Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: TDeacon on April 10, 2012, 04:48:48 PM
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I would like to see *all* flight-related settings integrated into the “Mode” settings, including "Dead Band" and "Damping" settings. It would be much more convenient to be able to pick one mode for AC and another for GV, without having to further fine-tune them every time.
MH
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Does no comment mean contempuous rejection? :-)
MH
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Deadband should be a global setting, cant see any reason why you would want to tie it to modes.
Damping - I never really understood what it does :headscratch:
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Deadband should be a global setting, cant see any reason why you would want to tie it to modes.
Damping - I never really understood what it does :headscratch:
I could see it being of use if one wanted different settings depending on what you were in, like a fighter vs a GV/gun vs a bomber...
Damping as I understand it basically slows down quick movements, so if you slap your stick from center to full left as fast as you can, the input to the game doesn't happen as fast if you have damping turned up.
+1 to it being something along the lines of a checkbox for 'spread stick sensitivity settings across all modes', default checked.
Wiley.
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Damping - I never really understood what it does :headscratch:
Damping controls how fast the joy stick can move.
With current joys sticks, damping is rarely needed.
In earlier years joy sticks could spike, I.E. go from 0 to full in one frame with out touching the stick. Damping would "Dampen" out that spike by controlling how fast the stick can change instead of 100% you could have a 5% spike even though the raw input would have gone to 100%.
HiTech
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ok thx, that makes sense. my quick experiments with it just made the controls less responsive - not something that many pilots would wish for I imagine :)
in which case its right that its a global setting like deadband - both are for smoothing over deficiencies in the joystick hardware, so you want as little as possible of either regardless of what you're using the joystick to control.
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I wish I knew how to change "mode" in middle of game. I have always wondered about that as I have the "auto" mode, but I have never bother to look it up. been saying that someday I'll look it up since I started 5 or 6 years ago.
semp
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Under global there are functions you can map to change modes.
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<snip>
... in which case its right that its a global setting like deadband - both are for smoothing over deficiencies in the joystick hardware, so you want as little as possible of either regardless of what you're using the joystick to control.
Actually, it's definately not global. One does not want the same Dead Band for planes (probably no Dead Band actually) as one wants for GVs (where one wants Dead Band in order to avoid gun "drift" and in order to avoid residual turn input interfering with gear shifts). So with the current system, one needs to adjust dead band each time one switches between a GV and a plane. It would be more convenient to have dead band (and damping for those who use it) save-able to specific "modes". It seems illogical to have 90% of your settings save-able to a mode, but not the remaining 10%.
MH
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if you are getting drift on an axis its a sign you need to recalibrate, then dial it out with deadband - regardless of what you're using it for.
seeing the gun drifting in GV mode means that you will get pitch or roll axis drift in an aircraft too (which will turn off autopilot if its bad enough.) likewise unwanted rudder inputs while driving will also manifest while flying, you dont want that either.
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if you are getting drift on an axis its a sign you need to recalibrate, then dial it out with deadband - regardless of what you're using it for.
seeing the gun drifting in GV mode means that you will get pitch or roll axis drift in an aircraft too (which will turn off autopilot if its bad enough.) likewise unwanted rudder inputs while driving will also manifest while flying, you dont want that either.
This is not a calibration issue. There will be some drift even if you are perfectly calibrated, due to hardware tolerances. That's why the deadband adjustment is there in the first place.
On the joystick horizontal and vertical axes, I use zero deadband for planes, because I am constantly making minor stick adjustments in flight, and the extra slop associated with deadband is undesired. In contrast, with GVs, I don't always have my hand on the stick (when lying in wait for example), so I put in a small amount of deadband to avoid this drift. The small sacrifice in controllability is acceptable.
On the rudder Z axis, I use zero deadband for planes for the same reason as above. In contrast, with GVs, I use a very large deadband setting. This is because I steer with rudder pedals; they have a lot of mechanical slop, and if you have any residual “turning” input from them, most vehicles won’t shift up. This is a consequence of HTC removing the manual gearshift feature from GVs.
I hope you aren’t one of those “my way is the only way” guys. :)
MH
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no I do understand how you want to use it, I just think that people who are happy to tolerate unwanted control inputs in one mode, but not in another are rare.
