Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 02:07:24 PM

Title: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 02:07:24 PM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish




Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Moelders on February 22, 2012, 02:21:49 PM
Wikipedia, the best source of information--too bad anyone can change it.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 02:24:42 PM
Wikipedia, the best source of information--too bad anyone can change it.

lol yeap and especially to bad for those that are to lazy to do more research to confirm or deny what they have read.... or in other words VERIFY that the info is accurate
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Rob52240 on February 22, 2012, 02:25:16 PM
At least the idiots haven't decided that attacking from the 6 position isn't unethical because it's attacking the "undefended" portion of their airplane.

I'm always looking to improve my acm skills and appreciate your good work.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: coombz on February 22, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
coming soon from SDJackyl  - "Forum Combat Training for idiots"  
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: LCADolby on February 22, 2012, 02:38:46 PM
coming soon from SDJackyl  - "Forum Combat Training for idiots"  
It's obviously a 'By Example' kind of training.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: perdue3 on February 22, 2012, 03:38:24 PM
The fact that maneuvering is spelled incorrectly in your source kinda kills you're cool story.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: SmokinLoon on February 22, 2012, 03:43:57 PM
Someone new to the forums who shoots from the hip.  Interesting. 



 :rofl
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 04:02:10 PM
Someone new to the forums who shoots from the hip.  Interesting.  



 :rofl

ok wise guy, pull up any "VALID" information that denys what the meaning of it all is???

maybe a ACM that is a HO shot????????//.......LMAO!!

or any other discussion presented by the article that is not currently used in EVERY nations military force that has aircraft whether it be winged or not winged.  ????

ummmm guess that will be when hell freezes over !! :devil


and that goes for u 2 PERDUE !!!!
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Moelders on February 22, 2012, 04:23:07 PM
ok wise guy, pull up any "VALID" information that denys what the meaning of it all is???

maybe a ACM that is a HO shot????????//.......LMAO!!

or any other discussion presented by the article that is not currently used in EVERY nations military force that has aircraft whether it be winged or not winged.  ????

ummmm guess that will be when hell freezes over !! :devil


and that goes for u 2 PERDUE !!!!

What are your qualifications to state the above?  Curious minds want to know how you know what every military force in the world does and does not teach.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Infidelz on February 22, 2012, 04:53:02 PM
who are you>?

Infidelz
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 04:56:22 PM
What are your qualifications to state the above?  Curious minds want to know how you know what every military force in the world does and does not teach.

 Really no sense in it but for ur curiousty !! Ex TM torpeomans m8 for the USN, Ex aircraft structures mechanic for Timco where I worked on an experimental airframe refabrication on Boeing 767's, where if u REALLY WANT TO LOOK LIKE AN DOUHNUT HOLE, I can actually put u intouch with a HR rep at the company that can verify it !! but ofcourse if u want it that bad U will probably REALLY have to ask for her forgiveness just so u dont sound like a "___"

Listen bud I flew my first plane at 12 years old, whether u WISH to accept that sometimes there ARE ppl qualified to speak on a WIDE varielty of subjects that u might not be as educated as u think u are, is up to U, but beware that closed mindedness is the shield to hide low intelligence !

<salute>


and just so u know u would be VERY surprised at all the imformation at ur fingertips if u really truely wanted to make urself a better person and atleast educate ur self on things that u find possibly interesting.

NO OFFENSE meant, but I have always believed that if u do not know details of a subject to back up what things u might say by involving the rest of humanity into a social enterprise then PLEASE stay away from me.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 05:11:14 PM
At least the idiots haven't decided that attacking from the 6 position isn't unethical because it's attacking the "undefended" portion of their airplane.

I'm always looking to improve my acm skills and appreciate your good work.
:salute
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: sunfan1121 on February 22, 2012, 05:13:28 PM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish





What makes you such a expert?
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 05:21:43 PM
What makes you such a expert?

lol Im done <S>
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Zoney on February 22, 2012, 05:28:36 PM
Geez Sunsfan, don't you feel like an idiot now eh?  Maybe you didn't see that he was a torpedoman in the navy and he worked on super secret experimental airframe modifications.

