Aces High Bulletin Board
Special Events Forums => Friday Squad Operations => Topic started by: Viper61 on July 07, 2012, 02:18:24 AM
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<S> to all of the AXIS Squads for the efforts made by all. In every sector I know everyone was giving it their all and most fought outnumbered and out matched in the AC types. Never the less in 1 location the ALLIES were soundly thrashed. But in others they ate us up.
My plan was fairly simple and limited by the setup in that with only about 140 guys trying to cover 4 defensive locations and attack 4 others you get left with about 2 squads in each area. Got the Task Order out Sunday night early to all everyone ample time to plan internally. I also figured turnout would be problematic due to the 4th being 2 days ago and a lot of folks on vacation.
Turnout was light with the AXIS side being just 9 above their min number projections. And 10 less than the ALLIES at start.
I limited our 2 engined bombers to the bare minimum's to limit exposure to what I knew would be tuff buff missions to accomplish. Glad I did and I know the Strike Packages had it tuff. They were instructed to drop the 6 hangers only at each base and nothing else. So only a total of 18 bombers was planned for. Not including the D3A's of the Task Group attack.
I strengthened the defenses over the far east and far west figuring due to their locations they would see 2nd sorties or after H+60 furballing which they did.
I was surprised by the 2nd strike to the AXIS Task Group. I had hoped that it was far enough out of reach for a second strike. But the ALLIES hustled well and made it up there twice and we lost the entire fleet on the second strike as the defensive CAP was eliminated on by the first sortie in. A second strike to the ALLIED Task Group wasn't possible due to the speeds of the IJN AC. And sense we can no longer dedicate a squad to attack after H+60 as their 1st attack a second strike just wasn't possible to the ALLIED Task Group.
Due to some limited turn outs on the AXIS side we slipped over on our KI-61 allocation by 9 AC. However given the turnout of Frame 01 we could have used another 20 KI-61's and probably not evened the fighting.
I had a chance to witness as a gunner the attack onto the enemy's Task Group. They got swarmed by F4U's which completely out class the A6M's. And the D3A's of course didn't stand much of a chance either. They did get the CA but there was no chance of a second strike. As the IJN AC just don't fly that fast. And sending in G4M's I doubt would have worked nor would they have escaped either.
Have to pass on a Big <S> to JG11 who bagged 29 kills or 34% of all of the AXIS kills. A superb effort.
I made a mistake in the orders which caused some confusion in the East and defense of A99 and IJN vs. IJAFF AC. In short while making my plan I forgot to switch some numbers around and allocated a AC you couldn't fly. It did get it corrected but squads ended up practicing in the wrong AC and it weakened the defenses at that location. Completely my mistake.
Bottom line the AXIS got soundly beaten in all areas of Frame 01 (Kill's and Objects destroyed). <S> Warloc and the ALLIED side.
Personnel opinion for whats its worth. The setup needs a bit of tweaks to make it possible for the AXIS to have a fair chance at winning right now they don't. Changing up the AC percentages would probably help. And there isn't an easy way to get a fight between the KI-61's and F4U's. Leaving the A6M's to handle the swarms of F4U's alone. Yes Swarms with a capital "S". Also there needs to be a Alt CAP in order to even up the fighting.
Also the planning is difficult to adhere to the special rules and not exceed your percentages per AC type and side or force numbers. Its a game please make it simple. I understand the historical perceptive and that part is really neat. But not as easy to plan as you might think if you want to try to maximize your AC types and force structure. Again just my 2 cents and not complaining either. Love what the CM's do to make this game what it is. Just providing my comments in the hopes of bettering the game.
Viper61
AXIS CIC
Frame 01
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Well written :salute
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It's sometimes hard to get the percentages right as the CiCs do not control individual squad turnouts (I wish we could). Its a case of trying to be within the limits and its never going to be bang on. As for the downdraft (the setup CM mentioned it) I asked about that and was informed there wasn't any so we were not doing anything deliberate re being above a max alt ect. In fairness the G4Ms I engaged were @24k or better at A108.
I made an error myself in the orders (assigned a squad twice :o) but it got sorted out as it was caught a day or so before the frame. Hey we aren't perfect.
We did our CiC duty Viper, and my compliments for you getting your orders out so fast! :salute to the Axis.
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Personnel opinion for whats its worth. The setup needs a bit of tweaks to make it possible for the AXIS to have a fair chance at winning right now they don't. Changing up the AC percentages would probably help. And there isn't an easy way to get a fight between the KI-61's and F4U's. Leaving the A6M's to handle the swarms of F4U's alone. Yes Swarms with a capital "S". Also there needs to be a Alt CAP in order to even up the fighting.
An alt cap is not going to even up the fighting IMO and I'm not going to change it at this late date adding even more confusion to the alt cap subject. Even if there had been a 25K alt cap the results would have been the same for the G4Ms attempting to attack A-108. The G4Ms were all at high alt in one big formation with close escort flying a predictable path to the target. The CAP for 108 never saw any threats to 108 other than the G4Ms and their close escort before making contact. So all of their targets were massed in one group at a similar altitude. If you look on the Allied side their B-25Cs didn't fare any better than the G4Ms. Nor did US TBMs fare any better then Japanese D3As.
The destruction of 15 G4Ms by F4U-1s is being potrayed as a travesty and the destruction of 20 B-25s by Ki-61s a superb effort? Your rising sun is showing Viper. ;)
I changed the percentages late last night cutting down on the number of Corsairs and upping the Ki-61s. Plus added 20 Ki-61s assigned to IJN Command in the Solomons area.
Hopefully this will aid the Axis in the Eastern part of the map. Also ALLIED CICs NOTE: RAAF aircraft will no longer operate in the Solomon Islands on the Eastern part of the map. This area is strictly USN/USMC.
Viper you did a first class job as CIC as did Warloc. I appreciate your input on the setup as well as your hard work on the orders.
:salute
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Thanks Viper. <S> Always enjoy flying for the you when you are CiC.
Best part of JG11's success last night was that it was another "No Casualty" flight. We all made it home, minus 1 disco. For me...that trumps our victory count. Thanks for the opportunity.
<S>
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An alt cap is not going to even up the fighting IMO and I'm not going to change it at this late date. Even if there had been a 25K alt cap the results would have been the same for the G4Ms attempting to attack A-108. The G4Ms were all at high alt in one big formation with close escort flying a predictable path to the target. The CAP for 108 never saw any threats to 108 other than the G4Ms and their close escort before making contact. So all of their targets were massed in one group at a similar altitude. If you look on the Allied side their B-25Cs didn't fare any better than the G4Ms. Nor did US TBMs fare any better then Japanese D3As.
:salute
This is just a small taste of historical accuracy. What happen at A108 was a freak mixup of orders on the Japanese escorts side, however one thing is forgotten the attackers were facing a veteran squad as well in a dominate ride, as Pand pointed out a "turkey shoot".
Not here to brag, but even if the Zekes were up at 30k, it wouldn't make much of a difference.
I've seen the FSO guys really do their homework in balancing out the scenarios and frames, I can imagine next frame there won't be any F4us at all - but please don't base this on on attack over A108, that was a minor flaw over orders giving the allied defenders a major "advantage".
I know the japanese will be decisive in the next frame and things will balance out again - this is one of those few Pacific theater events that I wait for every year, hoping one day I can get one on one with HighTone and his Zeke :x
If I could ever help out I certainly would join the FSO admins just to hang around and watch what you guys do, I would never be apart of the staff for sure but certainly would help out any way I could.
