Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: jamdive on April 26, 2012, 10:49:20 PM
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Why is it that you can richochet 2 shots off a panzer with a tiger inside 1000 yards and the panzer one shots the tiger. Also explain why it is that it takes 2 to 3 shots to kill a sherman which happens to have some of the poorest armour of the war? Like Ive always said, the gv modeling has absolutely no predictability what so ever. The whole idea of where you hit the thing is rediculous. If you decide to up a high perk tank you should at least have some comfort in knowing its standoff capabilities and not have everything be a damn mystery. Just like landing a PT boat. Whats the secret? Why is everything a secret?
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M4 is wet storage the ammo doesnt ignite you need to aim for the sweet spots. the tiger just had an unlucky shot theres a point on the pnzrIV that a shot wont penetrate on the frontal armor its below the plate holding the driver viewport you rarely get a kill shooting there. aim 3 feet higher and you got the kill...
either that or uh... aim for the turret like everyone does on a panzer? :confused:
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Why is it that you can richochet 2 shots off a panzer with a tiger inside 1000 yards and the panzer one shots the tiger.
Because the Panzer was in a superior position to take the shot and the Tiger was in a bad position to take the shot. Why'd you think? Oh right, you didn't bother thinking...
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Also the M4 had some fairly good armor; with slope its ~93mm thick. Better than the T-34 taken all in all.
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Also the M4 had some fairly good armor; with slope its ~93mm thick. Better than the T-34 taken all in all.
Ahhh...that must be why they fared so well against Tigers in WW2
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Ahhh...that must be why they fared so well against Tigers in WW2
Did they?
Well, in AH they don't really ;)
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Neither the M4 or the T-34 fared well against Tigers. Both losing at a rate of 10:1 or more. The T-34 earned its reputation against earlier opponents (winter '41-'42). When the M4 showed up a year later it faced a German Panzerwaffe that had adapted and modernized to combat the T-34. There is very little to chose between them.
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I listened really carefully...
All I heard was :cry :cry with a bit 'o :ahand mixed in.
However, it was an entertaining way to start the morning.
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I listened really carefully...
All I heard was :cry :cry with a bit 'o :ahand mixed in.
However, it was an entertaining way to start the morning.
:rofl
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I will get in on this.
Since the GV update (which I by the way :cry my bellybutton off about), I have found tanking to be way more fun. Engagements are likely now taking place at reasonable ranges. I have found, that also things are completely unpredictable when it comes to GVing. A couple of days ago a Tiger II was running away, I was in an M18 and I put three shots into his engine compartment, straight 6. Not even a mobility kill. When I up a tiger, I have been one shot frontal from M18s. I just dont get it either.
I still enjoy it, frustrating as it may seem. Take today for example, I killed more guys in a 75mm sherman, more 1 shot turret kills, then the last two days of 76mm M4 or M18 what gives, my aim has not changed, I just dont get it. That they say is that.
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Ahhh...that must be why they fared so well against Tigers in WW2
They didn't fare well against Tiger's, and neither did T-34's. They didn't have anything that could retaliate against that 88mm in kind, so its kind of a poor comparison.
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Rounds don't "hit" where your sprite appears, film it and watch extremely close - you probably seen a dead hull hit, when on film it glanced off the hull and did no damage.
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Did they?
Well, in AH they don't really ;)
sarcasm goes undetected
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sarcasm goes undetected
well bj... sarcasm goes undetected for you more than him.... :rofl
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sarcasm goes undetected
But on who's side? ;)
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A couple of days ago a Tiger II was running away, I was in an M18 and I put three shots into his engine compartment, straight 6. Not even a mobility kill. When I up a tiger, I have been one shot frontal from M18s. I just dont get it either.
What you don't get is that the Tigers didn't have a vulnerable butt. It's a Hollywood myth. The Tiger I's rear armor is as thick as the side armor, or a Panzer IV's front glacis plate (80 mm), which is only 20 mm less than its front plate (100 mm). Tiger II has the same 80 mm rear plate, but with a 60 degree slope added to it, making it as tough as a Panther's front. These tanks were self propelled bunkers designed to drive trough enemy lines and keep going (breakthrough tank); they didn't have any weak facing to exploit like in the movies.
