Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: W7LPNRICK on March 05, 2012, 01:49:24 PM
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I've already avoided Gall Bladder Surgery and I saw the Hepatic stones and parasites myself...
Are giant corporations looking out for our best interest or their $$$?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVJSnxGw4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVJSnxGw4U)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVJSnxGw4U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpVJSnxGw4U)
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Are giant corporations looking out for our best interest or their $$$?
Um, I did not see the videos, but do you really need to ask that question? A corporation (giant or small) is set up or one purpose only :old: Otherwise, it is called charity.
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Making money is there goal so what.
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I'm really tempted to climb into the discussion about for-profit versus non-profit: The idea that manufacturing interests should be first and foremost the "good" of the community but the collapse of just such an economy beat me to the punch. It's called the Soviet Union.
Didn't work for them. Why do we think it will work for us?
Boo
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A surgery is a sale, just like any other product that one has to pay for.
Sometimes it is absolutely necessary, other times one may live without it but most doctors will not volunteer this info although, if you ask this of the doctor, he is obliged to tell you whether or not you can survive without it and what the consequences would be.
Beware phrases such as "I highly recommend it" and "It may be in your best interests"
Remember, no surgery = no payment.
Anyone that has had a doctor recommend that they get surgery has the right to, and should get, a second or third opinion, starting with their Primary Care Physician as they are the one that has the best knowledge of your medical history.
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I'm really tempted to climb into the discussion about for-profit versus non-profit: The idea that manufacturing interests should be first and foremost the "good" of the community but the collapse of just such an economy beat me to the punch. It's called the Soviet Union.
Didn't work for them. Why do we think it will work for us?
Boo
Well, good think you didn't them because you don;t seem to have a clue about what the Soviet Union was. The last thing on the mind of the people in charge there was the "good" of the community or people.
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A surgery is a sale, just like any other product that one has to pay for.
Sometimes it is absolutely necessary, other times one may live without it but most doctors will not volunteer this info although, if you ask this of the doctor, he is obliged to tell you whether or not you can survive without it and what the consequences would be.
Beware phrases such as "I highly recommend it" and "It may be in your best interests"
Remember, no surgery = no payment.
Anyone that has had a doctor recommend that they get surgery has the right to, and should get, a second or third opinion, starting with their Primary Care Physician as they are the one that has the best knowledge of your medical history.
High priced car mechanics :rofl Oil change recommended every 3000 miles :lol
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High priced car mechanics :rofl Oil change recommended every 3000 miles :lol
I do not hold the mechanics/garages as accountable for this notion as much as I do the Oil/Auto Parts companies as, a lot of the time, the supplies for the change cost more than the service charge itself. For example, Jiffy Lube has a $19.95 oil change special, yet the average cost for oil and filter (not counting the pan to catch it in, filter wrench, etc) is $12 to $15. For some vehicles, depending on how they are used it is more necessary to do this than in some others. For a Diesel engine, oil and air filter changes are more important.
I change mine about that often, but mainly because I do a lot of stop/go driving to and from work and I beat the piss out of my Wrangler on a regular basis and subject it to a variety of adverse conditions that most cars will likely never see such as sandy, muddy, wet, dusty, etc. The other reason is that, when I purchased that vehicle (from CarSense which is an independent used car dealer), it came with a 100,000 mile engine warranty, as long as I can prove that I change the oil at no larger than 4k miles AND that I use Ouaker State oil (although I think that they would do as much as possible to try to deny any claim that I would make if they could) To me, it just sounds like just another marketing tool for Quaker State
I worked as a service writer at a local garage for a while and it was made clear to me that EVERY car had something wrong with it, even if was something as simple as wipers and it was frowned upon if we didn't recommend more work than what the car actually came in for. It was a tactic to push sales of more service and squeeze as much out of the customer as possible. I was not comfortable with this and eventually left.
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I change my oil, oil filter and fuel filter at the same time..... $200 plus each time.
Diesel
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I do not hold the mechanics/garages as accountable for this notion as much as I do the Oil/Auto Parts companies as, a lot of the time, the supplies for the change cost more than the service charge itself. For example, Jiffy Lube has a $19.95 oil change special, yet the average cost for oil and filter (not counting the pan to catch it in, filter wrench, etc) is $12 to $15. For some vehicles, depending on how they are used it is more necessary to do this than in some others. For a Diesel engine, oil and air filter changes are more important.
