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General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Tracerfi on June 10, 2012, 01:04:09 PM

Title: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Tracerfi on June 10, 2012, 01:04:09 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Melvin on June 10, 2012, 01:19:44 PM
We've got it pretty easy...

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/B-24_hit_by_Flak.jpg/220px-B-24_hit_by_Flak.jpg)


(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/18/B-24_Flak.jpg/200px-B-24_Flak.jpg)


(https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSyeaVy92ZgrKvTYIzeNXeYgxt1ScBRDtibkaHLaVn8HaIzklj39A)





Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Butcher on June 10, 2012, 01:36:08 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:

Look at what ack guns are available on a warship in game, now look at a real New Orleans class Heavy Cruiser (USS Vincesses):

6x 8 inch guns forward
3x 8 inch guns rear
4x 5 inch Mk 10 guns Left Side
4x 5 inch guns right side
8x twin 40mm Bofors left side
8x twin 40mm Bofos right side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA Guns left side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA guns right side

Do you really want to whine about the ACK? Let HTC add ALL of the gun batteries of a Heavy Cruiser/Anti Aircraft Cruiser or Light Cruiser and watch when you can't even get within 6k of a Carrier fleet because its unstoppable, your only gamble is to climb to 20k and dive bomb the CV and hop you can make it through the ack and the majority of the time you won't.

In my opinion we have some 1941 AAA Setup, if HTC ever decided to beef up the ACK he could goto a 1944 setup and nobody would dare go near a Carrier TF period.

Look at our Cruiser in game, only twin 5 inch Forward, twin 5 inch Aft. Lets add 6 more twin 5 inch to a cruiser and see what realism looks like.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: The Fugitive on June 10, 2012, 01:57:05 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:

I'll keep it short,

Your Wrong !
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on June 10, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short

absolutely right :aok

puffy modelling is a bad joke.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 10, 2012, 02:24:51 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:

He-111 damaged by flak.  It was some pretty nifty flying and a miracle the He-111 made it home to its base in Italy.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/He-111/Heinkel-He-111/images/Heinkel-He-111H-battle-damaged-from-flack-after-a-night-sortie-01.jpg)

Unfortunately, these guys weren't as lucky as these planes (and probably crew) never made it home.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraft/bomber/consolidated-b-24-liberator-bomber/consolidated-b-24-liberator-bomber-hit-by-flak-04.png)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3630861572_066d649074.jpg)

(http://www.spitfirepilots.com/images/bostons/773px-Douglas_A-20J-10-DO_050606-F-1234P-024_USAF.jpg)


ack-ack
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on June 10, 2012, 02:29:50 PM
I cant remember the last time I saw level bombers like that torn up by puffy in AH.

maneuvering high speed fighters sure, but not buffs flying straight and level.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Karnak on June 10, 2012, 02:37:40 PM
I cant remember the last time I saw level bombers like that torn up by puffy in AH.

maneuvering high speed fighters sure, but not buffs flying straight and level.
That is a function of the "hit point" damage model, not so much the ack.  A Bf109 takes a hit for 50 hit points to the wing root and the Bf109's inner wing has 35 hit points causing the Bf109 to lose its wing.  A B-17G takes the same hit, but its inner wing has 150 hit points which causes the game to show a few holes in the B-17's wing.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: AceHavok on June 10, 2012, 10:03:28 PM
If you want realistic carrier ack, look at a picture of a Atlanta Class light cruiser.  Also,  look at a Allen M. Sumner class destroyer,  6 5in cannons.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Raphael on June 10, 2012, 10:08:53 PM
realistic would mean a lot harder to survive just on going by a CV
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: 100Coogn on June 10, 2012, 10:10:16 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:

If you watch the puffy ack clouds closely, you'll notice that each 'puff-cloud' is identical in shape.

Just sayin'

Coogan  :)
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: AceHavok on June 11, 2012, 12:13:28 AM
I got 1-hit by ack once!  or maybe I ran into a mountain?  Nerf the mountains!   :banana:
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: kvuo75 on June 11, 2012, 12:38:51 AM
drive cv on shore, vulch cap via auto puffy ack.. yep good gameplay.  :aok


Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: titanic3 on June 11, 2012, 07:38:38 AM
Auto puffy is stupid. Simple solution? Make the manned 5in gunner able to control the real amount of guns on a ship. Kinda like how bomber gunners work. Man one position, control 10+ guns.

That way, the REAL threat to a CV can be killed and the faraway targets going at 400mph in a dive doesn't get insta pilot killed because he went to 3001 ft.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Butcher on June 11, 2012, 08:35:04 AM
drive cv on shore, vulch cap via auto puffy ack.. yep good gameplay.  :aok

My solution is to disable Puffy ack once a Carrier enters a radar ring of an enemy base, this controls the ack capping of carriers, and requires people to actively defend the carrier once its within range of an enemy base.

