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The current typical ground color is much too dark when compared to the sky. At "high noon" in the Midwestern USA, the perceived brightness of grass is close to the that of the sky. Not so in AH; here is a screen shot from Trinity TT at "high noon" (the canyons are even worse, and when the "sun" is low in the "sky", worse yet). In addition to being unrealitic-looking, it is eyestrain city when you are GVing. Perhaps this fix could be implemented by lightening terrain tile colors?
(BTW, I realize that monitors allow a certain degree of contrast adjustment. The problem with that work-around is that it only goes so far, and it reduces the contrast between the different ground terrain features as well, making everything look unrealistically flat and making it hard to see things on the ground. To clarify, this request refers to contrast between the sky overall and the ground overall).
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/air_ground_contrast.jpg)
MH
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That is not what it looks like to me, gamma maybe?
HiTech
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Hey, hitech, I've always wondered......
would it be possible to have a more real-feeling sun/lighting?
I mean, it looks fairly accurate as far as lighting level goes for the most part, and depending on where you are, the color isn't too far off.
But it just doesn't FEEL like you're out there in the sun. It just looks like you're in a slightly better-lit room with scenery painted on the walls.
I guess I'm having trouble verbalizing what I'm thinking. To me, its akin to the difference between the new cocpit modeling on, say, the A6M's, P-40's and what not, compared to the older modeling for the Typhoon, 190, and such.
The newer models just feel more substancial, even when you're looking at them on a crappy low-resolution monitor.
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TDeacon, try adjusting your monitor properly. My game looks nothing like your washed-out screenshot. There are many websites out there that walk you through the process, and short of professional hardware, they do a good job at getting you calibrated.
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That is not what it looks like to me, gamma maybe?
HiTech
No, it's not gamma. I even fool around with the separate monitor brightness/contrast controls to lessen the contrast between sky and ground, and this can make sky and ground have similar brightnesses. But then as I said, that makes the ground portion of the terrain look "flat", and stuff (like enemy GVs) tend to be hard to see.
BTW, you have screen shots on the Home Page with have similar excessive sky/ground contrast, and others which look more normal. Here's one of the former:
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/AH_homepage_screenshot.jpg)
MH
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TDeacon, try adjusting your monitor properly. My game looks nothing like your washed-out screenshot. There are many websites out there that walk you through the process, and short of professional hardware, they do a good job at getting you calibrated.
Believe me, I know how to adjust my monitors...
BTW, this post has nothing to do with an image being "washed out". It has to do with the lightness/brightness of the blue sky, ***in comparison with*** the darkness of the ground. The OP image was processed in Photoshop for overall brightness, based on my guess as to what would make the result visible to the average Forum viewer, so the overall brightness/darkness ***of the entire screen shot*** will vary, depending on their monitors.
MH
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Believe me, I know how to adjust my monitors...
BTW, this post has nothing to do with an image being "washed out". It has to do with the lightness/brightness of the blue sky, ***in comparison with*** the darkness of the ground. The OP image was processed in Photoshop for overall brightness, based on my guess as to what would make the result visible to the average Forum viewer, so the overall brightness/darkness ***of the entire screen shot*** will vary, depending on their monitors.
MH
Is the original image you posted, what you want AH to look like?
HiTech
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Can I add a really close related wish to this? can we have an option on graphic details that sets the fade distance of the ground clutter?
Like the slide bars you have for object detal and such...
This way it would be optional so it wouldn't kill one's computer if he set to least.
it would make the videos look better when on full distance :noid
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Is the original image you posted, what you want AH to look like?
HiTech
Thanks, HiTech; I will post something. Unfortunately, this may be delayed a bit, as my surge protector and PC apparently was zapped sometime last night, so my screen now looks like this. (Or maybe God doesn't like GVs...). Using Photoshop under these conditions is difficult, as I can barely see what I am doing.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/zapped_screen.jpg)
:(
MH
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Thanks, HiTech; I will post something. Unfortunately, this may be delayed a bit, as my surge protector and PC apparently was zapped sometime last night, so my screen now looks like this. (Or maybe God doesn't like GVs...). Using Photoshop under these conditions is difficult, as I can barely see what I am doing.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/zapped_screen.jpg)
:(
MH
Ohh Crap I thought surge protectors were suppose to stop that :confused:
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Ohh Crap I thought surge protectors were suppose to stop that :confused:
They are. However, the components can be damaged by surges, and depending on the design, this might not be apparent to the user. Also even if you have a new good quality device, again depending on the design, there are limits as to how much energy the components can absorb, and how quickly they can respond to a quick-rising waveform.
I infer the surge theory from the fact that my Tripp Lite 15-year old unit has a red on/off rocker switch which is now flickering, although the "protection" and "line ok" green LEDs are still on. (It's mate on the older PC is still solid red). An alternate theory is that the graphics card just wore out. Who knows?
MH
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Can I add a really close related wish to this? can we have an option on graphic details that sets the fade distance of the ground clutter?
Like the slide bars you have for object detal and such...
This way it would be optional so it wouldn't kill one's computer if he set to least.
it would make the videos look better when on full distance :noid
This Sir, would make a good wish. It would look real nice if trees and buildings would fade into view, the same way it does when flying towards the cities.
+1
Coogan
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but the trees and barns do!
What I mean is the ground clutter, the beautifull tall grass we have, fade out in a way to short distance! I think it would be nice to have the option (if your pc can handle it) to edit this "fade out" to be further away, according to the position of the slider you put in the options... like a "ground clutter distance"
EDIT: btw sorry for the hijack TDeacon :(
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TDeacon,
I hope that you are able to get that graphics issue resolved. I do however, disagree yet agree on some levels on your statement about contrast. :cool: Since my eyeballs are arguably the worst in the AH community, I agree that there are areas of realism that our 2 dimension screens may capture better, the ground to air ratio is not going to give the majority of us the :aok candy that you are looking for, however........
I sincerely believe that if HTC decided to ramp up the contrast on the vehicles, boats and planes separately from the terrain it WOULD AID :angel: in both realism and situation awareness. Below is an altered screen shot. Please take notice the contrast was increased, and the terrain that I chose was lighter (which may add to your argument). What I now say with some confidence, the skinned object with greater contrast added better shows off the sweet :rock work of those who modeled and skinned them. In addition, they sufficiently standout against a reasonable air / ground background. This addition in contrast for "objects only" would not only increase realistic 3D like images in game, but also adds a better chance of tracking aircraft and vehicles, as more closely related to that of the naked eyeball (with the exception on mine :rolleyes: ).
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/closepport.jpg)
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Naked eye eyeball 1.0 is a master of detecting movements and colours, nothing else.
During my national service , we learned how hard it was to detect a AFV, camouflaged, and sun /shadows increased difficulty even more.
