Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on May 18, 2012, 11:21:27 AM
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I really love the new 88 flaks. The fact that it is a human calculating and firing at me makes it rather exciting as the shells go off near me. It's great when they miss too, and you see the shell harmlessly popping 800 yards away. It is almost fun being hit too, because it happens so rarely and also because you know it was a skilled shot that got you.
CV puffy ack on the other hand is none of the above. I know this is a dead horse topic many times over. However I can't help thinking that the Auto-Puffy on the CV's would be so much better if they had to be manned and fused like the 88mm. We can keep the deadly proximity fused 5" as normal for close range stuff. The 5" are the only things that really keep a CV safe anyhow. The auto-puffy just irritates dogfighting planes for the most part yet fails to stop a serious attempt at egging the flight deck in most cases. If the Multi-Burst-Auto-Puffy was a manned artifact I think it would reduce if not completely eliminate the puffy ack complaints.
I'd like to finish by saying I rarely get hit by CV puffy because I rarely fly anywhere near the bleeding stuff, so this is nt in any way a whine. But I have noticed many players old and new repeatedly finding it detracting from their gameplay.
How many of us would like to try a new system?
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My idea for this topic was to make the lethality of the auto puffy be based on the amount of friendlies within "range vox" range.
20 = 1.0 lethality
10 = .5
Anything above 20 players only add 0.001 per additional player. So 40 players = 1.040.
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I wouldnt mind a new system for cv ack. It rarely kills me when i accidentally stumble across it, but often times it usually does damage enough to force me to land or impare the airplane to the point i dont rearm after a sortie, something i almost always do unless my birds crippled (missing aileron, stabalizer, damaged guns).
88 is a different story. There Is a certain thrill watching that orange tracer fly by your canopy, as you pray itll burst out of range.
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However I can't help thinking that the Auto-Puffy on the CV's would be so much better if they had to be manned and fused like the 88mm.
I like the idea, but would like to have it so the puffy doesn't fire unless there's a human in ONE puffy gun. That human would set the distance fuse, aim it, and fire it. Then, when that shell explodes, you get a field of puffy in the area around the shell that the human fired. This way, you'd still get a field of puffy, but would only get it when and where a human fires it.
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The auto-puffy from the CVs is the 5" guns and all of the 5" AA should be fused or all of it not fused. That said, I'd love it if the auto-puffy actually had to be fired and LOS mattered.
Mind you, not fusing the 5" rounds would greatly increase the CV's vulnerability.
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I would love to see something done with cv puffy ack. I always get one shot killed as soon as I touch 3K. The worst being when there was just the carrier left the the cv group and most of the guns were destroyed. There was maybe 15 friendlies over 3K so I thought I'd be safe to fly higher. Ten seconds at 3.5K and I'm already pilot wounded and oil leaking everywhere to a carrier that only had 3 working guns.
Reduce the rage at which puffy ack starts shooting. Maybe 5K, kind of ridiculous that they will keep targeting you from over the horizon.
Reduce the lethality or accuracy so you don't get sent to the tower the very second you break 3,000ft
Raise the safe zone from puffy ack from 3,000ft to 5,000ft
Any one of these ideas I'd like to see. Lets do something to get the player to have the defend their carrier rather than watching them sit over their carrier watching the game kill everything for them.
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Its been said a million times before about puffy ack, everyone hates it, only reason I can figure puffy ack is so ridiculous is it gives wheezy kids a time out pen when they are in trouble or a means of resetting a fight. I mean its a constant popular topic on the boards, HTC must know it is unrealistic and used in a gamey way, but it must in their opinion serve some role in gameplay that we are not privy to.
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I am often impressed by the skill of some 88 gunners, most though, like me, are inept. I don't know to what degree the puffy disuades attacks on CVs but it seems important not to make it any easier to kill the CV. To make the game playable the creators have to put their thumb on the scale in some areas. For instance it is silly to have the CV take 4 times as many bombs to kill as the cruiser, silly to have the cruiser as vulnerable as the destroyers. But if it was more realistic it would make for a duller game as the carriers would be dropped very quickly once spotted. (typhoooooon)
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For instance it is silly to have the CV take 4 times as many bombs to kill as the cruiser, silly to have the cruiser as vulnerable as the destroyers. But if it was more realistic it would make for a duller game as the carriers would be dropped very quickly once spotted. (typhoooooon)
On the same note the destroyer takes less ord than a hangar.
the 88mm takes skill and punishes bombers too low, the rest has been beaten to death.