Seems fair since they can fly above 3k and if you are taking off and climb to 3k you get blown away from puffy.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Tracerfi on June 11, 2012, 05:49:02 PM
Look at what ack guns are available on a warship in game, now look at a real New Orleans class Heavy Cruiser (USS Vincesses):

6x 8 inch guns forward
3x 8 inch guns rear
4x 5 inch Mk 10 guns Left Side
4x 5 inch guns right side
8x twin 40mm Bofors left side
8x twin 40mm Bofos right side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA Guns left side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA guns right side

Do you really want to whine about the ACK? Let HTC add ALL of the gun batteries of a Heavy Cruiser/Anti Aircraft Cruiser or Light Cruiser and watch when you can't even get within 6k of a Carrier fleet because its unstoppable, your only gamble is to climb to 20k and dive bomb the CV and hop you can make it through the ack and the majority of the time you won't.

In my opinion we have some 1941 AAA Setup, if HTC ever decided to beef up the ACK he could goto a 1944 setup and nobody would dare go near a Carrier TF period.

Look at our Cruiser in game, only twin 5 inch Forward, twin 5 inch Aft. Lets add 6 more twin 5 inch to a cruiser and see what realism looks like.
OK  :bolt:
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: guncrasher on June 11, 2012, 06:12:53 PM
My solution is to disable Puffy ack once a Carrier enters a radar ring of an enemy base, this controls the ack capping of carriers, and requires people to actively defend the carrier once its within range of an enemy base.

Seems fair since they can fly above 3k and if you are taking off and climb to 3k you get blown away from puffy.


now this would be a good chance.  keeps cv's away from being 50 feet offshore.


semp
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Butcher on June 11, 2012, 10:19:43 PM
now this would be a good chance.  keeps cv's away from being 50 feet offshore.


semp

LVT's won't be an issue - if you stay at the dar ring then you get no LVT's you have to close onto the base - in which case the puffy is disabled. Thus allows defenders to take off and climb, except they still deal with ship ack.
Not sure how this is going to be coded, It would have ack disabled for enemy bases only not friendly bases - for example if the Carrier is at its port and someone flys near it - they get puffy.

It would stop those from trying to CAP fields with puffy while climbing 15k over the CV, and allow defenders to defend without getting 1 shot, the only draw back is what happens when a Set of bombers fly over the CV and its inside dar ring?
Frankly carrier puffy does nothing to buffs anyhow, its mainly the biggest problem to fighters. It would cause some game change, people would have to CAP cv's which you rarely see (not sure why I always few CAP over a CV with a chog, worked out fine)
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: guncrasher on June 12, 2012, 01:05:29 AM
I dont even remember the last time I lost a b26 to either puffy or mg rounds.  actually I dont even remember the last time i lost one to manned guns either.  it's so easy to sink the cv's from 6k that ack or lack of wont make a difference.

as for lvts you can extend the range.


semp
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Mitsu on June 12, 2012, 01:31:50 AM
He-111 damaged by flak.  It was some pretty nifty flying and a miracle the He-111 made it home to its base in Italy.
(http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/He-111/Heinkel-He-111/images/Heinkel-He-111H-battle-damaged-from-flack-after-a-night-sortie-01.jpg)

Unfortunately, these guys weren't as lucky as these planes (and probably crew) never made it home.
(http://www.wwiivehicles.com/usa/aircraft/bomber/consolidated-b-24-liberator-bomber/consolidated-b-24-liberator-bomber-hit-by-flak-04.png)

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3630861572_066d649074.jpg)

(http://www.spitfirepilots.com/images/bostons/773px-Douglas_A-20J-10-DO_050606-F-1234P-024_USAF.jpg)


ack-ack

Nice photos AKAK.  :aok
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Motherland on June 12, 2012, 11:29:43 AM
Look at what ack guns are available on a warship in game, now look at a real New Orleans class Heavy Cruiser (USS Vincesses):

6x 8 inch guns forward
3x 8 inch guns rear
4x 5 inch Mk 10 guns Left Side
4x 5 inch guns right side
8x twin 40mm Bofors left side
8x twin 40mm Bofos right side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA Guns left side
10-20x 20mm Oerlikon AA guns right side

Do you really want to whine about the ACK? Let HTC add ALL of the gun batteries of a Heavy Cruiser/Anti Aircraft Cruiser or Light Cruiser and watch when you can't even get within 6k of a Carrier fleet because its unstoppable, your only gamble is to climb to 20k and dive bomb the CV and hop you can make it through the ack and the majority of the time you won't.

In my opinion we have some 1941 AAA Setup, if HTC ever decided to beef up the ACK he could goto a 1944 setup and nobody would dare go near a Carrier TF period.

Look at our Cruiser in game, only twin 5 inch Forward, twin 5 inch Aft. Lets add 6 more twin 5 inch to a cruiser and see what realism looks like.
That's pretty much what our cruiser has, maybe missing some of the 40mm and 20mm guns, but I mean as far as puffy goes...
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: RTHolmes on June 12, 2012, 11:33:06 AM
yeah thats what we have already, and they are all operational ...  :headscratch:
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: tunnelrat on June 12, 2012, 02:54:02 PM
I circled a CV in my TA-152H at 18-22k last night (squaddies were down low, I'd been hunting buffs).