You could almost walk into a well-camouflaged vehicle in a wooden / rough terrain without spotting it.
Spotting plane is easier, but with good camouflage they would be hard to detect over a wood, specially in haze conditions, if you fly higher than them, much like we have in AH, without these icons to be found in MA.
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Heya Save :salute
I agree, that there are great limitations to human vision (especially mine). However, even the creators "probably" agree to some extent that the 2 dimensional model has a greater difficulty, and thus has provided us with icons.
I do not wish to argue, at all, to what degree either form of identification improves on the other. Moreover, this discussion began discussing the contrast between daylight terrain and the skyline. I posed the opinion that greater contrast on the models (aluminum planes especially) gives them a "more realistic" look and feel, as well as make them easier to identify. In just about every modification of a screenshot taken from Aces High, I boost the contrast in order to give this life like characteristic.
Now, TDeacon has discussed his difficulty in locating vehicles in his OP, and attributes that to the "air to ground contrast ratio". Your very valid point and shared expertise, is a vote of confidence for the status quo for vehicle and terrain contrast in game. My layman's (museum / polished objects) point of view tells me that at 500 feet :airplane: my eyeballs have some extra 3D clues, such as sun glare and shadows that are better represented by a higher contrast level on objects.
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Is TDeacon having a contrast problem zoomed or unzoomed?
Is he trying to retain the widest possible FoV from the commander's position while at the same time being able to scan and recognise GV at a distance from the background before going to zoom and limiting his commander's FoV? In his first screen shot, on zoom, does he have the problem with the contrast ratio?
If resolving other tanks from the background at distance is the issue. Wouldn't a typical non photoshop adjusted screen shot of what he sees from his commander position be in order? Since the new GV optics was introduced, I cannot resolve other GV's much of the time from the background unzoomed past 600 yards unless either they are traversing a light colored open feild or I'm on zoom.
It's possible the GV game needs a few more visual control options germain to it's environmental orientation which only comes into force while in manned ack positions and GV on the ground. After all once you see your air con's Icon it's all about getting within smelling distance before you open fire. Not admiring the color of his silk scarf from 1k since most fighters cannot hit anything at that range opposed to GV where 1k is point blank.
Or is this visual contrast low resolution at distance unzoomed by design? Kind of favors long range camping on zoom if it is. He who sees first shoots first. And tank commanders in WW2 didn't carry binoculars for nothing.
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Contrast problem on your end, and it loosk like your graphics card has overheated beyond the point of return (possibley due to a power surge), sorry man.
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had the same problem when my old computer got zapped by a lighting strike it fired the video card but everything else was all right
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I am not sure of what would resolve TDeacon's sighting problems. I guess you are asking the age old question of what came first the chicken or the egg? Is AH a combat sim or a game? Long range camping versus realistic expectations?
Recently, changes have come to effect the range of ground vehicle icons. Some time ago, there were changes to the default settings that allowed clutter cover to be removed and smoke rounds were introduced. My input and certainly Save's post were on the question about what is a more realistic 2 dimensional representation.
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Chilli,
I thought if one turned on all the bump mapping and pushed the environment slider full left everyones fighters would resolve in the kind of detail you adjusted with photoshop just a tad less shiney.
Tested that just now offline with a D40 in default silver skin. It's beuootiful and my sitting still frame rate on the runway is 23. But, it loooks COOOOOLLLLLL. resolves great from F3 mode against the hill behind it.
So maybe the OP needs a newer bigger Hulkier PC.
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Guys,
Pending my reply to HiTech, I just want to point out to you guys that I perceive this as primarily an eyestrain issue, and it has nothing to do with damaged hardware. On any hardware available to me (at least 3 separate systems with both CRT and LCD displays), the ground is too dark relative to the sky, from a comfort perspective. I am requesting either a global adjustment, or an option to adjust this sky/ground contrast on individual machines.
This sky/ground contrast issue is either due to terrain tile color choices, or due to the lighting system used in AH. The top image in my OP is *best* case; as I said it gets worse when the "sun" isn't at the Zenith.
I suggest that you read my OP, and *not* the posts of fellow players who in some cases have misinterpreted the OP. I know reading the entire thread is more work, but...
MH
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HiTech,
Here's an example of the type of adjustment I was trying to describe. Note the difference between the original sky/ground contrast and that on the right, where the sky (sky only; not the ground) has been darkened to bring it closer in tone to the ground. I suppose the same effect couild be achieved by having the adjustment apply only to the ground and increasing gamma.
The net effect for the player is to reduce eyestrain. In my case, I think it's due to my eyes adjusting to scan the ground when GVing, and then being blasted with the much brighter sky. When one is playing the game for hours on end, the effect can be painful. I am not sure how you would implement this change, but as mentioned above, maybe the AH client could adjust the lightness/darkness of the terrain tiles, and then the player could adjust overall gamma to get degree of light appropriate to the room they are playing in.
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/air_ground_contrast_adjusted.jpg)
MH
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I have my desktop gamma set to 2.0 while using an aireal photo taken at 12 noon in SoCal on a bright cloudless day looking down at a flying 262 replica over a resivoir for color control as my desktop background. The ground is not a hazy clutter and there is very good sahrp color contrast. Both sides of TDeacons picture look like there is a very high amount of particulate matter and humidity in the air at ground level.
I achive both of those effects via in game gamma. When I want an incredable deep blue sky with bodacious green folage with game 12 noon seeming like real world July 3-4 pm I run the in game gamma about 1.2-1.4. When I want 12 noon to look like the sun is lighting the world from 90 degrees above at full SUN lumens the same as a cloudless day over the SF Bay at 12 noon, I set gamma to 1.9-2.0.
At 1.4 gamma in game I get great contrast between objects along with colors. But, the part of my animal brain thats been looking at 12 noon for 56 years rejects the overall luminocity as 12 noon anywhere on planet earth other than during a solar eclips or 10 miles down wind of a forest fire. It's more like late afternoon or 10:30 am during the summer in the USA.
If I bump it up to 1.9-2.0 it's like 12noon in San Antonio in July with all of the haze reflecting hot and white killing any contrast on far objects past 600 yards or looking down at a fleeing con against the fuzzy ground clutter. But, my brain says 12 noon luminosity in the real world other wise on a very himid and high air polution day during summer. Why can't we get crystal clear winter days at 12 noon after a storm when the sky is near cloudless?
I think the scale by which 12 noon's universal luminosity is being benchmarked at is low. 12 noon straight down in my cockpit sitting on the runway should be popping all of the pixles touched by the sun's rays with vibrant colors well contrasted out to 1000yds. For the most part 12 noon looks like the AH world sun is running on 2\3 of our real world sun at noon if we want beautiful and nicely contrasted colors. We can have great colors or good brightness and lots of washout.
