Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Chalenge on February 28, 2012, 03:17:59 PM

Title: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on February 28, 2012, 03:17:59 PM
W8b will be out tomorrow. Is anyone testing it and does anyone have touchscreen all ready to go for the test?
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 28, 2012, 04:46:48 PM
Gamers should stay away from W8 beta.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on February 28, 2012, 05:16:45 PM
Why do you say that? Since no one has even seen it yet I mean.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Noir on February 28, 2012, 06:33:57 PM
well I have a drawing (also touch) pad and maybe I can get a laptop to test it on  :) I wouldn't mind a dl link, I do have a MS MCP live account  :banana:
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: TequilaChaser on February 28, 2012, 08:30:11 PM
Gamers should stay away from W8 beta.

ack-ack

from some reviews I have read in the past several months, they have claimed that  Gamers should stay with Win 7 ( or Vista or XP )  and avoid trying to game with windows 8 at this current time

I have fiddled with a developers version of windows 8 around the last part of last year, and I was not impressed with it at the time

YMMV

TC
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Butcher on February 28, 2012, 08:40:04 PM
from some reviews I have read in the past several months, they have claimed that  Gamers should stay with Win 7 ( or Vista or XP )  and avoid trying to game with windows 8 at this current time

I have fiddled with a developers version of windows 8 around the last part of last year, and I was not impressed with it at the time

YMMV

TC

I've had no problems with Windows 7 compared to Vista, even run some old style games in where Vista gave me crap about it (Panzer General). There is no comparison to Vista to Windows 7, I believe Ray Ozzie has done his job transforming Microsoft from a complete wreck of Vista to Windows 7. I feel pretty bad I already upgraded to Windows 7 after years of being stuck with Vista.

My only problem with Vista is the fact that after years of having it on my laptop (without any formats or major problems) I believe Vista ate up all my hard drive space. I started with 160gb, and rarely ever installed games on the C Drive, I had a storage drive to download and install all programs/games into, which was a 180GB drive as well, however over the years between updates and everything else, it just slaughtered my C Drive down to 10GB.

Not sure exactly what ate up all that, I plan to format and fresh install the laptop so I can use it for netflick viewing.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: katanaso on February 28, 2012, 09:01:08 PM
We've played with Windows 8 for some time now at work, on test machines.  It's easy to see how it's meant for touchpads, touchscreens, etc.  It's also a pain in the bellybutton to navigate until you realize it's like Windows 7 with a fancy GUI for a cover.

There's no chance that we'll ever go to it, but we wanted to see what it looked like.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on February 28, 2012, 10:23:52 PM
I already figured out how to make W8 look like W7 so its easier to work with. Now the question is... does W8 do anything new? Is something anyone must have?
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Ack-Ack on February 29, 2012, 03:03:16 AM
from some reviews I have read in the past several months, they have claimed that  Gamers should stay with Win 7 ( or Vista or XP )  and avoid trying to game with windows 8 at this current time

I have fiddled with a developers version of windows 8 around the last part of last year, and I was not impressed with it at the time

YMMV

TC

According to some of our devs at my work, DirectX performance in Windows 8 is isn't as good as in Windows 7.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 29, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
My only problem with Vista is the fact that after years of having it on my laptop (without any formats or major problems) I believe Vista ate up all my hard drive space. I started with 160gb, and rarely ever installed games on the C Drive, I had a storage drive to download and install all programs/games into, which was a 180GB drive as well, however over the years between updates and everything else, it just slaughtered my C Drive down to 10GB.

System restore, file shadow copy, service packs and updates that are left on disk... all that mounts up. There are many instructions on the internet how to free disk space clearing up useless crap.

Vista/7 creates a backup of each system file that gets modified - it eats gigabytes after gigabytes after using it for years.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Krusty on March 01, 2012, 09:01:54 AM
Win8 is an infrastructure change for MS. Not all that many actual features. It's an attempt to make all phones, mobile devices, and PCs use the exact same OS (not a mobile variation of it like Windows CE -- the same OS).