I change mine about that often, but mainly because I do a lot of stop/go driving to and from work and I beat the piss out of my Wrangler on a regular basis and subject it to a variety of adverse conditions that most cars will likely never see such as sandy, muddy, wet, dusty, etc. The other reason is that, when I purchased that vehicle (from CarSense which is an independent used car dealer), it came with a 100,000 mile engine warranty, as long as I can prove that I change the oil at no larger than 4k miles AND that I use Ouaker State oil (although I think that they would do as much as possible to try to deny any claim that I would make if they could) To me, it just sounds like just another marketing tool for Quaker State
I worked as a service writer at a local garage for a while and it was made clear to me that EVERY car had something wrong with it, even if was something as simple as wipers and it was frowned upon if we didn't recommend more work than what the car actually came in for. It was a tactic to push sales of more service and squeeze as much out of the customer as possible. I was not comfortable with this and eventually left.
So, you are saying that if you are being paid to lie it is not your fault. The person at fault is the person that pays you? Not you personally since you said you left because of that. I would definitely blame the mechanic or the shop for choosing to accept payment for lying to you.
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Oh I have a clue. The Soviet Union was a workers paradise. Every boneheaded idea about how to benefit "the worker" was implemented. It was beautiful. It was so incredible that they had to shoot people to keep them out, I mean shoot people to keep them in.
A world with no profit motive. Evil, greedy capitalis corporations...heck the Soviets produced one type of automobile. Evil, greedy capitalist corporations produced hundreds. Soviets produced one refrigerator. Evil, greedy capitalist corporations produced dozens and dozens. Etc, etc, etc...And in all cases they were far superior to their Soviet "doing it for the good of all mankind" couterparts.
Didn't work then, won't work now.
Boo
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So, you are saying that if you are being paid to lie it is not your fault. The person at fault is the person that pays you? Not you personally since you said you left because of that. I would definitely blame the mechanic or the shop for choosing to accept payment for lying to you.
I'm not saying that I'm an altruist, and I understand that everyone has to make a living and I'm not gonna change the world. It really was not flat lying and trying to cheat the customer somehow so much as it was about going over the vehicle with a fine-toothed comb because most cars DO have something on them that could use repair if you look hard enough for example most cars on the road COULD use fresher wipers, but if they pass inspection, I am not gonna push the customer to get new ones. It was also the pushing of the "services" (manifold IV-drip cleaner, tranny flush/fill, etc.) and whatever else they could push is what bothered me. It was the hard sales to customers, a lot of whom could barely afford to keep their cars in shape just so they could go to work, that bothered me. That is why I left.
In the end, it is up to the final consumer to be savvy about what they are paying for. One can only be cheated if one lets themselves be.
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Don't believe the Gerson cancer cure; unless you actually enjoy coffee enemas and still dying to the cancer anyway.
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Um, I did not see the videos, but do you really need to ask that question? A corporation (giant or small) is set up or one purpose only :old: Otherwise, it is called charity.
Ummm, no I didn't. :ahand How far is too far to go for a profit? Do they cross the line every minute of every day? Do hundreds of Cancer victims die each month because information is not pushed, disseminated, or possible even suppressed? Watch the videos, them ask yourself. I'm not deciding for you, I'm only offering information for you to educate yourself further. You may decide it all hooey. Up to you to choose. Google Dr Burzinsky on you tube.
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Don't believe the Gerson cancer cure; unless you actually enjoy coffee enemas and still dying to the cancer anyway.
Nowhere in any part of his story does he say coffee enemas alone cure cancer...on the other hand how many cancer patients have you held the hand of while the chemo killed them? They often tell the patients, "If the Chemo doesn't kill you, you might have a chance". Black walnut husks have been used for hundreds or thousands of years by Native Americans. Naturopaths now say that it kills more disease causing parasites & pathogens than any other substance, but it cannot be licensed or patented, therefore the big Pharmaco's are not interested. Did you read that? More than any super antibiotic(Dangerous side effects)on the market which are raking in billions for them...? If someone is blowing smoke because they think they already know, then they are part of the problem & not part of the solution. Educate yourselves...really. :salute
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Nowhere in any part of his story does he say coffee enemas alone cure cancer...on the other hand how many cancer patients have you held the hand of while the chemo killed them? They often tell the patients, "If the Chemo doesn't kill you, you might have a chance". Black walnut husks have been used for hundreds or thousands of years by Native Americans. Naturopaths now say that it kills more disease causing parasites & pathogens than any other substance, but it cannot be licensed or patented, therefore the big Pharmaco's are not interested. Did you read that? More than any super antibiotic(Dangerous side effects)on the market which are raking in billions for them...? If someone is blowing smoke because they think they already know, then they are part of the problem & not part of the solution. Educate yourselves...really. :salute
You might want to reevaluate your statement here, could be Del knows what he was saying.
