is probably the biggest obstacle CM's have to overcome usually ( just my thoughts anyways) We want realism, with that I agree. But IMO it is only workable to a point unfortunately
Guess I should have read Shifty's post above, before I hit the post button a second time.... Oh well :D
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Yeah I felt the same way flying a torpedo plane during this last PTO. What's the point of having them load rockets if they are not going to use them?
On this map not having a no fly zone promotes Axis vulching of bombers in the landing pattern. I have no doubt with the caliber of Axis FSO squads the Allies will have their hands full. If after frame one there's an appearance of the setup being pro Allied or pro Axis I will make adjustments
Yeah but look at the map no fly zone is 2 sectors from our bases they can hit us and be back behind us before we could organize a counter attack.
I can see how the bombers need a place to land but 6 sectors of no fly zone?
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Yeah but look at the map no fly zone is 2 sectors from our bases they can hit us and be back behind us before we could organize a counter attack.
I can see how the bombers need a place to land but 6 sectors of no fly zone?
Kilo I decide the targets before each frame. Both sides will know what targets are going to be before the frame begins. Giving defenders as well as attackers ample time to be in position to carry out their mission. I thought long and hard on the fuel loads for the USAAF fighters. At one point I was looking at 50% and DTs. The problem with this is if the escorts have to return too early because of lack of fuel, then it hurts both sides as far as getting a chance to fight. I doubt very seriously you want to be flying around with nothing to do after T-60 because you've killed all the bombers in your sector and the American fighters are all long gone because of fuel. I'm doing my best to recreate this point in WWII History and I'm trying to make this as fun as possible for everyone that flys in it. I assure you I'm not out to screw the Luftwaffe squads.
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Kilo I decide the targets before each frame. Both sides will know what targets are going to be before the frame begins. Giving defenders as well as attackers ample time to be in position to carry out their mission. I thought long and hard on the fuel loads for the USAAF fighters. At one point I was looking at 50% and DTs. The problem with this is if the escorts have to return too early because of lack of fuel, then it hurts both sides as far as getting a chance to fight. I doubt very seriously you want to be flying around with nothing to do after T-60 because you've killed all the bombers in your sector and the American fighters are all long gone because of fuel. I'm doing my best to recreate this point in WWII History and I'm trying to make this as fun as possible for everyone that flys in it. I assure you I'm not out to screw the Luftwaffe squads.
It not a personal attack on your setup or FSO.
I like the setup but I don't like no fly zones. Maybe its unfair to bring it up on this particular setup because its kind of built up frustration with the whole no fly zone practice. While I see why they are needed sometimes I feel they are often heavy handed and overall promote things that are against the overall spirit of FSO.
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I have no doubt with the caliber of Axis FSO squads the Allies will have their hands full.
Thanks.
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I have a dream, that one Friday the bombers will bomb and die. The escorts will run 2 sectors to no fly zone.
No fly zone prohibits Axis victory. Dont be surprised if no one is flying at T+75. I for one am not going to waste my time chilling on no fly zone staring at Jugs who dare not cross it.
Pity, such an awesome setup to see washed down the drain by no fly zones.
Remember Dont Go Feet Wet...errr I mean...Enemy Coast Ahead?
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I have a dream, that one Friday the bombers will bomb and die. The escorts will run 2 sectors to no fly zone.
No fly zone prohibits Axis victory. Dont be surprised if no one is flying at T+75. I for one am not going to waste my time chilling on no fly zone staring at Jugs who dare not cross it.
Pity, such an awesome setup to see washed down the drain by no fly zones.
Remember Dont Go Feet Wet...errr I mean...Enemy Coast Ahead?
Maybe KN would like to fly Allied this setup ?
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Push the no flys back west....Say 2 sectors out from active bases, keep axis targets as far east as possible, and only give them rearm and refuel at select bases..... Drops down the no fly, keeps escorts honest ( though I have yet to see a whole flight run, but who am I ) and gives the LW ample opportunity to score kills...
Just a silly thought :huh
Shifty, somehow I don't see KN flying allied :bolt:
^^ fixed...... Yes I am :old:
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Maybe KN would like to fly Allied this setup ?
