Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: flight17 on May 25, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
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What is the best automotive/aircraft style degreaser? I have been cleaning the bellies of our planes which are caked in grease/oil and it seems like the method/cleaning I'm using is just not cutting it. Its taking me between 3-5 hours to clean the belly and underside of the wings per aircraft! To me that just seems way too long. Now granted I'm making them spotless, but i still think it should only take me 2-3 hours max per plane.
I'm using Grease Lightning, a scrub brush and a sponge with a scrub cloth on one side. I'm spraying the bellies down first with warm water, letting it drip off. Then I'm spraying the entire belly with the grease lightnight. Then i get on a crawler and get underneath it and start scrubbing with the brushes. it doesn't take long for them to get saturated with grease and instead of taking the grease off, they just spread it. Once i have the grease down to a pretty thin layer, i then use the sponge's scrub side to get the final bit off and then the sponge to get any residue off. Between all that is multiple reapplying of grease lightning to try and break down the grease.
Any ideas on what else there is to use? I'm hoping i Can find something that can just get right through the grease and lift it up so that a simple scrubbing can get it off.
I'm half tempted to just use a scrapper and start scraping it off as it would be a lot quicker, but I'm worried about scratching the paint. But then again, they have let them go like this for so long, what will a little paint hurt lol.
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Dawn dish washing liquid is an excellent degreaser
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I have some degreaser that I sell as part of my weapons coating products. If you will PM me with your email I can get you pricing and information on it...it is a new product on the market called Froglube Super Degreaser but you cannot get much info about it online.
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gunk works pretty well when i need to degrease an engine....but that depends on getting the engine warm first..........
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Is the paint "imron"?
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I use Simple Green but I'm clueless if that would work for you.
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Go back 30 years ago and 1,1,1-Trichloroethane was the best degreaser you could get, just keep it away from rubber seals... Banned now due to ozone depletion.. These days I use Alconox products.
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some high test gasoline works best for me... then again I dont normally have to remove caked on grease. The few times I do though, it works like a charm. of course, Its only useful when theres minimal chance of ignition for it too....
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Varsol
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we used to use Purple Power @ the mechanics shop i worked @ seemed to work very well gettin grease and oil up off the floor
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I use Suzuki motorcycle wash on my bike I spray it on give it a few minutes and spray it off,kinda expensive but it works! in the old days we used a product called formula 409 on our model airplanes it cut the klots oil on contact,and wiped right off
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I should have mentioned, these are real planes, not models... Cessna 172s, a 182, piper warrior IIIs, an arrow and Seminole.
Reschke, do you mean you formulated it when you say "a part of my"...
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A&P 29 years
Varsol
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A&P 29 years
Varsol
where can you get it and how much does it cost? Did a search, is it a brand name or the actual product name? Based off this I couldn't tell... http://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/Chem-English/brands/hydrocarbon-oxygenated-fluids-products-varsol.aspx?ln=productsservices
Is it just mineral spirits like I would use to clean paint brushes with?
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Alchohol/acetone/simple green/kerosine all work well just make sure you wash with soap after if you use anything harmful.
But you should try getting some scotch brite pads for taking the thick stuff off it's kinda like a brillow pad.
then the towel or sponge like you said.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=615057-130699&ucst=t
fastenal has pads that would work well...I work with stainless and use it for polishing on a air tool...but as a hand pad it would shine it up for you...
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Go back 30 years ago and 1,1,1-Trichloroethane was the best degreaser you could get, just keep it away from rubber seals... Banned now due to ozone depletion.. These days I use Alconox products.
What did they generically call that stuff? Tri something? It works great, but it also dissolved the fat out of you skin, so you don't want to get drenched with it..tri sodium phosphate? It's cheap and it comes in a powder and you have to mix it with water.
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It's also known as TSP.
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http://www.homedepot.com/buy/cleaning-cleaners-household-cleaners/tsp-16-oz-heavy-duty-general-purpose-cleaner-193909.html
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(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31wk0MGDddL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
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http://www.washwax.com/products.php?pid=17
I use this stuff on my plane, works great.
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Methanol Very useful, just don't drink it :D
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff107/tymekeepyr/Beer/Upgraded%20Breery/Brewery_%20v2/WaterPurifier.jpg)
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How close till critical mass?
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I use Simple Green but I'm clueless if that would work for you.
NEVER use Simple Green for aircraft. It is corrosive to aluminum.
For that matter, if you use it on a vehicle engine, expect things to get ugly if you have a newer car, good chance there is aluminum in the engine it too.
Whenever considering using a cleaner on aircraft, you absolutely must research to see if it is corrosive to aluminum. If you don't, you take a very good chance on destroying an aircraft. Liquids get into lap seams, etc and will corrode where you can't see it. Once you do see it, the metal is too far gone.