Obviously that would give you all the ACM training you could ever want, duh.

You guys are so dumb.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Moelders on February 22, 2012, 06:14:15 PM
Geez Sunsfan, don't you feel like an idiot now eh?  Maybe you didn't see that he was a torpedoman in the navy and he worked on super secret experimental airframe modifications.

Obviously that would give you all the ACM training you could ever want, duh.

You guys are so dumb.

I believe the term was "torpeomans" and his qualifications are obviously much better suited to the subject than an active duty USAF officer's...

I bow down to your wisdom, Sir.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
I believe the term was "torpeoman," and his qualifications are obviously much better suited to the subject than an active duty USAF officer....

I bow down to your wisdom, Sir.

lol then u of all ppl should not be defending the stink "YOUR thumb where MY sun dont shine" mentallity
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: jimbo71 on February 22, 2012, 06:20:53 PM
I believe the term was "torpeoman," and his qualifications are obviously much better suited to the subject than an active duty USAF officer....

I bow down to your wisdom, Sir.

No he said he was an Ex Torpedoman's Mate.... he's under the actual Torpedoman (polishing his torpedo)
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: BigR on February 22, 2012, 06:22:38 PM
Really no sense in it but for ur curiousty !! Ex TM torpeomans m8 for the USN, Ex aircraft structures mechanic for Timco where I worked on an experimental airframe refabrication on Boeing 767's, where if u REALLY WANT TO LOOK LIKE AN DOUHNUT HOLE, I can actually put u intouch with a HR rep at the company that can verify it !! but ofcourse if u want it that bad U will probably REALLY have to ask for her forgiveness just so u dont sound like a "___"

Listen bud I flew my first plane at 12 years old, whether u WISH to accept that sometimes there ARE ppl qualified to speak on a WIDE varielty of subjects that u might not be as educated as u think u are, is up to U, but beware that closed mindedness is the shield to hide low intelligence !

<salute>


and just so u know u would be VERY surprised at all the imformation at ur fingertips if u really truely wanted to make urself a better person and atleast educate ur self on things that u find possibly interesting.

NO OFFENSE meant, but I have always believed that if u do not know details of a subject to back up what things u might say by involving the rest of humanity into a social enterprise then PLEASE stay away from me.


1. If you are going to insult someone's intelligence, the least you could do is use real words, and spell correctly.

2. ACM does allow for the HO. If a pilot decides that's his best chance of winning, he will MANEUVER his plane into that position to fire. Now, in the context of a game like Aces High (a game of skill vs skill), HOs are usually a lame tactic, but in real life they were used all the time.

3. Quoting a Wikipedia article as your main argument is so out there retarded that I question almost everything you say. Just because it says the word "behind" doesn't exclude the possibility of a frontal attack.

4. You flew your first plane at 12? Is that when the CIA recruited you to fly F16s?
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: 68ZooM on February 22, 2012, 06:26:51 PM

4. You flew your first plane at 12? Is that when the CIA recruited you to fly F16s?

Honestly i think it's when he finally figured out the folding directions for making a paper airplane.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DrJackyI on February 22, 2012, 06:30:23 PM
I believe the term was "torpeomans" and his qualifications are obviously much better suited to the subject than an active duty USAF officer's...

I bow down to your wisdom, Sir.

Funny ...  I got a squadie who active USAF also.... seems to me that he can corroberate everything that I have researched and tell me alot more that i didnt know either......um so whats ur point !!!!!!!
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Moelders on February 22, 2012, 06:33:48 PM
Funny ...  I got a squadie who active USAF also.... seems to me that he can corroberate everything that I have researched and tell me alot more that i didnt know either......um so whats ur point !!!!!!!

Good day to you Sir, I believe you have made "my point," by simply posting in the manner that you are.