Never. We are used to disadvantages and enjoy winning despite of them. Worst that could happen is we lose with no fly zones. I would be embarrassed to lose this if I was Allied.
My only complaint is same as Krusty's and Sukov's. The limitations promote behavior that is against the "spirit of FSO."
Plus, if I liked cakewalks I would've went with the squad name "Skill-less twits in Fast Rides." :P
At any rate, my time in this thread is over, I shall see you Allies at 417k Friday night <S>
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Squire, somehow I don't see KN flying allied :bolt:
Squire doesn't set the sides for this setup.
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The 132 DW Bomber Group put in for Allied and we welcome all Axis squads to try shooting us down in our B-17's and B-24's. We drop our bombs and man our guns itching for some Iron Cross trophys painted on our birds.
:salute
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Plus, if I liked cakewalks I would've went with the squad name "Skill-less twits in Fast Rides." :P
Like "Twits in Run90's or Run Oh 9's" :D
The 132 DW Bomber Group put in for Allied and we welcome all Axis squads to try shooting us down in our B-17's and B-24's. We drop our bombs and man our guns itching for some Iron Cross trophys painted on our birds.
:salute
I love watching herr smokey streaks falling away in flames kaput behind the 17s and 24s~
You can't have setups with low B-25C getting wiped out by cannon rides all the time.
So much crying from defenders with 20 and 30mm rides who just have to ping their targets and glide back to their base and wait for their kills. They don't have to travel back 5 sectors to land with their oil/fuel leaks and pws.
I've never seen allies cowering behind a no fly zone, that's ridiculous.
~It's a good setup, well though out, and both sides will be able to get their swipes in. Your gunna love it!
~Seadog36
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BTW, I haven't seen you around on Friday nights, you taking a break?
Not intentionally... Life gets in the way. Worked on the AH Skins catalog, working on a number of skins, broke 2 levers off my throttle quad, was waiting (in vain) for replacements from this guy on the CH Hangar forums, but never got them, etc...
Tons of little things conspiring to keep me away, etc...
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I have a dream, that one Friday the bombers will bomb and die. The escorts will run 2 sectors to no fly zone.
No fly zone prohibits Axis victory. Dont be surprised if no one is flying at T+75. I for one am not going to waste my time chilling on no fly zone staring at Jugs who dare not cross it.
Pity, such an awesome setup to see washed down the drain by no fly zones.
Remember Dont Go Feet Wet...errr I mean...Enemy Coast Ahead?
Maybe we can make the bombers off limits in the no fly zone but escorts are fair game?
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Why not make it a no fly zone only during certain time frames? For example the no fly zone is active only before T+30 and after t+90, this would keep axis from bouncing the bombers too early and also allow bombers to land towards the end of the frame without fear of vulching. Any axis planes in the no fly zone area once it becomes active again at the end of the frame are required to break off attacks and exit the no fly zone by the shortest route. Allied planes would not be allowed to engage an axis plane attempting to leave the active no fly zone until the axis plane has crossed out of the no fly zone. The event CM already sends out "T+xx" messages why not add on the text "no fly zone active or inactive"? Just an idea I had for a compromise and thought I would share.
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How about a neutral zone?
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How about a neutral zone?
Can't trust the Romulans.
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How about a neutral zone?
Europe, the final battle, these are the bombing raids of the 8th Air Force. It's mission, to seek out and destroy all Axis targets. To bravely go where no cartoon plane has gone before.
Cue the tune and watch a B-17 flash in front of the camera at great speeds at different directions.
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He's got warp capability! I was on his six and then all of a sudden he was on mine! :bolt:
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Yippee! Spin'em Up!
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/oneillflt.jpg)
that picture is right Out of Playboy isn't it!!!! cause it is SEXY!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
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that picture is right Out of Playboy isn't it!!!! cause it is SEXY!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x :x
A man with refined taste and a keen eye for true beauty has spoken...
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/un-tbar.jpg)(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/AnnK.jpg)
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n83/Urbanflotsom1/alber_.jpg)