Raising gamma makes it brighter while killing background contrast, dulling the colors and exponentialy increasing smog and humidity haze on everything. If it's possible one would logicly ask that the formula calculating particulate and moisture density in the air be dialed way down to allow a substantial increase in luminosity while keeping vibrant colors and sharp contrast inside of 5 miles.
A simple test offline is to set gamma at 12 noon to where the brightness looks like real high noon to your brain with the haze and lower contrast colors. Then change the time to 01:00 and see that the sky is dark but everything else has it's own luminosity. Then change the gamma until night looks like night with very littel self luminosity. When you change the time back to 12 noon, the colors are fantastic but, luminosity looks like 4pm to your brain.
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The current typical ground color is much too dark when compared to the sky. At "high noon" in the Midwestern USA, the perceived brightness of grass is close to the that of the sky. Not so in AH; here is a screen shot from Trinity TT at "high noon" (the canyons are even worse, and when the "sun" is low in the "sky", worse yet). In addition to being unrealitic-looking, it is eyestrain city when you are GVing. Perhaps this fix could be implemented by lightening terrain tile colors?
(BTW, I realize that monitors allow a certain degree of contrast adjustment. The problem with that work-around is that it only goes so far, and it reduces the contrast between the different ground terrain features as well, making everything look unrealistically flat and making it hard to see things on the ground. To clarify, this request refers to contrast between the sky overall and the ground overall).
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/air_ground_contrast.jpg)
MH
I re-read your OP above, and see now that your difficulty was not in sighting vehicles, but rather that after looking over the terrain the shift in brightness of the sky produces eye strain.
If your wish should be granted I would ask that it be implemented as a level of detail addition. Basically things closer would be lighter. That would reduce the amount of pupil dilation that I assume is causing the discomfort when focusing back and forth between dark and bright areas, because the immediate surroundings (on the ground) would already be close to the brightness of the sky which corresponds to your wish. As a level of detail addition, terrains will maintain their current look and feel from greater distances.
I suppose I went on a tangent about vehicle sighting, but I think the discussion is still relevant due to the excessive gamma brightness and lack of contrast in both of your screenshots, even including your preferred end result. My eyestrain comes from any combat facing a low angle sun, and low level of contrast.
Snip.....
I think the scale by which 12 noon's universal luminosity is being benchmarked at is low. 12 noon straight down in my cockpit sitting on the runway should be popping all of the pixles touched by the sun's rays with vibrant colors well contrasted out to 1000yds. For the most part 12 noon looks like the AH world sun is running on 2\3 of our real world sun at noon if we want beautiful and nicely contrasted colors. We can have great colors or good brightness and lots of washout.
Raising gamma makes it brighter while killing background contrast, dulling the colors and exponentialy increasing smog and humidity haze on everything. If it's possible one would logicly ask that the formula calculating particulate and moisture density in the air be dialed way down to allow a substantial increase in luminosity while keeping vibrant colors and sharp contrast inside of 5 miles.
It seems that Bustr has wonderfully articulated the point where we all agree above.
Chilli,
I thought if one turned on all the bump mapping and pushed the environment slider full left everyones fighters would resolve in the kind of detail you adjusted with photoshop just a tad less shiney. <<< That tiny bit of shininess is actually a small bump in the contrast and IS the missing ingredient IMHO- ChiLLi.
Tested that just now offline with a D40 in default silver skin. It's beuootiful and my sitting still frame rate on the runway is 23. But, it loooks COOOOOLLLLLL. resolves great from F3 mode against the hill behind it.
So maybe the OP needs a newer bigger Hulkier PC. <<< Not necessarily so. If contrast on objects was a global (coad) adjustment it might involve little or no change in resources or framerate. I am hoping that such adjustment would be the quicker fix with objects that already contain "materials" files - ChiLLi.
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go off line, go into arena settings, change the SkyColor[Day] rgb value.
Write down the number that you like and post it.
The change you ask for would amount to nothing but us going into the arena and changing it to the same.
HiTech
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I propose the following to achieve the OP’s desired result, as I see it: What’s needed is to give more control to the individual user than what we currently have. Right now, only the gamma slider control is available. Therefore I believe what’s needed—sorry HTC, I know it means more coding—is a new pane or a new sub-dialog in the Graphics Options pane. Call it “Color Management” or something along those lines, and add the ability to control the following items with separate sliders:
Brightness
Contrast
Gamma (move it from its present position)
Hue
Saturation
Provide a side-by-side Before and After preview, so the user can compare the current or default setting to new settings in real time as changes are made. Add a Save button so these color settings can be saved to the Settings folder, just like we can with stick mappings, and add a Reset or Default button, in case we really screw something up. ;) Most image editing software offer such color correction capabilities, so what I suggest is fairly common in layout and utility. Finally, what I'm proposing should be available for the user's online world view, not just for offline mode.
I, like some others, have terrible eyesight—I’m lucky I can still see anything at all—so I really sympathize with the OP’s issue. However, improving things may not be as easy as simply tweaking the gamma or the sky color. I recently asked for a minor lightening of the sky color in another thread and no one seemed to agree. That’s fair enough; in retrospect, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," or as Heinlein once said, “one man’s theology is another man’s belly laugh.” So, although I understand and sympathize with the OP’s request, I don’t think that simply darkening the tone of the sky may suit everyone else's tastes.
All matter we can see generates albedo and that’s different for different types of matter and materials. That is why some things bounce more light than others; even dirt and bark has some albedo. Everything in the real world has albedo, and thus add to the overall ambient lighting and general luminescence of our real-life environment. There’re other factors too: specularity, transmittance, translucence, reflectance... light bouncing off secondary (and tertiary, etc.) sources and surfaces. Then there's the fact that our eyes are geared to view the real world with these factors in play. That’s why the real world looks so different than what the game can represent. Additionally, these factors are also arguably very subjective, so that dealing with the current game's ability to generate even a few of these factors is tricky, to say the least. I understand that, even if HTC could code such things, given the game’s present technology, it would probably melt practically everyone’s computers dealing with just a few of those factors in real time. There are so many factors; they surely can’t be dealt with easily. However, a few more controls means more options for users. If my suggestion above is too labor-intensive, then at a minimum, at least adding the ability to separately control contrast, beyond just gamma, might be a stop-gap solution.
It may be more work for HTC, but what I proposed will give individuals the ability to control/set the game worldview closer to their personal ideal or needs. Perhaps it's not a perfect solution, but the end result will be a better overall user experience, and that can't be a bad thing.
