Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: eagl on April 28, 2012, 09:02:03 PM
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This vid was put together for the 67FS, 2011 Raytheon trophy winner for best USAF air to air squadron (F-15C).
http://vimeo.com/40935850
The video is utterly authentic except the HUD shots are of course dumbed down to a simple gun reticle. But the comm is real.
If anyone asks why I kept flying fighters after I injured my back, I'll just send them a link to this video. It pretty much says it all.
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Thanks for posting :aok
Do you know of all of those videos were of the 67FS, or just made for them?
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Look at one thing in the video - there is a great shot of one guy totally leaned over to the side twisted around looking up and back over his shoulder. You gotta do that or you'll get your butt kicked but it is also why almost ever fighter pilot I know has a bad back. 6 to 9 G's twisted around like that = popped lumbar disc, been there done that.
That's also why I used to gripe a bit about the view system back in the CK / WB days. Cockpit mobility under G's = life, a good reason to go to the gym. I could take 7.5 G's sustained twisted around like that, and keep full vision and control of hands/feet to keep flying the plane. In the T-37 without a G-suit, I used to do that up to around 6.5 Gs even wearing a big heavy chute on my back instead of having it packed in the seat. So that's why I gripe about what I consider "early" grayout/blackouts, because I used to do it for a living and my G tolerance in real life was better than what the game let me do. If a T-37 student couldn't take 5 Gs without graying out (no G-suit), we'd wash his butt out for lack of adaptation. With the G-suit, our students will sometimes go out and pull over 6 Gs just because they can.
One thing I wish AH would model was a difference in symmetric and assymetric G tolerance for aircraft damage. A plane that can take 7.0 Gs symmetrical will start to bend around 5 Gs if the plane is rolling. Assymetric Gs (rolling while pulling lots of Gs) ought to take off a wingtip or aileron in the game, at around 2-3 Gs below the normal failure loading. I don't think the game models this.
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Does the F-15 flight computer automatically put in rudder?
I was told that F-16s do.
About the video though, that is just freaking awesome. You guys are the luckiest people alive and I dreamed and still do dream of joining your ranks but unfortunately never will.
:salute
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:rock
In 2005 i visited my best friend who was stationed at RAF LakenHeath and spent a day watching 492, 493rd and 494 squads do everyday ops, watching the E's light the burners on takeoff and shake the ground (we were 50yrds from the active runway) I also got to go into the 493rds personal bar in which they had a piece of a Mig 25 that was one of 4 shot down by members of the 493rd in a 72 hour span. I got to tour all of their offices, everything. Even got a little time in their simulator at Lakenheath which is an E model, i figured the flaps woulda been a lever but if memory serves me right its just a switch down by the throttle, i was also suprised how to light the burners by pushing the throttle over a little bump when at full throttle.
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Love later in the fight the pilot leaves one pipe in burner and drops the right to idle then stomps the rudder pedal.
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Wish they would have used the original Bad Company song instead of that remake junk.
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Awesome vid.
Hey Eagl, what's with the control stick at 7:15 looking like the Suncom stick and the one at 7:34 looking like..well, some old kind of stick with only a trim hat on it. Is that just some stock footage spliced in you think, or do F15's have varying sticks depending on age/model/etc.
Also, I wondered what you thought of the center stick vs the side stick like in the F16/F22/F35? Do you think it is easier on your body not having to jerk it around your own arm and elbow by having it at the side instead of the middle of your body?
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Hey Eagl, what's with the control stick at 7:15 looking like the Suncom stick and the one at 7:34 looking like..well, some old kind of stick with only a trim hat on it. Is that just some stock footage spliced in you think, or do F15's have varying sticks depending on age/model/etc.
Also, I wondered what you thought of the center stick vs the side stick like in the F16/F22/F35? Do you think it is easier on your body not having to jerk it around your own arm and elbow by having it at the side instead of the middle of your body?
I think one stick is in the front seat and the other is in the back seat. Either that, or one of the birds had been through an upgrade program. Not positive on that one though.
The center stick was fine with me because it meant I had a direct hydraulic link to the flight controls in the event that something happened to the digital flight controls. With a side-stick, you're just giving your vote and the plane moves the controls for you. Hornet and Eagle drivers can directly move the flight controls via mechanical linkage if the CAS fails. Both setups have ergonomic benefits and drawbacks. With the stick on the side, twisting away from the controls means having to reach farther to keep ahold of the stick. So there are plusses and minuses to both setups.