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Personnel opinion for whats its worth. The setup needs a bit of tweaks to make it possible for the AXIS to have a fair chance at winning right now they don't. Changing up the AC percentages would probably help. And there isn't an easy way to get a fight between the KI-61's and F4U's. Leaving the A6M's to handle the swarms of F4U's alone. Yes Swarms with a capital "S". Also there needs to be a Alt CAP in order to even up the fighting.
Looking back at the numbers of aircraft used and reading the Op Orders again, I believe our CiC may have made a mistake. The set up calls for: USMC: F4U-1s are allowed to make up to 40% of USMC Fighter Forces the remainder 60% will be F4Fs.
Using the maximum commitment for each squad, I calculated that 74% of USMC Fighter aircraft were F4U-1's assigned, and 26% of the F4F's were assigned. The actual numbers were even a bit more skewed. TBM's were not considered in the calculation since the set up specified Fighter aircraft.
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Looking back at the numbers of aircraft used and reading the Op Orders again, I believe our CiC may have made a mistake. The set up calls for: USMC: F4U-1s are allowed to make up to 40% of USMC Fighter Forces the remainder 60% will be F4Fs.
Using the maximum commitment for each squad, I calculated that 74% of USMC Fighter aircraft were F4U-1's assigned, and 26% of the F4F's were assigned. The actual numbers were even a bit more skewed. TBM's were not considered in the calculation since the set up specified Fighter aircraft.
The percentages were changed last night after Frame-1 to add some balance. The original setup called for 60% F4U-1s and 40% F4Fs. No mistake was made by either CIC.
See this thread. http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,335895.0.html
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Good comments all. Always enjoy a good AAR page after a fight for 2 days. As a CIC you can never can be everywhere so these comments greatly help in appreciating the entire frame. Great comments on the AXIS A108 attack as compared to the ALLIED A39 attack as I had no visibility at either. Except for Stampf's buffer comments on our side as it was happening. Stampf was in charge of the defense at A39 with JG11 and 332nd. That paints a different picture for me.
After hearing the comments on the Alt Cap issue I'll drop that. And your right it probably wont have made a difference and its hard to police in the game. Better and easier to make adjustments in other locations to balance out the game play.
After having a few hours of sleep and rerunning the scenario in my head I think the changes you made Shifty should balance it enough without completely reversing to a AXIS dominated win. Which I don't want to see either.
Appreciate the good comments one and all <S>. I enjoy the FSO a lot like the rest of you and really only fly in AHII because of this event. And the planning and control functions as the CIC are fun to me as long as I am home to do them :cool:
Last comment - What about reducing each sides attacking and defending targets from 8 (4 defending and 4 attacking) to 6 (3 defending and 3 attacking). Side turnout using last night as the example strained the resources for each side. Reducing from 8 to 6 as an example would have freed up 4 to 5 squads on the AXIS side. I would have then provided a 3rd squad to each 2 squad Strike Package. This would have opened up the plan to allow for different options to the Strike Package CO having more resources. I "think" we would see better game play at the targets with more complex operations involving 2 layered attack plans and the use or scouts and deception operations. Again just a comment.
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Last comment - What about reducing each sides attacking and defending targets from 8 (4 defending and 4 attacking) to 6 (3 defending and 3 attacking). Side turnout using last night as the example strained the resources for each side. Reducing from 8 to 6 as an example would have freed up 4 to 5 squads on the AXIS side. I would have then provided a 3rd squad to each 2 squad Strike Package. This would have opened up the plan to allow for different options to the Strike Package CO having more resources. I "think" we would see better game play at the targets with more complex operations involving 2 layered attack plans and the use or scouts and deception operations. Again just a comment.
Already in the works for Frame II. I'm trying to get Objectives out early this afternoon. My wife expects me to have a life and take her out this evening. :D
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Already in the works for Frame II. I'm trying to get Objectives out early this afternoon. My wife expects me to have a life and take her out this evening. :D
Oh bah.. McD's drive-thru only takes a few minutes.
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A39 Defense.
III/JG11 fielded (10) Ki-61's and the 332nd fielded (5) A6M2's in the effort.
With this relatively small group we set up 2 rings, one within the other, and kept ourselves close to the target. First in was a group of P-38's...and they came in guns blazing, so we ignored them, and let them penetrate into the inner ring where the 332nd was patrolling. Several times the 38's tried to pull us out of our defensive range, but both groups exhibited excellent discipline and maintained a tight noose around the target. A good effort was made by the lightnings to clear the airspace over target, but with the long time lag between their arrival and nothing else arriving, it was fairly obvious was was going down. Finally a scout/pathfinding 38 was spotted on the deck, and after releasing a single plane to dispatch him, the noe strike group was found.
Alone, and on the deck...the enemy B-25's were at our mercy...and were destroyed. We then mopped up the 38's and rearmed. Late frame hunting found us down by A12 were we located a destroyed a group of (4) P-40's. We then headed east to the coast to try to attempt an intercept on Allied strikers RTB from hitting the fleet to the north. None were found and with only 1 minute left in the frame, we touched down without loss (1 disco) at A43.
(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/stampf/ahfilmcg.jpg)
<S> 332nd Flying Mongrels. Well done.
<S> Allied attackers. The 38's did all they could to clear that space, and less disciplined defenders may have fallen for it. A good effort.
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Our attack on the Allied CV was a really good fight. We designed the strike group to avoid any scouts on a b-line course through A103 airspace. All fighters stayed where they were supposed to and get high. Embedded escorts stayed with the D3As. At specific intervals, we launched our sweep and search fighters. They were to over fly the target area and report and try to continue east. The next fighter group would already be inbound only to smash over the CV at altitude from a 180 degree offset. While one group was to push the fight down, the other squad was to remain high and pick on any fighters trying to climb back up through the CAP. We then turned in the D3As and sent our embedded escorts direct to engage immediately. One miscalculation... ...we never knew about nor saw the F4U1s until the CV was in sight. We got swarmed. OUr remaining fighters did everything they could. I believe I avoided 5 passes. I was 15 seconds to drop and all of a sudden, both wings were missing. In the end, we managed to punch through and get the CA, and got some bombs on DD1. But that was it for us. I believe only 1 D3A and 1 fighter from G3-MF made it home. I think a couple from JG2 made it home. Mostly, we all died for the Emperor.
A big :salute to JG2 and FATE (and the Gunfighters that are flying with G3-MF this month). You guys executed the plan perfectly. I couldn't be happier about that.
A big :salute to VF17 Jolly Rogers for thorwing us off balance in the final minutes of our strike.
A big :salute to all the Allied forces over that task group. You guys made for a fun night!
:cheers:
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Good defending A39 with JG11. WTG! <S>
As the frame drew to a close, Kansas and I were vectored to try to defend the remnants of our fleet. Unfortunately, Kansas got there a little bit before I did.. and when I did finally encounter the attackers I gazed down upon them from my A6M2...
(http://www.airmageddon.com/drone/ithinknot.jpg)
After which I confirmed the wide swath of yellow running down my back.. uttered a girly - girl little squeal and, realizing I had a fresh case of double barrel sake waiting for me back at base, decided to return to it.
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First off let me give a thumbs up for my squad :aok, teamwork and communication were excellent. Lots of over watchers keeping the low guys safe, and thanks to blue flight for staying high cover. All those monday night Hog nights and hours of training for the last year finally come together :rock.