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naturopath = quack All you need to know.
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In the end, it is up to the final consumer to be savvy about what they are paying for. One can only be cheated if one lets themselves be.
Not true, it is very hard to be an expert in everything (unless you are a member of AH :) )
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Oh I have a clue. The Soviet Union was a workers paradise. Every boneheaded idea about how to benefit "the worker" was implemented. It was beautiful. It was so incredible that they had to shoot people to keep them out, I mean shoot people to keep them in.
A world with no profit motive. Evil, greedy capitalis corporations...heck the Soviets produced one type of automobile. Evil, greedy capitalist corporations produced hundreds. Soviets produced one refrigerator. Evil, greedy capitalist corporations produced dozens and dozens. Etc, etc, etc...And in all cases they were far superior to their Soviet "doing it for the good of all mankind" couterparts.
Didn't work then, won't work now.
Boo
You are confusing propaganda with reality. Nothing about the Soviet Union had anything to do with the well being of the worker or the people.
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It depends on what one defines as the "Soviet Union". It was supposed to be that way, but inevitably people who just wanted power got into the system and the whole thing fell apart. Communism doesn't work unless everyone is doing it. That's the problem, altruism is not something that everyone can be expected to have: A large enough population ensures a few ruthless people will ruin it for everyone else. On paper, communism (not USSR style, but the kind where the state withers away) beats any other system, but it takes a population of demi-gods to get it to work. That's not to say that it's impossible. Wikipedia is just such a place- you don't get paid, but you edit it for the good of mankind. Sappy-sounding? Sure. It still works. The tech support right on this forum is another such example- doing it for the good of your fellows. In the end, the world will likely be a mix of communism and regulated capitalism because the internet offers so much freedom and power plants operate best under a capitalist model. Am I a socialist? Not really. The competitive, free market under effective regulation is very effective for consumer goods and large enterprises; however, things like encyclopedias and programming languages are not like that. Those operate best when there is no price, just altruistic effort to improve. Look at Python- totally free with a huge community that continually improves the software.
-Penguin
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It depends on what one defines as the "Soviet Union". It was supposed to be that way, but inevitably people who just wanted power got into the system and the whole thing fell apart. Communism doesn't work unless everyone is doing it. That's the problem, altruism is not something that everyone can be expected to have: A large enough population ensures a few ruthless people will ruin it for everyone else. On paper, communism (not USSR style, but the kind where the state withers away) beats any other system, but it takes a population of demi-gods to get it to work. That's not to say that it's impossible. Wikipedia is just such a place- you don't get paid, but you edit it for the good of mankind. Sappy-sounding? Sure. It still works. The tech support right on this forum is another such example- doing it for the good of your fellows. In the end, the world will likely be a mix of communism and regulated capitalism because the internet offers so much freedom and power plants operate best under a capitalist model. Am I a socialist? Not really. The competitive, free market under effective regulation is very effective for consumer goods and large enterprises; however, things like encyclopedias and programming languages are not like that. Those operate best when there is no price, just altruistic effort to improve. Look at Python- totally free with a huge community that continually improves the software.
-Penguin
Communism doesn't work... neither does it's sister socialism period.
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Not true, it is very hard to be an expert in everything (unless you are a member of AH :) )
It is prudent to research the things one spends their money upon. It doesn't take an expert, it takes some common sense, inquiry and diligence.
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neither does it's sister socialism period.
Only my way is the right way :rofl I bet you capitalism is not working for millions of Americans. Let me guess, it is their fault right? :rofl
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Without question it's about money and your health is socondary.
In fact, a live but unhealth humanoid is good business for them.
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Only my way is the right way :rofl I bet you capitalism is not working for millions of Americans. Let me guess, it is their fault right? :rofl
It works for those that work. Problem is we have socialism in regards to insurance and the public dole. That affects jobs and many other things.
If I am paying for folks on the dole then I have less funds for hiring a new hand. That means more on the public dole. Face it.. there are a lot on the public dole that want nothing more than their "free to them" handouts. It inhibits us from actually hiring folks who do not want to be on the public dole and actually want to be working.
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It works for those that work. Problem is we have socialism in regards to insurance and the public dole. That affects jobs and many other things.
The very word 'socialism' should be a slur.
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It works for those that work.
Was just checking :lol So, as long as someone works, they should be doing fine right? Like lets say a 70 year old waitress at the dinner down the street? Let me guess, it is her fault she landed there but since she is working she should be doing fine right?
