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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tracerfi on April 19, 2012, 05:34:17 PM

Title: MY ME 410
Post by: Tracerfi on April 19, 2012, 05:34:17 PM
WHERES IS IT  :furious
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: RedBull1 on April 19, 2012, 06:01:12 PM
You should see it, next to the HE-111...  :bolt:

 :D
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Butcher on April 19, 2012, 06:12:51 PM
Tracer, were you even in the game to take the vote? Lol.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: TheMercinary60 on April 19, 2012, 06:17:18 PM
im starting to think they must be diabetic if they havent finished that cake yet :noid :noid
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 19, 2012, 11:57:56 PM
im starting to think they must be diabetic if they havent finished that cake yet :noid :noid

Well, 45ft x 55ft x 15ft cake (had have a little more to completely cover it) makes for a slight meal. :)
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wagger on April 20, 2012, 12:57:45 AM
Didn't they tell you.  Two Weeks.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 22, 2012, 11:18:36 PM
oooops! I duplicated....
 :D
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: R 105 on April 23, 2012, 08:38:38 AM
2 Weeks.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: mthrockmor on April 23, 2012, 09:01:17 AM
Ya know....

I'm glad Grapevine, Texas has been goofluff'n around n all but now that football season is over time to get to work! That Me-410 should be right around the corner, like this week? At least post a freaking screen shot! :pray

New poll question: Should Skuzzy post a pic of the Me-410 by Friday the 27th of April?

+1 from me...

Boo
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Tracerfi on April 23, 2012, 04:27:49 PM
You should see it, next to the HE-111...  :bolt:

 :D

RedBull Don't Be an prettythang I was Just Asking.  RedBull if you act like a child Ill treat you like a child treat people the way you want to be treated ya  :old: Coot LOL
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: SmokinLoon on April 23, 2012, 04:51:37 PM
Why do I get the feeling that people think the Me410 is going to be a game changing airplane???    :headscratch:

I'll bet the 110G-2 is still going to be a better bomber killer and town buster.  I'll hold my judgement as to if it is a better tank killer until it arrives.  I'm not holding too much faith in the 50mm cannon (if we even get that variant).
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 23, 2012, 06:32:07 PM
Me410 = Mossie food and the Mossie ain't exactly a top end fighter.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Lusche on April 23, 2012, 06:34:58 PM
I'll bet the 110G-2 is still going to be a better bomber killer and town buster.  


As a bomber killer the extra speed over the 110 will come in very handy. And the Mk 103 is the perfect weapon for that role. But if escorts show up...  :uhoh
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 23, 2012, 06:40:06 PM
We should (hopefully) get the 50mm variant.  And yes, I WILL use it in the AT role until we get the BK37's for the Stuka.  There are times I use the 9T in the AT role (not in a good while though), with a decent amount of success (T-34's are tricky, but not immune to it).  And something tells me the BK5 in the 410 will be a little better than the 37mm in the 9T. :devil

As for bomber/town killer, I can't really say.  110 tails seem a LITTLE fragile against the auto ack (its fragile regardless).  I think the 410's tail is tougher (and tougher in general?) so will probably replace the 110 in the town busting role, until eny stops the 410.  What you might see, if the 410 is indeed tougher but has weaker guns/ords, is a 110/410 mix, with the 410's going on ahead to deack and the 110's following behind to do all the grunt work.  Not likely but I can hope. :aok  For bomber intercept, excluding rockets, it will probably fall on what gun packages we get on the 410.

Sure hope we get that BK5. :devil
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 23, 2012, 06:46:25 PM
110 tails seem a LITTLE fragile against the auto ack (its fragile regardless).
Back in AH1 another player and I did some tests.  The B-17G's tail took 17 hits from the P-38's M2 20mm cannon to remove.  The Lancaster Mk III's tail took 14 hits.  The Mosquito Mk VI took 3 hits.  The Bf110G-2 took 2 hits to remove.