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I wish I knew how to change "mode" in middle of game. I have always wondered about that as I have the "auto" mode, but I have never bother to look it up. been saying that someday I'll look it up since I started 5 or 6 years ago.
semp
Semp here is how I did it with my CH Throttel. First in the key mapper I assigned keys to the modes becasue by default there are no assignments.
Keyboard Mapper:
Mode1 ctrl_left arrow
Mode2 ctrl_up arrow
Mode3 ctrl_right arrow
Mode4 ctrl_down arrow
Controller Mapper:
CH Throttel
Mode1
Button13 - Mode2
Mode2
Button13 - Mode3
Mode3
Button13 - Mode4
Mode4
Button13 - Mode1
One button cycles all 4 modes.
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no I do understand how you want to use it, I just think that people who are happy to tolerate unwanted control inputs in one mode, but not in another are rare.
Not that rare.
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Imaginary Poll - Do you prefer:
A. Your Aircraft/Vehicle to respond crisply and exactly to your control inputs.
B. Your Aircraft/Vehicle to do random stuff that you have no control over, in addition to your control inputs.
eg. pull back on stick and the aircraft pulls up but also rolls to the right and the rudder twitches from side to side.
you think theres plenty of players who would pick B? :headscratch:
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no I do understand how you want to use it, I just think that people who are happy to tolerate unwanted control inputs in one mode, but not in another are rare.
When you say "unwanted control inputs" you are over-simplifying. If you read my example again carefully, you can see that what is an unwanted control input in a GV may not be unwanted in a plane. It's as simple as that.
Reading your post again, and going even further, it should be *crystal clear* to you that the large rudder (Z axis) deadband setting would be *totally unacceptable* for the plane, but *absolutely necessary* for the GV steered with the rudder pedals.
MH
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yes I get it: you dont want steering drift/spikes/whatever while in GVs because it will slow down the GV when the steering isnt centred, but you dont mind the rudder drift/spikes/whatever when you're flying an aircraft.
I just think that the vast majority of players would prefer not to have drift/spikes/whatever in any mode.
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yes I get it: you dont want steering drift/spikes/whatever while in GVs because it will slow down the GV when the steering isnt centred, but you dont mind the rudder drift/spikes/whatever when you're flying an aircraft.
I just think that the vast majority of players would prefer not to have drift/spikes/whatever in any mode.
I think this is much more common than you suppose.
If they are steering the GV with rudder pedals, they will need a large deadband setting on rudder / z-axis. Otherwise, they will be moving along at 3 mph, as the transmission will never shift out of first gear.
If they are flying a plane with rudder pedals, they will want a zero deadband setting on rudder / z-axis. Otherwise, they will have an additional control input discontinuity when operating the rudder, which will make aiming harder.
MH
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Semp here is how I did it with my CH Throttel. First in the key mapper I assigned keys to the modes becasue by default there are no assignments.
Keyboard Mapper:
Mode1 ctrl_left arrow
Mode2 ctrl_up arrow
Mode3 ctrl_right arrow
Mode4 ctrl_down arrow
Controller Mapper:
CH Throttel
Mode1
Button13 - Mode2
Mode2
Button13 - Mode3
Mode3
Button13 - Mode4
Mode4
Button13 - Mode1
One button cycles all 4 modes.
ah cc bustr I understand. i cant be done. oh well, it was just a dream :),
semp
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If they are flying a plane with rudder pedals, they will want a zero deadband setting on rudder / z-axis. Otherwise, they will have an additional control input discontinuity when operating the rudder, which will make aiming harder.
its hard to aim with the rudder flopping from side to side when you dont want it to ...
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its hard to aim with the rudder flopping from side to side when you dont want it to ...
It doesn't flop from side to side. If when you set deadband to zero on your setup, you see this, you have major issues.
In my case, I use a powered USB hub for my joystick and pedals. Thus, I have stable and clean input signals from the hardware. However, due to the construction of the input devices (CH Products), there will often be a small positive or negative input. Deadband can be used to block these, but when using planes I prefer zero deadband for precise control. So long as I am using the input devices, these small deviations are drowned out by my deliberate inputs (bank, roll, slip, etc.). If I want to go hands-off the stick, I can use autopilot.