FWIW, :salute
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I'm all for adding in game "Brightness" and "Contrast" sliders to enhance the "Gamma" slider. Otherwise I have to tab out of the game and adjust that from the desktop controls. Depending on the map I change my desktop gamma between 1.8 and 2.0. then adjust the in game gamma. NDisles offline just never seems to have a realistic bright 12 noon untill I make it look like 1960's San Antonio haze on a humid day in June.
Some of the newer maps have pretty good 12 noon light. I would still like to balance the ingame bright\contrast in support of the gamma without hopping out to the desktop. With so many different eyes looking at so much different hardware and quality of active presentation. Why dosen't the game by this late date 13 years in have the two additional video controls? If they can represent a real danger of CTD to us I understand not having them. Or is this like rear view mirrors and players with superior hardware will benifit exponentialy to those with lesser hardware?
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Hey George can you see that Tiger in those trees about 1k to your left.
Mike quit showing off what $5000.00 will build you for this kiddy game. And no, I'm not on zoom. It just looks like hazy tree pixels from here.
Common George I'm watching his turret turn towards you.
So Mike, if you can see him why don't you shoot him.
HuH, sorry George, I bailed out and walked over to see what you were doing
Mike:..:huh :bhead
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I'm all for adding in game "Brightness" and "Contrast" sliders to enhance the "Gamma" slider. Otherwise I have to tab out of the game and adjust that from the desktop controls. Depending on the map I change my desktop gamma between 1.8 and 2.0. then adjust the in game gamma. NDisles offline just never seems to have a realistic bright 12 noon untill I make it look like 1960's San Antonio haze on a humid day in June.
Some of the newer maps have pretty good 12 noon light. I would still like to balance the ingame bright\contrast in support of the gamma without hopping out to the desktop. With so many different eyes looking at so much different hardware and quality of active presentation. Why dosen't the game by this late date 13 years in have the two additional video controls?
Buster, you make a good point, which I didn't bring up in my previous post because I'd have ended up writing a book length "treatise." Some of the contrast/brightness differences could possibly be inherent to the material colors a given map maker may have chosen for their terrains. I'm no map maker, so I'm not sure, but I think they do have some choices in such things when they're creating their map tiles. Also, the terrain makers themselves may be creating their maps on uncalibrated monitors, so that the colors they saw or chose when creating the map wouldn't necessarily look quite the same for the end-users. In other words they may be looking a color that is "brown" to them, but slightly different to someone else who is using another uncalibrated monitor, or even a monitor that's been color calibrated. As an afterthought, this same phenomena may be applicable to differences in skin materials.
Thus, giving us in-game controls to adjust contrast, brightness, hue and saturation, along with the gamma, would go a long way toward adjusting for such differences between maps (or skins), quickly and without the tedium of trying to jump in and out of the game to test out a setting each time. Personally, I agree that we should have such a capability; particularly as the game's visuals continue to improve.
I don't think it would give anyone unfair advantages though, since these are simply color-related controls, not something based on a particular gfx card's rendering capabilities. Even the most basic cards should ably handle a contrast or brightness change, since they're inherently no more taxing to a system than is changing gamma, I'd guess.
As an addendum to my idea, maybe we could add also the capability to create more than one "Color Management" profile or mode. So that if a map comes up in the rotation that has inferior contrast/brightness values to the previous map, we could switch out the color profile for one more suited for that map, as we can with stick map modes.
:cheers:
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HiTech, oh wise one :aok Color Sky [Dusk] = 00D4B4A2 (I presume this is the default for Baltic terrain). Otherwise we have no actual comparison due to the individual desktop settings (as discussed by Bustr and Wraith). Notice I purposely adjusted time of day to Dusk to show the difficulties in adjustment in gamma alone.* The following Screenshots hopefully will be self explanatory with labels placed below.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/Panzer.jpg)
| Normal Gamma ~1.0* Increased Gamma ~1.4* |
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/PanzerContrast.jpg)
| Normal Gamma After Contrast and Brightness Increased Gamma After Contrast and Brightness |
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<snip>
…add the ability to control the following items with separate sliders:
Brightness
Contrast
Gamma (move it from its present position)
Hue
Saturation
<snip>
Some comments
1) FYI, Wraith’s adjustments quoted above are not what the OP was referring to. Actually, my main game monitor already gives me the first 2 in-game, Gamma is already in-game, and the last 2 have no bearing on my request.
2) Again, what the OP is requesting is an adjustment of ground brightness relative to sky brightness. Not scaled for distance, etc., which in any case would probably be harder to implement. Now if one sets brightness and/or gamma to maximum, the perceived contrast between ground and sky *is* reduced. However, this is not the solution, because making the entire screen too much brighter than ambient room lighting also causes eyestrain. (Remember how they used to tell us not to watch TV in a darkened room)?
3) Keep in mind that the OP has a GV focus. When flying, one isn’t constantly staring at a sky-ground horizon as one is when GVing. For those who don’t GV much, the GV’s horizon is where stuff first appears which is in a position to kill you.
4) I do agree that any change made should be controllable at the AH client end, so each player can pick what they prefer. QUESTION FOR HITECH: Can you give us a linear adjustment of either terrain tile brightness (preferred) or sky brightness (2nd choice)? In the latter case, the user could then as a second step increase the sky back to its original brightness with gamma, bringing the ground brightness up with it and retaining the desired lessened contrast condition.
MH
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Games really starting to look beautiful. I still think the best thing we could do for it right now is to give some more directionality to the lighting.
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Chilli,
If you did not photoshop your last screen captures for us illustrating gamma. The two with the blue against green demarcation are the easiest on the eyes to stare at. The hazed white DMZ between green ground and blue sky use up your eyes with the unrealistic LCD glare. In real life I've never had my eyes glared out by staring long distance at the horizon over oceans or on land unless I was watching the sun. Granted light reflection from water and snow will glare burn your retna but, thats not modeled in this game.
Maybe the width of the artificial haze horizon DMZ line should be much narrower and less bright from gamma adjustments. I try to adjust the contrast of ground to sky demarcation from my desktop using bright, contrast and gamma first. Then the game gamma. Some maps after that, 12noon is fantastic. Others so so. I've calibrated my monitor's RGB to the best it can give me for it's consumer targeted quality.
Just the differences in maps and 12noon along with all of the 40 somethings to geriatrics playing this game would be an argument for a tad bit more user control over what we see. Heck even water, ground and sky control specific sliders to adjust their contrast\heu to each other.....
Marmalaid skys, tangerin ground and hot pink seas....woo, woo......the wife must have slipped something in my tea this morning.. :old:
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Games really starting to look beautiful. I still think the best thing we could do for it right now is to give some more directionality to the lighting. Yes, it can look very beautiful, I agree. What maybe the OP has touched on, is that it could still go a step farther. - Chilli
Some comments
1) FYI, Wraith’s adjustments quoted above are not what the OP was referring to. Actually, my main game monitor already gives me the first 2 in-game, Gamma is already in-game, and the last 2 have no bearing on my request. I totally disagree. It is EXACTLY what is needed to reduce eyestrain. Also, adjustments to your monitor are global and carry over to all other aspects of your desktop (even worse for eyestrain - on that you can believe me brother :cool: - ChiLLi).