-- But to reiterate...wikipedia makes for a toejamty source.
-- Your background does not support the statements that you made.
-- Spell check is your friend.
-- And I am bored, and am enjoying clubbing BBS stupidity.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Melvin on February 22, 2012, 06:34:44 PM

 sentances



This was the last straw. No more needed to be read.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Babalonian on February 22, 2012, 07:00:35 PM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish






Trying to bring civilization and culture to the primitive natives has been tried before you, and by greater nations and armies.


lol Im done <S>

K.  Thanks for trying to help.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Zoney on February 22, 2012, 07:03:37 PM
-- And I am bored, and am enjoying clubbing BBS stupidity.


I'm witchawifdat homey mchomestyle.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Simon on February 22, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
For the record Jackyl, you did suck at Fighter Ace...  :bolt:
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: JOACH1M on February 22, 2012, 07:27:16 PM
So I have been performing incorrects ACM's all along... :confused:
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Masherbrum on February 22, 2012, 08:21:47 PM
Really no sense in it but for ur curiousty !! Ex TM torpeomans m8 for the USN, Ex aircraft structures mechanic for Timco where I worked on an experimental airframe refabrication on Boeing 767's, where if u REALLY WANT TO LOOK LIKE AN DOUHNUT HOLE, I can actually put u intouch with a HR rep at the company that can verify it !! but ofcourse if u want it that bad U will probably REALLY have to ask for her forgiveness just so u dont sound like a "___"

Listen bud I flew my first plane at 12 years old, whether u WISH to accept that sometimes there ARE ppl qualified to speak on a WIDE varielty of subjects that u might not be as educated as u think u are, is up to U, but beware that closed mindedness is the shield to hide low intelligence !

<salute>


and just so u know u would be VERY surprised at all the imformation at ur fingertips if u really truely wanted to make urself a better person and atleast educate ur self on things that u find possibly interesting.

NO OFFENSE meant, but I have always believed that if u do not know details of a subject to back up what things u might say by involving the rest of humanity into a social enterprise then PLEASE stay away from me.

Say Hi to Adonai for me.   I bet you were his cabana boy at Miramar. 
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: M0nkey_Man on February 22, 2012, 08:28:16 PM
(http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/i-like-turtles.jpg)
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: guncrasher on February 23, 2012, 03:26:27 AM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish






well here are the basic rules again.

1.Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.

2.Always continue with an attack you have begun.

3.Only fire at close range, and then only when the opponent is properly in your sights
[/b].  that means from any angle.

4.You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

5.In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

6.If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.

7. When over the enemy's lines, never forget your own line of retreat.

8. Tip for Squadrons: In principle, it is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent.


they were set over 100 years ago.  they're being taught still to this day.  here's a brief description of them too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke

and here is who came up with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Boelcke

and for the record the only reason you shouldnt ho is because the enemy can also shoot back at you, it's just that simple.


semp
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Rino on February 23, 2012, 03:30:07 AM
     I look forward to the next "For Idiots" topic by the OP.  The last two have been very entertaining  :D
It's very educational too, I never knew that being active duty military made you an expert on all things ACM.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: VonMessa on February 23, 2012, 03:37:52 AM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish






Ohhhhhhh Ohhhhhhh, a BBS ACM lesson from der Experten  :x :x
















Will there be a test?  :noid
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Tom5572 on February 23, 2012, 06:21:16 AM
I do not know if I should laugh or cry.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: ozrocker on February 23, 2012, 07:22:10 AM
Guess Mr Shaw should take notes.


                                                                                                                               :cheers: Oz
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Moelders on February 23, 2012, 09:44:27 AM
    I look forward to the next "For Idiots" topic by the OP.  The last two have been very entertaining  :D
It's very educational too, I never knew that being active duty military made you an expert on all things ACM.