Of note, however, is that to accomodate phones and the app installation, it means that Win8 can remotely track, install, and uninstall entire programs without your consent or your permission. Sure, they may say that's not what it's for NOW... but with that kind of big-brother loophole built in? I can't help but wonder how long it will take for them to start changing their EULA and their policies to let them do anything they want at the behest of the RIAA or the MPAA or the dept of Homeland Security.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 01, 2012, 02:25:51 PM
Win8 is an infrastructure change for MS. Not all that many actual features. It's an attempt to make all phones, mobile devices, and PCs use the exact same OS (not a mobile variation of it like Windows CE -- the same OS).

Of note, however, is that to accomodate phones and the app installation, it means that Win8 can remotely track, install, and uninstall entire programs without your consent or your permission. Sure, they may say that's not what it's for NOW... but with that kind of big-brother loophole built in? I can't help but wonder how long it will take for them to start changing their EULA and their policies to let them do anything they want at the behest of the RIAA or the MPAA or the dept of Homeland Security.

There's always free linux that gets better and better every year. MS is destroying its own business.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Wagger on March 01, 2012, 06:17:17 PM
Windows 8?  Hell I just bought Windows 7 last summer.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Gatr on March 03, 2012, 08:37:35 AM
Windows 8 beta for me... runs smooth and better frame rates....
Salute Gatr
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Butcher on March 03, 2012, 09:14:56 AM
Windows 8 beta for me... runs smooth and better frame rates....
Salute Gatr

I just installed 8 beta on my old laptop, for older machines it practically does nothing different except you have to shut down all the fancy GUI to maintain the same frame rates I was getting in vista, I don't notice any performance difference
or anything out of the ordinary that would jump from Windows 7 to 8.

Honestly if it came down to it, I would probably go Linux on my old laptop - I had Linux Mint on my netbook and it ran wonders for years, I might consider it for the laptop, lord knows its gaming days are far over.

Most likely I won't, there's going to be hardware issues out the ass, and I really don't have time to sort them out.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Gatr on March 03, 2012, 10:22:50 AM
Yeah on the hardware probs on older stuff... that is just a big fat no as far as 8 is concerned...   
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Skuzzy on March 04, 2012, 06:59:24 AM
According to some of our devs at my work, DirectX performance in Windows 8 is isn't as good as in Windows 7.

And we concur.  Performance will suffer as compared to Windows 7.

If you are running Windows XP and are thinking about an upgrade, grab Windows 7.  Windows 8 is really a bloatfest.

Windows 8 beta for me... runs smooth and better frame rates....
Salute Gatr

If you are getting better frame rates than with Windows 7 or Windows XP, then you had something seriously wrong with your previous installations.  There is absolutely no way a clean Windows 8 installation will run anything faster than a clean installation of Windows XP and/or Windows 7.  No way at all.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Gatr on March 04, 2012, 11:26:45 AM
Thanks Skuzzzzzzz I think the key for me on 8 was my 7 install was way old and full of CRAP and my 8 install was clean :)…
thx man
gatr
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Delirium on March 04, 2012, 11:36:58 AM
Every time a new version of Windows comes out, I have profound feelings of deja-vu.

1. The new OS is bloated compared to the old.

2. The new OS is another $100+ and older OS owners cannot upgrade for free.

3. Microcost gives the new OS a great exterior and lauds the new OS as reinventing the wheel.

4. The new OS always has some surprise that makes older hardware or software useless (I have fond memories of being unable to program my gameport joysticks, way back when).
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 04, 2012, 12:09:20 PM
Every time a new version of Windows comes out, I have profound feelings of deja-vu.

1. The new OS is bloated compared to the old.

2. The new OS is another $100+ and older OS owners cannot upgrade for free.

3. Microcost gives the new OS a great exterior and lauds the new OS as reinventing the wheel.

4. The new OS always has some surprise that makes older hardware or software useless (I have fond memories of being unable to program my gameport joysticks, way back when).

We have to hope the linux guys will get their act together sometime and produce something worthwhile. You can already run AH2 in linux but performance is too poor for real gameplay.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Bizman on March 04, 2012, 12:49:50 PM
Every time a new version of Windows comes out, I have profound feelings of deja-vu.