Problem is we have socialism in regards to insurance and the public dole. That affects jobs and many other things.
If I am paying for folks on the dole then I have less funds for hiring a new hand. That means more on the public dole. Face it.. there are a lot on the public dole that want nothing more than their "free to them" handouts. It inhibits us from actually hiring folks who do not want to be on the public dole and actually want to be working.
So, my taxes go down every time one of them gets a job? I had no idea :O In your opinion it is OK to have socialism when it comes to police, schools, and fire department but not for health care? Just curious, why is health care different? Lets remove schools and police also. I can afford to send my kids to better schools than your socialist system can provide anyway lol.
Bottom line is that your taxes will never go down and they are not high because of the what I call unfortunate and you call lazy people in this country. You just would rather see your money support some foreign dictator than even consider the idea that a fellow American might see any benefit from what you think is your money, even though it is mine also.
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It works for those that work. Problem is we have socialism in regards to insurance and the public dole. That affects jobs and many other things.
If I am paying for folks on the dole then I have less funds for hiring a new hand. That means more on the public dole. Face it.. there are a lot on the public dole that want nothing more than their "free to them" handouts. It inhibits us from actually hiring folks who do not want to be on the public dole and actually want to be working.
Anyone wanting to dispute this is free to take a walk through downtown Philly with me to have an encounter with the homeless. They will panhandle for money, claiming that they need to eat. I NEVER give them money but ALWAYS offer to take them to get a meal.
Most refuse since "a meal cannot be spent at the liquor store like money can, and there is plenty of food to be found in the garbage if you know where to look"
I use quotes because I have heard these words spoken to me more than once. I say most, but not all, react this way. There are some that I have sat down with at a meal, but the number is less than I can count on one hand.
So, YES, there are plenty that are more than happy to mooch off of the system :aok
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So, YES, there are plenty that are more than happy to mooch off of the system :aok
Of coarse there are. That is true with every system. However, you cannot discard a system based on the fear that someone may take advantage of it. Do we honestly think no one is taking advantage of the current system for profit? Have you guys been watching the news? lol. However, that does not bother us. We are really worried that we may lose a dollar on a homeless person while billions are being stolen right in front of our eyes :rofl
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Of coarse there are. That is true with every system. However, you cannot discard a system based on the fear that someone may take advantage of it. Do we honestly think no one is taking advantage of the current system for profit? Have you guys been watching the news? lol. However, that does not bother us. We are really worried that we may lose a dollar on a homeless person while billions are being stolen right in front of our eyes :rofl
I did not say anything about discarding any systems.
I KNOW that there are people that take advantage of the current system for profit, I don't need to watch the news and I didn't say that it didn't bother me.
I'm not worried about losing a dollar on a homeless person, either. I just prefer that they admit that they are gonna take my $10 and go blow it on a rock that will go up in smoke in less than 5 minutes so I can laugh at them and find someone that would appreciate a meal. I prefer to help those that really need it, not those claiming that they need help while at the same time are cheating the system.
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Was just checking :lol So, as long as someone works, they should be doing fine right? Like lets say a 70 year old waitress at the dinner down the street? Let me guess, it is her fault she landed there but since she is working she should be doing fine right?
So, my taxes go down every time one of them gets a job? I had no idea :O In your opinion it is OK to have socialism when it comes to police, schools, and fire department but not for health care? Just curious, why is health care different? Lets remove schools and police also. I can afford to send my kids to better schools than your socialist system can provide anyway lol.
Bottom line is that your taxes will never go down and they are not high because of the what I call unfortunate and you call lazy people in this country. You just would rather see your money support some foreign dictator than even consider the idea that a fellow American might see any benefit from what you think is your money, even though it is mine also.
Your failure to prepare is not because of me. Live or die with it. :)
Your kids are not because of me raise them... I raise mine.
Your bills are your bills not mine... I pay mine.
Problem today is so many folks want someone else to babysit them, get them out of trouble... if they don't then it is their fault and not the fault of the perpetrator.
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I think we are talking about two different ideas here.
Far on the left, there are liberal (no totalitarian government) socialism and communism, which require a very specific kind of population to work. This population must be industrious (no-one sitting on their laurels) and altruistic and there cannot be any "careerists" (those who take advantage of the system for power). Unfortunately, random genetic assortment prevents this from occurring unless we can find a way to code it out permanently. There is also the specter of the USSR, which is totalitarian control of the economy.