Now for the AAR. Our job was to defend C95 a Cruiser group, We were the only ones tasked with this as far as I know, didn't see any other squads near the cruisers group. If I remember our first contact was West of the cruiser group at about T+35/40, we ran into a set of about 5-6 A6M3's co-alt at about 26k or so. Being that we had about 18 pilots that night, they were forced down and defensive very quickly, I think 1 or 2 may have been shot down at this point. We maintained our alt and let the zeros go that were left. About 5 minutes later our cruiser started flashing and we all made a B line for it. We found what I believe what was left of our first group of zero's encountered, quite a ways below us and a few higher ones. There was a little confusion as to how many zero's where, especially high ones. We were kinda milling about with the high ones so they were kinda hard to pick out from friendlies with the short icons. Most of these were pushed down in fairly short order as well, in which case we now had the high ground over the zero's and proceded to B&Z them at our leisure for the most part with high hogs watching the low ones. A good portion of us were staying high waiting for the other shoe to fall, and didn't want to get sucked down trying to kill the remaining low zero's. At about T+50 as many of us were circling over the boats and climbing somebody gave a VAL call out and we knew the strike was finally here. We started pushing that way, some of our squad was already mixed in before I got there, with most of the cover already below 15k directly behind the VALs. The Zero escort was close in tight enough behind the VALs that I had to find a hole to slip in behind them. Unfortunately for us the zero escorts kept us busy long enough that the VAls got a run in, a few got picked off early (sorry Rodent for removing your tail) but I saw at least 3 make a good run in. After that, all the enemy planes seem to be mostly low and we began to mop up. I have to give credit to the early A6M3's, those guys fought it out against bad odds for a long time. Had to be a bad feeling with all those Hogs above, but you fought with great bravery :aok Well we lost the cruiser, good job Vals getting in there under heavy resistance :aok. AFter everything died down we re-armed and looked for a fight up north, but Topgun beat us to it :mad:, I really did want to out kill them this frame in one of our aircraft :cry.
In synopsis, we never got hit by a large enough group of A6M3's to even tie up the entire squad, we always had at least a wings worth (6-8) of planes free to cover the others. So air superiority over target was never really questioned.
:salute
BigRat
PS Way to Go JG11 :aok, hope to find you on our side of the map next time :D
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. The G4Ms were all at high alt in one big formation with close escort flying a predictable path to the target.
The location of 108 makes it fairly easy to defend. Location and radar rings funnel attackers into two possible avenues of attack. Regardless of that, the plan was selected to take advantage of the 25K maximum downdraft which we now know was not implemented. Not sure how the plan would differ as getting the G4M to target seems to involve a lot of luck. Also, what up with the Dar Bar setting? I really don't know how to include it in my plan as there is no mention of it in the setup. I see where it says "No Dot Dar", so if I don't see "No Dar Bar" does that mean there will be a Dar Bar? I know Dar Bar is not the norm. I saw the text after take off about Dar Bar but it not like I am going to change my plan on some setting I don't understand. Thanks for your time.
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Butcher... It was late when I uploaded the logs.... Were you killed by DrBone? An Inquiry is underway.... From the Setup point of view, I saw alot of great fights. I watched in Godseye as Angel dropped on 79's Cruiser.... And the map? Those looked like Custom sky colors... :salute FSO Squads
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Butcher... It was late when I uploaded the logs.... Were you killed by DrBone? An Inquiry is underway.... From the Setup point of view, I saw alot of great fights. I watched in Godseye as Angel dropped on 79's Cruiser.... And the map? Those looked like Custom sky colors... :salute FSO Squads
I received a buffer message in white text that Butcher had collided with me. But no orange text saying I had collided. When I saw the text I checked my rear view and he was missing half his wing on the way down.
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Butcher... It was late when I uploaded the logs.... Were you killed by DrBone? An Inquiry is underway.... From the Setup point of view, I saw alot of great fights. I watched in Godseye as Angel dropped on 79's Cruiser.... And the map? Those looked like Custom sky colors... :salute FSO Squads
I Dropped in to engage a G4m in which Drbone was diving in also - I set the betty on fire however bone put one (uno) single round hit me - it was a hole through my cockpit screen - i got separated from TG and engaged 3-4 zekes on my own and ended up flaming 3 - however one either rammed or collided with me and I ended up losing a wing in the process, no bullets hit me, it gives credit to bone since he actually hit me lol.
Two zekes I set fire on one pass, however while trailing a third zeke i got rammed by a 4th - of course I lost my wing in the collision - i bailed one second after being hit realizing I was not going to crab an f4u back to base.
In my opinion - Bone did NOT shoot me down, its just a regular "bail out".
I was given credit for one zeke, the second I didn't get credit for (not sure about this one) , the third that I shot down wasn't credited to anyone since I flamed him and bailed out one minute later.
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Great Squad AAR's from JG11 and G3MF. And from the defenders of the ALLIED Task Group :salute Always enjoyable to read what the other squads were doing and what they were thinking as the battle unfolded for them. Always good lessons learned that you can apply into your own squad and actions. Appreciate the AAR adder's.
Shifty - Excellent changes for Frame 02!! Keeps the same story line but makes some great changes which will change up the strategies of both sides. Often by Frame 03 it can become more of the same just in a different location. This will keep everyone on their toes. Great changes :salute
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So axis pay their penance and are forgiven for kicking bellybutton in Europe by becoming target practice in PTO. it's the circle of life.
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I know the japanese will be decisive in the next frame and things will balance out again - this is one of those few Pacific theater events that I wait for every year, hoping one day I can get one on one with HighTone and his Zeke :x
Same here, I love having the Ki-61 in an event before the Phillipines and very much look forward to these setups.
I am dieing to get into the Zeke 3 for the first time in an FSO. Maybe this week that will work out.
The LCA is loving it so far...thanks Viper!!
And thanks Shifty for the setup :salute
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Thanks Viper and Hightone, I'm very happy you guys are enjoying it.
:salute
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Note to self: Next time SPit5s are tasked with killing KI67s at 26k-30k TG will look for another area to defend. :lol
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Note to self: Next time SPit5s are tasked with killing KI67s at 26k-30k TG will look for another area to defend. :lol
It can always be worse.
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Note to self: Next time SPit5s are tasked with killing KI67s at 26k-30k TG will look for another area to defend. :lol
If it makes you feel any better, your attack was well timed and caused almost all of us to miss our targets on the drop.
I snipped the combat portion of the film.. 20 minutes continuous combat before the last spit was dispatched/dissuaded.
:salute
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:aok
Glad to hear there were some challenges. Looking over the logs tells a tale in itself.
:salute
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:lol Yes you are right could have been worse, Instead of telling my guys forget these 67s let them hit the target and find some fighters we were dumb enough to try and follow like good little lemmings. :joystick:
On a more serious note this frame caused me to lose 2 of my Best FSO pilots. :cry
Next time we wont be chasing Bombers we cant catch. :aok
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:aok
Yup, In a perfect world you can have everything YOUR way. Good Luck with that!
<S>
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I know axis needed a decisive vctory but when does a 44 bird match with early war? Spit viii should of been readily available. just saying :)
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:lol Yes you are right could have been worse, Instead of telling my guys forget these 67s let them hit the target and find some fighters we were dumb enough to try and follow like good little lemmings. :joystick:
On a more serious note this frame caused me to lose 2 of my Best FSO pilots. :cry
Next time we wont be chasing Bombers we cant catch. :aok
One bad frame and people quit.
You have to follow the orders of the CiC even if you do not like them.
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One bad frame and people quit.
You have to follow the orders of the CiC even if you do not like them.
Good info to know
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Good info to know
Just helping you out.
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Just helping you out.
thanks!
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thanks!
No problem!