1. The new OS is bloated compared to the old.

2. The new OS is another $100+ and older OS owners cannot upgrade for free.

3. Microcost gives the new OS a great exterior and lauds the new OS as reinventing the wheel.

4. The new OS always has some surprise that makes older hardware or software useless (I have fond memories of being unable to program my gameport joysticks, way back when).

(http://www.telemail.fi/petrin.atk-apu/square.gif)

Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on March 04, 2012, 11:50:15 PM
The problem we are all faced with is that this is an inevitable change in Windows. Of course the company is going to mainstream the development of Windows at the same time they embrace more and more devices. The obvious advantage Apple has is that their OS works on their computers and not computers and cell phones and tablets and so on and so on. Like Skuzzy points out MS has always embraced the bloat as an evil they must live with in order to make things easier in the end. MS also knows that millions of people will be really upset by this change but also inevitably someone is going to upset at every turn. So it doesnt matter if they care or not (I suspect they dont) this is the direction they are taking.

So... stop buying Windows until the product funnels down to something useful. Maybe two or three gens and things will smooth out.

@Skuzzy: I feel your pain. You know you are going to have to have a W8 system or you cant support them... right? With the job market like it is I think I have to learn this version also or risk looking lost at future job interviews... like thats ever going to happen.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 04, 2012, 11:59:41 PM
The obvious advantage Apple has is that their OS works on their computers and not computers and cell phones and tablets and so on and so on.

This is not entirely true as IOS is based on OSX and there's nothing stopping people from installing OSX to any regular PC hardware (Hackintosh) except Apple policies. Hardware support is surprisingly good given you use similar brands Apple uses.

Quote
With the job market like it is I think I have to learn this version also or risk looking lost at future job interviews... like thats ever going to happen.

You never know. With major companies laying off 6000 at once nobody can have any 'job security'. The only ones that can control their faith are the self employed or small business owners like me. And even we face the possibility of the business drying out.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on March 05, 2012, 01:48:48 AM
I meant they are not trying to reach out to tablets and cell phones with the same OS. MS acts like they are trying to create something to do everything and the swiss army knife of hardware can only get bloated not slimmer with time.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Skuzzy on March 05, 2012, 06:19:25 AM
<snip>@Skuzzy: I feel your pain. You know you are going to have to have a W8 system or you cant support them... right? With the job market like it is I think I have to learn this version also or risk looking lost at future job interviews... like thats ever going to happen.

As part of the job/career path I have to be pretty knowledgeable about all the Microsoft OS's.  It does not mean I have to like them.

I feel for the actual coders, more than anyone else.  They have to figure out how to work around all the stupid compatibility issues between the various OS's.  Then there are the different design choices which introduce different problems from one OS to another.

If Microsoft makes it a habit to introduce a new OS every couple of years,....retirement is not going to come soon enough for me. :)

Windows 8 introduces a new level of control for Microsoft, over all computers.  I am not sure which is worse.  Microsoft taking more control over your computer or people being okay with it.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 05, 2012, 07:38:03 AM
I meant they are not trying to reach out to tablets and cell phones with the same OS. MS acts like they are trying to create something to do everything and the swiss army knife of hardware can only get bloated not slimmer with time.

They're not? Have you read news about the new Mountain Lion OSX? They're repeating what MS did, although probably better. It's going to be an iOS like desktop for macs. I'm not going to do THAT upgrade for sure :)
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 05, 2012, 07:40:03 AM
Windows 8 introduces a new level of control for Microsoft, over all computers.  I am not sure which is worse.  Microsoft taking more control over your computer or people being okay with it.

Luckily there are free and open alternatives around. Too bad gaming companies have so scarse support for linux. If games would run on linux I would spend no more seconds on windows at home.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Skuzzy on March 05, 2012, 08:50:54 AM
Luckily there are free and open alternatives around. Too bad gaming companies have so scarse support for linux. If games would run on linux I would spend no more seconds on windows at home.