I can't vouch that these numbers are still valid.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 23, 2012, 06:51:45 PM
Back in AH1 another player and I did some tests.  The B-17G's tail took 17 hits from the P-38's M2 20mm cannon to remove.  The Lancaster Mk III's tail took 14 hits.  The Mosquito Mk VI took 3 hits.  The Bf110G-2 took 2 hits to remove.

I can't vouch that these numbers are still valid.

It sure feels like it is still that way.  A majority of the time I'm shot down in a 110, my tail decided to bugger off all after a couple of pings. :bhead
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 24, 2012, 09:29:52 AM
"Me410 = Mossie food and the Mossie ain't exactly a top end fighter."

I think I already hear a whaambulance incoming. 410 is capable of pulling more angles with a better snapshot ability and in a knife fight they should be rather equal. Mossie is faster but the MK103 rounds are still faster than Mossie.  :D

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 24, 2012, 09:33:02 AM
410 is capable of pulling more angles with a better snapshot ability and in a knife fight they should be rather equal.
What makes you say that?  I don't have any turn radius data, but the wingloading data I have seen does not paint a favorable picture for the Me410.

As far as I can tell, all performance meters, other than perhaps roll rate, go to the Mosquito VI and firepower goes to the Me410, not that either will survive being in the sights of the other.

I will readily admit that I expect the Me410 to dethrone the Mosquito Mk VI as having the best air-to-air gun package in AH.

EDIT:
Based on quick calcs from unverified data:
Wing loading for the Me410 ranges from about 37lbs.sq/ft empty to about 63lbs.sq/ft fully loaded.

Wing loading for the Mosquito Mk VI ranges from about 29lbs.sq/ft empty to about 48lbs.sq/ft fully loaded.

Wing loading for the Mosquito Mk VI in AH with 50% fuel, overload ammo and no bombs or rockets with an all up weight of 18463lbs is 40.667lbs.sq/ft.

If my calculations are correct an empty Me410 barely has lower wing loading than a Mosquito Mk VI loaded for air-to-air.  What we need to find out is how the slats and flaps on the Me410 perform.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Reaper90 on April 24, 2012, 10:20:03 AM
if you act like a child Ill treat you like a child treat people the way you want to be treated ya  :old: Coot LOL


Easy there, AngerBoy, I thought your parents were gonna pull the plug on AH due to the tantrums?  :rofl
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Slade on April 24, 2012, 10:37:43 AM
oop  wrong thread...
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: danny76 on April 24, 2012, 11:53:29 AM
RedBull Don't Be an prettythang I was Just Asking.  RedBull if you act like a child Ill treat you like a child treat people the way you want to be treated ya  :old: Coot LOL



such as, without the common decency of punctuation? :aok
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 24, 2012, 12:06:08 PM
"What makes you say that?"

Mossie uses a "fast" low drag wingprofile which has limited angles performance where as 410 has a NACA 18% root profile making it a better performer in angles, add slats to that and it is a very much different performer in angles fight. The problem for 410 is that is does not have enough engine power to carry out such fight for long. I recall that Mossie has better powerloading figures so that pretty much gives a clue what is preferred tactic for these two when they run into each other.

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: danny76 on April 24, 2012, 12:39:11 PM
i just hope it has the option of rear cannon nacelles. It'll make a change to be able fire back at the guys perpetually hammering my tail............should be careful writing things like that :bolt:
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 24, 2012, 02:37:35 PM
i just hope it has the option of rear cannon nacelles. It'll make a change to be able fire back at the guys perpetually hammering my tail............should be careful writing things like that :bolt:
Do you mean the 13mm machine guns?  It didn't have any cannons facing rearward.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: morfiend on April 24, 2012, 02:59:39 PM
 Yes and the rear guns aren't optional,if anything it should be optional to remove the rear firring Mg's!