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:lol :aok Sukov
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I try to be helpful to the newer FSO squads sometimes they seem to need it. :aok
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I know axis needed a decisive vctory but when does a 44 bird match with early war? Spit viii should of been readily available. just saying :)
For the time frame Butcher, Shifty is correct with the Spitfire Vs. The VIIIs didn't start arriving until late 43 and really didn't get into operational service until early 44. The only thing you could suggest is subbing the Seafire IIc for the Spitfire Vc that the RAAF had so the ammo load is correct for an RAAF Spit Vc. But those Spits also had the big tropical filter under the nose so performance was reduced. The Spit Vs did struggle to keep up in the PTO due to that and other reasons.
Sometimes you just gotta make due with what you've got....remembering fighting A5s in my Spit V in the previous scenario :)
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WHOA, lots of crying here, I must have missed the sign on the way in:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMLpSIGoHR4c0ICqjYVCJgAVaFID2rzq9BVD9NKcZoRS_In-pIuA)
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For the time frame Butcher, Shifty is correct with the Spitfire Vs. The VIIIs didn't start arriving until late 43 and really didn't get into operational service until early 44. The only thing you could suggest is subbing the Seafire IIc for the Spitfire Vc that the RAAF had so the ammo load is correct for an RAAF Spit Vc. But those Spits also had the big tropical filter under the nose so performance was reduced. The Spit Vs did struggle to keep up in the PTO due to that and other reasons.
Sometimes you just gotta make due with what you've got....remembering fighting A5s in my Spit V in the previous scenario :)
Really, Ki-67s from what I remember wern't operational until early/mid 44 - can't recall but I think it was primarily used around philippines or formosa which puts it 1944 if not late 1944. Correct me if I am wrong.
I don't have any AAR in which Ki-67s were in operation around New Guinea, maybe someone can provide those for me?
(not trying to be a smartass but kind of curious the setup, I know the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory given the first frame screw ups, but really? why not even the playing fields a little?)
Instead of putting late war bombers why not have someone escort betties with zeroes instead of having some late war buffs flying at 28k that simply out run the fighters.
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Really, Ki-67s from what I remember wern't operational until early/mid 44 - can't recall but I think it was primarily used around philippines or formosa which puts it 1944 if not late 1944. Correct me if I am wrong.
I don't have any AAR in which Ki-67s were in operation around New Guinea, maybe someone can provide those for me?
(not trying to be a smartass but kind of curious the setup, I know the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory given the first frame screw ups, but really? why not even the playing fields a little?)
Instead of putting late war bombers why not have someone escort betties with zeroes instead of having some late war buffs flying at 28k that simply out run the fighters.
The Ki-67's are subbing for the Ki-49's that we don't have. Problem with just subbing it with the Betty is the Ki-49 was faster and had pilot armor and self sealing tanks. Its a work around that gives a bit to the Axis favor. Happens to both sides from time to time. And very rarely can the Japanese out run anything (the Bettys, B5N's and D3A's cant say that) so again this like you said earlier this happens every so often.
Just gotta get out of Port Moresby and head to the USN :cheers:
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:lol Yes you are right could have been worse, Instead of telling my guys forget these 67s let them hit the target and find some fighters we were dumb enough to try and follow like good little lemmings. :joystick:
On a more serious note this frame caused me to lose 2 of my Best FSO pilots. :cry
I'm guessing that the level of expectation which those 2 pilots should have understood was wrong. You play the cards you are dealt in FSO and you either rise to the occasion or you don't. FSO set ups may not always be perfect but, when they are not, it is not a reason to end it.
Don't let those guys leave FSO, Bone. You know, as well as the rest of us, that on the next FSO night the dice roll just as good as they did on the last throw.
cheers
front
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The way I see it is that the Axis whines of the first frame were about the number of F4U's which only involved 1/3 of the theatre. The "fix" the CM's came up with allowed the increased number of KI's to be spread across the entire theatre.
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The way I see it is that the Axis whines of the first frame were about the number of F4U's which only involved 1/3 of the theatre. The "fix" the CM's came up with allowed the increased number of KI's to be spread across the entire theatre.
The entire FSO has been messed up for one, for example my squad was suppose to have 7-10 pilots - we ended up with 15 on the first frame in Corsairs, second Pand screwed up and believed there was an ALT Cap when there wasn't, so we pretty much slaughtered his group and had enough pilots left over to go hunting, instead of losing quite a few.
Second frame all I heard was "Ki-67s over 34, P40's cant catch them, Spit V's cant catch them" I was over 29 and said hell with it I am not chasing ki67s for whatever 30 minutes of fuel I had left, especially since I can't out run them enough to get in front.
Its one of those dice rolls where both sides got the short end of the stick, very rarely does it happen.
can't wait to see frame three, I want to throw Irishone into a furball with 50 cons and watch how he goes and rages every one of them :x
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I'm guessing that the level of expectation which those 2 pilots should have understood was wrong. You play the cards you are dealt in FSO and you either rise to the occasion or you don't. FSO set ups may not always be perfect but, when they are not, it is not a reason to end it.
Don't let those guys leave FSO, Bone. You know, as well as the rest of us, that on the next FSO night the dice roll just as good as they did on the last throw.
cheers
front
I explained that to them Front, They will prob show up I mean who can pass up some good FSO action honestly. :)
Besides next time I wont order my boys to follow something we cant catch, should have left them be and went for the other attackers, Was my mistake never to happen again. :bhead :salute
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Well, looking at how much damage incurred on both sides (Allied 9, Axis 10), the over all of successful defenses should be noted.
We were intercepted by P40s otw to A34. I was in the lead when they came in from the northwest and they got into the trailing bombers. And then a second group came in and one of them got my starboard engine throwing off my calibration. It slowed me down enough that I was becoming a magnet for the P40s coming in. I managed 2 kills at that point but was unable to get my bombs to the field. I should have ditched the wounded bird to keep my speed up. I lost all 3 bombers and overall our strike on A34 only managed to get 1 gun emplacement, and that was because 2 of my squaddies discod 10 min. after take off, so they went in while the others were being chased north. My squaddies were having trouble with the manual calibration which made me laugh. It's been so long since they had to use it. I practiced before the event so I was confident about it. I didn't anticipate the effects of losing an engine, and I hate to give up a plane for any reason.
:salute to Oaktree and the 353rd and :salute to the defenders of A34. You did your job well enough! :aok
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Besides next time I wont order my boys to follow something we cant catch, should have left them be and went for the other attackers, Was my mistake never to happen again. :bhead :salute
I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already. There were NO other attackers to that field except us. The other squad was a no-show,. and they were supposed to be bombers like us. Had you not attacked us, you would have not seen any other action... so.. would that be better?
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I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already. There were NO other attackers to that field except us. The other squad was a no-show,. and they were supposed to be bombers like us. Had you not attacked us, you would have not seen any other action... so.. would that be better?
Its an anomaly, same as the P40E squad that was suppose to intercept Ki67s - it happens every now and then, frankly by landing aircrafts without risking getting shot down for trying to catch something the same speed of us would be the smarter play.
Every now and then it happens, if there were escorts it would of played out evenly, however I knew the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory after the first frame total massacre.
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The entire FSO has been messed up for one, for example my squad was suppose to have 7-10 pilots - we ended up with 15 on the first frame in Corsairs, second Pand screwed up and believed there was an ALT Cap when there wasn't, so we pretty much slaughtered his group and had enough pilots left over to go hunting, instead of losing quite a few.
Actually Pand didn't screw up, he may not have understood that there was no alt cap but he didn't screw up. He escorted his charges and his squad did the best they could considering the situation they found themselves in. I can't say the same thing for you guys. Your commitment was 7-10 pilots and you flew 15. It is recorded in the logs and it is a clear violation of the rules and one you even admit to. You could have flown with 12 and sat 3 down but you chose to fly 15 and in Corsairs no less. Yet you complain about the difficulty of intercepting Ki-67s in Frame 2 after flying more Corsairs than you were supposed to in Frame 1?
