Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Raptor05121 on March 07, 2012, 01:49:50 PM
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Everyone remember that video that was posted a few months ago showing all those German airplanes at Freeman Field? Someone is looking for them now:
http://naziscienceliveson.devhub.com/blog/776655-nazi-secrets-wwii-planes-buried-under-seymour-ind-airport/
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They been digging there for years, and have gotten some props and other things. They need to look under the runway at Midway up in Chicago.
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If they've been burried underground for 60 years they're a mangled heap of metal at this point. While a historic oddity, you would no sooner dig up the bulldozed piles of P-38s and consider them a "treasure" like the article might suggest.
I seem to recall they organize these teams to dig kind of like a recurring paleontology dig might -- come back when you get the funding, dig in another place, etc.
Seems to be a long-standing activity here. Good to see they're at it, but IMO it's not going to be all that productive IF they find anything of substance. It would take untold millions to refabricate any mangled fuselage into a real plane and require private backing and all that goodness. Only a rare few in the world are funding that sort of thing these days.
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All they have to do is find a few Jumo parts and it would be profitable.
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Not sure anyone would want Jumo parts as no one uses them anymore. I think the 262 replicas are using GE Learjet engines now,
as they fit inside Jumo casings and are alot more reliable and fuel efficient.
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The article I read said finding planes would be great but the holy grail is the 100 boxcars full of spare parts.
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Not sure anyone would want Jumo parts as no one uses them anymore. I think the 262 replicas are using GE Learjet engines now,
as they fit inside Jumo casings and are alot more reliable and fuel efficient.
No. Ironically the 262s are using Rolls Royce AE 3007 C2 engines from the Cessna Citation X line.
The reason Jumo parts are important is because there are examples of the 190D9 and Ju87 that are lacking just a few original parts. There is only one Jumo engine that I have found capable of running and they are going to put it on display and never fly it again (190D9).
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There is only one Jumo engine that I have found capable of running and they are going to put it on display and never fly it again (190D9).
Paul Allen has a D-13/R11 which has an engine in running condition. Don't know any D-9s with engines currently in running condition.
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If they've been burried underground for 60 years they're a mangled heap of metal at this point. While a historic oddity, you would no sooner dig up the bulldozed piles of P-38s and consider them a "treasure" like the article might suggest.
This is 10 of 10 Krusty's on the BS meter.
A couple of facts for you Krusty, just in case you want the truth instead of some BS you concoct in your head. A few P-38's are undergoing 100% restoration not very far from you. A couple just happened to be bulldozed into holes 60+ years ago. They are absolute treasures and when recovered yielded many unknown facts and tremendous amounts of insight into previously unknown facts regarding unit usage and history. While they are going to be expensive to restore, all fighter restorations are expensive to restore, whether they come out of a hole or a barn. It's just a fact. Those grounds could possibly yield artifacts worthy of restoration, or at the least, artifacts that display one of a kind examples that no longer exist.
Perhaps you should stick to making up stories about something else.
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If they've been burried underground for 60 years they're a mangled heap of metal at this point. While a historic oddity, you would no sooner dig up the bulldozed piles of P-38s and consider them a "treasure" like the article might suggest.
Here's a Jumo J211 from a Finnish Air Force Ju-88 which crashed in a flat spin into a lake:
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3034/3043685103_60bdda4bd7.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/saminkuvat/3043685103/)
Junkers Ju-88 A-4 - Liperi, Finland (http://www.flickr.com/photos/saminkuvat/3043685103/) by s.niemelainen (http://www.flickr.com/people/saminkuvat/), on Flickr
The plane itself largely disintigrated upon impact. But I'd say the engine alone made it worth the recovery effort that was made before the aircraft's bombs were exploded under water to make them harmless. There were a lot of smaller bits of metal which were considered too small fragments to be any museum value and they were cast into badges to raise funds to support Finnsish veterans:
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6233/6276931854_dea969c492.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/saminkuvat/6276931854/)
Junkers JU-88 JK-254 Mitali (http://www.flickr.com/photos/saminkuvat/6276931854/) by s.niemelainen (http://www.flickr.com/people/saminkuvat/), on Flickr
Rather useless, huh?
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It really depends, not all dirt/water is the same. Sometimes we get lucky and it lands in a very nice spot and in an ideal condition to begin with. Sometimes it's rather violent, and the soil conditions extremely harsh. There are some regions here in SoCal that were prehistoricly underwater in the ocean, and they are now many miles from the nearest shoreline. However the soil is so saltine that with the help of 50-years of southern-california rainfall a V-12 engine lawndarted into it will disintigrate into half.