    :salute
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: mthrockmor on April 24, 2012, 03:03:27 PM
Did 410 come with option of no rear firing guns? In any case, I'm about to start flinging mashed potatos with gravy like its animal house if we don't get this bird soon!!

At least post some pics...tease me good and proper. This stuff about wing loading, slats and big round things like engines, big ol' tightly wrapped May West type gun packages are just making me shiver. Sheesh!!

Boo
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Tracerfi on April 24, 2012, 06:07:23 PM
Easy there, AngerBoy, I thought your parents were gonna pull the plug on AH due to the tantrums?  :rofl

Yea Not Now It seems they have given me another chance to redeem my self other then that I speak the truth many people have said this "If you are gonna act like a child you gonna be treated like one" That truth in life I dont like it but who does Ok Sorry Reaper90 But I can argue  :salute reaper90 and dont be a wisecracker
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Butcher on April 24, 2012, 06:07:45 PM
Did 410 come with option of no rear firing guns? In any case, I'm about to start flinging mashed potatos with gravy like its animal house if we don't get this bird soon!!

At least post some pics...tease me good and proper. This stuff about wing loading, slats and big round things like engines, big ol' tightly wrapped May West type gun packages are just making me shiver. Sheesh!!

Boo

The 410 was an option machine, you could add or subtract the pair of 13mm in the rear - it was simply a blister that was added so the barrel sticks out, remove the blister and you get a flat panel.

There are so many weapon packages I can't even start to only wish we could have 20% of the total packages.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 24, 2012, 06:18:38 PM
The 410 was an option machine, you could add or subtract the pair of 13mm in the rear - it was simply a blister that was added so the barrel sticks out, remove the blister and you get a flat panel.

There are so many weapon packages I can't even start to only wish we could have 20% of the total packages.


I am hoping we get the BK5 for it.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: morfiend on April 24, 2012, 06:23:38 PM
Did 410 come with option of no rear firing guns? In any case, I'm about to start flinging mashed potatos with gravy like its animal house if we don't get this bird soon!!

At least post some pics...tease me good and proper. This stuff about wing loading, slats and big round things like engines, big ol' tightly wrapped May West type gun packages are just making me shiver. Sheesh!!

Boo



  Boo,

   There's an extensive thread about the 410,Moot included most if not all the optiona available.

    Might be worth a search!



    :salute
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Melvin on April 24, 2012, 06:25:27 PM
BK5?


This ain't Burger King.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 24, 2012, 07:15:48 PM
I think Pyro kinda hinted that we'd get the BK5 option on it.  I will say I'd be far more concerned with an Me410 carrying MK103s than one with the BK5.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 24, 2012, 08:40:07 PM
I think Pyro kinda hinted that we'd get the BK5 option on it.  I will say I'd be far more concerned with an Me410 carrying MK103s than one with the BK5.

If I'm in a tank, I'll be a bit more afraid of a 410 sporting the BK5 personally. :lol  I know that a Yak 9T can take out tanks if you hit them in their "sweet spots".  Since the BK5 IS a better cannon than the 37mm on the 9T, yeah... :noid

Against bombers, I honestly can't say.  If it performs well enough, I may take the BK5 to use against bombers from time to time.  Chances are though, I'll use it in the AT role.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Noir on April 25, 2012, 10:03:19 AM
its been 4 months we had nothing new... :noid

What is HTC cooking?  :furious
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 25, 2012, 01:07:49 PM
"What is HTC cooking?"

Taylorcraft L-2 "Grasshopper"?  :aok

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Butcher on April 25, 2012, 01:12:06 PM
Me410 won the voting and we got the Storch instead.