2) Again, what the OP is requesting is an adjustment of ground brightness relative to sky brightness. Not scaled for distance, etc., which in any case would probably be harder to implement. Now if one sets brightness and/or gamma to maximum, the perceived contrast between ground and sky *is* reduced. Follow your own wisdom here. Brightness and Gamma are separate entities. Add the third, Contrast, and your journey will have been successful - Chilli However, this is not the solution, because making the entire screen too much brighter than ambient room lighting also causes eyestrain. (Remember how they used to tell us not to watch TV in a darkened room)?
3) Keep in mind that the OP has a GV focus. When flying, one isn’t constantly staring at a sky-ground horizon as one is when GVing. For those who don’t GV much, the GV’s horizon is where stuff first appears which is in a position to kill you. Take a look at the comparisons that I made side by side with your screenshot wish. The word "contrast" is even in your header. I get it, you intend "contrast" to refer to the difference between sky and terrain, but I cannot impress upon you any clearer that your IN-Game solution to brighten the terrain, misses on a number of levels. - ChiLLi
4) I do agree that any change made should be controllable at the AH client end, so each player can pick what they prefer. Definitely agree here. But hereinafter you are again confusing brightness, gamma and contrast. - ChiLLi :bhead QUESTION FOR HITECH: Can you give us a linear adjustment of either terrain tile brightness (preferred) or sky brightness (2nd choice)? In the latter case, the user could then as a second step increase the sky back to its original brightness with gamma, bringing the ground brightness up with it and retaining the desired lessened contrast condition.
MH
Chilli,
If you did not photoshop your last screen captures for us illustrating gamma. The two with the blue against green demarcation are the easiest on the eyes to stare at. {snip} I had to "photoshop" it in order for the results to display on your desktop. That is also why HiTech asked for the actual sky color reference, which I included. Any adjustment made on my desktop will not be displayed on your computer. There will even be a difference in what you are seeing now and what I see. Also, I do agree with the rest of your post that I clipped. -ChiLLi
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From what I can see the new clouds add a great deal of realism and are a huge improvement, they seem disjointed from the earth now, much like a painting things in the distance tend to be less sharp, less detail and with more blue or purple, regardless of their original colour, aces high has a lot of sharp lines on distant hills in green (same colour as the foreground) even in the best screenshots I've seen, the maps also lack a lot of yellow in the landscapes. Here in Ireland which is predominately known for being 'green' you will find plenty of yellows and dark reds or purples everywhere in the landscapes.
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<MH prev post>1) FYI, Wraith’s adjustments quoted above are not what the OP was referring to. Actually, my main game monitor already gives me the first 2 in-game, Gamma is already in-game, and the last 2 have no bearing on my request. <Chilli’s response> I totally disagree. It is EXACTLY what is needed to reduce eyestrain. Also, adjustments to your monitor are global and carry over to all other aspects of your desktop (even worse for eyestrain - on that you can believe me brother - ChiLLi).
Nope. I have always adjusted monitor brightness, contrast, and in-game gamma for AH. These settings are inevitably different than those I use out-of-game. No combination of these 3 adjustments removes the in-game sky/ground contrast issue, without making the ground overall too flat. From the OP: “BTW, I realize that monitors allow a certain degree of contrast adjustment. The problem with that work-around is that it only goes so far, and it reduces the contrast between the different ground terrain features as well, making everything look unrealistically flat and making it hard to see things on the ground.”
<MH prev post>2) Again, what the OP is requesting is an adjustment of ground brightness relative to sky brightness. Not scaled for distance, etc., which in any case would probably be harder to implement. Now if one sets brightness and/or gamma to maximum, the perceived contrast between ground and sky *is* reduced. <Chilli’s response> Follow your own wisdom here. Brightness and Gamma are separate entities. Add the third, Contrast, and your journey will have been successful - Chilli <snip>
For AH, the in-game gamma slider, and the brightness control on the front of my monitor, have very similar net effects, i.e. they both make the screen brighter or darker. While gamma” and “brightness” are as you say distinct concepts, it is what actually happens in game, on the equipment being used, which matters. Again, I already have access to all 3 separate adjustments, and have experimented with them extensively, but the problem remains. If you are happy with what you see, fine, but I am not.
<MH prev post>3) Keep in mind that the OP has a GV focus. When flying, one isn’t constantly staring at a sky-ground horizon as one is when GVing. For those who don’t GV much, the GV’s horizon is where stuff first appears which is in a position to kill you. <Chilli’s response> Take a look at the comparisons that I made side by side with your screenshot wish. The word "contrast" is even in your header. I get it, you intend "contrast" to refer to the difference between sky and terrain, but I cannot impress upon you any clearer that your IN-Game solution to brighten the terrain, misses on a number of levels. - ChiLLi
What exactly is the point of your screen shots? We already know that the 3 adjustments being discussed vary the appearance of the screen. The problem is that in my experience they don’t produce the desired result. To repeat, the desired result is individual player adjustment of the overall “ground” brightness (ground, trees, buildings, etc.) separately from that of the sky. It would be as if you selected the “ground” half of your screen in Photoshop, and brightened it, leaving the sky as-is. Alternatively, you could select the “sky” half of the screen in Photoshop and darken it, leaving the “ground as-is (which is what I did in my previous image). Either way, this means that the relationship between the different ground elements would remain untouched, which is a result which cannot be obtained by any overall adjustment of gamma, brightness, or contrast. If HiTech were able to make the change I am requesting in my previous post, I could obtain the desired result, and so could everyone else. For example, if you already like what you see, you could leave it at the defaults.
<MH prev post>4) I do agree that any change made should be controllable at the AH client end, so each player can pick what they prefer. <Chilli’s response> Definitely agree here. But hereinafter you are again confusing brightness, gamma and contrast. - ChiLLi <snip>
See above. BTW, please use the Forum “quote” feature, as it is harder to respond when someone edits my quotes with colored text.
MH
(P.S.: I switchd to Rooks last weekend, so when I get my system fixed, we can carry this dispute to the MA. ;) )
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I don't know, but it seems to me that every suggestion/wish you post all seem to have one thing in common. They all can be used to make spawn camping easier for you to do. This one you want it so you can change the terrain so that a tank possible stands out better against the background of the terrain.
Either that or your not explaining yourself very well. It seems Chilli has pointed out some solutions to make adjustments on your end to help reduce "eyestrain" :rolleyes: like that is the real reason.