Safest bet, and best way to go with aircraft, use a product designed for aircraft cleaning.
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It's also known as TSP.
4 years ago I bought some with an old family friend at a local hardware store....how recent is this ban?
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NEVER use Simple Green for aircraft. It is corrosive to aluminum.
For that matter, if you use it on a vehicle engine, expect things to get ugly if you have a newer car, good chance there is aluminum in the engine it too.
Whenever considering using a cleaner on aircraft, you absolutely must research to see if it is corrosive to aluminum. If you don't, you take a very good chance on destroying an aircraft. Liquids get into lap seams, etc and will corrode where you can't see it. Once you do see it, the metal is too far gone.
Safest bet, and best way to go with aircraft, use a product designed for aircraft cleaning.
Luminox is excellent for aluminum, especially unpainted or untreated aluminum. Luminox is a low foaming, neutral pH detergent for use in manual, ultrasonic, and machine cleaning. Safe-handling detergent used for non-corrosive cleaning without chelation or alkalinity waste treatment problems. Recommended for aluminum and soft metal, medical devices, pharmaceutical equipment, alkaline sensitive labware, and medical instruments in aluminum trays. Free rinsing, eliminating interfering residues. Dilute 3:100. pH 7
We use it to clean freshly machined aluminum manifolds used in the F-35. After thorough rinsing with fresh water, the surface is clean, degreased, residue free and ready for anti-corrosion treatment and paint.
The only down side is that it isn't inexpensive. About $77 per gallon. However, one gallon will make 25 gallons of cleaning solution.
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I really mourned the passing of 1, 1, 1, trichloroethane.............b ut it was funny watching my boss at the z shop bail out of a 240z on the lift in 1990 when he used "this new and less expensive brake cleaner" to douse the flames that come up inside when you are welding a new floor in.
The old stuff didn't burn.
The new stuff seems more dangerous to finishes and is more harsh when in contact with humans.
Varsol is a lot less intense than anything else mentioned and doesn't seem to harm paint if you make sure to wash it's leavings off with soapy water.
Just be careful if you're sourcing it from a parts cleaner because someone will surely have cleaned parts with a more intense spray cleaner in the parts cleaner netting you a more corrosive mix of solvent then you wanted.
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I use simple green or gasoline if green is not cutting it. Do know how good for the plane's pain, but gasoline is awsome. :devil
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NEVER use Simple Green for aircraft. It is corrosive to aluminum.
For that matter, if you use it on a vehicle engine, expect things to get ugly if you have a newer car, good chance there is aluminum in the engine it too.
Whenever considering using a cleaner on aircraft, you absolutely must research to see if it is corrosive to aluminum. If you don't, you take a very good chance on destroying an aircraft. Liquids get into lap seams, etc and will corrode where you can't see it. Once you do see it, the metal is too far gone.
Safest bet, and best way to go with aircraft, use a product designed for aircraft cleaning.
ya that's why I'm trying to get multiple products so I can research them... I guess sg can be crossed off...
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heavey grease is actually fairly easy to clean.
first DO NOT SOAK OR PRESOAP THE HEAVEY DEPOSITS! use plastic scrapers (automotive body shop fibroglass and bondo scrappers work very well) to scrape off as much of the bulk of the grease as you can get.
second once you have the grease scraped down to as thin a layer as possible heat it up in patches as hot as possible with a high preasure steam cleaner (without soap or solvent!) and then scrape it again.
third and final, the remaining final film can then be cleaned using a mix of hot water and any GENTLE!! solvent (yes even dawn dish detergent will work very well) use a stiff plastic or fiber bristled brush (toilet brush with a plastic (not metal) inner ring etc) to break up the residue and then a heavy sponge to wipe away.
rinse and repeat step 3 as needed per spot.
as a foot note, keep in mind most mixable solvents are very water sensative. too much water in the mix and you over delute the solution, not enough water and the solvent will not become acidic/alakaline enough (depending on type) to properly clean the grease. too often people think that more is better but this is actually a chemical reaction you are creating so the proper concentration is always the best route to take.
good luck
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Whoah, my original post was all messed up. (Memorial Day weekend cheer :cheers:)
What we use is called DC-99 it is awesome. Here is the website.
http://dwdavies.com/product/dc-99
We also use a product called "Number 11", but rubber gloves and breathing apparatus is required. It's bad news.