/Hitech trolled us all
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 25, 2012, 02:47:13 PM
its been 4 months we had nothing new... :noid

What is HTC cooking?  :furious
I am hoping for something like the B-26, Bf110s, Ju88 or Lancaster to be redone along with the adding of the Me410.  A Tu-2 would be a nice surprise as well.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Volron on April 25, 2012, 03:14:27 PM
If they go off the usage, it will be the Lancaster and/or B-26.  If they are doing it by country, then we are looking at the 110 and/or Ju-88 (based off of Karnak's list).  If they only add the 410 and do a surprise plane, I can't say what possible surprise plane would be added.  I doubt it'll be a bomber though I am hoping that it is.  They may go all routes with the Lancaster and 110's being redone, adding the 410 (of course) and the addition of a surprise plane. :x
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 25, 2012, 03:43:18 PM
Given how long it has been without a screenshot I was just listing the big multi-crew, multi-engined aircraft.  :p

Thought about tossing the TBM-3 on the list too...

And Boston Mk III/A-20G....

And Ki-67...
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Noir on April 26, 2012, 05:05:38 AM
let's just hope they don't give more spawn camping tools.

"What is HTC cooking?"

Taylorcraft L-2 "Grasshopper"?  :aok

-C+

what would you do with a L-2? It couldn't carry 2 people and a radio, so it doesn't even fit the observer role! No supps or smokes either....
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: MAINER on April 26, 2012, 07:15:18 AM
HITECH! WHY U NO ME410?  :bhead :bhead
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 26, 2012, 07:38:25 PM
Why do I get the feeling that people think the Me410 is going to be a game changing airplane???    :headscratch:

I'll bet the 110G-2 is still going to be a better bomber killer and town buster.  I'll hold my judgement as to if it is a better tank killer until it arrives.  I'm not holding too much faith in the 50mm cannon (if we even get that variant).

NOT! We simply want to fly it!! We're bored & want something new. Aren't you even curious? Game Changer?  :huh
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 26, 2012, 07:41:20 PM
Me410 = Mossie food and the Mossie ain't exactly a top end fighter.

I wanna see that! Mossies rarely eat anything on a consistent basis...IMO, not impressed with the plywood flying boat....unless I'm bomb****ing at an undefended spawn without any Ossies/Wirbies, etc.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 26, 2012, 09:06:46 PM
I wanna see that! Mossies rarely eat anything on a consistent basis.
Most people don't know how to use it and give up when attacked by another fighter.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: icepac on April 26, 2012, 09:24:07 PM
Mossies are currently 110 food.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 27, 2012, 12:15:18 AM
Mossies are currently 110 food.
This tour the Mosquito has 27 kills of the Bf110G-2 and the Bf110G-2 has 13 kills of the Mosquito.

Last tour finished with a score of 45 to 35 in favor of the Mosquito.

Personally, I have only ever lost a single Mosquito to a Bf110.

So, no, Bf110s do not do well in combat with Mosquitoes.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: chris3 on April 27, 2012, 02:57:27 AM
moin

thats true, if its come to a dogfight between mossie and a 110 the mossie will mostly win, if the 110 isn t able to get a snap shoot on it.
i tried it a lot but if you don t fly a light 110 (50% fuel and only smal gunpaket) you will not have a big chance to get on the mossie. exspezialiy if the mossi pilot knews what he is doing. but luckily the most dont hehe.

cu christian
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Lusche on April 27, 2012, 03:05:30 AM
This tour the Mosquito has 27 kills of the Bf110G-2 and the Bf110G-2 has 13 kills of the Mosquito.

Last tour finished with a score of 45 to 35 in favor of the Mosquito.


2011 Late War Arena Mossie vs 110G K/D  : 1.35
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Noir on April 27, 2012, 05:00:11 AM
110 vs Mossie, the first to get a gun solution wins, can't be a long fight  :D

My expectation of the me410 is a twin engined 190, sharing its crappy sustained turns characteristics but also its diving ability...which one is the better bomber hunter depends if the mk103 is modelled...
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: titanic3 on April 27, 2012, 07:21:42 AM
This is gonna be my permanent replacement for the 110. Can't wait!

Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Noir on April 27, 2012, 07:28:20 AM
This is gonna be my permanent replacement for the 110. Can't wait!