I know the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory given the first frame screw ups
however I knew the Axis were suppose to have a decisive victory after the first frame total massacre.
You've made this statement twice in this thread. How do you know this and from where did you attain this knowledge? The Ki-67s have been in the setup since it's conception. As HighTone pointed out to sub for the Ki-49. The USAAF has P-38s available in this setup that could have been assigned CAP as well. The increased area of operations for the Ki-61 in Frame-2 was not just to help the Axis. Ki-61s did in fact operate from Rabaul for a short time in 1943 while they could be maintained in flying condition. Below is a photo of the remains of two of them at Rabaul's Vunakanau airfield.
(http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr143/mokyme/JAAF%20Aircraft/Ki-45_toryu_Ki-61_Hien_68-sentai_Vu.jpg)
So you really don't KNOW anything as much as you're just throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. This is the FSO you don't always get the best airplane in the setup. If you think you or your squadron has some right to the best aircraft every frame.. You're wrong. The great FSO squads adapt to their ride and do their utmost to accomplish their mission. Win or lose they don't do a lot of crowing or complaining. You guys have beat the stuffing out of this dead horse and the smell is going to start sticking to you.
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I'm surprised nobody has responded to this comment, as you've made it a couple of times already.
I'm not.
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My observation on Frame 2 and the potential AXIS win. My opinion the setup was much better than Frame 01 and it provided the CIC's with many more options than I had in Frame 01 as the AXIS CIC. So Kudo's to Shifty for providing that into the match <S>
The AXIS plan that Perdweeb planned was unorthodox and high risk. When I first saw it I thought at best this would end up a dead even outcome. But it didn't. The squads that had the really tuff Buff missions pulled them off with a high survival rate which surprised me. And this meant twice or three times the numbers of defenders over the targets the ALLIES had to hit vs. Frame 01. When that many more fighters are available then that means scouts out and looking and when done correctly like ours did near A43 nothing got in close without the defenders knowing about it. The ALLIES tried some deception tactics in the west but the radio chatter and buffer traffic figured it out quickly and it didn't work either. The key however was in the unified control at the bases we had to defend. Very well organized and controlled. Not perfect as nothing is but we made it really tuff for the ALLIES.
At 43 where I was Perdweeb and KN's superbly controlled that engagement. Once the scouts located the buffs nearly 50 miles out at only 15K their fate was sealed as multiple AXIS squads lined up at alt to dive in. The Spits did the best that they could but getting hit by "a lot" of fighters in a coordinated attack isn't easy to handle. Nearly text book coordinated attack on a bomber formation from what I saw.
Also the AXIS started with 15 more pilots than the ALLIES. Not a large difference. But I think the locations of the short pilots might have made a difference.
In the end the AXIS plan beat the ALLIED plan, in my opinion. And I really don't think adjusting the planes would have changed that. Perdweeb maximized his combat power at exactly the right locations and most importantly at the right times. And then applied it like a hammer.
Kudos to Perdweeb and his plan <S>
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Thank you Viper for your kind words. It was indeed extremely risky. But I can do math and it all worked out in my head. I am thankful to the bomber guys for executing so well and making it happen when it mattered. I cannot take full credit however, Devil and Sukov helped out tremendously with the orders.
<S>
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Actually Pand didn't screw up, he may not have understood that there was no alt cap but he didn't screw up. He escorted his charges and his squad did the best they could considering the situation they found themselves in. I can't say the same thing for you guys. Your commitment was 7-10 pilots and you flew 15. It is recorded in the logs and it is a clear violation of the rules and one you even admit to. You could have flown with 12 and sat 3 down but you chose to fly 15 and in Corsairs no less. Yet you complain about the difficulty of intercepting Ki-67s in Frame 2 after flying more Corsairs than you were supposed to in Frame 1?
If you want to sit Top Gun out the third frame I understand, since we clearly violated the rules - I completely understand. I admitted in the email we had 15 - its random we have more then 12 on at one time, I DID say in the email if we ever had more then 12 *again* I would certainly have pilots sit out - Frame 2 we didn't boost more then 10 pilots, I doubt we will ever get back to 15 - If you want we can either sit out frame 3 or boost the numbers to 11-15? I won't be attending the third frame, going to sit out this FSO - hopefully we can even manage 7.
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:rofl I want to first point out that this is the first time you have heard from MY SQUAD about anything involving FSO on the second note I would also like to point out how stupid you made yourself look with that post Shifty.
I could say more but FSO is a different ball game and unlike you I wont resort to talking smack about you or the group you come from.
Pand made the mistake of thinking a alt cap was in place which costs his group dearly, Sounds like a "screw up" kinda situation (no offense to Pand) So yes he did screw up, Even if I had 12 Pilots those Buffs would have never made it through.
We do not argue anything about the planes we are put in we only expressed that I made a bad call on attacking Buffs that out run us, You're statement in the above quote is BS.
Another thing I honestly would believe Butcher over you any day of the week and without a Doubt I guarantee he knows more about WW2 History than you , when he is not drunk. :lol
Now had you not posted with such hatred remarks towards my squad I would not have posted, If you wish to continue this send a pm don't be shy. :aok
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Pand made the mistake of thinking a alt cap was in place which costs his group dearly, Sounds like a "screw up" kinda situation (no offense to Pand) So yes he did screw up, Even if I had 12 Pilots those Buffs would have never made it through.
I didn't screw up!!! :rofl My orders said 25K limit--- that's my story and I'm sticking to it! :salute
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:lol I have much respect for you and the DD squad Pand, When I say "you guys would have died anyway" I mean literally 1-2 more squads were right behind us about 7k back inb to you also.
Flying F4U1s also btw.
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:lol I have much respect for you and the DD squad Pand, When I say "you guys would have died anyway" I mean literally 1-2 more squads were right behind us about 7k back inb to you also.
Flying F4U1s also btw.
Yeah I don't disagree--- even co-alt we might have gotten another kill or two but still would have been a slaughter, the longer the fight, the faster we die! :cheers:
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:salute Pand,DDs :cheers:
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Bone! I dont drink and post on the BBS, I fly perk planes and crash into mountains - Although Shifty did point out one detail - the Ki-61s were moved into Wewak airfield to reinforce, and the Ki-49 and Betty was the standard bombers, however the Ki-43 was the main stay fighter in the area, Lae and other sat fields throughout the area. I simply pointed out if he's talking historical - then how does the Ki-67 substitute for the Ki-49? Its extremely fast and heavily armed with armor. Betty would of been a more honest trade off if you are talking historical terms.
Another funny number, the Ki-61s were plagued by mechanical problems pointed out in the book "Fire in the skies" where replacement parts were not simple to come by, a mechanic couldn't simply go to a destroyed plane at the end of the runway and get spare parts, if he did this he was destroying his emperors personal aircraft and a big NO NO. Not like american, for example VT-8 once ripped apart a bunch of aircrafts to patch together one TBM on Guadalcanal just to do bombing sorties, ironically when replacement planes came in the aircraft crashed on landing few days later.
Japanese had a horrible logistics problem in the Pacific, simply put a mechanic couldn't take spare parts off one plane to fix another, they had to wait for spare parts.
I was simply pointing the historical aspects as being a little off. Here we point Ki-61s are historically "added" to the scenario, but were flying planes that didnt see service until later in the war, I don't even recall one 67 over Wewak or Lae for that matter.
I know there is balancing to go along with the FSO and such, I was just being pesky over fact I hate it being misrepresented so badly.