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What you don't get is that the Tigers didn't have a vulnerable butt. It's a Hollywood myth. The Tiger I's rear armor is as thick as the side armor, or a Panzer IV's front glacis plate (80 mm), which is only 20 mm less than its front plate (100 mm). Tiger II has the same 80 mm rear plate, but with a 60 degree slope added to it, making it as tough as a Panther's front. These tanks were self propelled bunkers designed to drive trough enemy lines and keep going (breakthrough tank); they didn't have any weak facing to exploit like in the movies.
actually predator the tigers were meant to sit back and shoot at range. they weren't meant for driving the foward advance as much as you think but to support the advance. the armor was effective at range as long as they stayed at range
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(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12190/crybaby.gif) (http://www.smileyvault.com/)
A whine has been recorded both in the BBS and in the MA on 200 tonight since bombers decided to come and help alleviate some of the spawn camping at a GV base. The thing I can't understand is that that someone in Aces high whining about not being able to one shot kill someone else just because my Sgt. Rock comic book collection said that it was supposed to happen.
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actually predator the tigers were meant to sit back and shoot at range. they weren't meant for driving the foward advance as much as you think but to support the advance. the armor was effective at range as long as they stayed at range
The Tiger was a prewar design. So was the German concept of the Schwere Panzerabteilung. They were elite battalion-sized units, equipped with Tiger I, and later Tiger II. Originally intended to fight on the offensive during breakthrough operations, the German late-war realities required them to be used in a defensive posture by providing heavy fire support and counter-attacking enemy armored breakthroughs, often organised into ad-hoc Kampfgruppen. During any major Panzer advance after 1942 you'd find Tigers at the spearhead of the Panzerkeil. Typically Tigers formed the point, Panthers the base, with the Panzer IVs and Panzer IIIs forming the wings.
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But on who's side? ;)
Hmmm....I plead 5th.... :D
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The Tiger was a prewar design. So was the German concept of the Schwere Panzerabteilung. They were elite battalion-sized units, equipped with Tiger I, and later Tiger II. Originally intended to fight on the offensive during breakthrough operations, the German late-war realities required them to be used in a defensive posture by providing heavy fire support and counter-attacking enemy armored breakthroughs, often organised into ad-hoc Kampfgruppen. During any major Panzer advance after 1942 you'd find Tigers at the spearhead of the Panzerkeil. Typically Tigers formed the point, Panthers the base, with the Panzer IVs and Panzer IIIs forming the wings.
very thorough pred. can i see your sources of this info? any GV tactical knowledge i'm interested in seeing <S>
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Because the Panzer was in a superior position to take the shot and the Tiger was in a bad position to take the shot. Why'd you think? Oh right, you didn't bother thinking...
You are obviously the one who hasn't bothered to think. I made no referance to any shooting positions. If I can hit it in the side 3 times it should be dead. Maybe a broadside shot registers as a bad position to shoot from in your world.
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very thorough pred. can i see your sources of this info? any GV tactical knowledge i'm interested in seeing <S>
Not saying I nessicarily believe him without sources, but it DOES make sense:
The most heavily armed and armored Tiger tanks at the tip of the spear, the Panthers with their superior long-range firepower (due to the flatter trajecotry of the 75mm L'70) but weaker side armor in the middle, being protected on the flanks by the more weakly armored but much more expendable Panzer III/IV's.
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actually predator the tigers were meant to sit back and shoot at range. they weren't meant for driving the foward advance as much as you think but to support the advance. the armor was effective at range as long as they stayed at range
the Tiger had quite a few rolls, not exactly an armored pill box, this is just what it excelled it (read up on Battle of Villers-Bocage to see what a tiger does on offense).
It was a able to do armed recon, a roll which it excelled it - quite a few battles I read up on is where a tiger goes out hunting and catches a dozen or more russian tanks being fueled before a fight.
Yet a simple bolt action anti tank rifle can kill a driver and stop a Tiger in its tracks, the biggest misconception people read about is the Tiger was it was going to fail miserably as a breakthrough tank - it's gas guzzling engine would of made it a terrible assault tank.
What it excelled in was later in the war when the Germans went on defense and the Tiger excelled in defensive positions, I honestly think the Panther had a better job at being a breakthrough tank, being fast and heavily armed - much better recon tank then a Tiger.