On the moderate left there is universal free healthcare for all. Again, it has the same potential for abuse as above, but it isn't socialism because there is a free market for other things like shoes, toothpaste, finance, etc.
In the middle you have social security and Medicare, both of which face under-funding and a spike in use due to an aging population.
On the moderate right you have the "rugged individualist" society in which, like Shuffler said, everyone is industrious, independent, and the government is much like it is today on the inside (the outside will usually be nationalist or pacifist).
The far right splits with either totalitarian control of the economy and exclusively aggressive foreign policy, laissez-faire (very light regulation, save for for things like child labor, elevators, safety systems), or complete deregulation of the economy (no rules at all) and either a night-watchman state or none at all.
We need to decide which we're arguing about. We also need to draw the line between "unfortunate" and "lazy," and what to do with them. Here are my definitions, feel free to correct them:
Unfortunate: Someone who is experiencing negative consequences either beyond their control or that are the results of actions, the consequences of which are amplified by the system.
Lazy: Someone who is not motivated to work for a reason. The definition of lazy cannot be circular- there must always be a reason.
What to do with unfortunate people: help them to succeed by getting them out of their funk with the "public dole". Thus, state-run education, disaster services, low-income healthcare, welfare, food-stamps, etc. However, there must be a review of the person in order to see if the help is working. Drug addiction places someone in the "unfortunate" category because the definition of addiction is that use is beyond the sufferer's control.
What to do with lazy people: see if they are just lazy or indeed unfortunate. Depression, addiction, and other disorders can easily masquerade as laziness. The truly lazy should actually be satisfied with their life and thus not helped if the aid is non-negligible (e.g., if you're just buying some food once in a while, it's not a big deal for the budget, but totally subsidizing people's lives if they aren't producing anything otherwise unattainable in return is unacceptable).
That way you avoid a good deal of suffering, people are happier, and no-one is "stuck". That way being lazy is either its own reward or you can easily get out and compete on a level playing field. That means positive action to get people out of the funk. In the end it saves you money because the economy gains access to more human capital, thus leading to growth. The process must be continuous in that aspect, but many problems are like snarls in fishing line- take the time to undo them and they shouldn't come back, or at least long enough to make undoing them worth the effort.
On drug addiction itself, much of it starts in the teenage years when the brain is prone to weigh reward more than risk. That is not being irrational- the input changed, not the machine. It looks like this:
Reality->Preprocessor->Rational Mind->Action
It has been proven that this "preprocessor" is present in all of us. It's why advertising and propaganda work well; they play on our 'heartstrings' or 'preprocessor' to create choices that are both rational but not based in reality. During adolescence this preprocessor malfunctions and weighs reward more than risk (evolutionary baggage). Thus, doing drugs goes from dangerous to OK and back to dangerous in the space of about 25 years, with around 15 of those years being the OK part. This isn't true for everyone, but it does happen to most. This temporary malfunction can lead to drug use and later drug addiction. However, once addicted the person doesn't want to stay that way. Unfortunately, life as a heroin addict doesn't do wonders to your self-esteem, either. It can sap your motivation and make you depressed, which creates what I call "bum syndrome": apparent laziness caused by hidden but powerful brain and emotional damage.
That's why there will always be "bums on the street". They aren't there because they're happiest there. Most are miserable but too downtrodden to get out of the funk. Fixing them isn't easy, either; it can take years of intensive and expensive therapy to get them off the drugs and feeling good about themselves. The drug use itself can also precede the damage, which makes the problem even worse by requiring the 'bum' to deal with their particular mental disease while going through withdrawal.
The biggest problem, however, is the labeling. No-one wants to help a 'bum' because they are perfectly broken. However, the homeless include disaster victims, the lost (literally), and those with untreated mental diseases. However, a good chunk of people forget all that because it's easier to just lump them all together into one big category of perfectly broken sub-humans who deserve to suffer. You know what doing that should remind them of? Being a bum.
-Penguin
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naturopath = quack All you need to know.
opinions vary...a lot! :rolleyes:
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Communism doesn't work... neither does it's sister socialism period.
Socialist models seem to be working excellently in European countries such as Sweden, Finland and others (Denmark? Switzerland maybe? too lazy to use Google)
Better educated populace than the US, higher quality of life, less unemployment, less religious idiots interfering with sensible policy, great education and health care that is provided by the govt rather than only wealthy people getting the best opportunities :aok
I don't really expect you to know what you're talking about before repeating things you've heard from Rush though, don't worry ;)
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You might want to reevaluate your statement here, could be Del knows what he was saying.