Thats what they said too.... :D
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: titanic3 on April 27, 2012, 07:31:59 AM
Thats what they said too.... :D

Oh yea? Well my 410 is better than yours :neener:!

Question: Did the 410 serve in the Eastern front?
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 27, 2012, 12:40:12 PM
110 vs Mossie, the first to get a gun solution wins, can't be a long fight  :D

Depends.  I shot one Bf110G-2 down using just the .303s on the Mossie.  Well, it was still a one pass kill as he was so clumsy I was able to drill his port wing at the #2 engine nacelle all the way in and the wing came off when I reached about 50 yards.

That was probably more of a humiliation kill than I had to do though, it wasn't like I was anywhere near out of 20mm ammo.


As to the Me410, I am looking forward to it quite a bit even though I will see it in the gunsight more than from the cockpit.  I am keen to see what loadout options it has and how it stacks up on time to target with ordnance when coming in at 10,000ft.  I doubt it will dethrone the P-38L on that metric, but while it might not beat the Mosquito Mk VI on time to target, but it should demolish it in terms of destruction it can inflict.  If it beats the Bf110 in time to target it will take the #3 spot on that metric.  All the single engined aircraft handle ordnance comparatively poorly.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: mthrockmor on April 27, 2012, 02:36:37 PM
Karnak, there could be a variable your info does not reflect. When someone is going to up for odd combat, how many up a Mossie? When they are going to deack a town how many up a 110? My point, I know of many who up the Mossie for the challenge of ACM. I only know of a few who up the 110 for the same challenge.

If we could control for those who are upping for sheer ACM and attempt to compare numbers there I think the numbers may be different. I can't demonstrate that with numbers though 'purpose' may change those numbers. Just thinking out loud.

To this end, when we do finally get the 410 I think the numbers will change. I don't read of too many sticks wanting to deack in the 410 but discussing ACM. I think we will see many more upping with one purpose in mind, killing Mossies, 38s, PonyDs, etc. I know I will.

Boo
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 27, 2012, 02:57:00 PM
We shall see, but by the numbers it seems to be starting from a disadvantage in that department.  It may surprise us all, but based on its historical reputation that does not seem likely.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: morfiend on April 27, 2012, 04:22:12 PM
 I think the 410 has an undeserving bad rep,against single engine escorts it didnt fair well but it had devestating effects on the 4 engine bombers.A single squadron scored 64 bombers during "big week" and several escort fighters.
  The 410 were successful at sinking ships in the baltics and there had to be a reason they armed it with tungsen core 30mm rounds,although I'd have to research how well they faired aganst Gv's.


Karnak,you time on target has me curious,how do you determine that?  Remember the 410 has a 6x20mm loadout with about 1700 rounds,thats plenty of trigger time. I might even be able to score a kill or 2 with that amount of firepower! :devil

    Oh and dont forget the 410 is equipped with dive flaps so that might give it more "hangtime" over target also.

   I'd still pick the mossie 1v1 over the 410 but if the 410 handles anything like the 110c then it will be a force to be reckoned with! Personally I cant wait to try out the Mk103's that will likely be my loadout of choice



   :salute
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 27, 2012, 04:26:54 PM
Not "time on target" but rather "time to target".

I think the Me410 will be excellent for some things, but air-to-air will be a challenge in it.

As to the MK103s, those are probably going to dethrone the Mosquito Mk VI as the fighter with the best air-to-air gun package.  They are the only aspect of the Me410 that makes me at all nervous about engaging it.

Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: morfiend on April 27, 2012, 05:14:03 PM
 What I'm curious about is the weight factor,what will it weigh with the Mk103's verses what will it weigh with the 6 20mm loadout.  IIRC the 2x20mm version carries 700 rounds of ammo shared by 2 guns were as the mossie has 4 guns so the trigger time will be longer.