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Depends on the situation. If you're attacking a fairly well defended possition, the Tiger would be better. Why? Because its 88mm has better HE rounds, and is better able to tackle dug-in possitions. In addition to this, its thicker side armor would provide better protection against flank shots, and thus enable the tiger to press the attack further than the Panther would be able to.
So, yeah, it would be a less effective tank when on a general offensive, but when you need to smash something up and break through defenses, the tiger is the tank you want.
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very thorough pred. can i see your sources of this info? any GV tactical knowledge i'm interested in seeing <S>
In my head :)
I don't really know how many books I have on tanks, but perhaps fifty if not more. If you want online sources then onwar.com is a nice site to quickly look up statistics on the many WWII tanks. If you're more interested in Panzer history achtungpanzer.com is the site for you.
Tiger profiles from those sites:
http://www.onwar.com/tanks/germany/data/tiger1.htm
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-vi-tiger-ausf-e-sd-kfz-181.htm
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Not saying I nessicarily believe him without sources, but it DOES make sense:
The most heavily armed and armored Tiger tanks at the tip of the spear, the Panthers with their superior long-range firepower (due to the flatter trajecotry of the 75mm L'70) but weaker side armor in the middle, being protected on the flanks by the more weakly armored but much more expendable Panzer III/IV's.
There were two goals of the wedge formation (Panzerkeil). First to have the heaviest armor at the point since they would bear the brunt of the enemy fire. Secondly to give the formation depth so that the enemy gunners would have to re-range when switching targets.
The Panther was designed as a stand-off tank with a long reach gun and heavy front plate, but soft sides and rear. It's relatively easy to keep your front plate between you and the enemy at long range. The Tiger was almost equally armored on all sides since it would be taking hits from not only the front, but sides and rear. Being at the tip of the spear means you are more in danger of being flanked by fast medium tanks. The Tiger II was designed as a big Panther adding more armor to the front only, but retained the still formidable 80 mm side and rear armor. At this time in the war even the Germans realized that they had lost the strategic initiative and needed tanks suited for defensive roles more than offensive.
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Rounds don't "hit" where your sprite appears, film it and watch extremely close - you probably seen a dead hull hit, when on film it glanced off the hull and did no damage.
Then why have hit sprites at all if they don't represent where your projectile has hit?
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I think he means that you get a different sprite if you ricochet, but that sprite doesn't always appear where you hit the tank.
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The Tiger I was not a pre war design. Porsche got the go ahead to design a heavy tank in the Fall of 1940. The Tiger II was not a follow on to the Panther (in concept or deployment) it was a follow on to the Tiger I which it was intended to replace. The Tiger I and Tiger II were heavy tanks operated in independant heavy tank battalions at panzer corps level. At 56 and 68 tons they lacked the cross country mobility of the Panzer IV and Panther and were certainly impaired to some degree by that in breakthrough operations.
The Panther as good as it was was (and being 43 tons) it was classed as a medium tank and deployed the same as a Panzer IV and was assigned to regular medium tank battalions just like a Panzer IV. It was not treated by the Germans as a heavy tank as it lacked the heavy side and rear armor. It was meant to replace the Panzer IV as the standard medium tank eventually but like many other plans the Germans ran out of time.
Panzer IV > Panther. Mediums.
Tiger I > Tiger II. Heavys.
As was the case of the JS-2 it was not a replacement for T-34s and the Pershing was not a replacement for Shermans.
As for the Hollywood myth stuff thats partially correct but its not a myth that the Tigers (and Panthers, and quite frankly most WW2 AFVs) were more vulnerable to shots to the non-frontal areas be that side or rear than they were to shots to the front. Also a penetration to the rear would likely kill the engine so its not really myth that a rear shot would be the most prized if it became available. There is also the added benefit of being in the tanks blind spot if its turret was facing in the frontal arc. If I was a T-34 or Sherman crew (or ATG crew or Bazooka team) I would opt for a rear shot over either a front or a flank shot if the opportunity came upon me.
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The Tiger was the result of the German Armaments Ministry issuing a specification for a new heavy tank to Daimler-Benz, Henschel, MAN and Porsche in 1937. The initial design contract was awarded to Henschel. In 1939 Porsche was also contracted for prototypes. However, the "Tigerprogram" was not given much priority until 1941 when the shortcomings of the Pz III and Pz IV were becoming apparent.