Without some soils reports, you have no idea what condition they're in, but with one you got a pretty positive idea. In regards to the infamous P-38s bulldozered into ditches at the end of hte war, we'd need to go down the list of location by location, but given they're probabley all sub-tropic volcanic or coral islands in the south pacific - odds aren't good that there is even some metal worth scrap.
Just saying, and trying to educate both sides on this arguement.
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The Freeman Field Recovery Team has a facebook page.. They've recovered a lot of artifacts........
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freeman-Field-Recovery-Team/100776559984890 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Freeman-Field-Recovery-Team/100776559984890)
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Paul Allen has a D-13/R11 which has an engine in running condition. Don't know any D-9s with engines currently in running condition.
Yeah "capable of running" but missing the starter assembly and a few other things (details unknown).
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Yeah "capable of running" but missing the starter assembly and a few other things (details unknown).
Heh, so what's the Dora (D-9 which you speak of) in running condition? :)
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Heh, so what's the Dora (D-9 which you speak of) in running condition? :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8
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Great link Lyric!
When I was 5 years old (1958), my grandfather (aka Pop-pop) bought me a diecast Fw 190 (unpainted, raw metal). I thought it was one of the most beautiful planes I had ever seen. I still think so.....
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8
That's the D-13 which is owned by Paul Allen.
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That's the D-13 which is owned by Paul Allen.
Wmaker is correct. FHC's 190D series is a D13, not a D9.
As for Jumos, there are several groups collecting parts for runners. It is simply a matter of time before another one is running, most likely, on a flyer.
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Right. I did a search a few months back and found excellent example in England. Unfortunately the man that has it wants a princely sum for it.
And to answer your questions concerning the D9 and Jumo 213 (FAF Kissimmee):
http://www.fw190d-9.com/
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Right. I did a search a few months back and found excellent example in England. Unfortunately the man that has it wants a princely sum for it.
And to answer your questions concerning the D9 and Jumo 213 (FAF Kissimmee):
http://www.fw190d-9.com/
I'm aware of that restoration. You said D-9s in running condition. Their Jumo isn't burning any fuel yet. Only Dora I know that has its engine in running condition is that Paul Allen's D-13.
Hopefully there will be a Jumo powered D-9 flying sometime in the future.
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Sorry. Im not going to reveal that source until the recording has been made in person. :devil
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Sorry. Im not going to reveal that source until the recording has been made in person. :devil
Right. But of course. :rolleyes:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5LBUVS1T8
That's clearly a D-13....
That's the D-13 which is owned by Paul Allen.
Beaten to it.
That's a Jumo 213E at idle in that video. Paul Allen purchased and restored it after that video was taken, he also splooged a little extra and it now has a proper throttle control, but since receiving it and undertaking that resoration by PA it has not been run.
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No thats an extremely poor running Jumo in that video with a lot of crowd noise. Regardless of which anal retentive final designation 190D it is not going to be run again and we have to wait on the D9s being restored to actually hear the sound of a Jumo engine again. Likely the first to be running will not be a Jumo 213A-1 not that your ears could tell the difference.
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Speaking of digging up planes, the great lakes are packed full with early model corsairs and other navy aircraft.
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The lake planes are great finds but you cant touch them without Navy approval.
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The lake planes are great finds but you cant touch them without Navy approval.
How do you obtain something like that?
I'm very interested on how, because I'd consider trying.
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They will let you recover it after approving your method they look at your restoration plan, Then tell you where to send it when your finished. Unlike the air force that strikes crashed planes from there books the navy never has so they still own crashed planes. I can post the reg when I get off work.
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Regardless of which anal retentive final designation 190D...
Nothing anal rentitive about it. The 213F which powers the D-13 AFAIK is very different from the 213A of a D-9. What I find amusing at times is your total inability to admit that you are wrong. I'm quite sure you initially meant Allen's D-13 aswell but accidentally said "D-9". Simple "oh I meant the D-13" would have sufficed. No need to make up stories about some super secret D-9 which is already has a Jumo in running condition which you don't want us to find out about. If you don't want us to know about you wouldn't have said anything in the first place.
To others,
According to Sandy Air Corp. there are only four original wartime D-9s in existence. Of course mounting a running Jumo into post production example like the ones Flug Werke are doing would be the same thing as far as sights and sounds are concerned especially considering that very very little of the original material could be saved anyway especially for a flying example.
Mikael Olrog's excellent site keeps tabs on surviving axis aircraft: http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/ (http://www.preservedaxisaircraft.com/). It also lists only four surviving D-9s. The D-9 now in USAAF museum is the best surviving example. The rest are/were in very poor condition and lot of new fabrication is needed to make them look like a complete aircraft.