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I find once on zoom all eye strain goes away and that tank way off in the distance stands out very clear and easy to see. And I'm tunnel visioned to one tiny clear point off in the distance. And I have no chance of seeing motion 100 yards to either side of that tank off in the distance or keeping my self from getting shot trying to visualy scan the full feild from my nose to 3k out.
When I'm tryng to pan my head on TrackIR to scan the feild non-zoomed looking for enemy tanks or GV, I end up with my face pushed up a bit closer to the monitor than I ever have to while flying trying to recognise tiney shack pixel shapes from tank pixel shapes past 1.5k.
I almost wonder if GV'ers dont need a small floating box in their screen that they can set to any of the possible zoom values for their tank commander position while in that position. It will be tunnel visioned to whatever point many thousands of yards out while they can scan on normal vision being able to pan with a wide local feild of view. Kind of like looking in the tiny LCD panel of a video recorder zoomed to see a bird at 100 yards feeding it's young while you keep an eye out next to you for that croc trying to hit you 20 feet away.
Some how this all seems like an effort to slowly get back for GV's the old 5 mile zoom that could see through hills and let you count the hairs on the other tank commanders nose.
I get eye strain from the hazy optics in the 17lb gun that happens past 2k on zoom engaging tanks out 3-5k up on slopes.
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I don't know, but it seems to me that every suggestion/wish you post all seem to have one thing in common. They all can be used to make spawn camping easier for you to do. This one you want it so you can change the terrain so that a tank possible stands out better against the background of the terrain.
Either that or your not explaining yourself very well. It seems Chilli has pointed out some solutions to make adjustments on your end to help reduce "eyestrain" :rolleyes: like that is the real reason.
Some people tend to assume the familiar (to them) explanation; it your case, it is "spawn camping". (BTW, did you get a chance to read my previous response to your "spawn camping" suspicions? You should do so; it's here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337618.135.html)
But these people are wrong in this case; from my post just above: "Either way, this means that the relationship between the different ground elements would remain untouched, which is a result which cannot be obtained by any overall adjustment of gamma, brightness, or contrast." You probably have to read the entire paragraph to get the full meaning.
BTW, per my previous post, Chilli (bless him) is also (mostly) wrong. :)
MH
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Bustr, please tell me how lightening the ground half of the screen (relative to the sky) helps a GVer find enemy tanks??? We can already vary the gamma, brightness, and contrast of the *entire* screen. Try it yourself; you will see that the OP's request yields no additional GV sighting advantage. Sometimes the stated reason is actually the real reason. :)
MH
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Some people tend to assume the familiar (to them) explanation; it your case, it is "spawn camping". (BTW, did you get a chance to read my previous response to your "spawn camping" suspicions? You should do so; it's here: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,337618.135.html)
But these people are wrong in this case; from my post just above: "Either way, this means that the relationship between the different ground elements would remain untouched, which is a result which cannot be obtained by any overall adjustment of gamma, brightness, or contrast." You probably have to read the entire paragraph to get the full meaning.
BTW, per my previous post, Chilli (bless him) is also (mostly) wrong. :)
MH
Yes I read your reply and decided to not bother and reply myself as it wouldn't change your mind any. We both made our points and were both sticking to them. In your case, I'm glad you had a great fight in that instance, but answer this, how often does that happen? I'm guessing not to often. I'm sure you run into the occasional battle with a few tanks per side maneuvering, and shooting that lasts 20 minutes or so, but again, I'm sure also that it happens rarely.
In this case your complaining about "eyestrain". This I don't understand. Odds are pretty good that I'll start playing tomorrow between 1 and 2 eastern, and continue through 11 at night with a short break for supper. I do this most Saturdays and don't have an issue with "eyestrain". Over 8 hours of looking for those blasted little dots that turn into planes, or trying to figure out which clumps are bushes and which are tanks, along with watching some movies on a 13 inch tv I have mounted over my computer screen, again with out an issue. So to me I don't see a problem with the terrains causing "eyestrain".
What other options are there for this type of call? Having read these boards for over 10 years I've read an awful lot of posts, and have seen many a question/request worded many a different way. In my experience, this looks like a smoke screen to cover what looks to be another request to make some aspect of the game easier, "it's too hard for me to see the bad guys!".
Our GV's have a VERY limited roll in this game. So, our players have whittled it down to to lowest common denominator, spawn camp as many kills as you can. If there were added structure to the GV game and made grabbing bases MORE worth while with GVs than planes, or depots that could be attacked and destroyed by GVs to hinder/cripple the enemies GVs (much like the city/depot strat system they have for the bases, but geared toward GVs only) You would see something more from GVs. As it is, I will stick with the "familiar explanation" as that is what I see most of the time I play. Until I see mostly battles using tank columns with flanking maneuvers and other tactic that have nothing to do with blasting a tank as in "materializes" out of thin air, the "familiar explanation" is the right one.
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Yes I read your reply and decided to not bother and reply myself as it wouldn't change your mind any. We both made our points and were both sticking to them. In your case, I'm glad you had a great fight in that instance, but answer this, how often does that happen? I'm guessing not to often. I'm sure you run into the occasional battle with a few tanks per side maneuvering, and shooting that lasts 20 minutes or so, but again, I'm sure also that it happens rarely.
In this case your complaining about "eyestrain". This I don't understand. Odds are pretty good that I'll start playing tomorrow between 1 and 2 eastern, and continue through 11 at night with a short break for supper. I do this most Saturdays and don't have an issue with "eyestrain". Over 8 hours of looking for those blasted little dots that turn into planes, or trying to figure out which clumps are bushes and which are tanks, along with watching some movies on a 13 inch tv I have mounted over my computer screen, again with out an issue. So to me I don't see a problem with the terrains causing "eyestrain".
What other options are there for this type of call? Having read these boards for over 10 years I've read an awful lot of posts, and have seen many a question/request worded many a different way. In my experience, this looks like a smoke screen to cover what looks to be another request to make some aspect of the game easier, "it's too hard for me to see the bad guys!".
Our GV's have a VERY limited roll in this game. So, our players have whittled it down to to lowest common denominator, spawn camp as many kills as you can. If there were added structure to the GV game and made grabbing bases MORE worth while with GVs than planes, or depots that could be attacked and destroyed by GVs to hinder/cripple the enemies GVs (much like the city/depot strat system they have for the bases, but geared toward GVs only) You would see something more from GVs. As it is, I will stick with the "familiar explanation" as that is what I see most of the time I play. Until I see mostly battles using tank columns with flanking maneuvers and other tactic that have nothing to do with blasting a tank as in "materializes" out of thin air, the "familiar explanation" is the right one.