I don't think anyone's suggested that the Tiger II was "a follow on" to the Panther; certainly not I. The Panther was a MAN design and the Tiger II a later Henschel design intended to share as many components with the Panther as possible, including engine and suspension components. Some Panther components were redesigned to facilitate this too. The Tiger II, as the name suggests, is an evolution of the Tiger I, with thicker sloped front armor and a higher velocity 88 mm, the revised "breakthrough" tank, even if not the one best used to further exploit that breakthrough and actually, fast becoming the tank more useful to stop a breakthrough than start one. It was also, very importantly, easier to manufacture than the original Tiger.
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It does not matter which tank gun is the topic of conversation or what thickness the armor is either, all that matters is the range of the target, the angle in which the projectile impacted, and the resulting damage that was caused.
A LOT can be learned from watching videos and freezing the impact of the projectile "tracer" as it passes through the target.
Take a squad mate, get in to the dueling arena, and test out exactly what the ranges are for AP penetration. I've tested out most of the tanks straight up vs one another and many people would be surprised at just how little of an angle change in the projectile to armor is needed to deflect or absorb damage. It would raise a lot of eyebrows, that I know. I have notes with almost every tank vs tank testing I did, the ranges and angle of impact to the hull and turret (front). Sometimes all it takes is 5-10° of a change to make the armor effective enough for survival.
Very few things are absolute in the tank game in AH. I think HTC has done a good job at modeling tanks for the most part. My issue is the total and absolute reload times the tanks have, I think a few need to be adjusted based on multiple factors. HTC has taken arbitrary numbers and made them absolute.
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I was honestly shocked when I found out how big of a difference angle of impact makes. I was so shocked, infact, that I thought it was a bug and emailed HTC.
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Did you get a reply?
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Great info Predator. Very informative.
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Did you get a reply?
Once upon a time, as in sometime last summer (2011) , I was in a Panther tank and was destroyed by a M4/76mm from 2800 yards out with an impact that hit the right front tread (from the front) and entered the hull about 2/3 the way back at maybe a 20° angle of impact. I emailed the film to HTC, posted it here in the forums. I heard not a word, no response, no nuffin'. I believe it was the next update that had a "fixed various damage bugs" in the itemized change log. Since then, I have tested the Panther out in the DA and can not replicate that kill AND I no longer fear the basic tank beyond 1600 yards to my front. Only another Panther, Tiger, Firefly, or King Tiger cause me to sweat a bit when they are at long ranges (2000 + yards), all else the Panther can shrug off.
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The trouble I have is the penetration chart and the ranges seems to not matter. I am often curious how I can hit a Panzer IV with a 76mm from a M18 at less than 500 yds and not kill the tank from the front. Sideways, sure, but yesterday I shot a Panzer IV twice in the front hull from less than 500, got solid hit sprites, and was killed. If I read the charts correctly, there should be no where on a panzer IV that is invulnerable to a 76mm AP at that range. Where am I wrong in my thinking?
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I don't know if the "shatter gap" is modeled or not. It was a result of allied AP ammo being too soft and the Germans using face-hardened armor plates. Rounds that could penetrate beyond 1000 yards would fail at shorter ranges, or hits would fail at short range and then start to penetrate further out. The round literally shattered due to the enormous energies involved before it could penetrate the armor, kind of like the first few rounds in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg
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The trouble I have is the penetration chart and the ranges seems to not matter. I am often curious how I can hit a Panzer IV with a 76mm from a M18 at less than 500 yds and not kill the tank from the front. Sideways, sure, but yesterday I shot a Panzer IV twice in the front hull from less than 500, got solid hit sprites, and was killed. If I read the charts correctly, there should be no where on a panzer IV that is invulnerable to a 76mm AP at that range. Where am I wrong in my thinking?
I know the feeling. I put 3 rounds dead on at 1000 yards with as close to a 90° impact angle as one can get vs a Tiger I and nothing. One shot from the Tiger to my Panther's turret front and "puuf" up in smoke I go.
I have no clue as to how the damage model actually works, only HTC does. But I will bet that there are areas of the tank that AP rounds penetrate and otherwise do no real damage to the interior. Perhaps some sort of internal "hit box".