/shutters at thought of Bf110 for Ki-45s
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Ahh Fire in the Sky... Great book I got it back in the early 2000s huge damn thing. Now you're talking Butcher, you're not just throwing up things like The Axis were supposed to win Frame II. No they were not. Victory was intended for those who grabbed it. I am about to be late for work and have to go. If you want later we can go over things like...
I know there is balancing to go along with the FSO and such, I was just being pesky over fact I hate it being misrepresented so badly.
With the distances of on some of our maps and versions of our aircraft and the complete lack of certain aircraft.. It is hard to get a PTO setup without the same old thing each and every time.
I expected more out of the A6M3s in Frame one and I expected more out of the Corsairs in Frame two. Nobody was setup to win either frame it was meant to be won by the side that grabbed victory.
Like I said I'm late for work we can talk later if you'd like. So you don't want to see 110s or Nicks? :lol
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http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,259352.0.html
Throw 'em out now and save the trouble of just having to do it later.
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Bone! I dont drink and post on the BBS, I fly perk planes and crash into mountains - Although Shifty did point out one detail - the Ki-61s were moved into Wewak airfield to reinforce, and the Ki-49 and Betty was the standard bombers, however the Ki-43 was the main stay fighter in the area, Lae and other sat fields throughout the area. I simply pointed out if he's talking historical - then how does the Ki-67 substitute for the Ki-49? Its extremely fast and heavily armed with armor. Betty would of been a more honest trade off if you are talking historical terms.
Another funny number, the Ki-61s were plagued by mechanical problems pointed out in the book "Fire in the skies" where replacement parts were not simple to come by, a mechanic couldn't simply go to a destroyed plane at the end of the runway and get spare parts, if he did this he was destroying his emperors personal aircraft and a big NO NO. Not like american, for example VT-8 once ripped apart a bunch of aircrafts to patch together one TBM on Guadalcanal just to do bombing sorties, ironically when replacement planes came in the aircraft crashed on landing few days later.
Japanese had a horrible logistics problem in the Pacific, simply put a mechanic couldn't take spare parts off one plane to fix another, they had to wait for spare parts.
I was simply pointing the historical aspects as being a little off. Here we point Ki-61s are historically "added" to the scenario, but were flying planes that didnt see service until later in the war, I don't even recall one 67 over Wewak or Lae for that matter.
I know there is balancing to go along with the FSO and such, I was just being pesky over fact I hate it being misrepresented so badly.
/shutters at thought of Bf110 for Ki-45s
You can point them out all day. There will always be historical inaccuracies. If you don't want them, make a time machine and go live in world war two.
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Spikes words cant describe how stupid that made you look. :bhead
A "Time Machine"? You can do better. :)
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So I read this:
I wont resort to talking smack about you or the group you come from.
Then this:
Spikes words cant describe how stupid that made you look. :bhead
Oh the irony.
How do I look stupid anyway? What about my post doesn't make sense that labels me stupid? If it were to be 100% completely accurate, you would have to be living it.
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From FSO Rules http://www.ahevents.org/fso-rules.html (http://www.ahevents.org/fso-rules.html)
"1. This is a squad based event
- The purpose of the Friday Squad Operations is to provide players with an environment of fair play as seen in a historical light. This may include strategies, tactics, and logistics that were used during World War II. It may also include adjustments to promote healthy entertainment for FSO.
..."
(emphasis added)
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Spikes dont be so delicate,If you cant see it then its not worth bringing to you're attention.
I would rather point an laugh. :D
Oh the irony. :aok
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How do I look stupid anyway? What about my post doesn't make sense that labels me stupid? If it were to be 100% completely accurate, you would have to be living it.
Nothing the two people whom he has called unintelligent in this thread have said anything to make themselves seem so.
I guess his thought is if he says it other people will believe it.
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Your is possessive.
You're is a contraction for you are.
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For those new to Special Events out there. Let me say this:
There are 2 things that go into an event; Historical accuracy and play-ability (fun factor). When one supersedes the other stuff gets bad. Frame 1 for example was very accurate yet the play-ability was not great. The best event setups have enough accuracy to pass and the fun factor is through the roof. Battle over Germany, Crimea FSO, Sicilian Stranglehold FSO, etc. all had some inaccuracies but they were in place so that one side would not overwhelm the other. Unfortunately in Pacific events accuracy is tough. We do not have all the Japanese planes we need. However, even if we did it would not be fun due to the overpowered Allied planes relative to the Japanese planes. Our designers do a great job with Pacific events. I have seen some bad ones and this one is not that bad.
In conclusion, Pacific events will NEVER be very accurate due to the planes we have and the fun factor. If an event becomes too historically accurate (especially Pacific) the play-ability is lost as is the fun. It is a give and take with designs. Most people do not understand this and I did not for a long time. Hopefully one day all of the Special Event green guys will understand as well.
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Spikes words cant describe how stupid that made you look. :bhead
A "Time Machine"? You can do better. :)
'Spikes's words can't describe how stupid that made him look.' OR 'Spikes, words can't describe how stupid that made you look.' ????
I'm having a hard time comprehending.
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Spikes dont be so delicate,If you cant see it then its not worth bringing to you're attention.
I would rather point an laugh. :D
Oh the irony. :aok
I'm not an FSO CM, however some of the things I've seen in this thread may leave a bad taste in others' mouths. I personally don't care but judging by some posts in this thread by certain people, some actually do. Do as you wish.
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We simply need more Japanese planes :noid
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Doc you are wrong about Spikes comment. He's right in that you guys are selectively picking history to make your argument. The problem is you are arguing from the point of view of how the plane set is impacting your fun and not looking at it from the overall design and playability for all. The PTO plane set for the japanese is limited and beyond that to make it playable for both sides adjustments have to be made.
Keep in mind the side co decisions come into play as well so squads may not always be in the right spot to make the interception.
In the end the basic premise of your complaint is flawed.
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I would also like to point out how stupid you made yourself look with that post Shifty.
Damn Bone that is hilarious. Every time you open your mouth you make yourself look like the dumb bellybutton that you are. :rolleyes:
You also said.. Another thing I honestly would believe Butcher over you any day of the week and without a Doubt I guarantee he knows more about WW2 History than you.
You do not know Shifty or anything about what he knows about WWII. Yet you guarantee things you have no way of knowing. Again you make yourself look stupid. Keep it up you are hilarious and pathetic at the same time, but I am enjoying the show. :lol
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Damn Bone that is hilarious. Every time you open your mouth you make yourself look like the dumb bellybutton that you are. :rolleyes:
You also said.. Another thing I honestly would believe Butcher over you any day of the week and without a Doubt I guarantee he knows more about WW2 History than you.
I know for fact I don't know everything on WW2, but one thing I thrive is historical accuracy and sourced information, especially when posting in the wishlist forum I consider it taboo to spew garbage rather then facts.
I ranted on about FSO and had no business about it, I do apologize for my stupidity comments - I am passionate about keeping the historical side of WW2 shown, as many MANY players will never know the history side of this game.
Do I want Historical accuracy? of course - I do know this is a game and nothing more.
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Damn Bone that is hilarious. Every time you open your mouth you make yourself look like the dumb bellybutton that you are. :rolleyes:
You also said.. Another thing I honestly would believe Butcher over you any day of the week and without a Doubt I guarantee he knows more about WW2 History than you.
You do not know Shifty or anything about what he knows about WWII. Yet you guarantee things you have no way of knowing. Again you make yourself look stupid. Keep it up you are hilarious and pathetic at the same time, but I am enjoying the show. :lol
lolz
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I know for fact I don't know everything on WW2, but one thing I thrive is historical accuracy and sourced information, especially when posting in the wishlist forum I consider it taboo to spew garbage rather then facts.