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Does the F-15 flight computer automatically put in rudder?
I was told that F-16s do.
About the video though, that is just freaking awesome. You guys are the luckiest people alive and I dreamed and still do dream of joining your ranks but unfortunately never will.
:salute
The CAS in an eagle does some control blending to counteract adverse yaw, yes. It also reduces aileron movement and increases rudder movement when the control stick is held aft. The F-15 CAS is more mechanical than the F-16 however, so you can trick it into making the plane flip around pretty dramatically. That's why F-15 pilots know how to use their feet and F-16 pilots don't. When we get former eagle and viper drivers here at Sheppard, during T-6 PIT we sometimes have to tell the eagle drivers to use less rudder and we have to teach the viper drivers what a rudder is and then spend months convincing them that using the rudder pedals isn't a bad thing when sitting behind a 1000hp turboprop.
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WOW!
Thanks!
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That is a beautiful airplane. Sadly tho we were getting them in service at the time I was never stationed at a base that had them. They mostly went to Germany and maybe England.
Now Phantoms I saw by the truckloads. What I remember most about the F4 is the smoke that came out of their engines. You could see the dang things 50 miles away. Either fighter looks like the Michelin man blimp on radar however. Tho I think the Eagle might have a little more life in her then most think. I remember what a world beater she was when she first came out, one of the elite systems that won the cold War.
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That was awesome!! As a kid we were stationed at Kadena, 82-85, my stepdad was an electrician on the F-15s.
NOT
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Love me some Eagle porn! Thanks for posting. :x :aok :salute
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Awesome indeed! Thanks eagl
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7:30 looks like he burned one eng while other was idle to aid his roll break?
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The CAS in an eagle does some control blending to counteract adverse yaw, yes. It also reduces aileron movement and increases rudder movement when the control stick is held aft. The F-15 CAS is more mechanical than the F-16 however, so you can trick it into making the plane flip around pretty dramatically. That's why F-15 pilots know how to use their feet and F-16 pilots don't. When we get former eagle and viper drivers here at Sheppard, during T-6 PIT we sometimes have to tell the eagle drivers to use less rudder and we have to teach the viper drivers what a rudder is and then spend months convincing them that using the rudder pedals isn't a bad thing when sitting behind a 1000hp turboprop.
We did the same at my glider club when a viper stick showed up. Which in gliders if you dont use the rudder your a deadman.
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fantastic :aok
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Eagl if you come across any other videos that are a tenth as good as this one it would be a crime not to share it.
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Excellent. Thanks for posting the link. <S>
Yep, it is interesting see the one pilot chop right throttle and stomp right rudder when the opposing jet was closing in.
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I understand the F15 has been upgraded a lot over the years and still one heck of a fighter, particularly BVR with the slammer.
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If anyone asks why I kept flying fighters after I injured my back, I'll just send them a link to this video. It pretty much says it all.
I noticed the twisting in the vid, but never thought about doing that while pulling Gs before, thanks for your glimpse into RW pilot suff :aok
there seems to be a fair bit of movement fore/aft in the harness, presumably theres almost no movement up/down? I always imagined being strapped in racecar tight to all the seat in a fighter. :headscratch:
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I noticed the twisting in the vid, but never thought about doing that while pulling Gs before, thanks for your glimpse into RW pilot suff :aok
there seems to be a fair bit of movement fore/aft in the harness, presumably theres almost no movement up/down? I always imagined being strapped in racecar tight to all the seat in a fighter. :headscratch:
The lap belt is tightened pretty tight to keep the pilot in the seat if he has to pull negative Gs or hits turbulence, and to anchor himself at the hips for leverage so he can make consistent flight control movements. The shoulder straps are on inertial reels so if you lean forward first to give yourself a lot of slack, you can twist almost all the way around even though your hips are still square and strapped down in the seat. When turning really far right it isn't uncommon for the pilot to switch to flying with his left hand while pushing back on the canopy rail with his right hand.
It's all rather punishing, and the weak of body or mind should really not even give it a try. Even the toughest fighter pilots end up with back or neck injuries nowadays and the easiest way to lose a dogfight is to get tired and give up. That "I give up" moment comes really fast for new or half-hearted pilots when pulling Gs.