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HTC must know it is unrealistic
Yes, it is unrealistic because if model realistically, you'd never get close a CV.
ack-ack
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:salute i would like to see the 88s in a battery form. meaning 3 at a spot. now thats a threat.
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:salute i would like to see the 88s in a battery form. meaning 3 at a spot. now thats a threat.
Now theres a idea
+1 :)
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ohhhh no not puffy ack whine again..cheesh get over it--if you don't want to get hit by puffy ack--stay away--you know fleets need protection too..they get destroyed just as easy as anything eles..the fleets are not there for target practice..they are an asset to be used in battle...not for some body to practice their bombing runs..if you must dive on a fleet..use p-40d-sbd-f4f-f6f-or 1 of the japnesse dive bombers clime out 10--12,000 feet dive stright down--unload ords--pull out low fly off--rinse and repeat :bolt:
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I like the CV Puffy ack. You dont even have to "LOOK" for the CV....you just fly around until it starts shooting at you...then you start looking for the ships. Once found... you up Bombers (or call it in).... a few minutes later a set of B24s fly 9K over it and sink it.
I don't know any Admiral in any Navy that would give his position away for a single AC....but the AH Admirals will....and I say ...Thank YOU! LOL
:airplane:
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See rule #4
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The 88s remind me of a pretty date who wont even kiss you. A good idea in theory but not much use other then a troop killer.
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How many of us would like to try a new system?
I like the 5 inch puffy ack modeled the way it is. What I don't like is the fact the CV can get so close to shore that the 5 inch gunners can vulch with it. Also, I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.
I'd like to see 88mm more accurate, possibly by modeling the radar assistance that the Germans used towards the end of the war. It could be modeled by a lead computing site with the range included, but would be disabled if all radar was taken down at a field (this suggestion would require more than just 1 radar tower per airfield). Against low flying aircraft with a predictable flight path 88mm should be murderous, just as it would be for lower flying bombers on a steady course. I'd also triple the amount of 88mm and have the extra guns slaved to the player (i.e. each player controls 3 guns with 1 trigger pull) I'd also put in some random wind layers so the risk/reward of flying bombers lower was present as well.
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I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.
Agreed.
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I like the 5 inch puffy ack modeled the way it is. What I don't like is the fact the CV can get so close to shore that the 5 inch gunners can vulch with it.
On some maps we have bases that are being vulched by puffy ack too. Ships are at sea level, field is at 2.4k. You just got wheels up and are being targeted by puffy ack while hunting goons over the town at 600ft AGL... :lol
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To me the 88 is very nearly worthless and turn about three times slower than it should. I have manned a US 3 inch 50 on a Coast Guard boat and the gun is set up the same way. It is like the rear tire of a kids bike, The fast you paddle the faster it goes.
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88s are a blast to man.
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Puffy Ack... I may aswell type out Rule #4 and save HTC the time.
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Also, I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.
as an alternative to making the cv more vulnerable I think it would be nice to have some target that torpedoes could be used on other than the fleet.
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Yes, it is unrealistic because if model realistically, you'd never get close a CV.
ack-ack
So whats your opinion on the auto ack, make it actually fired out of the guns, and LOS dependent, or leave it with the clearly screwed up and exploitable system being used now.
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You need to realize that a single torpedo plane or a flight of bombers would have less than a 0% chance of ever putting ord on a real WWII CV
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What are the game functions that rely on the CV auto ack for protection to give players some chance of using that function?
1. Fighters
2. Fighter Bombers
3. PT
4. Heavly armed LVT
5. Light LVT delivering troops
6. 8 inch gun batteries.
The CV group is a single player command mobile function or movable non-capturable airfield that can come within (xxxxx) minimum yards of land or a fixed capturable base object. But, like any capturable object it has auto ack and mannable guns to defend it or attack other objects. Unlike other equivalent bases it has the most powerful auto defense guns in the game. This is due to it's vulnerability as a down side to it's massive force projection amplified by it's mobility.
What is the maximum distance from land that LVT can spawn to deliver troops?
Is this tied to auto ack protection or forcing a CV group to expose itself to destruction to capture a feild?
At what distance in WW2 did a task force sit off shore while LVT were launched?
At any time in WW2 did LVT deliver troops to a beach under attack by japanese aircraft or their fleet being attacked?
What we know historicly about the 5 inch gun:
Maximum horizontal range, with a 55 pound projectile, is 18,000 yards (16 km). <---(10 miles)
In the antiaircraft role, it had a ceiling of 37,200 feet (11,300 m) at 85 degrees elevation.