Sandy Air Corp's website is interesting aswell: http://www.sandyair.com/ (http://www.sandyair.com/)
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They will let you recover it after approving your method they look at your restoration plan, Then tell you where to send it when your finished. Unlike the air force that strikes crashed planes from there books the navy never has so they still own crashed planes. I can post the reg when I get off work.
Damn you navy!
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I'm quite sure you initially meant Allen's D-13
Of course you are. :rolleyes:
Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.
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he also splooged a little extra
I think the 190 is as sexy as the next guy, but not that sexy... unless you meant splurge :lol
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Of course you are. :rolleyes:
Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.
Why dont ya just link your sources?
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Damn you navy!
Here's a link to a story from 2004. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4615412/ns/us_news/t/navy-sues-man-over-salvaged-wwii-plane/#.T2J4Ukfgc14
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How do you obtain something like that?
I'm very interested on how, because I'd consider trying.
Most are the graves of the airmen whom flew them there - this is why most are still there and likely always will be.
But, if you spend the money, engineer the plan, proove the aircraft without a reasonable doubt isn't a war grave.... and then, you....
They will let you recover it after approving your method they look at your restoration plan, Then tell you where to send it when your finished. Unlike the air force that strikes crashed planes from there books the navy never has so they still own crashed planes. I can post the reg when I get off work.
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I think the 190 is as sexy as the next guy, but not that sexy... unless you meant splurge :lol
Do you know how much a vintage (or even replica) nazi-germany era focke wulf kommandogerat mixture-control unit costs? To call it a splurge would be an injustice. :devil
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Here's a link to a story from 2004. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4615412/ns/us_news/t/navy-sues-man-over-salvaged-wwii-plane/#.T2J4Ukfgc14
Thanks bud, interesting read! Most are the graves of the airmen whom flew them there - this is why most are still there and likely always will be.
But, if you spend the money, engineer the plan, proove the aircraft without a reasonable doubt isn't a war grave.... and then, you....
well if it is a war grave I would for sure leave it be out of respect for the pilot of the aircraft. My dad said after the war they just dumped most the planes
Off the back of the carriers.
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Of course you are. :rolleyes:
Nothing super secret about it. Im sure if you do some searching you can find it.
Chalenge,
You are being a dick.
In my travels and work within the warbird community, I have personally seen several Jumo cases and water jackets that are close to running conditions. I know of three different projects that are very low below the radar that are close to runners. The reason for secrecy, the cost of acquisitions goes up when the part is really sought after. Further, the industry is beset by crooks, wannabes, and those that are not who they say they are. Why any self-respecting business continues to deal with the public is beyond me.
Really man, with your history, I'd layoff the internet searches and scorpion anti-venom, it is making you look foolish.
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Speaking of digging up planes, the great lakes are packed full with early model corsairs and other navy aircraft.
Actually they've brought up the rare ones. The early Corsair was brought up, the F6F-3, Midway survivor Dauntless, a Vindicator and others. There has been a fairly comprehensive documenting of the wrecks with many brought up. Lots of them floated out to other museums, and a couple of the Wildcats are flying.
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Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.
WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.
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Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.
WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.
Just to add to this a local restorer who is rebuilding a B-17 here in Ohio. I know quite a few of these guys who are working on this aircraft when they tried to work with any of the Aluminium parts the metal just cracked & crumbled from just being to old.
Just about every Aluminium part of this plane had to be rebuilt from scratch.
This plane was never buried either so I would imagine one that has been underground for as long as those are in Indiana would be in very sad shape.
http://www.champaignaviationmuseum.org/HOME.php
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WMaker, while you might say that's reasonably intact for a wreck's engine, it still is somewhat mangled, and you would have to spend serious amounts of time rebuilding it. If there's a small compression, twist, distortion on part of the engine case, it's useless. Also the impact of crashing could have caused any number of micro fractures or cracks to the block. Any number of parts of the crankshaft and other moving parts could be destroyed and irreplacable. Although, I do admit engines would be far better to dig up 60 years after-the-fact than entire airframes would be. The denser material holds up better, that is for sure. I don't think crash engines are very useful, outside of being a piece that "survived" the crash while mostly retaining a recognizable shape.
First of all, I'd leave the judgement weather or not parts like the Jumo 211 of the JK-254 are useful in restorations to those who actually perform said restorations. Second, just because something isn't useful in a full scale restoration doesn't mean that it isn't worth digging up. Seeing one of those JK-254 engines in person they are awesome pieces of history and the very fact that they are damaged tell the story of the crew of the JK-254 who lost their lives on that day. Simply looking at the wooden stumps where a prop blade once was, was an experience for me.