Then again maybe I don't. Maybe every opinion on this forum is because of the education they received. That doesn't ever make that conclusion final. If that were true, then Yes the earth is flat. :noid "Medicine" is still learning, now faster than ever. The money flow and how it is intentionally curbed and funneled decides what is taught & what is not. The fact that successful inventors of cancer cures cannot get grants, even though the empirical data proves their treatments work, is direct evidence of control by those already filthy rich with their tentacles reaching everywhere. I believe what my experiences have taught me. First I read it, then I tried it, then My health improved and surgery was avoided. Black Walnut Husks for example:
http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/benefits-of/organic-black-walnut-hull (http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/benefits-of/organic-black-walnut-hull)
Where would you read about this is the established medical community? Yet native Americans used it for hundreds of years.
There are definitely Quacks out there. That doesn't make it all nonsense.
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Coombz, I spent an afternoon with the Minister of Education from Finland (small crowd.) Very interesting discussion regarding, what is generally considered the finest public education model in the industrialized world. Many great ideas to consider in the US, certainly in Tennessee.
As we discussed I asked about the population. It is very white America circa 1950's They have very small mobility issues, very traditional family supports and incredibly homogeneous. I would also throw in relatively religious system as opposed to America's secular/anti-Christian education model. In the US, certainly in the massive population centers such as New York, Chicago, etc completely different populations and issues. Finland provides great ideas to consider though the problems are not the same. Some ideas have merit, others problematic from moment one.
This small slice may speak to other issues that make up both an economy and services provided by the government. Interesting that while America is attempting to go European all that I am reading is Europe in flames and beginning to head towards America. Best example is health care. The UK model was all the rage, now we read that Parliament is strongly considering private health insurance.
Could it be the grass is greener on the other side. Europe is not perfect, not a complete failure. Same goes for the US. Socialism is a spectrum and it seems to be diminishing in the UK.
Boo
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coomz, that's slanted and you know it. Europe is going through a massive debt crisis and it had no plans in case its burgeoning entitlement programs outstripped its budget. Socialism, while nice, requires near-perfect government, which certainly wasn't present there. Even five or six years ago I read that Sweden had problems with its national debt- socialism isn't perfect by any means.
W7: I love how well you slipped in at least three unproven statements. Cancer cures not being brought to market? Where were you when that debate over whether giving HPV vaccines to children was a good idea? HPV can cause cervical cancer in girls- for them its even better than a cure, it's practically a vaccine! Baloney to the idea of doctors being controlled by corporations. When my mom went through medical school, internship, fellowship, and residency all she talked about was the exams. Heck, I asked her point-blank in the car: "If you could cure all the diseases you treat, but not see a cent of the money nor even acclaim, would you?" Her voice trembled and rose like that guy who gave the speech Independence Day and she said 'yes'. She never lies- she even told me about how I almost died on the way out of her. I've even seen her office and heard her prescribe treatment over the phone. Patients come in, she checks them out, they get their prescriptions and they leave. They come back because they have chronic diseases like diabetes, not because she's doing anything on purpose.
If anyone is suspect of ulterior motive, it's you. It's more likely that you've got a stake in this drug than all of medicine being controlled by the unnamed suits of Big Pharma. In fact, would you care to name the specific people in charge of this operation? Are you aware of the number and caliber of people who investigate this kind of stuff all the time? How did you best them, and uncover what would make a laughing stock of my mother and the rest of all the physicians on the planet? Let's get your methodology, your evidence, your works cited- all of it. What have you got to lose?
-Penguin
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coomz, that's slanted and you know it. Europe is going through a massive debt crisis and it had no plans in case its burgeoning entitlement programs outstripped its budget. Socialism, while nice, requires near-perfect government, which certainly wasn't present there. Even five or six years ago I read that Sweden had problems with its national debt- socialism isn't perfect by any means.
No argument with any of that.
I was simply pointing out that Shuffler's blanket statement that 'socialism doesn't work' is stupid. (like pretty much everything he posts in the O'Club :neener: )
a lot of Americans are still hanging on to ideas propogated from US cold war-era propaganda imo, I find it hilarious
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Coombs, I'll grant you America is a socialist nation, albeit it slight. At least substantially less then Europe. Most Americans are denial. It is a matter of degrees but we have crossed the Rubicon. Now how far into the woods. Our debt is massive at over $15trillion. Our unhooked liabilities is staggering. CBO puts them $100trillion plus. Reality is non negotiable. We will sort it out because we must.
Boo
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Socialism implies a collective ownership of the means of production. The US is closer to a welfare state.