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If I had to guess, I would probably say your rounds just passed clean through the tank, loon, while the tiger's 88mm hit the ammo in your turret or something.
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Another thing I'm not sure is modeled is the explosive filler in the standard German AP shell, the Panzergranate 39 (APCBC-HE-T). The 88 mm Pzgr 39, 39-1 and 39/43 used the explosive filling no. 92; Hexogen 10, a mixture of 90% Hexogen (RDX) and 10% wax. Any penetration into the crew compartment of a tank by German AT guns of 50 mm or greater would normally be catastrophic as the shell explodes, sending shrapnel bouncing around inside the compartment.
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I know the KwK 43 has that modeled (LuscheI think did some tests, and found the AP shells of the 88mm were as effective as the HE shells of a 75mm).
But IIRC, most of Germany's shells weren't APCBCHE, they were only APCBC.
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With the exception of the 7.5 cm Kan. L/24 on the early Pz IV, all the German guns modeled in the game used APCBC-HE-T as standard.
For example the 75 mm KwK 40 (Pz IV) had the following ammunition options:
Pzgr. Patr. 39 KwK 40 (Armour Piercing Capped Ballistic Cap High Explosive round)
Pzgr. Patr. 40 KwK 40 (Armour Piercing Composite Rigid)
Gr. Patr. 38 HL/B KwK 40 (High Explosive Anti-Tank)
Gr. Patr. 38 HL/C KwK 40 (High Explosive Anti-Tank)
7.5 cm Sprgr.Patr.34 KwK 40 (High Explosive)
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Then why have hit sprites at all if they don't represent where your projectile has hit?
Because at a distance the hit sprite is blown up to show a "hit", however if you film it - zoom FAR onto the enemy tank you can clearly see where the round penetrates.
On my 30inch monitor, I can see hit sprites far out as 3,000 yards in a Panther, which leads me to view the film viewer often if I believe it was a square hit - and often it wasn't (i.e track hit, or glaced off the armor)
It might look like a dead kill, but often times its a deflection or it simply didn't penetrate all the way.
You can fire a shot, get a penetrating kill shot - but the tank doesn't die. For example get in a panzer 4 H, and at 1,000 yards shoot a Tiger in the front. Just because you see a hit sprite and kill shot, doesn't make it so.
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Butcher, you've been saying this for a while, but I'm confused on a point or two.
When you say "but often times its.... all the way", do you mean that the game is giving out erroneous hit sprites? From my expirience, you only get a hit sprite if you actually penetrate the armor, and that if you don't penetrate the armor (both from deflections, and just non-penetrations) the game represents it visually as a ricochet.
Same with the Panzer IV firing on a Tiger I. You get either a hit sprite and a kill after a couple of shells, or a ricochet. However its important to note that the offline drones don't have a real damage model, and are all or nothing.
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I understand this, but the question is in the way the game is modeled. For example, to kill the pintle gun on a tank, you have to hit the gun, so the brave pintle gunner can fire away exposed until the actual gun is destroyed. Same thing in buffs, there is likely a very small area where if it receives damage the gun is rendered ineffective. So, when a 76mm projectile defeats the armor and penetrates, what does it have to hit to kill the tank? Gas? Ammo?
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what people need to realize there are GLARING weaknesses and GLARING sweet spots and hard points in each tank. one being the lower pnzrIV's glacis plate (hard point), and another being the M4s lower glacis plate (sweet spot). The panthers turret ring is either always instadeath or at least a turreted panther. even the tigers turret ring (although miniscule) can be penetrated from the front (if you can even see the %&#^$@...). it seems the king tigers side rear turret is a good spot also to turret the bastard in 1 or 2 shots. although the KTs tracks are a lovily spot sometimes in the right cases to shoot at seeing as how the lower tracks armor behind it is weaker than the upper half.
learn the sweet spots on each tank and youll live alot longer.
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I know the KwK 43 has that modeled (LuscheI think did some tests, and found the AP shells of the 88mm were as effective as the HE shells of a 75mm).
But IIRC, most of Germany's shells weren't APCBCHE, they were only APCBC.