It does if your job entails a requirement for in-depth knowledge of such, otherwise you are correct that there is little relevance to active duty military and ACM knowledge.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Vinkman on February 23, 2012, 09:50:20 AM
So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.
LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish


Hmm. You would have been much better served to wait for ain incorrect post referencing ACM and specificly correct it, than to make this blaket post that everyone is a moron except you because you read Wikipedia, so everyone else should do same so they can catch up.

No one will get past the arrogance of you post to see to what ever deeper problem you are trying to address.  :salute
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Black Jack on February 23, 2012, 10:31:32 AM
I watched TOP GUNS... once. I know everything there is to know about ACM.   :D
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Wiley on February 23, 2012, 10:35:22 AM
I watched TOP GUNS... once. I know everything there is to know about ACM.   :D

Pfft.  Top Gun is fine for jet era, and some of it does apply, but to learn about prop plane ACM, you really need to watch Iron Eagle III.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Slate on February 23, 2012, 11:21:10 AM
Pfft.  Top Gun is fine for jet era, and some of it does apply, but to learn about prop plane ACM, you really need to watch Iron Eagle III.

Wiley.

Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too.  :O
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Rino on February 23, 2012, 11:25:43 AM
     Top Gun "stratergery"...Hit the brakes and let em fly right by!  :rofl
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Rino on February 23, 2012, 11:26:50 AM
Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too.  :O

     If I'm ever fighting a T-6 with a Corsair, I'll be sure and use their moves  :D
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: VonMessa on February 23, 2012, 03:06:17 PM
Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too.  :O

Also lets us know that you are an  :old:

 :D
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Mace2004 on February 23, 2012, 04:14:31 PM
The Wiki article is actually good if pretty basic information.  I say "basic" because probably every single paragraph in the article could easily be expanded into a whole chapter (or two, or three) in order to cover all the ifs, ands, and buts about the subject. Also, take a look at the references and you'll see a lot of Shaw which certainly isn't a bad place to start, after all, Shaw basically used the TOPGUN manual as his source. 

The problem, and what leads to lots of discussion, is figuring out what all this stuff really means to someone trying to apply the information in the real (or virtual) world. 
I suppose the real issue here is the OP's attitude and assumptions which makes for a pretty unattractive argument to convince anyone to actually look at the article or stimulate an intelligent conversation on the subject.

BTW, not to be a "know it all" but, since the OP seems to be all hot and bothered by accuracy, it's just ACM not "ACM's" with the apostrophe s.  Never, ever use the term ACM's.  Same with BMF...no apostrophe s.  Nothing personal, just trying to rid the forum world of some gibberish.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Badboy on February 23, 2012, 05:04:58 PM
Mace

That made me smile... Thanks!

Badboy
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: prono on February 24, 2012, 02:26:56 PM
Enough theory   :lol
Is it possible to do "Kulbit" in AH?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulbit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALt3m3Kkhw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ALt3m3Kkhw)
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Babalonian on February 24, 2012, 07:16:10 PM
Also lets us know that you are an  :old:

 :D

What if Snoopy signed off our basic and Tojo thevanced?
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 24, 2012, 07:23:40 PM
Say Hi to Adonai for me.   I bet you were his cabana boy at Miramar. 

LOL!

ack-ack
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: DangerousGame on February 26, 2012, 12:27:03 AM
Dont be done Im making popcorn
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Der Jude on February 26, 2012, 07:32:03 AM
The fact that maneuvering is spelled incorrectly in your source kinda kills you're cool story.

liked the part about richtofen though
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: Rich52 on February 26, 2012, 11:25:30 AM
     I look forward to the next "For Idiots" topic by the OP.  The last two have been very entertaining  :D
It's very educational too, I never knew that being active duty military made you an expert on all things ACM.


Well it taught me boozing, 'ho chasing, card playing, and sneaking in the occasional guard duty jack for tension relief.
Title: Re: Air Combat Training for idiots
Post by: icepac on February 26, 2012, 11:48:03 AM
LOL.......I can't wait to shoot down the original poster with a I16 from an altitude disadvantage and then school him on aero engines, airplane maintenance and restoration.