MH
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ah cc bustr I understand. i cant be done. oh well, it was just a dream :),
semp
semp, what do you think cant be done? You ask how to change modes during flight, it is very easy to do.
HiTech
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semp, what do you think cant be done? You ask how to change modes during flight, it is very easy to do.
HiTech
it's a joke boss. it's hard for me to understand complicated written instructions like the ones bustr wrote. I understand that there's a way to do it within a game like you and him explained it but I'll try to figure it out some how. :salute.
semp
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Keyboard Mapper:
Mode1 ctrl_left arrow
Mode2 ctrl_up arrow
Mode3 ctrl_right arrow
Mode4 ctrl_down arrow
Controller Mapper:
CH Throttel
Select Mode1 from Mode dropdown.
Mode1
Button13 - Mode2
Select Mode2 from Mode dropdown.
Mode2
Button13 - Mode3
Select Mode3 from Mode dropdown.
Mode3
Button13 - Mode4
Select Mode4 from Mode dropdown.
Mode4
Button13 - Mode1
One button cycles all 4 modes. Or any button you choose if the Control Manager shows it to you in the game as your single button number in each Mode - Mode1, Mode2, Mode3, Mode4.
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/7051/keybrdmp.gif)
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/317/modeprog.gif)
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It doesn't flop from side to side. If when you set deadband to zero on your setup, you see this, you have major issues.
In my case, I use a powered USB hub for my joystick and pedals. Thus, I have stable and clean input signals from the hardware. However, due to the construction of the input devices (CH Products), there will often be a small positive or negative input. Deadband can be used to block these, but when using planes I prefer zero deadband for precise control. So long as I am using the input devices, these small deviations are drowned out by my deliberate inputs (bank, roll, slip, etc.). If I want to go hands-off the stick, I can use autopilot.
MH
Tdeacon,
I think you can accomplish this by enabling scaling and adjusting the scaling for the mode and axis you want.
You can "dampen" the responces by moving the sliders to the bottom end of their movement, so if you want mode 2 z axis scaled to respond somewhat less move the sliders from left to right lower.
You can choose a parabolic curve or a stairstep type curve and this will essentially dampen the movements and you wont have to worry about the deadpan and/or dampening sliders.
This may take some experimenting until you get what you'd like but once set it will stay set to the scaling that works best for you! More than 1 way to skin a cat,HTC likely has too much on his mind to point out this.
YMMV. and hope this helps
:salute
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that sounds how I do it:
global: no damping, and juuust enough deadband to eliminate drift/spiking/crosscontrol on all axes.
linear scaling for aircraft and really flat geometric scaling for GVs on all axes (maybe 20% control at 50% input). the fine control either side of centre is essential for aiming and helps with driving too.
:)
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Thanks Morfiend; excellent suggestion; works perfectly.
In both cases, I get a deadband effect by adjusting the sliders as you suggest, even though the deadband setting is set to zero / no deadband. In particular, for Mode 2 only (GVs), I set the first scaling slider on the left (1-10%) to zero. My Mode 1 left slider (planes) remains as previously, with a non-zero setting.
MH
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Glad it helped.
I read this thread and thought it was mentioned but came back and saw that no one explained how to do what you wanted without using dampening.
I know when I used an X52 stick I had to do a similar type thing as it was just too twitchy in GV modes!
:salute
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Of course as a follow-up to this, one could still suggest that HTC either eliminate the deadband slider as redundant, or allow its settings to be saved to specific modes. Until they get time to do this, however, it's good to know there's a workaround using the sliders, which *can* be saved to specific modes.
MH
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Ahh but the sliders for deadpan and dampening arent redundant. I still need to use some dampening on certain controlers,say like my pedals,this can help me "not" receive the do not move controls so rapidly.
I do agree with you in that it would be nice to be able to save the settings for these sliders in the different modes,however there are work arounds that have been working for me for years!
:salute
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Agreed. Scaling has always solved issues better than the dampening/deadband could anyway. Right after the new GV changes came into effect I had to go back and change my GV modes (2 and 4) to tame the gun barrel transits. Since I use them a lot more in commander position now I wanted them to be scaled WAY back.
(http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/Chalenge08/GunTaming.jpg)