   :salute
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Lusche on April 27, 2012, 05:15:13 PM
As to the MK103s, those are probably going to dethrone the Mosquito Mk VI as the fighter with the best air-to-air gun package.  They are the only aspect of the Me410 that makes me at all nervous about engaging it.

Of course it's all speculation for now... but when in a fighter, the 410's armament probably would not make me more nervous than the 110's, the Ta 152's, or any other ultra-armed fighter.
But if I were in a bomber and notice that 410 closing in on me, even from dead 6 ...   :uhoh ... better gonna practice my long range 0.50 sniping skill  :joystick:
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 27, 2012, 05:38:03 PM
Its the muzzle velocity on the MK103 that makes it more alarming from a fighter stand point.  The MK108s are a lot easier to avoid due to their absolutely horrible muzzle velocities.

One thing is that we don't even know what loadouts we're getting on the Me410 yet.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 28, 2012, 01:21:22 AM
Just took a wing off of a P51D from roughly 1.5k away with Il-2's NS-37. Not that that is anything special in itself, but that's what the MK103 can do aswell, basically.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Ruah on April 28, 2012, 08:36:24 AM
the mk103 is going to be scary.

I think we are all looking forward to flying this monster
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: icepac on April 28, 2012, 08:51:43 AM
How about Karnak duel in his Mossie VS me in a 110?
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 28, 2012, 08:54:58 AM
How about Karnak duel in his Mossie VS me in a 110?
That could be arranged, but I'd say it is more a test between us than the aircraft.  I'm mediocre at best.

How about you fight Batfink, you in a 110 and him in a Mossie.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: icepac on April 28, 2012, 09:01:22 AM

Please tell whoever you convince to back up your words (since you can't) that this entails both aircraft taking off 2 sectors away and whatever happens.....happens.

Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 28, 2012, 09:43:10 AM
Please tell whoever you convince to back up your words (since you can't) that this entails both aircraft taking off 2 sectors away and whatever happens.....happens.


As I said, I am game to give it a go, but if you pretend it means anything about the two aircraft you're a loon.

The Mosquito is faster, climbs a bit better at lower altitudes and has better guns for fighter-vs-fighter combat.  The Bf110G-2 turns better.

If you're arguing that the Bf110G-2 is a better fighter than the Mosquito Mk VI you're basically arguing that the A6M5b is a better fighter than the P-51D.

And in a duel it may well be as turning ability matters more in duels.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Rich52 on April 28, 2012, 10:22:36 AM
Im not familiar with this cannon that "might" be on the 410. Is it going to be a tank killer or not?
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 28, 2012, 10:23:55 AM
Im not familiar with this cannon that "might" be on the 410. Is it going to be a tank killer or not?
Some of the tanks with thinner armor will be at risk, but it won't have AP ammo in any of its guns so far as I know.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Rich52 on April 28, 2012, 10:30:48 AM
Some of the tanks with thinner armor will be at risk, but it won't have AP ammo in any of its guns so far as I know.

I figured. I have no data on it being used against armor.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 28, 2012, 10:33:03 AM
I figured. I have no data on it being used against armor.

HS129 used MK101/103's AP ammo with good success.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: icepac on April 28, 2012, 10:34:52 AM
We've been flying the 410 in another sim and it seems the big gun package put's less firepower downrange than then 110G...........unless you're beyond D1500.......then the big gun does well.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Rich52 on April 28, 2012, 06:16:39 PM
HS129 used MK101/103's AP ammo with good success.