-Penguin
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Marxism equals government ownership of means of production. Socialists learned almost a century ago they do not need to own means to control production. Fascism operates in this light as a partnership with means of production (ie corporations and businesses) to implement state agenda. Clearly Fascism is socialist.
Welfare state as a matter of degrees towards a pure Marxist/socialist state. The worst to fight over who or what is socialism is the socialists themselves. I've watched them tear at each others throat over whether or not Mao was a committed communist or schill for the capitalists. Kind of funny though amazing how vicious.
Boo
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Socialist models seem to be working excellently in European countries such as Sweden, Finland and others (Denmark? Switzerland maybe? too lazy to use Google)
Better educated populace than the US, higher quality of life, less unemployment, less religious idiots interfering with sensible policy, great education and health care that is provided by the govt rather than only wealthy people getting the best opportunities :aok
I don't really expect you to know what you're talking about before repeating things you've heard from Rush though, don't worry ;)
You saying rush shows your ignorance. I do not listen to him. I'm an American that dispises what some are trying to do to our country.
Maybe you should take a look at the history of our country before the idiots got hold of it.
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No argument with any of that.
I was simply pointing out that Shuffler's blanket statement that 'socialism doesn't work' is stupid. (like pretty much everything he posts in the O'Club :neener: )
a lot of Americans are still hanging on to ideas propogated from US cold war-era propaganda imo, I find it hilarious
I wouldn't expect a foreigner to have a clue in regards to the US. You prove this point.
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Your failure to prepare is not because of me. Live or die with it. :)
Your kids are not because of me raise them... I raise mine.
Your bills are your bills not mine... I pay mine.
Problem today is so many folks want someone else to babysit them, get them out of trouble... if they don't then it is their fault and not the fault of the perpetrator.
Wow, your failure to answer any of my questions is amazing :lol So the failure of a foreign country or dictator to prepare IS your problem but what you perceive as the failure of a fellow American is not? :lol
Let me ask again. Why is it OK to have a socialist system in place when it comes to education, police, fire departments, etc but not health?
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coomz, that's slanted and you know it. Europe is going through a massive debt crisis and it had no plans in case its burgeoning entitlement programs outstripped its budget. Socialism, while nice, requires near-perfect government, which certainly wasn't present there. Even five or six years ago I read that Sweden had problems with its national debt- socialism isn't perfect by any means.
W7: I love how well you slipped in at least three unproven statements. Cancer cures not being brought to market? Where were you when that debate over whether giving HPV vaccines to children was a good idea? HPV can cause cervical cancer in girls- for them its even better than a cure, it's practically a vaccine! Baloney to the idea of doctors being controlled by corporations. When my mom went through medical school, internship, fellowship, and residency all she talked about was the exams. Heck, I asked her point-blank in the car: "If you could cure all the diseases you treat, but not see a cent of the money nor even acclaim, would you?" Her voice trembled and rose like that guy who gave the speech Independence Day and she said 'yes'. She never lies- she even told me about how I almost died on the way out of her. I've even seen her office and heard her prescribe treatment over the phone. Patients come in, she checks them out, they get their prescriptions and they leave. They come back because they have chronic diseases like diabetes, not because she's doing anything on purpose.
If anyone is suspect of ulterior motive, it's you. It's more likely that you've got a stake in this drug than all of medicine being controlled by the unnamed suits of Big Pharma. In fact, would you care to name the specific people in charge of this operation? Are you aware of the number and caliber of people who investigate this kind of stuff all the time? How did you best them, and uncover what would make a laughing stock of my mother and the rest of all the physicians on the planet? Let's get your methodology, your evidence, your works cited- all of it. What have you got to lose?
-Penguin
Did you watch the videos? Did you look for You tube video Dr Burzinshy's Cancer cure. There's a lot to watch, but entirely supported by facts. These statements are never 100% inclusive of all the "Good People" doing good work in healthcare. Instead, it's an indictment of the systems resistance to influence outside their control, which might change the flow of some money.
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Wow, your failure to answer any of my questions is amazing :lol So the failure of a foreign country or dictator to prepare IS your problem but what you perceive as the failure of a fellow American is not? :lol
Let me ask again. Why is it OK to have a socialist system in place when it comes to education, police, fire departments, etc but not health?
The fix is easy then.... you can support those who can't or wont support themselves. You can support the kids they have and can't support themselves. Don't try to force it on all folks who are determined to work hard and improve their lot in life.