Remember that each person’s vision is different. In my case, I’m 61 years old this year, and I make my living sitting in front of a computer all day. After work I browse or play computer games. I had been playing more AH lately (until Sunday night when the 9800XT died), and because of my old PC, I was mostly GVing. All this probably makes me more sensitive to the ground/sky contrast issue. This, and only this, is the motivation for the OP.
MH
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I played with the horizon tinight. Normaly from an 8inch shore battery on zoom ships dissapere into the haze at 20.1k yards. I sink CV at 20k without using those funky modes. I hit tanks out to 8k with the 88 the same way I hit CV with the 8inch using the circle and knowing it's relationship to the size of the object. You just range up to 3 shots and you are on. Tonight I turned off the horizon which gave a nice simple demarcation. It also allowed me to hit and candle a CV at 24.1k yards as a white silloutte at full zoom.
The problem is I had my game gamma at 1.8. While this makes the game look like noon untill just before the sun goes down, it creates horrendous haze past 5k depending on the terrain. But, on zoom at distance I can see things like parts of tanks from the 88 or 17lb standing out in the terrain.
Tonight I adjusted my gamma back to 1.6 which showcases the vivid color pallet of the game like a Walt Disney production along with reminding me why I hate how fast a day cycles into lower light conditions. Only between 11am-2pm unzoomed do tanks stand out past 2k against the lush colors of the environment. The same for chasing a con around at ground level and I don't have to go to 100% zoom to clearly pick him out from the background, and see his vector changes so I can put rounds dead into him and not some bushes that blend with him.
I can see a requirment for some players eyes to have an ability to adjust the heu relationships of water, ground and sky then gamma affecting all three equaly. Also shrinking the width of the horizon demarcation line blur. When I turned off the horizon it was perceptable that I had turned off a mild eye strain akin to reading web pages that are not visualy balanced but, have too much white\white in large areas that you read from.
Now,, to someone not in their 40-60's, I doubt they even care what we are describing.
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To answer your question, "what is the point....." referring to the time I spent making examples of the darkest possible terrain environment ~ 6:00 AH time. I offered a visual reference showing the results that CONTRAST, BRIGHTNESS and GAMMA provide. In the original reply, each adjustment was clearly labeled. So, I ask you, which portion of the split screen EXAMPLES do you feel would offer the most comfortable viewing with less eyestrain? (included your example in the middle as a choice as well).
Other than that, I would ask that HiTech consider that there is more than one opinion on what eases eyestrain for us :old: I could start another thread asking for the sun gamma reduction (by the way I am certain there have been many :t ), or brighter low detail sea color at Dusk and Dawn, or a number of other lighting / viewing requests. Instead, I chose your thread with the best of intentions to help define an area of improvement that a great number of individuals might enjoy.
Tanking however, I have to agree with Fugitive, leaves a lot to be desired for me, most of the time. When I do tank, you probably wouldn't want to be anywhere near me on range vox. It drives me nuts :furious
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/Panzer.jpg)
(http://home.comcast.net/~mark.hinds/misc_online_storage_dir/air_ground_contrast_adjusted.jpg)
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/PanzerContrast.jpg)
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To answer your question, "what is the point....." referring to the time I spent making examples of the darkest possible terrain environment ~ 6:00 AH time. I offered a visual reference showing the results that CONTRAST, BRIGHTNESS and GAMMA provide. In the original reply, each adjustment was clearly labeled. So, I ask you, which portion of the split screen EXAMPLES do you feel would offer the most comfortable viewing with less eyestrain? (included your example in the middle as a choice as well).
Clearly the right-side example on each of the 3 images involves less sky/ground contrast. The problem is that these are Photoshop images intended to illustrate my (and your) respective points, and not necessarily images showing the ideal, or even in my case possible, settings desired.
As stated previously, I was unable to get a satisfactory sky/ground contrast condition on my equipment, even though I was using all 3 adjustments (gamma, brightness, and contrast). Thus the OP request. I would be interested in getting feedback from HiTech as to whether he would consider adding the ability to adjust the entire-as-a-unit-ground-brightness, in a linear manner, at each individual player's AH client program. He may have missed that request, given all the auxilliary discussion we have been engaged in.
So in case he did miss it, here it is again: QUESTION FOR HITECH: Can you give us a linear adjustment of either terrain tile brightness (preferred) or sky brightness (2nd choice)? In the latter case, the user could then as a second step increase the sky back to its original brightness with gamma, bringing the ground brightness up with it and retaining the desired lessened contrast condition.
MH
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Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?
There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.
HiTech
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Each split screen is labeled below the split screen. The bottom image, was taken after adjustment with contrast and brightness. The AH skyCOLOR[dusk] 00D4B4A2 was default for Baltic. The time of both screen images was the same 06:00. The middle image from the former post was Deacon's last image that I included for comparison. It also helps to show the limitation of gamma adjustment alone.
I totally support your decision not to include contrast or brightness. Perhaps there might be some other development in the future that facilitates a wider range of contrast, even if it were included in the video settings menu, and tied directly to the video card / monitor settings.
Besides that the best that I could hope for would be a global increase in objects' material file that corresponds to the luminosity and shiny effects. Much like Deacon likes his terrain lighter, I like for my objects to step out from the screen. The addition of the bump map has gone a great deal in that direction, but in all of my screen shot and films, the addition of contrast produces the most life like images. (Take a look at how much more 3 dimensional the headlamp covers look in the previous comparison post with Deacon's image).
*Also please note that since I have both my monitor and desktop color settings boosted to provide some of the contrast and saturation that I see, your image will most likely show slightly less of what I am describing (if you are using default settings or anything other than identical settings from my HP LCD screen, and GeForce210 video card).
HiTech, oh wise one :aok Color Sky [Dusk] = 00D4B4A2 (I presume this is the default for Baltic terrain). Otherwise we have no actual comparison due to the individual desktop settings (as discussed by Bustr and Wraith). Notice I purposely adjusted time of day to Dusk to show the difficulties in adjustment in gamma alone.* The following Screenshots hopefully will be self explanatory with labels placed below.
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/Panzer.jpg)
| Normal Gamma ~1.0* Increased Gamma ~1.4* |
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff56/2chilli_photos/PanzerContrast.jpg)
| Normal Gamma After Contrast and Brightness Increased Gamma After Contrast and Brightness |
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Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?
There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.
HiTech
I think Chilli is only showing what anyone can do by adjusting their own brightness, contrast, and the in-game gamma settings to achieve a better contrast. The left side showing a normal setting, the right side showing the same view after tweaking his monitors setting.
I think the OPs main problem is running an older system. I have just upgraded and while my older system (4 years old) still played the game with most of the eye candy on, my old eyes had a hard time picking out low flying planes against the terrain. With my new system I run every bit of eye candy and a bit of AA as well and can pick out those same low flyers much easier.