Respectfully, I never knew the HS129 did anything with good success.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 28, 2012, 06:45:21 PM
Not arguing with the states, but I don't remember ever getting my 110 killed by a Mossie unless it was 4:1 or better against me. I have killed a lot of Mossies in my 110...so? I think Mossie is like a spit in that it's very user friendly especially to newb flyers.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Krusty on April 28, 2012, 08:55:04 PM
I think that's more a reflection of your familiarity with the ride and easy targets than it is a commentary on aircraft capabilities. I think overall the mossie in its "fixed CoG" state is a superior platform to the 110G. Vs a Me410? It will be entirely down to what loadouts each plane has. The different weights between fully loaded and stripped down light version of the 410 could be many thousands of pounds, which would affect performance significantly.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 28, 2012, 09:38:27 PM
I think Mossie is like a spit in that it's very user friendly especially to newb flyers.
Have you tried the Mossie?  Like a Spit?  Easy for newbs?  Sure, it doesn't suck, but there are numerous extremely nasty matchups you can have in it.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 29, 2012, 02:11:12 AM
Respectfully, I never knew the HS129 did anything with good success.

Well, now you do.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 29, 2012, 05:37:51 AM
Thin wingprofile with small rudder and round rear fuselage and engine necelles giving added direction stability only in high speed I'd say Mossie is a potential flat spinner if the weight distribution happens to be to the rear. Could be a danger in bombload but in fighter configuration all the weight seems to be near CoL. I don't recall having too much trouble with directional stability or tail skidding in stall fight flying a Mossie. But in 110, well there are quite funky stalls that I have entered in a 110, although I don't really understand why 110 and Mossie would be much different in that sense.

Also consider the size of the tail in 410 for comparison (or A-20). 410 lacks the long engine nacelles of Mossie but I'd say that due to its larger tail the 410 could be more stable in stalling condition due to better stabilizing momentum of tail. Although I wonder what effect the long nacelles in Mossie give in directing the propeller thrust considering power on stalls?

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 29, 2012, 05:52:37 AM
Charge, have you seen this?

...accident at Barton aerodrome Manchester 21-7-96, this video was used at the inquest.
http://youtu.be/Ag5ut3tP3ZM (http://youtu.be/Ag5ut3tP3ZM)

EDIT/Now, that I remember you've probably have and read the accident report as well. You mentioned it at some thread./EDIT
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 29, 2012, 07:08:07 AM
Yes, it recall the problem was possibly in the incorrectly serviced carburettor in the other engine causing it to briefly stall in critical maneuver phase.

Terrible loss.   :(

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 29, 2012, 08:23:37 AM
Losing an engine on take off was often fatal for the Mossie.  I am not sure about the Me410, but it seems likely it would not handle such an event well either.

I am not sure what to expect performancewise for the Me410.  In many ways one might expect it to be similar to the Bf110, but the wing loading is so much higher on the Me410 it is hard to accept that they will be that similar.

I know the Me410 had changed wings to address the problem, but does anybody know what the Me210's handling problems were and if the Me410's changed wings completely fixed it?
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 29, 2012, 08:44:15 AM
Losing an engine on take off was often fatal for the Mossie.  I am not sure about the Me410, but it seems likely it would not handle such an event well either.

This is rather universal with all twins (with engines in the wings), twins have min single engine speeds specified because of this. But what was painfully clear looking that film that once you started having problems with directional control it really takes a while before the plane stabilizes.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Charge on April 29, 2012, 09:16:21 AM
"I know the Me410 had changed wings to address the problem, but does anybody know what the Me210's handling problems were and if the Me410's changed wings completely fixed it?"

Not much detailed info on that but from pictures it can be seen that the wing planform geometry changed pretty much and that cured the stability problem adequately along with lengthened fuselage. With the old wing and short fuselage the 210 was too unstable which was improved by lengthening the fuselage already in 210. But the final and adequate improvement was only done with the new wing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Me_210_w_trzech_rzutach.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/Messerschmitt/Me-410/Me-410.jpg

***

I recall that sometimes Mossie drivers switched off and feathered the other engine to save fuel while cruising if there was a doubt of the fuel to last to home base. Thus in cruising speeds there were no directional problems which could not be compensated by slight trim changes. Need to check this one though...