I've tested all the weapons within the last year. I've got a spread sheet and some units have it available on their website. I've offered to give it to the AH Trainers, but still to this day they use a very old and outdated list. Not sure why. :headscratch:
The 88mm HE does 234 lbs of damage to an OBJ, the 88mm AP does 117 lbs of damage. Also, remember that the AP has no splash damage unlike the HE.
The 75mm HE (Panther and all 3 Pzr IV variants) does 156 lbs of damage and the AP does 78 lbs. On a side note, the M4/75 HE does 178 lbs damage and the AP does 78 lbs damage. The M4/76 HE does 103 lbs of damage and the AP does 78 lbs of damage. :aok
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what people need to realize there are GLARING weaknesses and GLARING sweet spots and hard points in each tank. one being the lower pnzrIV's glacis plate (hard point), and another being the M4s lower glacis plate (sweet spot). The panthers turret ring is either always instadeath or at least a turreted panther. even the tigers turret ring (although miniscule) can be penetrated from the front (if you can even see the %&#^$@...). it seems the king tigers side rear turret is a good spot also to turret the bastard in 1 or 2 shots. although the KTs tracks are a lovily spot sometimes in the right cases to shoot at seeing as how the lower tracks armor behind it is weaker than the upper half.
learn the sweet spots on each tank and youll live alot longer.
Thats all fine and dandy, but can you really see these "spots" are are you just guessing? How close are you when your shooting at these tanks?
Me, I take two shots, first is more often than not a miss, but the second is almost always a hit. I get a hit sprite and then I see the incoming round and I'm in the tower :( I'm happy to hit a tank on the second shot, but I can NOT tell you where on that tank I'm going to hit.
Is this some fantasy that you "good tankers" imagine your doing? Am I shooting from too far away? Am I blind?
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Butcher, you've been saying this for a while, but I'm confused on a point or two.
When you say "but often times its.... all the way", do you mean that the game is giving out erroneous hit sprites? From my expirience, you only get a hit sprite if you actually penetrate the armor, and that if you don't penetrate the armor (both from deflections, and just non-penetrations) the game represents it visually as a ricochet.
Same with the Panzer IV firing on a Tiger I. You get either a hit sprite and a kill after a couple of shells, or a ricochet. However its important to note that the offline drones don't have a real damage model, and are all or nothing.
It's erroneous hit sprites, I can get a ricochet and still have a hit sprite, offline doesn't count as it doesn't count for LAG or tanks moving which don't help explain any easier.
Here's an example: if you aim for the rear of a T34/85 above the engine compartment - Three things can happen: Track Hit, Engine Hit, Ricochet off the armor, all three will give a Hit sprite, with only the engine hit doing any damage (Disabling the engine).
If you aim high, it will show a hit sprite, yet it ricochets off the armor, dealing no damage.
Hooter and myself tested this a few times a while back in the Panther, same argument is applied for the 30mm in the 109, many many players see hit sprites, but the round does no damage at all.
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I'm not sure thats quite how it works Butcher. As I understand it, what one player sees on his screen doesn't nessicarily reflect what others see on theirs. However, if one player makes a shot and lands hits from HIS perspective, then the player that was hit will recieve hits, regardless of what was happening on his OWN screen.
IIRC, what happens on your screen (hits, damage recieved, etc) is transmitted from your computer to the central server, and then to other players. This explains how people can clearly impact an object, and then keep flying for a little while before exploding; They know they've crashed, the server knows they've crashed a short period after it actually happens, but your computer is as of yet unaware of the fact. Your computer extrapolates a flight path for their aircraft and has that visually displayed on your screen, untill it gets the information from the server that says that guy hit the hanger and blew up. At that point, the game corrects for its error, and has the guy explode on your screen seconds after the event actually occured.
As for the erroneous hit sprits: only the ricochet would be erroneous. The track hit still caused damage, just not enough to disable the tracks or anything.
And even when I had crappy internet, I never had problems with the game giving false hit sprites. If I hit on my screen, then 90% of the time, what I expected to see happen actually happened. Then there are the 10% of the times where your aim was off and just hit the Panzer IV's hull instead of his turret, or hit the track instead of his side armor. In either case, I never expirienced anything that was not explainable by error on my part.