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It's clear and bright over SF Bay outside my living room window. This is my best duplication of the sky blue I see with my eyes. And the best overall average bright I can get on the ndisles map at noon. No photo shopping, simply a conversion from BMP to GIF. This is what I see in the game as of now, and the best I can adjust for my eyes.
My wife majored in art and taught art for some years. She says your sky value is too low in red. Green and blue don't contrast well unless there is a slight purple caused by an increase in the red value. I've also reduced my haze issue by being able to keep the gamma lower at 1.6 rather than 1.8-1.9. The increase in red seems to have a side benifit of upping the overall perception of brightness. The red value for ndisles was 99, I increased it to 107.
SkyColor[Day]: 00FF8B69
NDisles 12:00 noon.
(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/8852/skyk.gif)
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3175/sky2tl.gif)
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<snip>I think the OPs main problem is running an older system. <snip>
Sorry Fugitive, but it's *not* due to an "older system". As I said previously, I have access to several different machines, with both CRT and LCD screens, and one of them is only several years old, running Windows 7. The issue is there on all of them. Remember, however, what constitutes "eyestrain" for one person may not do so for another. The resolution of this all depends on how hard it is for HTC to give us a player-adustable sky *or* a player-adjustable ground brightness setting.
MH
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Chilli I really have no idea what your 6 images are. Not trying to be a pain, but are they all the same times, which ones were adjusted? Would it be to difficult to just put text on the image itself?
There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.
HiTech
HiTech; I posted the OP. Unfortunately, I am currently suffering equipment issues, which are being dealt with. Would you be willing to put this on hold for a couple of weeks, until I can properly support my request graphically (as my temporary graphics card does not permit me to run the game properly), and answer your question about the sky color??? I do respect the opinions of the other posters, but by in large, they are not talking about the same issue as that covered by my OP, and this kind of blurs things.
Thanks in advance,
MH
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I must tell you about those airborne guys, trying to blow our tanks up during night-time on a snowy northern Sweden during a drill in early -80s:
We knew they where coming after us so we moved around within our perimeter quite a lot, giving air recognizance a whole lot harder to find my platoon of 4 tank / 2 tents.
Our light tanks (17 tons IKV91) where dug in by driving the tanks into the 1.5 meter deep snow showing only half of the tank, in the shade of the wood.
We also camouflaged the tank by hitting the high threes light so snow fell down on the already white and green camouflage.
In front of us we had a field, and the road we where supposed to defend with an ambush , about 600 meters away.
We also did some fake positions, piled up snow with branches sticking out horizontally out of the piles of snow, and made lots of small tracks with a tank to make the impression the position was the real thing.
During the night we heard some explosion, and machine gun fire less than 500 away, and then silence. We moved to our tanks, waiting inside for them to come to us.
Well they did not.
The blue-yellow officers ( combat judges ) came to us in the morning with a mile on their faces:
Our airborne (enemy) guys attacked and claimed to have killed a tank position with all tanks in it (!).
Must have been a delight to see these guy attack some piles of snow, and machine-gunning everywhere there :lol
Its me in commanders cupola, during a drill in early -80s in picture below
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3203/5842326719_7e7715ce04_b.jpg)
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TDeacon,
I understand your position. Multiple machines and monitors. Many different visual presentations of the same sky and ground. You have due to your personal issues with your eyes a need for certain settings to reduce eye strain. I did ask earlier for additional sliders to control either (bright) and (contrast) or HEU for water, ground and sky. Some time back I traded my more expensive LG graphics monitor to my wife for her Samsung becasue it has a "Gaming" response setting and showed the game better during action.
Would it have been simpler TDeacon for you to call HTC and argue in person with Hitech what your physical needs are? Taking the high road I will venture your eyes are an issue regardless of the PC you are at. But, so many pages into this you mention the need for additional sliders becasue you play the game from several PC. How then can your audience join your side in asking Hitech for your wish? So then the suggestion that calling Hitech in person would have been a better strategy.
I've never seen Hitech succumb to incramental "nudging" by a player after responding with a definative "NOT". The sliders Hitech refuses to place in the game would probably benifit those with superior systems along the lines of why he won't put in rear view mirrors. Chances are by solving your eye strain issue exactly the way you want, some 13 year old would over night become the long range GV sniper king of the game becasue his parents over indulge him with their credit card when it comes to his tech wishes.
Thus another whine post due to unintended consiqueces.
Hitech's response on this page.
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From Hitech:
There will NOT be a brightness /contrast setting. But as I said before, it is a simple matter to adjust sky colors, but it seems no one has taken the time to set day and dusk settings what they would prefer as the OP asked for a simple brightness change between sky and ground.
HiTech
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Hey Bustr,
I read HiTech's post and decided that it was not directed at TDeacon's request, mainly because the OP request was NOT for contrast or brightness. HiTech just wanted to clarify from TDeacon what "customized" sky color works best for him.
I may have added to the confusion (probably so -- and wasn't my intent to hijack his thread, but it is so very close to my wish). I brought up the discussion that a "deeper" contrast and a "brighter" adjustment to objects (more specifically, aircraft and vehicles) provides less eyestrain and a more realistic appearance.
The in game difference for situation awareness, would improve, but not to any greater advantage than it currently presents. In comparison, consider the differences between someone flying with a mouse, or loosely calibrated joystick and someone flying with the best CH or other benchmark equipment. Then add an exquisite set of rudder pedals and we have to conclude that the playing field is never going to be level.
I cannot come anywhere close to any ideal viewing adjustments use of gamma alone. Based on the "washed out" screenshots that TDeacon posted, HiTech and I can only guess that either it is his preference OR his desktop settings are so much different from ours, we have no clue as to what it is the TDeacon actually sees on his screen.
I have an experiment that I will be conducting, although I am no Lusche, I am hoping that I might be able to post some work around results to help us with visual challenges and eyestrain issues.
I wish to carry that discussion to the Help and Training Forum in this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,338181.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,338181.0.html) Your input will be greatly valued in that thread. Thank you for all of your comments in advance.
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Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.
Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.
HiTech
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Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.
Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.
HiTech
I think I've probably tweaked some of the colors since these posts, but this might be a good starting point:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,324201.0.html (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,324201.0.html)
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Also, I still don't have the sky color that TDeacon would prefer.
Screens shots don't do me much good, because I need to see the number in game.
HiTech
HiTech; please put this issue on hold for a couple of weeks, and I can get you that number.
My main graphics card died the day after I started this thread, and the replacement won't run the game. I am, in parallel, building a complete new PC, and investigating ways to obtain a used equivalent to the 9800XT I was using on my old PC. In a couple of weeks, one or the other of these 2 parallel efforts will allow me to run AH again, and answer your question.
MH