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The lap belt is tightened pretty tight to keep the pilot in the seat if he has to pull negative Gs or hits turbulence, and to anchor himself at the hips for leverage so he can make consistent flight control movements. The shoulder straps are on inertial reels so if you lean forward first to give yourself a lot of slack, you can twist almost all the way around even though your hips are still square and strapped down in the seat. When turning really far right it isn't uncommon for the pilot to switch to flying with his left hand while pushing back on the canopy rail with his right hand.
It's all rather punishing, and the weak of body or mind should really not even give it a try. Even the toughest fighter pilots end up with back or neck injuries nowadays and the easiest way to lose a dogfight is to get tired and give up. That "I give up" moment comes really fast for new or half-hearted pilots when pulling Gs.
Eagl,
I know a couple of fighter jocks and your quite right about the back and neck issues! Now if HTC could find away to model pilot fatigue from pulling G's,that would be a game changer,however I have no idea how it could be done.
Oh and I guess it doesnt help you much if you have to punch out either......... :O
:salute
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Now if HTC could find away to model pilot fatigue from pulling G's,that would be a game changer,however I have no idea how it could be done.
Make everyone attach electrodes to their body that would flex their muscles when turning. Eventually people would stop turning because of the pain.
But yeah good point would be cool to see something actually implemented.
Maybe make everyone go to Texas and do a physical fitness test that would then be used to make you pilot better or worse LOL
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Make everyone attach electrodes to their body that would flex their muscles when turning. Eventually people would stop turning because of the pain.
But yeah good point would be cool to see something actually implemented.
Maybe make everyone go to Texas and do a physical fitness test that would then be used to make you pilot better or worse LOL
You sir are an idiot, but that's why I like you. Trying to figure out how to hook electronic muscle simulators to my joystick now.
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eagl, have you been to Red Flag? I watched a segment about it on Youtube. It looks intense!
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eagl, have you been to Red Flag? I watched a segment about it on Youtube. It looks intense!
I flew in 2 Red Flags, one flown from Nellis and one where we flew down from Mountain Home every night. They served their purpose quite well and when my squadron deployed we found the battle rhythm to be no harsher than what we'd experienced at Red Flag.
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I flew in 2 Red Flags, one flown from Nellis and one where we flew down from Mountain Home every night. They served their purpose quite well and when my squadron deployed we found the battle rhythm to be no harsher than what we'd experienced at Red Flag.
Is it a yearly event? And from what I understand, you aren't let loose into an active duty squadron until you've participated in a Red Flag. Is that the case?
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Amazing video, I connected my laptop to my HD TV to watch. I was entranced. It really gives a sense of what flying is really like and by extension it must give an impression of what flying an F15 must feel like. If eagl who has been there, thinks so then I'm hooked.
My last dream is to fly in some form of fast jet like the F15. It won't happen ever but this is close.
I've asked the guys to attach a Gopro to my bird to try and put together a video of my flying year. But after seeing this, why bother.
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Is it a yearly event? And from what I understand, you aren't let loose into an active duty squadron until you've participated in a Red Flag. Is that the case?
Red flag runs almost continuously. Units cycle through for up to 2 weeks at a time, with an occasional "special" flag for things you will probably never hear about :)
Units usually go to red flag every 18 months or so, and they try to time it for when the squadron is getting ready to their turn to deploy. The cycle is anchored by the deployment cycle, with periods set aside for training, upgrades, re-qualifications, red flag and other special training deployments, and an inspection cycle of about 2 years for each type of inspection that the squadron has to do. For example, at RAF lakenheath they have 4 continuous inspection cycles. Unit compliance inspection which validates adherance to regulations, NATO certification which validates readiness to fulfill nato obligations, nuke cert, and pre-deployment readiness inspections. Each of those happens every 2 years except the pre-deployment occurs before each AEF cycle which is not 2 years. In the middle of all that inspection prep are training deployments like red flag and other events, upgrade training, re-qualification training, new guy qualifications, etc.