I stayed in the puffy as an experiment... to see how long I would last, and because I was wondering whether or not the puffy going after me would relieve the pressure on the boys below...

I was up there flying in it for 5-10 minutes before I came down to the fight on the deck (with the expected results  :joystick: ) and never got pinged once by the puffy.

A couple of months ago it seemed a LOT worse than it does now... so I dunno if I am just luckier these days or what.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Butcher on June 12, 2012, 03:13:40 PM
I circled a CV in my TA-152H at 18-22k last night (squaddies were down low, I'd been hunting buffs).

I stayed in the puffy as an experiment... to see how long I would last, and because I was wondering whether or not the puffy going after me would relieve the pressure on the boys below...

I was up there flying in it for 5-10 minutes before I came down to the fight on the deck (with the expected results  :joystick: ) and never got pinged once by the puffy.

A couple of months ago it seemed a LOT worse than it does now... so I dunno if I am just luckier these days or what.


Here's a test for ya, take up an I-16 and climb to 2.9k - find a CV then zoom climb straight up, watch how fast you go bang.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: tunnelrat on June 13, 2012, 10:07:42 AM
Here's a test for ya, take up an I-16 and climb to 2.9k - find a CV then zoom climb straight up, watch how fast you go bang.


I will do this, but only because I love flying the I-16 haha

Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: icepac on June 13, 2012, 10:57:49 AM
Then fly a spitfire XIV over an enemy cv at 35,000 feet and 400+mph.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Butcher on June 13, 2012, 10:59:54 AM
Then fly a spitfire XIV over an enemy cv at 35,000 feet and 400+mph.

Haven't done this, but did have a Fw190d9 at 25k hunting a Buff group when I met puffy ack, puffy + dora 9's radiator = dead plane
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: icepac on June 13, 2012, 08:16:21 PM
Puffy ack is a pretty good solution but it just needs a little bit of adjustment.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: MK-84 on June 13, 2012, 08:33:26 PM
I dislike that it's a mathematical formula that decides whether we take a hit or not.  For the people that complain that "I was doing 400 at 10k and i died...."

That's rather unlikely you are exaggerating, or are extremely unlucky, and probably do not know that speed and distance are not the only factors.

I believe these are the factors that determine your probability of being hit:

     Speed
     Distance
     G loading  (are you maneuvering?)

I believe that what happens is that whenever the puffy shoots at you it puts a random puff inside an area, or bubble around your aircraft.  The bubble's size being determined by the above criteria.

*Finally and as pure speculation, I suspect that this bubble is generated at a specific moment based on the exact state of your aircraft when it "shoots at you."  Which means if you are maneuvering like crazy but at that brief moment the ack fires and you just happen to be showing low G loading, your probability of getting hit still goes up.
      *In theory timing as well.  I doubt that when the game decides to "shoot at you" with puffy that it remembers anything previous except for the moment  that there is a puff in your hit bubble.  This means that at the exact moment the game shoots puffy at you
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: AceHavok on June 13, 2012, 08:48:38 PM
If you aren't maneuvering of course you will get hit,  The only planes that can probably get away with that is bombers.  If you're in a fighter you need to alter your altitude, speed, and heading etc. Honestly, puffy ack is a bit toned down then what it actually was like in real life.


Warthog
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: MK-84 on June 13, 2012, 09:04:23 PM
If you aren't maneuvering of course you will get hit,  The only planes that can probably get away with that is bombers.  If you're in a fighter you need to alter your altitude, speed, and heading etc. Honestly, puffy ack is a bit toned down then what it actually was like in real life.


Warthog

Per my previous post I think you have to be maneuvering at the exact moment that it shoots at you, and a bomber, assuming the hit bubble or area is the same should be more likely be hit as a result.  Granted it's tougher and should if be more likely to survive that hit.  I wonder though that if you have three aircraft if the hit bubble is three times as big, or it selects one aircraft out of the three and then creates that bubble around just that aircraft?  Either way it would be much less likely to destroy a bomber formation as opposed to a single fighter.

So is the bomber getting through because you have more aircraft and tougher aircraft?  That would make sense.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: Karnak on June 13, 2012, 10:39:53 PM
I lost a P-47N while doing my fighter-bomber performance tests offline today.  I was running my 10,000ft WEP speed test on an unladen P-47N doing something over 300mph and accelerating when I entered range of an enemy fleet.  Less than 20 seconds later I was a fireball.
Title: Re: Realistic Puffy Ack
Post by: WING47 on June 14, 2012, 12:37:25 PM
As I have gotten  :furious about this one before the Ack seems to strong in the arenas In WW2 films a have seen it does not to that much damage Just wondering if this is possbile and guys I dont want this to be one whole Mess thread so please keep it short


RedBaron  :bolt:
If a 88mm shell blew up next to or directly on an aircraft what do you think is gonna happen :aok