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The fix is easy then.... you can support those who can't or wont support themselves. You can support the kids they have and can't support themselves. Don't try to force it on all folks who are determined to work hard and improve their lot in life.
:lol First of all, I don;t try to force anything on anyone. We are just talking. You do seem to have a problem answering my simple questions though. I have worked my arse off so far and I have no problem if my tax money goes to someone in need instead of a foreign dictator.
Second, just because you claim that they are lazy it does not make it true. Some are, some are not and given a chance they will try to get out of their situation. Your problem is more the worry that one of your dollars may be taken by someone not in need and therefore you'd rather not help any one. Much better to let it all go on government contracts and foreign killers than risk giving a dollar to the wrong person here.
It is human nature. People confuse luck with skill or doing the smart thing etc all the time. You were lucky to be born in an environment that allowed you to do good for yourself. You confuse that as some kind of skill. You did not choose where you were born or to what family. You got lucky. Some people didn't. Here is a good life example of the human nature for you. I used to work for a trading firm that gave out insane bonuses. Of coarse, some people thought they had some kind of life skill that allowed them to get there and receive the bonuses. Total BS. When we went to school to become programmers we had no clue what industry or company we would work for. We got lucky, that is all. During that time I had friends that were unemployed for over a year and a half. They were what you would call lazy and mooching of the rest of us :noid Back to human nature though. So, some of the guys I was working with, instead of recognizing their good fortune they were really upset. I eventually found out why. They had found out that we all got about the same amount of money. They could not be happy unless they knew that they got more than the rest of us :lol
So, stop preaching to me about lazy people and recognize your good fortune and maybe try to help a little here and there. Not all people in need are lazy drunks. Some maybe sick, old, hit by a natural disaster, etc.
And if you get a chance, try to answer the questions posted earlier. Why is it OK to have socialism for some things but not for others?
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Can anyone say Hi-Jacked thread?
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:lol First of all, I don;t try to force anything on anyone. We are just talking. You do seem to have a problem answering my simple questions though. I have worked my arse off so far and I have no problem if my tax money goes to someone in need instead of a foreign dictator.
Second, just because you claim that they are lazy it does not make it true. Some are, some are not and given a chance they will try to get out of their situation. Your problem is more the worry that one of your dollars may be taken by someone not in need and therefore you'd rather not help any one. Much better to let it all go on government contracts and foreign killers than risk giving a dollar to the wrong person here.
It is human nature. People confuse luck with skill or doing the smart thing etc all the time. You were lucky to be born in an environment that allowed you to do good for yourself. You confuse that as some kind of skill. You did not choose where you were born or to what family. You got lucky. Some people didn't. Here is a good life example of the human nature for you. I used to work for a trading firm that gave out insane bonuses. Of coarse, some people thought they had some kind of life skill that allowed them to get there and receive the bonuses. Total BS. When we went to school to become programmers we had no clue what industry or company we would work for. We got lucky, that is all. During that time I had friends that were unemployed for over a year and a half. They were what you would call lazy and mooching of the rest of us :noid Back to human nature though. So, some of the guys I was working with, instead of recognizing their good fortune they were really upset. I eventually found out why. They had found out that we all got about the same amount of money. They could not be happy unless they knew that they got more than the rest of us :lol
So, stop preaching to me about lazy people and recognize your good fortune and maybe try to help a little here and there. Not all people in need are lazy drunks. Some maybe sick, old, hit by a natural disaster, etc.
And if you get a chance, try to answer the questions posted earlier. Why is it OK to have socialism for some things but not for others?
I posted a short answer to your questions. I have decided to remove it and link this much more detailed exclamation since you seem to adhere to the long winded version of everything.
http://sasoc.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/a-good-comment-and-a-reply/ (http://sasoc.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/a-good-comment-and-a-reply/)
We understand your socialist..... you understand I'm not.
Now my ankle is sore so I'm done with this.
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Fascism operates in this light as a partnership with means of production (ie corporations and businesses) to implement state agenda. Clearly Fascism is socialist.
This is most likely why Hitler outlawed the Communist party and put Socialists, Communists and Anarchists in the death camp alongside the Jews and others.
Socialism is not always totalitarian, albeit in many cases it is. Totalitarianism is not always Socialist, and in the vast majority of cases it is no where near it.
Socialism, further, is not just anything that tries to centralize programs, or pass responsibility to the state. Socialism is all about social engineering, and that's all it's been about since long before Marx. Anything that does not work with the intent of creating a harmonious, classless society is not Socialism. Anything that doesn't do this without the presupposition that this society will be devoid of government is not Marxism.