I ranted on about FSO and had no business about it, I do apologize for my stupidity comments - I am passionate about keeping the historical side of WW2 shown, as many MANY players will never know the history side of this game.
Do I want Historical accuracy? of course - I do know this is a game and nothing more.
I think people know more than you give them credit for. I mean I would even venture to say that the majority know at least enough to get around and are interested to know more. Why else would they be here?
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I know for fact I don't know everything on WW2, but one thing I thrive is historical accuracy and sourced information, especially when posting in the wishlist forum I consider it taboo to spew garbage rather then facts.
I ranted on about FSO and had no business about it, I do apologize for my stupidity comments - I am passionate about keeping the historical side of WW2 shown, as many MANY players will never know the history side of this game.
Do I want Historical accuracy? of course - I do know this is a game and nothing more.
Historical accuracy is very important. But when the play-ability is lost due to accuracy there is a big problem. Unfortunately that is the case. Ketsu Go is a FANTASTIC example of accuracy killing an event. Absolute worst event I have ever participated in. Why? Wasn't feasible. Accuracy took over and it became late 45 Pacific. Something that is not fun for anyone.
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Historical accuracy is very important. But when the play-ability is lost due to accuracy there is a big problem. Unfortunately that is the case. Ketsu Go is a FANTASTIC example of accuracy killing an event. Absolute worst event I have ever participated in. Why? Wasn't feasible. Accuracy took over and it became late 45 Pacific. Something that is not fun for anyone.
Which side in Ketsu GO? as an allied player I simply got massacred 3 times in a row, one time had to escort B-29s with Hellcats, another frame we ran into little less then 50 for 6 of us on a fighter sweep.
Not sure if the numbers were way out of balanced, but I do remember Allies were getting massacred (from what I remember anyhow).
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I know for fact I don't know everything on WW2, but one thing I thrive is historical accuracy and sourced information, especially when posting in the wishlist forum I consider it taboo to spew garbage rather then facts.
I ranted on about FSO and had no business about it, I do apologize for my stupidity comments - I am passionate about keeping the historical side of WW2 shown, as many MANY players will never know the history side of this game.
Do I want Historical accuracy? of course - I do know this is a game and nothing more.
:salute
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still wonder why we cant have the FM2. I know it served during this time period in great numbers.
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still wonder why we cant have the FM2. I know it served during this time period in great numbers.
it was a late war fighter, I believe it started coming around mid 43, same time Hellcat did - it was really for escort and light carriers.
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How is 43 late war? and if its a late war aircraft how did it get in the midwar arena and oh why do the Axis get to have Kis that came out in 43?
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How is 43 late war? and if its a late war aircraft how did it get in the midwar arena and oh why do the Axis get to have Kis that came out in 43?
Ki-61 version we had was actually late war, Ki-61 had a few versions, one had 4x 12.7mms other I think pair of machine guns and 12.7s
I don't think we have any FSO scenarios that date mid 43-44 era, Ki-61 is represented here, just not the right version.
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:lol You guys take it anyway you want.
Just know this we are not here to argue about the event only to have fun flying it.
Not everyone is out to argue with you over these events so when you come at me with it Just know you will be ignored to the full extent.
:aok
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still wonder why we cant have the FM2. I know it served during this time period in great numbers.
The FM-2 started service in October 1944
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I know for fact I don't know everything on WW2, but one thing I thrive is historical accuracy and sourced information, especially when posting in the wishlist forum I consider it taboo to spew garbage rather then facts.
I ranted on about FSO and had no business about it, I do apologize for my stupidity comments - I am passionate about keeping the historical side of WW2 shown, as many MANY players will never know the history side of this game.
Do I want Historical accuracy? of course - I do know this is a game and nothing more.
I don't claim to know everything either that's why I ask my wife leave me alone for the 2-3 weekends I'm writing a setup and the 3 weeks it runs. Because I have to spend so much time in books and on websites researching. There were Allied planes I wanted in this setup but just could not justify in the interest of balance and fun for both sides.
The F4Fs were gone in the Solomons by September 1943 and there were three USN F6F squadrons operating off land bases in their place. However I couldn't justify adding the later model F6F-5. I was asked a P-47 fan why there were no Jugs... Yes Neal Kearby's P47 unit was active in New Guinea by Sept 43 as well, however I couldn't justify adding P-47D11s as P-47D2s and keep the setup balanced.
The Ki-67 a sub for the Ki-49? To me that is not a deal breaker. Yes the 67 is superior but the difference in performance does not swing the balance of the setup to one side, in my opinion.Plus it doesn't catch fire if you give it a dirty look like the G4M and it is a Army bomber not a Navy bomber as the G4m is. The Allies have he A-20G and Boston III both which are fast enough to give the Japanese planeset a difficult time intercepting. To me that is a fair trade off. I really thought if I caught grief this setup the one thing that would do it would be the addition of the Aussie Spitfires. I assumed it would be Spit IXs or Spit VIIIs only to learn through research it would be Spit Vs and contained in a very small area.
The repositioning of Ki-61s.. The IJAAF's participation in this theater historically went from next to nothing to a heavy concentration and then it wained again. I'm trying to represent that with the second frame addition of ki-61s active in the Solomons area in Frame 2 and then gone again by Frame -3. Because of the T-60 time limit for strikes I cannot keep the Ki-61 Rabaul only they had to be allowed to operate from the islands in the South. In fact the IJN bases Southeast of Rabaul on the game map have to act as my Rabaul for this setup. The USMC bases Southeast of them have to act as my Henderson Field, just as the USAAF bases midway up New Guinea have to serve as my Port Morsby for this setup. I only have so much time to get everyone in the fight. The one historical base that was convenient for this setup on the map was Lae.
On top of all this I had to deny a Navy oriented squad the chance to fly Allied this setup to make the numbers work. G3-MF requested Allied and got assigned Axis. They were disappointed but have handled it with class and we haven't heard one complaint out of them.
Like you Butcher I would love to see more Japanese planes in the planeset. Ki-43s Ki-45s D4Ys B6Ns and Ki44s are needed very badly just to name a few. It is no fun having to use A6Ms for Ki-43s. That's like giving a kid who wants a pet rabbit a guinea pig instead. This was the first setup I know of other than the Rangoon Scenario where the A6M3 was used. Plus it is the first it has been used against against mid war USAAF and USMC. Like I said earlier I expected a little more success out of them than they have had thus far.
Is the setup perfect? No way. Have I made some mistakes? You bet I have. However I will never do a setup where I expect one side to win a certain frame or the entire setup itself. I love WWII aviation history I have since I was a boy and that was a loooong time ago. I try and design these things to be historically accurate as possible yet as fun as possible for both sides. Every Admin guy does Bino Warloc Nefarious and even CAP is working hard to make his first setup fun. This thread has really gotten to the point where it is counter productive. It is doubtful anybody wants to see a squad or even a single pilot leave the FSO.
In AH II there's nothing better than a good FSO night and there's nothing worse than a bad one. We're all going to get our share of both it doesn't matter who you are. Every squad that flys on Friday nights is what makes it special. Its not the CM the Admin guy the setup or the plane. It's the squads that come together fly together and fight together. All the squads Butcher never hesitate to PM myself or any other Admin guy with an aircraft question or observation you have. Yes it's very possible we could over look something. Or at the very least give you an answer as to why there is an aircraft present or kept out of a setup. If you teach us something you're only doing us a favor. ;)
:salute
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:lol You guys take it anyway you want.