It is too bad all the various Linux distros make it so difficult for game companies to support Linux.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: VonMessa on March 05, 2012, 09:27:37 AM
As part of the job/career path I have to be pretty knowledgeable about all the Microsoft OS's.  It does not mean I have to like them.

I feel for the actual coders, more than anyone else.  They have to figure out how to work around all the stupid compatibility issues between the various OS's.  Then there are the different design choices which introduce different problems from one OS to another.

If Microsoft makes it a habit to introduce a new OS every couple of years,....retirement is not going to come soon enough for me. :)

Windows 8 introduces a new level of control for Microsoft, over all computers.  I am not sure which is worse.  Microsoft taking more control over your computer or people being okay with it.

This makes me a little uncomfortable, also.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on March 05, 2012, 11:52:59 AM
It is too bad all the various Linux distros make it so difficult for game companies to support Linux.

According to the linux supporters linux distros shouldn't make any difference in supporting software. I have been in the same kind of understanding about this as you Skuzzy. Could you give me some practical examples, I'd love to bash the fundamentalist supporters on a couple bulletin boards ;)

I have already cursed the amount of distros myself when trying to find problem solutions and programs never seem to work the same between them.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Chalenge on March 05, 2012, 12:48:48 PM
MS also has Linux running under their Virtual PC technology now so you can expect more headaches I guess. Im not sure why anyone would want to do that. I use legacy Windows versions so I can make use of older hardware like wide format printers or scanners. I dont see Linux as an advantage.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Skuzzy on March 05, 2012, 01:31:21 PM
According to the linux supporters linux distros shouldn't make any difference in supporting software. I have been in the same kind of understanding about this as you Skuzzy. Could you give me some practical examples, I'd love to bash the fundamentalist supporters on a couple bulletin boards ;)

I have already cursed the amount of distros myself when trying to find problem solutions and programs never seem to work the same between them.

Red Hat has one way of installing software, Ubuntu has another way, Slackware yet another and so on.
3D graphic support is spotty, at best.  Take the three I mentioned above.  Tell me how to detect any given set of input devices and what the capabilities are.  I can tell you, Slackware does not have ANY ability to do that.

I could go on and on.  The Linux developer community, at large, is really good at providing technical support for most hardware platforms, but generally are poor at providing simple end user type of functionality to get the hardware working.  What about audio support?  Where is the 3D API for audio?  I know most Linux distros have very limited support for a very limited set of sound cards.

What compiler is standard?  What dev tools are standard?  You want Windows programmers to work on Linux, then you have to provide GUI stuff to replace existing tools they use.  There has to be a comfort level with the OS before anyone will go there.

Linux is just too far away from being a practical alternative to Windows.  It keeps getting better, but it needs a lot more work.

I am not saying you cannot make a Linux distro work, but if it takes a user downloading gigabytes of tarballs in order to get it to work, then it is not a real solution.  This is one of the biggest stumbling blocks Linux faces.  Its own users are its own worst enemy.  They eschew the elegant in favor of the clumsy and defend it vigorously.

I like Linux.  I use it at home.  I am comfortable with the CLI and prefer it over the GUI.  I do not mind the clumsy methods of installing an application.  It is simple, to me.  However, what is simple to me is not simple for most users.  If you want Linux to be a mainstream OS, you have to make it easy to use AND consistent from distro to distro.
Title: Re: Windows 8 Beta
Post by: Reschke on March 06, 2012, 09:22:00 AM
From having been in the sales side of hardware years ago when Linux started out being the "next cool thing" and trying to learn how to work in it it was cool. But for me after I got out of that side of business I quit messing around with Linux and honestly I can't go back to it unless they dumb it down just a little bit but then the various Linux distro's wouldn't be cool enough to be good enough. They would be mainstream and that isn't going to work for the mentality that I still see when talking to my tech buddies who still run it and use it every day. One even went so far as to say at dinner with friends that when Linux started making easier for everyone to use it that he would find another obscure OS to use. I recommended he start using BeOS since they are even more of a niche market OS than Linux.