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The 213F which powers the D-13 AFAIK is very different from the 213A of a D-9.
Just correcting myself...
Yellow 10's engine is actually 213E, not 213F. There are some sources which say E and some which say F. But according to Jerry Crandall the engine's data plate says E-1. One of the D-13 protypes had an F. The only difference is that F lacks the E's intercooler. Ta-152 also has a 213E while D-9 has an 213A. The difference in altitude performance is rather clear as seen in AH for example:
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=44&p2=40&pw=1>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.
Krusty,
You are a 10 of 10 on the Krusty BS meter. Seriously kiddo, you know absolutely ZERO about what you are talking about. I am not spinning anything. I have spent the last 20 years working on warbird wrecks and doing restorations, of which several were recovered from burial sites. That might make me somewhat of an expert when it comes to the subject. We used many parts of the structures from inside the aircraft (some approaching 75%) as well as the occasional skin that survives the process. Obviously some parts do not survive and are remade, but that happens even in aircraft that are ragged out as well. Just because you can not comprehend how it works or what the process involves does not make it impossible.
You want to know what is really insulting, is that your knowledge is so poor on this subject, yet you still claim to know-it-all and cry when someone points out that you are full of it, yet again.
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Don't let me interupt the purse fight. But from last week and the Freeman Field Recovery:
*Report from Brian* During the radar scan this morning over the crash site of FE-119, a 70x30 disturbance was found in the soil, which may idicate the dimensions of an excavation. Within that disturbance, are indications of objects up to 30 feet long. Could this be the remains of the famous Focke Wulf 190 "Jutta"?
:x :pray
That's right, it might be no better looking than a crumpled up tin can down there and after crashing, but everyone is pretty sure they just found another previously-lost mother f!@3n' D-9!!!
One of the aircraft that we are searching for is particularly historic. It is the aircraft last flown in combat by Josef "Pips" Priller, a noted German ace who achieved 101 victories, including 68 Spitfires. He was portrayed in the film "The Longest Day" for his sortie against the allied beachead at Normandy.
The aircraft was known as "Black 14" and was brought to Freeman Field and listed as FE-119. During a demonstration flight, FE-119 crashed on the West perimeter of the field, killing it's young American pilot, Lt William Haynes, who was thrown from the wreckage.
During 2009, the Team mapped the crash site, and collected fragments from the aircraft. Reports state that the remains of the aircraft were buried near where the main fuselage came to rest.
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He named many of his aircraft "Jutta" after his girlfriend in Germany. Later, his wife. This aircraft, Black 14 or FE-119, was the last "Jutta".
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/191167_148830318512847_100776559984890_318624_3225994_o.jpg)
(http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/199499_148480468547832_100776559984890_316925_1944390_n.jpg)
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Don't let bodhi's insulting tyrade spin things for you folks. When you dig something up out of the earth and it's a flat piece of metal, almost none of it is used. What they do is rip it apart, flatten it out, and use any piece as a template to make new parts. It's worse when the plane has been burried. I never said you couldn't get historic info from it, so ignore that secondary spin Bodhi puts on it as well. Some very few rare parts that don't get mangled (smaller parts, mostly, maybe throttle units and super-dense stuff like main wing spars or guns made from steel) get re-used IF they're not rusted, but 99% of warbirds "restored" from dug-up wrecks are simply new materials built off of the old pattern.
You do realize that Bodhi knows more about this than 99.99% of the Community entire, but yet you're playing the victim? You have challenged his posts with nothing but insults and rhetoric, all the while being clueless on what goes on behind the scenes in Restoration shops.
He's "spun" nothing. It was his CAREER for the better part of 20 years.
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Bodhi....where do you work?
I used to work at the Garber Restoration facility.
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You are being a dick.
Look here Bodhi no one on these boards has ever endeared me to do them a favor at all. I have done nothing since coming to AH except try to help some people and in all that time people like you continue to bring up this moron from the past. You should keep up because some people on this board did a very good job of researching the person in question and posted evidence proving it isnt me. So go drink your anti-venom and quietly shove off!
As to the reason I didnt post the "close-runners" information read the previous paragraph again and choke on your virtual crow!
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Chalenge, You were being one and I stand by that statement.
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Chalenge, You were being one and I stand by that statement.
I second that, to Krusty too. Bodhi isn't the only one to actually try and chip in his legitimate 2-cents on the topic at hand.
Both you two are ignoring the very real and professional answers given here for your own rhetoric...