-C+
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: chris3 on April 29, 2012, 09:34:14 AM
moin

the 410 is tha origine desinge of the 210, the 210 were made to save resorces so that cut a few things, and these causes all the problems the 210 did have. the 210 was alidelbit shorter as the 410 to save material. sonds funny but it happens.

after thay had notice all the bad problems of the 210 thay go back to the original desinge andt taht was called 410, after the remodeling i havend read anything about its bad behevior again.

cu christian
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Rich52 on April 29, 2012, 10:31:25 AM
Well, now you do.

I see words only on a web page only. Show me some facts about this slow, clumsy airplane being an accomplished tank killer.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Denniss on April 29, 2012, 11:12:03 AM
Mtt made the short-tail Me 210 to increase instability with the intention to increase maneuverability. Mvr was good but the instability was fatal and even experienced pilots had problems - image green newbies flying those unstable aircraft.
Reverting back to the initial length tail improved the situation somewhat but only after modifying the wing with additional slats etc the 210 got actually usable for the average pilot.

The Hs 129 was quite successful as tank killer especially after reducing/curing the engine problems they had with the french engines by installing improved dust filters. I'm not taling about the overloaded versions with BK7.5 cannon but of the standard version with MK 103.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Wmaker on April 29, 2012, 12:16:55 PM
I see words only on a web page only. Show me some facts about this slow, clumsy airplane being an accomplished tank killer.

It is just as slow and clumsy as il-2 which is widely celebrated for its achievements. The reason why HS129 isn't as celebrated is the fact that it had black crosses instead of red stars and as Soviet Union was able to build over 30000 il-2s, Germany managed to only built a bit over 1000 HS129s. I can give you plenty of examples of how successful it was when I have time.

The plane definitely had its faults, but no more than il-2 basically.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 29, 2012, 01:45:28 PM
Yes, I've flown it extensively, just stating my opinion, not empirical data, I no longer enjoy flying it due mostly to my personal experiences of being very easy to kill. IMO it's kind of a "One Hit Wonder", the plywood flies apart way to easily. I figured it's modeled realistically.  :salute
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Karnak on April 29, 2012, 01:51:21 PM
Yes, I've flown it extensively, just stating my opinion, not empirical data, I no longer enjoy flying it due mostly to my personal experiences of being very easy to kill. IMO it's kind of a "One Hit Wonder", the plywood flies apart way to easily. I figured it's modeled realistically.  :salute
Erm, it is one of the toughest aircraft in the game.  It used to be rather fragile and burst into flame easily, but that has been fixed.  It now matches its historical toughness as plywood more damage resistant than aluminum.

Still, that doesn't match your prior claim that it was an easy mode aircraft flown by newbies like a Spitfire.  It clearly is not otherwise it would be far more common than it is.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: W7LPNRICK on April 29, 2012, 01:57:20 PM
That's why I said IMO, ie: my experiences may not be your, but that's OK I don't need anyone to confirm how I feel about my past experience about it. If it has been remodeled, I'll take another look at it.  :D
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Rich52 on April 30, 2012, 11:47:47 AM
It is just as slow and clumsy as il-2 which is widely celebrated for its achievements. The reason why HS129 isn't as celebrated is the fact that it had black crosses instead of red stars and as Soviet Union was able to build over 30000 il-2s, Germany managed to only built a bit over 1000 HS129s. I can give you plenty of examples of how successful it was when I have time.

The plane definitely had its faults, but no more than il-2 basically.

Didnt have a bomb bay. Didnt have a rear gunner. Didnt have PTABs. I doubt it handled as well as the IL2 or was armored as well. The two engines were a hindrance compared to the one engine IL2. Its views sucked, especially without a rear gunner. Still the flaws in design, development, and production numbers of German tactical aircraft do reflect the impact the Brit and Yank bomber forces made.
Title: Re: MY ME 410
Post by: Xasthur on May 01, 2012, 07:19:27 AM
Most people don't know how to use it and give up when attacked by another fighter.

Damn right, I got absolutely chewed up by a Mossie in a P51D at 15k.

I underestimated it and was lucky to make it back home oiled and missing parts.