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It's obvious that game map distance scale to real life 5inch ballistic scale is mismatched in many cases to the 5inch gun's favor.
a. Change the minimum range to shore for a task group to 10.5 miles.
If this is outside of LVT auto spawn range, give the player a spawn point arrow with a minimum arch along the target base's shore for the proper spawn distance. Allow PT to deliver small groups of troops like jeeps by beaching on the shore. Change those troops max distance to map room to allow for this function.
Down sides: Smaller maps with water or maps with narrows will restrict some of the paths the Task Force object can travel. Eventualy 60 players will spawn PT to perform a mass whale beaching to swamp the local area with troops.
b. Restrict the mannable 5inch to the CV batteries and Cruiser batteries while increasing mannable 20mm and 40mm across the fleet.
Down sides: CV will die sooner if not protected by an active CAP Patrol and realy good gunners. Task Force to Task Force fights will rely on PT, Torp bombers and jabo as much as 8 inch guns. Players will hold their collective breaths until Hitech puts back the 5 inch mannable on the destroyers which will return to the original problem with fleet defence versus fighters and bombers.
c. Change the auto ack code so it's near suicide to fly bombers near CV while making it harder to hit fighters.
Down sides: Single engined Torpedo bombers will get through along with Jabo and sink the CV sooner. Bomber pilots will riot in this forum telling Hitech they have nothing to do anymore and will quit if he dosen't change CV back to perk point milk runs again.
d. Inside of 1500 yards all 20mm-40mm auto defences make flying anything or paddeling anything near the CV group suicide.
Down sides: Furballs will change near CV groups. PT boats and Torp planes will sink more CV if there is no active CAP defence.
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CV groups have such massive irritating defence fire becasue of how we play the game. If CV's relyed on us to defend them as enthusiasticly as we try to capture the feild the CV is parked near, many of my ideas would be worth while. Maybe only changing how bombers versus fighters are being targeted by the auto ack would work in our current game environment.
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A very good WEB Site to help understand the problems with aiming manual fuse Flak.
http://ed-thelen.org/pre_nike.html#V1_attack_defense
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I always thought making the cv ack only target planes that up with any rockets or bombs might solve a few problems
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My main thought is that 88mm manned ack seems to actualy be fun to fly against - even if you do get hit - yet the unmanned ship puffy seems to generate alot of unhappy players full stop. I have been the first to say 'Dont fly near the CV if you dont want to get hit'. I still fly by that rule. The CV is supposed to annoy you if you fly too close. I just found it interesting that the new addition of the 88s has proved once and for all that it is not dying that produces the whines, it's dying by an automated function rather than another player's good aim.
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I just found it interesting that the new addition of the 88s has proved once and for all that it is not dying that produces the whines, it's dying by an automated function rather than another player's good aim.
LOL. I got whined at via PM when I killed a pony near a v-base from the 88. Apparently he thought it was BS and that because he was going 400+ in a P51 that he was somehow immune. :rofl
Then I killed his buddy in his P51 a few minutes later, still in my 88. :D
I still think it would be nice to have a manual-fused (or even proximity-fused) gun on the CV, which would need to be set and fired by a human to create the field of puffy. Point is...no human at the gun, no puffy.
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hehe, you are right there Dot. I should have stated 'majority' of whines, there are always some real golden whines that can come out of any situation
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Adding 1 or 2 SBs would help push the cv out further so one could get up without being puffed out.
Maybe just add some 5" guns on the shoreline for base defense. :D
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Its been said a million times before about puffy ack, everyone hates it, only reason I can figure puffy ack is so ridiculous is it gives wheezy kids a time out pen when they are in trouble or a means of resetting a fight. I mean its a constant popular topic on the boards, HTC must know it is unrealistic and used in a gamey way, but it must in their opinion serve some role in gameplay that we are not privy to.
Bah. My solution to the field 88s is simply to kill them.
Death can solve a great many problems. No more man. no more problem
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Player controlled puffy? Where have I heard that before? Thinking thinking...
Oh yea...it was from me many times over the last decade or so.. One day...one day.. Maybe
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Absolutely, you and a hundred others Kappa
Now that the 88s are in the game, maybe it was worthy of discussion again, maybe not, I was thinking about it in the MA and threw it out there
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I recently got Silent hunter 5 for my PC, which leads to an old wish; any chance AH can have subs with an 88mm deck gun now?