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And even when I had crappy internet, I never had problems with the game giving false hit sprites. If I hit on my screen, then 90% of the time, what I expected to see happen actually happened. Then there are the 10% of the times where your aim was off and just hit the Panzer IV's hull instead of his turret, or hit the track instead of his side armor. In either case, I never expirienced anything that was not explainable by error on my part.
If you film each sortie and play it back in slow motion you can understand it better, Film viewer is a problem as you can't see down the gun sight - you only see the shots being taken and you have to watch and run it at speeds of 0.11 or so to watch the impact.
RedDevil was having massive problems in tanks, I had him film one sortie where he claims every round was a kill shot when in fact it went like this:
You were in a Panther - at 6:38 you slammed a round in the tracks of a Panzer 4, no damage done.
Second shot slammed into the Turret for a kill.
Third shot was 7:15 - was a Glancing blow off the Turret - no damage would be caused.
4th Shot was at 7:23 - was a Glancing blow off the curved plate of the front armor - common mistake when aiming at a Panzer, you either hit the lower front hull, Hull or turret, do not aim below the driver view area
7:30 was the 5th shot to the Driver View Area - a kill shot
6th shot at 9:00 - a miss howver there was an assist on this target, not sure if I missed the shot
7th shot: 9:47 - miss on an m3
8th shot: 9:53 - hit on passenger door of the M3, results in a kill
9th shot: 9:59 - missed above the tank
10th shot: 10:05 missed above the tank
11th shot: 10:12 lower hull hit - kill shot
12th shot: 13:25 missed in front of the tank
13th shot: 13:38 missed
14th shot: 13:42 missed
15h shot: 13:49 missed
16th shot: 13:54 missed
17th shot: 15:53 missed
He was getting ricochets and hit spirtes, however some where simply misses and vice versa, glancing blows without any damage. One huge problem with the film viewer, is you can't see tanks at a distance if you are trying to watch a friendly.
I routinely fire above 2000 yards, sometimes you have to track the shell to the target to get an idea what you are aiming at (as you wont see icons at that range for some reason?).
In all 80% of my hits are no problem, 20% I still believe there is something screwy with tanking - i.e today I bounced a round of a T34/85's butt at 600 yards out and some reason my film viewer didn't save the run, I want to see exactly HOW a 75mm L/70 bounces a round off any armor at that distance.
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I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps its a bug that came up since I left. All I know is that, even firing at long ranges, I either got a ricochet, or a hit sprite that was rewarded with either a turret smoking, engine smoking, or a tank disapearing after the second hit.
As to the L'70 at 600yds, did you hit at an extreme angle? Perhaps you clipped the top of his rear hull armor (and I mean the VERY top, like where it starts to turn into engine decking armor), which caused the game to be confused as to where precicely to record the hit; on the rear of the tank which would be a penetration, or on the engine decking which, hitting at almost 90 degrees of slope, would be a deflection.
I'm not saying its LIKELY, all I'm saying is that its PLAUSIBLE.
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There are weak spots on "All tanks". Second of all and most inportant of all is "Proper" RANGE. I cannot preach this enough even at close range. Simply because you have a sprite does not consitiute a penetrating hit.
The biggest problem I see most often is people complaining that they have hits on tanks that they do not.....most often they are deflection shots, or shot that did not penetrate armor. :furious
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There are weak spots on "All tanks". Second of all and most inportant of all is "Proper" RANGE. I cannot preach this enough even at close range. Simply because you have a sprite does not consitiute a penetrating hit.
The biggest problem I see most often is people complaining that they have hits on tanks that they do not.....most often they are deflection shots, or shot that did not penetrate armor. :furious
One reason I sit in a Panther, I don't worry about deflection shots, anything not a Tiger or KT is usually dead under 3k (assuming you arn't hitting a T34's turret at 3k like an idiot).
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Thats all fine and dandy, but can you really see these "spots" are are you just guessing? How close are you when your shooting at these tanks?
Me, I take two shots, first is more often than not a miss, but the second is almost always a hit. I get a hit sprite and then I see the incoming round and I'm in the tower :( I'm happy to hit a tank on the second shot, but I can NOT tell you where on that tank I'm going to hit.
Is this some fantasy that you "good tankers" imagine your doing? Am I shooting from too far away? Am I blind?
im not guessing theyre how i kill each tank every time i rarely shoot a ping round anymore because i wait for the shot to get it.