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Red flag runs almost continuously. Units cycle through for up to 2 weeks at a time, with an occasional "special" flag for things you will probably never hear about :)
Units usually go to red flag every 18 months or so, and they try to time it for when the squadron is getting ready to their turn to deploy. The cycle is anchored by the deployment cycle, with periods set aside for training, upgrades, re-qualifications, red flag and other special training deployments, and an inspection cycle of about 2 years for each type of inspection that the squadron has to do. For example, at RAF lakenheath they have 4 continuous inspection cycles. Unit compliance inspection which validates adherance to regulations, NATO certification which validates readiness to fulfill nato obligations, nuke cert, and pre-deployment readiness inspections. Each of those happens every 2 years except the pre-deployment occurs before each AEF cycle which is not 2 years. In the middle of all that inspection prep are training deployments like red flag and other events, upgrade training, re-qualification training, new guy qualifications, etc.
:rock woot.
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Little bump but I still watch this video every couple of days because its still awesome.
Anywho been watching it very closely and a question arose: Is the hat switch on the stick the trim?
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Little bump but I still watch this video every couple of days because its still awesome.
Anywho been watching it very closely and a question arose: Is the hat switch on the stick the trim?
The large round stair-stepped coolie hat on the stick is trim, yes.
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The large round stair-stepped coolie hat on the stick is trim, yes.
Thank you sir. :salute
I also noticed that they now have left handed sticks. Is it a conversion kit to make it left handed or is tge whole plane shipped lefty?
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Thank you sir. :salute
I also noticed that they now have left handed sticks. Is it a conversion kit to make it left handed or is tge whole plane shipped lefty?
If you saw a left-handed control stick they must have flipped the video to make it look better or more consistent. All of the stick grips are right-handed with the throttles on the left. The only left handed grips that I know of in an F-15 are in the back seat of Strike Eagles for the WSO, but those are bolted to the consoles and not attached to control sticks.
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Little bump but I still watch this video every couple of days because its still awesome.
Agreed. One of my favorite videos on the interwebs
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Greatness!! Made my night, thanks eagl :salute
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If you saw a left-handed control stick they must have flipped the video to make it look better or more consistent. All of the stick grips are right-handed with the throttles on the left. The only left handed grips that I know of in an F-15 are in the back seat of Strike Eagles for the WSO, but those are bolted to the consoles and not attached to control sticks.
Ok ill find that part and see if maybe I was mistaken.
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This may be a dumb question but howcome some of the 15s are fighting with the DTs on while some of the others arent? Wouldnt that be a disadvantage to the ones with them on?
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This may be a dumb question but howcome some of the 15s are fighting with the DTs on while some of the others arent? Wouldnt that be a disadvantage to the ones with them on?
It is a slight disadvantage but not as critical since the tank is generally empty by the time the planes get to a situation where it matters. The idea is that if you get to the merge with advantage then it doesn't matter if you are carrying a centerline tank or not, and that's the learning point. Never EVER accept a fair fight, and the learning point and desired training objectives are usually achieved before it gets to the point where the tank matters. If they get to the merge and are disadvantaged, the best option may be to plug it into burner, unload, and extend, rather than try to regain an advantage in a knife fight.
Imagine you're riding a bicycle, with your pockets full of rocks. Your opponent has a pocket full of tennis balls and a knife in his hand. You stand off some distance trying to hit him with rocks, but he works his way close enough to you to threaten you with his knife. Do you hop off your bike and fight him on foot hoping to take his knife away, or do you wait until he commits to hopping off of HIS bike, then pedal away far enough that you can start tossing rocks at him again?
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Makes sense thanks eagl :salute
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It is a slight disadvantage but not as critical since the tank is generally empty by the time the planes get to a situation where it matters. The idea is that if you get to the merge with advantage then it doesn't matter if you are carrying a centerline tank or not, and that's the learning point. Never EVER accept a fair fight, and the learning point and desired training objectives are usually achieved before it gets to the point where the tank matters. If they get to the merge and are disadvantaged, the best option may be to plug it into burner, unload, and extend, rather than try to regain an advantage in a knife fight.
Imagine you're riding a bicycle, with your pockets full of rocks. Your opponent has a pocket full of tennis balls and a knife in his hand. You stand off some distance trying to hit him with rocks, but he works his way close enough to you to threaten you with his knife. Do you hop off your bike and fight him on foot hoping to take his knife away, or do you wait until he commits to hopping off of HIS bike, then pedal away far enough that you can start tossing rocks at him again?
For us rednecks simply sustitute horse for bicycle. :D