For my part, have you both still not bothered looking into the stupid soils report for the airfield or general geographical (and HIGHLY AGRICULTURAL region within the United States (meaning sure as sunshine and rain - thay're already out there)) area?
I haven't, but then again I havent put my ego or pride on the line in this thread over something as trivial as the usable condition of these recoveries - maybe because I know, like Bodhi, no matter what condition whatever it is they dig up - it will be highley valuable, saught after, and treasured immensley one way or another by the restoration community - "usable" or not.
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Look here Bodhi no one on these boards has ever endeared me to do them a favor at all. I have done nothing since coming to AH except try to help some people and in all that time people like you continue to bring up this moron from the past. You should keep up because some people on this board did a very good job of researching the person in question and posted evidence proving it isnt me. So go drink your anti-venom and quietly shove off!
As to the reason I didnt post the "close-runners" information read the previous paragraph again and choke on your virtual crow!
Unless I am mistaken, you're now bringing this "past issue" up. But I am wondering why you went from tap dancing like Gregory Hines in "White Knights" to "defending yourself"?
There is only one Jumo engine that I have found capable of running and they are going to put it on display and never fly it again (190D9).
Sorry. Im not going to reveal that source until the recording has been made in person. :devil
No thats an extremely poor running Jumo in that video with a lot of crowd noise. Regardless of which anal retentive final designation 190D it is not going to be run again and we have to wait on the D9s being restored to actually hear the sound of a Jumo engine again. Likely the first to be running will not be a Jumo 213A-1 not that your ears could tell the difference.
You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar, with the above quotes. Now you are upset at that notion, then attack Bodhi. You are not involved in Aircraft Restoration, but you are trying your best to "scream louder" so you are heard first, instead of Bodhi. News flash, no one is listening to you, only Bodhi and Wmaker. Why? They can back up what has been typed in this thread.
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Krybaby this isnt your best use of your marbles. Bodhi needs a time out badly and you know it. I didnt attack Bodhi more than tell him I have had enough of him and you. You two dont even fly here and yet insult the customers like you own the place. Best buds with Hitech huh?
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I saw a few Jumo engines in containers at the Garber Restoration facility in the late 80s and even a diesel jumo.
They are there but the Smithsonian still has like 80 years worth of restoration projects lined up and possibly 50 more that hasn't been addressed.
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I havent really been paying attention here since the bickering has started best I can say is calm down, present facts with sources otherwise I'd have to trust more in what the guy that was in the industry has to say. No, Im not going to go look up anything the burden of supporting your position is on you Chalenge otherwise I think you're just blowing hot air,.
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Krybaby this isnt your best use of your marbles. Bodhi needs a time out badly and you know it. I didnt attack Bodhi more than tell him I have had enough of him and you. You two dont even fly here and yet insult the customers like you own the place. Best buds with Hitech huh?
Ok voss.
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Krybaby this isnt your best use of your marbles. Bodhi needs a time out badly and you know it. I didnt attack Bodhi more than tell him I have had enough of him and you. You two dont even fly here and yet insult the customers like you own the place. Best buds with Hitech huh?
Who have I insulted in this thread? You're still the one calling names. You DID attack Bodhi and now you're attacking me. :rock
Bodhi and Wmaker have provided more FACTS in this thread than you have.
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Look back and check out which individual actually reached out with the insults first.
And the fact is that if what I had to say makes me what Bodhi called me... then he is that times three since he "knows of three."
Your jumping in and spouting off just isnt any of your business. Fact is you dont even fly in game any more and you dont matter worth squat. Neither of you do.
@ariansworld: If you have evidence that anyone in this game is the guy you say I am... prove it. We actually spent money tracking the guy down. It isnt me. Keep harping on that and you just look even more foolish.
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Look back and check out which individual actually reached out with the insults first.
And the fact is that if what I had to say makes me what Bodhi called me... then he is that times three since he "knows of three."
Your jumping in and spouting off just isnt any of your business. Fact is you dont even fly in game any more and you dont matter worth squat. Neither of you do.
@ariansworld: If you have evidence that anyone in this game is the guy you say I am... prove it. We actually spent money tracking the guy down. It isnt me. Keep harping on that and you just look even more foolish.
The "you don't fly anymore" card is played. :rofl This is a BBS and it isn't via PM, so I believe any Registered member can engage in this conversation. Unfortunately, as stated previously Bodhi and Wmaker are the ones making sense and contributing worthwhile material to it. You calling me names, because Bodhi called you a name, doesn't make you right.
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Hey Chalenge, you are still working hard at being what I said.
With your behaviors, it's almost like your Dad is a General, or Colonel, ooops, I lost track....