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I use this. It works better than greased lightning which I use around the house for cleaning. It's made by the same folks who make PB Blaster Penetrating Lubricant.
http://www.blastercorporation.com/Citrus_Based_Degreaser.html
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M.E.K if you can get your hands on some.(methyl ethyl ketone )
CobraJet
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Varsol= paint thinner=mineral spirits!
works well,I used to cut a degreaser with varsol to make it go farther. but only used the degreaser if the varsol wouldnt do the job itself,takes tar off car paint and wont harm surface provided it's cleaned thoroughly with soap and water. I even cut certain compounds with it when buffing a car to lubricate the compound to stop burning.
As with anything YMMV.
:salute
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wd-40 then wash it with regular dishwashing soap. dawn is good as suggested.
semp
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Varsol= paint thinner=mineral spirits!
works well,I used to cut a degreaser with varsol to make it go farther. but only used the degreaser if the varsol wouldnt do the job itself,takes tar off car paint and wont harm surface provided it's cleaned thoroughly with soap and water. I even cut certain compounds with it when buffing a car to lubricate the compound to stop burning.
As with anything YMMV.
:salute
Mineral spirits is closely related to kerosine = jet fuel.
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M.E.K if you can get your hands on some.(methyl ethyl ketone )
CobraJet
MEK will remove paint. MEKP will catch stuff on fire!
Edit:
MEKP is that little tube you get with bondo. I've bought it by the gallon jugs before. It's the catalyst for poly or vinyl ester (fiberglass). It will eat your skin and if on a dry rag and it gets hot enough, Fire will happen. MEK will just burn your skin, like acetone.
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Mineral spirits is closely related to kerosine = jet fuel.
Ya wouldnt surprize me if it worked!
:salute
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Ill vouch for kerosine, as well as diesel. But both are really fumy and have a lingering odor.
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Alchohol/acetone/simple green/kerosine all work well just make sure you wash with soap after if you use anything harmful.
But you should try getting some scotch brite pads for taking the thick stuff off it's kinda like a brillow pad.
then the towel or sponge like you said.
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products/detail.ex?sku=615057-130699&ucst=t
fastenal has pads that would work well...I work with stainless and use it for polishing on a air tool...but as a hand pad it would shine it up for you...
I was going to vote for acetone too. Only problem with acetone is that it will eat away any wax on the paint job and it may gray out some windshields so it needs to be used with some caution. It's also highly flammable. But other than that - great stuff. It even smells nice.
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M.E.K if you can get your hands on some.(methyl ethyl ketone )
CobraJet
MEK will clean, but I would never suggest it as a degreaser for a large area. Unhealthy, takes some real precautions to use.
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You could try finding a air die grinder and put on some scotch brite like I said...get fine stuff and use it to buff the grease right off....just hold a towel around so it flies into it and not on the rest of the plane
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Avgas works quite good. You can use it to degrease the engine using a bug sprayer and it (used) to be one of the cheapest solutions. Don't tell the EPA
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I know you were talking about REAL planes was just throwing ideas at you no need to get snotty :banana:
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Zep Big Orange
We use it to take asphalt tack off aluminum wheels before re-polishing them.
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My company makes several degreasers / solvents. I'm sure we can find something to safely get those planes clean and cut down on the labor hours it has been taking.
Check your inbox. I sent you some info.
:salute
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I use simple green or gasoline if green is not cutting it. Do know how good for the plane's pain, but gasoline is awsome. :devil
Same here . That simple green is some good stuff .
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Once clean a good coat of wax will make the next cleaning much easier.
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We use Extreme (aka: Aviation) Simple Green, regular old fashion, plain, original-formula simple green makes aluminum brittle over time. If that doesn't do it, even after a little soak, try some odorless (still smells like solvent, just means they've removed most the sulfer) mineral spirits (it's what we use to degrease engines, not the most friendly to paint).
AvGas leaves residue and is almost as bad as turpentine to the skin, esp if you're sensitive to such things.
Mineral spirits are based on a pure form of petroleum, and their evaporation rate is fairly moderate, but they also release harmful vapors. The only difference is that these vapors are not absorbed through the skin like in the case of turpentine. And the best part is that these spirits are more affordable than turpentine. Mineral-spirits are considered to be stronger solvent solutions as compared to the odorless mineral spirits, or white spirits.
PS - I feel you gotta dilute the hell outa the extreme simple green to lessen its streaking, or just got over it again with a wringed-out wet towel.
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I use Simple Green but I'm clueless if that would work for you.
That is good stuff. In more ways than one. Try some on your eggs.
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I will not eat Simple Green eggs!!
or ham
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Formula 409. That stuff will clean ANYTHING. I once had some industrialized paint stuck onto my hands and TKO handsoap wasn't doing anything. I then got a shoprag and a little bit of 409 and my hands were as clean as they can be
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I can't recall what it is specificly in 409, but I think it contains a corrosive (nothing to worry about with using on something already covered in a 1/4" of rust, but if it's new or almost new condition...).