Just know this we are not here to argue about the event only to have fun flying it.
Not everyone is out to argue with you over these events so when you come at me with it Just know you will be ignored to the full extent.
:aok
Yea cuz that is exactly what every Top Gun member's post in this thread has summarized. I have a funny feeling you will reply, thus making "ignored to the full extent" invalid.
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Understand that the FSO guys or any of the designers always throw out their idea to lots of folks before it ever goes 'public'. The CM team as a whole gets a look at the designs to offer suggestions, history stuff or whatever. And there a lot of very knowledgeable history folks in that crew. And make no mistake. Shifty knows his stuff.
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Like you Butcher I would love to see more Japanese planes in the planeset. Ki-43s Ki-45s D4Ys B6Ns and Ki44s are needed very badly just to name a few. It is no fun having to use A6Ms for Ki-43s. That's like giving a kid who wants a pet rabbit a guinea pig instead. This was the first setup I know of other than the Rangoon Scenario where the A6M3 was used. Plus it is the first it has been used against against mid war USAAF and USMC. Like I said earlier I expected a little more success out of them than they have had thus far.
:salute
You mean possum because you cant afford a puppy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4)
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You mean possum because you cant afford a puppy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4)
Exactly. :lol
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You mean possum because you cant afford a puppy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo10WRKsLJ4)
Trying.....hard.....not.....t o......correct.....him.....
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You mean possum because you cant afford a puppy?
No-no-no-no, there are two "O"s in opossum. :devil
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The FM-2 started service in October 1944
The Fm2 (martlet mk4) started service in late 1942 low numbers, early 1943 in mass in both the euro and pacific theaters. So use something diff than wiki for your fact finding.
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=89
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The Fm2 (martlet mk4) started service in late 1942 low numbers, early 1943 in mass in both the euro and pacific theaters. So use something diff than wiki for your fact finding.
Actually the first FM-2s began rolling off the assy line in Sept 1943. They didn't reach squadrons until early 1944. The first victory by an FM-2 was on March 20th 1944 when an FM-2 flown by LT(jg)Dinneen of VC-63 shot down a Ki-61 off New Ireland. This is per Osprey's Wildcat Aces of WWII.
:salute
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read the above info please :salute
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I just did.
You may be confused with the earlier FM-1 model even your own link states that the FM-2 didnt start getting produced until late 1943.
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The Fm2 (martlet mk4) started service in late 1942 low numbers, early 1943 in mass in both the euro and pacific theaters. So use something diff than wiki for your fact finding.
Started service is one thing, finding combat is another - the FM-2 was a carrier replacement fighter for the F4F for escort carriers/light carriers.
A plane could be in production and started service doesn't mean it was in combat yet.
Actually the FM-2 was ready for combat September 1943, give or take a few months. Not sure which squadrons got it first, i'd have to go back and see if it was deployed on land or carriers before 9/43.
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Here's the quote from your link Surfinn.
Like I said I think you may be confusing the FM-1 with the FM-2. The way it is written is very confusing.
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc42/Johnvan52/FM.png?t=1342573803)
Hey it would be great to use that bird in a setup hopefully we'll get a chance soon. :aok
Also Surfinn the Martlet Mk IV is an F4F-4. The Martlet Mk-VI is the FM2. I know for a fact the way the British assign model names and numbers to American aircraft is confusing.
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Here's the quote from your link Surfinn.
Like I said I think you may be confusing the FM-1 with the FM-2. The way it is written is very confusing.
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc42/Johnvan52/FM.png?t=1342573803)
Hey it would be great to use that bird in a setup hopefully we'll get a chance soon. :aok
What sucks is the only Scenario I know the FM-2 is allowed is the late war where it gets brutally raped against N1k and Ki-84s.
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What sucks is the only Scenario I know the FM-2 is allowed is the late war where it gets brutally raped against N1k and Ki-84s.
There's always Leyte Gulf.
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Yes was a mis type on my part the martlet markV is what i was referring to and it was put out earlyer than the Gm FM2 designated ac however there is no difference between the two other than the US gave it to others first to try out;) lol Oh and the statement that you quoted made me look more than once before I posted this. But as you are using the KI61 to represent the KI43 then what is the problem with the Martlet V being represented by the FM2?
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Yes was a mis type on my part the martlet markV is what i was referring to and it was put out earlyer than the Gm FM2 designated ac however there is no difference between the two other than the US gave it to others first to try out;) lol Oh and the statement that you quoted made me look more than once before I posted this. But as you are using the KI61 to represent the KI43 then what is the problem with the Martlet V being represented by the FM2?
Its a balancing issue as it was said earlier in the thread, Japan doesn't have the "aircraft" in game to represent the time frame effectively. You can't add the Ki-84 and n1k so what does that leave for Japanese to have?
Ki-61s were available in this time period, however it was a much earlier version, Ki-61a for example - since AH doesn't have a complete set for the Ki-61 they have to go with the C model with 20mm otherwise it wouldn't be added.
No Ki-43 so the A6m3 sits in its place for now.
FM2 was not in service yet for this FSO scenario time frame, Corsairs were in combat in february 43, as well as SpitV's in mid 43, same for 38G's - its an accurate lineup except for maybe a missing squadron of P-47D11s.
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Yes was a mis type on my part the martlet markV is what i was referring to and it was put out earlyer than the Gm FM2 designated ac however there is no difference between the two other than the US gave it to others first to try out;) lol Oh and the statement that you quoted made me look more than once before I posted this. But as you are using the KI61 to represent the KI43 then what is the problem with the Martlet V being represented by the FM2?
I'm not using the Ki-61 to represent the Ki-43. I'm using the Ki-61 I-TEI to represent the earlier KI-61- I. I'm using the A6Ms to represent Ki-43s.
The Martlet V is not an FM2 either. The Martlet VI is an FM-2. Find a picture of the Martlet V and find a picture of a Martlet VI. See the difference? Martlet VIs (FM2s) did not enter Service with the Fleet Air Arm until August 1944. I don't use FM-2s to represent F4Fs because I have F4Fs. If I had Ki-61-Is I wouldn't use Ki-61-I-TEIs
for a sub. If I had Ki-43s I wouldn't use A6Ms for a sub.
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Here, let's sum this thread up now.
(http://www.dan-dare.org/dan%20simpsons/ItchyAndScratchyAni2.gif)
:D
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Here, let's sum this thread up now.
(http://www.dan-dare.org/dan%20simpsons/ItchyAndScratchyAni2.gif)
:D
now we can all have a beer (or grape juice for Iceman/Failnoob) and sit back and have some fun
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Just turn off the icons and make em fly at night. All previous woes will soon be forgotten. :D
:cheers: To the players and CM's who continue to make FSO the best of AH.
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I just want to say that with what we have to work with Shifty has done a damn fine job with this setup and I thank him for it. Myself and others wait all year for a couple of shots at flying Japanese fighters, while spending most of the rest of the year in Europe.
If we had the planes and could make it without the subs then this wouldn't be an issue. Planes are badly need for the Japanese, please remember this if we ever get another vote.
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You know I started this thread a while back about a AXIS AAR from Frame 01. :headscratch: Talk about a kidnapping.......
Let me say this:
WHAT SHIFTY SAID!!!! X 2
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I raise my beer to guys like shifty and kurt without fso and scenarios i would of left the game long ago, i just don't have the passion to play in the ma anymore i lost interest.
there are plenty of other names like killrdan i can't name them all you guys are the heart of this game. all i can say is kudos and thanks.
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Thanks guys I'm really just a dork... Like all the rest of you dorks. :P
:salute
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fso and scenarios is the real stuff, MA is just frills.